Comments (Page 127)

"Is it possible that Scott is in fact talking about doing a Prometheus again and going Alien-less in next sequel, but existing within the same universe? While taking part in press junket’s for Alien: Covenant, Scott had talked about the Engineers returning to the aftermath of what David had done to their people. How would you feel about a new film returning without the actual Aliens, but instead focusing on the Engineers?"

This is what AVPGalaxy had said.....

I can maybe see a Little WHY they think this could be the case " ‘Has the Alien himself, the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?’ That’s always the fundamental question"

So they (AVPGalaxy) are looking at RS saying that maybe the Xenomorph has RAN out of Steam and as RS had said "Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing" they likely think he means that maybe you have to RETHINK the Prequel Continuation and NOT give us Xenomorphs/Take us to LV-426 but to do something ELSE.

It may NOT mean NO Xenomorphs it could be to Rethink the Origins Story after the David Arc seemed to be a NO GO with the Fans.

The Problem here is TWO FOLD...

So your going to Follow where David goes NEXT and have the Engineers Rock UP and Want Revenge, but then to NOT include the Xenomorph or come up with something to EXPLAIN that David had NOT created it?

You still have to then think so what does David do in this Movie?  Some Fans are NOT a Fan of a Movie that would Revolve much about him and the SOONER you add some ANGRY ENGINEERS to the MIX its HOW LONG does David last and then WHAT NEXT?

I think we NEED to look at WHY the Engineers go to all the Effort to Create Mankind and then also to Create the Horrors on LV-223 so they must be IMPRESSED with Creation and Pushing the Boundaries of WHAT they can CREATE.

So when they come across a Walter/David and Realize that their Creations (Mankind) have Created a Superior Creation (Synthetics) than they had (Mankind).

Then they see THIS very Creation of Mankind has gone and Created something that Surpasses what they had DONE with the Deacon.

MAYBE these Engineers could see the POTENTIAL in what David had done, and HOW it is that Mankinds Creation (Synthetics) are not Biological and maybe they could see the Potential of Synthetic and Xenomorph (Davids) and go about to make a AMALGAMATION of them.

So what we have is DAVID has merely been the Middle Man, he takes the Engineers Secrets and Surpasses the Deacon/Neomorph....... they become Impressed and they Re-Engineer his Protomorph to become the BIO-MECHANICAL FIEND from ALIEN

At some POINT with their Evolved Xenomorph they had Re-Engineered they LOAD them up to UNLEASH on Earth and.......

WE ALL KNOW HOW THAT ENDED ;)

Look Forwards to seeing how you get on ;)

I think it DEPEND on HOW in touch with the Fans and the Reaction to the Prequels that DISNEY will be.

Some Interviews with RS he seemed to think that THEY had given us the Xenomorph and YET it still NEVER did too Good, which is WHY he said he was ahead of the Curve with Prometheus as in it seems he FELT that you did-not have to bring the Xenomorph back.

Lets Face It..... Prometheus did-not give some Fans what they maybe Expected, but Disappointments over the Space Jockey, over the LACK of Answers to ALIEN and NO real Monsters where ONLY a Part of the Problem...  Alien Covenant also had NOT the best Characters etc.

I think they have to GO BACK to prior to the Prequels.... and that at this TIME the Very Notion that the Xenomorph and Space Jockey had NOT been on LV-426 for a Very Long Time, and NEVER-MIND that the Space Jockey were 8ft Humanoids... but the BIG ONE is that NO ONE would have Envisioned that the Xenomorph was a Creation by a Synthetic with some Daddy Issues.

I think some Fans may have felt the Engineers where a Little Underwhelming, while some would have liked to see more about the ENGINEERS.... just maybe not all the GODS stuff... and so when we saw the Planet 4 World and Engineers i think that MOST of the Fans had Expected to see more Bio-Mechanical World and City and our Engineers to be more like from Prometheus.

I think that prior to Alien Covenant then a LOT of Fans maybe would have liked to had seen the Space Jockey be a Separate Species to the Engineers.

So IF we get another ALIEN MOVIE then i think you have to ask those Questions that RS had mentioned. "Has the Alien himself, the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing"

Because if we get Queen, Eggs, Face Hugger, Chest Buster and Big Guy then its a case of HOW MANY more Times can you keep doing that without GIVING some Background Purpose to the Xenomorph, or Evolve it.

Or to go BACK to introduce the Engineers/Space Jockey at some Point?

Or do they REINVENT all of that?

I think thats a Interesting Point you make IgnorantGuy

Going Directly to the Source

================

The most recent installment was 2017’s Covenant, but Scott’s confirmed another film is still in the works.

"That’s in process. We went down a route to try and reinvent the wheel with Prometheus and Covenant,” he enthused. “Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful because Prometheus woke it up very well. But you know, you’re asking fundamental questions like, ‘Has the Alien himself, the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?’ That’s always the fundamental question.”

===================

What i get from this is he Acknowledges that a Movie is the Process and so Disney are going to make another Franchise Movie.  He goes on to suggest that they tried to do something Different with the Prequels, it seems he feels they had Shook the Franchise up by the Path of the Prequels (they was NOT going to Revolve around what you Typically would Associate the Franchise with). So he was asking IF the Xenomorph had been Done Enough and it was TIME to try something Different  and so it seems he was thinking about IF you tried something Different (Expansion) but it lacked to be about the Xenomorph can you WARRANT sticking a ALIEN: Prefix.

We have to remember before this Latest Interview we LAST saw Ridley Scott take more Interest in the ARC of the Prequels and we would go on to Finish the WHO would Create such a Thing and then he Mentioned that you have Evolve the Beast, Change it it.   He had in a Few Interviews prior also said we are in the PROCESS... of getting to ALIEN and so what we have seen with AC as far as the Protomorph is something that will EVOLVE to get to what we have in ALIEN.

He also said after the Disappointment of AC that he FELT he was ahead of the CURVE with Prometheus.

So we have to PUT it all into Perspective....

Ridley Scott had FELT with Prometheus that this was a Attempt to Explore the Engineers and Creation etc, where you could GIVE the Answers to WHO the Space Jockey Race was and you DID-NOT have to Answer the Mystery about LV-426 or even have XENOMORPHS to expand the ALIEN Franchise.

Decisions were made to give a Sequel that WOULD go and START to Answer the WHO/WHY/WHEN/HOW the Xenomorph came to be, where they Re-Invented the Notion of WHO and to CHANGE it from the Space Jockey/Engineers and make it about David.

They Started to TINKER with the Xenomorph a little, the Aesthetic was more Organic, the Chest Buster was Different but this would all be a WORK IN PROGRESS.

In LIGHT of Alien Covenant.... what RS seems to be suggesting is that MAYBE for the Future of the Franchise then the Direction and Changes that was MADE in regards to the Xenomorph, its Role, Creation and Aesthetic in the Prequels was maybe STEERING to FAR from what people are USED to seeing.

So he seems to me to be Indicating that the Re-Inventing the Wheel was maybe something that HAS NOT worked as far as to PLEASE the Fans.  Or Certainly that the Prequels kind of Deviated a bit TOO FAR from the ALIEN Franchise.

I think he is Acknowledging that you cant have a ALIEN MOVIE and Change the Formula too much.  So he had TRIED something Different and that MAYBE it had NOT worked out as far as Interest.

So Disney would be looking at HOW do you make another Movie about the Xenomorph but then CARRY ON with the Revelation and Arc of the Prequels.  And so it seems RS feels that maybe any NEW MOVIE may IGNORE the Prequels.

So as far as AVPGalaxy goes UNLESS they have some Inside Scoop!   Then its just their Interpretation that because RS had said.. "Whether or not we go directly back to that is doubtful" that this means they are going to do a Prequel but just MAYBE NOT Carry on with what RS had Started... now come on that makes LITTLE SENSE!

As FAR as so HOW MUCH of the Prequels they TOSS OUT if we going for a Prequel again?

Where as i read into it as that they are doing a ALIEN Movie that WILL-NOT be a Prequel and RS does-not know if the NEW MOVIE will Acknowledge what the Prequels had done or IGNORE them.

And so i think the Project in the Process will be THIS ONE.

Geebuz... AVP galaxy cites the same thing saying that "Sir Ridley Scott Confirms He Is Still Developing Next Alien Prequel"

Which one should I believe??!?

Good film > cannon.

If it will be a good film, then I'm more than sure - no one will care about the canon continuity.

---

The main reason for the retсon is even not Alien 3. But Alien Resurrection.

Of course, you can keep all films in canon continuity. You can. But the very idea that the "possible" Alien 5 will be a sequel/prequel/whatever of AR or be located in the same universe/timeline with such an abomination - depressing.

Just imagine - Alien 5 would be a good, even great, and more than that - a gorgeous film! With a good sequels. But ... yes. To get into this film you will need to complete AR (plus Alien3 for some people, but I excluded it from the equation). Yes. Not inspiring anymore, is it?

Something like that:

- Hey, you heard?! A new Alien film is on the way! There will be engineers, androids, marines, aliens, queens! We will go to the alien homeworld with Giger aesthetics!

- WOW! Sounds cool!

- Yeah, but it will a direct sequel to Alien Resurection...

- Oh, I'm pass!

---

Sometimes to create, one must first destroy.

The cost of progress must be absolute.

"but a 2nd Mission to Prometheus"

I meant LV-223

"in Space No One Can Hear you Dream"

The Tagline for Alien V is a Convenient way to just IGNORE the Prequels and any other Movie in the Franchise they want to just REMOVE from Canon.

Maybe Disney give us a TRUE ORIGINS STORY!

I am going to ASSUME that the Project that is being worked on is the David Giler and Walter Hill  version of ALIEN V

I am Concerned they have RAN OUT of ideas and think that you HAVE to bring back RIPLEY to Save the Franchise.

