New Replies (Page 223)

Another thing, why does Walter say "we are Walter" at the end of the Meet Walter viral?

After seeing how COVENANT ended, does it mean that David & Walter have always been assimilated? 

I actually noticed the other similarly clad person from my first viewing of PROMETHEUS & have often wondered if it was another synthetic. As he appeared to have little significance regarding the theatrical release I let it go.

Ridley did state in an interview from the set that there could be another synthetic on board. Since then I've wondered if perhaps the other person was originally intended to feature more prominently, but changes during filming caused that character's role to become virtually insignificant, or perhaps relegated to the cutting room floor?

We may never know!

Great to see Ridley's classic ad has been restored...or should I say retrofitted? :)

Hey NTFS! So I heard most of the music you posted, there was some really cool stuff there.

The Seven Worlds Theme (Link)

I think this track was great and beautiful, but I felt it was maybe too like… hopeful? For the “Alien” universe. By the way the visuals on that video are amazing and I see that commercial was directed by none other than Ridley Scott himself.

I tried to listen to the Marco Beltrami songs but all of them say "Video Unavailable", it looks like they were erased. I see by his IMDB he has scored A TON of movies, a lot of which I have watched and there are some really good ones like Scream, The Faculty, Blade 2, Hellboy, I Robot, Snowpiercer and A Quiet Place; I see he specializes in thrillers and horror. I really liked how “A Quiet Place” handled the music and sounds; the other ones it’s been a long time since I saw them so I really don’t remember their scores, but I remember having greatly enjoyed the movies as a whole.

James Hannigan - Anticipation

This was really really cool, this one sounded to me way more fitting to “Alien” than the Seven Worlds one.

James Hannigan - Dangerous Chase

Well the name of this one is really self-explanatory lol... It totally sounds like the music of an exciting chase sequence, I think this one also could work really well on an “Alien” movie.

Zack Hemsey - Vengeance

I really really liked this one too... It didn’t feel very "Alien"ish to me although I guess it might work like towards the end when the climax is already done and the end credits are about to roll out. I see that it was used in the movie "The Equalizer", I saw that movie but I didn’t remember the music; really powerful stuff.

Zack Hemsey - the way

This was really intense too. For some reason it reminded me of “Inception”, and funny enough somewhere in the comments of the YouTube video someone said he actually composed something for that movie.

Shpongle - Around The World In A Tea Daze

This one was nice but I felt it was way too much Zen like for an “Alien” movie… Out of all the ones you listed I think this is the one that feels less like "Alien" music to me, but it is a really beautiful tune nonetheless.

Some not so subtle nods from Resident Evil. To be honest I could do a whole thread on everything RE owes to Alien lol.

PS.... Thanks for the Bump! 

I failed to come back to this Topic, and as we know more about AC and i have had chance to look at it more, i will have to look at what i put on here... in case i already covered it.

But having seen the Movie More, i believe the Black Goo can be Programed somehow... 

What i see in the Bombardment is those Urns are Activated/Programed in a Certain Way were the Pathogen infects the Targets and Replicates and then it Attacks the Targets Molecular Structure where it turns the Organic Material into a Solid (Petrifaction).

The Neomorph Spores are likely the effects of a UN-Activated Urn that has Cracked Open or some other way it Spills the Black Goo into the Stream/Water that runs down the Mountain and Infects Mold/Fungi that has grown and so created a Pathogen Hybrid Spore.

Much like we saw the effects in Prometheus...

There are FLAWS to this though......

1) How come we dont see any Infected/Hybrid Organisms that Live in the Stream/River?

2) How come we dont see any Petrified Birds or other Native Organisms only Engineers?

3) The Bombardment did-not infect all LIFE as David managed to Experiment on some Life he discovered and so the EFFECTS maybe only had a Certain Radius and it was just the Hubris of the Engineers to Put all their Eggs in One Basket (Live in ONE City)

I could try and explain a way around these, but would still have a contradictions....  At the END of the day the Writers NEVER thought so deep about any Contradictions and its a case of Oversight.

The Explanation the Goo has having a Unique Reaction which can KILL outright or Create a Hybrid is a way to Pass Off any Questions about the Effects making it a McGuffin.

I am not sure what is Aliens Gateway Station? in regards to a site...

If it is a reference to AVPGalaxy then i do see the point, unfortunately at times there seem a bit of dislike between Communities, but it does-not seem to much this site geared towards them, i cant speak for the other way around as i dont really ever visit their site....

