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Michelle JohnstonAlien: Covenant ForumPrometheus : Theodicy

@Shadow275

Many thanks for your interest. This takes you straight in. 

https://prometheuscontinuationstory.com

I hope you enjoy it and please bear in mind Michael Fassbender's remarks made at the time of Prometheus that what you see in ALIEN is a small tributary of a much bigger story, so this is a story the creature comes into not a story about the creature.    

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dkAlien: Romulus 2 NewsDisney is locking away all Alien films in its Vault

It seems obvious the franchise is vaulted until Disney figures out how to monetize its new property. It feels like a dog in the manger attitude- the property is theirs, they don't know what to do with it or might not even care now, but they sure won't let any other people have a crack at it.

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Shadow275Alien: Covenant ForumPrometheus : Theodicy

I would love to read this if it still available, it sounds like an awesome concept

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BigDaveAlien: Covenant ForumAlien All-stars Challenge

I am going to be a bit Awkward here as i know this is just for Fun... but i guess i have to keep with the SYNOPSIS

"Following the events of Alien Covenant Weyland-Yutani received a priority transmission from the USCSS Covenant claiming to be David on route to Origae-6."

Right so we take it this is SET after Alien Covenant so for me i will RULE-OUT the Covenant Crew!

Its a case of do they send in a Ship where the Crew know about the Advent... or do they send in a bunch of Fall Guys?

I am going to ASSUME that ALIEN and on-wards have NOT happened at this point.... and the Covenant is DUE to Origae-6 as intended and thus will arrive in the Year  2112.

But to NOT spoil the FUN i think from here its assemble a Team of ONE per Movie and to assume these Selected Crew Members are at the AGE they were in the Movies they appeared in... but at this AGE in the year 2108-2110

So here we go...

Alien) I would go with Parker as a Engineer (not the Bald 8ft Kind) Kane as (Medical/Science Officer), Ash (Corporate Representative)

Aliens). I would go with Ferro (Pilot), Sergeant Apone, (Military Team Leader),  Corporal Hicks (Military Team 3rd in Command), Private Frost, Vasquez (Military Team) Burke (WY Representative)

Alien 3). Clemens (Medical), Andrews (Ship Vice Captain), Dillon (Military Team), Morse (Ships Admin), Gillas (Science Assistant), Dr Matshuita (Science Surgeon)

Alien Resurrection). Elgyn (Pilot/Captain), Hillard (Pilot) Dr. Wren (Science Team Leader), Dr. Gediman (Biologist), Dr. Williamson (Science Team), Johner (Military Team 2nd Command), Vriess (Mechanic) Christie (General Ship Assistant), Distephano (Military Team)

Prometheus).  David (as in his AI uploaded to Walter at some point).

Alien Covenant). Walter as they would take a Synthetic

Likely have a FEW more members of Crew such as 1-2 more Scientist and additional Medical Team Member

The Mission would be to arrive in Hiding Near by Orogae-6 and wait for the Covenant to Arrive and begin to Carry Out what ever David would intend next.

They would attempt to place some Crew on the Covenant while David is on the Surface and then send another Team down to Capture David....

Scientific Curiosity, Corporate Greed and a David Doppelganger would lead to PROBLEMS for the Crew.

Pilots/Captain

Elgyn (Captain), Ferro, Hillard

General Ship Duties

Andrews (Warrant Officer) Morse, Dillon*, Christie* (Security)

Engineering/Mechanic

Parker, Vriess

Medical Team

Clemens, Kane, Gillas

Science Team

Dr. Wren, Dr Matshuita, Dr. Gediman, Dr. Williamson

Corporate Representatives

Burke, Ash

Military/Security

Apone (Sergeant), Johner (Luetenant),Hicks (Corperal), Frost, Vasquez, Distephano

Synthetic

Walter

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BigDaveAlien: Romulus 2 NewsDisney is locking away all Alien films in its Vault

I think that kind of SUCKS!

I do WORRY will attempt to Monopolize the Franchises it Obtained from FOX, if it produces more Movies and TV Series on say Alien and Predator and then LIMITS these to ONLY be watched via Disney Streaming Services that would SUCK!

I am still Very Concerned about the Franchise under the CONTROL of those at Disney!  I wonder what kind/style of Content and Movies they would WANT to release in Future in Context to ALIEN.

I dont think they would want to EXPLORE stuff like how RS had intended with Prometheus 2, and the Back-Lash over Alien Covenant i would NOT be surprised we got some kind of Re-boot Prequels...  Queens and Ripley links etc.

I would NOT be surprised if the Franchise goes into a VAULT!

So they can then REMAKE the Entire Franchise... with maybe a Ripley Cast by someone else?   And to REVOLVE around Xenomorphs and Queens..

If they then Re-Make the Space Jockey maybe we would get some 15ft

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BigDaveAlien: Covenant ForumALIEN: ALPHA

Right... i never intended this to be a Derelict/Cargo Hold Debate, but i can expand on this and FIT it to the OT.

