Comments (Page 102)

I got to say I'm among the few that decision didn't bother, but I'll save that for a separate topic.

Whoops. Yeah I didn't like that Vincent Ward did that to Newt and Hicks.

To be fair, killing them wasn't his or Walter Hill's idea. The idea belongs to Vincent Ward, he viewed it as Ripley's journey. He also thought Newt was annoying.

RIP David Giler, thank you for your contribution to the Alien series. Although Alien 3 was neither my favorite or my unfavorite, I did love a lot of the concepts (both unused and used) contributing to the movie as a whole, except for the part where Newt, Hicks, and eventually Ripley were killed.

"I cannot find confirmation of the rumor that they are the original Engineers"

I recall that Ridley Scott (but i cant seem to FIND where or HOW i recalled it) he had claimed those Engineers on Planet 4 are the Original Engineers.   He has also said the Engineers are NOT a Species but a Civilization.

He has also said before that WHY can we assume the Engineers can-not have Different Races/Differences like we Humans can.  So i think there was a LOT we could have Expanded on with the Engineers that we are UNLIKELY to really see NOW as FAR as the Connections and Ancient Agenda.    I think RS does leave Clues... its you can MISS them... but he is so Vague with them so its always OPEN for Interpretation... he can also Change his Mind lol  If you read between the Lines then even comments regarding WHAT it is that David does Next would give some Insight.... i think regarding the LV-223 Engineers i think they are similar to David and so his Story is maybe a Retelling of those LV-223 Engineers and WHY they did what they did.

But in Context to the OT... then YES i think if we are looking at Ancient History we have to ask about the Engineers Origins.... and also i think that YES you can have another Species that are Related to the Xenomorph Aesthetic be Introduced in a WAY that Offers more than the Xenomorphs where Eventually Portrayed as.

This MURAL has ALWAYS really Interested me

"Humanity originated on Earth in a natural way. Then the ancient aliens, anticipating their extinction, captured several people and modified them, thereby creating the Engineers."

Dont be DAFT!!! Joke ;)  you know what this would be a CURVE-BALL.... when i had a Source who had information on Prometheus 2 Circa Autumn 2014 they had Claimed that the Engineers are NOT the Gods, they Claimed that Mankind is like the 4th/5th Generation of our Kind... they also Claimed that Mankind had a BIGGER role in the Xenomorph Creation and also regarding the Human/Engineer Connection there would be a CURVE-BALL

And so "WE CREATED THEM" would be a Big Curve-ball.

I think when we look at our Engineers in Prometheus and the Alien Covenant you did get the Impression (well i do) that those beings are Genetically Engineered versions of the more Human looking inhabitants on Planet 4, they could be a Sub-Created Engineered Superior Species that are Created for Specific Reasons....  like how David is to us or the Replicants... this could lead to Rebellion or Jealously by these LV-223 Engineers and Motivate them to Commit the Horrors they had done.  Ridley Scott had referred to them as Fallen Angels... the Fallen Angels had Rebelled against their Creator and their own Kind, they had been Cast Out, Mutated and become a Species that HATE their Brothers and Gods more Favored Children Mankind.

The above may NOT connect to the OT... but you can take Influence from it.... by having the Origins of the Engineers being a Race that was Enslaved, Created or came to some Agreement with the Starbeast, but they then REBELLED and then STOLE the Starbeast Technology.

Regarding the SPACE GARDENERS... i think if we look at Prometheus it kind of gets away from the OT, but it seems that what we had was Space Gardeners as the MAIN ROLE of the Engineers... but something CHANGED for Certain, something that made some of their Kind Experiment with stuff that Connects to the Xenomorph and LV-223...   ALIEN ENGINEERS held a lot of Clues to this... and to me it seems a SIMILAR kind of PLOT to Starbeast only they had Sucsess.

In other Words some of the Engineers encountered a Ancestor to the Xenomorph and became Fascinated by it, saw Potential with it and Experimented on it... where the Xenomorph was ONE of the Outcomes.

There is a BIG PLOT that could be Covered, that is kind of like the OT but also Connect to LV-223, its something i mentioned before....  which you have to look at the Original Inception of the Engineers to start to PAINT a Picture they was a Race who Engineered themselves to LOOSE the Ability to Procreate, they had been Attempting to Transcend to a Higher Pane of Existence... seemed this maybe Failed and they Got Concerned that Mankind could Grow to Replace them...

So then you ASK... ok WHY the Xenomorph?  I think that Alien Resurrection has the Answer... RIPLEY 8... she has Genetic Memory... In effect Ripley has been Reserected and so something with the Xenomorph has done this... IF the Engineers encountered some Ancient Relation, where they saw this BEAST as the KEY to REINCARNATION that would give GOOD Reason for them to want to be Experimenting with them.

When we go UP to a Higher Level... the Starbeast was a Intelligent Species, but they NEED a Host to Procreate.. but a Curve-ball could be that the Starbeast when they come to the END of their Life-Cycle... they will Egg-Morph a Host to PASS ON their Genetic Memory this will Revert back to a SPORE/EGG where this Species can then REINCARNATE themselves...   You Connect a ANCIENT SPECIES to then the Agenda to WHY would the Engineers be interested... to then we see with Ripley 8 it shows the Potential.... the Xeno-Strain can Act as a FORM of Reincarnation/Immortality.

Sorry if thats Getting to be OFF TOPIC... but i think its something that can Expand/Uplift the Original Topic as YES i think it would be GREAT to Explore some Related Ancient Species to the Xenomorph... something that also touch on what HR Giger had on his Mind and become something a bit LOVECRAFTIAN.

Welcome aboard XenomorphAwakening

I think that YES the Initial Intention for the Xenomorph was something that was Different to how it Evolved too.  With ALIEN we had Ridley Scott at one point trying to OFFER a Ending where Ripley is Dead, but the Xenomorph would MIMIC her Voice to LURE the Next Batch of Victims in.  I think that even though this idea was DROPPED, the DC Versions showed a Agenda/Plan for the Xenomorph rather than just being a Killing Machine.

