Comments (Page 198)

@ali81

Indeed the Prequels went through various stages of Evolution before we got to Shooting of Prometheus.

The Initial Intention was some kind of Prequel that appeared to be a Direct Prequel, but there was Flaws, the Time-Line was wrong but this was down to Spaights not being Familiar with WHEN the Movie ALIEN was set, as it had NO Time-Line, its only from ALIENS that we can get a 2122 Time-Line due to the Acknowledgement that Ripley was Floating in Space for 57 years.

I am not sure that Idea would have led to Sequels that would lead to ALIEN, it seems that it Indicated the Ending of the Movie well the Crashing of the Juggernaught would be what led to the Derelict, but that a Sequel would STEER AWAY from ALIEN.

If we had Alien Engineers as a Direct Prequel to Alien, even if the Time-Line was FIXED to be say 2072-2092, there would have been Conflicts with the Franchise, the Wreckage of the Magellan, the Life-Boat, Pyramids and the Signal that came from the Pyramids and NOT the Derelict.

So it needed some Tidy up, and so thats when Lindeloff came in, only the ALIEN elements and clues to the Derelict where TONED DOWN maybe too much.  None the less the indication was to give some Clues to a Connection but to also keep it Ambiguous to keep some Mystery thus leaving the Derelict as a ANCIENT MYSTERY.

Prometheus became a Stand Alone as in its Events would NOT directly tie into ALIEN as far as the Derelict.   It was left open ended so that if there was NO Sequel it would not cause any real Conflict, but it was set up to Warrant a Sequel that would have STEERED AWAY from ALIEN.

Fox took On-board complaints about Prometheus and they assumed the Biggest Problem was Fans wanted to see Xenomorphs and have a Sequel that would Directly lead to ALIEN and the Derelict.... and thus ALIEN COVENANT was born....

Which i felt was a Unnecessary way forwards.

@BigDave

"I don't want to meet God in the first movie."

This assumes you wish to meet God in the second movie.

Given he offers this thought during the Waterfall Incident it becomes important to establish a narrative possibility from the ritual on display.

The transmission of God, of God entering the world is through sacrifice.  

When Elizabeth considers the fresco's the reproduction mechanism she discovers is through hosting.

When Charlie considers the mural the transmission mechanism of the Deacon's characteristic is through sacrifice.

Like Frankenstein it denies the onlooker sexual reproduction.

We arrive at the end of the movie with a question about sexual knowledge and reproduction and we are sat there with a barren woman who has given birth to a chaotic accident and an android incapable of reproduction.

When we arrive wherever we arrive we need to learn why there is a denial of sexual reproduction in what we know so far. Haven't our makers figured out sexual reproduction unless that is to look at it the wrong way round.

So the Engineers may not be conceived through the mechanism of a loving relationship but rather like Frankensteins Monster and David out of creative knowledge. They are created out of a void whereas mankind is created out of chaos (to paraphrase and borrow from Mary Shelley).

So an extension of the film can deal with.

1) Are the creatures of the Moon Promethean.

2) If they are they were destroyed (which ever way self or third party.)

3) Why did they leave and wish to sub create what was wrong in Paradise? 

4) Who made them and what is their relationship with their creators. 

If we get those answers its extremely likely mankind is a footnote in this movement and the result of error in the plan and thats when we start to look at Elizabeth who is displaying a good deal of Miltonic Adam and Frankenstein's Monster and has had an annunciation of sorts and is now looking a lot like Pandora.

So with all that heavyweight theology weighing down the two characters how can you avoid sitting around for two hundred pages or 2 hours and not just rocking up and talking the meaning of life. There has to be a point to their journey which they are not aware of.

Probably if you take the view that creative knowledge is destructive (which it has been) and sexual knowledge is denied (which appears to be) then you can put Elizabeth through the ringer show her her personal Paradise but also her more general hell and see how she makes out with the robot that made her pregnant who she chooses to Fix with a typical female viewpoint "I can make him the man I want him to be", you know the redemption chick.Oh no not more hubris !

Except David was also created for all the wrong reasons and as others have worked out Weyland's understanding of Prometheus is a little flawed. So maybe David and Elizabeth don't fall in love they fall out of love with all around them.       

' the android did it.'

??

More like: Weyland did it...Humanity did it.

If not for Peter Weyland, David would be a assembly robot on Mars building spaceships or rovers.

David the caretaker opened the box...Woke the devil...planted the seed.

David(humanity) is Prometheus. 

we have to look at the comments made by RS in the lead up to the production and making of the film and the basis of the problems, at least for me, become very apparent.

initially RS STATED he was making a full alien prequel movie that was intended to be the first in a hopeful trilogy. even if he was not going to continue with later films for say, the film bombed, he at least had the intent of leaving the door wide open for someone else at a later date to continue on. as the pre-production of the film progressed he realised there was a more important question (at least to him) that had not been asked in any of the other alien movies. thusly, who was the pilot of the derelict and what was the connection to the xeno/eggs? he then STATES he is making a stand alone movie with the intent of a trilogy that would eventually tie into the original. unfortunately for him, so many people cant look past his original statement in that this is meant to directly tie into alien from the offset. the man himself has stated he has doubts on a god creating all things but never claims one doesn't exist. so hes looking into a possibility as to the creation of ourselves. remember, god 'apparently' created man in his image so that ties into why the engineers look so much like us. its only our evolution on a different planet that separates us. its safe to assume that these creators would be vastly more evolved than ourselves in terms of thinking and tech to even consider they could create us unnaturally.

RS makes an astonishingly good jump off point in Prometheus but it has divided so many due to some bad casting and a film that needed another 30 mins at least of screen time which would have greatly helped in character building and holes to be filled. remember alien takes over 45 mins to even get to the good stuff and is still regarded a masterpiece which shows people will accept a slow pace to begin with if done for the right reasons and in the right way. something Prometheus sorely lacks. the point of Prometheus is not in any way to give answers. its the origin of the question. I hate how people shit on it due only to the argument 'not enough aliens' or 'it raised more questions than gave answers'. listen to what RS said. its a stand alone movie with the hopes of a trilogy to tie into alien at the end. the first movie isn't supposed to grant answers, that's the job of the sequels. for the not enough aliens problem, we get a giant facehugger, a deacon and an alien humanoid whose whole history would have scientists drooling at the mouth. the greatest discovery in the history of mankind. what else do u want? is the film itself flawed? yes. but imo that's nothing to do with the film itself and more choices in casting and the film not being long enough. the biggest casting problem for me was Theron. wasted wasted wasted wasted. she should have been Shaw or Daniels. I have no issues at all with the plot of the film and love how after watching it I had so many different ideas and thoughts on where they could go. were the engineers split into factions due to civil unrest/war? did they serve a higher power? did they discover the original xeno/deacon and experiment? WHAT WAS THE WHOLE STORY REGARDING THE DERELICT?

unfortunately for me, they made Alien Covenant.....