"But I guess the only important question is: how long can you give up the sequel to the previous film and try to start from scratch?"

I think this is RS just concluding that Disney have NO real Interest in any Continuation, i think we have to Remember that OTHER factors do Influence Changes to a Movie.

It seems that he is AWARE that Disney are in the Progress of Planning another Alien Movie, but i get the Impression that he is NOT that aware of the Direction but he seems to be sure it WILL-NOT be a Continuation of anything the Prequels had been trying.

Reading into his Comment it seems like Disney are not to KEEN on Change and so we would LIKELY see a Movie that gives us the same Formula we had in the Franchise and so Maybe? its back to Vanilla Morphs.

"To me it seems that it is Scott that is out of steam since he only cares about David"

Well i think what he was showing us was the THEMES at play about Sub-Creating something that becomes Sentient and NOT Happy with its ROLE as Intended by their Creator and so we have Rebellion and Sub-Creation repeated and so with David he is being USED as the Proxy to Retell maybe what those LV-223 Engineers had become.

If the Story was to have Continued i suspect we would see a Repeat of the Theme to another Layer after maybe David would Re-Engineer those Embryo's to make Humans MK2

I think the Engineers should have been something to have LOOKED into more and WHAT ELSE they Created.

I think back in 2010 they had Intended to make a Prequel that would SET-UP a way to Explore more about the Engineers and STEER AWAY from ALIEN.

The Problem is some Fans are maybe NOT open to having a Expanded Universe about the Engineers/Space Jockey that would be a SPIN OFF and NOT a Directly Connected Franchise to the Xenomorph.

Prometheus just NEVER acted as much of a Bridge to ALIEN it never gave any Real Answers or Closure and so what we had was a Sequel that they then decided to Give those Answers and Bring the Xenomorph back but in a WAY that surely they should have known would RUFFLE some Feathers...

I think the PLOT was just to BOLD for those Fans who would like Aliens and Alien R and AVP etc..... while it was NOT really ALIEN enough for those who always Wondered about the Space Jockey.

Its a Shame as they could have FIXED this by NOT have given us Alien Covenant... but a 2nd Mission to Prometheus with another Android like David... say Walter.

He could have Finally Met his Maker when they Discover the Body of Weyland...  

This could have given us a Movie that was more like Alien Engineers, where we would get PLENTY of Clues to the Xenomorph Origins and LV-426 and then ALLOWED for the Door to ALIEN to be Shut.

Then they could have gone to do a Franchise Spin Off to where David and Dr Shaw are going and IF its not about Xenomorphs and what some Fans wanna go see then its TOUGH! ;) They would have their Answers and their Alien Franchise.

The Door would always be OPEN to do other ALIEN Movies in Future that a Mission to LV-223 would have UPLIFTED the Potential to introduce the Xenomorph and Horrors away from LV-426

"Some? What is important is what most of the fans (I would say maybe like 70%) think. If you have a huge division around central things instead of details then a movie has failed"

This comes about Mainly from there NEVER really being a A-Z Answer (From 1979-1999) as far as the Xenomorph Origins and Space Jockey, i think RS may have had some Ideas which he NEVER got to Carry On because he was BUSY and so James Cameron came aboard and made ALIENS where i DONT think he even Considered what was the Origins.... and again with FOX going for a AVP instead of looking at Answering the Questions from ALIEN.

So with Each Movie you get a New Set of people working on it who can CHANGE what they want and so you have NO real Solid Foundation to Build On.  Which is MAYBE why there was that ALIEN 10 Page Rulebook that was done at the Time they worked on Alien Covenant so that Future Movies have some Ground Rules to FINALLY stick too.

The other Problem is that with the ALIEN Franchise then there are THINGS that NOT every Fan like or Agree with.

They COULD go and REBOOT the Franchise.. remake ALIEN and then make a New Prequel and New Sequel and i think your going to have a HARD TIME to go and Give all the Fans what they want.  What these Mainly could Achieve is to Reintroduce the Franchise with a Different Spin on Certain things to a NEW Generation... but these Changes maybe WONT settle too well with Fans who Grew Up with the Original Franchise.

Sometimes a Story can get Screwed Up a bit and Disappointment... Star Wars EP 8 The Last Jedi is a Good Example.... and all you can do is Continue with Damage Control as you cant 100% Undo the Things that were DONE prior.

Unless we have them as Dreams or Time Travel or Multiverse etc etc.... which can just be a LAZY Reset Button.

"The SJ is tied to the Engineers, the Engineers were in the LV-system which means that they could have been to other systems as well depending on their ships and interest. Maybe they have been to other systems and galaxies"

Firstly then INDEED the PLOT would mean its Extremely Unlikely that the Earth is the ONLY such World the Engineers have Interacted with and Seeded/Evolved.  And by Virtue of there being other GALAXIES in their Navigation Systems must mean they have been to and have the ABILITY to Reach other Galaxies which means the Chances that we are ALONE as far as a Creation of the Engineers is Exponentially made UNLIKELY.

The Engineers and the Space Jockey were intended to be ONE and the SAME... but while you have some Differences as far as Aesthetically and Scale then it leaves it OPEN for the Space Jockey to be a Different or Related Species.

"the main complaint about Prometheus wasn't the lack of Xenos it was that the human characters"

I think it depends on WHAT Source you look at, Certainly Prometheus had other Problems and it was NOT that it Disappointed because it had NO Xenomorphs... some Fans was UPSET that it was not a ALIENY kind of Movie.

FOX had deemed that NOT having the Xenomorph was a mistake and i Suspect that the Anticipation and Excitement for Blomkamps Alien 5 over a Prometheus 2 that would Follow Dr Shaw and David and STEER AWAY from LV-426 and the Eggs etc, is something that FOX must have FELT there was a Great Interest from the Fans to see the Xenomorph again.

"Not necessarily though it is important but maybe it could be very far in the future with like humanity 2.0."

Well i think who is to say that we are NOT say Humanity 2.0?

When looking at the Engineers Plot its likely they had Created other Humanoids, but i think you would have to have some look Very Human to have us make a Connection with them.

I think they DROPPED the Ball with Alien Covenant... but then it was LIKELY they would NOT go and Risk a Story that does-not have DAVID in it, but it would have to have the Xenomorph and so its HOW do you Juggle those TWO.

It seems they NEVER even Pay any Attention to the Engineers Plot.... Creators, and WHO we had Interactions with that LED to our Mythos and Religions about Gods!

And so they had to Introduce more HUMANS as surely to have a Movie with just Dr Shaw and then David being the ONLY other being thats Relatable to Humans would maybe NOT have Worked.... having Engineers too would be HARD especially if these GUYS had a HATRED for us....

And so having a Plot where the Engineers World is CLOSE to LV-223 and so then they can introduce the Covenant Colony Mission to give us our Humans was the ONLY way they could think about to GIVE us more Humans.

Which is WHY i mentioned about the Eggs in One Basket ;)

In Context to the Franchise can we 100% Say that Mankind came from Earth?

Could we have came FROM somewhere else?  And so if we go that Route then we have other Humans, but as you said you have to LINK them to Mankind on Earth in some way. You then Acknowledge that we likely came from Another Place.

OR.... if they PAY attention to the Various Mythos and Religions then there are Themes about a Rebirth for Mankind as in a Second Chance (NOT a Afterlife)  and by that i mean the Various Flood/Deluge Stories..

If as a Engineer you see the Problem with Mankind is from the way we are Behaving, the Upbringing and Knowledge we Gained that led to our Behavior

Children could be RAISED to any way the Engineers wanted and NOT to be Influenced or Corrupted by our Ways.

And so we could Explore that the Engineers had came to Earth and taken some Humans or just Embryo's to other Worlds, at the Time Prior to the Planned Destruction of Earth.  Or the Engineers could have done this Many Thousands of Years prior.

So the Earth does-not have to be the ONLY place where there are Humans say Thousands of Years ago.

My idea for one of my Prometheus Sequels had taken Dr Shaw and David to a World that has other HUMANS and the Revelation would have been that WE do-not Originate on Earth at all.

"BD should be able to confirm that because he has more specifics on just how silly the studio was with the other sets RS wanted to build and film"

I am not sure HOW MUCH the Studio had impacted the Height of the Engineers, when Production started to begin they had intended to give us 10ft Engineers (Downgraded from 12-15 in the Drafts) but for some reason there was a Decision to NOT use any kind of Effects to Portray the Engineers Scale and so Camera Angles would be used instead and i think this was something that RS had chosen to do as he liked to keep things as Practical as Possible.

But Certainly the STUDIO would have Held a LOT of Influence over Changes, which had Included the Decision to REMOVE the Xenomorph and Similar.  To TOWN DOWN the HR Giger Aesthetic and to NOT give us a Literal Prequel.

There are others working on the Project who also have a LOT of say in things, which include David Giler and Walter Hill.  Its Common for Movies to have to CUT Material to get a Theatrical Cut that is NOT too Long, so that it Allows for more People to be Willing to give the Movie a Chance, if the Movie had a Extra 30-45 Minutes then maybe ONLY the more Hard Core Fans would have turned up and so Box Office Figures could have Declined somewhat.

I think Prometheus was a Movie that DID-NOT give every Fan what they Expected and FOX felt that to STEER AWAY from Giving Answers to the Xenomorph and to NOT have the Beast Back, was MAYBE a Mistake.

I get the Impression that RS was Actually Happy with Prometheus for the Most Part, he seemed to be more Pleased with that than the Direction of Alien Covenant.

Prometheus had its Flaws.... some Suspect Writing/Moments of Stupidity but then a LOT of Horror Movies have these as a Plot Device.  It depends on HOW they Execute these Plot Devices and some i FELT was not so BAD but some were SILLY and UNNECESSARY.

