Comments (Page 240)

Leto: I have heard about it at a podcast (Perfect organism podcast) but I have not read it. I try to keep an open mind to things like that so thanks.

Perfect.

Daliens:

Thanks for posting these pictures. I prefer the blue one with the long nose, the green one looks too much like some ghost that you could have in some cartoon.

Thoughts_Dreams

I am an Alien-movie guy not an alien-verse (things that are not movies) kind of person that likes to dig deep into things that are not about the movies.

However, I recommend you read the book "The Cold Forge". It's the masterpiece!

Setaverde:

A movie is fine if they have a good story and well-done characters.

“The alien movies are an epic horror gothic space saga. I ONLY want One thing from Ridley Scott in the Next movie, short dialogs, lots of horrible deaths, lots of gore, Battles between engineers, humans and Androids and New monsters created by engineers, David and the weyland yutani company-”

Doesn’t sound like one thing but more like a ten point list. ;)

There are interesting things that you bring up, some things I agree with and some not so much. You bring up dialogues as long as they are natural and reflect the characters that speak that dialogue then fine but they must be well done. Alien Covenant had better dialogue than Prometheus, it felt more natural which is at least something that it got kind of right. Deaths, you must connect with the characters otherwise we will be at Milburn and Fifield level petting a space snake again. Sure that death was somewhat yuck but the characters were goofballs. Gore, fine but it takes more than that even if they are good at making it seem real.

Humans going up against the Engineers seems like an interesting thing. I am less interested in the android part but if it is done well then maybe but the focus should not be on androids. The focus on that got boring after Alien Covenant even though it was interesting to see the differences between David and Walter, it was too much about them.

Engineers seem interesting, we have not seen that much what they are about this far. Prometheus started to build that up but they were swept under the rug in Alien Covenant. Hopefully they will show us more about that if we get a third movie something that I am on the fence about, it depends on what they focus on (no more David movies, thank you very much).

BD:

“i have concerns if the Franchise Expands by giving us this Xenomorph that Spreads itself across the Galaxy, and in return we just diminish the Engineers and what the Prequels had opened up.”

I am not so sure if that would need to be the case though. You have often compared the Xeno to WMD’s, what if that is like an WMD that gets out of control or like a bacteria that has been grown for a purpose that spreads and infects things. This could be fitting in way and also it is something that a foreign life-form (Engineers?) have made that is not created by something that the humans created (androids), I would be more accepting to that compared to David being the creator of the monster.

As far as the Engineers are concerned right now it is more about David so if that would tear down the David creating it thing and make it more alien again then I am for it. It could spread to some places that would also be better because I think that there might be other places that the Engineers have seeded with life where it didn’t get right so they have used warfare on that also. Who is to say that earth is the only place? Maybe they have succeeded to keep those other worlds in check?

Sure it could be the way that you are concerned about but it doesn’t have to be the case though.

“I think to downgrade the Engineers/Space Jockey and to Emphasis the Franchise on Queens and Eggs is going to be a bit limiting...”

Yeah and I also wish that they would have covered the Engineers more but I would prefer it being about the Engineers and how they are related to the Xenos than about David. What you need I think is a better connection between those two, something that Prometheus failed to do no matter who is to blame for it. If we get a movie that is more about the Engineers and how the Xenos/monsters are connected to them fine but no more robot movies though.

Chli:

“I think Gavin has a good point when he says that the Alien Universe would shrink and become less frightening and less open if the Engineers engineered the xenomorph.“ (20190417)

What if they make the Engineers scary as F and let the Xeno be something that they found and developed from there? If that was well done and we do not get the whole explanation of how the Xeno came to be like only showing us A and D in a chain of A-B-C-D then it could work to me at least because then there is some mystery left but that no one should touch that so there is something to debate because that is some of the fun of it. This could be a possibility but you need good writers. What if we are given clues maybe less vague than they were in Prometheus and leave a lot of it untold? This is something that I can accept, more so than the idea of David creating it. I don’t think that this would contradict your idea of universes with different creatures and so on, I actually think that your suggestion of many systems seems interesting.

