Comments (Page 292)

The Covenant crew were likely unaware of the Prometheus follow up investigation. Like any major conspiracy / secret mission, the company would have covered it up but behind the scenes, sent a recon party to investigate.

The Prometheus mission was probably dismissed as "vanished" and people within the company didn't think twice. It's unlikely the "public" would have had any knowledge of the mission either.

@ Big Dave

“Did the Star Map mean Planet 4 and Holloway and Dr Shaw Miss-Read it”.

Apologies if I have missed any previous comments from you on this, but I consider this to be a topic woethy of its own discussion. I think the implications could be huge. I know this is going a little off topic, but one theory I have is that Planet 4 could be a sort of prison/slave planet, and that the engineer s do have factions. My theory goes along the lines that perhaps some escaped from Planet 4 and travelled to Earth. The cave drawing were just to indicate were they were from and not an invitation. Also, if they did come to Earth and were found out, did that attract the attention of a controlling Engineer faction to seek out and destroy at any cost, that being wipe out all life on Earth.

This is just a theory of mine , but I think there is certainly a wider discussion to be had on the misinterpretation of the cave paintings.

@ Ingeniero

Was CASE FILE ADVENT sent from the surface of Planet 4 ?

My next question would have to be who to?

I say this because there was no follow up team sent to LV223.

We are told in AC that The Prometheus vanished, yet we know Shaw sent a signal back to Earth, so why was this not followed up?

Lucifer, The Light Bearer

"Knowledge and Freewill play Key Roles, for the Bible it shows us that the Fall of Lucifer was because he was created Perfect and had been given more Free-will and Knowledge and he is just like David, where as other Angels were more like Walter"

I think you nailed that component BigDave.

I believe the David character was modeled after Lucifer in many ways. He is a liar when considering his fake plastic mouth. David is also an attempt at perfection by a mortal, Peter Weyland. So, every synthetic cell showcased as perfect is a lie. Then add in the synthetic psychopathic butcher aspects David displayed and I believe I make a point.

Pandemonium

In support of this point, I believe that Planet 4 was a great representation of Pandemonium from Paradise Lost. 

When was CASE FILE ADVENT sent?

The pattern is rather easy to see in regards to an aqua-colored border for Covenant ship screens and amber-colored for everything else. David sent the message from the Covenant ship.

Was CASE FILE ADVENT somehow recorded before David left the surface of Planet 4 or after landing the Covenant on it?

Colored screen borders equal proof? No but Planet 4 was mentioned by Walter and Captain Oram both as a landing site, below.

I love the warm response to Walter and the cold response to Captain Oram. One area that may give us clues is Broken by Rachel Caine, the 2017 short story on the artificial person Bishop's first moments of awareness and how he is different from the others of his kind.

Rook, another model like Bishop continues to try and "sync link" Bishop and he declines it, below.

"The sensation he was feeling was a sync link trying to connect. They were programmed that way, to share data across models. He rejected the sync and said, in a calm tone that was somehow entirely different from his brother's, "Not like you, Rook."

Aliens: Bug Hunt - Broken, page 57.

I believe above that Ridley Scott was telling us that there was no sync link in between David and Walter because David didn't seem to "know" of the cabin Daniels asked about in the hyper sleep chamber.

So, David could have linked with Mother, downloaded all that he saw and learned during his studies on Planet 4, and then sent the CASE FILE ADVENT message in space. The one thing that stood out was that it appears to be a live transmission when walking through his lab.

Walter was able to "sync" with Mother once arriving on the Covenant ship, below.

"I have already established the necessary connections with the Covenant's AI....we mesh well. It speaks highly of our future cooperation."

Alien: Covenant Origins, page 341.

David was able to connect in the same way with Mother at the end of Alien: Covenant so I can assume that he and Walter were able to sync but did not much like Bishop and Rook. And Daniels figured it out just a little too late.

BigDave

"1) A Egg or Eggs Start to Grow from it."

Wow! That's a really great idea, like eggmorphing. This ability make Xenomorph more "alien" and strange. And dangerous, of course. Imagine if Colonial Marines kill xenomorphs and leave this place for undefined period. And then next expedition, who think what place was cleansed found eggs growing from the remains of xenomorphs.

Happy Birthday Sir Ridley Scott ;)

I am going to assume David made this Transmission on the Covenant we just dont know WHEN...  (well i cant find any specific date).

1) It either implies that David has sent the Transmission Not-Long after he leaves Planet 4 which indicates that Planet 4 is near the Zeta 2 Reticuli Constellation.

This means Planet 4 is near LV-426/223 certainly surely within 5-10 Light Years but just because a object is seen near another in a Constellation they could be Many Many or even Hundreds of Light Years apart and a Object that appears to be further away from one object when viewing a Constellation may actually be closer to it in terms of Light Years than the object closest by via looking at it in the Constellation.  But i assume this is NO Coincidence so its intended to show the Signal Came from NEAR LV-224/426.