ALIEN was well SILLY for letting Kane on board... HOW Stupid was ASH!!!  But then you get the Curve-ball that he was a Synthetic and Special Order 937 which was a Masterstoke to show that this was a Deliberate breach of Quarantine by the Robot ASH so was very WELL thought out and a Good Addition that Hill and Giler added to the Story.

I think Prometheus has its Moments of too much Ambiguity for some... Its a Movie you have to STUDY and go back to Numerous Times to start to Appreciate it and kind of BEGIN to understand it a Little.

PLOT HOLES... i think it depends on what you would Consider  ONE to be, other Movies are MORE Guilty of PLOT HOLES or things that MAKE Little Sense.

You were going to come up with some Conflicts when you go for a Chariots of the Gods Plot.... where our Ancient Mythos and Religions all STEM from the Engineers and Interaction with them.  Especially when you would have then Expected the Engineers to look like.....

@BlackAnt

Thank you for referring to ‘Life’, which I have watched.

In terms of execution, it functions well but there is no depth merely entertainment.

On the question of the special effects in Prometheus Ridley was anxious to use practical modelling rather than CGI that was a stated policy decision whether it works is down to individual preference personally I feel the entire riff at the end was off.

In the documentary, Jon Sphait’s is quite emphatic that rather than the SJ be giant elephantine comedic beings they should be relatable for storytelling purposes.

When you consider the Nobel Savages that offered the Donation Genesis and then consider the look of the woken pilot, something has happened there which can be important and bleed into what has been going on on this "Anthrax Island." If they had gone to Paradise they would have found out the answer to that. They wanted to make monsters sub create something of their own why was that so important?  

@Thoughts_Dreams

Thanks for your thoughts. 

I think why Prometheus is correctly named a cult film is because only a certain type of person will enjoy it and the reason it missed with a lot of people are the reasons that you give which I understand.  

Shaw

I have always been intrigued by your disdain for Shaw and wondered whether its because she represents a person of faith and given your remark "this is not a church" it sounds to me that you are unhappy with her faith as if it and her are out of place in the movie. 

My view is if a search for our creators, it is essential that a person of faith is included within that search.

I wonder is your real objection that they should not have made a film within the Franchise, which is essentially a quest for our creators with all that implies. It wasn't a quest for some cool Engineers but those who made us. 

From the original sacrificial scene to the rebirth of the Deacon, the ritual of life is before us and the movie should take us in a direction where we get Elizabeth’s answers. Who made us why and what is our purpose. What she would find out in the movie Prometheus is, dark angels made us because they could and our role is merely a punt whilst these dark angels seek to perfect a replacement.

So how would a person of faith react to this? The answer is there must be more, who made them, what’s really going on? She will not accept as a person of faith that is all and that's how Prometheus the movie ends.

So what would Prometheus Paradise have been about and how would Elizabeth as the person of faith as our proxy react to what she found?

She would arrive at Paradise and it would become clear she already knew the answer to her question. The reason we were made was that someone could and the reason we could be replaced is because they could. The really fascinating question is why were they doing this, why were they attempting to sub create and introduce their own vision? 

“For me, to echo some elements of Mary Shelley, It is a study of an unsentimental god, it is about creativity and destruction, of a people without loving relationships that allow havoc to reign and evil to triumph."

And that is my answer in my story "The Furious Gods".

But to return to Elizabeth. 

Dr. Shaw, a scientist who believes in God, is responsible for a mistake that could evoke the Greek hubris. More precisely, she “wants her religious beliefs affirmed, and believes she is entitled to answers from God”; but “her questions remain unanswered and she is punished for her hubris”

So in order to tell the story, she has to be a person of faith and having asked her question she is punished. But is there redemption for her? 

In the "Crossing" we see the first part of her redemption the healing of David out of a desire for forgiveness but it is also out of vanity so that she can get her answers and so she is not entirely redeemed and the punishment continues.

In "Furious Gods" She faces the ultimate test to achieve redemption and it is in the form of Temptation. 

Equally, David is drawn into this because he is responsible for her punishment. He does not need redemption more a sense of purpose in 'Covenant' he finds it by a sub creative act so he is now merely copying the fallen angels that all so begs the question. They were destroyed by what they created so will he be and by the same power? That I am sure would have been the story of the Space Jockey in the original 2015 vision Ridley had but that's to digress.

In the "Furious Gods," by being healed David is given another chance. At some point, he suffers remorse and conscience, is that the first move toward having a soul something that Weyland says he will never have?

He is given a glimpse of 'Heaven' and understands finally how he, David, knowledge fits in. But he too is tempted.

So eventually the Person of Faith, whose faith no longer makes any sense and the Android seeking meaning realise what they must do. The answer takes us back to the beginning of the Tale or let's say they believe that is the answer but they will only find out by a, “a leap of faith."     

To come back to Prometheus because that was made and we have the evidence to go looking for our creators without someone of faith would remove the relativism to what they found and each other. So much of the final act of Prometheus up until the craft smashes into the Juggernaut needs her faith-based viewpoint. For us the onlooker its the only thing that keeps her going.     

So for me that she is from "the Church" is vital. You have a perfect right not to want a Spiritual dimension to be placed in the mix but if you want to treat evil seriously rather than generic horror then you have to have goodness. In the first Trilogy Ripley is weary heroism against remorseless hate in the second set of films it would have naive faith. 

BD

"I think the PROBLEM that is Faced with the Franchise (Original Quadrilogy) is getting people to LOOK BEYOND what they THINK what would Constitute the ALIEN Franchise."

Yeah, Star Wars and Star Trek have done those things so why would Alien be different in that way? They got to have something in common that ties them together so people can see that it is alien-related or else there will be problem with some people and the links got to be clear enough. If you do something and then people get confused so you have to do something like sit down with them and explain that XYZ then you haven't done your work, that should be understood from the story. My point is that it isn't the fault of the audience, it is the writer (if you have it in books or movies or whatever doesn't matter). You don't have to explain it in capital letters and exclamation-points so to speak but it shouldn't require you to read ten books to get the connection or connections.

The word Alien means unknown so that could be expanded on to new things in the franchise but that requires mysteries and good writing something that the prequels have failed with. You mention different things that are interesting. If we look at unknown things that are in the franchise we have the culture of the Engineers and the SJ, we have the Weyland and Yutani companies, we have different monsters, we have the goo, you have the android part and even though I am not interested in that someone could explore it if they want but get human characters that we can care about and so on.

One problem is that the prequels have demystified the SJ and the derelict to an extent. Maybe there is a way to save that but keep Scott and Fox far away from everything that has got to do with the story if not then we will get a prequel situation again.

". . . would some Fans consider such a Venture as being part of the ALIEN Franchise?"

Some? What is important is what most of the fans (I would say maybe like 70%) think. If you have a huge division around central things instead of details then a movie has failed.

Look at it like this though: we have the LV-system where the SJ was found. The SJ is tied to the Engineers, the Engineers were in the LV-system which means that they could have been to other systems as well depending on their ships and interest. Maybe they have been to other systems and galaxies, if you tied the Engineers to the SJ and the SJ to the Xeno then it is surely in the Alien-verse and if the links are clear enough then their eventual travels to other systems would make sense. You shouldn't go Lindelofian with it though (mysteries for mysteries sake, to obscure things) because then it gets frustrating. Not to say that he is the only one to blame but he didn't make it better as far as seeing connections in the alien-verse are concerned.

You mention Ripley 8, another problem is that AR is considered to be very poor by many myself included so maybe it would not be very popular to continue with her. I understand what you mean but I am a bit skeptical about it, it depends on the writing and execution.

"These are Recipes for your Super Soldiers to go AWOL"

Maybe that could be something, don't make it into a David kind of situation though and focus too much on the Ripley 8. The human adventure always comes first, to me at least. Our ties and how humanity deals with androids and cloning is what makes it interesting to me not necessarily androids and cloning in themselves. Xenomorphs or not, the main complaint about Prometheus wasn't the lack of Xenos it was that the human characters acted stupid as far as I remember it (you can google it if you want). Because that was the main problem to many that is why people complained but Fox and Scott never understood that part of it. The lack of Xenos wasn't the main complaint so I don't think that a Xeno-less movie would be a disaster as long as it has enough ties to the franchise, isn't too vague, and has well done human characters that we can see ourselves in.

"So the Necessity for Humans does kind of HOLD BACK to what you can do....."

Not necessarily though it is important but maybe it could be very far in the future with like humanity 2.0. Humans are from apes so if you look at it like that it could work. Apes evolve into humans and humans might turn into humanity 2.0 with maybe stronger immune-systems or what ever. Who knows what evolution brings if it occurs naturally or if humans use some artificial thing to evolve themselves. Maybe they would get punished for cheating nature and some Xeno monsters or Engineers could be used in that way. Mankind has tried to dominate earth and the universe so that could fit in somewhere especially when you look at Prometheus and stealing fire from the Gods and so on. Humanity 2.0 goes back to --> Prometheus (and human evolution) which goes back to --> Alien, therefore it's in the alien-universe.

"Species who would PUT all of their EGGS in ONE Basket?"

If they would do that and fall the eggs would break which means that they wouldn't get any omelette. :D

Picture twenty Engineers around a table that are very hungry waiting for their food, if the Engineers have a short fuse there will be trouble. Plates are being thrown around, Engineers are screaming. :D

"Battlestar Galactica/Caprica and Star Wars had Humans and NONE of these came from Earth ;)"

I haven't watched Battelstar Galactica but Star Wars sure. Maybe mankind will have to escape earth because it is not habitable and find a new planet so that's possible.