As far as the expanded universe is concerned I can not comment since I don’t really care about that. I am an Alien-movie guy not an alien-verse (things that are not movies) kind of person that likes to dig deep into things that are not about the movies.

“I don’t see the xenomorphs as intelligent enough to have an abstract agenda, more like ants.”

Maybe their goal is to reproduce and survive, as simple as that? I have don’t see them as overly intelligent life-forms although with some intelligence but perhaps that is scary enough.

2 and 7 are horrible, the rest are alright.

Interesting post BD, thanks.

Hox:

Well wasn’t there some idea that the ship was grown? I think that idea is sort of bizarre but it seems to fit into the bio(logical)-mechanical thing. What if the pilot is an Engineer and the Engineers in some way have learned to use some way to produce things in a way that is bio-mechanical. This is a reply to your comment april 16 about how the Juggernauts are created.

Well he did a great job at directing it and to get Giger there, at least he was a part that got Giger into it but this is not to say that he alone is behind the success of Alien. Your (daliens) post makes it look like Scott was behind most but to me it is a team-work so I think that you over-estimate Scott’s contribution.

We also need to mention Giger, Cobb, and O’Bannon I think those have the most influence on it. They are some of those that made Alien great so I do not think that it is right to make it look like someone is more important than the other since it is about team-work.

I will second what Gavin said, he was a part that made Alien great but now he acts like it is all about him (to quote Gavin “with his series of prequel movies he has staked ownership on the entire franchise, ownership he cannot claim IMO.”) and while also coming up with really crappy ideas story-wise. Some things are having David responsible for the Xeno, favoring a mad robot before the engineers and the monster.

“Fox put the brakes on Scott's Alien: Awakening, with Stacey Snider shooting down Scott's plans to produce an AI-centric war of the worlds...”

If that is the case that Fox stopped it then it was a good choice. I would refuse to watch a movie about a mad robot, screw that.

The Engineers are interesting, I would rather watch a movie about that than a movie about Xenos and androids.

Gavin

As far as I can see, David sent the Advent message from USCSS Covenant after the disaster on Planet 4. I don't think they were able to contact anybody from there (marooned like Crusoe). That's why David sent the rogue Shaw-signal, hoping somebody that happened to pass by would intercept it.

Oh, yes, it is!

Dane just uploaded the final poster and it's a beauty:

I was fortunate enough to snag all of these except the very first one.

Under these circumstances they can tell us next that the derelict and the Space Jockey are not thousands of years old, but they look like that due to harsh environment from LV426.

I wonder now if this was the plan even from the time of Prometheus. Remember the discoid ship that brought the sacrificing Engineer and that was not seen afterwards? Could be a ship of an advanced civilization from Earth that was terraforming,  building better worlds, belonging to an ancient equivalent of Weyland-Yutani. Ridley Scott said is not necessarily the Earth that was seeded, it could be any planet. 

The Engineers are not Gods  The Engineers from planet 4 are the originals. The Engineers returned to Earth in our antiquity and tried to influence the ancient humans in the right direction. They pointed to the sky showing their new home, to LV223 said Prometheus, but planet 4 was not far away, so that could be accepted as a misunderstanding by our ancestors or as a defense strategy, if you come this far go to our military outpost so we can stop you - planet 4 is "camouflaged" and undetectable by future Earth scanners.  Ridley Scott wanted to tell another story using the Alien universe as a canvas.

"I always think about how often we attribute what has happened to either our invention or memory. A lot of ideas evolve from past histories, but when you look so far back, you wonder, Really? Is there really a connection there?” (Ridley Scott)

Answering to a question if Jesus Christ might have been "alien" Ridley Scott replied, explaining as well why they tried to wipe out the Earth:

"We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose. But if you look at it as an “our children are misbehaving down there” scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, “Lets’ send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it. Guess what? They crucified him. "

What do you think of this theory?

Are we alone in the universe?

Do not get me wrong, I am not a supporter of David being the creator of xenomorph. Until recently I believed that David only created his own variant of xenomorph by reverse engineering the Engineers xenomorph. So I accepted everything that backed up this theory. This was after Covenant, because after Prometheus I could not even imagine that David could play such a role.

