Comments (Page 107)

My perspective is most movie franchise's feel played out in someway or another. Alien's glory days are well behind it. About 5 or 6 years ago my brother and I had observed nearly every major sci fi franchise had something in the pipeline. Everything from Alien, Predator, Terminator, RoboCop, Star Wars, Star Trek, Planet of the Apes, Riddick, Jurassic Park, Godzilla, BladeRunner, Independence Day and more all had something on the way. All seemingly promising these old series were back and here to stay. 5 or so years later, most of these series have once again gone dormant. Something we all have in common here is we all love the Alien franchise to varying extents. For a fact most of us will agree on 2 movies in the series. For a fact all of us will definitley agree on one movie, that being Alien.

Like I said to the guys on Alien Theory's discord, its an old franchise that has only produced two truely classic movies. The rest all have fans, but remain divisive. All I got to do is go through a ranking of David Fincher's films and see Alien 3 consistently ranked dead last with said site just saying it's a bad movie. Alien 3 may have been reexamined and somewhat redeemed among a certain portion of the fanbase, it however has not been treated with respect the same way Blade Runner has. Blade Runner was much like Alien 3 where studios interfered too much and the theatrical release suffered for it. Only in the decade that followed did Blade Runner eventually a merge as the classic it is renowned for today. Instead Alien 3 has the dubious reputation that truely killed Alien, a good amount of fans still hate it as well as hating every movie since. Critics and casual audiences don't care either. 

When you look at it from this perspective, Alien is an extremely difficult series to reinvigorate. Its now just an old movie to modern audiences who'll probably know it better from references in movies like Infinity War or Ready Player One than actually having seen it. Like I said, if Star Wars is officially a hard sell, then it's a even harder sell for Alien.

I think that there are OPTIONS to do a ALIEN Movie where we DONT have to Retcon or Reboot or bring back Ripley.

ALIEN is our First Introduction to the Franchise, and Special Order 937 came about some HOW and i think with the Prequels it may have SHOWN us HOW that came to be, and so the Company was AWARE of something on LV-426.

With ALIENS we go back to LV-426 some 57 Years and it seems the Company at Present have NO knowledge about the Derelict...  It is only when the Coordinators are SENT to Hadleys Hope that the Jordons go to Investigate that the FALL of Hadleys Hope begins to the Point that after Two Weeks the Company has Heard NOTHING.

Would the Company had just Abandoned trying to Investigate LV-426 after the Nostromo Mission?

If you consider the Prequels this would seem UNLIKELY unless they can Obtain Something from another Location that is Connected to the Prequels.

But i have brought this up before....

What Caused this Damage?

With Prometheus we saw the Juggernaught took a Good HIT and had Rolled on the Ground and YET it had NO SIGNS of Major Damage.

The Derelict we are led to that it Crash Landed and again it seemed Intact!

So with the Damage we see in ALIENS when the Jordons go to the Derelict, this is OPEN to Wonder as to HOW this Happened?

Another Plot/Story that would Eventually Conclude with a ATTEMPT to BLOW UP the Derelict with POWERFUL EXPLOSIVES could be HOW the Damage had Occurred.

The Result of this could have KICKED UP a lot of Dust and Debris etc so they would ASSUME they had Destroyed or Rendered the Derelict as VOID!

There could have been a COVER UP to Erase All the Information about LV-426 and the Derelict... that when the Company had began to Build Hadleys Hope they was NOT aware of the Derelict.

So again there is a Potential Avenue for a ALIEN Movie.

There are others... the Franchise does-not have to be DEAD and it does not have to Resurrect Ripley again.

Certainly SM

I think something to remember is that some EVENTS could have Happened that we had NOT seen on Screen.

Such as if Ripley was aware they FOUND a Face Hugger she would likely WANT to have it Destroyed so the Company cant get their Hands on it ;)   While this is NOT shown it could be used as a Explanation that there was NOTHING they could gain... not a DROP of DNA...  Until 100 Years Latter when the USM go and Captain a Specimen from Cloning Ripley.

I think Regarding the Sulaco if we only go by Movies, then we know there was a FIRE, would it have Caused the Destruction of the SHIP?  Who knows... 

It Certainly would have Caused Damage to Part of the Ship, and so they could have it that the Area where the Eggs where had Suffered so much Fire Damage that their is NOTHING to be Obtained!

I think that after the EVENTS of Alien 3 at some point be it Days, Weeks, Months or Years... surely they would SEND out something to Survey LV-426 and see if anything can be Salvaged.

Just because 100 Years latter they Resorted to using the DNA of Ripley to obtain a Specimen...  This does not mean that something could have been HAD from LV-426 or some place else...

But IF they do Obtain something between 2180-2220 for Instance then in the AFTERMATH then what ever they had Obtained would surely be DESTROYED with NO Trace for them to Obtain anything else.

Regarding the Xenomorph....

I think regardless of HOW it ENDS up on the Derelict and WHO would have Created It....   can we really just ASSUME that the Derelict was the ONLY such Ship that was LOADED with the Cargo?

We see the Engineers have been messing about with STUFF on LV-223 and we have at least 5 of those Complexes, do all of them Contain the SAME BLACK GOO?  Do all of them have the same Mural/Fresco?

Or could EACH of them have a Different Variant of Experiments?

We know they LIKELY had Results... and so would such Beasts had been Stored and Transported to some Place?

We have seen the Black Goo was able to Mutate Life and Create Horrors we can Draw some Connection to the Xenomorph with... Hammerpede, Trilobite/Deacon and Neomorph.

What becomes of LV-223 from 2100-2150?

Is this the ONLY place the Engineers had Experimented on and Created Horrors?

Is Planet 4 the ONLY place that has suffered a Bombardment of the Bio-Weapon?

So there could be other EGGS or related Horrors out in the Galaxy, that are YET to be Discovered.

I think the MAIN way they Painted themselves into a Corner is that its Logical that we would Eventually go and Connect to ALIEN.  Which means that Eventually we would see Davids Creation become Evolved somewhat and END UP on a Engineer Ship that would END UP in the Zeta 2 System.

Likely had been going to LV-223 or Leaving LV-223 before the Space Jockey gets a BAD CASE of Indigestion ;)

"Well, as for Engineers, there seem to be none left"

I would doubt it, we have had Ridley Scott suggested that Engineers would RETURN to Planet 4 and so in his Mind and Plans for the Prequels there are MORE of them out there.

We have to bear in mind that the PLOT of the Engineers opens up the Franchise to a HUGE Scale... BIGGER than Star Wars and Star Trek....

*The Engineers have been around for at LEAST many Millions of Years.

*It is Unlikely that the Earth is the ONLY place that they Seeded and Visited.

The Engineers Navigation System showed other Galaxies, if i Remember right i recalled about 9, but it could be a bit more or less.  IF they have these in their Navigation Systems i think it means they can TRAVEL to other Galaxies and if they have say 7-10 in that Navigation System they could have MORE than that... as FAR as what they can Visit.

IF they can Traverse to other Galaxies then surely they can Reach anywhere in our Galaxy.  The above Image i have taken a Section that is 3700LY give or take and ZOOMED it in as this Area is where the Earth is and bound to be where the Franchise took place... The TINY RED DOT is what Covers a 50LY Area...

THIS is just a Needle in the Haystack to the Engineers.

"Big Things have Small Beginnings"

The Franchise inc Prequels may have Confined us to say 50LY but the PLOT of the Engineers can Expand to a IMMENSE amount of the Universe, so many Potential Worlds and Races and Horrors.