You mention Star Trek, I've never been into that but I understand what you're trying to say. If they were well-written and sympathetic then it might work but then you got to explain their ties to humanity even though there might be just small links. For example they could both be made by the Engineers but then you should at least give some explanation why the Engineers just didn't create humans that live on earth even though you might not need to go that much into details.

Maybe some humans and the humanoids could face a threat together that they got to cooperate against to survive? Here you could bring in the Engineers and other horrors that they've created to keep their creations in check. What is important is that even though they might be humanoids we (the audience) must feel sympathetic towards them and that requires some well-made characters otherwise we'll have the same problem as we have with the prequels - interesting ideas but mostly crappy characters.

Michelle J

"... if you listen to Jon talking about Damon's ideas in the documentary they are one single voice."

I hear what you are saying but it the movie should make things somewhat clearer. What you say about the dialogue makes sense but that and what we were shown should have been better tied together. People shouldn't have to watch a movie 10 times to understand it, not everyone will understand it after one sit. Honestly it took me a while to see the connections but not everyone have that patience or interest. Visual messages is something that you mention, but I am not sure if everyone are that patient and some people want more through dialogue. To me at least I would have liked if the dialogue and visual things should have been better mixed. A movie that is obvious wouldn’t be good for this franchise since it doesn’t seem to fit, but it shouldn’t require tons of research.

You mention the different view-points that David, Shaw, Weyland, and Holloway had. Those ideas in themselves are interesting but unfortunatly I didn't find Shaw, Weyland, or Holloway to be interesting since they were so poorly written. It had interesting questions but mostly poorly written and/or executed characters unfortunatly. When the characters don't work then I don't care about the themes, but that's just me.

The rest of the things that I will reply to are things that I see are meant for BlackAnt but I found it to be interesting. I will write a response to them as well, only reply if you want.

Ridley seems to be into the business side of it, I am not sure if that is a good approach. (I almost wrote Ripley, have you ever thought of the fact that the names are so similar?) Yes it got to make a profit but if you think too much about the money you might miss the art-side of it. To improve the art (things about the movie that are not strictly about the money) you can't think too much about keeping things under budget because that might give you a worse quality in the finalized thing. A smaller budget might be bad financially since it might make the movie worse so less people watch it but there might also be a possibility to make movies cheaper and make them work. Unfortunatly I can’t give you an example of a sucessful movie that had a low budget, even though there might be one or more somewhere.

I wish that they would have had more like cave paintings that would have explained things better. They should have given us more clues to this one, at least let us look at it longer:

The picture is taken from a thread here from 2016 titled Is the Beaked man a representation for the eagle who eats the liver of Prometheus? Unfortunatly I am not sure who took the picture originally. You can find a better version at the Strange Shapes blog at https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2014/0/page/2/.

"Janek's conversation with Vickers is important because what he says to her is actually the truth wrapped up in speculation."

Not sure if it is in the movie or as an extra thing. If it makes sense it is probably an outtake. ;) Vickers could have been so much better in the movie, that was a missed opportunity. Unfortunatly they just wrote her as a corporate bitch which I can understand but the cut scene with Janek makes her more interesting. Janek says something about her being in pain, she doesn’t look well but maybe she has some conflicting thoughts. She should have been better written and she should have had more moments like that to make her character more complicated and not a question of being either this or that. People in real life have more of A, some have more of B, some are AB and some are BA and some are CD. Vickers felt more like A. . . . . b type (no pun), she had small variations in her personality but she was mostly distanced and authoritarian (case in point how she says ". . . and that makes you an employee" I think that she said it to Shaw).

To continue about Shaw they tried to give her some father issues with Weyland but that failed since I didn't care much for any of them but I guess that it was because of the editing and then the script so I don't blame the actors. Both Theron and Pearce seem to get roles so they must be somewhat qualified for what they do even though I haven't watched a lot of their movies. Vickers was authoritarian and Shaw was dumb ("that is what I choose to believe" let me tell you, this is science not a church). Sorry for the long paragraph

As far as mysteries in general not only tied to the alien franchise I think the idea that to uncover a mystery you need to give one more or two. This goes for both TV-shows, books, or movies. Take for example Star Wars, we get to know a bit about Jabba in 6 even though he was mentioned before that. In Star Wars 6 we saw a bit of what he was about but we didn't get to see everything about his gang so for example we didn't see a lot about his ties to the bounty hunters, we didn't get to see how his gang worked in general. You can ask if they were just on that planet? Did they have contacts elsewhere? How was their relation to the empire? You could look at Jabba as a being a non-human version of Al Capone if you want. This paragraph was written to show that this isn’t just tied to the alien-verse, it applies to many other things.

My post was about mysteries in general, of course the alien ones get mentioned since this is an alien-board but it doesn't have to be just about the alien-franchise. Like I said, Star Wars is a good example. Another one is the Lord of the Rings trilogy where we don't get to know everything about the various life-forms either which (with interesting surroundings) brings you that wonder. Don’t explain everything and do it in an intelligent way is important with art in general it seems to me.

Roger G: So he continues with the androids and thin human characters but in something else? That sounds boring, I won't bother with RBW just throw it away. I think that he should be a producer at best, keep him far away from the story.

Scott says a lot so it could be what ever. To me it seems that he isn't interested in the monster, it was obvios in Covenant. I don't care about the David story, I would rather see it thrown away because making it about a robot is boring no matter what kind of themes that you try to bring up. Raised By Wolves seems to have the same problems as AC namely too much about the robots and crappy human characters.

The Engineers seem interesting but if they try to make it about David again they still don't see why people weren't that excited about the prequels. Make a movie about AI if you want but keep it away from the Alien-franchise. Look at the decline from Prometheus to Covenant in profits, if they don't understand that many are not interested in a focus on a crazy robot it seems that they will make the same mistake again and ignore human characters which would mean another crappy alien movie. He can make his android movies if he wants but don't keep them in the alien franchise.

You can show variations of the monster and make it better tied to the Engineers. Don't make David the creator of it because that sucks. There is still room to show that David just made his lesser version, at least it would be better. To me it seems that it is Scott that is out of steam since he only cares about David and that gives us more disappointments in the franchise so it was better before he came back.

"Has the Alien himself, the facehugger, the chestburster, have they all run out of steam? Do you have to rethink the whole bloody thing and simply use the word to franchise?"

Try to expand the franchise isn't a bad idea, I mentioned some routes at the message board that they could take. You don't need to have the monsters in a lot of scenes since there are other ways to build tension. Alien 1 and 3 didn’t feature the monsters that much. What was scary in 1 and 3 is that they were abandoned and left on their own to fight a threat that they were ill-equipped to handle. Of course the Alien looks good but that isn't really why the movies are scary, it depends on the human characters and how they build tension. No, your android-crap has run out of steam.

Even though new things might be interesting I refuse to let the franchise be taken over by the robots just because that is the only thing that he cares about. Covenant became to a big extent mediocre at best because he only cared about David and Walter. Faris and Oram were alright, I wonder if that was luck though.

He should leave the franchise if he doesn't want to stop his AI take-over of it. Not to say that he is on some conspiracy trip but I don't watch it for AI/robots. Artificial things can be robots, computer-programs but what we have seen this far on that theme in the franchise is it being taken over by robots and that is so boring. No more David movies, to make the story about robots is trash even though he likes it. Sorry to those that find the robot thing interesting, this is not an insult to you personally this is just my opinion in case someone is taking offense. Prometheus and Covenant failed in a way and they were to a big extent based on Scott's ideas.

I'm not willing to give a third one a try if he's involved in the writing by giving crappy ideas. To have him involved in any way they need to:

1.Leave the writing to someone that understands the human part. Scott might be good with visuals but he doesn't seem to be a writer and should therefore stay away from the story. No one is good at everything

2.Have it less about androids, really. He only cares about David but Covenant ruined it because it was too much about him even though the differences between him and Walter were interesting. In the end of Covenant he was a space-Hitler and I am not interested in watching that especially if the protagonists are poorly written like they have been this far.

3.Bring us more about the Engineers

He can kind of say anything but it will be what Disney decides what to do. Not interested in a robot anything and people making stupid decisions type of movie. You think he would learn.  Also, I'm not sure this is him talking or Disney giving the OK.  Unfortunately I tend to believe the latter.  If Disney was smart a fresh perspective and direction.    

Nothing new.

Ridley said before Covenant: "Prometheus was mistake, we're going to take a new direction with the Covenant. This will be the beginning of a new trilogy."

Despite the fact that he wanted a trilogy with Prometheus.

Not so long ago, Scott spoke about the continuation of the Covenant and he said that the new film will once again be the beginning of a new trilogy.

Thus, we have the same scheme:

1) Declaring an old movie a mistake.

2) Reflections on a new direction.

3) Announcement of a new film and a new trilogy.

BigDave often says: how long can you repeat the same plot moves and show the same beast?

But I guess the only important question is: how long can you give up the sequel to the previous film and try to start from scratch?

This does, to an extent confirm that the third prequel may be focused more on AI rather than the aliens, which Ridley has said about before. Also, we could possibly see the third film being set around the origins of the derelict ship on LV 426, which will be interesting, a film based entirely around the engineers or other species above them would be a good idea to look at. However, for now it's just wait and see. 

@Michelle Johnston

What a truly profound question.

"what exactly is the sleeping pilot we meet in Prometheus capable of, indeed what is it?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuA-xqBw4jE

(always verify links before clicking on them for security..You can also go to youtube and look up the movie as well.)

This is the link to Youtube...for the video trailer for the movie called Life, released 2017. I like the ever increasing ominous tone of the movie and how the production team executed great special effects. $58 million production budget....I think this demonstrates that exceptional movies can be made with amazing science fiction horror and incredible tension.

