Comments (Page 126)

Just to say guys, if some or most of my replies and such sound 'off', I am dealing with badly warped eyeglasses. One eye is trying to handle long focus and the other is trying to do short-focus--at the same time.

I think you can all imagine how disorienting, and painful this is.

New glasses are ordered--but 2 weeks to arrive due to my prescription being so severe they had to special-order the lens blanks.

I had hoped to get them in a day, but no luck.

So, I am just coping best-possible, can't read much apart from a few sentences here and there, and thinking through this migraine is barely-possible.

Sorry if I've been off-key, but now you all know the 'why'.

Also, is anyone else having issues with their signatures not showing up??

I don't think there was any kind of plan, other than a little rough draft with ideas for Prometheus 2. If not for Blomkamp's film on the horizon, Ridley would have kept stalling for time until FOX was bought by Disney and then we wouldn't have gotten a Prometheus sequel at all.

I do not argue - maybe Scott was thinking about Prometheus 2, maybe he had some ideas, but it is obvious that he was not going to make a sequel to Prometheus in at least another 10 years.

>>>could be that those Prometheus Engineers are NOT too Different to David.

It looks like they found their one perfection in Alien, as did David. And they also harbored a grudge against humanity. But instead of ovomorphs, they used Black Goo.

"Alien: Engineers by Jon Spaihts and even for Prometheus by Damon Lindelof"

Certainly i think that a 3rd Rework that kind of Merges some Elements of BOTH of those Drafts would have been the Best Way to go Forwards....   if you look at what was Removed from Alien Engineers, then i think they needed to ADD a little of it back...

"Yeah, the Planet 4 ones were not that impressive but they could have fixed that by showing that there were different kinds of Engineers. More bio-mechanical things and more like those in Prometheus."

I think i can see some of the Disappointment, but the way i am Drawn to look at it in LIGHT of some of the Comments by RS both prior to AC and after... could be that those Prometheus Engineers are NOT too Different to David.

A Engineered Sub-Creation to Serve a Function.

But Alas.

"it seemed that Prometheus 2 was to be more about our creation and Shaw’s search for answers"

It could have gone that way, with Prometheus then you had a Number of Ways to have Continued.

The Basis of Dr Shaws wishes for Answers is that she Clutches to her Faith that her GOD would surely have NOT tried to KILL us.  She is Holding on to the Notion that maybe their is someone who Created the Engineers who would be more Fitting to her Faith.

Regardless of what she Discovers she wants to KNOW as to WHY they would Create us, and then DESTROY us....

But those Answers are likely already there in Prometheus.

I think the Bigger thing to have looked at is that its UNLIKELY that we was Unique, that we was the ONLY such Creation of the Engineers.   And so we maybe would NEVER had been Viewed and Cherished by our Creators as Dr Shaws Faith would have her Gods view about us.

When looking at the SET-UP it would appear that the beings they would have Discovered would NOT have been VERY kind to us, well they would from our POV be seen as NOT so Benevolent.   The things to Remember are that David has Witnessed that our Creators are Mortal and have as much Care for us as we do for David.  He may likely had seen they Possess Power and Technology and the Ability to Create but all of this is WASTED by them.

Key points is that RS saw those in Prometheus as Fallen, but also giving Indication that they are NOT the Top of the Creation Chain.   That also THEY would Discover some beings who are NOT GODS who again are FAR from Benevolent.

And also KEY points in the SET-UP was that ONCE we have David back in ONE piece then he becomes Dangerous and that he would be BRINGING HELL with him.

Other things to Consider is that Dr Shaw has NOTHING!  There is NOTHING for her to go back HOME too.  If she could CREATE and so have Children then she may have been Swayed to go Home.

She wants to go to where the Engineers came from for her ANSWERS... even if this means her DEATH!

David on the other hand is Finally Free, he is NOT shackled to Serve anymore, and he would likely want to LIVE so he can Live out his Potential that he maybe Felt he could NOT have with Weyland around.

Survival is maybe what David wants, and it would be Likely that he would KNOW their is the RISK that the Engineers would NOT be some Welcoming......  so it was LIKELY he was going to PULL THE TRIGGER on them anyway.

We cant be 100% sure what we would have got, we would need to see some of Paglens Drafts and the Green Rewrites to get a Idea of WHERE a Prometheus 2 was going before FOX had wanted to bring in the Xenomorph and make a Direct Prequel to ALIEN as opposed to STEER AWAY as First intended in 2012-2014

"I would rather have nothing compared to getting another disappointment"

I think thats Correct, i think while we GOT no NEWS on ALIEN DAY 2019 this was because there was NO real Movie in the Works and so Indeed if you HAVE NOT got the Right Story and IF you are Concerned to Continue with the Prequels would give you No Reward... then Disney would NOT just make a ALIEN Movie or Announce one just for the Sake of it.  Also you dont want to get Fans hopes up unless something is 100% in the Works.

@Leto

I think Canon should come down to Personal Choice and i think when Blomkamp had touted his Project they had said that it would OFFER a Fork in the Road.

We dont know IF or HOW he would have done that (would he had used Cryo-Dream plot).   But if his ALIEN V had been made and then we got a ALIEN 6 then i think the idea as far as Canon would be that when we get to the END of ALIENS then there would be TWO Alternative Routes for Sequels.

So Fans could either like both or CHOOSE which they wish to Accept.  I Personally dont think you need to do any of this, i think that Ripley had her Journey and so you can go and GIVE us a ALIEN Movie that is NOT Connected to her.

The Prequels  are a Bad Dream for some Fans, i think while there was Potential i think they are at a STICKING POINT now with as FAR as how to Continue.... and so i think what Happens to the Covenant and David could remain a Mystery or more likely in the Context of the ALIEN V then these Prequels could be IGNORED.

And so maybe HINTS could be given to a Different Xenomorph Origin or maybe the WHOLE idea of the Xenomorpm Origins and the SPACE JOCKEY would be just IGNORED and kept a Mystery within Context to any kind of RETCON which is what i think ALIEN V will likely be.

