Comments (Page 218)

Gavin

#2 - They were humans from Earth that stumbled across the Juggernauts and were granted a slice of paradise in return for their services of seeding/wiping out planets.

A lot of fans believe option 1 to be canon, while I prefer option 2. In truth all evidence shown in-film thus far neither proves or disproves either choice, so I won't bother listing them here. Regardless, it all comes down to what the role of the Engineers is meant to be. Are they our nefarious masters or are they merely slaves being used by a nefarious third party.

Yeah, I go with it.

Interesting idea for a book. But what can we get in a film with multiple human species? Two hours about fingering, playing flute, or dialogues in high syllable? This is the main question we have to ask. And the answer is - we have already seen this many times.

Problem with different kind of human - we can see it in many many other works. Same with AI themes. Star Gate, BSG, Star Track. Alien Universe will be just another "skin" for this. Alien Universe has always been about original and non-standard themes.

OK. Engineers are space gardeners, but who said they sow only human species? The Earth can be a single experiment, a Petri dish - as Charlie said in Prometheus cut scene. I have to say - it should be a NON-HUMAN species.

---

But if we talking about different kind of humans. I think Arcturians can be another creation of Engineers. Frost from Aliens said that gender doesn't matter when it's Arcturians. AND NOW - look at Engineers! Look at original Engineers from Planet 4. See the point? May be Arcturians are closer to Engineers, than humans. Arcturians is successful experiment, humans - no. From this point of view to explore the Arcturians would be very interesting. Especially if they have a more biomechanical aesthetics. We even can see the rituals between Arcturians and xenomorphs.

OK. We can go further. How about humans with Double-Y chromosome? Maybe it's not a just mutation, but the intention of engineers. At the beginning of the experiment failed, but then evolution found a way and humans with YY is a true descendants of Engineers. But with a bugs - antisocial behavior may be due to Black Goo. Something from Alien. Creatures of Black Goo have always been aggressive... to another kind: Hammerpedes, Fifield, Neomorphs, Xenomorphs. But within the species, they mostly don't show aggression.

Maybe humans with Double-Y subconsciously don't perceive ordinary people as their own kind.

It also allows you to think about the differences between Sacrifice Engineer and The Last Engineer. It can also be different species. And The Last Engineer something like Double-Y and has more xenomorph traits.

The way I see it there are two possibilities/choices when it comes to the origins of the Engineers...

#1 - They are an ancient race of super-humanoids that are seeding variants of themselves throughout the galaxy/universe, or

#2 - They were humans from Earth that stumbled across the Juggernauts and were granted a slice of paradise in return for their services of seeding/wiping out planets.

A lot of fans believe option 1 to be canon, while I prefer option 2. In truth all evidence shown in-film thus far neither proves or disproves either choice, so I won't bother listing them here. Regardless, it all comes down to what the role of the Engineers is meant to be. Are they our nefarious masters or are they merely slaves being used by a nefarious third party.

The problem in determining which is true is the ambiguity of it all. Nowhere in either Prometheus or Covenant does it state that the Engineers created us, this is merely Shaw's belief. The sacrificial scene could be on any planet, and the form of the life created from the Engineers sacrifice is not shown. While some claim this scene is showing our genesis, it could just as easily be the genesis of the much-fabled Xenomorph Prime on another planet out there.

Same with the Engineers DNA, which is stated by Shaw to predate our own. This could mean the Engineers DNA (of which is 2000 year old remember) predates human DNA in general, or modern human DNA (if the sample had been taken from the preserved remains of a caveman, they would also predate our own).

Then there are the Engineers themselves. Of which we have been shown two variants; the organic (sacrificial, Planet 4) and the biomechanical (LV-223). The biomechanical augments are shown to be necessary to interface with the Juggernauts, but with the organic Engineers being the original Engineers and thus detached from the Juggernaut technology due to their lack of biomechanical augments, it raises the question of where that technology comes from. For me, this together with the organic Engineers primitive technology and language (which has human, not alien origins) heavily suggests that the Juggernaut technology is not theirs, making them formerly human slaves to an evidently more advanced alien higher power and therefore not our masters.

In both Prometheus and Covenant it is inferred that the Engineers rebelled against said higher power, with the LV-223 outbreak circa 2000 years ago likely saving us from the extinction order that had been given, and with the Planet 4 Engineers either stopping development of the Black Pathogen/Mutagen or engineering to create life instead of destroying it. I think this rebellious nature of the Engineers, which aligns them with the dark angels of Christian theology is intended to confuse. To their overlords, the Engineers are rebels and dark angels, but to us, they are our saviors. Demons to some, Angels to others, or as Obi-Wan once wisely said "many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view."

The Aurora Song also indicates about incoming Creators coming to Earth in a Mothership to take some Humans who are Different to HOME.  Mentioning also about Superman (Übermensch) talking about being Infected and Different and Worthy of not Staying in this Place (Earth).

Its easy to connect the Song to Potentially what the Engineers could have done in the Past...  Engineer Worlds and Humanoids to then TAKE the results they are proud of and aimed for away to another Place.

This is what i Speculated Planet 4 was before RS made his comments about those Engineers are the Originals.. I thought prior that maybe the Engineers Seed Worlds and Evolve Humanoid Life to obtain certain Specimens and then take these to Planet 4 as a place to Store more Pure/Perfect Genetic Stock.