F**K all those questions. the android did it.

well F**K YOU very much for trashing it all. I for one will never have a third viewing of AC and I curse them for it. I was looking forward to that movie sooooo much more than iv ever wanted to see a movie. even the trailers were awesome but the film was garbage and now I don't even care if they ever make a sequel. for me the franchise ends at Prometheus

Regarding the Prometheus Link...

This is something that could play in a number of ways, certainly as it did with Frankenstein.  Its a Question of HOW really Literal are we talking?

It seems the NAME had came a while after the Majority of the Plot was in Place, so maybe it may-not bare too much of a Connection.

The Broad Strokes i guess should be to Consider that Prometheus was a kind of God, who had played a Role in the Creation of Mankind, and the Teaching of Knowledge to Mankind..... Until he had Given/Taught Mankind something the other Gods had NOT wanted us to Have/Know.....

And for this he was Punished...

In  the Mythos then indeed we have the Pandora and her Box as our Punishment for the whole Transgression against the Gods.... but its HOW Literal we look at this (Pandora).

So there is a lot of AMBIGUITY to how these could connect.... when they call the Engineers Prometheus, then do we have to LOOK at it as they Created us, by Order or Acknowledgement of their Hierarchy.

Then its a case of their Visitations or Further Genetic Enhancements to Mankind, are these something the Hierarchy had Permitted... or ONLY to a certain Degree.

Had their been some Tampering with us Genetically, or/and Certain Knowledge that was Taught that those who DID this to us, had done so AGAINST the other Would Be Gods wishes?

I think when Ridley Scott also alludes to Paradise Lost, i do often see Parallels between Lucifer and Prometheus.  So i always felt even if Loosely how these Connect would be Interesting, especially going forwards with any Sequel.

When looking at Prometheus and the Mythos i have always seen a Familiarity between these.

Thanks Michelle

Indeed its a shame that Prometheus has got some Flak from Fans, its certainly a Movie that the More you see it and overlook its Flaws, then you get to realize the Scope, the Thought Provoking Elements to the Movie.

Theatrically its a Movie that not many would Understand after First Viewing, there are Ambiguous Elements, but there is a lot of Clarity that some dont get.... Visually its a Wonder, its a Mystery Adventure more than any kind of Horror or Action that maybe some would have thought it would be about..... i feel a lot of Fans Expected it to be Very much a ALIEN Movie and so they tried HARD to see how it fits with ALIEN, and while there are Clues, it remained too Ambiguous in some Areas..

But having some things that are NOT Spoon Fed, does mean you can Speculate, you can Wonder, and it also means that any Sequels have the Option to Change things, were as if we had a SPOON FED Movie then a Continuation you have so Many things that would be Set in Stone that too Continue your kind of stuck on Rails rather than being Free.

Parts of the Commentary and Furious Gods, give us a Insight into what some of those who Worked on the Project intended or view the Movie to mean....

I think i was HARSH on Lindeloff, i think the way he just does not Elaborate on things, is to allow the Fans to Speculate a little...

I think Regardless of how we look at it there are some Basics at Play that i think should have been Pretty Clear to Viewers....

This is that without the Engineers Interaction with Mankind from not only the Sacrifice/Seeding, then WE would not be here, and also NOT have achieved what we had and maybe would still NOW be working with Stone Tools and Painting with Hands in a Cave.....

So Prometheus gave us that First Piece of Technology (Fire) as Weyland said in the TED TALK.... Prometheus as in those Engineers....

I would have missed this if a spammer didn't bump it. Nice pics. I never noticed before!

Fun to draw parallels . . . :)

The Classic Greek myth about Prometheus permeates the movie which also alludes to “the Modern Prometheus” (Frankenstein).

The themes of “creation” and "death" are essential in both of them. In the Prometheus myth, Pandora is created out of clay. She is the first mortal woman, that is doomed to die.

Both Mr Weyland and Victor Frankenstein are obsessed with conquering death (Frankenstein because of the tragic death of his mother).

Shaw is equally eager to find the answers behind life and death (because of her parents). Like Pandora, she is mortal - and too curious . . .

David is also a curious boy, "a very strange, enchanted boy", who notes that "the gods" (the Engineers) are "mortal after all" . . .

cool pics

@BigDave

On the question of how much Prometheus the myth would be reflected in the subsequent movie. 

First of all it is a very layered tradition with many elements to it. The precise role of Prometheus his brother and Pandora shifts and changes over many centuries.

The way I extrapolated it going forward was based on three themes :-

1) Prometheus had stolen technology.

2) Zeus punished Prometheus in two ways.

a) The Liver extraction endless punishment.

b) Pandora as a bride of Prometheus Brother is provided with the Urn (which is full of ills) and they have a child Pyrrha who after the flood with her husband must repopulate earth. 

3) In one legend once the Urn is almost empty at the bottom is hope.

All of those elements are echoed through the Engineers their annihilation, Weyland the aspirational brother of the Engineers, the opening of the Cylinder and the woes it brings and whether children are born of Elizabeth to repopulate. Elizabeth has to decide whether those children represent hope. 

Outside of the pure Promethean myth is if an unauthorised biological and artificial construct turn up at the source of an Intelligent Creation, which by definition has gone wrong, what might they possibly contribute. Then of course you move to the Judo Christian riffing or my vision how the religions of the world echo a distant truth as we are not quite the full ticket.  

I do not think you ever want to read an "old book" and rewrite it slavishly but recognise the movements and thoughts that have gone into them and see whether that gives your story for David and Elizabeth a sense of authority.

That is why the movie is taken seriously because it is rooted in traditions. 

However what a story really needs is vigour and that must be self starting with its own unique energy.    