Which could make us Ponder Did the Star Map mean Planet 4 and Holloway and Dr Shaw Miss-Read it, well they turn up to the Nearest System that Matched and LV-223 was the only Planet that could likely Sustain some kind of Life that was detected (Means Planet 4 was the Star Map but had some kind of Technology so it could not be detected).  This is now open for debate...

2) The Signal is sent while David and the Covenant are passing BY the LV-223/426 System.  Which could imply that David is heading towards those Worlds... maybe even if only to TOP-UP on some Black Goo.

When looking at the Distance in Journey Time to Origae-6 and remaining Recharge Cycles, then it would appear the Covenant had only Traveled about 9-10 Months (take into account Year the Origins Novel was placed).  before it encountered the Neutrino Burst making it more likely that Planet 4 is Located around the RA 3hrs 17 Min 8.0 Seconds, DEC -62 37' 41.1" area of Space Viewed from Earth and so just South East to the Zeta 2 Reticuli System

Thank you Chris. 

Thank you dk. Yes....a little.

Here are a few more technology pics:

Cargo Lift

Covenant Sails

Weyland Installation on Mars (Steve Burg Prometheus Concept Art)

Well this is ONE of the Intriguing Mysteries with ALIEN and Ultimately i feel it was a PLOT DEVICE  for how Kane could descend into the Egg Chamber,  as they Originally intended to have the Egg Chamber as Separate, but Budget and Time Restraints would mean it was merged with the Derelict as a Cargo Hold.   So they then needed to introduce a Plot Device for HOW they can get to the Cargo Hold.

In doing the Acid Burn Hole it raises some Questions...

1) Did the Chest Buster make that Acid Hole somehow?

This is ONE HELL of a lot of Acid for a Chest Buster or even maybe a Adult to be able to Produce without being Killed?

But WHY would it want to get back to the Cargo Hold it came from?  This explanation would open up a interpretation that the Chest Buster Ending up LAYING those EGGS.

2) Did the Chest Buster get killed and this resulted in the Acid Hole?

But then who/what killed the ALIEN, and what happened to the WHOEVER killed the Chest Buster?

We can rule out another 3rd Common Interpretation which was something climbed up the Cargo Hold and made that Hole to get to the Space Jockey... HOW does a Face Hugger do this, and the Acid Hole looks more like it was made from Top to Bottom.

I think the most Sensible Answer we can look at the Clues Ridley Scott had given us over the Prequels.

*Regardless of Prometheus or Alien Covenant we had RS push us towards seeing the Xenomorph as a Engineered Bio-Weapon.   If this is the Case (which it was intended) then while it may be a Good Weapon to use, its a bit OVERKILL apart from the USE to Destroy a World/Enemy with NO intentions of making use of the World/Ship that the Outbreak Occurs on.

*However (this applies mainly to Prior to Alien Covenant) he had said the Engineers Develop this Weapon to Not Only Eradicate Threats but to CLEAN-UP Worlds... which implies so they can make use of the World Afterwards... this would imply the Bio-Weapon has a Half-Life and eventually a World would be CLEAN and Free of the Bio-Weapon.  A Question is would this apply to the Xenomorph? It was indicated in Alien Engineers, and RS comments he did mention the Derelict Event was related to LV-223 and so we ask Do the Xenomorphs have a Limited Life Span?

Taking those TWO into account and looking into RS comments on the Xenomorph that got killed in Alien Covenant, he had CLAIMED the Xenomorph would have eventually REGENERATED.   Thats a Bold Claim, so how does this WORK? 

The Xenomorph Crushed to a Pulp and Parts will Regenerate in what Hours, Days and what does it become ONE Xenomorph or does each Part become a NEW Xenomorph, so say 50% is a Pile of Goop.... then we have a Tail, Two Legs and a Arm that Separated....  do we then get 4-5 Xenomorphs?

Myself i am not a 100% Fan of this....

HOWEVER.... by Regenerate could he mean the Organism Does-Not Die.... but it can LIVE on in some other Capacity, i made a Cabbage Patch Post before, as they look like how the Eggs are laid out in ALIEN

Cabbage Material when it Dies, it then Regrows into a Clone of itself.... you could cut a Cabbage up into say 6 parts and provided it lands on Suitable Soil Etc, then 6 Clone Cabbages will Grow in its Place.

CONSIDERING all the above....

If the Xenomorph has a Certain Life Expectancy then this is ideal for a Bio-Weapon, If when a Xenomorph Dies, be it KILLED or after its Life Expectancy we see it begin to Break Down (Result in Acid) and then from this Process we either get.

1) A Egg or Eggs Start to Grow from it.

2) Breaks Down into a Mutagen like the Black Goo, that can infect Organic Matter to become a NEW Incubator for its Life-Cycle (Egg or Spore) Stage.