This film scared the you know what out of me even as an adult.....with Prometheus you are at a petting zoo for little kids...the entire film is just not scary in any way.....the Hammerpede wrapped around the arm was interesting...

So for me when I see the engineer suit that is part of the body....so they might wear it like clothing. They can take layers off, but  when they apply one it digs in to their dermis and becomes part of them.....what do all the different layers do? Some of this should be left to the audiences imagination. With the full suit they can work in highly corrosive environments for example.....I think they were the ones to make the black goo and the Xeno...but that is how I would have made these films.

I would have made them a little taller too....15 foot minimum...and the suits are weapons for example...you see the acid for blood in the original alien....so in Prometheus I would have had the Engineer touch one of the humans and then they would have dissolved down rapidly into a pool of carbon very quickly just by touching them...those suits would produce food from sourced nano atoms around them and compile the finished nutrients right into the vascular systems....

This is all off the top of my head. I am sure if sat down and wanted to give this a proper treatment I could think of some things that would translate more effectively on the big screen.

The battle with the squid monster at the end was unforgivable....something like that and the engineer would have just touched it, secreted a substance so deadly it would made that thing wither, die, and shrivel up almost instantly melting all horribly down into the floor....these are billion year old creatures that have far surpassed the limits of molecular biology and the quantum mechanics of physics mixed with nano technology. To be subdued by something with physical appendages is a very sinful mistake to be making with the plot and characters. It makes a fool of the audience straight away in an unnecessarily aggressive way.

If you have not seen that movie Life or you have, I think it would be interesting to apply those qualities but then morph them into the suit/skin. The suit is that "frightening."

These are movies you can do almost anything with them with the right ideas. They can scare an audience so bad it would need group therapy right after LOL....Prometheus is clumsy, slow, juvenile, and has plot holes so bad you drive the Sulaco through them....with a staggering 130 Million dollar budget...maybe they bought very expensive coffee for the crew instead of producing a great scary Alien film instead....would be nice to see their ledgers....cause the money did not get spent on making real sci-fi entertainment.

This is no slight to RS either I know about the studio and the calls he got while in production...a lot of this was never his fault in any way what so ever. He wanted a much different treatment / taller Engineers and they told him no causing him to scrap a lot of ideas and sets. BD should be able to confirm that because he has more specifics on just how silly the studio was with the other sets RS wanted to build and film.

@BlackAnt

On the specific point of the Engineers appearance in the Movie.

The wake-up scene needed to make its point very quickly wonder to horror with the Trigger the Engineer mortally wounding Weyland with his creation. There is so much in that moment, the benediction, David's wonder, then the shock and the beautifully pathetic notion of the creator the wizened old man floored by the head which lies disembodied.

As for everything after that its one of the consequences of merely overlaying Jon Sphaits action beats replacing the Ultramorph by the Bad Tempered Big Guy. 

Both Paradise, the recent entwining of the two movies, and my remodelled novel cast all that aside. Indeed we leave all of the same material out bar Vickers.      

Much deeper into my story in the second part when creatures Billions of Years Old, who have mastered the secrets of the Universe, feel the need to lay the law down and exercise their power it does not involve chasing anyone around an escape pod. These are creatures that hold within their grasp the ability to shape worlds and catalyse life but then that poses another interesting question, what exactly is the sleeping pilot we meet in Prometheus capable of, indeed what is it?

@BlackAnt

Prometheus - The Movie

The more I listen to Ridley the more I hear the businessman lining up Trilogies. He talked about a set of Prometheus Movies he talked about a new set of Alien Movies.

To really answer your tactical points he should just make one great movie and leave it at that. That's not an original thought but the focus should be on telling a story that people come away from knowing something not all this leaving it out for the next movie. Jim Cameron is here in New Zealand making an Avatar Sequel good for him but we do not need one from a storytelling point of view. Avatar was a one night stand and a very entertaining one.

Mystery

This is more of the answer to thoughts and dreams. If you show a degraded holographic image of the past and some real-time artefacts, that creates mystery. It's just the former need to have some exposition that communicates.

When I wrote the scene of David in the Juggernaut I put the Jockey Station at the centre of the Bridge so the reader knew where they were (tick) and then revealed much more detailed and meaningful holograms which told a story. I am layering in the Engineers into the story. After the scene with the head, we know these guys are jockeys so let's get on with some more detail and flesh it out. There are far more clues. You have to have the balance of clues right with a mystery.   

When they enter the Headroom Sanctuary there isn't one mural, which you can barely see in the film, there are several of them which underwrites Steve Messing's point that the Deacon was the unholy progression of all that had come before. But it is still a place of mystery, of looking back into an ancient past. You want a mystery but you want a decent substantial question to ask. But what caused the Storm, the Urns to leak the Murals to disintegrate? That can be a mystery that no one even appreciates is happening. 

Janek's conversation with Vickers is important because what he says to her is actually the truth wrapped up in speculation. I gave Vickers a much more satisfying arc and that scene is important in the context of that and the "what's gone on here" vibe.

When you arrive at the Homeworld it's not downtown New York. You are looking back into the deep ancient past to see what happened. There is still a mystery.

If you have a proxy you can identify with and the right balance of clues its perfectly possible to offer a satisfying complex many-layered mystery. I would suggest that mode of storytelling is particularly suited to the philosophical questions that Prometheus poses. Indeed it's particularly suited to Prometheus because the ideas it is tackling in the real world are a mystery!!

We all learn slowly but surely what we like. I am pushed back by the obvious and drawn in by the subtle. Equally, when I write something I write that way.      

I am going to GET SLATED for this ;)

I have NOT seen Avatar yet, tried to watch it before and could not get into IT.   I do OWE it a viewing though.

Effects wise i think it was all SHINY and GLOSSY but a lot of it did look TOO CGI!   Some Scenes came across more PIXAR... as in the Na'vi and their World.   Now dont get me WRONG the CGI was Good and Vast on Scale but just looked more like a Borderline Between a Live Action Sci-Fi and a Pixar Movie.

But i cant PASS a Judgement on it until i have SEEN IT (instead of just not being able to pay attention).

The Avatar Story is ONE that is aimed at a Larger Audience than ALIEN so its NOT quite Fair to Compare them.

With Inflation the Avatar Budget would be Equal to about DOUBLE what Prometheus had... with a Big Budget you can add all sorts of SHINY EFFECTS and Explosions and Stuff like a Transformers Movie etc.

I think if we did a ALIEN Prequel Reboot and it had with Inflation something like a 300M Budget you could have loads of Flashy Effects... but it would depend on the STORY.

With loads of stuff like that you could Run the Risk of having a AVP meets Starship Troopers kind of Popcorn Flick.

I like Prometheus because of the POTENTIAL that the Plot had Unlocked, more so than HOW Great or Not the Actual Movie Execution was.

Looking roughly at AVATAR and the Plot as its Core (as far as i Understand) then you could have had that SET in the ALIEN Universe for sure...

Weyland-Yutani Company Discover a World and they WANT to gain Something from this Place for Financial Gain but the Planet has some Humanoid Inhabitants who are in their way?

So replace the Na'vi with Arcturians  and Follow a similar Plot to AVATAR and then say if AVATAR had never exisited then YES such a Movie could have Existed in the ALIEN Universe prior to the Prequels.

With the Prequel Plot then who is to say that there are NOT many Worlds out their with Humanoid Inhabitants who are a little Different to Humans and we see the Humans Greed as we TRY to Rape their World for Resources.

Prometheus had its Flaws.....  it had Potential to explore things BEYOND the Eggs and Queens...

In a IDEAL World then they should have INVESTED say $150M in a Sequel that would have taken us back to LV-223 that would have been more Popcorn Action Horror with Various Monsters and Clues to the Xenomorph that would have then CLOSED THE DOOR to ALIEN.

That via more Exploration of the Horrors that are Connected to the Xenomorph we have GIVEN the Xenomorph another String to its BOW..... something to Further Expand on if wanted.

It could have left a bit of Ambiguity and Intrigue towards the Engineers so Fans may want to know more about them and what other STUFF they Create.... and WHERE else have they tried to DESTROY...

Then we go and have another Sequel to Prometheus that goes to where David and Dr Shaw are off too... TAKE THEM to a FAR FAR place.... were we can cover more about the Engineers, the Creation Plot.... what other Races have they Created and OPEN UP a Expanded Franchise that does-not have to be about LV-426 and Xenomorphs.

But ALAS....  we never got this... FOX Buckled and Felt they had to give us a MOVIE which will Answer the Origins to the Xenomorph and give us Xenomorphs and SET-UP the Path to ALIEN but also that this had to also be a Movie about David.....

Instead of a TWO Branches Expansion to Prometheus as i discussed above.

A lot comes down to MONEY and it seemed FOX just never Fancied Risking a BIG BUDGET on the Franchise.... and with the MESS its in NOW then i am NOT Sure Disney would either.

I think maybe you could go and see the Engineers and have them going around with their Horrors and Technology but its a case of HOW does this NOT go and Conflict with the Franchise.... there seemed to be NO signs that we had been Hunted Down by a Angry Advanced Race of Humanoids...

If the Engineers are in Large Number and with more Weaponry than we have been Shown... it would be like the Colonial Marines vs Cavemen.

You could say that with AVATAR we have a Technologically Advanced Race vs a RACE that is NOT..... However the Na'Vi seem to have the Numbers Game and are Physically more Superior to Humans.

The Danger with the Engineers is they look Equally as Superior as the Na'Vi with more Advanced Technology than the Humans.  If say the Na'Vi World was one the Engineers wanted and they Wanted to RID this Place of them.....  Then the Juggernauts and Black Goo would DESTROY them with Ease.... the same applies to US.