@BigDave

Thank you for your clarification. You obviously know me well enough to know I am not attention seeking and looking to pick an argument. I simply want to cut through this notion that is rife on the internet that Prometheus does not communicate. It is a curious thing that some find it vague and in coherent and yet it ends up the subject of doctorate thesis and theologians work and that is because, as you know, it works thematically and symbolically. It is obvious to me everyone on the ship with the exception of the grunts (Janek, Chance and Ravel) are deeply flawed and that is entirely right for a group of human beings who sign up for a mission without knowing what it is or do so searching hubristically for our makers. That Milburn a promiscuous homosexual flirts with the hammerpede and has oral sex seems entirely logical. That Fifield is a loud mouth pot smoker who runs at the first time of trouble and ends up being a fearless super human quasi morph is another interesting take but try to explain that to people who are not paying attention.

Equally in terms of the Prometheus narrative it is interesting that the perfect creation starts making mistakes, makes dangerous judgements and gets his head ripped off.

Communing with strangers on the internet is for mankind a relatively new way of exchanging. It shows how difficult and overwhelming it can be when you are talking to thousands of people at once and its very chaotic trying to cut through to the truth. I have absolutely no problem with people taking a different view to me but so much of what is said is ill informed, indeed incorrect and says more about peoples prejudices.

On Instagram the other day someone said how come The James Bond DB5 is in NO Time To Die. It was blown up in the last movie. I reminded them it was blown up in Skyfall and rebuilt by Q in Spectre and the two protagonists left at the end of the film in it. Response "I am entitled to my opinion."     

Certainly we have Dr Shaw and Holloways curiosity that leads them to Propose their Findings which Weyland then decided to Fund the Expedition....  Once they explore that Complex they In Effect Re-Open Pandora's Box ;)

The only HOPE she could be looking for, would be that there had to be someone IN CHARGE behind all of this, Creation and Attempt to Destroy us.

She could be HOPEFUL that they Changed their Mind some 2000 years ago, maybe she would be asking HOW-COME they never came back to Finish the Job?

So what i am saying is she maybe has HOPE that those above the Engineers or in Charge do-not or No-Longer have such Destructive Intentions for us...

It would have been Interesting to see her come Face to Face with such Beings through her Curiosity and Demands for Answers.... but ALAS we was Robed of that ;)

I do like so many of the Themes and Potential it had... i will have to Listen to the Full Commentary again as far as any Indications more on Motive about LV-223 and how the Prometheus Mythos could FIT... i am not sure it covers such though... i will have to Re-Watch it all again.

I think i can remember that Lindeloff just gave another Simple Because they Could Answer again...  "why was we created... because they could, why did they want to Destroy us, because they could/got bored"  Thats not a Direct Quote, thats just kinda what i Interpreted he was getting at...

As in (and i will have watch it again as been Years) they Created us for something to do, a Experiment, they got a bit Bored and wondered what Else they could Create, and they created some Horrid Stuff and decided lets use this on our Human Creations for Curiosity to see what Happens.

Again i Vaguely remember so bare with me ;) i could have Misinterpreted what i Vaguely remember ;)

I do Recall in Furious Gods it was a case of the Prometheus Crew where off to meet what the Writers Considered Prometheus... (Engineers)  I have always been Fascinated in how such Mythos could Tie in with the Engineers ;)

Curiosity is indeed part of the mythos. Pandora’s box is opened because of her curiosity and all the evils which befall men are let loose. But “hope” remains at the bottom of the box.

Shaw is perhaps the one who clings to faith and hope? But she is also driven by curiosity. She opens the box (awakens the Engineer) and lets loose mankind’s bane. :)

The Indication seems to Imply that they had Recovered the Face Huggers from the Pyramid at some point...

Because these Predators took them onto the Same Ship that they took the Body of Scar, after his Chest Buster, this Ship with those Face Huggers Crash down into the Forest.

Your Forgiven though... as its only something i remembered after my 3rd Viewing lol.... i now have made 4 and i am not sure i would watch it again.....

"The reason might simply be curiosity?"

Certainly and that is what i was saying, "They had achieved so much.... and thought maybe... OK.. so whats NEXT?"

So it was a Curiosity, Science is based a lot on such, we Ponder...... what is this?, what if we do that?, what is there?

Curiosity is a Driving Force for sure...

With the Engineers they are so Advanced, we have to assume their Genetical Engineer Knowledge and Tools are so Advanced.... that they can take Curiosity to other Levels.

For Example... its likely we have Tried and Pondered with Curiosity if we can Inter-Bread or Genetically  Cross Breed Species.....  Can you MIX a Cat with a Dog?  I am sure this has been a Question and Attempted before.. to NO Success but the Curiosity would have been there...

But what if in Future then we Advance our Science were we Discover a Way to Create Such a Hybrid...  then if we allow our Curiosity to override our Moral Compass, then it would be a case of.... OK so what else can we now try and Cross-Breed.....

The Engineers who view themselves as Superior, maybe Gods would NOT have any such Moral Compass... and thats when indeed Curiosity could KILL the Cat!

So Curiosity, a sense of pushing Boundaries to what they could Create as a sign of Testing their Achievements and also perhaps being a bit Bored with what they are/have are Good reasons to go about and Create Something Else.

This is maybe similar to what Promotes David to do what he had done. (Alien Covenant) to a degree.

@Michelle

I think there has been a little Misunderstanding regarding the Point i was trying to raise which can get clouded in the amount i write... so i will try and make a Nutshell Version.


Lindeloff seems to be indicating the Sacrificial Scene was likely on Earth and that this EVENT is what started LIFE... indicating the World Before was Life-Less...   

The Movie was showing this World would have HAD to have signs of Life, but then Lindeloffs Comment can be taken as GOSPEL if certainly some take the Notion the World is FLAT!

What i am saying is that we can look at his Comment and look at the Opening Scene and it appears this World would have had to Already have some Basic Form of Life....   so my point was in Regards to Lindeloffs Comment... and how the Movie is Slightly Contradicting if you look at it from WHAT state the World was in prior.. this is a Oversight maybe... or indeed it does not Effect Really the whole POINT of the Scene.

The Evolution i talk about is in Spaights Draft the Sacrificial Scene was to show this Event caused the Engineers DNA to be Merged with already Existing Life (Primordial Humanoid)..  Then i was also looking at Ridley Scotts comments which suggest the Engineers have done this over and over on  Worlds....

so all i was saying was that (Considering all and NOT just Lindeloff) the Sacrificial Scene was to show the Engineers Sacrifice was a Catalyst to Evolve Life to become Complex and so without that Sacrifice then there would likely be NO LIFE as we know it. (it was not to dispute or suggest others on here had NOT understand that was the point of the Scene)

In another Interview i think i recall Lindeloff suggesting a Process of Evolution but i cant quite recall when/where this was so i could be MISTAKEN...