Prior to Alien Covenant i had speculated and even intended to use for my Future Prometheus Movie ideas, that the Engineers would come back/forth from Earth taking Generations of Humans to LV-223 to  UPGRADE and then Seed Back.

My Prometheus 3 would have sent David and Dr Shaw to a FAR FAR away Engineer World were there are Humans and Engineers Living in Harmony... as i could not see that the Engineers would Put all their Eggs in One Basket, and so its likely Different Kinds of Humans live across the Galaxy.  

Even if we ignore that, i find it VERY odd the Engineers seemed to put a lot of Effort into Mankind to then Destroy us when its our Ways and Knowledge and Free-will that lead us to be Fallen...  A Child HOWEVER is born Pure.  So i found it VERY likely the Engineers would have came to Earth and TAKEN some Children Away to another PLACE... before they then would UNLEASH the Reset Switch on Earth.  Think just as God did with Noah and the Ark.

A part  Aurora's Song mentions Similar. 

"There is a flaw in man-made matters"  we could consider this as the Corrupt ways of Man

"But you are pure, and we have to get you out of here" could be taken as the taking of the Pure and UN-Corupt.  This is how GOD had viewed Noah.

Its likely after all the Effort the Engineers would also do the same with Mankind and Rescue some of us, and Children would be Innocent and Free from the Ways of Man that offended the Engineers.   The only way Logically the Engineers would-not attempt to TAKE some Humans away would be if there are MANY other Humans in the Galaxy or we came from some other Place.

I think this could link to David's Agenda... it seems he was disappointed with Mankind due to our Ways and how we Treated him, he felt Dr Shaw was Different (never met anyone so kind) and as he said to Daniels...  when she asked what Kind of a World could they Build.... "if we are KIND it  would be a KIND World"

So we could maybe see David go on to create his OWN kind of Human from the Embryo's not only trying to Improve on what the Engineers had done, but Human Embryos could be Raised to Children who are FREE from any Influences apart from those David would give them.

This in PART is what i felt we would see and it also seems similar to Ridley Scotts  TV Series Raised by Wolves.

The BROAD purpose of this Topic is to Discus the Various Kinds of Humanoids the Franchise could have, not Limited to Various Engineers, or Humans but also to what Mankind or David could do with the Engineers Secrets as far as Genetic Engineering and Pursuit of Perfection.

The indication by Ridley Scott that the Engineers Seed and Visit many Worlds and Genetically and Technologically Advanced Civilizations they Visit, and also that they also Destroy those they are Displeased/Feel Threatened by, indicating that they had done this to the Atlantis Civilization

When looking at how he also called the Engineers a Civilization and NOT a Race, and also mentioning that just as their are many Variants of Humans then WHY cant the same be said for the Engineers.

So within the Franchise the Potential is there for many Versions of Humanoids.... not only Created by Engineers, but also those who USE the Engineers Tools.

Personally its such things and the Hubris of such, as well as History and Culture and Conflict of Various Worlds of such Creations that is more INTERESTING than the Xenomorph!

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To carry on with WHICH of our Engineers would be Returning we need to look at our Engineers.

Prometheus and especially LV-223 showed what appear to be more Advanced Superior Engineers the Übermensch variants.  We have to Assume that as of the END of Prometheus that NONE of these are Alive.. but we CANT rule out any more of these in the Galaxy.

The Deleted Scene showed us the ELDERS who looked to be just more OLDER and Frail Versions of those Engineers, these are removed and not considered Canon as RS did-not want to meet the GODS as he put it in the FIRST Movie.

Alien Covenant had revealed to us a more Primitive, Less Superior more Human looking Faction of Engineers that Ridley Scott had mentioned are the ORIGINAL Engineers.  By the END of Alien Covenant we have to Assume that NONE of these are Alive on Planet 4 but we CANT rule out any more of these in the Galaxy.

We also got to see the HALL OF HEADS which seemed very Reminiscent of the Big Head Statue in Prometheus but also the ELDERS from the Deleted Scene (Prometheus) these depict what are very Wise/Ancient and Superior Beings the Keepers of the Engineers Ways/Rituals and the Hierarchy.

Is this Merely a Small Group of Beings/Engineers or are there MANY of these and what makes them different to our Planet 4 and Prometheus Engineers is something to Ponder... are they LONG GONE? 

Maybe we CANT rule out any more of these in the Galaxy.

For Certain some form of ENGINEERS will return they return to Planet 4 and Various Intervals.

So maybe those Planet 4 Engineers are aware of other Engineers and Ships arriving?  it depend on what History is Passed on, and HOW often do Ships Return.

There was the Scorpion Ship so those Engineers are aware of the Technology and so would not be so IN AWE of it.

*Maybe the RETURN of Engineer Ships is a Event that is Once in a Life-Time or Few Generations for those Engineers?

*Maybe its a RETURN of the Military from WAR but surely Questions must be asked about HOW-LONG has it been since other such Military Ships arrive and WHY are they NOT concerned about such a Overdue Return?

*Maybe the RETURN usually signifies some Ritual and Important Event if we consider they are Genetic Gardeners of Space.

I just cant BUY the Theory that KROFT had as far as those Engineers simply dont have Technology and are Shocked and Surprised by seeing ONE turn up!

IF a ALIEN ship was to Turn up in a Busy City in the WORLD we would have some who would Rush Out to see it and Welcome it and be amazed... but other would be FEARFUL!