The Xenomorphs Roots was from the Starbeast Idea by Dan'Obannon and at its Inception then the Spores (that became the Eggs) where PART of the Life-cycle of a Civilized Alien Species, who Constructed Pyramids to USE for their Birthing Rituals which required a Sacrificial Host.   There was NO SIGNS of this Species or Civilization apart from this ANCIENT PYRAMID all that remained was their Spore/Egg Stage that was WAITING for a Host so to speak.

At this Stage of Development the Space Jockey was NOT what we had in ALIEN we had a Separate Ship that was Derelict that had NO CONNECTION to the Starbeast (Xenomorph) they was merely a ALIEN Species who had Stumbled on this World and gone to Investigate the Pyramid and became Infected....

But things Changed during the Process before we had ALIEN which included Walter Hill and David Giler coming in and Changing the Dan O'bannon and Ronald Shusett so that the Pyramid became a Cylinder and the Xenomorph to be a Engineered Weapon Created by Mankind.

Lucky this was Changed... and we then had HR Giger come in to Re-Design the Space Jockey, Ship, Cargo Hold and our Xenomorph  there was a LOT of Mystery regarding the Space Jockey and Connection with the Xenomorph that had been IGNORED until the Prequels.

With the Indication in the Mind of Ridley Scott even prior to the Prequels that we are dealing with a BIO-WEAPON thats likely Engineered/Created.....

But this KIND of idea does-not SIT-WELL with some Fans, who view the Xenomorph as its OWN Species that are Ancient, but then when we look at ALIEN what we see is a Alien Species that adapt the same kind of Life/Survival as HIVE Species on Earth like Bees, Wasps, Ants and Termites... but of course they are MORE Intelligent than Bugs ;)

I think your THEORY is something that some Fans would like to see, it kind of GETS BACK to what the Starbeast was...

I think some Interpret the MURAL as a GOD like being the Engineers Worship (i think they are MISTAKEN but thats for another Time).

"something goes wrong and instead of the supreme intelligence of the original species they end up with the super-predator we are familiar with"

Certainly something along the Lines could work, i have said before that will UPSET some, that maybe the Xenomorph has RAN its Course..... but this does-not mean we can look at its Ancestry and come Across something we can DRAW a Connection to, something Similar but Different and something that is Intelligent, predates the Engineers maybe?   Something maybe the Engineers gained Knowledge and Technology Off or had Stolen/Reverse Engineered from?

And so i think that YES we could introduce a Species that are Aesthetically similar to the Xenomorph to where the Xenomorph was a attempt to Re-Engineer Traits from this STARBEAST if you would.... YES this could work.

I have always said there is a WAY you could GO back to have something that Predates the Xenomorph that is a Reflection of the Original Starbeast and also UPLIFT the Xenomorph via this.

"I don't believe it had anything in particular to do with being disappointed in humans or even that they intended to dump the Black Goo on Earth indiscriminately"

Certainly...... remember sometimes to CREATE then One must First DESTROY.  So i have always Wondered if the Engineers on LV-223 had decided they wanted to EVOLVE other Species using the Xeno-Related Strains in the Black Goo as maybe they FELT that this Species DNA was Perfection instead of their Humanoid DNA... this PLOT works Best if say those Engineers are more in Common with David than those Planet 4 Engineers.

Well i think there is some HISTORY with the Nostromo, with some Sources saying the Ship was a Cruiser prior to being Refitted and Upgraded to become a Faster Towing Ship/Hauler.

I think if there was a TV Series set in the Time-Line say 2106-2116 a Space Exploration Series, you could have the Nostromo appear for a Little while, maybe as a Cameo (we see it being Refitted and pay a Visit to the inside).

I think if you was to Commit a TV Show to the Nostromo you have to Bear in Mind if your having say 5-6 Hours where a your going to Include the Nostromo you have to have some Plot/Story thats Interesting rather than say so WHAT kind of Haulage Job did it do before.

Where it would likely have to be something to do with WHERE they was going or the Haulage that they are Towing... then you introduce a Threat... but that could be anything really, as you said we DONT have to keep going to the Xenomorph or even Similar.

You have to think what kind of Cargo etc would be Potentially Dangerous, or something that someone would WANT and try to Hijack etc.... be is Space Piracy or a Rival Firm trying to STEAL the Haul!

I think if you did a Space Exploration TV Show, Building Better Worlds or whatever.... then seeing the Nostromo as a Easter Egg would be maybe a way to SHOW IT.

I mean you could ADD IT to say the Colonial Marines TV Show idea... where One Episode is dealing with a Space Piracy/Hijack or Rogue A.I on some Large Ship and that during the Marines Mission they had to Damage the Engine Systems... and we then at the END see that the Nostromo is sent out to HAUL the Marooned Ship back to our Solar System etc.

 I dig it too lol.

Oh, I would not have the Nostromo maiden journey encounter any alien life forms ( that would be lame ) It would be about the crew and recreating the Nostromo's interior ( all that cool 70's stuff ) Original soundtrack with the spooky 70's vibe. 

If an Alien tv series has to have a xeno attack in every episode then this series is doomed.

Yes, that's really good stuff.

I have almost the same theory, but with a slight difference.

Humanity originated on Earth in a natural way. Then the ancient aliens, anticipating their extinction, captured several people and modified them, thereby creating the Engineers. Perhaps in order for the Engineers to revive the aliens in the future. Or simply to make the Engineers their heirs.

In the ampule room Charlie Holloway said: "it's just a grave". A grave for alien race.

Then, recalling Ridley Scott's early pre-Promethean comments about the Space Jockey's civil war. SJ=Engieers now, so there is a theory of war between factions of Engineers.