My previous Post and another prior where i Calculate the Derelict would have to be between 1.75-2.0 X Height (2.0-2.5 X Width) to FIT the Pilot Chamber and Cargo Hold.....   So it 100% would NOT FIT as shown.

This leaves us with 4 OPTIONS..

1) Purely a Oversight, that we have to Accept, maybe we just have to Accept the External Shot where the Crew Enter the Derelict.. is NOT to the Correct Scale and the Ship Externally is Larger.

2) The Space Jockey Race have a Technology like Dr Who with the TARDIS where the Internal Dimensions are Larger than the External... or that when anything Enters the Ship they are SHRUNK....

3) Separate Underground Cargo Hold that the Ship would DOCK with.  The SHIP however looks like it is Perched in a Fashion that looks ODD to be Docked.. 

This could be explained as the Ship had Attempted to Disconnect and so became either somewhat LOOSE but could not TAKE OFF (Pilot Chest Busted) or it had started to TAKE OFF but then Crashed Right back on top of the Cargo Hold (Pilot Chest Busted)

A Prequel Re-boot or Visit to the Derelict could indicate as such as OPTION 3...

However.... what i had mentioned a FEW times in the past is...

4) Separate Detachable Cargo Hold..... bare with me on this.. so OK do we accept the Cargo Hold was designed to Contain/Transport the Eggs

i) If thats so then in Context to it being PART of the Ship, then HOW do they Deploy the Bio-Weapon?  Drop the Eggs from ABOVE?  Can the Eggs Survive the Impact

Does the Ship LAND on the Surface and then HOW do the Eggs Get Deployed?  Seems Rather Risky unless there is some Automated Process.... 

Is this a Suicide Mission, the Ship Lands and its Intention is to Remain until all the Eggs have Infected the World.. (Where does the Space Jockey Stay?).

ii) If we have a Separate Underground Egg Cargo Hold then what was the Purpose of the Derelict?  Had it been Carrying something that is Transported from somewhere on the Ship to the Underground Cargo Hold?  Or was it attempting to Collect some Eggs and store them in some place on the Derelict?

Again this is Risky... where does the Ship Store the Eggs it obtains from the Cargo Hold?  In some other Areas of the Derelict like the ARM Sections?  But then HOW are they then Deployed?

BOTH those Issues and the SIZE would not matter in the Case of a Separate Detachable Cargo Hold!

I had used these Images i did before when discussing this..

Here i have drawn a Diagram to show what i mean.

So the Cargo Hold is Separate and Attaches to the Underside of the Derelict... where it can be Released/Detached and Dropped to a Worlds Surface (Maybe it has a Separate Propulsion/Landing System).

Once Deployed Parts of the Cargo Section will OPEN and would leave the Eggs Open (somewhat) and the Blue Myst is Disabled.. (Maybe there is another System that would cause the Eggs to OPEN and Unleash the Face Huggers?).

So Imagine Something like this...

ONCE all the Eggs have been Emptied.... a Beacon could GO OFF and the Doors Shut Back up and then the Derelict can come back and Attach to the EMPTY/SAFE Cargo Hold and then Take it back to WHERE the Eggs are Stored for Re-Filling.

I think this takes CARE of the Size Discrepancy and also is a Pretty Robust way to Deploy the Bio-Weapon and Re-Use the Separate Cargo Compartment, and it also means the Derelict ships can Perform other Tasks than just be Egg Carrying Cargo Ships.

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BigDaveAlien: Covenant ForumALIEN: ALPHA

"The picture of the beach above...Is that Heston's Planet of the Apes? "

Yes it was.. i used to to show that After a Disaster that Wipes out LIFE on Earth, especially if we lost our Ozone/Atmosphere and the Earth became like Mars, then after 10's of Thousands of Years only a Few Larger Monuments would be seen... the Smaller could be Buried under Sand etc.

The Ozymandias fits as this really about how No Matter How Great a Person/Civilization or their Accomplishments are, and what Records/Memories are left of them and Monuments Erected its to show that eventually all these would become LOST or become Ruin....  as NOTHING will LAST Forever..

I think David Re-sites those Words when he remembers back to the Bombardment, because his Coming and Actions are WHAT will spell the END of that Great Engineer Civilization where all that remains would be their Monuments and Buildings but ONCE the Engineers are GONE... then Eventually in TIME these will become Ruin.  It also in Part Applies because this is the Dawn of David's Kingdom on that World... where he would NOW set out to Create his own WORKS.

Back to the Derelict Diagram... and in Context to the OT, well Monster Zero

It was a rough Calculation of HOW BIG the Shot of the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo Hold are in Relation to the Actual Ship Dimensions.... ASSUMING the Bulkhead/Space between the Roof of the Ship and Ceiling of the Pilot Chamber, and the Bulkhead/Space between the Floor of the Pilot Chamber and Ceiling of the Cargo Hold and Finally the Bulkhead/Space between the Floor of the Cargo Hold and Bottom of the Ship are all about 1M in Thickness.  It then ASSUMES the Shot of the Pilot Chamber we only see about 75% of its Height, and the Egg Chamber about 90% of its Height.