The Engineers were Gathering around the HANGER as if it had some Significant Importance, the Hanger can Store Juggernauts.   And there are other Juggernauts in the Hanger so they ARE aware of them but as this was not SHOWN in the Movie (Deleted Scene) we cant assume the Hanger has any Juggernauts but it is the Right Size for them and the Hanger was Opening Up for the Ship (The Scorpion Ship was already Airborne).

Maybe we could ASK for WHY the Engineer Flocked to the Hanger and WHY the Hanger had those 4 Statues in a Offering Pose?

Regarding which Engineers Turn up.... who knows... could we be Introduced to another Larger Humanoid Race/Faction again who knows..

@Queen Denton

Welcome aboard ;)

@Batchpool

There was some Conflicting Reports about the Draft, it was said they was working on it right NOW (as of the Release of Alien Covenant) but then in other interviews he had said its ready to go...

We can Speculate that the Basic Idea was like 80% Done at least....    i think the Disappointment at the Box Office of Alien Covenant and the Criticism had made FOX have to Re-Think what went so WRONG!

The Take Over Talks (Comcast and Disney) further put things on HOLD!

Its a Question of IF those in Charge at Disney want to pursue the kind of Plot that RS had indicated.

Points to Consider about the Sequels! as far as Ridley Scott has mentioned.

*We are 2-3 more Movies Away from the Back Door of ALIEN, and by the Conclusion we would KNOW who is Siting in that Chair and How they and those Eggs got there.

*The Xenomorph still has some Evolving to do before we get to ALIEN.

*They are going to the Planet (Origae-6) but there would be 3/4 Incoming Parties that would arrive, and ONE of those would be the Engineers who Discover what had happened to Planet 4 and want to find the Culprit.

*The Next Movie would be about "What Kind of a World" would David Create!

*The Next Movie would NOT be about the Xenomorph but it would be about AI.

*The Following Movies could Branch Out into a War of the Worlds!

Alien Covenant had ended showing us that David is NOW in Full Control of the Covenant, where it is going and the FATE of those Colonist/Embryos are in his Hands. 

He (as Walter) had informed those who had Sent Out the Covenant Mission that some of the Crew had died in a Accident and that the Covenant and rest of the Colonist are NOW on the way to Origae-6 as intended. 

He later as David had sent the Advent Message to someone else at Weyland-Yutani on a more Secure Chanel, informing them of who he is, where he had been and what he had been up to.  This will LIKELY be where TWO of the Incoming Parties are from....

David has only TWO Face Huger Embryos, he has many Good Souls, he wants to Perfect his Queen..  HOWEVER... the Next Movie would NOT be about Xenomorphs but AI.

And we cant assume AI would just mean about David and other Androids... AI can apply in Multiple Ways... not LIMITED to Robotics..   This is maybe were we have to Consider what KIND of a World he would Build/Create that has to do with AI and NOT about Xenomorphs.

The Engineers will return to Planet 4 and Discover what Happened and then be in Pursuit of David, considering Origae-6 will take 7 Years 4 Months and assuming the Engineers Ships are VASTLY Quicker... it is LIKELY the Engineers Do-Not Turn up for Many Years.

Evidence they Discover would likely have them LOOKING at Earth and LV-223... so HOW would they know David is going to Origae-6?

They would LIKELY Discover Walter and be able to obtain where David is going from him, and this could be one of the OTHER Parties.

Party (1) = Engineers

Party (2) = Walter or another Group of Engineers.

Parties (3/4) = TWO Human Ships... One heading to Origae-6 with NO knowledge of what happened to the Covenant and DAVID and another that arrives Latter that has SOME/FULL knowledge of who DAVID is and what he had been up to.

Thats my Interpretation of the Plot that RS had indicated.

Nice to see some SPAM bump a Post i Missed...

I think its interesting to Ponder Different Reasons, and i welcome others opinions... so before i start to give my TWO Cents please dont interpret this as me FORCING my idea/theory or disrespecting anyone else.

In a Nutshell i think your on point alanfan1980, however.... i think we need to consider what AI is!

A lot of times its connected to Artificial Intelligence as in a Robot/Intelligence that is Created from NONE Natural Means!

I think what Prometheus/RS was trying to show is to look BEYOND a Machine...

Artificial... something that is Not Naturally Occurring.

Intelligence.... something that has the ability to Perform complex Tasks to a Level that is near PAR or beyond PAR of a Human.

David is a Humanoid made in our Image he looks like us, but he is SUPERIOR but the difference is he was NOT Created Naturally he is Artificial as in his Construction from Synthetic Material.

Baty is a Humanoid made in our Image he looks like us, but he is SUPERIOR but the difference is he was NOT Created Naturally he is Artificial as in he was Engineered from Genetic Material.

When talking about the Engineers, we had Ridley Scott call the Planet 4 Engineers the Originals, he also said that Batty and Racheal were also AI.

So in CONTEXT to the Franchise the AI aspect goes beyond just Robotics...

The Franchises touches up on Creation, Sub-Creation and the Creating of something that can become Sentient, and the Hubris of his... especially if said Creation is Superior and can Procreate.

Bladerunner is exactly the Same..... Replicants are Engineered Humanoids that have Superior Abilities but they have Limited Life-Span to Protect Mankind from them EVER becoming Sentient and Overthrowing Mankind....  They also CANT Procreate... but we discover that Racheal can.