One faction used the legacy of the Aliens to create the new worlds. The are Space Gardeners.

Another faction used the legacy of aliens for their own development. They were arrogant and selfish, and did not tolerate competition (source: early leaks for Prometheus). They are Space Jockeys. They defiled the grave of the aliens, setting their own head statue there, thereby shading the aliens into the background. It is possible that their attitude towards aliens was the same as David's towards humans and Engineers. They did not respect strangers and did not see them as gods, but looked at them as material for experiments:

1) They have perfected themselves (The Last Engineer on LV-223 looks like alien - biomechanoid).

2) They turned the legacy of aliens into bioweapon and ultimately exterminated (?*) the first faction - the Space Gardeners.

3) They also decided to destroy "competitors", including primitive earthlings.

During the last sabotage on LV-223, the Space Jockeys were unable to attack Earth, and their only ship to take off crashed on LV-426.

*There are probably isolated communities of Space Gardeners somewhere else, but they hide.

About the inhabitants of the Planet 4.

Remember the faces of their leaders, scientists and sages, carved into the rock and inside the main building? They look like the head in the ampoule room on LV-223. Plus ship design: docking ship above the city square and U-shaped ships below the surface.

Think of the Gardeners' flying saucer from Prometheus. Separately, this means little, but together it shows that the inhabitants of Planet 4 are also part of the aggressive Space Jockey faction. They are not kind beings. Perhaps they joined the Space Jockeys, or perhaps they were their founders!

I cannot find confirmation of the rumor that they are the original Engineers. But if so, then it is not necessarily literal. The "original" means the founders, the head of the faction of Space Jockey.

From this point of view, David stripped their faction of the leadership and saved the galaxy.

@Xenotaris

Yeah the Present Day setting BUGGED me... i think if we had it in say 2150-2250 Time-Line and we had Explorers go to a World/Moon where they Detected some Ancient Pyramid that resembled some on Earth with Hieroglyphs indicating and then Flash Back showing that the Predators had Visited us in the Past to take us to this PYRAMID on a Far Away World.

such a Plot could have been the same to a Degree as Prometheus but released YEARS prior.. it could have Worked.

Where the AIM was so we are Sacrificed so the Predators can have their Ultimate Hunt... then i think the MOVIE would have worked better and had more Scope for Sequels.

But to ignore that it is a Decent Popcorn Action Horror.

I think that IF it is DONE RIGHT then a AVP Reboot could be something they get more Success with than Stand Alone with ALIEN and PREDATOR   Both those Franchises have Suffered with their Last Movies and are in a Bit of  Pickle to Continue.. (does not mean they are Finished). But ONE more Bad Apple and they could be in the same Situation as the Terminator Franchise.

The AVP Series a lot of us take as Alternative and are Disappointed it DOES-NOT go with the Video Game/Comics Universe...  and so this could be Considered something thats FUN and Popcorn that would be to Disneys liking like the Marvel Series.

And so a Reboot could be something that could WORK?

Shame this Topic has not come up....as...

A Former Xenomorph Civilization as an Explanation for the Engineer Agenda

A Interesting thing to Ponder and Explore.

Nice Catch...  also Love the Banner Image ;)

"ALIEN CHRONICLES 03: First flight of the Nostromo"

I dont mean to come across as Bashing the Idea... it may be a bit of a Coincidence if the Nostromo was Involved in something similar to what it would also Encounter in Future.

But you cant go and RULE-OUT that some Ship/Mission had already been to LV-426 before the Nostromo, or Certainly Years latter....  But this was Covered with the Alien Isolation Plot...

But i still think looking at ALIENS then the Derelicts Damage to where the Jordons had Entered.. it looked like some kind of Internal Explosion or a External Missile or Meteor Strike... and so there could be a STORY there ;)

But regarding what the Nostromo had been up-to prior to ALIEN then it seems like shes Quite Old, maybe she had a Different Role than just being a SPACE TUG... at some-point she would have been Upgraded inc New Propulsion/FTL System and became a TUG and then Dallas and Ripley etc had been Enlisted as Crew.

I am not trying to Dispel the idea that before ALIEN that some Horrors could be Found by Mankind... Certainly with a Galaxy with Planets that have to some Degree the ability to have Life then would all LIFE be something thats NOT a Threat and also with the Engineers Plot we have to Wonder IF and WHEN had they Deployed their Bio-Weapons on other Worlds..

While i think there is a LOT to the Franchise beyond and behind what we see in the Movies, i do think that some of the Stuff you would be a Little Limited with.

I think Ripley would be a Good Example, and YES she was the Main/Biggest and Well Known Character in the Franchise but she SPENT most of it SLEEPING...  so Beyond the Cryo-Sleep then after the Nostromo Incident she only LIVED for a Few Weeks..  

I think that YES she had done more in her Life than Dealing with Xenomorphs, but then if we go to her Life prior to being Assigned to the Nostromo is there much that is INTERESTING to commit 4+ Hours to?

With the Weyland-Yutani Company then there is  LOT you could do as they again are NOT just going around trying to OBTAIN the Xenomorph.  There are other Things, the MAIN thing we are aware of is BUILDING BETTER WORLDS and that involves Exploring Space/Worlds for Viability to Colonize, Terra-Form or Mine.

But there is other History too as its LIKELY those Companies where ONCE Rivals... prior to the MERGER.... we get a Idea from the Viral Site and Ted Talk material for Prometheus about WHAT kinds of things that Weyland Industries are involved with and you can be SURE that Yutani also has a Library of of Things they are involved with.

If we are considering the Prequels as Canon, then the Merger would have happened within a 10 Year Period after Peter Weyland took his Last Breath on LV-223.