It was only after I discovered the Giler script for Alien when I started to consider this possibility, because, as BigDave put it, "the Red Cylinder Draft is basically the ALIEN we got" save for the alien origin of the Pilot, derelict and the beast.

With the route taken by Covenant we kind of return to Giler script, where the beast is a bioweapon produced by the Company and the pilot is humanoid (still alien, though, but maybe it will be revealed that it belongs to an advanced ancient civilization that left the Earth millennia ago - I have a theory that the planet seeded at the beginning of Prometheus is planet 4, because of the sculptured heads on the mountains from planet 4).

So I don't try to argue or impose my theories, I just want to understand what is going on, so I share my thoughts here with you.

A talented editor, Terry was very outspoken and humble, a truly good egg; you will be sorely missed.

Our thoughts and prayers go out to Terry's family. Give Dan, Hans, Harry, and John our best.

David Giler's vision that the Alien was created by the company was rightfully shot down when they made the original Alien.

Giler's rewrites of Dan O'Bannon's script were done for one reason only, so that Giler could claim ownership of the script, the characters depicted therein and the production rights to Alien and subsequent movies using said characters, This he was successful in doing as Brandywine Productions (Giler, Hill and the late Carroll's production company) holds the production rights to Alien, and have lived off the profits ever since.

However, Giler's rewrites were superficial at best - he changed character names, eliminated the alien origins of the creature and added corporate conspiracy through the addition of Ash. The name changes were cosmetic, the change of the aliens' origins was reinstated back to Dan O'Bannon's original vision during production, and the inclusion of corporate conspiracy, although praised by modern audiences was a tired and overused trope of science fiction used through the '60's and '70's.

Having David be the creator of the Alien is, for me, against O'Bannon's vision and justifies Giler's mistreatment of O'Bannon, his undeserved ownership of the production rights, and his greed. Giler not only stole Alien from O'bannon but also drove David Fincher off the production of Alien 3 and forced Joss Whedon to rewrite his script for Alien: Resurrection to cater for Sigourney Weaver's needless return. Now it appears he is, through the return of Ridley Scott to the franchise, attempting once again to impose his generic and unimaginative recycling of bad science fiction tropes onto a franchise and property he did not create but has greedily profiteered from for the past 40 years.

I have two words in reply...

Fuck that!

Let's be honest here,

Each of us has our own beliefs as to whether or not David created the Xenomorph, and being the rabid fans we are can pull up multiple pieces of evidence to support our case. Yes, that is essentially the whole point of a debate, but in all honesty, we could do this forever; bouncing facts back and forth in support of or against Chli's opening post. The truth is there is no truth - the Alien franchise, is narratively and in terms of continuity a convoluted mess of mystery, inference, intent, contradiction, and ambiguity, that could with the next movie be taken in any direction; as Alien: Covenant proved.

I personally feel a bit way to debate this topic, rather than going round in circles with endless facts, would be to state our belief and the reason why we believe what we believe, not in terms of evidence but more in terms of what purpose it would serve the franchise.

For example, I prefer to believe that David did not create the Alien and that it was created by another party because to make David the creatures creator makes us the center of the universe in a franchise called "Alien".

For me, the alien has always carried with it three connotations...

#1 - One of the overwhelming dark, empty, remorseless nature of space.

#2 - One of the cycles of birth, death, rebirth, and creation.

#3 - And one of fear of the dark, the unknown and the unseen.

To me, David being the creator of the Alien negates the connotations #1 and #3, while taking the franchise away from Dan O'Bannon and H. R. Giger's vision.

dalien: To me, an easter egg is something almost hidden in the background which you might find if you look closely. It is therefore not important for the story. In Prometheus, the camera is focusing in on the altar and the mural and Holloway is studying it. The “xenomorph” creature is clearly meant to be seen (hinting at Alien) but the eggs and facehuggers would probably be hard to detect in the cinema.

This is a ceremonial room and on the altar, there was supposed to be a cup (like the one the sacrificial engineer at the beginning of Prometheus, drank from). The one drinking from the cup would either get some of the traits from the “god” on the wall (physical strength, long life perhaps) or turn into (mutate) into the “xenomorph”.