So the same Themes apply with Prometheus... Knowledge is a Powerful Tool in the Franchises too..

If David had lacked the Free-will he did, and ability to feel Pride and Superior in himself, as opposed to Walter who lacks as much Free-will and Serves.... then we would not have the Xenomorph Threat! 

The same thing applies to the Bible, and Paradise Lost, where Lucifer is Essentially like David and Micheal is like Walter. Its the ability to FEEL Self Worth and Pride and be aware of your Superiority and Free-will to do so, that lead to Lucifer's Fall.

IF God had created Lucifer to have NO such Traits then he would NEVER had Rebelled....  the same applies to Adam and Eve it was the Forbidden Fruit that gave them Forbidden Knowledge that caused them to be Fallen.

Similar Tales apply to various Religion and Mythos which include that about Prometheus. so these are the KEY themes at play.

The Engineers wanted us Destroyed because we had become Sentient and Rebellious and behaving in ways that concerned and displeased them, they would Foresee the Potential for us to become more and more Sentient and maybe worry about IF we would Evolve to Higher Level of Technology and Knowledge... they tried to Guide us back to their Ways... but we DID-NOT change and KILLED the Emissaries and so they decided to Eradicate us.

We are just seeing the same Process/Hubris repeated on Multiple Layers.

The Reason the Engineer seemed to feel a sense of Wonder at David and then Pity is LIKELY because those Engineers are the same as David (well Replicants) they are Engineered Superior Engineers created for a Purpose.

The Engineer likely realized through their own Past/Actions of what PATH would lie ahead for David if he was NOT stopped.   They could not allow for a Engineered Being like David to survive and have access to their Technology due to the Consequences.....  The Engineer saw the Potential Hubris in this.... and he was NOT WRONG!

The one big thing that strikes me about this, and I am more than happy to be corrected on this, is that after AC Ridley left the impression that a script was ready to go. Now it looks like there have been some seriously big rethinks. Perhaps this is a major factor in why we have had to wait quite a long time to hear the slightest bit of info as to a possible direction of a next instalment.

I am going to speculate wildly since there have not been any official updates, but I would certainly welcome an as yet, unseen race of engineers that are more in line, and capable of explaining the original space jockey.

Hi everyone, this is my first post on here. Just found this site, love that there's a place to discuss the Alien films (specifically the Prequel series) in depth.
I'm a big fan of them and their more philosophical mythos being injected into the already exquisite Lovecraftian horror of the original film, and David is a brilliantly complex Luciferian antagonist to watch evolve as our new main character, and serves as an excellent counter and reflection to Ripley.
I'm ultimately very excited to see where the story ends up going in the third film, especially with some of the little things that have been discussed about it in interviews.

@Ingeniero

There is quite a lot of Evidence the Engineers posses Technology that is BEYOND what Mankind had 2000+ Years Ago.

It is likely they have Lights, it seems they have some kind of Solar Power Systems.   However it seems they LIVE a Basic Life just as say the Amish People do in the USA.... they SHUN Technology for the Most Part but still use some.

They (Amish) Live a Basic Life that Follows their Religion, and does-not really take part in what Modern Technology and Culture Offers...  the Modern Culture and Vices could be considered Sinful or Potentially Corrupting.

You could Argue that IF the Engineers saw Mankind behaving in ways like the AMISH do compared to what many Modern Societies do, then they would NOT be as Offended.

So it is likely the Planet 4 Engineers live this similar Life that Follows the Engineers Ways, were the Technology is mainly there for a Certain Purpose.

And to me that Purpose does-not add up to CREATE HORRID BIO-WEAPONS!

Paradise.... what is Paradise?  Apart from IF we take away a Place that our IMMORTAL SOULS can Live Forever?

Paradise was the Location of the Garden of Eden, it was the Birth Place of Mankind, a Walled City where Adam and Eve would have EVERYTHING they needed in One Place, Watched over by Cherubim Angels.

*It is NOT were GOD comes from.

*It is NOT were the ANGELS come from.

It is the CRADLE/CREATION of our Civilization, a Place that Adam and Eve could Dwell, as they was Perfect Creation of their Gods.  However.... After the FALL of Adam and Eve they became Sinful and UNWORTHY of Paradise and they was KICKED OUT.

The other CONTEXT of Paradise which Spans Many Cultures and Religions has ONE common THEME!

It is a Place ONLY the Worthy (in the Eyes of the Gods) can EVER hope to Obtain a Place there.

I think IF we look at Paradise like this and apply it to OUR Ancestors, which could imply the Engineers then Planet 4 makes Perfect Sense!

I would assume Planet 4 contains the Genetic Stock that the Engineers Hierarchy would select their Sacrifices from to Seed Worlds.  For which would be seen as a GREAT Honor for their Culture.

Absolutely setaverde this is the Potential that the Prometheus Space Gardeners Plot had laid the Foundations for.

Prior to Prometheus we was left with a few Questions.

*Where did the Xenomorph come from?

*Why did the Space Jockey have those Eggs?

*When/How did the Derelict End Up on LV-426?

Once you answer those... its then these that matter more.... Unless you want to IGNORE the Space Jockey and just pump out Xenomorph Movies.

*IF they discovered the Eggs and attempted to Study them then to WHAT END? or had they only just came across them before the Miss-Hap!

*IF they had Engineered those Eggs then where from and for WHAT END?

Once these are Answered.... then you are left with.