Talking about Specific Characters then YES i think Peter Weyland is a Big Player in the Background.  With the History from the Ted Talk then he had already Achieved a LOT more much more would have came NEXT...  I would assume that the Period of Greatness for him would have been between 2040-2060 this Certainly would be a Period where the BUILDING BETTER WORLDS became a Reality.

Guy Pearce is quite Underrated in my Opinion, and so his Work Schedule is NOT as Busy as a Lot of A-List Actors, he would also NOT go and Command a Massive Pay Day.. He is currently nearing his Mid 50's and so that makes him Viable to play a Peter Weyland within a Time-Line of say 2040-2060

I think another Interesting Point to look at within the Franchise that has a BIG BEARING on the History of Earth, would be the Period of Time that is Prior to ALIEN RESURRECTION.  It appears the Earth or Part of it has Suffered a Calamity, we see Paris in Ruins.... we also learn that Synthetics have Sub-Created the Autons and from Call we get the Picture the Autons have more Care for Humanity than Synthetics and so their is a HISTORY and Rivalry on Earth and Conflict... Mankind can WAR against each other a LOT but when you throw in A.I/Synthetics and they Sub-Create too then you have a Number of Players/Parties looking to have their SLICE of the Earth which is a Recipe for War and Destruction as seen with Paris at the END of Alien Resurrection.

I think the Problem we have with a ALIEN TV Show is that there would be a Expectancy for it to have the ALIEN in some part.

Wow! Nice catch. Love to hear Kamen's original piece for the scene.

ALIEN CHRONICLES 03: First flight of the Nostromo

have the first crew of the Nostromo take her out, testing the landing system on a planet or two ( spoiler alert: They find something! ), then they pick up it's first mining barge. During the episode they lose multiple crew members ( crushed, eaten ), cursing the ship from the start. Final scene: Dallas ( CGI with Skerritt making a cameo ) taking command......With Ripley as his girlfriend. (thanks BlackAnt )

While I'm at I want to weave in a little fun fact. John Mctiernan directed Predator the year before. Fun but unlikely precursor to AVP lol.

I can definitely maybe see him as hardened old Colonial marine lol.

And yeah the music was a rather fun and unexpected fine. I sat with that piece in my head for a couple hours before I looked it up. I guess John Mctiernan didn't like Michael Kamen's composition for that scene and borrowed from James Horner. It works since both were Fox movies. 

dk I'm going to have to disagree with you on AVP'04, Its a terrible movie no matter what. AVPR did AVP justice by killing off the AVP movie series which allowed stand-alone alien and predator movies to be made because befre then Fox was only wanting to make more AVPs which I was not a fan of because:

1. Paul W S Anderson was at the helm of the first movie which he butchered alot of the original lore for his own homebrew lore.

2. Present day Earth as a setting

3. Paul W S Anderson butchered the comic's lore and made a mess of it in the movie. Originally in the comics the Predators think the Humans are the ultimate prey, not the xenomorphs. In the movie the predators think its the xenomorphs. By comparison the xenomorphs aren't as dangerious as humans, because humans rival the yaut'ja on an intellectual level because we have access to space travel and can use the Predator's own weapons against them while the xenomorphs have the intellect and behavior of a baboon.

Very good ear, and I hear what you post and mean I think. 

Honestly, I tend to ignore good scores since they usually immerse with everything else. It's a package deal and I love it when all those elements match up. I notice the impact of a score when it is absent.

I am pretty sure some of these pieces can be discussed among alert and astute fans, and that is fantastic! Carry on!

Bruce would be awesome to see in an extremely subtle and obscure way even if a voice on a radio announcement, for an Alien show.

Here's the scene as well as the original music btw

https://youtu.be/LVeVf03SkVU 

Music begins at about 2:05

https://youtu.be/4yoqAuBlaGU

Very interesting topic BigDave....well done again as always.

Yes I agree there are many stories worth telling here and for good reason.

For me I want to see Guy Pearce brought back and I would like to see a young Peter Weyland create the Weyland corporation. I find these types of stories irresistible and worth while. 

Obviously without a doubt I want to see a younger Ellen Ripley and how she comes to be aboard the Nostromo.

If it were possible I would like to see Ash tied in within a few of these story lines and then how he gets put on the ship as well.

Very fascinating indeed!

I think thats a Good Point... if she had Quite a bit of Success after ALIENS then the Writers for a 3rd Movie maybe would have came up with a Plot thats set say 10 Years after ALIENS, so she could reprise her Roll as Newt.

Regarding the OT... i think that you have other Avenues for a ALIEN Movie than having to RETCON anything, or Connecting to Previous Characters.

Its a BIG Galaxy and who knows what Worlds had Eggs arrive, or have the After-Math of the Black Goo and WHAT kind of Horrors are in Store..

Well the Idea would be the First Two would also be where we go back and forth to KEY Characters, its from EP4 where it would be a BIT like ALIEN, EP5/6 get like AR and it be about 7/8 when it be Multiple Monsters on the Rampage and more Running and Shooting...

The Episode on the Stranded Salvage Ship/Hauler the Charon would be Very Similar to ALIEN.

I attempt to Uplift and Use some Concepts that were Dropped from the Franchise... but it MAY NOT go and please those who may want something more Generic and YES there are Elements where its LIKE... we have Seen This before (just done slightly different) but i CHALLENGE anyone to give a Xenomorph Movie/TV Show where you do something for MOST of it that has NOT been done before ;)

The Octopoid like Organism on the ALIEN Ship would be like a Clam well it would look like a Cross Between Xeno-Egg and a Clam...  The Cecaelias (what i currently will call it) will have TWO ways to Procreate..  1) It can Egg Morph a Host which Produces the Arachnoid Queen, 2) It can Impregnate a Parasite that Hijacks a Females Ovaries to Produce something more Similar to the Xenomorph.