If so this would mean that the DERELICT would have to be about 1.75X Taller to Accommodate the Height of the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo Hold.

If these Bulkhead/Spaces between Floors/Bulkhead were 3M and the Pilot Chamber is shown as only 50-60% of its Actual Height, then the DERELICT would have to be at least TWICE as Tall to Accommodate the Height of the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo Hold.

So in Context to Monster Zero... it shows that INDEED the Cargo Hold and Pilot Chamber as far as being ON-TOP of each other would NOT FIT inside the Derelict.

That could mean as far as the OT as in to Re-Explore the Derelict or Re-do the Prequels... that this Inconsistency could be COVERED by having the Cargo Hold as Separate!

But as far as Ridley Scott and the Prequels and even ALIEN then this is just a OVERSIGHT.. and the idea/intentions are the CARGO HOLD is part of the SHIP.

I had mentioned a Few Times Before what i think was the BEST SOLUTION to this Error... one that makes the MOST SENSE to me as FAR as a Ship that is intended to Transport Deadly Bio-Weapon Eggs.

I will explain this again NEXT ;)

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ignorantGuyAlien: Covenant ForumAlien All-stars Challenge

Well this though, but because we talk about WY my team would be:

Alien: Jonnesy as the infiltration specialist and because of Xenomorph immunity.

Aliens: Ferro as a pilot, because usually they are cool and if they raced for Porsche.

Alien cubed: Clemens because he will be reincarnated as Tywin Lannister. Position who cares.

Alien Resurrection: Vriess on the position of bad-ass. How would he be on a WY mission is unimportant as it was bought out by Walmart decades before Resurrection. For some reason he reminds of Tyrion :P

Prometheus: A wise-cracking Engineer in big red suit as the leader. We could call him Engineerpool. The choise here was particularly difficult as on the ship there was a certain security guy who would become the Night King and resurrecting your dudes is tight.

AC: T as the back-up pilot and to think that Ferro is his wife. How would he be sent to intercept the Covenant when he is on it is not important. 

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dkAlien: Covenant ForumAlien All-stars Challenge

Alien- Parker- mechanical/engineering

Aliens- Hicks- security

Alien 3- Bishop

Resurrection- Ripley 8 {she has xeno reflexes, strength, senses etc and is promised she would only be a "consultant" :)}

Prometheus- Dr. Ford- health/medical

Covenant- Walter- science/environmental/hydroponics and fauna expert, navigation direction with MUTHUR link and over all leader.

The team's objective is to find out what happened to the Covenant. There is suspicion of foul play and a general mistrust of WY.

All experts have their own separate teams.

Walter can link Bishop's knowlege and experiences with MUTHUR and himself.

 

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KongzillaAlien: Covenant ForumAlien All-stars Challenge

I Raptus

Wow, Tennessee as a pilot? You really like to take risks!

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Ganimes V.8Alien: Covenant ForumAlien All-stars Challenge

No,my team goes like this:

Xenomorph-Engineer

Xenomorph-Leader

Xenomorph-Scientist

Xenomorph-Security

Deacon-Pilot

Neomorph-Legal

Mission:

Try to make nests in every planet.

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KongzillaAlien: Covenant ForumAlien All-stars Challenge

Team leader - Dillon

Pilot - Janek

Security - Daniels

Science officer - Bishop

Legal - Call

Engineering - Parker

 

The official purpose of the mission - go on Origae-6 and help to Covenant crew.

The hidden purpose of the mission - explore a strange tachyon track, that suddenly appeared near the Origae-6 and clearly has an extraterrestrial origin.

 

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Ganimes V.8Alien: Covenant ForumAlien All-stars Challenge

My team:Parker,Ellen Ripley (Aliens),Dillon,Johner,Elizabeth (Leader),James Franco.

Mission:Survive and exterminate all Xenomorphs (Even though i want the Xenomorphs to be rare Xenomorphs)

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XenotarisAlien: Covenant ForumAlien All-stars Challenge

Yeah I was going to go with a heroic roster but then I was like "Hey lets let the bad guys get what they want, Xenomorphs!"

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dkAlien: Covenant ForumAlien All-stars Challenge

This will take a little time and thought. Is this going to be a stand up fight or just another bug hunt?

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XenotarisAlien: Covenant ForumAlien- The Least important Character: Who Would it be?

Eh Brett since outside of being Big Chap's first victim, he is just a satellite character to Parker

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I.RaptusAlien: Covenant ForumAlien All-stars Challenge

Nice one Xenotaris

I wanted to go an evil roster too, but didnt have the conviction to see it through, so well done sir!

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I.RaptusAlien: Covenant ForumAlien All-stars Challenge

I've gone with the Weyland-Yutani evil ALL-STARs.