It would be WASTED to just go and say.. ok Engineers on LV-223 Gone, Engineers on Planet 4 Gone... NO more Engineers.

@MonsterZero

RS did say the ALIEN Franchise could be like where the Star Wars and Star Trek are NOW.. and people LAUGHED at his Comment.

However... what if he meant in Context to if we have these Engineers who for Hundreds of Millions of Years have been Creating Life across the Galaxy and they can also GO TO other Galaxies...  then that means SO MANY WORLDS..

What Races, are all of them Engineer Creations? What Conflicts?  What Horrors?

With the Prometheus Plot we LET the Franchise out of that Small RED Box!

It would be  CRIME for them to think SOD that.... lets go back to LV-426 and the Derelict and PUT the Franchise back in that TINY BOX..... more so if its a OH! and Ripley will LEAD the Charge because Alien 3 had NEVER Happened.

The Franchise has the Potential to be BIGGER than the Xenomorph and Ripley... just have they got the BALLS anymore?

Oh anyway MonsterZero my POINT is that within the Revelation of the Engineers, then the ALIEN Franchise could Expand to Offer just as MANY would be Races as Star Wars and Star Trek ;)

The Sulaco has a number of fates depending on whether you take the novelisation, Alien 3 - The Gun, the Colonial Marines Tech Manual, Aliens Infestation, Aliens Colonial Marines, or the first comic book series into account.

I generally go with the novelisation - it was damaged by the fire and an impact with an empty rogue EEV - but otherwise continued back to Gateway.

For the Patna, I go with it being a bust and they found nothing other than Ripley's blood samples.

So where is the Sulaco in all this? Did the fire cause her to burn up in the atmosphere?  

I'd think enough fans would know what the Sulaco is/was..maybe make a series about her.

Yeah Big Dave! I Would love a tv mini series! Build a foundation.

Alien3 felt like episode 7 of season 2..the prison planet episode.

A:R episode 4 of season 3. The military one.

Alien Covenant  a two part season 5 finale.

Alien, Aliens, Prometheus seemed like movies to me.

If Star Trek and Star Wars can do both tv and the big screen.....then Alien can to!(along with Predator)

Well, as for Engineers, there seem to be none left. All Engineers on LV-223 died because of the outbreak (the last one thanks to Janek’s sacrifice) around the time of Christ. David exterminated the rest of them on Planet 4, which was their homeworld. In Prometheus, we are shown that the Space Jockey is, or rather was, an Engineer. We have also been told what they were up to so there seems to be nothing more to explore about the Engineers.

We have also been told that David created the xenomorph because he wanted a “wolf” to avenge everybody who had wronged him (mankind) and have the power over the galaxy. So there is nothing further to explore there either.

So, it seems they have painted themselves into a corner . . .

Absolutely MonsterZero  as i mentioned in another Thread the Characters are what can MAKE/BREAK a Movie.

I think with ALIEN it was a Small Cast and a Slow Build Up, as in General its about the Character and Background and also the amount of TIME that is Spent on a Character, the Latter in a Movie a Character is Killed or in Jeopardy the more we have a Connection.

So my point being with say ALIENS if Hicks was Killed during the First Encounter with the Hive we would likely be Meh!  But if he say Died to Allow Newt and Ripley to Escape to the Dropship then it would have more Effect on us.

With ALIEN i feel less of a Loss for Kane and Brett compared to the others, again likely as they NEVER got as much Screen Time plus both kind of let Curiosity Kill the Cat..... thats NOT to say they was not Good Characters though.

With Prometheus i kind of could Connect with Dr Shaw and Janek but the REST as like Meh!

With Alien Covenant for me i felt more of a Loss/Connection with Faris, Oram and Karine, maybe a Small amount for Lope and Rosey.

The Rest i was like Meh!

I think when your making a Movie that is connected to others as in it is Part of a Franchise then for it to Really Work you Need to have NOT ONLY some Good Strong Characters but a Set-Up that some of these Characters will Return in a Sequel.

This is WHY maybe some who have worked on a Idea for a ALIEN Movie (Blomkamp, Hill and Giler) think about how Characters may not have worked in the Prequels and KNOW that with Ripley she was a Established Character we are Connected with and so they think that your BEST to go and Resurrect her Again!

I dont think you have to do that... but you can use the RIPLEY Connection with a Good Plot Idea.... a Great Example is Amanda Ripley and the PLOT behind her (Searching for what Happened to her Mother) If we NEVER had the Game and the Sequel Comic Series... then SUCH a Plot may have Worked as a MOVIE.

PS: I think that with a TV Series you have more TIME to Introduce and Build on Characters...  and so a 6 EP TV Series with a Budget of say $30-40M would surely be able to PULL something Decent Off... provided the Plot, the Characters and Execution is Right.

I think when looking at something to PULL in the Viewers to make a Connection to Characters then what Alien Covenant was about and Raised by Wolves could have worked...

And NOPE i am NOT talking about Robots!  But in regards to a Colony Mission to a World they HOPE to make a New Home but they Discover the Place has a Horror in store for them.

If we say NEVER got Alien Covenant the Movie but they did a TV Series that was based on the USCSS Covenant and we have the Ship arrive at Origae-6 but discover that Origae-6 has some Horror from either Xenomorph Eggs being taken to this World, or something the Result of a Black Goo Bombardment or Spillage.... then i think maybe something like this COULD have Worked.

Even if by the 2nd Episode we see some of them Explore a Outer Region and Discover some Broken Urns.... then on their way back we see ONE of them tread on a Spore and then we get the Neomorph Infection.

As you move Forwards... eventually we see another Neomorph event where it has Captured someone and we see them Cocooned and Turning into a Egg.

You could eventually show from the Egg comes some kind of Face Hugger and we get another Beast that is Different to the Neomorph a little, and something Vaguely like the Xenomorph.

By that i think the Covenant Mission was a Interesting Plot, if it had Discovered a World that had been Bombarded in the Past i think it could have worked...  the Neomorph was Interesting and to had Expanded on it and show it Egg Morph someone to Create something a little more Familiar with the Xenomorph and that we have Evidence of Urns from Prometheus... this would have Helped to make a Connection to Prometheus, and to ALIEN by showing HOW via a series of events you can get something SIMILAR to the Xenomorph Egg and Organism.

But you cant really go and do such a PLOT now as well its been done in Alien Covenant, but then WHAT kind of Plot has NOT been done in the Franchise?

Leto: You don't understand, this series isn't what we thought it was. I was wrong. We were so wrong. We must forget about it!

Forum: Think of all we can learn from it! It's a the chance of a lifetime! We must see it!

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Leto: Final report of the Alien franchise. The films and their legacy are gone. If you're receiving this transmission, don't try to get into streaming. There is only boring chatter, cheap cg effects and no place for space sci-fi here now, and I'm leaving it behind. It is New Year's Day, the year of our Lord, 20##. My name is Leto, the last survivor of the Alien franchise. And I am still hoping.

Holy crap! lot of good ideas!

My two cents:

The crew of the Nostromo was my world. RS made them every bit as important as the loss of Earth itself.

ALIEN: The lives of everyone on Earth or the Crew of the Nostromo? Nostromo. Sorry Earth.

Aliens: The lives of the Colonial Marines, Newt, Ripley or Earth? Earth loses again.

Alien3: Didn't care about a single character. Gonna choose Earth every time.

Alien:R: Earth without a doubt.  Felt sorry for the Newborn...Felt like it got a raw deal. Death to the rest.