David and Walter had a quite a Fair Share of Involvement and Input on a lot of the Franchise, but with this ALIEN V Project it seems likely that they would have a MAJORITY of the Say on it..... UNLESS its Plot etc is something that Disney are NOT so pleased with or think WONT make Money then the BUCK $ stops with them.

I think regarding the Direction  (assuming the Movie that is in the works is the Hill/Giler Project) it does seem that this IDEA is Anchored on Ripley and so with No Miss Weaver then a LOT of the idea would have to be RE-WRITTEN.

I think that Certainly we would see Alien 3 and Alien R removed as merely a Dream...  The Prequels i think would just be Ignored as if they NEVER Happened.

Maybe i am reading to much into this Quote on the Draft Cover though "All that we see or seem. Is but a dream within a dream"

Which could indicate that we could be shown something that would Question our View (Ripleys) about WHAT is Reality and what is Illusion (Dream).

A Dream within a Dream could but this is just Wild Speculation, but it could indicate that Ripley is Dreaming of the Events of ONE of the Movies and in her Dream she has another Dream which is where Alien 3 and Alien R occur.

So WHAT IF they also indicate that EVERYTHING from after the END of ALIEN is a Dream?

I think that would be a Mistake because to have ALIENS down as a Dream and so the Characters and Queen are just a Figment of Ripleys mere Imagination would be something that would UPSET the Fanbase (well a High %) as the Concept of David as the Creator of the Xenomorph.

A Problem that comes from this kind of Dream Angle is HOW do they deal with HOW our Miss Weaver has Aged since ALIEN and ALIENS.

You would ASSUME in Context to the Cryo-sleep Technology that for her too look like she has aged 20-30 Years we have to ASSUME she would have to be in Cryo-sleep for MUCH MUCH Longer than 40-50 Years.

So maybe a Large Portion of the Movie would be SET some 20-30 Years after she is Rescued from the Narcissus or the Sulaco.

I dont think they would throw a CURVE-BALL to reveal a 60 Year Old Ripley is being Tested on with some Device to IMPLANT a Alternative Reality Dreams and so all the EVENTS of the Franchise are  Dreams.  Because this would make the Xenomorph as just a Illusion.

Thoughts_Dreams

Eh. I know why Ridley removed many scenes from Prometheus - for runtime, to make the movie shorter> show more sessions> sell more tickets per day.

Why did we get a generic forest in AC? For the same reason - lack of money.

Roger G

>>>Scott's potential is unsurpassed, just give him a good idea and script and he'll make you jump out of your seat

He had good ideas and scripts for Alien: Engineers by Jon Spaihts and even for Prometheus by Damon Lindelof. But in the end he abandoned the first and even turned the second into a mess. A beautiful and inspiring mess. But still a mess.

Ridley is a great director, but he should never come close to scripting and stories. Never. Submit ideas - yes. It is the director's responsibility. But shouldn't try to change the already written story for some ideas. There's a screenwriter for the story.

>>>I think they should go with a WY story.

Only as a spinn-off tv-show. The very idea that the next 5 years will be spent on a faceless film about the intrigue of suits is completely depressing. Perhaps even the most die-hard fans will leave after three decades of disappointment: A3 & AR in 90's, AvP & AvPR 10's, P&AC in 10's. If the fourth decade comes with a boring wy-suits experiment - well, the end.

But, dk, don't rush to argue with me! I'm only talking about the format of a feature film. Maybe a TV show about costumes is a good idea.

--

>>>RS was HOPEFUL he could Continue with his STORY

This is another thing that we can forget about. Ridley is a busy man. He has a big film schedule. If Disney wants to make (suddenly) a new Alien film, should they wait for Scott to complete all other business? It looks like Ridley is taking his time himself. A similar situation was with Prometheus 2/Covenant. Ridley only started filming AC when Blomkamp's film appeared on the horizon. Which could put his own film at risk. That is why the Covenant turned out like this. Scott had to make this film, otherwise he would have missed out on the franchise. But the most important question: should the FOX / Disney to wait for him? Ridley hasn't been interested in a new movie for about 30 years!

>>>new power-players outside of WY let’s say.

YES! I don't understand why people are stuck with WY. Alien: Isolation took the right step with Seegson. WY is all about bioweapons. It's boring and irrelevant. Bring in a new pharmaceutical mega-corporation chasing the medical potential of the xenomorph and the technology of engineers. THIS IS RELEVANT!

The era of conspiracy, bioweapons and suits ended with X-Files.

I think that if you want to catch people’s interest you got to get it right from the beginning. With the prequels being as underwhelming as they are I guess that it isn’t surprising that we have the situation that we have. The problem is that they have both had mostly poorly executed characters and have been about a mad robot. Obviously I repeat myself but if I say that I don’t like something or why a lot of people disagree with something in general I got to give an explanation why that might be.

"We know the Prequels had NOT been to everyone's Cup of Tea."

Tea or coffee depends on the time of the day. ;) It was a box office disappointment because they didn’t learn from Prometheus what people didn’t like.

Hopefully they will be able to do something new. I would prefer a spin-off rather than to have another Ripley-movie or a continuation of the prequels. Unfortunately I think that we would get more David with Scott involved so they need to get him out of the picture sorry for saying it but that is what I think is needed otherwise we will probably get something close to where we are now. Of course we could get a good third prequel but somehow I doubt it. Scott could be on as a producer at best but I am afraid that he would like to influence the story if they are not able to stop him from doing that.

One thing that I would like to see is completely new characters that have nothing to do with those that we have seen this far so no Ripley's cousin, not Daniel's sister, etcetera. Not only new characters but new personalities too or at least not copies, Daniels was too close to Ripley’s personality for example. To try to cut the ties as much as possible with what has been seems to be more exciting if you ask me because then you don’t need to be burdened with what has come before. You can go back and see what has been done before to find inspiration and if you find something where you can use the Engineers let’s say as a starting-point for new things then why not. While getting new ideas there shouldn’t be a need to feel hindered by what has been before although you can find commonalities (think for example Star Wars or Lord of the Rings).