Led by Vickers, who is on a revenge mission hell-bent on restoring Peter's legacy and taking down David. After leaping sideways at the last second she survived the rolling Juggernaut and made it back to Earth. With experience on her side she was chosen to lead the Origae-6 mission. Her team's mission is to establish a foothold on the planet and lie in wait to assassinate David, recover the Covenant and secure the Xenomorph specimen.   

Her team packs muscle, brains and tenacity - Problem-solvers that aren't afraid to bend the rules, or look the other way to get the job done, even if it might be a tad...evil.

Although an interesting clash of personalities that would probably fall apart before they even left the dropship, if they managed to pull their sh#t together they could be a serious badass team!  

 

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XenotarisAlien: Covenant ForumAlien All-stars Challenge

All-Star- Evil Roster: Ash, Burke, Bishop II, that creepy scientist dude, Peter Weyland (Expedition Leader), and David.

Mission: Capture, Evolve, and Control the Xenomorphs

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IngenieroAlien: Covenant ForumALIEN: ALPHA

The picture of the beach above...Is that Heston's Planet of the Apes?  

Home run.  It is a perfect example of the Ozymandias concept with Earth's magnificent city of New York turns into driftwood buried by sand.  

As far as the topic in regards to changes made to the prequel layout, delivery....I tried to bring in the concept in early in the Alien: Genesis (Prometheus title replaced) to be reinforced later in Alien: Covenant.  

There are certainly better parts of Frankenstein to use in the narration.  I also thought it might be a better way to introduce Ozymandias' meaning to a larger audience opposed to David and Walter muttering the poem to each other in the dark and many asking "Who's Byron?...must be talking about Mary Shelley."

In the novel, David's madness is more clear.  If the audience was more familiar with Percy Bysshe Shelley's Ozymandias then the point that David got this wrong would me made with more clarity.  David barked out "Byron" when questioned by Walter on who wrote Ozymandias and this scene might have been better with the changes to the prequel opening.

The David Planet 4 images in the opening were not only put there, of course, to tie into the Ozymandias concept (of great, then not) but also to add a little mystery of seeing this early and not knowing the context until the next film.

Yes, I just like to write Ozymandias over and over.  

Ozymandias.  

 

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IngenieroAlien: Covenant ForumAlien- The Least important Character: Who Would it be?

That is very reasonable BigDave...it's a hard choice because each character fit the role.

Right on hox.  I really didn't think anyone had the guts to cut the cat.  I didn't.

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hoxAlien: Covenant ForumAlien- The Least important Character: Who Would it be?

Jones. He really didn't do that much acting. Still, a tough call. I'm glad the furry fella made the big time.

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I.RaptusAlien: Covenant ForumAlien- The Least important Character: Who Would it be?

THis is tricky, as BigDave said above the cast and number were spot on, they all do contribute something.....unlike say the Alien Covenant cast....

As irritating and hopeless as Lambert was, her actions her were the manifestation of terror. Lets face it, what they faced and experienced was so ALIEN most folk would fall apart like she did. Trapped in a ship, in the middle of uninhabited space with a creature that was totally unpredictable and violent. 

Id have to say Brett could have been UTILIZED more in the plot, that's about it though. But in saying that Harry Dean Stanton was so perfectly cast

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BigDaveAlien: Covenant ForumALIEN: ALPHA

Regarding the Derelict/Cargo i made this rough to Scale of the Pilot Chamber, Cargo Hold in Relation to Crew Height.

This is to SHOW the Minimum Size Required... i actually think the Derelict would need to STILL be a Little Larger, to the TUNE of Double the Height and Diameter and maybe Two-Three Times Width to accommodate the Cargo Hold and Full Pilot Chamber

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BigDaveAlien: Covenant ForumAlien: Prototype

I will have to give it a TRY!

I should Start to Read more to HELP me sleep, as my Brain does-not switch off at Night lol

I am open to Reading Novels that expand but dont contradict the Movies and Prequels.. sadly quite a Number of them do this....

But i guess its always best to take them as a Alternative Universe, like how the Dark Knight Batman Series and the 90's Movie Series are....  about Batman but set in different Universes.

I DO have a FEAR that with Disney the ALIEN Franchise would be seeing Similar.... be it Movies and TV Series and so that could even mean a Alternative Universe version of Ellen Ripley thats played by someone else.

Or a Blomkamps like Alien 5... reboot of Alien 3

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BigDaveAlien: Covenant ForumALIEN: ALPHA

If  i could EXPAND on my Last Topic....

Going back 10+ Years ago then having a Announcement of a ALIEN Movie that was indicated and expected to provide some Answers to the Mystery in ALIEN... of which the Main Questions were

*WHAT was that Ship doing with those EGGS?

*WHERE did those EGGS come from?

*WHERE was the Derelict going and WHERE did it come from?

We can expand on that by exploring the Xenomorph Egg Origins..