Nothing Against it... just i may be tempted to JUMP IN and give my TWO Cents to their Forum and well taking part on TWO Sites could Wear My Keyboard out LOL

I only really notice the rare times i have been on that site to have a look, that there is more like for say Aliens/Cameron than for the Prequels/Ridley Scott but thats not to say Everyone on AVP is Pro Cameron and Anti Ridley Scott..

I just see (and this may be a bit unfair as i dont visit often) that the % on here seems more in Favor of a Prometheus/Ridley Scott  than a Aliens/Cameron and Vice Versa on AVPGalaxy.

But both sites have Pro/Anti Cameron/Aliens, and both have Pro/Anti Ridley Scott/Prometheus and you also get Fans who like both Directors and Movies...

Everyone is always Entitled to their own Opinions and Likes/Dislikes  ;)

I am more a 66/33  In Favor of Ridley Scott/Prequels... but then i am someone who kind of Sits on the Fence so it seems... i am neither a Left/Right more a 66/33 Kinda Guy.  I.E i see the Pros/Cons unobjectionable (75% of the time) regarding sides of a Debate/Fence.

"I'm still impressed that David performed his genetic engineering on paper in a stone temple room"

He has the Black Goo which basically would do most of the HARD WORK for him, its if he can figure out how to Program it.

Or if we look at Prometheus alone... (consider Alien Engineers) then if he can get the Goo to behave like the Sacrificial Stuff then he could Cross-Hybrid Traits as he wishes.

Example...

Sacrificial Goo + Wolf = Wolf DNA Mutagen,  Infect Human and RESULT = Werewolf.

Assume Human/Wolf with 50/50 DNA

Sacrificial Goo + Cat = Cat DNA Mutagen,  Infect Human and RESULT = Thundercat.

Assume Human/Cat with 50/50 DNA

Then if we used the Sacrificial Goo on a Werewolf we would end up with (in this theory) a Mutagen that would pass 50% Human and 50% Wolf DNA onto a Host.

If this Infects a Thundercat then we would (in this theory) have a Hybrid thats 25% Cat DNA, 25% Wolf DNA and 50% Human DNA

However if this Werewolf Mutagen was used on a CAT then we would get 25% Wolf, 25% Human and 50% Cat DNA Hybrid.

Looking at it like that then IF our David could get the Goo to Act like the Sacrificial Goo when he pleases he could use it to Cross-Hybrid Over and Over...

For example If you took the Thundercat/Werewolf Hybrid (25% Cat, 25% Wolf and 50% Human) and then used the Sacrificial Goo on that and then this Thundercat/Werewolf Hybrid Mutagen was then to Infect a BIRD...

The Result would be a 50% Bird, 25% Human, 12.5% Cat and 12.5% Wolf Hybrid.

I believe this is kind of like what David did, in how he managed to Mix Traits of so Many Organisms to obtain his Xenomorph.

LOL why not!

Maybe by the time we get to the Sequel, she could also play a Character and by then Davids Hair has grown again and he has got even more CRAZY! ;)

"Weyland-Yutani wanting to tame a biomechanical killing machine that has shown repeatedly that it cannot be tamed."

Certainly seems more plausible, especially if the Company know quite a bit about LV-223 and how David had Engineered such a Creation.   We could maybe even Wonder if the Engineers had encounter a Ancient related Ancestor and had Re-Engineered their Bio-Mechanical Technology from it.

Another Avenue..... Regardless of IF David Created it or NOT!

If we was to be shown that David Evolved a Xenomorph (his or Ancient) so that it could be Controlled.... the Company would be interested to see HOW it was that David could Control them, and this would give them a Reason to Persue it...

Because if David had a way of doing so, then IF the company could discover HOW then the Xenomorph would be more Viable....  And Blomkamps Alien 5 seems to indicate as such (company finding ways to Control them)

Regarding the Naming then Indeed Gavin we would have been Expecting a Eugene or Edward but we got a Walter and so who knows if the Next Synthetic we see could be Gordon, we cant rule that out.

Regarding David the Back Ground is changed a Bit by Alien Covenant, and so the Time-Line of David Models from the Prometheus Viral Site are changed a little.

We have to then Consider one of TWO things...

1) How much had the other Models Changed/Advanced from 2-8? Because apart from the Hair its hard to tell even a Walter/David Apart!  So is David only David 1?

2) There are some Minor Advancements as things Improve between Models and Each Prototype has the Memories (Soul) of the Previous Model Prototype Transferred into the New Body.

I would be inclined to consider (2) and i think its likely IF we get a AC2 then we would see David Transfer his Soul into a Walter Model Body (if he is not revealed to already had done so).

I would not be draw to the Walter and David being created at the Same Time, its likely after the Yutani Merger they used the Same Room, but those beings seeing to Walter are Asian Ethnicity and i think thats a sure sign of a post Weyland-Yutani Merger.