I feel this would be a Good Trait for a Intended Bio-Weapon, it also fits with Ridley Scott saying the Weapon was used to CLEAN UP Worlds and the Organism would have Regenerated.

A Xenomorph with a Limited Life Expectancy, that then Dies, Decomposes and the Result Burns Through the Floor of the Derelict... i feel would be a GOOD explanation for that HOLE.

I am sure a Few HOLES (Pun Intended) could even be found in this Explanation...  For Starters, Dallas, Kane and Lambert Found a way into the Pilot Room.... so surely the Chest Buster could have escaped from this Room.

Certainly DK...

How many in Hindsight wish the prequels was not going to go that route...  The PROBLEM we have is they surely (if they consider another Movie) they cant just avoid the ENDING of Alien Covenant and ignore what happens to David, the Covenant, Planet 4.

The Question is HOW do we leave the Space Jockey a Mystery?

Do we consider that maybe Davids Creations END UP on the Derelict in there Thousands but we never get shown, WHEN/HOW/WHY and Ultimately we wont know WHO the Space Jockey was?

The other side of the coin is it would maybe allow Fans to just assume and regard that Davids Xenomorphs just  DO-NOT get on the Derelict and THUS the Space Jockey Event and Xenomorph are Ancient.

I think maybe we need some more Clarification, well we need to FIND-OUT what becomes of David and the Covenant and his Xenomorphs, even if this is a Movie were we arrive at a Aftermath to what happens when David ends up where ever he is going and in effect David becomes like Dr Shaw was... as in the Movie could have him as a Corpse, but Activate his head to get some Information.   Then have us see his Xenomorphs in ACTION.

Then we either see the Movie End where we DONT see his Xenomorphs end up on a Engineer Ship, where we DO see them on a Engineer Ship that leaves (But dont show where and what happens next) or where the Engineers Turn up with their own Xenomorphs.

As it stands now i feel here are they Main Things that Bug Fans regarding the Prequel Route...

1) David as the Creator of the Xenomorph, (Even if someone else Evolves his Creations) thus the Event is NOT Ancient and NOT Alien of Origin.

2) The Size of the Space Jockey, were 8ft Engineers just dont seem to fit the Bill, never mind any one Smaller.

3) If the Engineers are the Space Jockey... regardless of size, i feel a lot of Fans want something more ALIEN, but i think most can accept that we are not seeing a Skeleton of a Alien Race..

I think Fans May have to Accept that the Derelict/Space Jockey event is NOT Ancient, and that the Pilot is NOT some Skeletal remains of some Alien Organism.

But the Rest Can be FIXED...  (i.e 10ft Not So Human looking Race Above the Engineers take Davids Xenomorph and Evolve it... to their HUBRIS and end up as the Space Jockey).

In Hindsight though.... the Direction taken by AC should have not been taken.

Happy birthday Ridley Scott!

There wasn't any Drones in Aliens or Alien 2. So this confused me a lot.

Nice work! Nice to see you have been busy!

Nicely done!

I think the Space Jockey should remain a mystery- an unanswered question for us to argue about :)

There seems to be an element of "the chicken and the egg" here. All I can say is that evidently, the SJ must have been infected pre flight given the broken ribs and acidic hole burnt into the ship's surface..

"You ask where the Engineers got their technology from, maybe they stole it from those that created them? One alternative is that they were handed it and misused it like the humans run pout of control."

I have pondered such a thing a number of times, Certainly that could FIT with our Engineers, as in either Stole the Technology/Black Goo, or they were allowed to use it as instructed by their Hierarchy/Creators but they chose to use it as NOT intended.

"I agree but that is not why I watch the alien movies. It could work but then we need more focus on the humans and the monsters. Right now it does not work so the movies suffer from that."

Well i can fully agree with this and other things you had said in your post Thoughts_Dreams

Myself i find the Plot Interesting, but it indeed seems to loop back more to Mankind/David where the Engineers should be the bigger Focus,  the Themes and Ideas RS has are interesting but as you have RIGHTFULLY stated!

YOU dont watch a ALIEN Movie for this... and i have to assume a Larger % will side with the same kind of outlook, and what i mean is HOWEVER interesting some things are, they are not quite so Fitting to ALIEN, they seem to be getting sidetracked to what MOST would see about ALIEN and how a Prequel should be which would be about the Xenomorph a little.... but mainly about that Technology that belonged to the Space Jockey and his Race. And then look into WHY they do what they do and against WHO.

And to be honest, the Themes at Play are things that have been done before....   Especially when we look at Battlestar Galactica be it the Original 70's/80s or the Re-Imagination Series... the Original has those Prometheus Themes (Reptilian Alien Race, Create Robots who Rebel) were you can replace Reptilian Cylons with Engineers or Humans, and Replace the Centurion Warriors with Humans or David. 

The Newer Series, we see a combination of similar things to what Bladerunner was about, and also Prometheus, and indeed similar to what some of the things in this Topic Discus...  Upload Human Soul into a AI, and then AI Rebelling and AI then Creating Organic AI.