I was pointing out that REGARDLESS... in what way or Version we look at, the Indication remains the SAME.... the Engineers use the Sacrificial Rituals to lead to a World to have LIFE as we know it.....

It is likely that World had Basic Life before that Scene, but we cant rule out of a similar EVENT had happened that provided the Basic Life....  Ridley Scott had proposed if the Engineers are the Forerunners of Mankind, then what makes it Possible for Worlds to Support Life in the First Place... where is the Big Guy.

So what this is saying is that Worlds get Terra-formed, they then have Water, and Basic Life which could be a Created Event.. then these Worlds are RIPE for the Donation of a Engineers DNA, and we Cant rule out if this Process is done over and over.

So all i am saying is we have to Consider what the Movie Shows, and what Ridley Scott, Lindeloff and Spaights say about the Scene  as a WHOLE (but in Context to the Final Cut) and to NOT just take One Persons Word for it....

So Regardless what the Scene shows is how you are saying, and thats EXACTLY how i see it too...  i was only merely adding that the Scene Visually did-not look like this World was LIFE-LESS and thats all i was saying in that Regards....

I was not intending for us to Consider other Deleted Scenes, which give us different reasons for Creation, such as Jon Spaights Alien 01 The Master Narrative to Deleted Dialog between the Elder Engineer and Sacrificial Engineer....

These are Deleted or Changed and so SHOULD NOT be considered as what is happening... Things Change.... i mean in 2012 there was not the Thought that David Created the Xenomorph, but that seems to be the Case Now... so then certain stuff we have to Throw Out and Not Considered....

I had understood the Reason for the Deletion of some Scenes are Pacing, for a Theatrical Cut the Company (FOX) would prefer something to be more to 2 Hours and so some things get CUT.

Ridley Scott had indicated the Elders Scene would have given a bit too much away, and so the removal of the Scene Creates a Sense of Mystery...... he also DID-NOT want to meet GOD in the First Movie as you pointed out....

Lindeloff just gives the Explanation about having the Engineers Talk would take away some Mystery and it would be more Mysterious if we dont get to see them Talk, as well they would not be Interested in Talking to us seems his insight into it....

I was not trying to cover any such Deleted Scenes... there are Other reasons some Scenes get CUT!  For example by Re-Shooting the Dr Shaw vs Engineer Scene, after Shooting the Scripted Version, means we see our Engineer Enter the Ship with Burns.. so they would then have had to Deleted Scenes prior from the point of the Engineer leaving the Juggernaut because it would contradict what the Shot that they decided to have would have shown  (Face Burn).

I think a lot of times i write too much and people can get lost in what i am writing and i struggle to keep things in a NUTSHELL

So i think often things are overlooked or misunderstood and i maybe end up Flooding the Site...

so i may Consider taking a Break from such Places until we get any News of any other Movie... as i Understand peoples Posts can get LOST among the Masses of Posts i make.... i just have a Great Interest into the Prequels and what Potential they had prior to 2015

so those last few Paragraphs are NOT Relevant to what i was pointing out... which was that INDEED... the Sacrificial Scene was to show that the Engineers are involved in the Creation and Evolution of Life on Worlds.

This requires a Sacrifice with the Sacrificial Mutagen to Spread their DNA... and so really its a case of NO SUCH EVENT... and its indicated that Worlds, well our World would NOT have Life as we know it.

@BigDave

For me this post "Sep-16-2019 5:09 PM" gets the numb of my frustration. 

We are not discussing the evolution of a scene we are discussing what the scene actually used means. 

The opening scene is intent on sending out one message. Evolution of the humanoid experience involved planned intervention through a ritual of sacrifice.

The attack and fragmentation on existing cells which reform in a much more graceful and more sophisticated way is a clear sign of upgrade.

I am not at home this week so I cannot replay the Scott or Lindelof/Spaiht's commentary, I recall Ridley saying it might be earth so it is about intervention in humankind's development. I am well aware of the journey to this final sequence but that is not important in describing whether Prometheus had a firm grip of what it is trying to say. By talking about all the various evolutionary elements merely clouds the issue here, which is the film vague? It is not in this scene, what lies behind it is for later but what it communicates is clear.  

Pietro Scalia offers his insights as to why the 8 Engineers are left out, for a long time they were in the cut, but they wanted to retain mystery and meet God in the second film.

Thats important in judging the reasoning for the cut was it because they wanted to avoid showing the quasi sacramental nature of the donation? There is no evidence to support that notion. Indeed none of the cuts made were excluded for reasons of content but pace, with the exception of the dialogue about the Engineers coming from Paradise. Pietro's Scalia offered his view is the idea was not carried through, Paradise could mean earth but in general the connection was not thought through. In understanding where they go next that might be important but I am unconvinced by Pietro's argument, the dialogue offered from the woken Engineer was cut and that is why you could not refer to it. But in the end going to meet God is important, whether you call it Paradise or not.

I promise to listen to the two commentaries next week and check if there are ambiguities across the three contributors.

@chili

When a micro biologist puts something in a petri dish he is curious to see what the outcome is. It's a form of experiment to see what you can grow. So curiosity is part of the reason you put something in a Petri Dish. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. 

David applies the same logic with his bottle of bubbles.           

"David turned the ampule on its length and the black cloudy substance lurking at the top of the ampule filtered down and merged with the Green Liquid. David snapped the end off the ampule and placed his right index finger on the opening he had created. He looked intently into the black droplet on the end of his finger. He had opened the lid of Pandora’s Pithos.

To him though it was a simply a moment of curiosity and he relied on his alter ego and Dryden’s words for the narrative.

 “Big Things Have Small Beginnings.”

He replaced the Cylinder and ........................

David knew the origins of the proverb, ‘Curiosity kills the cat.’ and its associations with one of those plays of Shakespeare kept in the Life Boat. However what had just happened was not “Much a Do About Nothing” it was quite the opposite it was about everything, and  it re opened the way to Pandemonium." 

Chapter 6 Connections. 

Your use of the phrase amused me.

The reason for Engineers (as Mr Weyland) to move forward (knowledge) doesn’t have to be “The Petri Dish Argument”. The reason could be curiosity. Explorers have mapped down Earth and what's beneath it (the sea) and to some extent what’s above it (space). The reason might simply be curiosity? But, “curiosity killed the cat” . . .