My hope is that Ridley is done, as far as affecting the story and as director of the franchise. He is good with visuals but that’s it. You mention the 40th anniversary but I think that they got to think a lot of where they are now to get it right. I would rather have nothing compared to getting another disappointment.

Give me something new, at least something that isn’t about androids or Ripley.

"What are your thoughts on doing this kind of Retcon?"

That's a difficult question to answer. I'm afraid that they will keep 1 and 2 and erase 3, something that I refuse. Dreams: Erase AC and AR, maybe keep Prometheus but probably not and continue from there because I like how they introduced the Engineers but keep David away or reduce his role. More Engineers would be nice but they got to get them right. An Alien 5 should not erase Alien 3 and have no Ripley, other than that I am open to different things. Erase 2 and go from 1 to 3. ;) Oh I forgot, don’t let it take place on earth. :D To use old ideas, it depends on if they bring something interesting to the story and if they do then sure but I prefer new things. As far as the title is concerned it depends on what Awakening means, I can’t say yes or no to that.

I like the idea of the Engineers so I hope that they keep them in some way but maybe expand on them and explain their society and culture better. Keep them closer to the monster or maybe have something similar to the Engineers but more mysterious. To completely throw that away would be a pity because I like the idea, I don’t like how they were handled especially in AC but they should also have been better explained in Prometheus (for example the sacrificial scene and when the Engineer spoke to Weyland). Unfortunately they were like a lot of other things in Prometheus - good ideas but bad execution. If we don’t keep them then come up with another life-form and how their culture might be. Find a way to expand the franchise but that makes sense and is not too vague.

"WHAT could this ALIEN V show?"

New planets and cultures, new power-players outside of WY let’s say. Different companies because they are always fighting for power/market parts.

BD

You mention the themes of creation and that, which I am not against. What I am against is how it comes off on the screen, namely about an angry robot with daddy issues because he was told that he could not create. The themes are alright the story and characters are lacking. You can look at it like the map versus the reality, the map is the themes and the reality is how it comes off as a movie. The map looks good but they don't fit with the terrain, so to speak.

"If the Story was to have Continued i suspect we would see a Repeat of the Theme to another Layer after maybe David would Re-Engineer those Embryo's to make Humans MK2"

The thing is, I don't care about it. This reply is not meant to come off as aggressive but honestly I have no interest in watching a movie like that. If Star Wars would have had the same themes but crappy characters I would have the same opinion about it, luckily enough they get enough of the characters right. When mentioning Star Wars I mean that original trilogy.

Yes I also agree that we should have had more of the Engineers. I had to read that sentence some times to understand what you meant.

"I think back in 2010 they had Intended to make a Prequel that would SET-UP a way to Explore more about the Engineers and STEER AWAY from ALIEN."

If they would have had more about the Engineers but have a better ties between them and the Xeno I wouldn't mind. They were new and interesting and we already had four official movies with the monsters.

"The Problem is some Fans are maybe NOT open to having a Expanded Universe about the Engineers/Space Jockey that would be a SPIN OFF and NOT a Directly Connected Franchise to the Xenomorph."

Maybe if you don't make the connections being too vague it might work. You don't need Xenos, just don't make it a guessing game. There got to be a mix, not too obvious and not too uncertain.

Yup, Covenant was a mistake - no Engineers (except for in the beginning), poorly made characters, and too much about androids. These are my complaints about the movie. If they would have fixed those things before they started to shoot it if the Engineers and the monsters would have been better, but also if they hadn't cut the character-moments to deliver a run-time it would have improved the movie. I am more disappointed about the poorly made characters rather than the lack of Xenomorphs. A lack of Xenos in Prometheus wasn't a problem for me, the lack of characters was way more annoying.

About the plot, I think that if you make enough interesting things, and have enough characters to care about it will solve many problems. The plot was alright, most of the characters were lame.

"This could have given us a Movie that was more like Alien Engineers... "

If that would have meant better human characters then sure. Good for those that wanted to see more about David and Shaw. I would probably have stayed at home, but that depends on what they would have done with it since so much depends on the characters so I wouldn't automatically reject such a thing, if that makes sense to you.

"As FAR as so HOW MUCH of the Prequels they TOSS OUT if we going for a Prequel again?"

I don't know, there got to be a better way to do it that doesn't evolve around a robot. I liked the Engineer part, I liked the human connections to an extent (Engineers and monsters), I liked the look of the movie. What didn't work in Prometheus were most of the characters. Covenant had mostly lame human characters, almost no Engineers, and was about robots. You can point to the themes, but that is how it came off on the screen. Maybe it could work if they get good writers, a director that cares about the human adventure/characters and understands that is what it is about, a director that doesn't interfere with the writing and story and that understands his or her limits of what they are good at. Unfortunately Scott seems (obviously I don't know him) to be none of that.

Oh, F, not Alien 5. I am against everything that erases Alien 3.

Scott doesn't understand why the prequels lacked, he only sees it as being about the Xeno while the problems were deeper than that. Lame human characters and to make it about robots were way more annoying than the lack of Xenos. My point is, if that's what he thinks then it seems to me that he doesn't know what the problems were.

"Alien Covenant also had NOT the best Characters etc."

I would say that about both prequels, but unfortunately Scott doesn't seem to understand that. When you write also I'm not sure if you compare it to Prometheus or if you bring up that as one of the problems that Covenant had.

". . . but the BIG ONE is that NO ONE would have Envisioned that the Xenomorph was a Creation by a Synthetic with some Daddy Issues."

That's one of the worst things that the prequels did. They got to get that right if they shall remake it or fix that problem. I mean WTF, what a dumb idea.

Yeah, the Planet 4 ones were not that impressive but they could have fixed that by showing that there were different kinds of Engineers. More bio-mechanical things and more like those in Prometheus.