So these things have been done before.....

While they could be interesting in context to the Franchise, i feel for MOST it appears to be a Distraction and Sidetrack from what SHOULD be covered more and more so.. WHAT would get more Fans to be interested.

"I think that it could be interesting to see the SJ life-form. Since they have damaged the image of the Xeno in the prequels then I think that they must make up for that by making the SJ life-form great and mysterious"

I discussed in another Topic the Scale of the Space Jockey and Proportions, i estimate it to have been about 13ft in ALIEN

They intention was to have the Engineers as 12-15ft, then that got Revised down to 10ft but in Prometheus we can clear see they are not that LARGE, introducing another Race that Matches the Space Jockey Proportions and is say 10ft Tall or maybe 12ft would be maybe the best way to go. 

The Space Jockey should still remain a Space Suit, and the Occupant Humanoid, but they DONT have to look like Humans/Engineers.

"I'd start the next movie with Daniels in the shower."

MonsterZero, you're my hero. I'll have to circle back to comment more on your excellent opening and the character hygiene development.

I'd like to see some of the events in Alien: Covenant Origins novel in the next film Thoughts_Dreams. This would show Earth in early 2104 and give depth to the Covenant crew short Walter. Walter has just sentences that mention him in the novel. In addition to this, I wish to see how the Engineers review what happened on LV-223 and Planet 4 and then what they do.

It would be great to see what happens with Walter and if the Covenant ship lands on Planet 4.

"As with Covenant there were scenes that were cut that should have stayed there. One example is the book that the Engineer picks up and reads. This shows that he is interested in humans and not only a big angry body-builder on a rampage for some vague reason."

That is a good scene to cite Thoughts_Dreams.

It would have been great to see from the Engineer's perspective when he pans around looking at the Prometheus crew...when he is waking up and before he tears them apart. It would have been really cool to see how he saw the one synthetic and the rest of the crew.

In Alien: Covenant, there were small instances shown from the xenomorph perspective that I thought were great and this perspective is mentioned in the novels.

The title of Ridley Scott's new series is sure a coincidence when looking back at the post-Alien:Covenant marketing, August 2017.

I wrote the above topic about the Prometheus mural and the flashed images in response to the David's Lab teaser and when David mentioned "I finally found my wolf."

When I read of the new series, in summary, 2 androids on a virgin planet referred to as wolves shepherding a flock of humans...that is quite a coincidence.

" At least they should have had a clear explanation to why they did that "

Indeed this is another one of those things that the Drafts had a Explanation for... Fifield was STONED i tried to address this with my Re-write/Edit and i combined this with a few other bits that made the whole Scene not seem so bad.  (Fifield and Milburn Got Stoned ) Fifield tried to remove the Crystal (he Loves Rocks Remember)  and he activates the Mural Door,   Milburn is watching the Mural Stoned and he makes some comments about it..  Then the Door Opens Part way, and we get a Quick Glimpse inside (Frescos, Standing Cyro-Pod like Sarcophagi and smaller like Pods (Engineer Smaller Versions of what the Ripley Clones where Grown in).   This Freaks out Fifield who Falls over (slips on Black Goo) and then as he is on all Fours, we see TWO Hammerpedes.... Milburn tells him to stay Calm and gets between Fifield and Hammerpede, the Hammerped appears to be none threatening, so he goes for  a Closer Look but keeps a distance, holds hands up to confuse the Hammerpede (like you can with a Snake) Fifield is Freaking out.... Milburn turns to him and says Stay Calm... then looks back at the Hammerpede, Fifield than says lets get the F out of her and tries to grab Milburn to raise him off his knees, as Milburn Turns, the Hammerpede makes a Dash for him and in a Quick Reaction, Milburn Puts his Arm out and Catches the Hammerpede.

This helps to make more sense of the Scene, and show us a little sneak at what is behind the Door that gives more Context to the Mural Connection (Place they Store Hosts and Face Huggers).   I feel this version i had made up, was more fitting but again IF this was the way Lindeloff wrote it, it may still have had to be cut down due to pacing and Running Time.

Visual Changes/Additions i imagined adding..

I was trying to joke with JamietheBastard with the bowl reference clearing up everything Thoughts_Dreams.

You're right though. I had a friend of mine pumped up to watch Alien: Covenant right after Prometheus a week ago or so. The viral campaign for Prometheus seemed to work years back because it was mysterious and didn't really hold a key to the story. 

Not so much with Alien: Covenant, during review, his eyes glazed over and I was provided with charitable smiles. Advent, Meet Walter, and a trickle of concept art images didn't provide the same momentum for Alien: Covenant that we saw for Prometheus. The Crossing was made well but should have been in the movie. 

In regards to the recipe for the biomechanical xenomorph, the know how may be like the red-shaded glass found on Oak Island. The ways to make this shaded glass centuries ago were lost, rediscovered and adapted, then lost again. The way I believe I understand it, David resurrects an old xenomorph building process that was lost to time and timidity.