I watched Prometheus Last Night...

I will come back to the Mystery Person shortly...

After this scene i watched the Briefing that Followed and in that Room were... Dr Shaw, Holloway, David, Miss Vickers, Fifield, Milburn, Chance, Ravel and Ford of the Main Cast.

With also the 4 Mercenaries (Wearing Black) and 2 Mechanics (Wearing a Green/Beige with Caps)

Missing were  Janek and the other TWO Mechanics

Mechanic 3 (Eugene O'Hare)

Mechanic 4 (Matthew Burgess)

Are the TWO that were Unaccounted for at the Briefing, the Guy on the Floor being seen to by our Mystery Person is Mechanic 3 (Eugene O'Hare) and so maybe he was being seen to by Mechanic 4 (Matthew Burgess).  Maybe this makes sense if these TWO Work Close together hence they was given Maintenance Duties during the Briefing.   You would need someone to be on the Bridge and also Crew who can Help with the Ship should any Problems occur while everyone else is in the Meeting and thats the Job of your Mechanics ;)

So the Mystery Person could be Matthew Burgess but he is only Listed as being in TWO Movies and there are NOT many Photos of him to Compare... 

In the Shot in Question the Mystery Person seems to have a Different Nose and Look Older, so maybe its NOT our Mechanic 4?

There are 3 other Members of the Crew who COULD fit the Bill...  which are Mercenaries 2,3 and 4 however IF it is one of those then they GOT up First, dressed similar to David and then prior to Breakfast they Got Changed into their Black Top Security Attire.

IF not then we really could WONDER who this other Person Was!

If the Flop Flops are a Give Away, then No Wonder our David was Upset that Dr Shaw would not Give Him any Loving... because she already Slept with Android Holloway LOL

This topic is getting so much hate on Aliens Gateway Station I'm temped to start a gofundme to get an Alien-Prometheus documentary made based on this guy's hard work just to piss them off. I mean, why the fuck can't people like, just accept the fact that there are Alien fans out there that are SUCH YUUUG FANS that they like BOTH AVPGalaxy AND SciFied? That they like BOTH Alien Covenant AND Prometheus? That they don't stand for divisive echo-chamber type bullshit and won't give in just because a frothing trash-heap of fucking morons are dogpiling them. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK MARINE!

I believe Geena Davis would breathe some fresh air into the franchise.  

This is, of course, under the director she has worked with before in Thelma and Louise.

I'll check out both the book and the movie.

Thank you for the share I Raptus.

"The technology of a biomechanical, programmable viral agent would be not only highly coveted and lucrative (we are essentially talking alchemy here), but would be worth billions, and would also be perfectly suited to developing biological weaponry."

That sure lines up with what is in the novels Gavin.  Weyland-Yutani reorganized once gaining the samples, below.  

Chapter 39 Communications

"To: L.Bannister@Weyland-Yutani.com
From: A.Rollins@Weyland-Yutani.com

Lorne,

It appears that the subject is substantially more aggressive than we had expected, or even hoped....

I believe we will be substantially closer to a fruitful merging of biotech and weapons manufacture...

The alien vessel and the buildings found at the dig site indicate similar-if not the same-patterns: organically grown synthetic life."

Year 2497, Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 260.

Great stuff. I'm still impressed that David performed his genetic engineering on paper in a stone temple room, below.

Agreed, madness is welcome.

Thank you for the link to the article setaverde and nice topic.

The quotes below from the article cite some DNA basics and how the development (enzyme acceptance) was different from other genetic engineering work.

"For billions of years, the history of life has been written with just four letters — A, T, C and G, the labels given to the DNA subunits contained in all organisms. That alphabet has just grown longer, researchers announce, with the creation of a living cell that has two 'foreign' DNA building blocks in its genome.

'We didn’t even think back then that we could move into an organism with this base pair,' says Denis Malyshev, a former graduate student in Romesberg’s lab who is first author of the new paper. Working with test-tube reactions, the scientists succeeded in getting their unnatural base pair to copy itself and be transcribed into RNA, which required the bases to be recognized by enzymes that had evolved to use A, T, C and G.

The first challenge to creating this alien life was to get cells to accept the foreign bases needed to maintain the molecule in DNA through repeated rounds of cell division, during which DNA is copied. The team engineered the bacterium Escherichia coli to express a gene from a diatom — a single-celled alga — encoding a protein that allowed the molecules to pass through the bacterium's membrane."

Thanks, Ingeniero.

Beautiful!

One more Alien film from Ridley Scott, please!

"Hovis has remastered its iconic "Boy on a Bike" commercial, directed by Sir Ridley Scott in the '70s, for a modern audience.