The Arachnoid (working name at moment) will have 4 Legs that are similar to say a Face Hugger, it has 2 Arms, and 2 Tentacles.  Again this has TWO ways to Procreate the SAME Organism.... it has a Tail  that has Multiple Uses, it has a Stinger that will Paralyses a Victim, this Stinger then OPENS UP to allow the Organism to Weave like a Web/Cocoon to Immobilize a Host (stick them to Walls) but then it also can Deposit Small Eggs.

The Arachnoid can also Directly Implant a Scarab like Organism into a Hosts Throat.   The Eggs will hatch like Arachnid/Scarab like Creatures that will try to Enter a Host which includes EAT there way in.

Either Procreation will lead to another Variant a Bi-Pedal Organism a bit Different to the Xenomorph with 2 Extra  Razor Sharp Scythed Limbs.  I have NOT thought of HOW or IF these can Procreate.

The Last Organism the Incubus is more like the Xenomorph and this can Infect a Females Egg Cells to make a Off-Spring thats VERY similar to the Xenomorph or with a Male it infects a Virus like Pathogen that would see them Loose their Minds, Mutate but eventually they would just reduce to a Mass of Genetic Material where some Egg/Spores will grow from.

The Idea is it would show the ALIEN SHIP in One of its Cargo Holds has a Organism that looks to Procreate and that each Generation of Procreation will Change to suit its Environment and Chances of Survival.    The Arachnoids and Off-Spring have a Hive Mind.

But the Incubus has a Psychic Link also with its Host, but i was thinking also anyone it can come into LONG Contact with.

The Monsters Aesthetic i invasion to Merge a lot of Unused Concepts even going back to ALIEN.

I always loved 3's visual style. Just Dark and nasty...I love it.

I also love Resurrection's cast for the most part. They may not have much depth but they had personality

That would work BigDave! Very Alien...better in space, but i'll soon get over that aspect.

Need more monsters like your idea...a xeno a episode would get tiresome (Daleks every episode, Klingons every episode, etc......)

If Carrie Henn had enjoyed a successful acting career ( teen movies or some Arnold flick)....I'm sure they would have kept the team together ( I'm not suggesting Alien3 was her fault though ) only a handful of actors have made the jump from a childhood acting career to a-list movie star able to carry / support a major motion picture!

Certainly LETO....

With a lot of those Movies we have Loose Ends so to Speak, these are NOT shown on Screen... we can ASSUME that after ALIENS then the Derelict is NULL/VOID and the ONLY route to the Xenomorph was Ripley and she is TOAST.

Between ALIEN and ALIENS then we still have the Derelict sitting there, but we are given the indication that for some reason the Company are Unaware and so there is Questions to ASK about the Company after they Failed to get a Specimen with Special Order 937, but indeed its something that had no Continuation to WHAT was NEXT, but that NEVER effected the Franchise.. so i see your Point.

The Prequels Leave more such Loose Ends... and its UNLIKELY we would get a Conclusion or Answers to WHY they only bother with LV-426.

A New TV Series should NOT have to Conflict anything, but by Virtue of it seeming like a ALIEN SHIP and ALIEN ORGANISM that are related to the ALIEN Franchise, and these END UP on Earth like in the NOT too Distant Future was a Concern.

But it NEED to NOT be if with a Good Solid Written Plot with a Conclusion to Clear  Up any Loose Ends ;)

If the Time-Line is say 2035-2045 then we look at HOW does the ALIEN come into play?

1) A Space Mission to somewhere in our Solar System, say Mars returns with a Specimen?  or on the Moon!.....  maybe that can Work.... it maybe could be like what ALIEN was like say IF they Stuck Kane on ICE.. and Returned Home..  But for me having something related to the Xenomorph in our Solar System would BEG the Question... WHY bother with LV-426

2) They Detect a Crashed Derelict at Sea (or One Crashes into the Sea Recently) and they Recover it and Especially if its Weyland or Weyland-Yutani.  This would Conflict the Prequels even more...

3) They Discover a Crashed Derelict on Land somewhere, somewhere Remote would be better, Under Ice (but we are doing a The Thing here), Worse would be something Recently Crashes  out to Discover it and more so IF the Weyland/Weyland Yutani Company are Involved in a Time-Line prior to the Prequels.

The WORST CASE would be that a Derelict/Juggernaught comes to Earth to Attack us, and its Shot Down, but then we get Xenomorphs and Engineers and Especially if its NOT in a Remote Location....   BUT I DOUBT we shall see such a Plot ;)

I will make a TOPIC on my Idea i had the other Night, it may not Please Everyone because there would be 3 kinds of Monster and only the ONE would be Very Close to the Xenomorph... the Incubus if you would.

The Nutshell is...

A Downed Earth Space Mission crashes in the Bermuda Triangle, a Search and Rescue Team are Deployed to where the Ship is Suspected to be, but they Discover something else....  They Enter the ALIEN Ship, a Tremor Happens and causes a Team Member to Fall into a PIT of Pods.. and becomes Infected...   The ALIEN Ship begins to Flood and Move so they go back to the Salvage Ship.

A Alien Organism is Unleashed on the Salvage Ship which gets Stranded in the Bermuda Triangle, the Crew are Picked Off, and we see that some of them are TAKEN away and some are Egg Morphed, other Cocooned to the Walls.   The ALIEN goes and Rapes we assume (Off Screen) a Female, then it is Distracted and Wounded... its ACID BLOOD then Eats though the Hull and the Ship starts to Sink but then the Engine Room Explodes...

We have TWO Survivors... one a Early Pregnant Female who has NOW got a Infected Fetus... well maybe Twins.. They are taken to another Ship...

The Company at Play demand the Location where they was looking but the Survivors Refuse... the Company would NOT Find anything but the Wreckage of the Salvage Ship where they recover a Large Egg.... this is taken to a Secret Outpost.