Prometheus: Earth all the way...Has to be less dullards on that planet then on the Prometheus.

A:C Earth all the way. Covenant crew will not be missed. (If it turned out the Covenant crew was a bunch of escaped crazies it would make the movie more believable.) 

I just want to care about the characters again and where the monsters have to deal with the humans. I never thought the crew of the Nostromo were the victims. They were proactive, as with Newt and the marines...Aliens3 tried this but I didn't care enough about the characters. A:R? Lol! Victim central. Run away!

Prometheus and A:C? Coeds stumble in to a haunted house and get slaughtered. Poetic justice.

"They also have a preference to see a Colonial Marine story to which I also said no"

To be Fair i think as a TV Series then a Colonial Marine Story could be worth a Gamble.  However it depends as some Fans may Expect that such a TV Series would have to be about the Marines going down to deal with Xenomorphs.

We have the Impression that ALIENS was the Marines First Rodeo with the Xenomorph and well after ALIENS do we assume the Derelict is TOAST!

The Colonial Marines would surely be Involved in more stuff than Xenomorph Cleaning!

I think maybe a TV Series in the ALIEN Franchise about a Exploration Mission or Research where they Uncover something similar to the Xenomorph could work.  Some of the Anniversary Shorts were Interesting... so something like this but based on ONE Plot that covers say 6 Episodes with a TV Show you can Build Up Characters more, so you can have the viewers be more Involved and Fearful of their Losses.

If you are going to do that then you have to ask some Fundamental Questions.

*Do they Encounter some Xenomorphs if so HOW if the Derelict is the ONLY ship those Eggs are on... unless we go to Planet 4 or LV-223 which i doubt.

*Is there another World that other Engineer Ships with Eggs had been too?

*Is there some World where the Engineers came into Contact with a Ancestor of the Xenomorph who the Engineers then based their Experiments from?

*Are there Worlds that the Engineers had Bombarded with the Black Goo and what Horrors could be there?

OR... can you do a ALIEN TV Series that has NO Connection to Xenomorphs or Related Organisms or anything from LV-223 or other Horrors the Space Jockey/Engineers are involved with?

I say YES if its a Expanded Universe/Spin Off....  but if you USE a ALIEN: Prefix then it would be Expected to have Xenomorph Connections or Connections to the Engineers, Black Goo etc!

The same thing goes with ALIEN Movie it would be Expected to have Xenomorphs or something that is Connected.

"To argue that the lack of weapons increases the fear factor is academic nonsense"

Well that is your Opinion and i Disagree with it, i can see what you mean in that give Amanda a Pulse Riffle and 30 Shots would she still be able to KILL the Xenomorph or get Killed?   But then what if she had 10 Xenomorphs to Fend Off then the Weapon would be of Little Use!  (Forgive me if thats NOT what you meant).

I think if you was in a Situation say your Office Block has been Invaded by 5 Terrorists armed with Knives and a few Guns.... If you had access to say 3 Assault Riffles that you can Arm 3 work Colleagues you are maybe NOT going to feel Quite as Threatened and Fearful because you have Protection.

But this could Lead you or a Colleague to Feel Confident to Confront the Threat and maybe END UP getting yourself Killed anyway.

If we had a Mutated Pathogen that Turned people into Zombies i am sure the more Weapons and Type of Weapon would Certainly reduce the Worry about your Safety.  This does not mean you go Gung Hoo on the Streets Shooting Zombies... its better to have a Weapon and NOT need it, than to NEED a Weapon but have None.

When i have Played Survival Horror Games then the Tension and Stress and Panic hits more when your LOW on Ammo or have only your Hands/Feet or a Crude Hand Weapon to Defend yourself.

"Claiming that smart characters who understand the situation reduce fear and threat?"

I dont think i made that Claim...

What i was saying is that the Viewer will get more Fear, Concern and Tension if a Character they can Connect with gets Killed or nearly Killed... when you had Characters we DONT care about like Milburn then when they Die it has NO impact on us.

The Aesthetics of Most Monsters/Killers alone are NOT enough to cause Fear to many nowadays.  Its the Build Up and HOW they Attack and then HOW WELL the Characters/Victims are Written so we can Feel for their Survival.

A Jason and Myers Movie where they go to a Carnival/Fair and just go around KILLING like 15+ People is NOT really going to be Scary!

Only to those who are Squeamish to Gore and these Folk would have been Freaked out by say the Neomorphs in Alien Covenant!

I think going FORWARD then there is ONLY so much Mileage you can get out of the Xenomorph Alone and Especially in HOW we have seen it Portrayed... you also DONT need to Base the Franchise around Ripley!

I think that Exploring the Space Jockey and WHO they are and WHAT they are Involved in is the WAY to Progress the Story.. and Franchise.

It appeared Prior to the Prequels that the Space Jockey was Connected to the Xenomorph, and so we had to LOOK at WHAT this Connection could be.... but then AFTER you have made that its WHAT NEXT?

This depended on WHAT role the Xenomorph had, a Discovered Organism the Space Jockey used as a Weapon or Attempted to Experiment with... or even had Created via Experiments does kind of LIMIT you because UNLESS the Xenomorph is UPLIFTED beyond a Killing Machine or Space Ant then your NOT going to get much Millage from it.

So you would have to TRY something NEW and well the Space Jockey is something that was NEVER covered after ALIEN.

So the Bigger Potential was to look at WHO the Space Jockey are and their Agenda and WHY they had those Eggs.

*What Conflict was they in for them to WANT to use them to Destroy?

*Where they merely Explorers who had came Across the Eggs and if so... WHAT would have been their Intentions with them?  Or had they had NO knowledge of what they was Dealing with?

*Are the Space Jockey Enslaved to go and Drop these Eggs Off to Worlds... IF so then by WHO and WHAT do the Space Jockey Gain?

Some of this Potential was LOST when we got ALIENS as the Xenomorph became Portrayed as something that maybe could have been some Invasive Species that are like Space Ants... or merely a Engineered Weapon that would BEHAVE as such and in doing so its Need and HOW it would Procreate would make it Devastating to a World its Unleashed on!

Prior we had the Starbeast and its Plot that NEVER made it to ALIEN... if the Xenomorph had been Expanded to follow that Plot then it may have Offered more Options.

Anyway regarding the Space Jockey when we got the Prequels they had Evolved to become our Engineers and the Creation Plot... this OPENS up the Franchise for Expansion but after Alien Covenant then the Door to that is maybe CLOSED!

So thats WHY we are in a Pickle as to WHAT do they do NEXT?

There is a Project in the WORKS... we should Find Out more Certainly by Alien Day unless the Project gets Canned!

Its a Question of IF they are working on a Project then WHAT are they thinking of and CAN it get the Franchise back on Track?

To be Honest i dont think we have had a SOLID Script that went into Production since ALIENS. I am not a fan of when things go WRONG you just Scrub Away and come up with something else, and then when that goes WRONG you Repeat.  I always think you  can try and Rectify something but then that does take Hard Work and you run the Risk of Further Regrets....  I think regardless what they do its going to be HARD to get the Franchise back to Please most NEVER-MIND to make a Profit.

Regarding the Prequels then YES when you get a Announcement of them doing a Movie that would act as a Prequel of Sorts you are going to be Expecting TWO things for Certain.

1) Clues or Answers to how the Xenomorph came to be connected to the Space Jockey?

2) Clues and Answers to WHO the Space Jockey are and WHY they had those Eggs?