If the Engineers had other kinds of Advanced Weapons

Then it would also NOT be a Fair Fight.... unless some of that Tech was USED against them.

So when Exploring Engineers with a Dislike for Mankind who are coming to Destroy us... the Likely thing to BALANCE the Books is the Engineers bringing with them something like the Xenomorph that they LOOSE CONTROL over and Turns on them.

"Seriously the more movies that we get the more likely it is that they will be crappy not only in quality of the movies but we would also get a messed up timeline."

Absolutely i think ANY Franchise can Suffer if we keep on Churning out Sequels and Prequels and Especially if its not a SET IN STONE Series so that Each New Addition the New Writers and Directors put their OWN spin on it.

Even Reboots dont always work....

This comes down to Alien 3 and its Problems... there was too many Cooks in the Kitchen a Developmental Nightmare, but over all i think its a Movie that Grows on you ONCE you look past some of the Flaws... for me the EFFECTS are NOT to the Standard Expected.... but it Concluded the Story of Ripley and i felt it was Decent.

The Disappointment with some of the Effects Aside... the Biggest BUG i have with Alien 3 was merely down to the Plot Device to get the Eggs... it was like a Convenience with NO thought whats so ever...

I feel whats DONE is DONE..... so with Ripley she is DEAD... move ON!   But Ripley 8 well thats something they COULD choose to Explore.

I will have to take a look at Alien Earth Hive but i think bringing the Xenomorph to Earth Plot wise has its Risks. I have not checked out that Story though or many Novels so maybe i need to and Appreciate them or Dislike them as Alternative Canon.

"This, it would be like first A didn't happen so they write B and then for some reason someone else in the future says that no B didn't happen so they write C, and so on"

This is MY GREATEST Concern with Disney in Power over the Franchise and indeed the Greater Risk of doing any kind of RETCON, REBOOT or Dreams.

If Fans want their Xenomorphs.... they did NOT have to have DIED OUT with the Destruction of Hadleys Hope or the USM Auriga.  

You dont have to Reboot etc anything to GET the Xenomorph back and you CERTAINLY should not be trying to Reboot anything to bring back Ripley.

One other Thing!

HUMAN CHARACTERS......

Indeed for the Most Part you Need them and this is what Causes a Problem with Expansion as far as WHAT ELSE the Engineers have Created etc....   take Avatar would a World like that and Movie had Worked if we NEVER had any Humans in it?

If the Plot to Avatar was in the Future Humans had been Wiped Out on Earth by Advanced Apes (Planet of the Apes) and these Apes replaced the Humans in Avatar then this WOULD effect HOW Connected we are with the Movie so it maybe would not WORK as well.

So the Necessity for Humans does kind of HOLD BACK to what you can do..... its One of the Reasons for maybe giving us a Alien Covenant Plot where some Human Colonist can END UP on the World that David and Dr Shaw had got to, and thus making Planet 4 closer to HOME for Plot Convenience.

Because well a Movie about a Android David and ONE Human in Dr Shaw is NOT going to be Enough Humans for maybe a Movie to Work... well to gain Interest from a Wider Audience.

BUT..... this is Merely the Limitations of the Imaginations and Consideration to the Engineers Plot of those working on a Prometheus 2!

Do the Engineers look like a Species who would PUT all of their EGGS in ONE Basket?  (Pun Intended)

Are we Humans on Earth just a ONE OFF?

There could be other Humanoids.. surely

When using Star Trek as a Example.... we see some of these Humanoids are NOT too Close to Humans so maybe a Movie with them and NO Humans is something that Fans maybe WONT be able to Relate to?

But some are Very Close (Bajoran, Vulcan) but again maybe Fans wont relate to them, well you would still NEED to have Humans!

Well here is the THING..... what is to say that the Engineers had not Seeded Humans Elsewhere or had taken some from Earth to other Worlds in the Past?

Battlestar Galactica/Caprica and Star Wars had Humans and NONE of these came from Earth ;)

And so you could have a Movie or TV Series thats SET in the ALIEN Universe with Humans who have NEVER been to Earth, or their Ancestors did Thousands of Years ago.

Can we even SAY within Context to the Alien Franchise... that Humans came from Earth?  We could have been taken to the Earth many many Thousands of Years ago.

So thats something they COULD have Considered!  Its what i did for my Idea in 2013 to where Dr Shaw and David would END UP ;)

@Thoughts_Dreams

Good Points..... i think that INDEED there are MANY avenues to HOW you could Expand something within the ALIEN Universe or even do something NEW within it.

I think the PROBLEM that is Faced with the Franchise (Original Quadrilogy) is getting people to LOOK BEYOND what they THINK what would Constitute the ALIEN Franchise.

*The Alien Franchise was about Ripleys Saga but that does not mean the Franchise has to be about her and there is NOTHING ALIEN about her.... Apart from Ripley 8 ;)

*The Franchise had Corporate/Scientific Greed and Agenda to OBTAIN the Xenomorph, but it Delt with TWO Companies... but these are NOT ALIEN.

*The Franchise had Androids but again these are NOT ALIEN.

*The Franchise in EVERY MOVIE had Featured the Xenomorph and this was INDEED ALIEN.

But there was ANOTHER Aspect of ALIEN that was a Extension of the Xenomorph that had its Origins, which was the Derelict and Space Jockey and these were ALIEN.

So if we look at the Space Jockey as being ALIEN too, then the Prequels showing us they are the Engineers who are a ALIEN species should Constitute anything about them as being ALIEN, which also includes anything LINKED to LV-223 which is a Precursor to LV-426

So we can Safely Say that IF there was No Engineers on LV-223 doing those kinds of Experiments or having the Black Goo then there would be NO ALIEN.

And so the Vanilla Xenomorph we got in the Franchise is NOT the First, and does not have to be the LAST kind of Alien Horror that is OUT THERE in the Galaxy thats Connected to the Xenomorph Ancestry.

But INDEED the Franchise can Expand Further than just what came from LV-223, but its a Case of would some Fans consider such a Venture as being part of the ALIEN Franchise?

I think what gets me is SOME FANS would maybe NOT consider something that goes to WHAT ELSE the Engineers had Created thats NOT connected at all to LV-223/LV-426.

However if they got a Colonial Marines Spin Off that does-not even have Xenomorphs or similar they would Consider that as a ALIEN Movie by Virtue of the Marines. 

I think there is a LOT you could Expand and Explore with the Franchise.

"New vaccines were mentioned in AR, maybe they could try to use the Xeno for medical purposes"

I think thats something to look at YES, because as a Bio-Weapon its Certainly not the BEST.... Horrific Certainly but the Negatives outweigh the Positives for me.

Thats WHY i did a Topic before to look at the Reason for the Pursuit of the Xenomorph and Purpose.  And when we look at RIPLEY 8 you can see the HUGE Benefits that the Xenomorph DNA has given her.   She essential is FAR more Superior than a Replicant...   We got to see the Engineers in Prometheus vs Alien Covenant and those in Prometheus look Genetically Advanced/Engineered and maybe the Black Goo or what Predated that is something that was USED to Engineer those Prometheus Goons!

From a Military Perspective them a Army of Ripley 8's would be better than Xenomorphs.... there is ONE Problem.... that is FREE-WILL and also Genetic Memory.   These are Recipes for your Super Soldiers to go AWOL.

The Problem we have which could be with other AVENUES to Expand the Franchise is such a PLOT (Super Soldiers using Ripley 8 DNA) would not be Accepted or gain a Interest from some Fans because it has no Xenomorphs.

@Thoughts_Dreams

I completely understand that....the duality of seeing it play out then the vividness from the other senses.

I liked how they scanned the structure of the helmet the WiZZZZZZ and sounds of the computers then the medical electrical device to trick the cells into accepting the electrical charge change states....very interesting stuff to be sure.

That is the best thing about movies, is that your mind fills in the gaps of what you think should be there so it can really come alive....obviously we all know it's just actors and props; but, they were so good that bunch in that movie...for just a few minutes it is exceptional art that transports you to another place. 

Great art can do that.....there is something always more than the sum of the parts....that is the real magic of great movies.

Black Ant

I would like to have seen more of the Engineers in Prometheus because they were interesting. Prometheus was somehow successful as far as profits are concerned because it was the first alien related movie in a while and also Scott was back. One problem is that we should have had more of them because it was kind of disappointing and hence not as many people saw Covenant. Even if Prometheus would have been a success they should have had a bit more of the Engineers if it wouldn't have made as much money. They should have been better explained in Prometheus so maybe more people would have liked to see them in Covenant and also we would maybe have had them in more scenes other that David bombing them.

You mentioned when they examined the Engineer head and it exploded. That scene didn't scare me but it felt kind of icky because imagine the possible stench and also I imagined it being kind of sticky like their equivalent of how humans have fluid that surround their brains. It didn't make me scream it was more like "eew!!" but it always feels more disgusting when I think about it compared to when I see it in the movie.

@Michelle Johnston

I think that is well a very accurate well worded summation of these films. 

I am stuck on the genius of RS though carried through these other films muted very badly by rough scripts and penny pinching studios...RS took us through the haunted house and I was always along for the ride...but audiences do not get these slower films....it does mean they are wrong they are just different films for different reasons artistically.

Prometheus could have been much better than Avatar....although I like Avatar artistically for purely aesthetic reasons lets be completely honest the acting is less then stellar.....and the special effects carry that film a whole lot.

Could Prometheus have had more action sequences and for TLOG.....could we have had some real interaction with the Engineers!!!! AHH it litterally makes you want to scream...the reason for the film plot wise is to go meet these Engineer GODS!!! and they are set decorations essentially....they are treated as plot devices when they are the purpose for the film and at the end of the film it is the worst....one is just running around CHASING DR. SHAW!!!! and these are several billion year old aliens that made us....