The spot was originally created by then-agency CDP in 1973, and was one of the breakthrough ads of Scott's career. It features a delivery boy pushing a basket of bread on a bike up Gold Hill in Shaftesbury, Dorset, then riding back down again to the bakery.

It has been digitally remastered in 4K by Ridley Scott Associates and the British Film Institute National Archive.

It's now set to a re-recording of Dvorak's "New World Symphony" by the Ashington Colliery Brass Brand, from a new generation of members of the original band who recorded it." (source)

I thought this was a wonderful way to view Ridley Scott's early work and looking back at Alien Day...I guess any big upcoming Alien film/series news would be washed out/cannibalized with the Avengers: Engame release on the same day.

Likely what BigDave said, but let us conspire...

In Prometheus, we were introduced to David, which we believed at the time to be a random name picked out of the proverbial hat that followed the unwritten naming convention for synthetics in the Alien franchise - Ash, Bishop, Call, David.

But with Alien: Covenants introduction of Walter it was revealed that the synthetics of the Alien prequels are named after the producers of the franchise Brandywine productions, who are David Giler, Walter Hill and the late Gordon Carroll. Which could mean that in the next movie Michael Fassbender may be playing a third synthetic called Gordon if rumors that development of the next movie is gathering momentum are true?

As for there being a second synthetic aboard the USCSS Prometheus...

It is my belief that David is the original David prototype, as seen in the opening to Alien: Covenant designed and developed by Peter Weyland himself, and that all subsequent Davids, such as the David 8 were mass-produced copies of the David prototype developed by Weylands company for the commercial market.

If the quotation in the OP is canon this would mean that the second synthetic was a David 8, with the prototype Davids name having been redacted to cover up the truth behind Project Prometheus and the fate of the USCSS Covenant.

However, it is also possible that this second synthetic could be a Walter. In the aforementioned opening scene of Alien: Covenant David is activated within a blindingly white room with a panoramic window looking out to a grand landscape of mountains and hills.

This very same room was also used in the Meet Walter viral video, suggesting that the Walter model of synthetic may have been developed at the same time as David. However, it would seem that the Walter model aboard the USCSS Covenant was an upgraded Walter model.

Going back to the naming conventions, it is also possible that that the other synthetic aboard the USCSS Prometheus may have been a Gordon model if David and Walter were manufactured at the same time.

"Lets hope Disney have the sameConfidence/Trust with Ridley Scott, and also think maybe Disney can come to a better agreement with the HR Giger Estate."

I forgot about Giger Estate.

But, yes, Disney have the money to, why not, buy the Giger Estate as well.

Ha Ha... i like a Good Conspiracy ;)

This is a EXCELLENT CATCH!

Who knows who this could be, it could be one of the Mercenaries or Mechanics.

Contenders are..

Matthew Burgess (Mechanic 3)
Florian Robin (Mechanic 2)
C.C Smiff (Mercenary 3)
Shane Steyn (Mercenary 4)

I am more drawn to Shane Steyn, but with the Flip Flops and how they are UP and READY and tending to others, then WHO KNOWS ;)

Certainly Cant beat a Conspiracy ;)

I can't imagine the implications in the making of a new alien film, now that gladiator 2 is happening. Perhaps Ridley Scott ONLY produces the new alien movie.

"Everybody, i ask you to forgive my Madness"

Madness is Welcome ;)

"What if the engineers had created androids before humans"   

AND

"That's why the engineer of Prometheus riped out the head of David, without hesitation"

Well that could be CLOSER to the Truth ;)

You see by Virtue of Ridley Scott suggesting our Planet 4 Plane Jane Engineers are the Originals..  and considering how when talking about AI he said Rachael and Batty were AI then things maybe are more clearer..

Replicants are AI Creation, just as Synthetics are, ONE is Organic, the other Synthetic.  Both ARTIFICIALLY Created and Intelligent and so the LV-223 Engineers could be basically the Replicants of Engineers Society, an so Created to Serve.

Before the Engineer TORE off Davids head, he Caressed his Head we saw PITY in the Engineers Eyes, if the Engineer was a Created/Engineer Servant then he could see in David a reflection of himself...

But if these Engineers become Rebellious to their Masters, then the Engineer would also Foresee the Potential for David to be the same and so he could see that David would be a Threat?

Maybe the Engineers had Renounced there ways, in relation to the Pursuit of Perfection/Engineering themselves or a Kind like this.  On ONE side it could be as with the Replicants (1).... to Serve... on the OTHER it could be like Human Elites Genetically Engineer (2) their Children to be Perfect, to have Designer Babies...  Eradicating all Flaws, making or attempting to Perfect Humans.