You could maybe also Expect that to Include.

A) Origins of WHERE the Xenomorph came from or Certainly Clues.

B) More information about WHO the Space Jockey are and WHAT is their Agenda.

You could EXPECT but its NOT something thats Necessary to go and have the Explanation to the Space Jockey/Derelict Event and even SHOW IT!

When it came down to the Prequels its NOT as Clear Cut as some may think, it was a Progress of Evolution and Change.

The Inception of the Idea (Alien 01 The Master Narrative) seemed to have the Emphasis on the Space Jockey and their Agenda more than the Xenomorph being the Center Stage.  This is where our Engineers Plot was Born.

When we got to Spaights Drafts that had been leaked so Alien Engineers and Alien Genesis then the PLOT was about a LOT of things that Prometheus had touched on, only that it also DEALT in more Detail with what the Engineers were doing in their Bio-Weapon Facilities.

It did Contain more Clues to ALIEN and it did Offer more about the Origins and Purpose of the Xenomorph and it introduced us to a Variety of Xenomorph related Beasts.

At some point the Powers that Be had felt that this Plot was to ALIENY and that the other Parts of the PLOT were NEW and a Change and something you could EXPAND on in Sequels.  So they Decided to TONE down those Alieny Elements and Remove a lot of DNA from the Xenomorph as then you had more Screen Time to Flesh Out the other Aspects of the PLOT.

You see they MUST have Concluded that IF they had given us Alien: Engineers and revealed the Xenomorph and its Origins then its a case of WHAT NEXT?

Once you know HOW and WHEN and WHY the Xenomorph had came to be and the Derelict Event then where do you go?

To ALIEN?  but they saw Scope to make more Connected Movies to the Prequel Idea, and so ONCE you reveal the Xenomorph and its Origins do you make more Sequels that are about the XENOMORPH?

They Felt that the other Elements would be HOW you take it Forwards as it OPENS up another Plot... the Engineers who are they, where did they Come from? Who Created them as well as to maybe introduce other HORRORS that they could have Created... rather than to go back to Xenomorphs.

So they saw that we had seen the Xenomorph over and over and maybe they could TRY something NEW and Different and so began the Changes to we got to Prometheus.

The Problem is they TONED down the Clues too Much and their was NOTHING that was Relatable to the Xenomorph... well you had the Hammerpedes but all we saw was ONE attack Milburn.   We had the Trilobite and Deacon but this Essentially would be like ALIEN if it Ended with Kanes Son shooting across the Table and Escaping and Role Credits!

In Hindsight for the MOST Part i dont think it Needed the Xenomorph it just Needed something Similar with enough Clues to make us go...AH!... so thats maybe how the Xenomorph came to be!

Slightly to much Ambiguity and no Real Xenomorph replacement was a Problem... when you look at the Number of Monster Deaths and Screen Time... then Prometheus had CUT DOWN too much...

It was Fifield who did MOST of the Killing and he was JUST nothing really Related to the Xenomorph...  THIS was NOT the Case in Spaights Drafts!

Regarding Spaights Draft it was Flawed.. I had to Question how much of a FAN was Spaights of the ALIEN Franchise and how much did he know!

Some have seen it as a Direct Prequel so its Clear as Day how Spaights Story Ended and we got to ALIEN... i would ask those to go READ his work again and WATCH the First Movie again and you will see they CANT Connect.

The GREAT thing about his Work in regards to Closure to the Xenomorph is that it was NOT as Ambiguous to the Connections, and we had our Xenomorphs but we also had TWO more Variants and you can add the Hammerpede and a much more Xeno-DNA Fifield to that..

What we should have GOT from that Draft is it seemed to show these Engineers were our Creators and they had Visited us and Evolved us.... but at some point they Decided that we was a Problem and they had a Facility they had Experimented on something they Encountered (likely the Holloway Infection) and from this they had Created 8 Varieties of Monster of which the Xenomorph was ONE...  to be USED as Tools of Destruction.

The KEY to their Horrific Creations was using their Creation Tool on some Organism that they USED its Traits to Create the Various Organisms they were Storing on the Ships.

I think that in HINDSIGHT they made TWO errors!

1) Too much was Toned down for Prometheus it Needed to have the Balance in Xenomorph like Monsters and Clues to the Creation...  Alien Engineers maybe had too much... but Prometheus had FAR not enough.... you Needed like a Middle Ground....

Then they could have Closed the Door to ALIEN.... and we could have gone where Dr Watts (Shaw) and David would go and find out more about the Engineers.

2) Made a Sequel to Prometheus where a Mission to LV-223 would go and Uncover more Clues, more Monsters closer to the Xenomorph.... so Basically a Movie that would be Based Around the stuff from Alien Engineers that NEVER made it to Prometheus.

Then they could have Closed the Door to ALIEN.... and we could have gone where Dr Watts and David would go and find out more about the Engineers.

Agree.

The films formula for me:

Alien: Engineers = xenomorph + story about xenormorph + engineers + story about engineers + strong science.

Prometheus is not different film.

Prometheus = Alien: Engineers - xenomorph - story about xenomorph - story about engineers - 50% of engineers - strong science.

So, Prometheus is just a small part of the Alien: Engineers.

Yes, the reason for (some of us) wanting a retcon is that they did a really sloppy job on the prequels (scripts). I think the franchise would have been secured if they had chosen Spaihts’ script instead of Lindelof’s. The audience expected and wanted to see the alien creature. Spaihts’ script was much scarier with plenty of time for the neomorph (and also some time for the xenomorph). But he also introduced the Engineers (who didn’t create but bred the xenomorph). If Scott had followed Spaiths’ script, the reception would have been different and he wouldn’t have needed to force these things into Alien: Covenant.

Focus also changed during the prequels. From the beginning, the focus was on the xenomorph. In Prometheus, the Engineers were the focus, and in Alien: Covenant it was David (a synthetic).

In Prometheus, they don’t tell us that the Engineers created the xenomorph but in Alien: Covenant they do tell us that David did. Apart from ruining the mystery, it’s almost impossible (given the timeline and the fact that the Derelict looked ancient and the space jockey looked like a fossilised skeleton) that David could have placed the eggs in the cargo hold of the Derelict.

"If you could Find a Pulse Riffle and take out the Xenomorphs like in ALIENS and some of the Games then you would LOOSE that Fear Factor!"

Unfounded bs. Leave a character unarmed in the face of danger or give him a weapon and let him fight back - it all depends on how you do it.

If you give a character a weapon, but leave the threat at the same level, then it is likely that you will screw up. But if you raise the ante and increase the threat in proportion to the weapon, you will succeed.

There are a lot of games, movies, ect. - where the characters are armed to the teeth and still in an inferior, vulnerable position.

On the contrary - it increases the fear factor - increases the level of threat and tells you that the weapons will not solve your problem.

To argue that the lack of weapons increases the fear factor is academic nonsense. An empty theory, which is said by people who do not know how everything works in practice.

Worse still - how far can we go with this? Claiming that smart characters who understand the situation reduce fear and threat? Is it worth praising the dullards who do not see the danger in front of their noses up close? Is Millburn or Oram playing on the fear factor? NO!

When it comes down to Scare People!

I think that apart from Cheap Jump Scares that even a Kiddy Halloween Cartoon can Pull Off... then to TRULY go and Scare people is HARD to do nowadays.

You can Gross People out with GORE but that maybe not going to Terrify them... you can Disturb them with something Shocking that would Work Better.