According to the quote by Messing the engineers created the xenomorph, long before David was even “born”, for the purpose of wiping out unwanted life on worlds they had seeded. The quotation at the end by Huante shows the sad aspect of production falling apart which is clearly seen in the ambiguity in Prometheus, even more confused in Alien: Covenant.

I agree with your thoughts, BigDave. I ponder about the fact that we see different variations of “the xenomorph”. It takes traits from its host and eventually wipes out competitors (which is the way evolution works) as in “The Thing”. The question is what the species (if it is a species) originally looked like? What is its real appearance? The X?

The same goes for if the engineers created it through the black goo. It appears in different shapes depending on the situation, host, and also probably how far the pathogen has been developed? It might have taken the engineers millions of years to develop?

The trilobite can also have been developed through an egg, namely Shaw’s, by the way. This would then also show the perpetuity of “the xenomorph” life cycle.

If David (or Walter) get chestburster this will be the greatest film ever.

[The Engineers are] a lot about sacrifice, so in my mind there was an Engineer [in the past] who sacrificed himself to this virus and it created this horrific creature. This being, that was gonna eradicate planets, was like a parasite that would destroy the planet and then [the Engineers] could start over and rebirth it. And they kind of worshipped it and you see this relief sculpture where it’s almost a religious sculpture.”

WOW! Cool.

R.I.P. Terry.

Thanks nin

Hope everyone had a happy Easter! 

Legend!

R.I.P Terry

I like the idea of lying back, closing my eyes and hearing the narrative while creating the images in my mind. 

Correct, BigDave.

If Giler and Hill still have the same % of influence on Alien prequels should we be so surprised that David created the xenomorph? That is exactly going to the back door of Giler and Hill's original idea for Alien.

This gives me some hope for a sequel to Alien Covenant. 

I will reply to some interesting things latter..

For now i will add i have read yesterday the Hill, Giler Alien Draft and i see a High % of this Story is WHAT we got in Alien, as far as how much % of that Draft is ALIEN.. the main differences being the Replacement of the Company Bio-Weapon, and Dead Human and Human Ship.

With HR Gigers Derelict and Space Jockey and Xenomorph Designs... apart from this, the Red Cylinder Draft is basically the ALIEN we got.

So its no wonder that Giler and Hill get a good credit for the Movies...  their Influence on the Draft that had most % used for the movie is there to be seen...    We still have to credit O'Bannon (original idea and Organism Life-Cycle)  and HR Giger (the awesome design we got in the Movie)  though.

Let's see what Steven Messing,  the creator of the mural, has to say about it:

“Another set that I worked on was known as the ‘Head Room.’ This was a ceremonial room that contained hundreds of ampules beneath a giant sculpture of an Engineer’s head. Julian Caldrow did an amazing job of working out all of the details for this environment and created the set drawings. The final set was built at full scale and was incredible to walk on. I also sculpted an altar area for this set that paid homage to Giger – it is a relief sculpture hanging from the wall and has the impression of an alien form with flowing structures surrounding it. There are a lot of easter eggs in this sculpture – including several hidden Giger motifs that were not used in the original film.”

[The Engineers are] a lot about sacrifice, so in my mind there was an Engineer [in the past] who sacrificed himself to this virus and it created this horrific creature. This being, that was gonna eradicate planets, was like a parasite that would destroy the planet and then [the Engineers] could start over and rebirth it. And they kind of worshipped it and you see this relief sculpture where it’s almost a religious sculpture.”

He was a little confused, the Engineer who sacrificed himself did not create any horrific creature. But it is good to note that the virus predates the horrific creature.

And the right conclusion from Carlos Huante, a free-for-all for the design:

"“There were too many hands in the pie after it left me. It was likely that everyone was trying to stick their hands in. Ridley was surrounded by everybody’s opinions and the rules he and I created together got drowned out so they get lost. There was no more connection between anything, everything got thrown out and it was a free-for-all for the design.”

in their mind it was ok to fill the room with easter eggs.