It all makes no sense and as much as I like BD, and I know he will defend this film to the end, I sometimes really hate how we all were just royally S@$%#! ED over in this film....if it was not the dialog it was the plot....if not the plot it was the treatment the Engineers were given....like I said before I think almost every frame of that film is stunning....beautiful....the sets were very cool ect....but, the monsters and the slow pace.....been there done that with so many many many of these films....we deserved better and RS should have delivered. But he did not.  

The scene where they analyse the Engineer head was the best thing I have seen in Sci-fi. If I had to pick on thing out of all the sci-fi movies I have ever seen it would be that one. If only the rest of the film could have had that type of creativity...the second best scene is when David peers into Dr. Shaw's dream....I think RS gets that so right on so many levels....like I said some things in that film are so incredible....the map room when the 3D holomap appears on the Juggernaut...

I know when they examine the engineer head RS is just rehashing his scene with the tension created by the face hugger with Kane when Ash and Dallas are trying to remove it....we all get that but I don't care it is still one of my favorite scenes of all time in all of sci-fi....very transcendental work as great as it will ever be done in all of any type of artwork!

But over-all the movie as a whole is a rough draft....it should not have been written and produced that way....they had so many talented and gifted people to work with and so much equipment, those incredible sets....it was somehow wasted.

I think that she (that's a queen, right?) is hungry.

"That was the last carrot! Damn you rabbit for stealing my dinner!" :D

Leto: I Agree that Alien R isn't that good, I totally disagree about Alien 3 though. I read a bit about the Alien thing that you mentioned and maybe that could happen in another part of the universe that would have nothing to do with Alien 3 so it would not replace Alien 3 but just be there in some place and time. To me it is not an empty canon kind of thing, I just don't see how it can be improved. 3 is not a clumsy mistake, it is great especially when you look at the circumstances that it was made under.

"The very concept of the canon is a plague."

Nah, if it gives us a time-line with an opening, action, and an end and if it manages to get it right it is good and should be left alone. If you would erase this then it would be a risk that you get endless continuation after let's say Aliens and then what even matters? I am a kind of person that like to keep things in order and to have things in a logical way and if you would do like what you suggest it would end up in chaos and then also if the next movie would stink it would make things worse. Seriously the more movies that we get the more likely it is that they will be crappy not only in quality of the movies but we would also get a messed up timeline.

It is not about being forced, it's about keeping things in a logical way. Alien 1 to 3 was Ripley's story even though some might dislike it and it had a fitting end in Alien 3.

"In this case, you will never get rid of the poisonous and toxic notes about Alien 3."

Alien 3 is my favorite, I would rather keep it. I read a bit about Earth Hive, it didn't do much for me. There are many people that like 3 and if you would change that it will piss them off also or at least make them disappointed and get more that dislike where things are going. In case you are wondering just look at the prequels.

"A 28-year-old mistake must be fixed!"

You might call it a mistake, I call it a fitting closure. To me it would most likely be a failure if they would try to replace Alien 3, I just don't see how it can be improved and yes I would most likely be disappointed. It is more likely that we will get another AVP than another Alien as far as quality goes so I am 75% against it and 25% in favor of it if you wonder.
Also if you replace Alien 3 with something else you might as well do that to Alien 1 and 2. I don't see how Alien 1 and 2 should get a special treatment just because they are classics while 3 should be ignored because to me 3 is up there with one and two.

To continue with the idea of replacing things you might also think about it like this: someone somewhere how unlikely that even might be prefers the prequels over the originals so they might want to replace the classics because they don't follow their wished ideas of the prequels. If you would go on like this you might end up with 28 different timelines (obviously an exaggeration, I know) then the franchise would be meaningless so it would become a joke and should as well be abandoned. Also it would open up things to be retconned and reused 100 times over and get really boring. No one will ever be satisfied is my point so let it all be the way it is now.

Earth-Hive seems like a mix of Aliens and AVP in tone. I am not interested in that, sorry, besides we already have Aliens. Time for something new, for example the Engineers.

If they decide to go on with Ripley they should do a reboot, not continue with where the Ripley-movies are now.
"Personally for me..... i am NOT a FAN of the Dreams Angle.... it can just give Disney a Lazy Excuse to just Re-write stuff over and over and over...." - BD

This, it would be like first A didn't happen so they write B and then for some reason someone else in the future says that no B didn't happen so they write C, and so on.

You have a point here, that is why I like the addition of the Engineers. Eventually there could be different Engineers or at least variations of them both in how they look (just like some some people have curly hair while some people don't) and how they live. The Arcturians were mentioned in Aliens but we have never seen them in any movie so there's potential there. Maybe they could introduce another sort of life-form or civilization that they could at least have in books. Eventually you could have different civilizations that are involved in an arms race where the Xeno could play a small role, just to link them together, it doesn't mean that it has got to be the focus.

It would be like Xeno --> colony (aliens) arcturians get mentioned, who are they? --> a movie or book about the arcturians, maybe they have been to other planets so you could write about that. They would be spin-offs but I think that you need something that ties them together, what ever that might be and also don't put a lot of contradicting stuff in it. Just show that it's in the alien-universe so people don't get confused like some might have been with Lindelof when he said something like "is this an alien movie?" bla bla bla. Have it in the alien universe but be honest and say that's the case if so otherwise it's annoying.

Coming up with new planets is something that I think that prequels did right, so you could open up the franchise a little. Who knows what those planets might have?

Prometheus for all its faults opened up for new things by having the Engineers. Maybe there's a possibility to add even more life-forms? The central thing to tie them all together should be the human experience and terror, but other than that there could be other things added to it.

Maybe there's a possibility to go back to old books to find inspiration and see that there's a possibility to make new worlds, and lifeforms. There have been famous authors that have dealt with things like that. Not to say that you should copy them but it's possible to find inspiration and to alienize that.

At the same time maybe they need to have a story group or what ever that makes sure that it doesn’t turn into chaos and a lot of contradictory things at least as far as the official things are concerned. To me movies are official, the rest is expanded universe.

For future projects I hope that they won't drop the Engineers. Hopefully they understand that they can be part of other things.

Maybe there's a possibility to come up with something that's in competition with WY. The corporate angle is something that could be expanded on. What about if they try to focus on a world where they have huge privatized army that WY or another company uses to explore the galaxy. Those corporations could have somewhat different means to try to conquer things so it could be interesting to see how they differ towards each-other.

New vaccines were mentioned in AR, maybe they could try to use the Xeno for medical purposes and not only for bio-weapons. I'm not sure how this could be expanded. If they weren't to be used as bio-weapons then maybe they could be used for something else like how viruses can be used for different purposes. A misuse of science for own private gains could be a theme that can be explored more.

What about having a spin-off where the theme is the justice-system? A privatized jail-system, police and so on. Yes we had the prison planet in Alien 3 but maybe that could be expanded on. We already have private security companies so that would not be a very huge stretch when you think about it. The theme could be what people can do when they are in it for their own gains and don't care about anyone else. My guess is that the theme of greed can be dealt with in different ways even in the alien-franchise.

We have the colonial marines, they can also be brought into this. They are a part of humanity as a whole and could also be there to show us that even though for example new planets, and new monsters are parts of it it's still about the human experience.

Maybe they could have a story where the black goo is used. I'm not sure how that would be but at least it's something that the prequels have given us. What about if some factions try to make it more perfect and try to make it into an even better weapon.

This whole post is about eventual ways that they could expand the franchise so we don't have the Xeno involved in everything. Perhaps there could be different morphs or at least something that lets you know that it's in the alien-franchise. Expanding it while making it clear that it's in the alien franchise might be difficult but it has got to be done, don't be too vague about it.

In this post I have tried to bring up the Engineers, WY, military, corporations, prisons, arcturians, the black goo and how it could be used in different stories, other life forms and civilizations. My point is that there are old things that can be expanded on and new things that can be introduced while having the human experience at the center of it.

Jonesy deserves credits, he survived a close encounter with the Xeno. Close encounters with the Xeno-kind. :D

Most of the humans died, the cat survived and lived the rest of his life happy ever after at the space station (Aliens, at least I hope that he did).

I wonder what Scott or Weaver would say if they heard that song? This is a serious question, I say that it is probably not that common to make a song about an animal in a movie. My guess is that it is more common to write pictures or make books that are alien related.

Speaking of the Prodigy, they should do a techno song when they sample Brett when he said something like

"Jonesy, meoww, that kitty stuff" and have it here and there in the song.

BD

I am not even sure what Scott thought of the work that Spaights did. There are some scripts that I have read and they are better than the final result. Judging from what I have read I prefer the Spaight's version because they seem more down to earth and less mystery just for the sake of having mystery. Not to say that everything has to be obvious but I am not sure if Lindelof contributed with a lot even though he did better work compared to what was the final movie but at the same time getting a better movie than the final result shouldn't be too difficult even though it's a masterpiece compared to Batman and Robin and AVPR. :D

They should have had more monsters that were closer to the Xeno without it being a Xeno, other than the Deacon at the end. As much as I think that the Engineers is an interesting idea they should have made more sense of them in the movie but that might have to do with mysteries by Lindelof.

Ford didn’t have a big part but I think that they should have done better with her character. She wasn’t annoying as far as I remember it but I am not sure if she contributed with anything. As far as I know she was as (non)important to the story as the mercenaries that Weyland had.

Vickers was a bit bitchy but at least she wasn’t stupid like Shaw. I probably like Vickers more than Shaw but both characters should have been better written and executed on the screen. There were some extra material with Vickers in it, they should have added some of that to flesh out her personality.