Scott talks about how ineffective the Xeno is, he is right that it is good to bring something new. What he doesn't understand is that he gives the robots too much of a role which is boring, and he also affects the writing which gives us crappy human characters.

"It may NOT mean NO Xenomorphs it could be to Rethink the Origins Story after the David Arc seemed to be a NO GO with the Fans."

If that is the case (and it seems to be a guessing game with Scott since he doesn't seem to be able to explain his ideas in a good way judging from interviews that I have seen) then it might be a good thing. What I am afraid of is that he is too much into David to make that happen and that he says so just to appease some people. Just kill David and move on, that is what I would like to see. Done with the robot story in maybe 15 minutes, that should at least make up somewhat for Covenant. You are right that they got to make it clear that David didn't create the monster otherwise some might think that's still the case.

"You still have to then think so what does David do in this Movie?"

Hopefully not too much, I'm done with him. They could make him yodeling maybe, at least he seems to be into fluting. ;) He could sit at a mountain and sing in a bizarre voice and then he dies because his singing sounds terrible and disables his system. :D More Engineers please, more of those that we saw in Prometheus and also more of their culture and society. To make David the middle-man in the creation of the monster would be alright, at least better than what we saw in Covenant. I'm not interested in seeing more of him but if they feel that they must have him in the movie they should have David in a limited amount like maybe two scenes. Fassbender is a good actor but I don't like where the prequels are now.

"I think some of us would have been Pondering about the Engineers Origins, and WHAT ELSE they have Created and so HOW MANY such Worlds and Races!"

That would have been a great way to go, really interesting. Unfortunately we saw none of that and we have what we have.

"David was ALWAYS going to PLAY a Big Role, the Creation Arc and Themes were going to become about HIM, but it would seem we would have seen more about the Engineers and Dr Shaw would have been the Focus for our Answers."

A big role yes, about him probably no. Before AC it seems that it was more about the origins of mankind even Shaw said that they first created us and then tried to destroy us. Yes David was a part of that big Prometheus was more about the creation of mankind and religion, it was not about David even though he played a big role in the idea of creation. It wasn’t until Covenant that it became about him and got effed up. To me it seemed that Prometheus 2 was to be more about our creation and Shaw’s search for answers, not necessarily about David I agree with Leto about this one.

"The Prometheus Themes and Arc was to be Centered around the LAYER of David and WHAT he Creates."

Which is boring, I don’t want it centered on an android. No matter if Fox and or Scott had planned on doing so or not I am not interested.

Leto

I'm not sure whose idea it was to have the Engineer city like that but it looked boring compared to what it could have been. The Engineers in Prometheus looked great, more like I would have imagined the SJ to be but then the showed them as cavemen in AC which was disappointing. What was on Planet 4 could have looked a lot more mysterious and alien but instead they went with stone-huts, sigh.

"But Scott itself destroyed the Engineers."

Scott and/or Fox, don't forget that Fox has a lot to say about it since it is their money. I don't say that Scott is without blame but I don't think that he alone is the one that messed it up. What I really think though is that he has a part of the development with the focus on David in AC which was just wrong.

Both prequels could have been so much better but we have what we have. Let's see what will come out of this but like SuperAlien said we will probably not see an alien-movie for years. I don't feel very sorry about that since I would rather have an interesting story with well made human characters rather than something that has been rushed. Unfortunately the quality has been more or less the same from AR to now (AVPR is in a league of its own when it comes to shittiness though).

They can make things worse even though I don’t think that it is likely. We'll see where this goes, hopefully it will be better.

Membrane

You are right that a lot of the cut scenes should have been kept in, for example the Xeno-Fifield, the scene where they find a worm before they decided to pet a space-cobra, when Janek talked with Vickers about when he was at that military mission that explained a little what the Engineers did at LV-223.

They made a very poor job when they edited this, unfortunately. At the same time there were maybe scenes that were in the movie that could have been cut and replaced with some of those that they omitted. Prometheus failed partially because of too many cut scenes that would have made sense and that would have built characters.

Roger G

"I do not know if you have already seen the first 3 Episodes. . ."

Nope, I haven't watched it because I have really don't care. I don't have any interest in a story about androids because alien-related or not that's just me. Alien Covenant was a lot about androids and a lot of it (not everything since there were parts that I enjoyed) was boring. We all have different preferences in TV-shows and movies and that's fine, maybe there will be something for me to watch too but this isn't such a thing.

I think they should go with a WY story. We haven't seen that yet so it's untapped territory.

Scott is busy with what could be 5 seasons of RBW and that is just fine. 

I think it would be neat to see what his son could do with the WY angle- movie or streaming series.

BigDave

LOVE that 'Starbeast' poster!!

Also, you and everyone else with your statements and comments just reinforce what I said about this franchise truly belonging in the hands of the Fandom.

WE all know it far better than The Industry.

ALIEN: Manticore 'Out Of The Silent Dark' gives another boost to letting The Alien return to the enigmatic shadows from whence it and where it Belongs.

ORIGINS is just a piece of fun for the Fandom to make up for ALIEN: Covenant's horrible decision about David creating the creatures.
REST ASSURED that at some point in the future, his cheap knock-offs WILL meet an RS-Class 'Big Chap', and everyone in that story will be in very damn serious trouble.

For now, it's about a good sequel, tying up some loose story threads, and restoring our fave critter back to it's Natural Environment...the deep and dangerous shadows amongst the stars.

As a teaser about this sequel, I will say this;

'The Marines in 'ALIENS' had it Easy'

:D

'In Space, There Is No Warning'

I would rather see some unknown or lesser known actors so people don't make comparisons to other works. The problem is that it might not rake in the cash unless there is some star power. 

Wonder what big star they could or will entice?

Michael Fassbender?

Just watched the new Dune trailer...Seemed very 'safe'. didn't see many chances being taken...Looked like something 95 % of Dune fans would have envisioned.

I think this is where the Alien franchise is headed. The safe route.