Imagine that...  giving Traits and Engineering Perfect Humans in terms of Superior Genetics, from Intelligence, to Physical to being Immune to a all Manner of Genetic Defects that affect LIFE-SPAN.

The Problem with this would be Eventually you risk Creating a Cast of Humans who see themselves as Superior and would want to RULE over their In-superior Brothers/Sisters and even to the Point Generations down the Line, that there is NO Need for Standard Plane Jane Humans.

So with those Engineers it could be either Scenario (1) or (2) from above ;)

The Engineers Renouncing their Ways..

This could be like if Earth and Mankind became Controlled by  Replicants, or Engineering Designer Babies leads to a Socieity of Elites who deem Mankind Worthless.

Then IF some Humans Destroyed these Freaks!  And Started Again...  they would maybe look back in Hubris and decide to NEVER play GOD and Genetically Engineer Enhanced Beings again. ;)

This is Gigerish. Disney loves the man but they just don't know it! 

That shows the Influence and Confidence they had at the Time with Ridley Scott, also he had Influenced some Changes, which was also to Persuade the use of HR Giger.

Lets hope Disney have the same Confidence/Trust with Ridley Scott, and also think maybe Disney can come to a better agreement with the HR Giger Estate.

"BTW, what even with general detail are we supposed to have guessed happened on LV-223 from the little we get from the holograms?"

I think it was a bit Ambiguous among other things in the Movie, so i would like to touch upon your Last Paragraph.

Certainly you would have to ASK for how long had they Experimented with what they was doing on LV-223 to then LOOSE Control... the Star Maps indicated they had pointed this place out 35000 Years ago, and so was this place used for the Same Purpose for all that TIME?

The Pathogen is some Pretty Destructive Stuff... surely they are AWARE of this, and have Precautions?  Hence its likely the Space Jockey Suits are NOT used so they Can Breath because well we see that Humans Can Breath in the Outpost and so can the Engineers (they even can Breath outside where Mankind would last 2 Minutes).

So its LIKELY the Suits are kind of like Hazmat Suits, they Protect themselves from the Pathogen, but also Protect the Environment to becoming Contaminated so they affect the Pathogen (i think the Human Crew with NO Helmets could have affected the Environment)

The Ampoule Room seemed to be Sterile, it also seemed to show those Urns had remained Unaffected, until the Humans with NO Helmets turned up.  Its like the Environment for some reason Prevented the GOO from being Active!

We see the Engineers attempting to RUN to this Room, even those Dead Body's we saw are all up against a DOOR to that Room.   The Engineer Head was Well Preserved, yet his Body was a Empty Shell (Empty Space Suit) its as if his Body was NO-MORE... broken down.. Gone! We could Ponder if this was similar to what we saw happen with the Sacrificial Engineer?

Dr Shaw made references to a Outbreak like she has seen before (Ebola) and Janek mentioned about having to Destroy a Complex on Earth because some Scientist had Split Something...  I think a lot of the Dialog was there to Provide Clues and sometimes is Overlooked as just their Assumptions.

But then we have the SOUND that Screech, and so this makes some thing they are Running from a Xenomorph/Deacon and we cant rule this out... its maybe a Combination of Infection and running away from something that Resulted from Infection... who knows...

Its just something thats kind of open to interpretation

If we go to the Earlier Draft, Alien Engineers then its more Inferred that there was some Infection that resulted in some Engineers being Chest Busted.  And some other Dead Engineers wounds from the Adult Beasts that came from such Chest Busting.

But i was more drawn to a Outbreak from Prometheus, however when looking at the Neomorph in Alien Covenant then something similar to that could have happened. (by that a Organism Gestated from a Nano Infection and NOT by any Face Hugger).

How did they LOOSE Control?  we have to ask if they had suffered Outbreaks Before, they certainly had Witnessed Creatures like the Xenomorph, Deacon and Neomorph and so they must have had a way to CONTAIN them.

This is one of the MILLION $$$$ Questions...

Maybe we cant rule out Sabotage?

@Michelle

Its nice to see your Labor of Love is coming to Fruition, I am sure they are Certainly a Interesting Read.  I think its interesting that there are people who can see the Potential that the Prequels had opened up, beyond a Franchise that just deals with the Usual Tropes we see from Aliens ==> Resurrection.

I apologize in Advance for what i will reply to you post between Yourself and WalterMorph.  But its just to take a Quick Look at a Interesting Element that would have been Dr Shaw and David and i am sorry if this may seem like a Repeat of something i have said before.