BD- thanks. So that scene suggests (I have no idea about any novels or comics) that the Predators had been doing this on other worlds and that the face huggers and xenos were not exclusive to earth.

I tried to re watch AVPR but was quickly reminded on why I hate on it. That said, this could become a good pop corn series or at least a streaming movie. With some decent writing and bringing back Alexa, it could make a decent one off- and with a movie we can actually see without NVGs lol! 

Having gone through the Commentary  little bit again, what we have is the (mainly Lindeloff) referring to what the Sacrificial Scene was, because it had Evolved a bit from Concept, to Drafts, to Shooting to the Cutting Room to then Lindeloffs essential some what of a Lazy Get out Card approach... to certain Scenes as its FAR Easier than give any kind of Explanation.  its always Nice to see Spaights and Ridley Scott always try and give us a bit more though..

So if we take Lindeloff as the Final Say on the Matter, then it implies the Sacrificial Scene was the START of Life as we know it...   its a case of IF we take his word as the Word of YHWH in Biblical Accounts.

So what i am saying is there is Room to Elaborate on this, than to Purely Accept him as the Final Say.

The Sacrificial Scene had Evolved from Concept to End Product after the Cutting Room but it still remained pretty much the Same....  The Engineers perform such a Ritual to Seed DNA that then Forms a Massive Role in the Creation/Evolution of Life.

As stated by Spaights in the Commentary, his Sacrificial Scene was showing the Sacrifice Resulted in the Engineers DNA, being Infused with a Primitive Female to Create a Hybrid... the Sacrificial Scene thus acted as a Evolutionary Process.

12'000 Years BC this took place, but its indicated in Spaights work that Further Signs of our Genetic Evolution happened every 1100 Years.  So in Spaights work we have been Genetically Engineered about 12 Times since his Sacrificial Scene.

Ridley Scott had indicated after Prometheus that the Engineers would come back over Periods of Time to Genetically Evolve us.

If we consider Lindeloffs work...

His Sacrificial Scene we arrive at a World that has Plant Life, a World that is Primed and Ready for the Donation of Genetic Material.   The Scene goes on to suggest the Engineers Body that becomes Ashes, some of this Enters the Water and then it shows us a Fast Forwards...  to something coming out of the Water...

A Hand, Fingers, he indicates its hard to tell if its Human or Salamander....

The Exposition here is that the Sacrificial Scene certainly plays into the role of Evolution on a World... on Earth... if we ASSUME this Sacrificial Scene was the FIRST signs of Life, so that from that Scene it Directly leads to a Life-Form that comes from the Water....  well how UNLIKELY is this?

Not Unlikely if there is a Missing Time-Line... so the Engineers Sacrifice Eventually leads to this...

Concept work and Story Boards Elaborate more on this Scene, showing us a Flash Forwards through Evolution, and so indicating that without the ENGINEERS SACRIFICE there would have been NO LIFE as we know it....

If we look at Prometheus then the World is NOT a Baron Place, we are not seeing a World that has NO LIFE.... and i think we can come to Milburns comment on the Deleted Scene (Our First Alien)  about the Discovery of that Worm, where he says that Mankind has NOT yet discovered such Life on other Worlds beyond Microscopic and Bacterial...

so i think when we look at this as a whole.... it is likely the Engineers Sacrifice is what acts as the Catalyst to Spark the Evolution of Basic Life to more Complex.... so INDEED without the Sacrificial Rituals then such Worlds would NOT have Life thats Complex and thus as far as on Earth.... NO SACRIFICIAL SCENE and that means NO LIFE as we know it....

Lindeloff on the Commentary just seems like he is putting out Half Baked as Easy Explanations.... so he implies the Sacrificial Scene was HOW Life Began.. PEROID..

Which unless you look at that with Biblical Reading Tinted Glasses, we should know that for the World in Prometheus to look how it does, then Basic Life would have already had to have been on this Place...

which his Earlier Drafts seem to indicate, it just seemed he was not interested in giving any kind of Detail (as usual)....

However i think i recall a Interview where he mentions the Sacrificial Scene being what leads to Evolution of Life, i would have to try and dig that out....

What i am saying is not to Dish Dirt.... but that in that Moment on the Commentary he maybe Omitted to be as Specific on that Occasion...

I think Regardless.... the Overall Indication is that the Sacrificial Rituals are they way the Engineers would use their DNA/Genetic Material so that LIFE can either Form or Evolve due to this Event (Pathogen)

If we consider Spaights concepts, and Ridley Scotts comments he has made prior to 2013 then it seems the Engineers have performed this Sacrifice on other Worlds and even Over and Over on the same Worlds.... so we could Speculate that our Creation maybe has not come from ONE such Ritual but many of the Course of the Many Many Millions of Years of the Explosion of Evolution.

Just to quickly cover the Petri Dish Comment..

In a Nutshell this is merely to suggest that Creation, and what leads to US is not any Divine Process... it is just a Experiment that can be done by the Engineers due to their Tools and Knowledge... so there is NOTHING as Special or Important in the Creation of Life, as indicated from some Religions...

All the Engineers needed was the Sacrificial Tool and a Genetic Donation and then the Substance would do the Rest!

Again its not exactly indicated WHY.... it kind of is from Early Drafts and Concept of Idea, and slightly via Deleted Scenes...

To a degree its later indicated because they COULD! but there are other Reasons that could be at Play... i think looking at David as a Proxy could give us Insight.

If we Consider some of Spaights ideas... then to Place this as Basis a Explanation as Lindeloff has... we could Consider these Engineers are Millions of Years Old, they have Evolved themselves to a Certain Point..

They had achieved so much.... and thought maybe... OK.. so whats NEXT?  What can they do to SHOWCASE just how Advanced and Great they are... so its a Case of maybe Lets go and try and Create something from Scratch.

So when we look at Weyland he had done similar, he had made Great Technological Advances, a Pioneer in many Fields, people will Remember his Accomplishments.. so he would be thinking so WHATS NEXT?  And so the Creation of a Artificial Being in his Image who would ONE-DAY be almost Indistinguishable from a Human...  would MAKE it one of the Greatest Accomplishments of Mankind.

A Feat that would prove really how GREAT our Mr Weyland is....  as he claimed... "we are the Gods now"

But then there becomes more than Because he Could..