Imagine in Alien 3 the Alien came from Chest Bursting our Newt that would have been Shocking!  The thing that makes things Scary Really is the Fear and Worry and Concern for the Cast of a Movie... but for this you have to get the Characters Right!

You could Worry and Fight for Ripley, Newt and Hicks in ALIENS but with AVPR well No-One cared about the Lives of the Cast as the Characters just was not Developed and Poorly Executed.

Regarding Alien Isolation its Scary because it places you at the POV and you have NO Weapons etc, so you find the Xenomorph your DEAD... and so you have HIDE and its the being Found or Sporting the Xenomorph and Quickly having to Fine a place to HIDE that makes it Scary well its Panic Stations..

If you could Find a Pulse Riffle and take out the Xenomorphs like in ALIENS and some of the Games then you would LOOSE that Fear Factor!

The ONLY ways your gonna make the Xenomorph Scary is use it from the Shadows, but its more so about your Characters being Totally out of their Depth with NO WAY to really Dispatch the Horror with Ease... but for this to WORK you have to Build Up the Characters to CARE about them.

Or have some Sinister Antagonist who is Placing the Characters in Peril and using the Xenomorph to Commit Horrific Acts! 

Or you UPLIFT the Xenomorph beyond a Mindless Killing Machine or a Space Ant!   so it becomes Sinister, Tormenting!

But again those will ONLY work if you can CARE about the Characters.

"You have to understand that what bored the fan might be a breath of fresh air for the casual viewer"

I think LETO thats a Good Point, the Die Hard Fans may have wants and likes and so are Disappointed with some Alien Movies and the Directions they took.

The Real Die Hard Fans do only make a SMALL % of the Box Office, and so Marketing something that would PULL them in is maybe how you have to do it... but i would say that Alien Covenant was kind of just that!

I think ninXeno426 hits the NAIL on the Head... well Miss Vickers more so... "a King has his Reign... then he Dies"

Some Franchises have their RUN.... a Good Run, but then the more you go back to it then the Interest goes away!  The Terminator Franchise may still make Money from Merchandise, Games and Comics but THEATRICALLY its a Gamble... i think the ALIEN Franchise has hit that same WALL.

We have seen some Reboots that just Failed to Live Up to the Originals..... they are always going to be Compared to the Originals.

Robocop, Total Recall, Nightmare on Elm Street... they did not give that Nostalgic Feeling and Failed to be as BIG a HIT as the Originals with a New Generation.. and so NONE of these will get a Sequel!

But to be fair i dont think any of them was BAD, yes they was NOT as Good as the Original but thats always going to be the Case!

Go and Remake ALIEN and you will be Hard Pushed to better the Original well as far as HOW people would accept it.

sometimes you do manage to SUCCEED the Planet of the Apes Reboot was Very Good and a Success... yet the First Attempt in 2001 never got a Sequel it was deemed to not be worthy of ONE, yet it was NOT a Bad Movie.

The IT remake was also a Success but again if they made a IT Part 3 and Part 4 they run the Risk of going to FAR and it NOT doing as well.

Halloween 2018 was Decent, but if they Churn out a few Sequels to that i doubt it can Maintain the Success.

Threes a Crowd... and so sometimes once you have made 2-3 Movies in a Franchise you then Leave it alone!  As it Mostly goes down HILL after that.

Back to the Future Reboot anyone?  That could be a Cash Grab and could make Money but then it could also be a FLOP and Tarnish the Originals...   Or maybe a Back to the Future Part 4 and bring the Gang back... again it would take something Special to do Justice to the Originals and so your BEST to leave it alone.

Maybe its a case of doing something NEW.... sometimes that works... AVATAR a Example.

Which i think its WHAT they was doing with the Prequels, especially Prometheus... something NEW that is SET in the same Universe that would STEER AWAY from ALIEN and i think Ridley Scott was right.... HOWEVER.. when you kind of make a Prequel which it was as it Covered the Space Jockey... you as with any kind of Prequel/Origin Story you are at the RISK of NOT living to the Expectations of all the Fans.

"I am surprised by the lack of ingenuity here. We know practically nothing about the engineers. There are limitless possibilities"

I think that was NOT the case with Ridley Scott and where he seemed to want to take us with a Prometheus Sequel, but such a PLOT is BOLD but with so much Potential its HARD to work out on HOW your going to expand it which is WHY they likely Found it Hard to come up with a Draft they was Pleased with...

Which in PART lead to a Change from Steering Away from ALIEN to actually making a Set of Movies that will BRING US BACK to ALIEN and give us the Answers to ALIEN and the Xenomorph...   But we know that NEVER worked out well.

So NOW they are in a Pickle and it seems they wish to ABANDON the Prequels... but its a Good Question to see if they have any Ingenuity if its a case of we NEED to bring back Ripley and Continue with the Xenomorph as we had seen in the Quadilogy then i think that shows Desperation and Lack of Imagination and Risk!

But you could say the Prequels where a attempt at something Different and Curve-balls and a RISK that never paid off.

To answer your Comment Black Ant...

I agree we should TRY some Ingenuity which is what i would do, and with the Idea i proposed would be as such, while the First Adventure would leave some OPEN ENDED Clues it would leave it for Sequels to then Elaborate on them and Answer them.

You see here is what i was thinking there seemed to NOT be so much Ingenuity  with the Quadilogy apart from ALIEN R as it pushed the idea of Hybrids, of what Experimenting on the Xenomorph DNA could lead to.

But the Movie had its Critics and it was Flawed... so they HIT a Wall as far as thinking HOW do we Continue.. we did have Ridley Scott and James Cameron thinking about doing a ALIEN Project...  both wanting to go to the Xenomorph Homeworld, with RS more looking at WHO would have made the Xenomorph and WHY....

But we got AVP and then AVPR which kind of Tarnished the Xenomorph.

So when they was looking at HOW to revisit the Franchise at First it seemed like some Ideas of a Sequel to Aliens was in Mind (maybe not a Direct One) but then they decided to go about with a Prequel, which in Part would Explore the Origins of the Xenomorph and WHO was the Space Jockey and WHY did they have those Eggs.

The MAIN Element of this Idea was our Space Jockey would be Giant Humanoids who go around and Evolve/Create Life and played a Part in our Creation/Evolution... our Engineers were BORN.

When you TRY and do a Origins Story you are ALWAYS going to NOT give everyone the Answers they Expected or wanted, this was always going to be the Poisoned Chalice of showing us WHERE the Xenomorph came from and WHO the Space Jockey was.

The Prequel idea had Changed and Evolved and we got Prometheus that decided to TONE down the Xenomorph Connections and attempt to offer a New Spin Off Franchise that would STEER away from the Xenomorph and Alien and be more about the Engineers and their Background Story and Connection to us and Creation..

This however is where it Divided the Fanbase..

*Some where not pleased with the Space Jockey being 8ft Bald/Albino Humanoids

*Disappointed with the Aesthetic and Scale differences to the Space Jockey and Derelict.

*Disappointed we Never saw the Xenomorph or its Origins Explained, or Certainly we had nothing that Connected too close.

*Some had FELT that the Xenomorph should have a HIGH place in the Franchise, and so it being a Engineered Creation did-not sit well.... as they rather and Interpreted that surely the Xenomorph should be WHAT the Engineers had Discovered and gained their Technology and Black Goo from.

HOWEVER... the Prequels had opened up the Franchise, we have these Engineers and can ask to HOW MANY places have they been? How Many Worlds, Races and then when we look at LV-223 we ask HOW MANY kind of Horror came from this Place.