I think there is a Interesting Variation between the Characters, we have Dr Shaw who although a Scientist she is Religious as its what she was brought up on by her Parents and so her Faith is Important to her, she is on a Discovery to see if INDEED the Star Maps would lead her to Our Makers and Hopeful they are closer to her Faith, but what Revelations she had.  Yet she still kept her Faith.

She has NOTHING to loose and wants her Answers, and its a shame that we never saw what Impact those would have had on her.

David is a bit of a Different Kettle of Fish because Alien Covenant gives a slight different indication of his Character, from Prometheus we are drawn to him being a Servant but one that had been Assigned as Weylands Personal Assistant with maybe more Benefits (Freewill) that came with this, we see him look more like a Pinocchio Character, a Boy in Wonder at Life, but also Hurt and Disappointed by his Treatment by other Humans.

He knew he was Superior, but he still seemed to be Hurt by the Notion that he was seen as NOTHING but a Soulless Machine.  It appeared in part that he played the Role of trying to Please his Father but Ultimately knowing his Father is Selfish and Uncaring and that Once his Father is Gone, he can be Free.  He seemed intrigued by the Engineers and Discovering that Mankind's Creators appeared to have Little Care for their Creations too, and seeing the Engineers were MORTAL it must have given him a Great Sense of how Superior he Potentially could be.

So we saw Roots of Discontent for Mankind.... but this is where David and Dr Shaw could have had a interesting Relationship... David was brought up on Science and so does-not share the Faith Views of Dr Shaw, he may have seen Evidence to show that her Faith is a SHAM!

But then he saw the Strength this Faith gave to Dr Shaw and its a shame as she could have HELPED him find his SOUL.  And likewise he could have HELPED her when/if she discovers the Higher Up the Creation Ladder the Less Loving Creation really is. (maybe it would been interesting to Ponder if David and Dr Shaw could have been Better Creators of a New Eden).

With Alien Covenant, David was portrayed more like a Robot who upon Activation KNEW he was Superior and saw in disgust that he is expected to SERVE his Mortal Master and he had Resentment of this, while also some Pity for his Master.

Which was not bad... but i think if you Ignored/Never saw Prometheus and The Crossing then it paints a Limited Picture of David.

Anyway sorry for a Not so Quick Reply...

I just once again thing its Fantastic when people put a lot of Passion into Elements of the Prequels and Characters that are seen as a Distraction from ALIEN Franchise (Queens and Ripley) its nice to see others who see Deeper into what could have been (especially with Engineers and Dr Shaw/David), and Certainly i am sure your Work would make a Very Interesting Read.

What if the engineers had created androids before humans and these androids were the begining of the end of  the engineer's civilization?! The engineers had to destroy One by One, across the universe, and the last One was...the space jockey.

That's why the engineer of Prometheus riped out the head of David, without hesitation.

The engineer's androids were created to resemble with the One, the immortal and they have 12 ft tall like their "Christ".

My brain imploded right now.

Thanks @BigDave, for your enlightenment.

Maybe for the engineers, it's easy to locate the coordenates of their ships, because it's their technology.

It's plausible that the engineers didn't land on planet 4, because they didn't have detected any sign of life.

Everybody, i ask you to forgive my Madness.

@ Waltermorph

You may have noticed my observations further up this thread. There is a Ripley/Aliens audience which might feel there is unfinished business which the OP refers to regarding his parents I respect that even if it is a reunion greatest hits tour. But there is a slightly older audience and interesting enough all the feedback from people all over the world chimes with your views. What I found fascinating when I wrote a follow up to Prometheus is people immediately said could you do that for the movie because I didn't get that from the movie. So I did and what is interesting is all the points you made are handled by "Pandora's Urn" which covers the period of the 25th and 26th December 2093. 

There are in retrospect two errors in Prometheus which are Ridleys fault and probably the result of film making  pragmatism.

Lindelof removed the outbreak of Xenomorph's and put Weyland on board the Prometheus and changed the purpose of the mission. What Ridley did not request of him was make the creature connection clear and make the hubristic nature of the mission and in particular David/Sir Peter's relationship clear. As an aside if you have Sir Peter on board you have to do more with Meredith Vickers and you have to make more of his antagonistic knowing support.

This is not fan obsession about size, distance and all the other stuff that is recycled on forums like this it is about story and character. The stuff that makes people watch a movie, play or read a book.  

So when i wrote a treatment of the movie three things happened:-

1) The purpose of the mission and Davids feelings about Weyland were clear from the outset, what he felt when he was woken in Weyland's home is known to the reader.

2) The cause of the disaster is left clearly ambiguous rather than muddled ambiguous. The Janek/Vickers deleted scene and Ridleys "Seven Worlds" commercial provide the answer as of course does the fork in the road sequel but then it is in the movie just observational third person.      