The Secondary Mystery would be WHO is the Space Jockey, his Species, their Agenda/Purpose and WHY would they be carrying such a Horrific Organism.

By the Time we got to Prometheus, it NEVER gave any Clear Answers to all of those, Certainly not to the Level of Detail Expected...  

Fans also had become Disappointed in the Revelation that the Space Jockey was indicated as a 8ft Race of Bald Humans who had been our Creators/Gods.....   Many Expected some kind of more Alien/Lovecraft Plot and Aesthetic that close matched the Scene from ALIEN.

Some may have expected Xenomorph's but i dont think this was 100% a Problem it was more so they was NEVER replaced by anything similar....  Zombie Fifield, Face Rape Space Cobra certainly is not as Adequate as something that had more Connection to the Xenomorph, main Problem being the Engineer and Fifield completed most of the Kill Count... if this was Split between having some Neomorph like Organism then that would have been better.

The MONEY-SHOT being Dr Shaws Fetus Face Hugger (Trilobite) and its Infecting the Engineer that leads to the Chest Buster (Deacon) but not seeing it do anything... if we had a similar Organism earlier on Kill 2-3 people i think that would have Pleased Fans

So i think those things had NOT been as ALIEN as Fans Expected... but FOX felt all Fans wanted/needed was to get the Xenomorph Origins and see them back and similar... and Hence Alien Covenant but the Plot really just made the Xenomorph something FAR less ALIEN now.

And downgraded the Space Jockey (Engineers) as being insignificant and well more Weaker/Human.

I think the Problem was not really Prometheus but the Sequel.... a Different Sequel could have indicated something more ALIEN as far as the Hierarchy and Agenda above the Engineers.

But in Context to the OT....

If we was to Re-do a Prequel... i think some of Prometheus could still FIT-WELL but we need to tease and then explore in a Further Sequel something MORE ALIEN.

By that even if they RE-MADE the Prequels... i would have the Space Jockey as some Space Suit with a somewhat Human Bald Occupants and make them 10ft Tall.

But then you have something that is Above Them... something more ALIEN...

For Many Years... and i mean even WAY before the Prequels the IDEA was that the EGGS are a Bio-Weapon Created (or obtained) by the Space Jockey Race... for some Unknown Reason/Conflict.

Gigers Mural and Concepts seem to Draw me to another Conclusion....  this may appear to be say 30% we are looking at the Space Jockey Created a Ship that Produces a Bio-Weapon (Eggs) that they Self Sacrifice themselves to Procreate.... but then 70% of me is Drawn to the Same but that the Space Jockey Race are NOT the Creator of any of this, but are just some Race who are USED for this Purpose..

What do they Gain from this? and WHO is at the Top of the Chain....   THIS is where we should have gone and it could have been VERY ALIEN and Lovecraftian!

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BigDaveAlien: Covenant ForumAlien- The Least important Character: Who Would it be?

Dont get me wrong i liked Parker as a Character, but the OT was to choose the Least Important, i just felt that IF they had decided to CUT his Character and hand some of his Lines over to say Bret (Moan about Pay, and about suggesting they Freeze Kane) and then have someone else whack Ash's Head off.

Then his Character as not so Pivotal to the Plot.

We could have replaced Bret with Parker and have Parker be the First Victim of the Xenomorph then Bret would become the Spare Part of sorts...

I actually think the CAST and Number was SPOT-ON there is NO Real Stand out Weak Character.... you would be left with making a Choice from Parker, Bret and Lambert but their Roles did add to the Plot and so a removal of ONE would require another of the remaining Characters to Perform some of the Removed Characters Lines and Scenes.

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IngenieroAlien: Covenant ForumAlien- The Least important Character: Who Would it be?

This is tough.

Parker's engineering ability fit the industrial setting with Brett as his tech...I believe vital to a Nostromo-like-ship look.  Brett's character wasn't central to the plot but Harry Dean Stanton was cast too well to cut.  He looked like he walked right out of a truck stop.

Parker pressing Dallas for pay was pretty good and so was Ash and Dallas' response. Parker telling Lambert to get out of the room when staring at the beast in the face was pretty good too.  Dallas fit well.  Kane was central.  And yes, we can't cut Ripley because she was the survivor and no one would cut Jonesy.  

Lambert was crying and freezing up but she may be the closest example of how I might behave with that demon close by but she would be the one to cut.

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dkAlien: Covenant ForumAlien- The Least important Character: Who Would it be?

Lambert was the emotional proxy, but the crying and freezing (when flight/fight should have kicked in) seemed weaker compared to Parker's practical actions. He whined and complained like a regular person but took action when Ash went nuts while Lambert stood around and basically screamed.

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BigDaveAlien: Covenant ForumALIEN: ALPHA

But to be FAIR...

Prometheus for me was FINE... needed some Changes and i did work on a Re-Edit (which i lost) the Engineers Scale was OFF...  they was intended to be 15ft then 10ft but oh well....