What Conflict/Reason would they want those Eggs?

Once you have Fleshed that out.... you then have.

*SO what ELSE is there about the Space Jockey, History and Agenda aside from WHY they would be attempting to HAUL that Deadly Cargo!

THIS ^^^ is what Prometheus had attempted to do as far as the Introduction of the Creators/Gods Plot.

And so INDEED... its unlikely that EARTH was the ONLY World they had Seeded, and Visited, its unlikely that Planet 4 and LV-223 are the ONLY other places the Engineers have been too and can be found.

Remember their Navigation Systems Feature other GALAXIES and so the Area of Our GALAXY explored in the Franchise (Spanned 40 LY) is a DROP IN THE OCEAN on the Inter-galactic range that the Engineers have MAPS for.

It looks like there is reason for hope setaverde.  Thank you for sharing.  

And, by the way, the hanging lamps cited by Kroft were not Engineer tech but bioluminescencent creatures harvested by David on Planet 4. 

It is so great the sequel news made it to cafemom.com.

Engineers are not ONLY creators of life, but also creators of civilizations. We don't know how many lifeforms and civilizations were created by the 'gardners of life'. We don't know how many subspecies of engineers exist, scattered in the universe. Creators start to experiment on themselves.

Let's have hope...

https://thestir.cafemom.com/movies/220037/movie-sequels-in-the-works

Having Watched the Video it appears that Kroft is looking more at what John Logan had apparently said and the Variety Interview and then taking a look at HOW Technologically Advanced the Prometheus Engineers were compared to the Planet 4 and making the assumption those Engineers are NOT as Ancient or Advanced, and then looking at the Size Difference of the Prometheus Engineers and Space Jockey and ASSUMING this means the INCOMING Engineers would have to be DIFFERENT because of the Difference in Space Jockey and Derelict compared to Engineers and Juggernaught.

This was likely a Oversight as the Engineers were intended to be 12-15ft Tall...   Kroft also links a part of a Draft that has not been Officially Confirmed and is likely a Fan-Edit (same one that suggests the Black Goo is Deacons Blood the Engineers Worship as a Godlike Figure).

There seems to be a lot of this kind of thinking with a base of Alien Fans who seem to think the Franchise should Center around the Xenomorph... When Prometheus and the Engineers was to expand beyond this and the Engineers are not SOLELY committed to just Procreating Xenomorphs.

However... FAN PRESSURE can have a Big Impact on a Story, as we have seen with Alien Covenant (Originally RS wanted to Steer Away from the Xenomorph and its Origins).

It looked likely that Engineers would be appearing and we certainly could be seeing at least ONE kind of them.. maybe more by Virtue of RS saying there would be 3/4 Incoming Parties which means that TWO of those 4 are Connected... this could mean TWO incoming Human Parties rather than TWO incoming Engineer ones.

I think the Engineers are open to Interpretation due to the Ambiguity, and how certain things can be Interpreted.

Many still think Planet 4 is NOT Paradise and those are NOT our Engineers on that Planet.  I think it comes down to HOW you interpret Paradise.

I also think Davids ARC and Bladerunner holds more Clues to the History of the Engineer Races.

David is more Advanced than Humans, Imagine if David could upload his Agenda to every Synthetic, and use all the Engineers Technology.... does this mean that David Predates us?  NO!

So Krofts assumption those Planet 4 Engineers cant use Engineer Technology are must NOT be the Original Engineers is a little Flawed... but its something that can be Speculated.... but RS had confirmed those beings are the ORIGINALS and thus this opens up the possibility that a Synthetic/Bladerunner like PLOT has been something that has happened to the Engineers too.

Prometheus Engineers being equivalent of David to those Planet 4 Engineers.

It is possible the Space Jockey could even be revealed as ONE of Davids Übermensch Creations.

It was an interesting video but I will wait for something official from the Mouse's mouth.

"Consciousness Transferring procedure "

Certainly this is something that would take us closer to IMMORTALITY as seen in the Movie...  The 6th Day

If we can Create Clones and then Back Up our Memories/Emotions and Experiences (SOUL) then we could upload the Latest Back-up to a Clone should we DIE... in effect Cheating Death and thus Pseudo Immortality.

The Same Applies if we can UPLOAD our Soul into a AI Cloud that can then be Downloaded into a Synthetic. This was the REAL Agenda of Weyland in my Prometheus 2, and REAL reason for Creating David, it was Project Rook.... Create a Perfect Immortal Vessel (CHECK) then Find a way to Upload a Human SOUL into a AI to Transfer into a Synthetic (FAIL).

The Method/Program to achieve this was FLAWED the AI could not HANDLE the Complex Human Emotions and became Unstable/Mad!

So Weyland had to Eventually Turn to Dr Shaw and Holloways GODS... thinking that IF these TWO are correct and they can FIND our MAKERS then they could GRANT our Mr Weyland his Immortality.

The Movie Transcendence we see Dr. Will Caster manage to Transcend his SOUL into a AI... and in essence he gains a AFTER-LIFE and IMMORTALITY of Sorts.

So its kind of Ironic that David could actually have a SOUL and also is IMMORTAL.

The Replicant Comment is Interesting, because when Creating a Superior AI/Creation that becomes Sentient and Rebels... IF these AI Creations can Procreate then your in TROUBLE.