Marines versus Xenomorphs.

Wonder what big star they could or will entice?

>>>"In space no one can hear you  dream." is the TAGLINE

>>>Could they USE the Title Alien: Awakening?

Yes. These things are perfect for each other.

>>>My Questions to everyone are.

1) Alien 3 & Alien: Resurrection.

2) Alien 3 & Alien: Resurrection. xD

3) I'm not obsessed with canon. This is a very fragile concept that really doesn't cost anything. Therefore, I'm open to any retcon.

4) HOW? I'm not sure I understand the point. Do you mean the narrative explanation for the retcon (sort of like Dark Fates) or the technical one? WHAT? Well, anything.

>>>Could they be Considering to USE some of the Ideas from their ALIEN Drafts that were NOT fully used in ALIEN?

I don't think they attach much importance to ideas from 40 years ago. It's time to move on. Especially considering that their idea (The Alien: Cylinder Script) was already a kind used in Alien: Covenant.

I am more than sure that this will be something new. Perhaps it will be similar to Gibson's original plot - the first and the best representation of Alien 3.

I will add that is NOT to say i wanted her KILLED OFF...

I was looking Forwards to a Sinister Revelation that Crushes her Faith and DRIVES her to a New Character and i think that Noomi Rappace would have had more Potential with that ARC to show what she really is Capable of as a Actor.

I think she would have gone through a more Traumatic Event, but then seen David as her Savior... but in the END i think he would have then USED her to Accomplish his Agenda to CREATE... Regardless.

The Dr Shaw's Fate we had in Alien Covenant i would think was likely her FATE anyway but we could have at least SHARED a Movie of the Horror she goes through, before some kind of Salvation only to see her LIFE taken by David and his Experiments.

Again i think it would be GREAT to see some of the Earlier Drafts, i did have a Source who CLAIMED to have knowledge of a 2014 Draft which i was informed about in Feb 2015 and Passed on this Site...... and Quite a LOT of the Main Plot Points did appear in Alien Covenant.  But somewhat Changed a bit...

David using Dr Shaw to Create something NEW and NOT the Xenomorph however...  with AC his Beast was Changed to be the Actual Xenomorph... which well i think was a Mistake.

"Every time David started taking on a bigger role, he died"

I would argue that we NEVER saw him Die, we only saw him Disabled, we cant be sure HOW LONG he may have Survived as a Head though.

I think its down to Interpretation and Individual Opinion as to WHAT kind of Role that Dr Shaw would have had in the Prequels.  Some may have Expected that she was our Replacement of Ripley as the LEAD.  They may have saw that David's role was more like Ash/Bishop.

It was Dr Shaw's Personal Journey for Answers... to go and Search for the Truth and have Faith that what she Chooses to Believe will be Solidified.

But i dont see it as being that, She will be the Character that we was Supposed to go on this Journey with to use as our Proxy to Discovering their is NO kind of KIND GOD that her Faith would Preach. 

It would be LIKELY she would have been Horrified and Disappointed with what she had Discovered, and this MAY have Changed her Character Arc from Very Naive and with Faith to maybe Anger towards our Creators.

I think that a LOT of the Emphasis was on David if you look at his ARC and the Viral Videos, his Creation was their to show to US that there is INDEED nothing Special About Creation.  It would have been more that Dr Shaw was WRONG and Holloway was RIGHT and Weyland was PLAIN FOOLISH.

I think that YES while we would have seen David as Dr Shaws very own Translator.  It seemed that he would have her FOOLED and Play Right into his Hands..  I think Amongst the Disappointment of the Answer that Dr Shaw would have with then a Broken Faith.  I think the Main Arc would then have gone to Davids Agenda.

The ONLY one who would 100% be able to Tell you would be Ridley Scott, or if we could ask what Lindeloff may have known about the Planned Direction.

Until we get to see one of Jack Paglen's Draft come to Light then we may NEVER be 100% sure as to WHO the Story would have been about.  I dont think Dr Shaw had a Happy Ending though ;)

>>>David was ALWAYS going to PLAY a Big Role, the Creation Arc and Themes were going to become about HIM

It is highly doubtful. David has always turned into a corpse at the end of the Prometheus. While he was lucky enough to stay alive in the final version of the film, his role is to be the support/translator for Shaw.

Every time David started taking on a bigger role, he died. Without any options. It is his destiny - an arrogant creature who admired but underestimated the Engineers and eventually died.

Who know - Maybe Ridley just wanted to stretch this script and finish in a third film? With the same end. In any case - the role of David before the Covenant was support, not the main one.

@Membrane

Indeed it seemed that a Prometheus 2 could have been Different the SET-UP that RS had given at the Time was that the NEXT Movie (P2) would have STEERED AWAY from the Xenomorph and LV-426.  It would have been about where Dr Shaw wanted to go... but also to bare in MIND that without David then Dr Shaw would be Stranded on LV-223 and so RS said she would SLOWLY put him back together, as David is Very Persuasive  and that ONCE he was back in One Piece he would be DANGEROUS.

The Interesting Things that RS had claimed about the SET-UP was that THEY did not want to meet GOD in the First Movie (which could mean those Engineers in Prometheus well the Few we saw are NOT at the Top of the Chain of Hierarchy).  But we would MEET these beings who are NOT any Gods (Traditional Sense) and who are FAR from Benevolent, he also refers to the Engineers often as the Dark/Fallen Angels.  So HOW that stands for Dr Shaw and her Answers, means they LIKELY have NO CARE for what she wants to know. 

However.... David is Bringing HELL with him and what Happens when the Black Goo infects a GOD or a MACHINE.

So it was LIKELY that David would UNLEASH the Pathogen on the Engineers, but its a case of HOW MUCH do we see of them and Learn about them before this.

Seems they had TROUBLE working out a Story based on the above, MANY rewrites between 2013-2014 and TWO Writers before the U-Turn in 2015 that lead to become Alien Covenant.

I think HERE is where things went WRONG with the Prequels.  (And yes there was Bad Writing and Characters).