Advent

"Advent" is the prophetic anticipation celebrating the birth of the Messiah...a celebration of the event and Advent also refers to the celebration of the return of the Messiah. I believe the meaning behind the title Advent was referring to a "return" of the xenomorph. One seen in the past, harnessed by the Engineers, and then rediscovered and deployed by David with good manners..."May I ask who's in charge?"

Motes

"An animal species that propagates via plant spores? WTF? In Alien the creatures' breeding cycle was based on that of the parasitical breeding habits of certain species of terrestrial wasps, believable and horrific. Here a guy gets infected when a plant spore floats into his ear, pathetic and laughable"

"How the hell did the solar flare get into the captain's hypersleep chamber? Why was James Franco even in this movie? This scene was unneccesary and ridiculous. As was this terrible movie."

Both of the above quotes, to me, touch on material outside of the film JamietheBastard. You might have hated the film less if it had these items in Alien: Covenant.

First, the motes to me were more appreciated once familiar with David's notes. Second, I believe that Branson was fried by corporate email after a poor review by the suits that visited the Covenant ship in Earth orbit (Alien: Covenant Origins novel). Both are details that could have helped out in the film.

I really like the Citizen Kane reference above...I use The Godfather in the same context. THE PREDATOR made Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome look like The Godfather.

I understand the android fatigue Thoughts_Dreams.

I've watched Alien: Covenant enough times now that I can see that the film might have had too much android time at the expense of other character development.

Both Alien: Covenant novels were great and I believe the novels are rich in character development that was passed over. The long-game for the David character might be to make sure everyone is waiting for him to get turned off in grand fashion. I'm there now.

"This is great news for me since I am pretty sure that Ridley Scott will not direct another Alien film."

I certainly don't agree because I love Scott's work but that is very funny daliens. Thank you.

The Numb3rs series from Scott Free Productions was great. I'm actually looking forward to this Raised by Wolves. Make this series half as good as Numb3rs and I'll be fine. 

If they were to make the Alien: The Cold Forge novel into a film, then I believe the fan base would rejoice in loud chorus. The novel has great characters, potential for breathtaking backgrounds near a star when working in a repurposed space prison, a swarm of ill-tempered xenos, and it discusses our Artificial Person friends for about 2% of the text. 

The first thing I thought when I read the synopsis BigDave was "why do they have to restart?" So my hope is that they'll show a little bit of what happened back home.

Thank you cuponator3000.

@BigDave

"1) Mother as in MUTHUR the ships computer?"

That's my favorite version. Yes, at first sight we think about incubator. But Ridley never spoke explicitly, and there was always a second bottom in the prequels. I think what the Covenant was go so close to Planet 4 not by chance. And "Covenant" could mean a contract between David and WY. I don't think what WY controlled David.

And this give me interesting thoughts. What if the Derelict from Alien flies to Earth not for destruction the human race. But as "order" for WY from David. This explains why WY wants to get Alien. But not explain why Derelict sends a "danger" signal.

Ingeniero He was a jealous little jerk- just like his trainers (monkey see monkey do).

“I had mentioned before in Context that Engineering Apes to be more Human would be AI...”

Fair enough but is that was Scott is thinking? We don’t know since he is not very precise with what he means, which is a problem. Raised By Wolves (which I don’t care a bit about) is another android thing so I am afraid that he means androids.

“Then would these CHILDREN not be AI and in part Davids Creation?”

It could be anything, he hasn’t been too keen on humans this far so they AI could possibly be monsters, or robots, we don’t know. If it will be about robots then no thanks.

As far as Disney is concerned to them it means what is likely to bring a profit so that puts it in doubt. If the alternative to no movie would be another one about David then I would rather take no movie at least if it would be more of the same.

I don’t know, the prequels have shown new monsters so it could be done. I understand if many associate it with the Xeno but there are other monsters too. The Engineers story has opened up things so I do not see how they can not develop that

“They ways of Mankind and the Engineers that David is not pleased with would not be imprinted on those Children.”

I totally understand that, it is interesting but I still worry that it would be too much about David and less about humans. What you suggest is something that gives David too much of a role and I don’t like that.

“Enforce his own Rules, History, he could have them see him as their CREATOR and GOD”

In other words he is a kind of fascist, this is why I am not a fan of another movie about David, he is too unlikable at least that is how he turned out in AC:

“So is Raised by Wolves  the attempts to cover somewhat the ideas he had for Alien Covenant 2?”

Maybe, but I am not sure if I am interested in that since I am worried that this one also is too much about androids.

To me the alien franchise is about human characters that are dealing with situations that they are not prepared for so they deal with that under extreme pressure. I know that there are different parts in the alien universe but if I would reply to the question what parts I think of when someone mentions the franchise I would say the monster, WY, and then the Engineers. Ripley would probably not be my answer since she is just one of many human characters in it.