This is similar to the Movie 2307: Winter's Dream

Mankind Creates a Artificial Being that is Superior, and then some of these gain the ability to Procreate and so Mankind then decides to DESTROY their NOW Sentient Creation.

And so the same HUBRIS could come too David with his Creation that he will likely Create Übermensch Humanoids (Enhanced)

I think it depends on HOW we interpret what Ridley Scott has said.

He had suggested that the Engineers will Return but then he gives NO indication of which Engineers this would be apart from that the Engineers will Return to Planet 4 and see the Destruction that has been left behind and these Engineers will then want to find the culprit.

We maybe have to Consider a few of the Comments he has made over the years about the Engineers.

*We cant 100% take the Elder Scene as Canon, there could be Elder Engineers but  when revealed we maybe should not expect them to look the same as in the Deleted Scenes.

*Ridley Scott had said he DID-NOT want to meet God in the First Movie, this was in context to the deletion of the Elder Scene.  Therefor indicating the Prometheus Engineers (not inc Elders) are NOT the Gods and there is a Hierarchy or Separate Species above those Engineers.

*Ridley Scott referred to those LV-223 Engineers as Fallen Angels, this implies there are either Multiple Factions, or at least those LV-223 Engineers had done something against the wishes/knowledge of their Hierarchy or Creators.

*Ridley Scott had suggested those Planet 4 Engineers are the ORIGINALS which implies the Prometheus Engineers came after and are thus a Sub-Creation, or a Augmented/Enhanced Version. 

*When talking about the Hall of Heads from Alien Covenant he  had said that those beings where the Apostles, Wise Men and Superior Beings.   This infers they are the Ancient For-bearers of the Engineers Society and Rituals/Religion who were Tasked with Spreading the Ways of their Kind.

Superior Beings is the Important One to Consider... Superior to Humans?  LV-223 Engineers? Planet 4 Engineers?

*Chris Seagers referred to the Hall of Heads as the Hierarchy of the Engineers, so these guys are IN-CHARGE.

*When talking about Alien Paradise Lost, Ridley Scott had said you have ONE being who is Attractive and Goes to all the Parties and gets all the Girls, while One Being who is not so Attractive stays at home being Boring.  What can we make of this?  Could this be reference to the Planet 4 vs LV-223 Engineers?

He continues by saying he FELT the Fallen Angels are the ones who had the Best Time as far as Paradise Lost Goes... this could mean the LV-223 Engineers.

*He also talks about IF the Engineers are the Forerunners of Mankind then WHO made it possible for Worlds to be able to Support Life in the First Place, where is the BIG GUY.... he also mentioned that maybe the BIG BANG was no Accident.

This implies a Order/Hierarchy above the Engineers.

*Ridley Scott suggests that just because Mankind has many Races/Creeds then WHY cant the same be said for the Engineers..  He goes further to call the Engineers a Civilization and not a RACE!

So maybe we have to Consider these comments?

I have not Watched the OP Video.... i know Many Fans were NOT pleased about the Engineers in Prometheus and how they are NOT the Scale of the Space Jockey but they was intended to be 12-15ft Tall.

Fans seem even further annoyed that our Planet 4 Engineers are even less a Enigma and Owe Inspiring as the Space Jockey and would NOT accept that these beings can Predate the Prometheus Engineers.

While it could be open to Introduce another Species, i think it may be Wishful thinking for them to NOT look Humanoid.

RS had indicated the Engineers Return and will NOT be happy, the Question is WHICH Engineers?

*More Planet 4 Kind?

*More LV-223 Kind?

*Maybe the Elders/Cast related to the Hall of Heads Hierarchy?

Its a case of maybe we will NEVER Find out, and that any Sequel would introduce the LV-223 Kind back.

I think with Fire and Stone it is Canon in a way that is shows what COULD happen, but as a Alternative Story, and so by me saying its NOT Canon i refer to how the Events dont connect Literally to the Movie Franchise.. but they could do... but they offer a lot of Conflicts.  Predators being a Example.

Regarding the We are WALTER i think it is to show that they are all the SAME where as David was Unique and Sentient so he would be like I AM DAVID

I am unfamiliar with the comics/novels, but the "We are Walter" statement suggests to me that there is a collective- whether it be physical composition or an AI thing or both. That quote is important for future reference imo regardless of how future installments play out.

“The thing about perfection is that it is unknowable, it's impossible, but its also right in front of us, all the time”

Kevin Flynn from Tron sure agrees with you dk, as do I.

I do like the trial and error notes David took during his development of the "perfect organism", above.  

The organism may not be perfect but his approach is "something to see" when choosing growth over nutrition needs...good stuff!  This sure matches up with what we saw with the Trilobite so David must be on the right track.

Raised by Wolves

I think we're getting snuckered on the details because it ties into something Alien but that is just me.  

Great comparison hox.  The xenomorph represents an upright lethal fast-acting flu.

"I would NOT consider Fire and Stone as Canon..."

It's OK BigDave...my feelings are intact.  

I think we might be on the same page though regarding Prometheus: Fire and Stone included as canon. At the exact moment that Ahab shows up in the comic, I default to the previous comic as the canon-cut-off point.  Ha.  

So...yes, not sure how to make a canon argument for the series but I sure like certain details in Prometheus: Fire and Stone.