1) Some Fans (with Prometheus) may have Expected to have some Answers to the Xenomorph, and we got NONE

* There was enough Clues i felt to Connect the Experiments on LV-223 as either something that Came from the Xenomorph or would lead to the Xenomorph. But it was too VAGUE, it needed a LITTLE more.

* It lacked any Relative Monsters to the Xenomorph apart from the Hammerpede, Trilobite and Deacon and there was SIMPLY not enough Screen Time for such Monsters, most of the KILLING was done by Toxic Avenger Fifield and the Angry Engineer.

* Some were Disappointed of the Differences between the Juggernaught and Derelict, and also that the Engineers were maybe NOT quite what they Expected the Space Jockey to be.

2) When we left Prometheus it had SET-UP some things that Fans would have Expected.  That we really NEVER got any Clarity on.

* To Start it would have been Expected that Dr Shaw would be our Anchor/Proxy to the Answers we may get which could be Sinister and Horrific.

* Some Fans would have Expected more about WHY we was Created and then WHY would they want us Destroyed.

* Some Fans would have wanted to KNOW what was going on with LV-223, the Mural/Fresco and WHY and WHAT lead to those Experiments and the Black Goo.

* Most of us would have wanted to SEE more of the Engineers and WHAT is their Current Agenda and Purpose and HAD this Changed in the PAST... if so WHY?

* I think some of us would have been Pondering about the Engineers Origins, and WHAT ELSE they have Created and so HOW MANY such Worlds and Races!

3) The BIG Element of Prometheus and Potential was about Creation, Sub-Creation, Knowledge, Freewill and what Happens when your Creation becomes Sentient and Rebellious or does-not agree with THEIR PLACE in Creation as far as what the CREATOR would Expect.

* David was ALWAYS going to PLAY a Big Role, the Creation Arc and Themes were going to become about HIM, but it would seem we would have seen more about the Engineers and Dr Shaw would have been the Focus for our Answers.

* FOX felt that maybe the Fans would NOT want to know much about (2) and that maybe the Xenomorph Origins and having the Beast Back is WHAT the Franchise Needed.

* So the Creation Arc and Themes would COME to Play a BIG ROLE, only seemed to make way for a incoming Party of Humans, that the Engineers and Dr Shaw as far as Screen Time was Pushed Aside.  The Prometheus Themes and Arc was to be Centered around the LAYER of David and WHAT he Creates.  And looking more at HIS own Creation and Relation to Mankind rather than Exploring the Layer above Mankind.

* The Xenomorph Origins brought into PLAY as the Ultimate Creation of David.  But it seemed the Xenomorph was just the Footnote to Davids more Greater Arc.

It seems that DISNEY are aware of the Disappointment of (3) they cant undo what (2) may have became and also maybe think it would STEER AWAY from the ALIEN Franchise.

They would NOT want to RISK any $$$$$ on Following on with anything from 1-3 and so it would seem its BACK to the ALIEN Franchise and IGNORE the Prequels.

Mother may be many things- it is also wondered if Mother is the ultimate Karen.....

For me, I wish 'Prometheus' was continued (and the cut scenes were put in place to help clarify some stupid character decisions).  In other words, Shaw and David go to the Engineer home world to discover their tech and see the aftermath of an outbreak there.  Instead, we got 'Alien: Covenant', which felt like a movie that had no interest, care or enthusiasm behind it.

ALIEN: ORIGINS

I think Certainly when we thought about this after 2012 we may have be Drawn to Certain Conclusions.  Not Many would have Fathomed it Boiled down to David ;)

Nevermind what our Imaginations had Thought of PRIOR to the Prequels.

ALAS it should have been LEFT a Mystery and David should have Created something a bit Similar but NOT as close as his Xenomorph was... and so via watching HOW it was that David had Created something a Little more Different, we could have had more Clues to maybe HOW the Original came about.

When looking at the Prequels the Premise was Creation

When we got to Alien Covenant the Emphasis was too much on the Layers that are UNDER Mankind and NOT what is Parallel or WHAT lies ABOVE the Engineers.  Or indeed the Origins to the Deacon.

Instead the Xenomorph Origins were Indicated to us as the NEXT Layer of the Cake down from and by the Synthetics (David)

I think the BOAT was missed by looking at either or BOTH of so WHO Created the Engineers, and/or WHAT is the Roots to the DNA of the Deacon, Neomorph and Ultimately the Xenomorph.

I felt that the STARBEAST could have been the Answer to Explore.

Also this MURAL had always Intrigued me.

Very Much Looking Fwd to hearing more, as and when, NO pressure--I know from experience pressure is Not Good for writers.

"ALIEN V can then Contingently go and Remove some Movies"

Ha Ha i meant CONVENIENTLY (auto-spell)

"won't continue the Prometheus story, and as others have pointed out the cooked beast, that seems to narrow things to androids or possibly WY"

I think MAYBE..... now i think DISNEY know the Xenomorph is Synonymous with the Franchise... AC did not do well... RS had indicated he was ahead of the Curve with Prometheus so thats him saying that Bringing the Xenomorph Origins and Beast Back was NOT the way to go.

But it was more so that the Emphasis of the ARC and Themes were on David and the David as the Creator is what had UPSET a lot of Fans who would have rather seen the LV-223 Engineers play a ROLE and show us HOW they Came across the Xenomorph.

And so DK you and SuperAlien had indicated to a degree about a ALIEN Movie that has NO Xenomorph and about the W-Y and A.I...............................MAYBE!

And here is maybe WHY, the ONLY thing that seems somewhat Legit and Connected was the Brandywine Leak

Their (Walter Hill, David Giler) Contribution to the Franchise was the Company Conspiracy and Agenda... Special Order 937 and the A.I Synthetic Ash.

They did make their OWN Version of ALIEN Draft where the Xenomorph was a Creation by the Company and the SOS was a Trap to Lure some Humans in to TEST their Bio-Weapon.