I would like to see new monsters, well-written human characters, and have that feeling of terror that there is in Alien 1-3. Do not do as in the prequels and focus on the androids because that would be lame. Having an android heavy movie then you got to have well-written human characters to balance that so it does not become the android show because that is lame in the alien universe.

Gavin:

It would be strange if Disney would not keep in mind how AC performed. In a Way Alien Covenant deserved what it got because it is not a very good movie even though I wish that it was but at the same time it is not total crap. Honestly before I watched it I hoped that they had learned from Prometheus but they didn’t.

As far as the TV-series is concerned maybe they have a sort of confidence in it but maybe not as a full movie is concerned. They know that there is an audience but not an audience that is as big as to make a movie theater thing, how about that? I would rather have that than another movie about a mad android with weak human characters. Honestly I do not have any interest in the kind of thing that Scott wants to do (which would be more David, *sigh*).

Not interested in Blomkamp’s movie if it will retcon Alien 3.

To comment a bit on what Big Dave says, if they do not listen to the criticism then something would be very wrong but hopefully they try to listen and no the monsters were far from the main problem. I am just speaking for myself

“Just don't think we'll receive a RS installment next for Alien.” - RickT

If that would have been another David movie then I am not going to be sad if it will not be done. To add to this I got to say that I will not be sad if we never see any conclusion to the prequels, because, well, shit happens. All Scott has been saying is that well Xenomorph but then he says that
David will do this and David will do that bla bla bla. All that he cares about is David and I am not interested. He is an interesting character in a way but I do not want a movie about him which it seems that Scott wanted.

Leto:

Wouldn’t that depend on what we call superior? What kind of traits that are desirable? Like he could be superior when it comes to X but not to Y?

Yes he made mistakes, and that was interesting. He has a big ego but big egos can lead to downfalls. This could possibly be how David ends up.

“Maybe Enginners come to Origae-6, but all of them are destroyed by xenomorphs...”

Possibly, but I would like the Engineers to take down David before that is done. Give him what he deserves

Maybe there are already eggs there that David did not create so that hints that he just developed his own version. I really dislike David as the original creator of the Xeno so hopefully something can be done about that.

“will be piloting this ship on Earth or/with stop at LV-223 for restocking black goo and modification of xenomorphs, but pilot be infested and ship crash on LV-426.”

This is a part that I am not sure if I understand, will that mean that David is the pilot in the chair (1979) or not? I do not mind if the Engineers might take David’s things and try to develop it so either a Engineer or a life-form above the Engineers is the SJ but I refuse to have David as it.

BD

I answer some ideas from your response to BioDegradable too if that is OK, I think that it is interesting. Apologies if what I did here was wrong.

Agreed that human bodies rot so to speak and the AI does not do the same thing, that is kind of interesting but they should put that in another franchise. You ask where the Engineers got their technology from, maybe they stole it from those that created them? One alternative is that they were handed it and misused it like the humans run pout of control.

“I do think we can see that David may feel he is more Worthy of this Knowledge and Technology and it would be interesting to see to what END he could use it.”

This is something that I agree with 50%, he might agree that he is more worthy of it (he is a narcissist) but I do not care to see more about what he would do with it. There are already two David movies although less so in Prometheus.

“I think RS is trying to show us Creation and to ask what determines Creation, what makes a Life-Form”

I agree but that is not why I watch the alien movies. It could work but then we need more focus on the humans and the monsters. Right now it does not work so the movies suffer from that.

“what is a SOUL?”

That is interesting, I have read philosophy about it, maybe a lot is to exaggerate but I have read some. It is a question that is interesting but it is not something that I look for in an alien movie. When we look at Weyland and David I can see that is a question that Scott is interested in and I am too, I just don’t think that it is very alien.

“.... but with a AI who has such Memories and Emotions that can be Stored in a AI Program and Computer, and thus this SOUL can be uploaded then in effect the AI has a Eternal Soul so to speak."

I understand that but I do not think that it will go that far. Again this is not what I am looking fir in an alien movie but give me something else about it and I might be interested.

All these questions are interesting but it takes away a lot of what I am looking for in an alien movie, namely well-done human characters that are facing situations that they are not prepared for. In this case they are fighting both the creatures(s) and the company that is just in it for profit (which I think is more interesting in this universe).

“which most would consider to be about Xenomorphs, but i feel the Xenomorph is more cooked than the AI aspect.”

I think that both the Xeno (at least the classic one) and the robot thing is over-done. I would prefer to see more about the Engineers and the SJ and more about the human journey or what ever to call it.

“I think they need to use the AI and Xenomorph as not the Main Focus but allow them to be used to draw some connection and context to Creation and Humans and Engineers and other layers of Creation.”

At least that sounds better than Scott’s obsession with David which to me is messing things up. To me both the humans and the Engineers are far more interesting than the David story. It is just to bad that Alien Covenant abandoned the Engineers.