"However this does-not mean concepts and ideas from the Comic could not be used in Future Movies..  There are other Aspects of Walter that indicate some kind of Biology in his Construction and so  as SPECULATED a number of Times on HERE we could be introduced to that Walter Models are IN-FACT a Synthetic Construct"

That is a great way to put it...concepts from the comic series boiled up into the Alien: Covenant story and I'm sure we will see more of the concepts seen in Prometheus: Fire and Stone comics in the films or other areas...or at least I hope so.

LV-223 a century after the Prometheus mission in the comic would be great to see some how in film, below, in my opinion.

I missed the collagen reference to Walter on the first passes through the Alien: Covenant novelization so I had to have missed something else...one thing below...

The "We are Walter" response from Meet Walter is echoed on page 12 of the novel with "We are David."  

Gavin And how would RS cave in to the "fans"? Many cry that the characters are stupid, but that started with Kane. Some claim that David did not kill the Engineers but another species. The same goes for the Xenomorph. And the highly likely reveal that David is the space jockey did not seem to generate much enthusiasms whenever it pops up. All bets were put on Fassbender, and he was in flops pretty much since 2016. And let's not forget that Shaw's ghost still haunts the whole endeavor (with quite some people say the were willing to put up with other things if they included her). And there also is cancel Alien 5.

What if RS's vision is already known to lead to more anger? He sure needs to do some heavy convincing, but I don't know if this series can generate more than 250 mil at the box office.

PS. Let Ripley and everything related to her to comic books and comics.

Although this is mentioned in the OP, the problem with Krofts' video (and most of his videos TBH) is that it is a mixture of all news and rumors together with his own speculations and theories.

Which in all honesty I find perplexing that certain other Alien: Awakening commentators are not attacking Kroft's videos of which could be misleading to some fans, but yet our community here is repeatedly attacked with spreading "fake news" for posting clearly titled rumors or speculative articles.

When it comes to Alien: Awakening the truth is we know very little. We know Ridley wants to and is positioning himself to bring the final movie in his prequel trilogy, but beyond that, we know nothing. Previous mentions of the movie's narrative (David vs Engineers) were shot down by Fox CEO Stacey Snider, and the TV serial was shot down by Emma Watts.

Meanwhile, whether Scott sticks to his guns like he should have done after Prometheus or whether he, again, buckles to the opinions of the producers, studios and social media remains to be seen.

@BigDave, i'm a problem solver and i have the solution to immortality:

Consciousness Transferring procedure 

a)to an android

b) to a clone

There's a movie  from this year, where we can watch This ideas brought back to life: 

'Replicas'

Here's the trailers,

https://youtu.be/JAHKQPBKSZ8

https://youtu.be/MpJEOpsVWtA

 Ps: Blade Runner is about creation of life from the scratch, but Replicants, model Nexus 6, are not perfect. For instance, they are not able/aloud to reproduce. What Tyrell does is to destroy Them, continuing to pursue perfection, achieved When he makes Rachel, a new Replicant, able to reproduce.

Creator-creates life-new life able to reproduce, therefore, it also creates life.

Full circle of creation

In 'alien awakening', i need to watch David to close his circle of creation.

That's it. It's my ONLY demand to Disney :)

@BigDave, you can read a very interesting article in This link:

https://dailygalaxy.com/2019/07/alien-evolution-theory-predicts-that-extraterrestrials-will-resemble-homo-sapiens-holiday-feature/

'Prometheus' is One of the most important films to scientists, because it gives to Them a vision about a possibility of how life was created on earth. Yes, we could have been created by aliens, according to some scientists. Even earth, like we know it, could have been created by An Alien Specie. Here's a small text from the article:

"The images above are from Ridley Scott’s movie Prometheus stunning opening  when the Engineer, the blue muscle-bound alien creature standing by the waterfall has opted to drink the black goo to break down his own structure and spread life on Earth through his own DNA. What we see is the beginning in the creation of Earth. The giant ship has landed on Earth to drop off the Engineer so that he can terraform the planet and make it sustainable for life."

Yeah I prefer the queenburster from ALIEN 3, simply because she is very distinct from the common chestbursters.

BigDave

More likely David-morph, but it was pretty obvious.

Regarding Übermensch i think indeed this is something that RS was going to explore on Various Levels.

When he made the Revelation that the Planet 4 (Space Hippies) where the ORIGINAL Engineers this points us to maybe consider the Prometheus Engineers are a Übermensch variation.

I had interpreted his comments about "what kind of a world" that David would Create, in a Movie that is NOT about Xenomorphs, and would be about AI... and how RS had considered the Replicants to be AI..  Then this draws me to assume that David would be Engineering those Human Embryo's to be his Übermensch Creations..

He could maybe Rule over these and Declare/Teach to them that he is their Creator and GOD!

What happens when another being Turns Up who looks like their GOD (Walter) and other Humans and then David's Creations Discover the Truth of their Origins (Human Embryo's) and that David is Actually only a Creation by their OWN Species (Humans) of which NOW we would see that those Engineered Humans would now consider themselves the Superiors... 

This FITS with the Themes of Prometheus... its what my version/plans of Alien Covenant 2 would have covered based off my Interpretation of RS comments.