There are then Applications to his Creation, where he could then use his Creations as  a Tool, a Servant a Commodity, something to do Tasks so that We Dont Have to!  (The Alien Covenant Prologue gives us a bit more about David).  

But the point is that his Creation is something that Weyland decided to do, so that he could PROVE how Great that Weyland really could be... to Prove he could PLAY GOD... but then to Put his Creation to Certain Use!

We could Speculate had the Engineers then decided similar for us?

I think if we look at the Basic Explanation that Lindeloff had offered, then its kind of like the PLOT for  The Planet or the Apes Reboot!

Where Scientist Create a Drug that could Improve the Cognition of a Primate...  so its ONCE they have Evolved the Primates Brain, its a case of OK lets Test really how close this Enhanced Primate can become more Cognitive and to what LEVEL can this Improved Primate now Learn!

So with regards to the Engineers, it would be like... "so we have Proved we can Create/Evolve Life in our Own Image... lets see how FAR and Close this Creation can Learn from us"

The closer their Creation can Replicate the Achievements of the Engineers would be a sign of just HOW Great their Ability to Create is..

The same applies to Weyland with David, to take on him as his Personal Android, where he can Push the Boundaries of HOW LIFE LIKE can he make David... thus likely why he had more Free-Will and Emotional Capabilities as he was Weylands Test Subject to see just HOW CLOSE to a Human can Weylands Creation Become... making him more God-Like in the Process.

All at a HUBRIS! for all those Concerned... be it Create Mankind, Create Synthetics or Evolve Cognitive Ability of a Ape....

Yeah! "I saw it the other Day and the Predators had Transported a number of Face Huggers onto the Ship."

IT being AVPR....  well the Opening Act.

Here is a On Set take of that Scene.

"3) The idea of P/BR is we were made with purpose but no love. We were made because you can for the convenance of the creator"

The intention of Prometheus indeed was not 1 or 2, but to Step Between those Boundaries, of a None Accidental Creation by a Ancient Race who indeed were playing lets see what we can Create.

The Evolution of the Concept has changed the Outlook on a Reason WHY we was Created, after the Changes and Removal of Deleted Scenes, then we are Left with the Theatrical Cut....  we with Comments mainly by Lindeloff we are indeed shown that its case of those Engineers maybe just could.....

I think Lindeloff just has a Lazy Outlook to it a little, while Spaights seemed to have more sense of Depth, thats not Disputing WHY we was Created... Theatrically its left not really explained...  the whole its because we could was a Get Out Card of sorts...

But even if this is the Intention, that we was Created because they could.... then there is the Interesting Part of what do you do Once you realize what you could Create, what Intention then....

And as you mention.. "if that tenuous relationship breaks down"  it is really Interesting that you are maybe going to touch on what became of this Relationship Once these Would be Gods proved they could go and Create in their Own Image.

BD- when in AVP did predators transport face huggers? Do you mean AVPR?

The contradiction between Damon and Ridley on the nature of the Mutagen. Wipeout/ start again or Evolve. 

In Damon's script

David says when he looks at the droplet.

"From here to the other side."

When he is discussing her pregnancy he says.

"You might want to consider this is not destruction it maybe creation"

Both of these were replaced by "in order to create first you must destroy."

The former belong to a Mutagen that alters the target (Hammerpedes,Fifield,Holloway) the latter destruction the exploding head but,

I think for the sake of drama Elizabeth saying the Juggernaut is bringing death is far more effective than saying mankind will be replaced. So at a communication level for a mass audience calling it death and destruction is more powerful but for everyone to end up halfway toward the Deacon like Fifield is effectively death. In terms of story it doesn't matter and it never happened but we can see with Fifield, the Deacon and Charlie, mankind's future, thats whats being communicated.

In my own work I retain the original phraseology because it has story telling value which plays into the crescendo of Jeopardy towards the end of Regained. I also share with the reader what is happening to Charlie, so the jeopardy of the Juggernaut arriving at earth is that much clearer.

However the exact nature of the Black gloop in the film is unimportant its obvious the outcomes are horrific which ever outcome and most importantly they tell us where the Xeno type outcomes originated from.   

On the question of the final height of the Space Jockey (which is all that matters) their are detailed scaled drawings  indicating the final size chosen of 8 feet shown in the FG documentary and in terms of discussing the film makers achievements that is all the matters even if there are sketches early on which indicate a taller being. It evolved to a fixed tradition.

@BigDave

First bracket -Answer

Why did Frankenstein make the monster and Weyland David and in the latter case pursue 8 upgrades. Hubris/an aspiration to be God because they were able to but most important of all it was not out of love for their creations. It was non consensual and when both made demands or looked for equivalence guess what happened. There is your allegory for dark angels/mankind.

Second Bracket - Answer.

Elizabeth wants to have it confirmed we are not alone and that when we die our soul resides somewhere. After the experience on the Moon she wants to know why they created us and why they wanted to destroy us. By the end of Prometheus she knows we are not alone but in away that she is not convinced is the final answer.  

The issue of soul and where it resides is a very emotional issue for her (mother and father) it becomes a central driver of the final act and David plays a significant role who we also know is interested in, being artificial where he fits in. In Prometheus he is profoundly interested in Elizabeths preoccupation with this part of her journey and continues to be so. David understands the context of soul before Elizabeth for a story telling reason.

Third bracket - Answer

The issue of the Engineers Home world and to what extent we would regard it as Paradise. The answers are :-

1) Would mankind consider it Paradise? Depends who you ask.    

2) Would the creatures of the Moon consider it Paradise. No otherwise they would still be there. They are Promethean and ended up with the same fate. 

3) Does Elizabeth feel she has arrived at Paradise no she believes she has arrived at the Engineers Home world which also turns out to be incorrect. Does it feel like her definition of Paradise in terms serenity beauty captivating Yes at some points in the story. But she doesn't say ah this is Paradise she says at one point wow this experience is pure Paradise or she sees something and says this is a veritable Paradise. David finds a truth which enables them to understand all sorts of things including what is Paradise and Paradise Lost. 

4) Do they meet Adam and Eve. Yes and No. 

5) Do they find Heaven. Yes and No.  

We were made by dark angels but in the end they came from the "Engineers Home world" and so to use Ridley's word we have recall/foot prints embedded within us which are a fragment of the truth so that is why the truth looks a little like our myths but a lot like something altogether different. The reason the truth is hidden from us is appalling indeed the most appalling truth of my vision but it explains a good deal of why we are the way we are.  