As well as we could ask... WHO Created them... was their something that Provided the Basis for their Experiments on LV-223 and where did the Black Goo come from!

When we got Alien Covenant then while it introduced the Xenomorph Origins in a way that SHOCKED and Disappointed Most of the Fanbase... we seemed to NOT be going too Discover more of the Points i made above regarding the Potential a Prometheus Sequel could have gone!

I think while the Disappointment of Alien Covenant has led them to think a Continuation or the Prequels are BEST to be Ignored... i think there was so much Potential to what they tried to do...

So i think that going back to the Franchise and going "ok Guys lets go back to the Derelict get some Eggs" to me shows a LACK of Ingenuity.........

UNLESS they show us a Different Cargo Hold with a Different Variant had remained in tact after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope or that the Eggs are Defective due to Radiation and so they do Experiments to try and Obtain a Strain from them that can give them the Original while we see some Abominations on the way.

The Alien Red Harvest (Alien V) Project seemed to show this and i think that could WORK... but you DONT have to included Ripley!

But for me i think you cant revolve around the Xenomorphs.

I am sure that some Fans wanted..

*To see more about the Engineers

*To wonder WHO Created them (Maybe the Space Jockey is Different).

*Maybe the Xenomorph (or some Related Ancestor) was the Basis for LV-223 and the Black Goo.

And with my idea it would leave Clues Open so  that a Sequel you could Explore any ONE of a few of the above. As i think thats the way you have to Expand beyond the Classic Xenomorph.

Or you have to go to either Experiment/Evolve them or you come to a World where they have Evolved/Changed.  And Uplift them beyond Space Ants

First i would like to Mention about the Pandemic, as indeed this has had a Effect on Movie Production and even Movies that are Complete in Terms of showing them at the BOX OFFICE it has caused Studios to DELAY their Movies and the Latest James Bond Movie is a Prime Example.  So Streaming or Purchase via Cable TV Provider could be the way to do things at Present.

HOWEVER... when it comes down to ALIEN Project then i think the Earliest we would see any such thing would be Fall 2021 and thats Unlikely and so IF they are going to Produce another Movie i think by the TIME its ready to hit the Screens the Pandemic should be Largely under control.

Regarding any Project we have had Ridley Scott come out and Confirm that a Project is in the Works but it is UNLIKELY to Connect/Continue with what the Prequels had done....  some had Jumped on this as that means Ridley Scott is involved in a NEW MOVIE but all it means is that DISNEY are working on a Movie they have Plans to make ONE but it will likely NOT continue with the Prequels or Connect to them.

Quite what DISNEY are planning we cant be SURE... i guess Time will tell... but they have a LOT of thinking to do (or NOT if its a Bring back Ripley) as they have to THINK about what went WRONG with the Prequels and WHAT can they do if they want another ALIEN Movie.

I am Concerned with how Disney would approach it and Fear for either a Complete Reboot... with a CGI Ripley, or a Bring back Ripley for a NEW would be Aliens Sequel and that it will be just like a Aliens meets Alien R but at a PG-13

The Problem i have with a bring back Ripley is you then ANCHOR the Franchise to be about HER... what do you do after a Alternative Alien 3, do they make a Trilogy with Ripley and if so do we Encounter the same kind of Xenomorph over and over...

You kind of would be at the Mercy of Miss Weaver then, because such a Projects would surely NEED you to cast her, even if its for Voice Overs...  Just because they may feel the Prequels have NOT worked out and that Dr Shaw and Daniels have NOT quite replaced the Beloved Ripley means you have to PANIC and go and Resort to bringing her back!

The other Concern when you are going to Reboot or Retcon stuff is it OPENS the Door to Disney basically just Rebooting and Retconing over and over and over every time something does-not go to PLAN.  (or maybe NOT as i feel if the Next 1-2 Movies are not Big Successes i feel they would ABANDON the Franchise Theatrically).

Personal opinions aside, Isolation is fine proof that a small intimantley scaled horror approach works. And horror is perhaps the only genre with box office and especially streaming appeal that isn't a damn super hero movie. An epic apocalyptic Alien story is best reserved for comics where they're quite common. I stand by my opinion that upping the scale, scope, and budget of Alien is not ideal for a franchise that hasn't been relevant at the box office since 1986. I've come to embrace the idea of smaller horror film sent to Hulu or elsewhere is a better idea. 

tbh, I never thought Isolation was scary. I find AvP2 more scary game. And this is a shooter, action game where you have a weapon and you kill aliens in large numbers.

I should have mentioned this over on my topic, but it seems as of today Noah Hawley is still talking about his would be FX series that was killed due to the fox purchase. So that's something...

As for your pitches...no thanks I'll pass. Those are so far removed from Alien I wonder why they'd exist in the first place. Like when Ridley planned on a Ripley movie minus the Alien. Those ideas remind me of the Star Trek reboots: movies purposely engineered for new audiences and new audiences only. I recall 2009 Star Trek's advertising tag went something like "This isn't your Dad's Star Trek". I don't understand the point of rebooting franchises with the intention of appealing to new comers, while alienating the old fan base almost on purpose. There needs to be a middle ground. You need to make sure you respect the old fan base while making sure something about it attracts new fans. This is something Disney's Star Wars sequels and the Star Trek reboots failed miserably at.

I doubt anyone over their 20s living in the 21st century will in any way be scared of the monster on the screen.

I believe Alien Isolation would like to disagree with you. The beast still has power to terrify. If Michael Myers and Pennywise still can after all these years then so can the Alien.

DK,

If I did not know better I would ask where is your time machine and at which studio do you work.

You must have been on the set of TENET when they were filming and overheard these plans for the Alien franchise.

It is reasonable to assume that it will be several years before real vaccines are available and that the theater experience is finished. However, this does not mean that they throw negative air pressure in the theaters and suddenly everyone is able to go back to them. This is also a possibility. You cannot breath something if the air flow is going straight up and never has a chance to land on you. Throw in some intense UVC lights for sterilization and every theater with the new protocols might be back in business.

Ozone generators are 100% effective at killing the virus as well...close the doors to the auditorium for 30 minutes. Then let the entire space fill with so many ppm of ozone and it is very clean of almost all pathogens. Kick on the negative air pressure and evacuate the ozone very quickly.

Never say never just yet is all I am saying. But I will agree as of right now it looks like streaming will win out anyway and that we should all prepare for the stream experience.

I am surprised by the lack of ingenuity here. We know practically nothing about the engineers. There are limitless possibilities about what, ultimately why, and what the new Alien Franchise could all be about in terms of plot.

I am definitely done with Mrs. Weaver....she had a great run. I want to see much bigger and better scarier things.

This lack of imagination is concerning. The right movies done creates an entirely new market again for these films. Maybe not at the level of profitability of DC/Marvel nonsense; but, real money that cannot be so easily ignored.

Yes a streaming pilot to test everything is the solid way to go during these uncertain financial times.

Personally when 100 inch OLED TV's are at about the 1200 price point I would never go to the theater again, even if it was more than safe. Theaters are loud, dirty, and uncivil in general. 

We also forget that outdoor theaters may see a golden revival...Never say never just yet.

Getting pretty deep in the weeds here and there are a lot of good points from everybody.

Personally, I would forget about the notion of the cinema. Streaming is the way to go. Not its fault, but it should be considered that the latest GvK movie is going straight to streaming pretty much due to our global situation. It doesn't seem practical to make a movie intended for the cinema right now imo.