There are some Aesthetic Differences too... Ship/Pilot.

What i got from Prometheus was the TALE of Creation, Sub-Creation, then HOW-MUCH knowledge and Free-Will you give your Creation, that causes them to REBEL.... and also allowing your Creations to Create/Pro-Create would be a HUBRIS.

So when talking before Alien Covenant... things were a Mystery and could have been Explored Different.

David was Created by Weyland to Serve Mankind, to replace us for a number of Tasks/Chores.... we could have the Revelation that Mankind was created for a Similar Reason by the Engineers.

We could then have it the Engineers were created by their Creators for a similar Reason too...

So we have a Similar Path repeated over and over..

Then we could go back FURTHER... to the Higher Layer of that Cake.... before the Engineers, maybe they are like Engineers.. Taller.. and then we could Explore above these Taller Beings and THIS is when things get ANCIENT like Really Ancient and TOTALLY ALIEN...

Thats HOW i was looking to explore it with my Prometheus sequel/prequel ideas...

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BigDaveAlien: Covenant ForumALIEN: ALPHA

Some Interesting Ideas and Changes there Ingeniero

The Ozymandias from Alien Covenant i interpret in relation to the Prologue, where Weyland has amassed all these Arts and Creations (inc the Piano) with the Principle being that all these MATTER NOT for when the Time of Death comes... you cant take them with you and if there is NOTHING then they can NO longer be Remembered or Appreciated by their Dead Owner.

Its about Immortality in that there are many ways you can be Immortalized,  that is in the Memory of your Generations/Off-Spring, by the Deeds or Creations you have done which inc Art/Music, by what Famous Deeds you have done... and by having Monuments and Statues Erected in your Memory.

And so in Context the Ozymandias is to indicate that even such Monuments will in TIME Fade Away and be Lost in the Sands... and so its to show that EVERY Civilization will come to a END and eventually NOTHING remains.

For Example... this could be all that Remains of New York (well similar or even LESS) in say 25'000-40'000 Years Time especially of the Earth Dies... loses its Atmosphere and becomes a Mars!

So thats kind of what i Interpret the Ozymandias quote in relation to Alien Covenant.... with the Flash Back its like David referencing that after his Actions... that all that Remains of the Engineers is their City and Monuments but that Eventually they will Disappear!

I would say that in Millions of Years Time the Earth could look more like MARS with some Remains of our Civilization....  But more so say if we was to go back say 2000-3000 years ago and the Earth suffered a Disaster that RID the Atmosphere and then those Civilizations would be LOST and only Great Monuments would remain like say the Giza Pyramids... the rest Burred by Sands!

So to PUT that in Context with the OT...  then maybe it was best to Explore the Space Jockey Race as just that.... a LONG LONG GONE.. Civilization

With only some Remains of Ancient Structures that are LONG abandoned... NO Living Space Jockey, but we get some Murals and maybe Activate a Record System (like in Prometheus) that can give some Clues and Indications of their Society but maybe keep it relevant to the Eggs.

That way as i said in another reply, you would NOT have to be Bogged Down with Details about Gods and Stuff or to Explore and show any Living Space Jockey and WHAT they was all about...

Maybe you could uncover 1-2 Alive ones in some kind of Cryo-sleep. But they Ultimately will be KILLED and that would be the END of them...... well as far as LOCALLY in the Galaxy (within say 10'000+ LY)

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BigDaveAlien: Covenant ForumALIEN: ALPHA

Certainly DK

This could be considered as merely a OVERSIGHT...

Indeed the PLOT (Alien) came about from Starbeast where we had a Separate Temple/Pyramid with the Eggs and when HR Giger came aboard and the Draft Changed, it was still Planned to have a Separate Egg Chamber, in which HR Giger even did some Concept for the Separate Egg Silo.

The SETS where Built.. and so they would RE-USE the Same Set but make Few Changes for the Pilot Chamber and Egg Storage Chamber.  The idea would have been to have a External Shot of a Separate Silo/Mound and where the Human Crew would be seen walking to this and Scaling it..  But Time Restraints and Budget Restrictions meant that had to be CANED and so before Shooting the Plot got Changed a little to incorporate the Cargo Hold as UNDER the Pilot Room.

And so the Status Quo then was the Egg Chamber was Part of the Derelict.

HOWEVER... anyone who sees the Movie Alone, would maybe not always 100% Conclude the Chamber was inside the Ship for a Number of Reasons.  And SCALE is one such Reason.

And so in Context to the OT.... as in if we could Re-do the Prequel Prometheus or Replace it.....

Then INDEED you could explore that the Ship is sitting ON-TOP of a Underground Egg Chamber.

The only Problem with doing this would be that any kind of Prequel that would give Answers, or a Movie set AFTER say Alien or Aliens that would go back and give Answers....  would be a Movie that would Kind-of just be doing the same as what happened in ALIEN.

Unless the Human Crew in said Movie would Discover another ENTRANCE to the Egg Chamber and maybe a Underground System... with Answers...