To come back to the central point of this entire arc of thinking begun with Prometheus and Bladerunner.

1) Some people believe we are an accident of all the elements of creation coming together Darwinism. They do not look for a loving creator.

2) Some people believe in divine intervention through the power of a loving God.

3) The idea of P/BR is we were made with purpose but no love. We were made because you can for the convenance of the creator and if that tenuous relationship breaks down from the creators perspective start again.   

Certainly i think its interesting to see how others would TRY and Continue with Prometheus, expand maybe some things that were a bit Vague in Terms of Theatrically and to offer a Continuation of Questions Raised by Prometheus and those that are NOT really Answered in Prometheus...  As far as Theatrically.

*We get Indication that we are a Product of the Engineers Interference both from our Genetic Origins and Creations, to our Development from Cave-Men to the level of Technology just prior to the Middle Ages

(We never got much indication of WHY this Investment of Time by the Engineers).

*We see at some point the Engineers had conducted Experiments that are NOT really Genetically Connected to us, such Horrors which Theatrically was Ambiguous to WHY and so we have Davids "sometimes to create one must first destroy" to go by.

(And so these are things that also a Sequel could covered, because again in Part these are things Dr Shaw would want Answers too).

*In spite of their Discovery, where Dr Shaw may have been so Wrong... she holds on to her Faith that surely a God would not be so Cruel and so WHO had Created them.

(so this is something ELSE that she wants to Discover but would such a Discovery be closer to her Faith or even Further away and Horrific).

*We have the Arc of David, a Superior Creation, who feels Mistreated by his Creator (and Humans), who longs to be Free, and Finally Becomes Free, he has a Dislike for Humans, but in Dr Shaw he comes across a Interesting Case, and so it seems he is Interested in WHAT drives her to Carry On, in Spite of the Discoveries.  Her Faith is what drives her on, and gives her Strength and also contributes to her Kindness.

(so its a Question of Davids interest in this and what effect Dr Shaw has on David, and how they could change his outlook on Life and Purpose is something that could have been explored).

*We then come to the Extended Scene a little... were Dr Shaw does want to go to where they (Engineers) come from for her Answers as she has Nothing to go back home to.  And the Extended Version we know David says the Engineer told him they come from a Place we would call PARADISE...

(so there is that to Explore, in what Context would we consider the Engineers World Paradise?).

Then you do have other Questions like What is a Soul?, where do we go when we Die?  I think its interesting to see David go on a Journey for more of a Purpose than he was Created, and Dr Shaw could certainly Inspire him, so there are a lot of Blade Runner like Themes to be explored....  would it be IRONIC that David is the only being who is actually as close to having the Soul that Dr Shaws Faith would indicate?

So i am not offering my view on any of these, just Highlighting some of the things to have explored that had not really been done so in Alien Covenant.

And so the parts in the (Brackets) are showing what Potentially could had been Explored, and that i think in part is the reason you went about with your Version of where to go NEXT... which i think has been a Labor of Love and something Interesting to Eventually Read ;)

Surely i think they was on the Same Page of where they was going, what i was saying is that things CHANGE and Evolve, as they go along... they keep/change things from Jon Spaights work until Lindeloffs, then his work is changed a bit for Shooting then things are changed in the Edit Process.

But they all had the same idea of where they are Evolving the Process, and they had a Broad Strokes idea of where they are going Next....  which would have been to STEER away from ALIEN and go where Dr Shaw and David would go.....

Ridley Scott gave us some Clues to where it would go, and some would come back to some of the Questions that Dr Shaw had.....

Who Made Them?

Why they Created us?

Why they changed their Minds?

Is there a Creator above the Engineers, it seemed this was the Indication of WHERE they would go NEXT and then its a case of are THESE beings Benevolent and not like those Engineers... the indication would be that they WOULD NOT be...

so this is OFF TOPIC.. but i was to show that they had a Idea where roughly we would go NEXT... before the Process of this become something that they could not get a Working Draft they was pleased with between 2013-2014....... which brought us to the Changes in 2015 that became Alien Covenant.... which really brushed aside a lot of what a Prometheus 2 could have covered.

One Final thing, the Commentary does give us more indication of the Infection and in other Interviews indeed i recall it was suggested that Fifield would eventually had ended up like the Engineer Head, and that Holloway was going the same way (slower Rate).

Which if we consider that, then it would suggest the Black Goo was to Replicate the Pathogen in a Human Host but then would Destroy the Humanoids.... But other Life-Forms would instead Mutate into something ELSE.

A Confusion comes from the Movie is Ambiguous without the Commentary, and then you have to try and Consider what is going on, and then you could be drawn to looking at Previous concepts and Drafts for say Fifield which would give you a different indication of the Effects, than what the Commentary had suggested.

So i think in Context to the TOPIC its a case of these Writers are telling us what is going on with Certain Scenes that are more Ambiguous Visually.

I will add regarding the Engineer and Scale..... i was always one to accept the Space Jockey as a Engineer, the Flaw as Scale... by that i mean there is a Difference in Size which we have to put down to a Oversight!

The Intention was to have the Engineers as being TALLER... but for what ever reasons, at Shooting they decided to use 7ft+ Actors and hope that Camera Angles can make them appear Larger.

some Fans will use the Scale to Argue the Engineers certainly cant be the Space Jockey....  the Intention at Shooting is 8ft beings.... but they could have continued with the Space Jockey by simply showing that there could be TALLER Engineers..  Not EVERY Human is about 6ft, so if there are 7.5ft Humans then WHY NOT some 10ft Engineers? (same difference between 7.5ft Human to 6ft Human).

The other thing that could support the Size Difference, if we accept that Engineers are NOT all Uniform 8ft would be the Comment by Dallas.... it looks like it Grew Out of the Chair.... so that could explain the Space Jockey also growing a bit more.

So for me the Scale is NOT a massive Problem, for MANY it is...  When i discus the Scale it on the basis that this was INTENDED to be bigger, but what we got is NOT and that they could have used Special Effects but Ridley Scott had decided to NOT do and as i pointed out above, having 8ft Engineers should not really Conflict the differences.

Because Humans are not limited to 6ft, and so say just as a 7.5ft Human could Grow out the Chair, then Taller Engineers could become Larger likewise.