Where do we go with the Alien franchise? Forward with a focus on Engineers, the Xenomorph, Synths or any combination. The history and mythos is baked in. It should push forward with the understanding that the viewer is aware of the history while making it palatable to new comers. Case in point- I love the original West World movie but never watched the series. I know people who watched the series but never saw the original movie. 

It's a risk financially, but they should give it a chance. A season of streaming would probably be less of a risk than a full on movie intended for the big screen that is shut down due to a pandemic. 

I think I would prefer retcon. Let Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection be dreams (nightmares). Let Ripley wake up from two nightmares as an old woman, still having night terrors from what she had experienced on the Nostromo and LV-426. As she dreams, we get flashbacks from Fiorina 161 and USM Auriga.

What occurred in Alien and Aliens is the real thing. LV-426 is where everything begins and the centre of the Alien Universe (although, of course, there is a background far beyond Calpamos). On LV-426 the mystery begins: the Derelict, the Space Jockey and the eggs.

Old, Ripley, Hicks, and Newt return (together with Colonial Marines and an android) to LV-426, perhaps to make sure there is nothing left. They investigate the ruins of Hadley’s Hope and the Derelict.

While we’re at it, why not retcon the prequels as well? Let the gang travel to LV-223 and find Shaw in hypersleep (dreaming about Planet 4). Beside her are the scattered remains of David, perhaps ripped to pieces by the Deacon?

Together they all start to investigate the other pyramids on LV-223. They find horrible truths from the past and they decide to nuke both LV-223 and LV-426. But . . .

@BlackAnt

You did Put me on the SPOT to Answer what would i do?

I would try and Renew the Franchise, i am not sure my IDEA would Please everyone though!

I have a rough idea, one that i could explore in Multiple Ways but the BASIC IDEA would be in the Future so maybe its After 2179 or maybe its Close to it?

But Certainly would be to a WORLD that is FAR away.

A World that is either Very Earth like to a degree, or maybe not so.... something that sits between a Planet 4 and LV-223.

A World that upon Close Inspection has a Buried Ancient City or at least a Few Buildings/Pyramids.

The Explorers will Discover some Bodies of Humanoids, and maybe some are TALL?  They Discover Ancient Ruins and Temples.

But this World would also have some Organism.... like a Spore a Egg something similar to what we see in ALIEN but a bit Different, we have the same Life Cycle.. so a Face Hugger but a bit Different, a BURSTER Stage and then Adult and again a bit Different but DONT steer to FAR away.

Maybe you can have another Organism, some other kind of Spore/Egg that lashes out at a Host and Directly Infects them (No Face Hugger) and maybe the Host has no Chest Burster but Mutates into a Horror?

So you have something or TWO things that Connect with ALIEN and Prometheus... you have it Ambiguous a bit so Fans are Drawn to conclude either.

1) This Place is maybe where the Progenitor to LV-223 and Xenomorph came from and that some Eggs/Spores had been taken away.

2)This Place is maybe where some Eggs had been deployed had the Creator of the Eggs in ALIEN made different Variants or had these Eggs/Spores on this WORLD had Evolved Different from a Initial Original Egg Infestation

3) This Place had been Bombarded by the Bio-Weapon (Black Goo) in the Past and Horrors remain...

You leave it so you cant Conclusively come to a Conclusion but where a Sequel can Provide the answers and Connection to LV-223/LV-426

The Survivors merely came Across a Unexpected Horror.... but the Aftermath you could see other Factions Alerted to Check it out.

Some Interesting Points....

Indeed when you have Loads of Special Effects and Explosions its something to SHOW OFF in a Trailer to get people to go WOW... COOL! and Hook them in!

I tried to watch AVATAR again and i could NOT get into it, and while it has a LOT of Special Effects some of it looks FAKE, not Natural and more like a Pixar Animation. It still looked like t Created a Interesting World and it did VERY WELL at the Box Office.

Prometheus i felt was Beautiful and Visually i felt the Disappointments were Weyland and Fifield Make Up/Effects.

I think Prometheus had done well due to Anticipation it had been so LONG since a ALIEN MOVIE and it seemed to indicate we are going to get some Answers...  The Trailers seemed to indicate there may be more ACTION than we actually got.  I think when we look at the Marketing and Ridley Scott comments then they HOOKED the Fans in to maybe Expect more than they GOT.

I think Alien Covenant was a Puzzle to how Poor it did, the Trailers seemed to Indicate Action and our Xenomorph back as well as the Neomorph, the Trailers did-not indicate that the Movie would be Mainly about David and that he Created the Xenomorph and that we would DISCOVER nothing much about the Engineers or see them.

So i think the Initial Box Office Numbers before Word of Mouth were LESS than i expected.

I think with the Predator those who kept a look out would have noted the Director saying they wanted to add some Humor, and we saw some GOOFY bits in the Trailers that could make Fans think OH DEAR!   And the Trailers did-not miss-lead as it was a GOOF-FEST!

Did the Reputation of the Director amount for the Disappointment, if they had someone else and the Trailer seemed more Serious and they SPENT more to bring in Schwarzenegger..... would it had done MUCH BETTER?

Sometimes maybe the Fans just are NOT as interested in some Franchises... we have seen some Reboots that FAILED to do well DESPITE not really being that BAD.... Robocop and Total Recall.... the Nostalgia was not enough to make as much $$$ as expected i think Fans just saw it as a CHANGE and REBOOT and so would not Accept it to be the Nostalgic Original.

So maybe you could think... BIG BUDGET on Effects, bring back RIPLEY and bring back Cameron as Director and we have a Sure HIT!

Thats NOT always the Case... and Terminator Dark Fate is a Great Example.... even though it had the Old Cast (Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger) and James Cameron involved.

It could be that the ALIEN Franchise is JUST not going to Generate enough of a Interest to make a 300% Return on the Budget.... 

If we do indeed get another ALIEN Movie then we may see this Proven... but Hopefully NOT... (be NICE to see a Success).

Seems to make MONEY at the Box Office is NOT as easy as before... you have Certain Franchises that seem to be able to RAKE IT IN..... but then others Fail!

It will be Interesting to see HOW WELL the Next Ghost Busters will do... or will it FLOP?   The same goes for say the New TOP GUN!

Time will TELL.

Back to the OT..

*The Prequel Continuation is Tricky as they have Written themselves into a Corner and have a Juggling Act to please the Fans and Rectify the Dislikes of Alien Covenant, and i think Fans would expect to see ONE Movie to get us to our Answers... so its just  RISKY Path to take.

*Bring back Ripley... i dont think you need to, because to do so you have to Remove some Movies as Dreams etc. If you PIN your Hopes on bringing Ripley back and maybe others then you kind of have all your Cards on the Table and if your ACE Card does-not work then you kind of BURY the Franchise.

*Reboot.... i dont think you need to go and like lets REMAKE the whole Franchise again...

So you have this SHIP with its EGG Cargo!

Do we stick with the IDEA that the Derelict is the ONLY one that had those Eggs or Similar, was it JUST the One Ship to carry out its Mission?  Putting ALL of your EGGS into ONE Basket?

Was LV-223 the ONLY such Outpost with such Horrors in the Galaxy?  If this is the CASE then has any of these Horrors been UNLEASHED on a World other than Planet 4?

What was the STARTING POINT to LV-223 and the Black Goo and how we see it can Create Organisms that have a Resemblance to the Xenomorph.....  where did this STARTING POINT come from?

So there are Avenues to take us....