You added some interesting things in your writing. Milburn and the chestbusting, it would be cool if we would have seen something like the tentacles shooting out through the body like the concept art of Holloway I think that it was. Here is the picture that I mentioned:

That was supposed to be Holloway, or am I mistaken? No matter who the character was. That would be cool to see instead of the eyeworm which wasn’t very impressive although the thought of having a parasite inside is nasty. Speaking of the eyeworm there is such a thing, it is called Thelazia which you can read about if you want.

"It would have given us a INDICATION that the Hammerpede had LAID a Egg in Milburn that then Produces a New Monster"

For a reason this reminds me of the flies which can lay eggs into human beings and animals, you can read about it at Encyclopedia Britannica. The process is called myiasis and seems to very very icky.

DK

Speaking of the RT scores I find it… interesting. You have the critics and what they say and then you have the audience's scores. The audience's score for Prometheus sits at 68% and the one for Covenant is 55%. I agree somehow with the score of Covenant even though I still find it to be too high as far as my taste goes but it is closer to what I would rate it while I don't get the score for Prometheus at all.

My rate for both movies would probably be 40% because the characters are either mostly annoying or just don't bring much to the story (Prometheus), or uninteresting (Covenant, most of them). Eventually the actors did what they could so I blame it on the script and the editing in both cases. How can movies with such for the most part crappy characters get a rating that high? Sure they look good but most of the characters. . . are disappointments. Art is subjective and people sure can have and should be allowed to have different opinions but sometimes I just shake my head at how people rate things.

To all that have that have given your ideas here: I appreciate all of your replies, feel free to add more if you want to.

Thoughts_Dreams 

On the broad thrust of your question, I like unexplored vista's which draw you in but never quite answer your question always leaving more. Probably because that is how life is, people are, puzzling inscrutable and life is a journey to understanding who we are and then what is going on around us and how we come to terms with that. 

In the case of the Alien films as someone who watched them real-time, I thought the texture ALIEN passed through was full of mystery. To begin we had a craft from some faraway world which had landed and the explorer came across this Cave full of thousands of Ovoids. That really didn't need explaining, the pilot made the same mistake the Nostromo did but then a few years later the Cave was the Cargo Bay and there was a relationship between the Pilot and its Cargo. Where was it going what were its intentions, what went wrong? 

The subsequent films were by degrees entertaining, mixed and kitsch but there was no mystery there was merely function. Nothing surprised and they were carried by Signorney and in the case of Aliens a director who knew how to make the subject matter bigger and more entertaining.

Prometheus

Jon Sphaits would have delivered a dovetail, a march to the inevitable removing all the mystery. But Ridley saw the creation story as a chance to solve one mystery and create many more. 

I loved the way Prometheus worked, the answers came from elliptical analogy and visual messages. The intercut between "what killed them" and David opening the glass vial and revealing the Black Tar liquid a simple clue. 

People like to present Prometheus as confused but if you listen to Jon talking about Damon's ideas in the documentary they are one single voice. 

All of them were aware of the risk of hijacking peoples childhood memories and they produced a Cult One off Movie which Damon anticipated as a possibility in the commentary. 

But it set up wonderful mysteries to ponder and offered some terrifying possibilities which are so grave people never discuss them it's almost too big. What if we were created by dark angels for the sheer hell of it which bleeds into the great undertow of the movie that drove everything Hubris. All of them were hubristic Weyland most of all but Charlie, Elizabeth and David who let things run away from him, the clever adolescent who gets his head removed as a consequence of his smugness. 

So we are left forever with the great mystery, what would Elizabeth have arrived at to get her answers. Answers that don't matter according to David and answers that David already knows the answer to. The irony is David may know the most but he has no idea where he fits in. Given other things Ridley has said the answer is no different to the truth for Elizabeth. So if they are a footnote what is the big note and that to me is a great mystery to be left with. 

If we are the result of fallen angels swirling around in a Petri Dish whats the real deal.  

BlackAnt In short, I think Prometheus would have been a great movie if it was not related to the Alien franchise at all and the characters were better written. Back to the OP- the sense of mystery turned into frustration and cliff hangers. 

The first few Alien movies had a sense of mystery partly because we didn't expect sequels back then. 

In hindsight, while the prequels definitely had their strengths, they just felt unsatisfying when the dust settled. Maybe I just don't get it, but the Rotten Tomatoes numbers seem to be on my side. It's too bad because I really wanted to like these movies.

Side note: The RBW trailers mention Scott's movies such as Alien, Gladiator and The Martian but not Prometheus, Covenant or even Blade Runner. Interesting...

@BD

All very interesting points and counter points you raise…I like where you are going with a lot those explanations why they went there linking it all to how they may or may not find the engineers.

I would like to add that RS makes impressive large set pieces, going all the way back to Alien, that takes a long time for the actors to walk through slowing the pace of the film down.

So these films all have different action sequences where RS takes the audience on a different haunted house ride.

There are a few points though that would be interesting as well to figure out why the writers, producers, and RS did what they did in Prometheus when related to other recently released sci-fi films. I know you want to discuss specific plot details of Prometheus but at some point it becomes less  useful a tool artistically when discussing films unless you compare this film with other works closely related in the genera. 

Please keep in mind that Prometheus comes out three years after Avatar, and Avatar pulls in the most money of any film ever made at the time 2009. Please keep all those very important details in mind because they are relevant to how RS might could have introduced bigger action sequences and then into other Alien movies so audiences will enjoy the films better and also want to see more special effects similar to those in Avatar like movies….in other words Prometheus 2012 could have earned a billion and half dollars if RS really knew what he was doing.

However, RS chose to make a big slow clunky haunted house plot that actors walked through with cheap special effect gags in them and even more horrible dialog….they produced the seen with the Hammerpede for next to nothing. That was some really cheap special effects compared to the anything closely related to Avatar…I believe they could have gone larger and bigger in Prometheus without making it cartoonish. So I do disagree on specific plot points and the box office receipts prove what I say as well as the millions of people around the world that liked Avatar much more….after coming out the movie theaters from Prometheus many movie goers said they not only disliked the film but they were done with the franchise and would not like to see another film again…..these are not my opinions these are the facts from millions of other real people around the world.

I was impressed that Prometheus could earn a half billion dollars for such low quality film plot wise and with far less impressive special effects.

Now I will always defend RS on the visual aesthetics of Prometheus. Prometheus is a great looking film….it is a very interesting film visually….however it is very slow and boring and the many of the monsters look terrible and are not scary…but once again do not take my word for it….we are talking in terms of real box office receipts and what millions of movie goers had to say about Prometheus overall.

This is not always accurate but it is indicative of what I have just pointed out in general.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/prometheus_2012

Audience Score 68% User rating – 263,170 movie goers….

Contrast this all with what you saw in Avatar and just try to imagine how some of it could have been carried over and done better in Prometheus is all I am saying.

Avatar remains the highest-grossing movie at the international box office (i.e., not counting its domestic gross), with a take of $2.029 billion compared with Endgame's $1.936 billion).Jul 23, 2019

So no matter what characterizations you are presenting it makes little difference if the film is so poorly received and able to understand because of poor writing, plot and other details that the studios will not be able to make another film….compared to what Avatar earned and the way people liked it around the world.

But I guess RS got us again…..and if you are one of those people that enjoys slow walks with a lot of boring useless dialog through the haunted house then this is your movie….

Unfortunately for me I like those boring walks too, hate to say that, but it is the truth….however, I also want the big expensive special effects that look real cool and that interest me artistically because I enjoy good movie making in general.

So it looks like we are in the same boat somewhat on this film…we don’t have the real need to say this film could have done so much more. Then again we will see what happens in the future if these films ever get made again….the studio that owns the film rights now has so many other big action sci-fi films to make in the lineup that can earn tens of billions of dollars in the way fans want to be entertained….guaranteed. Prometheus was a huge gamble and after advertising was still disappointing in overall gross proceeds.

So no matter what you or I think about how great these films were or not so great on some of these points there are just too many other films audiences would rather see that will earn this studio tens of billions for the foreseeable future.

However, should there be one of those really spectacular writers out there and a very professional director that might one day put out a screen play that could be turned into real money due to evolving movie goers expectations you can bet your bottom dollar it won’t be a slow walk through the big haunted house sets that consistently earn less money for this studio and that fans do not want to see anymore.

We got something very unique and interesting with Alien 1979…..it is and shall be one of the great epic sci-fi horror films fore decades to come….who knows maybe even a after both of us are gone other keen movie aficionados might still appreciate it's finer artistic qualities.

"Their power is an illusion they are false gods."

I would thoroughly recommend Paradise. It is well crafted and gives both elements more weight. The entwining of the discovery of Elizabeth's grave with Elizabeth's story is beautifully done. 

The musical choices, actually playing Country Roads into the Africa Scene and the end titles add the right emotional echo. The former full of pathos and the latter turning the ending into a Black Satire.

Not only do both elements "gain" but the actual choice of material from each is the key storytelling beats. The elements from the movie are the same ones I used for "Furious Gods." the only element missing is the Vickers scenes but the end of her arc implies the same outcome. It's good to see that material away from the rest.

I haven't watched Covenant for a long time but the drab, uncomfortable, tired atmosphere of the long journey comes through well. 

Tenessee's wife and her hysteria is still noticeable and the female is it Rosenthal a mere "Red Shirt" is even further back. Katherine and Billy give lovely understated nuanced performances which come over better. 

There are no monster moments from Prometheus except Charlie and Elizabeth and the NeoMorph comes off well. 

As the storytelling is sharper because of the overlap, it's somehow more obvious that Dave is just a robot gone wrong.

The Xenomorph is kept to the minimum which has more impact and reduced to the action on the Covenant a definite improvement.

It gives you a fresh perspective to look at the best material from.