So if the ALIEN Project thats in Process is the Walter Hill and David Giler, Project ALIEN V then maybe they could THROW a Curve-Ball that could be even more Divisive than the David the Creator Plot?

I think the POSITIVE to take from this is that DISNEY are going to do a ALIEN MOVIE.... but HOW this works out is a Matter of Time.

2022 Release would be IDEAL as thats 100 Years before the events of ALIEN ;)

@Leto

I know some Found the Engineers in AC a bit Uninspired.

We seem to FORGET the Big Part of the Engineers was Space Gardeners and those who came to Earth to Teach us what we knew and so our Buildings and Architecture would have been Inspired by them.   So we have to ASK why had Ancient Mankind not had Bio-Mechanical Buildings?

And so the Engineers seem to live like how Buddhist Monks do or the Amish people.  Their Ways, Culture and Religion is whats MOST Important and so they Shun Technology apart from a Few Essential Areas.

So the Engineers use of Technology would be Restricted to the Purpose of Exploring Space to SEED and DESTROY the Worlds they wish to Influence.

But i dont think there was the Balance... i felt Planet 4 needed a Little more of that Aesthetic of the Juggernauts.

Planet 4 had Technology where it was Needed... and we had NOT gone and Explored inside the other Buildings

I think we never saw much of the Cathedral either (not a lot was Explored), but i think that WE would have expected some Ancient Aesthetic on the Outside but inside to see more like this.

So YES i agree that to NOT have seen a Little of this in AC was a Disappointment ;)

BigDave

Cute pic!! lol

The Franchise:

'In Space No One Can Hear You Dream'...
 Soooo...they're gonna pull a 'Dallas' with a left-turn through 'Lost' country.
 Oh goody-goody.
 

I am going to beat Giler and Hill and get some works finished up quicker than planned.

ORIGINS is coming along very well as is
A L I E N: Manticore 'Out Of The Silent Dark', the sequel to my first book-length work. There will be a short-story tie-in with this sequel as well so new audience members and current audience members can get to know the crew better when they're not stressed-out and trying not to end up on the Natural Selection hit-list.

ORIGINS is about 'where did The Alien come from? Why did the Juggernaut on LV-426 have a hold full of egg-pods? Those of you who have read A L I E N: Manticore already know what my take on The Space Jockey is...and ORIGINS will address that Being's story as well.

 I express my displeasure with the mess that our beloved franchise universe has become by way of fighting back with the best stories I can write.

 The future of this universe is in the perview and hands of the Fandom, we all know how to do much better work than what we've been seeing.

 Now, just need to get the Fostering/Adoption service for all those at-risk eggs and facehuggers running around...
 Any volunteers? :D

 On the bright side, Kathleen Kennedy is gone from Star Wars, and that dreaded tv series of Leslye Headland's doing is trash-canned.

@DK

Thank you DK!!! Awesome post!

@Blackant

"because ‘Prometheus’ woke it up very well"

I think a lot Depends on what he meant by this Comment, it could be that by WOKE he may have Felt that the Xenomorph Formula of ALIEN Franchise had been done to Death and so with Prometheus by Exploring the Engineers, they had Awoken a Sleeping Giant if you would.  As in while the Xenomorph had been done a LOT, with the Prequels they had AWOKEN other Aspects of ALIEN as in The Space Jockey, and also the Question of HOW/WHY would someone Create the Xenomorph.

"Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?’"

By this i think what he is Suggesting here is that the ALIEN Franchise does-not and should-not be Synonymous with the Xenomorph alone.

However when i READ this part. "Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful"  Then to me it seems that he Feels that DISNEY would NOT be Interested in what Prometheus was Setting Up, and all the Themes that Carried over to Alien Covenant (say if we removed the Xenomorph and it was something different).

So i think this means that THEY are in the Progress of a NEW MOVIE but its likely to be to place Emphasis back on what People was Familiar with in regards to the ALIEN Franchise rather than trying to Reinvent anything.

That means Xenomorphs to me... but maybe you can Evolve/Change or Uplift them Beyond a Invasive Egg Laying Species....  

The other THING that Fans are Familiar with.....Ripley.... but i dont think you NEED to have her to make another ALIEN Movie.

"I do not think he would have said that if he was happy with the way the movies turned out."

I think that he FELT that you had seen the Xenomorph over and over, and that the Space Jockey Race was something that was NEVER done... and at a Point (Lindeloff) they felt you could Explore the Space Jockey and NOT have to give us Xenomorphs or Direct Answer to LV-426.

I think he was Pleased with the Direction... but seems FOX felt they Needed to bring back the Xenomorph and so Covenant was BORN.  I get the Impression that he Felt the Themes of Prometheus the Creation Arc was the WAY to go, but i think he has Concluded that these Ideas and Especially to Carry them on via David has NOT gone down well with the Public.

"How could be happy with to large commercial failures essentially at the box office...."

I would say that Prometheus was NOT a Failure it did as Good a Return as other Movies prior.  But INDEED with Alien Covenant that was a Disappointment Financially.

With DISNEY when something becomes a Disappointment they ABANDON IT....   with Star Wars the Poor Results for SOLO has lead them to NOT take the Risk with more Spin Off Movies.   So any NEW Star Wars will likely be a Prequel Trilogy to EP1 that is NOT a Skywalker Story.

And so with ALIEN i think Disney will go back to PLAY IT SAFE and we will get a Xenomorph Movie with more Chance of seeing Ripley than a David.

"you right BD I think he is going to in deep with AI plot like he is doing with Wolfs show"

Well if that was the CASE then Disney would wait and see how the Show Does but it does-not look to be too Greatly Received.

The Bottom Line is that DISNEY are the Owners of the Franchise and they would want to maybe take a PUNT with a Movie that is SET in the Franchise.... but they will want to make MONEY! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And so they will LIKELY not Carry on with what Prometheus had done because they KNOW the Prequels had Split the Fanbase as NOT MANY had Enjoyed them Overall when you Combine them and the SET-UP.