@Michelle

I know sometimes things can be hard to make out in my posts and people can get lost, sometimes i do too ;)

I was mainly agreeing with what you put, as far as looking at what the Commentary shows us, i think i need to Consider to what CONTEXT is this Topic... and to look at it as Watching the Movie and Commentary with your EYES CLOSED.... then Fundamentally certain things we dont get to see.....  I maybe JUMPED the Gun a little, as i have NOT seen the Commentary for a LONG Time and then i have only seen it Properly just Once, as far as Start to Finish.

so i think i have to Watch it Again then come back.....

As far as Contradictions i was talking only slightly, NOT that there is a Massive Shift.... the Bigger Shifts are from Concept Alien 01 The Master Narrative  to the Various Drafts... right to the Cutting Room Floor.

So in Context to the Topic... maybe its to discus the Theatrical Cut, and parts of the Furious Gods, Screen Writers Commentary and any Interviews only in Context to the Promoting of the Box Office Release and after and the Promoting of the DVD Release.

so i maybe should NOT be offering any comments UNTIL i have watched the Commentary again.

So from what i recall, the Furious Gods and Commentary was intending to Support the Movie by suggesting..

*Mankind is neither a Product of a Random Events or Evolution, or Creation by a Magical Godlike beings.

*The Engineers are a Ancient Humanoid Race who had played a Role in our Creation via Sacrificing one of their own so that their Sacrifice/DNA is what leads to our Creation or Evolution... regardless which way we look at it or where this Took Place, it was to show us that WITHOUT the Engineers Performing this Sacrifice then there would be NO Humans or at least other Complex Life.

*The Clues that Dr Shaw and Holloway had discovered are indications that Mankind was Pre-visited by beings from Space who are indicated to have Influenced our Evolution as far as Knowledge.   They had left Clues that the Scientists saw as a Map, that takes us to LV-223

*The discovery on LV-223 of these Humanoid Engineers that have a DNA match is to show us that we CAME from them.

*The Indication from what i recall was that the Engineers had become Disappointed with how we turned out, and they had began to Experiment with various things that related to the Black Goo, in order to go and USE this on us to EVOLVE us, see what happens to us.

This is one thing by Lindeloff, that RS contradicts a little by when he says they had Created a Specific Bio-Weapon to use on Unruly Creations who had got out of Control and that they use this to WIPE the Slate Clean...

I think i will come back to other stuff after i have Re-Watched the Commentary

A lot of stuff had no Answers, and was left Ambiguous, such as WHY we was created, and WHY we was to be Destroyed more so WHY we had been Created.  It depends with these who you Listen to as far as Writers or Ridley Scott  also Lindeloff makes it NO secret that he Avoids explaining things, sometimes this comes across as Lazy, but then as he says it leaves things open to discus and if you are more Direct and Spoon Feed stuff then when you go to make a Sequel you kind of have to Stick with what was said prior.

I also have school work.

I saw it the other Day and the Predators had Transported a number of Face Huggers onto the Ship.

The Pred-Alien Comment is interested as INDEED it seemed to Produce Normal Xenomorphs that lacked any Predator DNA.

The Appearance was as with ALIENS and so it contradicts the theories we could have about WHY there was differences between Xenomorphs in the Franchise.

Such as Different Cargo Holds....

Or that they loose the Dome Carapace as they Mature.

"Prometheus is really an existential journey: Is there a God? Is there a purpose? Are we alone in the universe?"

Certainly the Purpose of the Movie was to indicate that the TWO Fundamental Beliefs that we have on Earth are neither Correct...  We are NOT a Product of a Accidental Event that then leads to a series of things being at the Right Place and Time to lead to Evolution, while also showing we are NOT created by Mythical Magical Gods but that we are the Product of the Donation/Sacrifice of Genetic Material from some Ancient Humanoids, who then further came back to Evolve us Technologically (Knowledge) and Genetically

So through Dr Shaw she is a Woman Brought up on Faith and so she is Searching for something MORE, likewise Weyland is to a degree too (he mainly just wants to  be Granted Extended Life) and so through Dr Shaw and the comment by Weyland the Movie was loosely asking "where are from" and "where do we go" when we DIE that is.  With Prometheus they had indicated the First One, but "where we go" was Never answered.

So Dr Shaw is making Discoveries that Contradict parts of her Faith, but she is still holding on to her Faith that there has to be more than what she Discovered, Questioning who Created the Engineers, and perhaps expecting surely there must be some Benevolent Creator above the Engineers.

Regarding the Weyland Death Scene.... it has a slight amount of Ambiguity for some, but it is more clearly saying that there is NOTHING for Weyland to gain for his Agenda of these Gods can Grant him more Life....

We then come to that Question.. Where do we go when we DIE?  Mr Weyland asked that in his Hologram Briefing....  and Weyland is NOW about to Die and he will SOON Discover if there is NOTHING! or if he will INDEED he will LIVE ON in a After Life.... this i feel is WHY it is that David said about the GOOD JOURNEY...

Hmm. Ok.

AVPR was very dark and pretty much black at crucial parts.

They may have misinterpreted Dan O'bannon's premise for less is more. too much darkness actually bores people.

I Raptus There is probably good reason why you haven't watched AVPR in a while. You have my sympathies if you re-watch.

Michelle

I think Sir Peter Weyland is perhaps interpreted as a too one-dimensional character - selfish (money, prolonging his own life). He is really interested in philosophical questions and has made important discoveries in medicine (curing cancer).

In Prometheus, Weyland himself says: “I have spent my entire lifetime contemplating the questions: Where do we come from? What is our purpose? What happens when we die?”

In Alien: Covenant, Weyland says to David: “I refuse to believe that mankind is a random byproduct of molecular circumstances. No more than the result of mere biological chance. No . . . there must be more. And you and I, son, we will find it”.

In this context, it makes sense that the dying Weyland in Prometheus disappointingly says “There is nothing” and David agrees: “I know”. When David wishes him “a good journey”, I wonder if he isn’t sarcastic or ironic (not loving his “father”). “The journey” is, of course, the death struggle.

I’ve been really busy with school work and football. But don’t worry I’ll be here to only respond to topics such as aquatic or terrestrial battles.  

Nice to see you’re back shark! I agree that Purussaurus would win, unless Titanoboa actually did feed on crocodiles. Then I think Titanoboa would win

Ok.

I got it from sameerprehistorica 

I choose Purussaurus,also The True Shark boy,did you take inspiration from my topic:

Deinosuchus Vs. Titanoboa?