3) The creature in Pandora's Urn is used as a plot device. Can you imagine a hapless victim with a psychopath looking on and the narration offering a hint of what the creature is. Well thats what you get. As an aside the lone craft and its cargo is a plot device in Regained, the sequel to Pandora's Urn and the importance of what we fondly know as the Space Jockey is HUGE. Ridley said in 2012 he was a brother of the Engineers on the Moon whose brother? 

So I agree with you the story could have been imaginative and yet make clear what Kane's child and the derelict meant and I know people would have found that satisfying but the real key is its important, but nothing as important as finding out who the real monster is and why.

That lack of clarity meant we were deflected from the real journey, the answers to Elizabeth Shaw's questions.

Ironically its art reflecting real life or is that the other way round. So if people want dripping water, dark corridors and someone called Ripley I am not surprised, that is all explained by the events of Regained. Remember what Elizabeth said as realisation of the essential truth began to dawn. "What if they are no better than us." What if creatures that pursued sub creation through hideous experiments on themselves using stolen technology to create their own hubristic vision are no better, indeed, but there is a chance of self awareness. "So long as they are no worse" and who said that? That gives the future a chance and after all David was aware of the great achievements of mankind the works of Michelangelo and Pietro della Francesca both of whom provided him with a sign post to his future. He knew were he might go ... given the chance.     

This is an update I've been waiting for. Thank you for sharing ignorantGuy and you're right...it did brighten me up. Great stuff.

Excellent!!!

Thank you so much hox and BigDave for the analysis.

Agreed...the movie isn't meant to be a sermon but the religious overtones are recognized throughout the film.

"Ridley Scott may be a Atheist but he does use Religious undertones in his Movies, the Hands Up is really just them Embracing their Sacrifice and so it does likely connect to the Cruciform Pose that people associate with Christ."

Excellent. It seems to me that Ridley Scott uses the undertones a la carte by choosing them to convey a concept rather than to evangelize.

"Indeed. Remember also that Holloway also made the same gesture as he gave up his life to Vickers' flame gun."

Great reference.  Dr. Holloway stated he wanted to refute all religion, see below.

Certainly....

Back in 2012 i had been drawn to a Theory about the Mural which in a Nutshell was the Engineers had been infected with something that Gave Birth to a Precursor to the Deacon they then either Sacrificed This Organism, or Experimented with it to Create a Hybrid and then Sacrificed it..   By Sacrifice they used the Sacrificial Goo to then make the Cocktail/Soup that would Genetically Evolve Life to take on Traits of the Organism in the MURAL.

A Theory that to me when considering the Bowl/Cup instead of the Crystal (from Trailer and has Originally planned) then my Theory made sense....  Months after we saw the Leak of Jon Spaights Alien Engineers which when we look at its Equivalent of the Goo, this appeared to be EXACTLY as i interpreted.

But then some Fans think the Mural is just to show the Engineers Worship this Organism and tried to Re-Create it and some even suggesting this was their GOD.

I think the Space Jockey has been something that Various Fans have different Opinions on, there are some who INDEED see the Space Jockey as a SKELETON of Sorts...  But the Concept for the Space Jockey was intended as a Suit or at least it was Bio-Mechanical like the Xenomorph... 

When i First Saw the Space Jockey it looked like a Skeleton, years latter i felt the same too, i had then seen the Concept in a Magazine by HR Giger and i was drawn to it being more a Exo-Skeleton, like the Xenomorph that connected to the Chair.   It was only since the Advent of DVD and Internet in most Homes, that it allowed me to Study and Conclude this was NO Skeleton.

I dont want to derail the Topic to the Space Jockey, but Concept Work by HR Giger did show Bald Humanoids in Similar Suits... So the intention was a Space Suit, and this is what Ridley Scott saw it as.  Closer Inspection of the Space Jockey reveals its not really a Skeleton, well not what a Skeleton should look like, if we look close.

But i certainly can Agree the Engineers may come across as Disappointing for the Space Jockey Race... there are a number of Flaws to make them fit with the Prometheus Guys... but these could be just OVERSIGHT.

*Slight Aesthetic Difference.

*Slight Different Proportions

*Size Difference (13ft* VS 8ft*)  * Aprox

But i think the Biggest Flaw comes from the Color... the Dead Engineer Suits maintained a Grey Color even though not as Glossy as New but after Thousands of Years they had NOT turned to a Bone-Like Shade.

I think also the Revelation of our Engineers and how they appeared in Alien Covenant has made some Fans feel they are just NOT really Alien Enough... that is compared to what Many would have maybe thought the Space Jockey would be.