But this as well as having LV-426 have Multiple such Underground System of Tunnels and Chambers, would get us to WONDER... as to WHY the Company Pursue the Xenomorph via Ripley from Alien 3 on-wards.

Having their be just ONE such Cargo Compartment that is Located on the Derelict which is Destroyed after Hadleys Hope's Destruction would take care of such a Plot Hole/Conflict.

I agree with RS (back prior to 2014) in that the Derelict had left from some place else and ENDED UP on LV-426 via a Crash Landing as a Good Explanation.  Then you could explore from WHERE the Derelict had left for a Prequel... which is what Prometheus had loosely indicated.

The Discrepancy of the Size of the Cargo Hold, could just be accepted as a Oversight... but as i said with the OT as far as its Purpose.... then to go back and RE-DO a Prequel then YEAH you could indicate the Cargo Hold is Separate to the Ship... surely.

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IngenieroAlien: Covenant ForumALIEN: ALPHA

1) What Time-Line do you set the Movie in, also include any Flash Back Scene Time-Lines?

 

Early 1800s and Engineer historical timeline based on the timeline in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.

 

2) What Location do you set the Movie on/in, back to LV-426, a near by Moon/Planet (like was done with LV-223) or another Place in the Galaxy? maybe also HOW FAR away does this take Place?

 

LV-223, Earth, Planet 4, a juggernaut on the botton of the Pacific Ocean sounds really cool (it does sound like a Cameron movie).

 

3) Do you go for a Direct Prequel where you explain what happened to the Derelict, and then do you DO-SO in a Chronological Route, or Provide Solid Clues/Flash Backs? OR do you infer Clues that would drawn Fans to WHAT likely happened without having to Visit or Show the Derelict?

 

3 Prequel route with changes to what is seen in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant with the remaining prequel being the Alien: Covenant Origins novel made into film including the decades before the novel took place on Earth.

 

“Bodies were ripped apart, exploded, sundered, until dismembered skeletons began to pile up against the sides of buildings like white foam from a wave. A tsunami of blood ran down first one street, then another.”

 

Alien: Covenant Origins Prologue

 

The above description in the novel is somewhat similar to what MonsterZero describes above with the xenomorph infestation on a planet.  The book doesn’t specifically say “xenomorph” here but the end product (blood tsunami) sounds the same.

 

4) Do you explore the Space Jockey, and to what Extent and Detail, do you see any ALIVE Space Jockey's? How Deep do you explore their Agenda and History or Set up this for a Sequel?  

 

The Space Jockey is still left a mystery in the prequel films in order to remain that way in Alien.

 

Do you have them Communicate with Each Other and Provide Sub Titles?  Do they/can they Communicate with Humans and HOW? N/A

 

5) Do you offer a Direct Answer to WHERE/HOW those Eggs had Originated from?  And what the Connection the Space Jockey has with them?

 

MonsterZero’s idea of scraping eggs off the sides of juggernauts tends to reconcile with the Giger art where the eggs are generates in a wall…I love that idea as well as the Engineer transportation hub. 

The Space Jockey is still a preferred mystery but to see something hard to understand such as Space Jockey tech or Engineers attacked in some way like described above would be preferable. 

 

6) Do you introduce the Xenomorph, or do you introduce something a bit Different?

 

I’m going to agree with Leto on the need for more Neomorph time.

 

7) How do you introduce Human Characters because they surely would be NEEDED, and so its HOW do any Humans END-UP at a Location that would then allow us to Answer some of those Questions left from ALIEN?

 

Alien: Genesis

Mary Godwin, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Lord Byron and his personal physician, John William Polidori were trapped inside a villa due to weather. They spent their time crafting scary stories to tell one another in the Summer of 1816 and from these stories came Frankenstein and The Vampyre

The opening scene in the villa could be Mary Godwin (later Shelley) delivering Frankenstein to Percy, Lord Byron, and John with images of the Engineers flashing during her telling of the modern Prometheus tale. Percy Bysshe Shelley wrote Ozymandias in anticipation of the arrival of the Rameses II statue once the British Museum announced the acquisition and schedule for delivery in 1818.  

The opening of the prequel (Alien: Genesis) would close with visuals consisting of moving the statue from Egypt all the way to placing it at the British Museum and the unveiling to the public while hearing Ozymandias with a flashback to when the statue was new, magnificent…then fade to the relic in the museum the statue had become. 

This approach would bring in the references/concepts from literature early, later to be reinforced that were somewhat lost in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.  

 

 

Scenes Cut, Scenes Restored, Changes

 

Prometheus

The changes to the Prometheus content would be:

a)the Fifield and Milburn scenes alone in the pyramid and the Deacon born would be cut for time and reduced to short COMNET feeds uploaded from the helmets and the Lifeboat,

b) the ending from Prometheus would be the same ending except for a corporate rep shown reviewing the CLASSIFIED COMNET feeds from the Prometheus Mission and seeing what happened to Fiflield and Milburn.  