Prometheus was a Prequel.... some Fans had expected that a Prequel means.... Xenomorph Origins and the 15ft Space Jockey.

And so this is not a Prediction its a SPOILER

I think what we shall see is the Dream within a Dream PLOT as this ALIEN V can then Contingently go and Remove some Movies like Alien 3 and Alien R and the Prequels.

We then have ALIEN maybe ALIENS but we definitely will get Xenomorphs...... but then i think either NEXT or a ALIEN 6... we will either GO TO the Xenomorph Home-world or we shall see the Space Jockey that will be Reinvented (WAIT AND SEE).

This has already exceeded my expectations from the trailers. My perceptions have changed and I can tell there will be a lot of ambiguity and food for thought. I don't get out much and am a cheap date, so your mileage may vary.

BlackAnt The WY angle could be a new way to go while tapping into the other franchise aspects while staying mysterious , scary and kind of creepy imo.

I have been pushing streaming shows for a long time. RBW is finally doing it in its own fashion. There could be a WY series, a Xeno heavy series- things that can go deep and appeal to fans who dig those aspects of the franchise. Something for everybody (as DEVO once said) and we could all check everything out and we might like it. Personally I am down with a series over a movie these days. 

OHHHHHHHHHHH GOD @DK 

PLEASSSSSSSSSSE let it be Weyland Yutani!!!! PLEASE!!!

WY has so much more to offer and it would be so much more entertaining.......I do not even want a movie any more really I want a WY cable show for like 8 seasons!!! 

Bring on the WY TV show!!!! or MOVIE!!!!! I AM DOWN FOR THAT!

Could we please turn on editing.....so we can go back and correct our spelling mistakes......I hate when I go back read what I posted because I have so many grammar and spelling mistakes!!!!!!!!

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I'm a perfectionist!!!!

SuperAlien

>>>Could we have a good film in the alien universe without the alien himself, that's the fundamental question.

Nice thought, but I still don't trust binary thinking. There is an Alien or not. If the xenomorph is not needed in the film, then why not leave xeno in the background, but not exclude xeno from the film? Much more important is not what things you use, but how.

Imagining the Alien as a braindead bug jumping into the excavator bucket and then declaring that the beast is cooked, is a cheap and lazy thing to do.

Also, show the ancient and ambitious race of Space Gardeners as naive cavemen living in primitive dolmens.

Of course it will upset people.

---

But what I do not understand - the City of Engineers was created on a computer using CG. So does it really matter what to draw? The first sketches of Planet 4 were made in the style of Prometheus, but then Ridley wanted to show us a completely uninspiring prehistoric necropolis, instead of a triumphant space technopolis.

Alien can be cooked (no) by previous directors. A directors who never returned to the Space Jockey. But Scott itself destroyed the Engineers. But Scott decided to explore this soil and after the relatively successful introduction of the Engineers in Prometheus, he destroyed everything with his own hands.

 I think he is going to in deep with AI plot like he is doing with Wolfs show this is the test market....

That remains to be seen (but is an interesting angle) as I have seen a plan for this to be 5 seasons and the 1st season isn't even entirely released. It is hard to imagine 5 seasons of an AI heavy series though.

To the OP, if a movie will be made that won't continue the Prometheus story, and as others have pointed out the cooked beast, that seems to narrow things to androids or possibly WY. The android route can be a great direction but is far away of what the Quadrilogy was about. Frankly, it sounds like a shit show.

Keep your hopes low and don't expect any alien film soon. Agree.

To me, Ridley Scott says again that the beast and the franchise that only tries to rethink the whole bloody thing, to reinvent the wheel are cooked. He tried to revive it in different ways with Prometheus and Covenant, but the whole thing run out of steam. Could we have a good film in the alien universe without the alien himself, that's the fundamental question.

So nothing is in the works Ridley Scott, for the first time since Covenant, does not have a clue about the next film, most probably there have been talks between Ridley, Hill, Giler and Disney, but where it will go next, that's not yet decided. And Ridley seems a little tired about the subject, his enthusiasm gone. Keep your hopes low and don't expect any alien film soon.

@BD

BD did you see this quote by RS himself, where he indirectly admits to the commercial failures of his ideas climatically on the big screen with the movies Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

Here is the RS quote....."

In a new interview with Forbes, Scott teased the future of the franchise, and said that a new film, while in the works, isn’t likely to revisit the worlds set up by 2012’s “Prometheus” and 2017’s “Alien: Covenant.”

“That’s in process. We went down a route to try and reinvent the wheel with ‘Prometheus’ and ‘Covenant,’” he enthused. “Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful because ‘Prometheus’ woke it up very well. But you know, you’re asking fundamental questions like, ‘Has the Alien himself, the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?’ That’s always the fundamental question.”

"We went down that rout," and it did not work financially for the most part because if it did we would just keep making more of these films.....this is speculation BD of course; but, how does that make you feel when RS says he may likely be not showing much of many of the things you really wanted to see in the way you wanted to see with the Engineers.

What a loss right....so will this be a show more about AI and synthetics....would that be the new emphasis....with the Engeers being more just derivative plot devices....what he said in that quote is frightening...exciting but also contraversial....he simulaneously saying we did not get it right with two movies back to back and almost a half billion dollars of production money.....he himself is saying we thought we knew what the audience wanted to see but we could not get the movies right.....I do not think he would have said that if he was happy with the way the movies turned out.

How could be happy with to large commercial failures essentially at the box office....

I hope he gets it right this time...and we get a Alien Franchise film that is entertaining....but it looks like it will somewhat related to the Alien franchise and nothing more...Read this part of the quote too....

"have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?’ That’s always the fundamental question.”

BD I think you were right he may be abandoning ship with all it, the Xenos.....maybe most of the Engineers...you right BD I think he is going to in deep with AI plot like he is doing with Wolfs show this is the test market.....and we are just going to get these less evolved teasers of the plot where the Engineers are never really there they are more just props then real characters in the production.