Well this seems the route they are taking (David) but i think you would be hard pushed to find a Fan who thinks this was the correct route...

Its about Damage Control right NOW... they either have to show Davids Xenomorph is his own Creation/Re-Creation and Evolve it, but also give clues to show that the LV-426 Eggs predated his experiments.

Conclusion: David Re-Creates his own Variant.

Or have the Engineers or those above them, take Davids Proto-Xenomorph and Evolve it to become those Eggs on LV-426...  

Conclusion: David is merely the Middle Man, the M of the A-Z Origins of the Eggs..

I will have to check it out... i have not read that Draft.

R.I.P Terry

I think it depends on what we call a XENOMORPH

If this only refers to either the Alien Xenomorph Eggs on the Derelict or Davids  Xenomorph Eggs in Alien Covenant then the Face Hugger of these Organisms IS-NOT in that Mural.

The Mural depicts a similar Life Cycle, the Mural is SO ambiguous you could make Anything out of the shapes, but the clearest things are the Xeno/Deacon in the Middle (which looks not quite Deacon but not quite Xenomorph either)  and those TWO Face Huggers which are NOT the Traditional Face Hugger, so we cant assume what kind of Organism they would Gestate inside a Host.

The Trilobite essentially has a similar Life Cycle, only that it had not arrived from a Egg.   The Mural simply shows the Engineers had experimented with Organisms that are similar to the Xenomorph... it was open a bit for debate regarding the Xenomorph predates these, or came after these.

The Engineers are similar to Mankind that i think we can safely assume that a Engineer and Human infected with the same Face Hugger would Yield similar if not near identical Xenomorphs, apart from Size Difference.

I think the Easter Eggs are a bad idea if this is all they are as they can mislead fans... i cant quite remember who, but there was TWO people who worked on the Mural and one claimed it was merely a Tribute to HR Giger, another said the Organism in the Middle was the Bishop/Deacon.

"I suppose you wouldn’t say that the Space Jockey also exploded from inside because he had been exposed to the pathogen"

It depends how they go with the Prequels.. the idea was that it was one of the Cargo (Xenomorph Eggs) but who knows how they will show and IF they will show us WHAT happened.

The Xenomorph was a Ancient Event/Organism, that was explained as Connected to LV-223, even though clues in Prometheus were very Vague....   The idea was that the Xenomorph certainly predates the Prometheus Mission.

Then they gave the Curve-Ball, and like it or not, this was NOW the intention, despite it being a Choice that Does-Not settle with most fans...  I think while you could counter argue that we cant use this and that to argue the Xenomorph was not shown to be Ancient, but  by the same Token you cant use other things to argue that the Xenomorph Existed prior.

FACT is that it did... (prior to Alien Covenant)  but this has been changed!

FACT is this was a dumb move that simply is not the right choice as far as what made ALIEN so ALIEN.

Things are Subject to Change... and UNTIL we see David's Xenomorphs taken onto a Engineer Ship and Ends up on LV-426, then we can still keep a open mind that maybe David does-not create the Xenomorph.

I would say a Majority of Fans would hope so... and i am among them ;)

"So, my hypothesis is that making David the creator of the xenomorph was invented after Prometheus, therefore making Prometheus ambiguous."

Absolutely... while its not impossible... i think as of even 2013 the idea that David would be revealed as the Creator of the Xenomorph would be what 99.99% No He Did-Not

Ridley Scott even in 2013 had explained the event was Thousands of years ago!  We dont know what Prometheus 2 would have shown...  a source i had in Feb 2015 claimed that David would Re-Create something similar, as in either Re-Create something like the Xenomorph or Deacon.  They also claimed a 2nd Monster that David does-not create would appear.  This seems to fit with Alien Covenant only the Monsters may have appeared a bit different, and they decided to have it that David does-not Create something similar, but actually Creates it (Xenomorph).

At the moment we could ignore Ridley Scott as maybe his Symphony is not well tuned either...  if we go by the Movie Alone... then there is NO 100% Proof to suggest David had Created the Proto-Xenomorph, or that had had Re-Created a Xenomorph.

Go by the Novel and then this indicates David had NOT Created the Xenomorph on LV-426.