“One VERY Valid Point you raise often Thoughts_Dreams is Human Characters and IF we explore a route like in OT, then its a case of could Fans Connect to a New Version of Humans that are Engineered or would they be seen only as Robots?”

Hmm, that is interesting. To me it would depend on how they are written and if we can sympathize with them. Human characters can be interesting but still be assholes but you need sympathetic human characters at least some when the main thing is a fascist android. This is not something that is impossible (a new kind of humans, we have had the Cro-magnons, and so on). Who knows what the next stage in human evolution will be? Hopefully something smarter, rational, and compassionate.

In science they use mice in tests so maybe the Engineers or who ever with the technology and knowledge does this with humans too? You can imagine a lot of interesting stories that they could have about this but it should be clear that it is attached to the alien universe otherwise it will be like Prometheus where people go “huh?”.  

Maybe you could show that the Engineers are heavily involved with this and to show how they are connected to the Xeno to show their role as genetic gardeners or how ever they are described. When we look at them like that we could see that they are both involved in evolving (word-play obviously) both the Xeno and humanity. So they are in it to erase the old humanity with a version that they think will be better so hopefully they have learned their lesson that time but we will see about that. To me the Alien franchise has always been about the human journey so that could be a continuation of that. There should be some dangers facing those also (possibly made by the Engineers) otherwise there would be no tension.

“it all depends on the story and how characters are developed.”  - Biodegradable

I agree, Prometheus and Alien Covenant should be an example of this because of how they failed with that. The stories might be alright but the characters lack

“I agree i think the Engineers Plot could have potentially ran very deep, and interesting and if its not ALIEN enough then you can simply introduce another Run on the Ladder, and explore something different that is above the Engineers.”

I think that is dependent on how clear that they are about that the Engineers made the original or found something and evolved it. If you write them as interesting and intimidating (dangerous) then I think that it could be alright, it is just too bad that they did not make sense of them in Prometheus.

“What Conflicts have they been involved with in the Universe, are all the Engineers on the Same Page?”

It depends, it could be different factions that are at war with each-other.

I do not mind philosophical scenes, hell Matrix is a sort of philosophy class and I liked the discussion at least partially between Walter and David although it was too long or at least to slow.

“Does he eventually Kill Off the Adults and maybe some of the 2000 Colonist are Children, and he then settles them down on the Surface.  His Subjects.”

Maybe he tries to see that there are different kinds and those that he dislike he kills off. It depends on how black and white his kind of thinking is.

“maybe we could have some kind of Wooden Theme World with Ritual/Religious way of life like Monks... “

This could be interesting, like the wooden planet by Vincent Ward, at least a bit.

Daniels, either develop her personality (a lot!) as a character or kill her off. Right now she has no personality so I am not really interested in what happens to her. Perhaps she could have a cameo but that is bigger than how Shaw ended up otherwise it would feel like they would repeat themselves.

“I think we will explore a lot of Philosophy about Religion, Creation, Punishment etc etc”

Maybe it could work, it worked in Alien 3 (religion and philosophy).

“.... does he warn those Colonist these Humans are Evil and get them to side with him?”

He mostly cares about himself and the androids so he would do what ever to survive, not sure what that would be. Nah, kill that fucker

“David Controlling the AI of the Weyland-Yutani Systems including any incoming Synthetics... but i cant rule this out as being a part of it.”

That is to give him too much of a role, I do not like it. Sure he can indeed play a certain part of it, I am not against that but I do not want it to be all about or mostly focused on David.

I would really like to see more of the Engineers.

Ingeniero:

Yeah, I remember that scene but they got to keep things like that in the movie otherwise many people will think that it is stupid. Keep important things in the movie and not in deleted scenes or books because not many will look those things up compared to the movie.

BD

Well then throw out David as the creator, they have changed things so they could change that also. Many would be like me and think "that beast that looks so different a product of a crazy robot? Lame"

Maybe they could do a last prequel and then shut it down for a while.

"David was able to use this and Create his Xenomorph.   He had taken what the Engineers Started and EVOLVED it!"

I do not mind it if David is not the total maker so to speak of the Xeno. Having the Engineers in the link of the evolution of the Xeno could be alright because then it is not a pure result of a mad robot. This should have been done before they made Alien Covenant so David would not have been the creator of it but now it is about damage-control.

I think that it could be interesting to see the SJ life-form. Since they have damaged the image of the Xeno in the prequels then I think that they must make up for that by making the SJ life-form great and mysterious. Everyone will not be happy about that but art least that could keep some mystery in the franchise which has been damaged to an extent by the prequels the way that they have gone this far.

"The Space Jockey Race should be the BIGGER part of the Story."