 

This approach would reconcile with how the company compartmentalized information seen in the novels and other films.  The Synthetic White Noise described in the novels fits well with what is seen in Prometheus, Alien, Aliens in regards to communication issues.

 

“Andrea Rollins didn’t care in the least about white noise or interference. She did, however, pay a great deal of attention to the signal embedded inside of that synthetic static.

 

Weyland-Yutani owned the patents on the devices that created that artificial signal, and on the hardware and software that could break it down into its component parts. It wasn’t a technology currently available on the market. Hers was the only computer on the ship capable of breaking down the coded information.

 

March 2497, Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 160-161.

 

Anything out of the ordinary  on LV-223, LV-426, Planet 4, and the security cameras on Fury 161 would certainly be tagged and scrambled only for Weyland-Yutani select computers to decode such as seen with Andrea Rollins.  She ran a goon-squad on LV-178 and provided great healthcare to them if they came back up to the ship wearing a facehugger. 

Showing this form of encryption, management with COMNET is a way to showcase Weyland-Yutani Corporation and it’s competitors' technology as well.

 

 

Alien: Covenant

The following changes would be made to Alien: Covenant:

a) The Crossing would be edited and inserted as flash backs where David and Walter speak outside looking over the Planet 4 city complete with the attack shown while David is quoting Ozymandias,

b) Walter would be notified of the destructive event while in the garden and not the colonists chamber,

c) the Synthetic/Construct kiss would be cut,

d) the juggernauts scene cut from Alien: Covenant where Sergeant Lope shoots a flair below would be restored, and

e) the Neomorph would kill Hallett and not a throat explosion.  No one bends down to huff extrasolar spores, insulting.

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BigDaveAlien: Covenant ForumRidley Scott's Raised By Wolves Moves to HBO

"Hah! I suppose you are right. It just feels like we have been down this road before"

I think maybe kind of, its HARD to come up with anything thats never been done before in Sci-Fi

I assume the MAIN Focus is the TALE of Knowledge and Influences that has.  By that the WORLD has a Wide Variety of Politics, Religion, Empathy Levels or Lack of...  and so the Influences that a Human is surrounded by and Experiences and Knowledge gained can SHAPE the Character of a Person.

Mankind is Driven by many things include Pride, Desire, Ambition, Greed among others... some Traits are Good and some are Not so Good.    People are Shaped by their Environment and by that if we took Adolf Hitler and he was brought up  in a Different Country, Different Era and by Different Parents and Education etc..... then its LIKELY he would NOT have been the same Wicked Person!

So lets look at Humanity and the Earth and Imagine what it could be like in say 100 Years, we could be on a Dying Planet we could still be Causing Harm to the Earth, and Each Other....  And those who Dont... well the World could already be in a BAD SHAPE and there is LITTLE that can be Changed.

If you was a GOD who Created all this (Earth, and its Inhabitants) and you looked at the Earth and Humanity say 1000, 2000 Years ago... then Compare it to TODAY you would be SHOCKED at the Damage/Harm that Mankind has Done!

So just as with the Covenant Mission (they wanted a FRESH Start to escape the Rotting Paradise of Earth) If you wanted to SAVE Mankind and START Again and NOT to repeat the Errors of our Ways...

Then you would want to go FIND a Earth-like Virgin Planet to Populate, and to Populate this with INNOCENT Children would be ideal as they would have NO such Influences and on a Virgin World they can be SHAPED to be a BETTER Humanity....

Having Robots to take care and Raise such Children who (Robots) would not be effected by our Emotional Desires and Ambitions that can have Negative/Selfish Implications would be more IDEAL.

And so i think THIS is what the Main Objective of the Androids and this Virgin World is, so they can Re-Populate Humanity and Raise them without Certain Vices/Bad Influences.

Then a Incoming Human ship that has Various Different Personalities and Religions etc, would ARRIVE and the Interaction of these with the Colony of Children the Androids are Tasked with Raising, could POSE a Problem to the Androids Mission.

What we have really is like a Adam and Eve (Children) and the Other Incoming Humans would be like Satan in the Garden and the Persuading of the Eating of the Forbidden Fruit!

God in reaction to this had to make some Tough Choices...

I am sure those TWO Androids may have to make some too...

I suspect we will see Inner Conflict for those Children as in Discovering what other Humans are like and what Drives them, and some of this could be Appealing to them, some could be Disturbing to some. 

But then some could be Disturbed with seeing those Androids (or ONE) resort to Butchering the other Humans and how would they react to knowing a Creation of Mankind has just been trying to Topple/Kill others of their Kind?

While some of those Children could maybe see the Care that the Androids had placed into them, and see the Potential Bad in the Influence/Corruption and Conflict the Arrival of these other Humans could have on their PARADISE.

Thats my Speculative Interpretation... it would be Interesting to see HOW close or HOW wide off the Mark i am.

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