Go by the Advent and its ambiguous and so 50/50

Go by Ridley Scott and its indicated David creates the Xenomorph that predates the Eggs on LV-426

Everyone is entitled to Conclude what they wish... UNTIL we get to see David's Eggs ending up on LV-426 and then shown the SOS Signal comes from that Ship that becomes the basis of Special Order 937....

Then we can doubt that David created it, and it could be changed to show that he DID-NOT create it..  Fingers Crossed.

No. The Anthology is enough.

David in my opinion is didn't create the xenomorph. He imitated, perhaps even attempted to perfect them.There was too much to much evidence in Prometheus to suggest a xenomorph outbreak on LV-223.

The DNA match between engineers and humans is enough to make a quite similar xenomorph creature (bipedal) as compared to a dog (Alien 3) which would make it running around on all fours.

It’s also interesting that everything that seems to point in another direction (xenomorph being old) is ruled out as easter eggs or props meant to be for an earlier script or something. Either we look only at the films and what they show and draw conclusions from that or we take everything into account: novels, interviews, earlier scripts etc. If we look at what is shown in Prometheus, we see the whole xenomorph life cycle depicted on a wall. That’s it! We also see a deacon - which is a xenomorph creature. In my opinion (and I agree with Gavin) David is delusional. He only makes a variation of what the engineers have created or discovered long ago.

Yes, we could interpret the pile of engineers as being exposed to the pathogen and “exploded” or we could interpret it by focusing on what Milburn says (and the reference to Dallas). The other holes could be made by a xenomorph creature or they could even be made through time as the bodies decompose, and perhaps moonquakes have made rocks fall down on them. I suppose you wouldn’t say that the Space Jockey also exploded from inside because he had been exposed to the pathogen?

The movies, director and scriptwriters have made it ambiguous partly because the David-hypothesis wasn’t born when Prometheus was made. It grew from David’s development into a rebel (Fassbender’s excellent performance probably also made it a good idea to centre around him). Therefore, there are hints and references in Prometheus (such as chest holes, acid, the xenomorph life cycle on the wall, the deacon, the scream, the running engineers etc.

So, my hypothesis is that making David the creator of the xenomorph was invented after Prometheus, therefore making Prometheus ambiguous.

@daliens

A lot of stuff comes from Set Props...

These are on the Internet but also Blu-Ray Extras.

Originally Alien Engineers had indicated the Engineers had Re-Engineered and Weaponized 8 Variants of the Xenomorph, but also Holloway had came across in a Cave a UN-Weaponized more Cephalopod looking Variant.

The Urns got knocked over by Fifield who was bitten by  a Nano-Scarab from within, and he Evolved into a Xeno-Hybrid with Acid Blood.

The First time we saw the Scarabs they was in the Sacrificial Bowl/Cup and Consumed a Engineer the Thousands of Scarabs then Flew off, they had Engineer DNA stored in them and ONE goes and BITES a Primate who Evolves into a Human....   Meaning the Primate becomes a Engineer Hybrid which is our Ancestors.

Therefor the Urns must contain Scarabs that have Consumed Xenomorph (or related) DNA that was passed onto Fifield and likely they used this Urns to Engineer the various forms of Xenomorph...   we CAN only assume they used the Sacrificial Scarabs on some Discovered Organism that Predated the Xenomorph to obtain its Traits to use for Technology and Bio-Weapons.

If we take this into context, then apply it to the Goo in Prometheus, then we look at the  Mural and Fresco, i think we maybe can conclude the Engineers encountered a Organism they used their Creation Tool on to Obtain DNA to then Enhance themselves and their Technology and then also to Create Bio-Weapons..

If the LV-223 Engineers are a Sub-Creation like Replicants and CANT procreate or they are Engineers who had Engineered themselves and LOST the ability to Procreate Naturally

Then coming across a Organism that Impregnates them to then Give Birth to a Life Form that is seen as Perfect or the  Potential would give Good Reason for the Experiments and Worship of the MURAL.

I think this is what was intended... but well they messed about and changed things over and over, that its a bit of a Shambles now.