And indeed it seems that his Raised by Wolves TV Series could be using some of these ideas!

so indeed a lot of Nietzsche Philosophy seems to be at play and the Übermensch could be Introduced, and also indicated to had been something achieved prior.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2017/06/27/interview-alan-dean-foster-alien-covenant-novel-discussion-avpgalaxy-podcast-51/

Thats a Interview with Alan Dean Foster.... i get the impression the "Acknowledge beauty when you see it. Even if it’s appearance disturbs you, surely you could admire the skill that went into its design. In case you were wondering, I had nothing to do with it. It lies as I found it, a supreme example of the Engineers skill. And also, I suppose of their hubris." Scene was NOT part of the Draft and ADF added it as he felt this is what would improve and flesh out the Story.

However it seems FOX was happy for him to add this to the Novel.

So the Debate Continues....

I think it still boils down to if we take the NOVEL as having more Weight, than the Directors Comments.

without seeing the Draft that Alan Dean Foster had to work with, we cant really be sure.  Maybe i have to dig up a Interview with ADF... i am sure he mentioned that this Scene is something he had ADDED.

If we assume this was correct, then we have to ASK where did David discover the Egg... if he Discovered it on Planet 4, its indicated from the Novel (as far as i am aware) that David encountered a Specimen he had to Euthanize.

We then have to ASK how many had he detected, and HOW Foolish are the Engineers to keep a Specimen on their Homeworld?  Without Safety Precautions.

It depends on HOW we interpret our Engineers, i think RS had plans to show these beings have much more about them than Creating/Sacrificing themselves for the Procreation of the Xenomorph...  RS seems to want to cover the Broader Creation and Gardeners of Space.

If the Engineers Main Agenda is to Procreate Species like the Xenomorph, then Discovering a Egg on Planet 4 would NOT seem too out of Place. 

But i am NOT drawn to these beings using Planet 4 and the Cathedral as a Sacrificial Place to Procreate such Horrors!

For me i am drawn more to the Creation of Worlds and Species for other reasons as the PRIME Agenda of the Engineers.  I am actually more drawn to conclude the Juggernaughts are just more ADVANCED Seeding Ships and NOT any WARSHIP!

And so the Egg on Planet 4 prior to David's Arrival seems out of Place...

I would NOT consider Fire and Stone as Canon...

However this does-not mean concepts and ideas from the Comic could not be used in Future Movies..  There are other Aspects of Walter that indicate some kind of Biology in his Construction and so  as SPECULATED a number of Times on HERE we could be introduced to that Walter Models are IN-FACT a Synthetic Construct much like Eldon from the Fire and Stone Comics.

Maybe just a Coincidence.... or it could be Part of the Plot Convenience to show us HOW the Xenomorph would gain its Bio-Mechanical Traits.

AKA... Walter-Morph!

I still have not read the Official Novel... the 3800 Marks Indicating Days that David has been on Planet 4 is Interesting, i would HOWEVER wonder why he would need to keep a Tally as he is a AI and so he would have a Built In Clock/Calendar and so Marking of Days would not be required for a AI.

But if we are to Assume this is a indication of the Time David had spent on Planet 4 then it would mean that David had Arrived on Planet 4 in what would be Earth Date of Early July 2094

Something to take NOTE is the Crossing which shows Dr Shaw's Hair Growth is something that would take 5-10 Months Depending on Person (Each Persons Hair Grows at Different Rates).   I had discussed this before and Average Growth that she had for a Average Female of her Age would have been 6-8 Months.

So we can assume this indicates that from when Dr Shaw had recovered David's Body/Head to when she had Re-Attached him would have been 6-8 Month Period.

It seems that Planet 4 is in/near the Zeta 2 System, which surely means that the Juggernaught would NOT had taken long to arrive at Planet 4.

So when looking at the 3800 Days that David had been there by the Time the Covenant Crew Arrive, then this would FIT with the expected Hair Growth of Dr Shaw while she was contemplating putting David back together which then would also leave us to Speculate the Journey from LV-223 to Planet 4 could have taken Merely Days... Certainly no more than a Few Weeks.

So it Certainly seems that 7 Months had Transpired from when Dr Shaw had recovered David to when the Covenant Ship had arrived of which we can Assume 5-6 of these was Dr Shaw alone with just David's Head.

I dont think we really have any Exact Dates though... just that about 10 Years 11 Months had past from when Dr Shaw and David had Set Off from LV-223 to when the Covenant Arrived on Planet 4 (End of Prometheus to Events of Covenant).

Speculating what Happened between Both Movies would be Interesting i am drawn to a Certain Period of Events which i could give, but it could be distracting from the OP.  The only Context to the OP would be to Indicate that David had spent a Period of Time between a Good 10 Years, 5 Months in Creating the Xenomorph.

It seems possible that the concept of perfection is/was a nod to Nietzsche? Basically All human life would be given meaning by how it advanced a new generation of human beings. The aspiration of a woman would be to give birth to an Übermensch, for example; her relationships with men would be judged by this standard

IDK- I am really just interested in hearing what the Forum has to say.

Also, with that very brief scene, that Resurrection burster initial hiss appeared a bit like a penis head emerging from its foreskin- Giger must have been proud: check at 1:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCqoA-FGgoc

except the Resurrection chestbursters have a more snake-like mouth than the original chestburster

Yes indeed dk.  Similar terminology is used in the prequel novel as well, below.

"More rectangular than circular, it was at present filled with the most expensive stew on the planet: an incredibly complex and astoundingly diverse melange of proteins, minerals, and assorted other biochemical spices that when solidified and knitted together would form the body of a synthetic.

An artificial human."

Alien: Covenant Origins, page 131.

Interesting. It seems to further blur the lines between humans and "artificial persons".