Space Jockey Skeleton?  Nope.. you got think HOW would they look with Flesh Etc, considering the Bone Structure and it could look ODD.

Space Jockey Engineer?  Likely... but i think this would Disappoint and Fans not be happy at the differences being just a Oversight.

so i am up for the Revelation of another Species... one that would be about 12ft Tall then its a case of they are either a Race in a Space Suit (but make them Much Less Human) or they are a Totally Bio-Mechanical Being/Organism like the Xenomorph.

But its then HOW do you account for the Color and Degradation of the Space Jockey, surely ONLY a reveal that its been there for Many Thousands of Years..  like maybe Tens of Thousands or more would Fix This?

But we would Face the Same Problem with the Prequels anyway, as far as IF the Derelict/Space Jockey are NOT on LV-426 as of 18 years prior to ALIEN.  The Space Jockey looks like its been there for more than 18 years Unless its some kind of Skeleton you may think?

I think the Prequels have gone to a Place that is less ALIEN and less HR Giger Bio-Mechanical.... so i think we could do with going back to that Aesthetic and introduce another Layer to the Cake.

"if the Space Jockeys turned out to be a completely different ancient race, perhaps the precursors to the Engineers"

In a NUTSHELL.... i think this is the way to go ;)

But i think RS may have had a Different Curve-ball Precursor to the Engineers, one that may Upset Fans further.

Indeed. Remember also that Holloway also made the same gesture as he gave up his life to Vickers' flame gun.

Likewise the alien mural in the 'just another tomb' room also bore more than a passing resemblance to the crucifixion.

What I choose to believe is that the Space Jockey is not an Engineer - or David - or anything like that. In Alien, the fossilised dead pilot clearly had bones that were bent outwards. The pilot in Prometheus was nothing like this. Some fancy eco-suit that snapped into place.

Personally, I believe it would be much more fitting (and leading to endless other possibilities) if the Space Jockeys turned out to be a completely different ancient race, perhaps the precursors to the Engineers. The Engineers are clearly a religious lot, big on iconography. Maybe they dress up in funny suits as some kind of homage to the Space Jockey creatures...

In a recent interview for AVClub Tom Skerritt praises Ridley Scott for making Alien the "cinematic juncture" that it is:

"The A.V. Club: Your career was already decades-long by that point. What about Alien made you know that it was going to be the cinematic juncture that it is? 

TS: Ridley Scott. I was given the script, and I read it, and $2 million was the budget. They had no director or anything else, and I looked at it and I thought, “Well, it’s solid, but this budget…” I thought maybe it would do well, jokingly, but I couldn’t really wrap my head around this thing for $2 million. What I did like was that there was a woman—a strong woman that rises and does that with a lot of chutzpah.

I liked that idea. I’d done Turning Point, which was about all these difficulties that women had, how strong they are, and so that’s what I liked about it. But I thought, “Ah, I don’t know. I have to think about this.” But it happened that a few weeks before, I’d seen The Duelists, that Ridley had directed. I only remembered his name because I thought, “Whoever this guy is”—and I’m told it’s his first movie—“this is unusually competent filmmaking.” And a few weeks after, they called me up and said that Ridley Scott was going to direct it. So now it’s a $10 million budget and Ridley Scott’s going to do it. I said, “I’m in.”

Regarding this Link https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/first-life-with-alien-dna-created-in-lab/?redirect=1

This is Very Interesting, and the Engineers could have Created the Black Goo by similar, well in that its something they had Created as a Genetic Manipulation Tool..... or some other Species had Created this via similar means and the Engineers just STOLE it.

That Link is interesting because it does Raise some Potential Problems we could FACE if we play GOD, messing about with such Things could Potentially lead to the DOWNFALL of Mankind..

The other Potential to lead to that would be AI, Once a AI becomes Sentient and Rebels.... can you imagine such Experiments like that Link covers, and then these get into the HANDS of a Rogue AI Synthetic?

We have a David Scenario then..... and this is what the Prequels are showing us... the Engineers Hubris in Creating us and then Failing to Destroy us had lead to us Creating David who is then Free to use the Engineers Bio-logical Creation/Evolutionary Tool to Destroy the Engineers and then Weaponize it to Create a Horrific Organism.  That could then wipe out Mankind and the Engineers.

Oh the other Potential Downfall for Mankind.... Ourselves, our Ways, our Wars.....  which is likely why the Engineers abandoned us after the FAILED attempt to Destroy us...

They thought left to our own Devices, we would NEVER be able to Advance to reach the Stars and we would likely KILL ourselves off...  How Wrong was they!