Davids Experiments are in effect maybe similar to what the Engineers had done in the past.... David gives us a clue to how the Xenomorph could have been created, i feel this was the intention for Prometheus: Pandemonium if my source was correct.  But the Studio wanted a more Direct Prequel and have the Xenomorph back... so thats what we got with a slice of F-U with David Creates it, instead of Creates something similar that would give clues to HOW the Original was created.

The Theory i gave above MAY-NOT make sense to some... but if we look at the Franchise and ASK!

What Benefit would the Xenomorph have as far as for the Company?   Get Queen, collect Egg, drop Eggs off to Places we want to KILL people?

would the Xenomorph have Traits that could Evolve Mankind, if we all became Ripley 8's then we would be closer to Immortality that Weyland Wanted.

What about using some of its Aesthetics to improve Technology and Construction?

If we could HARNESS and Reproduce Spider Silk, and Spiders Exo-skeleton Body then what LIGHT-WEIGHT and Strong Materials these are compared to Plastics and Metals. Which have Pros and Cons..

That would be more useful than just use the Xenomorph for a Weapon... and so WHY not a similar reason for the Engineers experiments on some Organism they encountered?

"Sorry, but you say nonsense. "Fans want..." "Some fans..." "Maybe fans..."

This is WHY i say SOME! and not Most or  ALL

Some Fans like Alien and Alien 3, and dont like Camerons Queen and Bugs!  Some fans do, and prefer this.

Some Fans like Prometheus... but then some Fans find disappointments in the direction, and i dont mean just limited to Dumb Characters.  I think these recent discussions HIGHLIGHT this..

I think its hard to Please Everyone.....  not everyone is going to accept that 7ft Bald Humans are the Space Jockey, not everyone is going to accept David was the Instigator and Creator of the Xenomorph

I would ASSUME.... most Fans would feel that the Planet 4 Engineers and their City is steering the Space Jockey away from what made it so ALIEN in the First Movie...  I am sure that Most Fans would feel that having a Synthetic David Create the Xenomorph in a Process some 19-29 Years before the Events of Alien, as being Totally NOT what we expect when we look at ALIEN and also diminishes the Alien Origins of what we assumed the Xenomorph was.

So when i look at what some Fans like or dont, it does-not have to apply to Criticism of Prometheus, but debates on sites like this.  Some Fans have different interpretations and wishes for how Prometheus would connect to ALIEN, even though it did-not give much connection.

In Hindsight... i think had Prometheus had more clues (Fifield was more a Hybrid with Acid Blood) we spent more time on the Mural and Fresco and some passing comment to give us a Clue, such as Davids sometimes to create comment, and Dr Shaws Outbreak Comments.

Having the Hammerpede shown to have Small Eggs after one is SHOT... and then seeing Milburn Chest Burst or Back Burst or whatever a Organism like the Neomorph, maybe this gets killed, maybe it escapes and is encountered a bit after and killed.  

A closer look at the other Engineer Cryo-Pods...

Then these changes would have surely improved the Movie, but still Flaws in Characters would have remained.. if these had also been improved then Prometheus could have been much better... and ALLOWED the Door to Alien to be CLOSED, and allowed a Prometheus 2 to go some place FAR FAR away and NOT be about the Xenomorph.

And NOT have have to give us Alien Covenant... which must be a NIGHTMARE for most Fans they hope they can wake up from.

My Re-write of Prometheus was as i had discussed above, i also improved some of the Dumb Scenes.. but my Prometheus Edit would have been a 2hr 40 Min Movie! So no good for the Theater and we would have been back at Square ONE with Cuts/Edits.

But such a direction with some more Alien Monster Scenes, some more clues... would have allowed Prometheus 2 to open a different Tangent of a Franchise.

They could have then apleased some Fans who may have wanted more clues and similar Monsters.. at least long enough to then give them another ALIEN movie after Prometheus 2.

Which could have been another Prequel route, a mission to LV-223 which could have then been more ALIENY and Action Packed, and given more or definitive Answers to LV-426

I certainly agree that NOT every movie needs a Queen, some Fans may want them, but i am sure MOST Fans would expect a ALIEN movie to at least have something that is related to the Xenomorph.