That could be interesting, it depends on how they make the SJ race. I think that it could be interesting if they are about militarism, colonize different world, and so on. Maybe they could make this work but I am not sure judging from how they have done the prequels this far. There are a lot of ideas how the SJ being would be but the thing is to make it interesting and they need writers to do that. I am not sure if the writers of Alien Covenant could do that. They need to find someone that can make human characters, and that can make a good story. Of course I am not saying that this is the easiest thing to do but I think that is what needs to be done if they do not want to dig a bigger hole so to speak.

David in as the middle-man or as the maker of 4, 5, 6 in a link of 1-8 would not matter as long as he is not the one that makes the final monster.

I really hope that they will make keep the black goo as a mystery, they did not handle it that good in Alien Covenant. They really should not have made Alien Covenant but now the damage is done.

"… and while it wont please EVERY Fan (some who will want the Xenomorph to be its own Ancient Species/Race) It gets it back to the A (Alpha) and Z (Omega) of the Xenomorphs Origins being connected to the Space Jockey Race or its Creators and where David merely just filled in M-O"

Yeah but now it is about damage-control. We can never get a prequels series that is a 10 out of 10 but depending on how they handle the third one we might be able to keep it at a 5 out of 10 regarding all three movies as an average.

A TV-series that develop characters might be a good thing but they got to be in the movies also. I would watch one if they do that part well, it might improve that current situation of the alien franchise.

Prometheus was alright (2 out of 5 for me) but it needed clearer links to the Xeno, better human characters, and also a clearer link between the Engineers and the SJ. The Xeno-Fifield should have been in the movie, not the Zombie. Zombies are fine in those kind of movies but not in the Alien universe.

The goo was interesting but they should have been clearer with the connection of the goo-hamerpede-Xeno. My complaint is that it was not clear enough how it was connected to the Xeno.

As with Covenant there were scenes that were cut that should have stayed there. One example is the book that the Engineer picks up and reads. This shows that he is interested in humans and not only a big angry body-builder on a rampage for some vague reason.

The petting a space snake should have been completely removed. It still looks stupid and makes the scientists look like idiots. At least they should have had a clear explanation to why they did that if they want to have it in there at all. Still to this day I find that scene the way it played out to be dumb as fuck.

A bit more from Alien Engineers would have been nice since it was more of a direct link to the Xeno although a bit ambiguity is fine but it should not be as much as in Prometheus. More Spaights less Lindelof. I do not claim that everything bad was Lindelof’s fault, looking back at AC Scott was involved in it also so it could be reasonable to think that Scott and Fox were involved in some bad things that were in Prometheus.

Sub-titles to the Engineer speaks to Weyland, that would have explained things a bit more. This should have been put in the movie because then we would have understood the Engineers a bit more I think.

The run time and extended. Scenes, well then cut some less important scenes as long as you explain more of those that are important. Maybe it would have been longer but it would have been better and maybe more people would have been satisfied with it and Fox would have gained more money and it would have given them happier viewers.

 Thanks Ingeniero.  Glad you appreciate and think so too:)

Excellent research and comparison. I would not be surprised at all if the veiled political comment was Giger's design. Awesome Nathan Adler.

"Alien Advent, but it seems similar to if you replaced the Pyramid with Engineer Temple Complex, and a incoming ship Discovered the Wreckage of Prometheus and the Life-boat.... so more like what a Prometheus 2 could have been if we had a Alternative Plot that investigated LV-223 but then another to Planet 4 could also fit a similar like Plot."

I thought the same thing when I looked back at Alien: Advent/Terminus and when reading Ridley Scott mentioning "multiple players" returning to Planet 4 BigDave. The wreckage shown below on Planet 4 reminded me of the last page of the comic above when others arrive after the incident.

And I still think there is a pyramid on Planet 4, below. So, that would really match up to the Advent comic above.

"The new Captain Moron has just shot dead the evil android's pet alien, which had munched off his crewmate's head. Evil android is super pissed about this, and yet Captain Moron obligingly sticks his face right over an object that looks suspiciously like a big, slimy egg when evil android tells him to."

I think you might have missed the reference to the lavender-like balm that David offered before the captain looks over the egg JamietheBastard. It was in the novel and the deleted scenes.

This might have tied both films together for you. 

Awesome example Batchpool. The baboon became tomato soup.

I didn't mind the Monkey Shines casualty dk. He was a little jerk.

My two cents too BigDave. Overall I thought Prometheus was great.

"2) Slight Improvement with the Engineers, as in used effects like LOTR and HOBBIT to make our Engineers appear 8-10ft Tall. 

*Maybe a few more clues about the Engineers.

*Longer Engineer Scenes with Dialog and maybe Translations/Subtitles."

Yes. That is a great example of how the Engineers should have been depicted in regards to the Hobbits. I agree and wish I could have seen more of the Engineers' ways as well, specifically a conflict of some sort.

Thank you BigDave. I had to edit out Walter in the garden and Jacob floating in space. You're most welcome.

They look Good... i think the Cell Shaded like Filter has a nice effect to them, thanks for the Effort and Share ;)