I am NOT sure they would ever take us to any Place that is Connected to the Prequels... NO LV-223, No Planet 4 or Origae-6

I hope they have more IMAGINATION than to go and take us back to LV-426 and the Derelict Post 2179!  But such a Plot could WORK.... Certainly better than to REBOOT or RETCON anything.... aka ALIEN V

BlackAnt

Thinking over your words - the main fulcrum here is the director.

Cameron (Avatar, Aliens) is an excellent sc-fi director.

Shane black (The Predator) is, uh, well... director of comedies about cops?

Ridley is also good director, but he changes his mind unnecessarily often. If he doesn't like something, then he rewrites the material. But it often happens that the rewritten parts don't match the original ones. The result is porridge.

Continuing the conversation, what do you think - does the director's name influence the film's success? Not his skills and experience, but just his name? Could it be that the skills are good, but the viewer will say: "this director again? No thanks!"?

This topic is starting to make me want to drink again.

Let us all be rational and use our intellect of course.

So for example, the latest Predator movie had good special effects shots. Highly technical and showed promise. There was very interesting special effects that looked very real and you would think would entertain the audience. NO! the movie as a whole was a terrible commercial flop.

So we must know why, exactly why? These questions are numerous and complex. Where the characters interesting enough or could the audience relate to them....was the timing of the movie boring over all?

Example number two, Avatar, has Sigourney Weaver in it as non primary character; however, of note here, movie is highly technical in all aspects of every shot!!! Every part of the movie is new technical effects shot. Highest grossing movie of all time. 

So we need to find out why not enough fails....we know that enough of the right special effects make more than a billion....movie after movie with the right cast, action, special effects this is what audience craves.

So no more nonsense...we discuss this or not discuss this. 

The reason Prometheus was not more sucessful is because of some bad special effects, movie is not scary, it is for children, movie has bad plot, movie is waste of time for many viewers, and in my opinion the movie had to many rewrites with big budget cuts...the rest is history.

However, with Prometheus I still say certain parts of the film shot, directed through RS genius is something never scene before....example MAP ROOM! VERY GOOD!!!, The dream sequence very good! The engineer all very good! The holograph building new worlds, amazing. But over all the film was terrible. Still the film earns half a billion dollars. 

Once again Prometheus many sequential highly technical special effects shots....entire film is larger special effects shots...so bad story, bad plot, bad characters and other things killed more profitability.

No more lazy thinking here....the point is these are all new characters that have nothing to do with Mrs. Weaver....she gone out done...she had very good run...her time is over permanently....those days are gone.

Time to put on your big boy pants and think! What new characters will work....if James Chameron can do it with RS flunk out Mrs. Weaver and make highest grossing film then we are all missing most important points of conversation.

No more nonsense...we know what works. We know what does not work. So in no way do we repeat again what does not work no matter how tempting. We follow new template and move forward...always forward. 

I doubt anyone over their 20s living in the 21st century will in any way be scared of the monster on the screen.

If you don't want popcorn action - how about adventures? Something like cosmic Indiana Jones or Tomb Rider.

Elizabeth Shaw and the cursed egg.

David: The mystery of the land of the Gods.

Ripley and the biomchanical kingdom.

My rant there is precisely why I created this topic lol. Taking Alien to streaming, be it movie or series, can allow for smaller weirder and darker stories to exist. I quite like what little Noah Hawley was able to tell us about his Alien series for FX. It was killed by Disney's Fox purchase.

Leto I'll continue to respectfully disagree. Going bigger and action packed doesn't guarantee success. Even Star Wars is having a hard time maintaining relevance, and were it not for The Mandalorian (probably the best Star Wars made in my almost 31 years) I'd say Star Wars would be dead. Alien isn't Star Wars levels of popular. It's just unwise to make a  large scale film when audiences will likely shrug it off and see Marvel, DC, or Fast and Furious. 

To justify making a big budget Alien Film, it'd have to make IT numbers (over $700 million world wide) or JOKER numbers (over a billion dollars).Both of those had $50 million budgets and Joker was quite the gamble and only ok'd by it's small for comic book movie budget,WB had no faith in this small character based approach. And IT Chapter 2 had a drastic drop from it's predecessor at the box office making about 300 million less. Those were two proven properties. Alien's box office days are behind it. Again back on discord I was trying to tell some of those guys that Alien has always been more niche than anything after they said Covenant killed any box office for the series. While that's partially true...it's worth noting Alien 3, Resurrection, both AVP's and Prometheus were all considered financial disappointments as well. 

I'm going to use Terminator as my poster boy here. The past 4 films have all had huge budgets. Each film was less successful than the last. Dark Fate fell so hard at the box office that it guaranteed we won't see Terminator any time soon. Terminator has almost consistently been more successful than Alien and is dead now. Even what's considered the worst Terminator, Genisys, was more successful than the highest grossing Alien which is Prometheus. If we can't get audiences to see Terminator and even Star Wars...then a big budget Alien is an even harder sell.

My opinion is Alien goes smaller in the vein of Halloween 2018. It'd be Better for the series. Give audiences a reason to be scared again. If they want generic action they can go see Marvel or Fast and Furious.

Agreed with that dk. Alien is exhausted mostly. I'm probably among the few who enjoyed Covenant for what it was but admit it wasn't the best direction for the series.

@Hox

The Ass Burster!

Imagine it..... "oh i should not have had that Curry Last Night"    You have someone hearing noises from the Toilet, "are you ok in there?"  No Answer and they Break the Door Down as a Little Ass Buster then Pops out the LOO and Scurries Off lol

But on a Serious Note i think that YES we have seen Quite a LOT, especially if you look beyond the Movies.

Ridley Scott was Correct when he had said there is ONLY so much Face Hugging, Chest Bursting and Snarling you can do.  And he was AHEAD of the Curve with Prometheus.

But to take us away from a Comparable Horror to the Xenomorph, and to put the Emphasis on Creation and Rebellion and in Context to David was STEERING to FAR from ALIEN... but the Prequels was NOT supposed to be a ALIEN Franchise but a Spin Off.

Having seen the Franchise... if they had Continued with ALIEN V a Sequel to Alien R with Ripley 8 instead of making AVP then we have to ask WOULD IT have Changed things?

I think whats NEEDED is a ALIEN MOVIE and so you have to get back to some Basics... but also Change things a little.

When we look at the Franchise (Quadilogy) its the First Movie that had that Mystery and Enigma... but maybe in HINDSIGHT this is something that should have REMAINED a Mystery?

I think that Prometheus had opened up the Franchise... it just Needed to have and include something more Relatable to the Xenomorph but then also to EXPAND to something more Lovecraftian!

I think we can SET UP a Movie that can Expand back to those.  I think you DONT have to keep going back to LV-426 and i am NOT sure that going to LV-223 is wise in regards to Conflict.

There was a Horrific Nightmare on LV-426 and we know the Engineers had been Messing About with related Horrors on LV-223.

But does this mean such HORRORS only got as FAR as LV-426, LV-223 and Planet 4?  The Galaxy is Larger than the Radius from Earth the current Franchise was SET IN....

Regardless if its Generic Eggs, Alternative Eggs, Black Goo or WHAT did the Black Goo come from.....  thats a LOT of Cosmic Horror that does-not have to be Confined to like 40-50LY from Earth ;)

The Further into the Future, the Further we can Explore and the More Chance we STUMBLE upon something we should NOT have and the Chance we could AWAKEN something Very Old and Dangerous!

And NO that does-not have to be Generic Eggs!