So if Alien Covenant had NO Xenomorphs only Neomorphs i dont think most fans would be so upset, some would still want some ideas to the ORIGINS of the Xenomorph by Virtue of a Prequel should maybe cover and conclude this... but not everyone would be HELL bent on needed a Origin Spoon Fed.

A addition of David Evolving the Neomorph to something similar to the Xenomorph but different (more so than the Proto-Morph) or by Evolving the Neomorph to be a Hybrid that is more Neomorph than Xenomorph but have them come from Eggs, these could allow Fans to Ponder if SIMILAR was done in the past to Create the Eggs.

Likewise another Prequel where a Mission goes to LV-223 and either we have similar to Prometheus (infections) but we see more of a End Product... or they come across the Deacon and have it Infect Humans with something a bit different, rather than show Deacon laying Eggs.

Then have like Deacon like Monsters vs Humans... then i think this too would please Fans.... and not everyone would be like i wanna see Queens.. we dont need them in the traditional sense.

It remains that SOME Fans expected more clues to LV-426, and not Necessarily needing to see Traditional Xenomorphs or a Queen...   A Return to LV-223 could give something different but then provide more clues to LV-426 (if we ignore what Alien Covenant was doing with David).

PS!

I am Sorry if i use Bold to highlight some points and CAPS these are intended to Highlight things, as otherwise people would get LOST among my word after word and not pick out certain Important points.

Its not intended to come across as FORCING my views and opinions and i am Sorry if it comes across as such!

chli

Please look again, frame by frame at the pile of dead bodies, the holes in the suits are everywhere, BigDave also put a collage above to see similarities with the effect of the black goo on other Engineers (planet 4, sacrificial).

I saw the holes in the cryopods, but never once camera stops or zoom in on them, if I did not read about them, I would probably not have noticed. We don't see in the film the props of those 3 dead Engineers,  I don't know where BigDave saw them. So even if initialy this was some important detail, it was minimized during editing. 

What I say is probably the Engineers saw other variants of Deacon before, but they were created by accident, like in Prometheus, the first to do mass production of xenomorphs seems to be David.

The only alternative would be to see the other mounds, maybe there are more clues there. In the film I only saw urns and vials of black goo.

And if we look at David's lab,  at Advent and at David's drawings we see what he ment by: "  I have taken great pains to detail every step, every cell, every mutation, unfortunately none of the planet's life has been proven to be very fruitful. I had some interesting results, but was still far from perfection. With Shaw I realised there was something extraordinary in the substance reaction to the human genome. I was able to unlock new properties and tweak the organisms aggression. An instinct for survival. It took years. But I finally found my wolf."

I think when looking at the WHOLE layers of Creation, maybe we can apply the idea (well one) i had...

The Space Jockey are either a Bio-Mechanical Being, or a Humanoid (not so Human) in a Bio-Mechanical Suit... they had Created/Came Across the Engineers and they had given them a WORLD to live on, taught knowledge to a limited degree, but they would in this COVENANT have to provide some Sacrifices on their part (need to give life to the Wolf and Lamb).

The Engineers Rebelled against this....  then Mankind was created to replace them....  and a WAR happened... The Engineers Masters Disappeared (could left the Galaxy) the Engineers then took their Masters Technology and Re-Engineered it.

They then renounced this after a WAR, and then began to Subjugate Mankind before Mankind started to Rebel, so the Engineers Returned to Creating a Bio-Weapon that Genetically similar to what their Masters used the Engineers for... the Engineers Re-Create this to use on Mankind.

I had about 5-6 variants of this idea, each a little different in various aspects.

For example Space Jockey could even be a Humanoid created/discovered for the same Task... what this does is take the idea i had posted just, and bring the Space Jockey as another Layer rather than Masters..

Space Jockey Race Enslaved, Rebel, Create Engineers, etc and we see Engineers Repeat this with Mankind, and Mankind Repeat this with David etc etc.

This leaves a VERY Ancient and ALIEN element thats been LONG gone, as the TOP of the Chain.... we could then bring these beings (Starbeasts) back!