The Surviving Female has some Pains, she is Concerned about her 6-9 week Old Child (this was to be her Last Salvage Dive before Maternity Leave) but the Dr says it feels like she is more Long Term than that... she has a SCAN and something is Detected.. the Woman is taken to the Secret Base and has the Fetus Removed...  she is Refused to see it.... but the StarChild if you would has a Connection to her... (i am thinking maybe her Unborn Child is also taken out), there becomes a like Physic link between her and the Incubus

This when the Second Half or last 3rd of the Series then takes place on the Outpost as the £"$£% Hit the Fan with TWO Monsters on the Loose...  where it gets a bit more Alien Resurrection for some Action.

The Monsters that Feature are...

The Cecaelias: (Pod on the Derelict)

The Arachnoid: (Result of Egg Morph and its Procreation then after).

The Incubus: (Result of Rape on a Female)

The Incubus being what is Closely Related to our Xenomorph.

"*Cough* *cough* someone forgot about Alien 3. :-)"

I was talking about in General ;)  i dont think Alien 3 should be Removed because it gave Ripley a Good Ending... a Sacrifice....  when Blomkamp and Weaver talked Alien V they kept on about Happy Ending for Ripley, Newt, Hicks and even Bishop..... NO THANK YOU!

I think that Alien R had Set Up some Potential, if they had the BALLS to try something Different... but then it would be Expected to see Eggs and Xenomorphs again and so i agree with Ridley Scott when he said there is ONLY so much Face Pulling, Chest Bursting and Snarling that you can do.

"Not sure if we will see the Engineers again but it would be bad to just throw them away."

I think there are Fans who would LOVE to see them again but only in like a Comic Book way... where the Angry SOB's come to Earth with Xenomorphs! 

IF you are going to go for a WAR ON EARTH kind of Plot i feel it would be BEST to take Place after Alien R and i think that Alien R can UPLIFT the Plot...

Xenomorphs and Engineers with Ships and Technology... vs Colonial Marines... i mean come ON!!!    it would be like Predator vs Caveman!

If our Defense is Marines then GOD help us.. but it would be GOD who is out to Destroy us....  Well Programed Androids/Robots should be better... but we know you can get Problems with A.I...   

Thats NOT a attack on the Marines, i think it depends on HOW MANY of the Engineers come and Xenomorphs... as they are just Humans..

However with Ripley 8 you have a Super Human... if you could Clone or Use her DNA to Create Superior Military Force then that could Turn the Tables....... maybe they wont be a Match for the Engineers very own Genetically Engineered Freaks (LV-223 Guys) but with a Ripley 8 DNA... a Twist could be they could Communicate with the Xenomorph and they Turn on the Engineers...

A Downfall to a kind of Hive Mind Connection between Xeno DNA Super Soldiers and Xenomorphs could be IF the both Species then Cooperate for their own Combined Agenda.. they would be a BIGGER threat than the Engineers at this Point a Coalition of Xenomorph and Humans with Xeno-DNA would be BAD for the Galaxy!

"Hicks and Newt were not the main-thing anyways so who continue with them?"

I think we have to remember that Miss Weaver did want to have Ripley get Killed Off.... did they have to KILL our Newt?

Again you raise the Great Point of HOW do you have her on a Planet of Rapist!  But the Biggest thing to Consider for those who was like "they Killed Newt"  well Carrie Henn would have been about 15 when they was Shooting Alien 3 so they would have had to Cast another Actress... Unless the PLOT was changed to be 10 Years after ALIENS!

IF i was to Change ALIEN 3 i would have had it that Newt was where the ALIEN had came from... seeing her Chest Busted would been Shocking!   It would also have made a Greater Loss to Ripley and Hicks!

Oh yes Hicks.... i would have kept him ALIVE and at the End after Ripley has Sacrificed herself it would UPLIFT his Character with the Loss of Newt and Ripley... and he would VOW that he would NEVER allow the Company to get its Hands on the Xenomorph again..

So you then have PASSED the Torch onto Hicks... for Potential Sequel.

"Perhaps a sort of common people versus intergalactic gangsters backed by WY?"

Certainly... what about Space Pirates i had mentioned that before... "what kind of Plunder is there on that Ship....."  OPPS!

Thoughts_Dreams

>>>what I want and what most people into the franchise want might be different things maybe.

I think everyone agrees on one thing - get a good, consistent story.

As a subjective being, I will say:

Unique ideas can be sacrificed in order to create a workable story. Prometheus is a great film; with the most inspiring ideas in the franchise, but it looks like a video artbook with little notes and no final conclusion.

Covenant, on the other hand, appears to be devoid of truly new ideas, but works better as a complete story.

The common ancestor - Alien: Engineers had both merits - new ideas and a complete plot.

To BigDave

So I will say - I don't care how the series will relate to other parts of the franchise - the main thing is that the story is complete and internally consistent.

Conflicts with other films don't bother me. There are few questions here between Alien and Aliens, there is a whole abyss of contradictions and nonsense between Aliens and Aliens 3, the same few questions with Alien 3 and AR. And, of course some conflicts between Prometheus and Alien, and even between Prometheus and Covenant + Covenant and Alien.

The franchise is already a big mess, and in order to put things together, you sometimes need to release conflicts on the brakes. Especially between Aliens and Alien 3. But Alien 3 fans don't seem to be worried. Then why should the new series be perfect and free from any conflicts?

"Prometheus better than Alien 3? Why?"

As Dr Shaw would say "because its what i choose to believe"

I loved the Score, and Visually it was Wonderful, i liked the PLOT.... but the Execution was Flawed but i liked it for its Potential.  The Characters could have been better.

With Alien 3 it had grown on me, Visually its not that Great, but it does have some Solid Characters, and its a Fitting END to the Saga of Ripley with her Sacrifice.

Like with ALIENS its Now kinda Popcorn... but Visually its Great, it does indicate more of a agenda and Intelligence to the Xenomorph a bit compared to ALIEN.

As far as Sci-Fi Action Popcorn then ALIENS i think is the Pinnacle it is WELL EXECUTED and while its a 8/10 from me.. instead of 9/10 its still a Movie that i like... i Prefer ALIEN as it had the ENIGMA of WHO was that Pilot etc.

Alien R i do like HOW it tried something a Bit Different but the Execution was NOT so Good and well the Characters for the Most Part you just Never Connected... to me CALL was the ONLY real Interesting Character.... Ripley 8 to a degree.

When looking at the Future of the Franchise under DISNEY... with a RETCON with ALIEN V...

"Why do you think you're people made me?"

"We made you cuz we could."

But you then think WHY... WHY... what about Alien 3, Alien R and the Prequels what have you done Disney (in response to the RETCON).

The Reply....

"Sometimes to create, one must first destroy!"

@Thoughts_Dreams

Again you touch upon Good Points....

Personally i think the Biggest Problem with the Franchise is also what was its Biggest Draw....   The General/Casual Viewers will ASSOCIATE the ALIEN Franchise with the Xenomorph/Queen, Ripley and then Colonial Marines (also Weyland-Yutani are) i am NOT sure many would paid Attention to the Derelict/Space Jockey.  The same goes with a Proportion of the Fanbase.

So when you think ALIEN then the thing that Pops into your Mind would be Eggs, Face Huggers, Chest Busters and Xenomorphs and then our Heroine Ripley.

When you are at a Cross-Roads on what to do Next (which we reached before the Prequels and was given AVP instead of a Alien V) then its WHERE do you go NEXT... and you can REMOVE say Ripley... even dont be Tempted to give us Ripleys Grandfather, Father etc etc... Need NO Connection at all.

But you do get some who NEED/WANT to see little Connections, so say if you got a movie set after ALIENS where you had Hicks Brother or Son in Search of WHAT had Happened to their Family Member then that is something that SOME would like to see as it gives a Connection to the Beloved Character and a Plot for WHY they would be out looking....  and ALIEN Isolation had Pulled this same kind of PLOT.

But i dont think you NEED to Connect to Previous Characters, likewise you dont have to have Weyland-Yutani (as Alien R never did).

But the ONE thing that is SYNONYMOUS with the Franchise is the ALIEN the Xenomorph.... ALIEN was Alien because it had the ALIEN (Xenomorph), ALIENS was Aliens because it had more than ONE (Xenomorph) and ALIEN 3 because it had Three (Joke)..... 

But my point being that a ALIEN: Prefix is Expected to have the Xenomorph.....  EVERY MOVIE that has the Prefix has the Xenomorph in some Shape/Form....  The Exception was PROMETHEUS and they Dropped the ALIEN: Prefix because they was attempting to make a Connected Movie that is SET in the same Universe but it would NOT go and Contain the ALIEN (Xenomorph) or connect to ALIEN (Movie).

And so the ALIEN Brand Name becomes a Double Edged Sword because IF you are going to make a TV Show that would NOT be Connected to the Xenomorph...  Then you loose some Brand Recognition... go and ask 1000 Random People have you heard of Prometheus and even show them the DVD Cover and your going to get a LOT who would NOT be Familiar with it, or that its within the ALIEN Universe.   And so the ALIEN Prefix would HELP to get that Recognition/Marketing but along with having the Prefix then the Expectation that it should have the ALIEN would be expected by some... if NOT then you would have the Casual Viewer be like "HOW was that a ALIEN TV Show" and some Fans be like "Where the Feck was the ALIEN"

Even if you called it Weyland Yutani: Building Better Worlds then NOT everyone will know how its Connected and WHEN its pointed out they may be like oh "so where is the ALIEN"

A Colonial Marines TV Show may be Recognized more, but again it may Carry the Expectation of "where did the ALIEN go"

so the Franchise is Shackled with the ALIEN Name its what makes it Stand Out as its a recognized Brand but then it will Carry the Expectation of having the Xenomorph for MOST of the People. (by that inc Casual Viewers).

The Prequels with Prometheus had OPENED UP the Franchise, because we could look at ALIEN as being something that was TRULY ALIEN.. so those EGGS are ALIEN but then so was that SHIP, the PILOT.... and so when Expand on them, even with the Engineers then they are ALIEN and the Plot Opens it up to MANY Worlds, and MANY Species/Creatures and as they are NOT from Earth then they are ALIEN.... the Galaxy is ALIEN.

One Downfall of Prometheus was that the Creatures/Monsters it did-show maybe did-not have enough of a Connection to the Xenomorph and we NEVER really had a Relatable Monster given enough Screen Time... something which Alien: Engineers had much more of..

So when you are going to do a ALIEN Movie/TV Show and Especially with the Prefix then you would be Expected to have something they can RELATE to either those Eggs/Xenomorph or the Space Jockey/Engineers.  But that does-not mean a Carbon Copy just something Familiar.

Anyway i will Copy my Pitch to a New Topic and make some Changes.... my Idea would have also tried to UPLIFT the Xenomorph, especially with the Episode: Incubus

So that it has its Own Topic to NOT go and Distract from the Official News/Story of the ALIEN TV SHOW.

Thoughts_Dreams: Fair enough. My issue with the comics is many people I talk to want a straight adaptation with Hicks Newt and Ripley as they were in those comics. Goes without saying they're all Cameron fan boys that hate 3. Aliens is my personal fave but I also love 3 and accept it's decisions. As for comics I wouldn't a story in the vein of Aliens Defiance. It had a great story, characters, and good balance of action and horror. Its right up there with Isolation for being one of the better Alien stories I encountered in the past decade.

And same with the Assembly cut of Alien 3. I think the last time I saw the theatrical version of 3 it was either on TV or vhs lol. I feel old now

I had this weird observation that AVP:R is just a weird remake of Resident Evil Apocalypse which itself is a mediocre movie. But again that shit is like 28 Days Later when compared to Requiem lol.

Chli:

"it was probably a wrong decision not to continue the story of Ripley, Hicks and Newt."

I disagree, Alien has never been about family and happiness, that would also have been a repetition and that to me would have been boring like an Alien 2.0. This would have made Aliens less special since it would have repeated itself but now thankfully we have one Aliens that we can enjoy.

Killing them off was a necessary thing because then you could try something else and not be tied to what happened there. I doubt that it would have been an interesting movie to have Hicks and Newt in a prison full off rapists and so on. Even Alien 3 by Gibson that had Ripley in a come felt kind of eh, so I think that they did the right thing in the end.

Many people think that the Star Wars sequels weren't that great but the way that I would have reacted to another Hicks and Newt-story would probably have been worse than how I reacted to the sort or rehash that the Star Wars sequels became. Hicks and Newt were not the main-thing anyways so who continue with them? They were never as interesting as Ripley although the characters were well-made.

A new movie in the Alien-verse should have nothing to do with what we have seen. The Engineers could be featured but other than that I would say move on. It's time to get interesting again, so don't make it about androids.

“Even James Cameron expressed doubt about killing off the main characters of Aliens in Alien 3. There was a special bond between Ripley, Newt and Hicks - a potential family.”

He can have his opinion, I don't agree at all. If he wants the franchise to have a feel good thing going on he could go somewhere else. You have Disney animated movies, and so on, but Alien isn't one of these things.

Episodic movies please, all the characters that you mentioned are done to me. Those from Aliens had their time and the rest are not interesting. I would rather move on than to see something that we have seen before. You can keep some of the themes but in a new story and new characters.

Wouldn't it be more likely that we will see games, comics, and so on? If we look at how the movies have done since after Alien 3 we can see that they haven't done that well. Prometheus did decent but that was probably because Scott and a bit of waiting since the last one.

Looking at Covenant and how it did I doubt that they will continue the David-story (thanks F for that). Maybe make new prequels and give it to someone that can write and a director that knows his or her limits maybe? Scott doesn’t seem to be able to do that.

No Blomkamp please, not interested in another Ripley story. Make something else, an independent movie more like Rogue One. There would be no Ripley, no David, for example. Give me something new that works, not like the prequels that messed things up.

“This Project had HOWEVER became Dead in the Water!”

Phew! Good! It's time to move on, Ripley should have stayed dead after 3.

“but the Question would be WHAT Movies would Survive as Canon?”

As long as they never touch Alien 3 I'm fine, they can do whatever they want with the rest. If they would improve what we have after Alien 3 then why not? I don't mean as in time-line but the prequels and Alien R (don't care about AVP and whatever).

Give me something new, new monsters, new worlds. An interesting story and well-made characters are required but other than that I’m open to different things.

“especially ALIEN and ALIENS are Considered so Iconic and Deserve their Place in the Franchise”

*Cough* *cough* someone forgot about Alien 3. :-)

“If this is the CASE then WHAT/WHERE do they take us?”

I would like to see survival-horror of some sort, one could say that it has been done to death but you can add new stuff to it. You can add new things to try to expand the franchise. Even though the prequels are disappointments we got new monsters, new worlds, and the Engineers. Not sure if we will see the Engineers again but it would be bad to just throw them away.

What I don't want is poorly made human characters and a focus on androids. F the focus on androids, that sucks even though they can be part of the movie (it worked with Ash and Bishop). The prequels made me think about what I don't want so that is something good I guess. Last but not least: don't cut out important parts just to get a certain run-time, that leaves out important parts and destroys the movie (the prequels show that).

“Sadly this may make them Conclude that Ripley, Xenomorphs with a Dash of Marines is the SAFE BET!”

How about a Rogue One about the Colonial marines without Ripley? This could show us new monsters and new worlds without it being Aliens 2. Keep the marines but try new things and also, please no 80s vibes - you got to update things. I could accept this, at least it’s something new, but we need people to care about.

We have had an action-movie, and horror-movies. Maybe there is a third genre that could work that are not far away from those but that you could add something different from. Perhaps a sort of common people versus intergalactic gangsters backed by WY?

Answering the thing about the trailers to AC, they were crappy because they were misleading and showed a better movie than we were given. I doubt that the movie would have been better just by having more action in it because the problems would still have been the same. One action-scene was with David and Walter, but it was still, yeah whatever since the android-parts wasn't what I watched it for.

The idea of a robot that starts to become self-aware and becomes a threat could work if you put it in the background as a part of the movie and have better human characters and have more humans versus monster-moments. For that to work you got to care about the characters and not just throw the monsters in there like Scott did. Covenant to me is more like Alien R in quality rather than Alien kind of quality, I'm not joking even though it's better than AR but that's not a huge achievement.

“So i think the Initial Box Office Numbers before Word of Mouth were LESS than i expected.”

Not surprising, they got rid of the Engineers, made it about an angry robot and had almost no characters worth a damn, plus they made the Xeno a creation of a bored robot. Not sure how anyone can't see how that will turn into average at best. Yeah, they replaced the Xeno-action with a long scene about fluting (yes I understand that they discussed creation there but what ever) which was long and slow. While the creation-theme isn't meaningless in itself it wasn't executed well.

Scott is not a writer, he can make great visuals but as far as the writing and the monster go, leave that to someone else because he isn't capable of handling that. It is doubtful that he will be involved in another alien-movie if we look at how the prequels turned out and that he had a huge part in what became of them. My guess about Scott's involvement and why I wrote that is because I try to imagine how the studio looks at it. Let him handle the visuals and that's it.

Spin-off or Franchise, whatever they decided it failed. They must have:

• Better human characters
• Less about robots
• Don't cut character-parts to get a run-time (both prequels are proof of that)
• Let the writers write, not the director
• No Ripley