Comments (Page 296)

I personally think RS has been a victim of his own success and style of film making. To clarify what I mean by this, I think it is worth looking at the style with which RS delivers a movie. He has always been great in the visual department and has always delivered on that. He also has a way of telling a story, and this I where I feel some things have become a little unstuck. Prometheus was an introductory movie pursuing a different avenue within the Alien universe. With the avoidance of Alien in the title it should have been clear that a xenomorph would not be present within the opening bars of this fresh performance. Fans aside, RS has a style that does not throw everything into the opening phrases of a new work. Things need to be established and scenes set before moving on into another section of the story. It is a kind of, one step at a time approach which creates a build up to something, but a build up to what?

Prometheus has great visuals and by the end of the movie has set up a situation to continue into another movie. Unfortunately, this is where I think the problems have started with the cinematic style of RS.

When looking through the back catalogue of the films RS has produced, it should be pain to see that his body of work is comprised of movies which have told a story through the duration of one movie. It would now appear that he has attempted to extend his style over the duration of a series of movies.

For me, AC is a bridging movie, but it also represents the second act of a three act movie. Just imagine watching only the middle third of Alien, and hopefully you may see what I am getting to. Many movies, because the entire story is contained within that one performance tend to have an end goal, and some sort of final objective. The end goal can shape the pace and entire tone of a movie as it is slowly revealed. With Prometheus and AC there is still no clear direction as to what this might be, But be aware that this is the style of RS, and it is usual for his best punch lines not to be too predictable.

Now I would say it is safe to say that RS had an idea for the end objective, and that there was a final script of sorts that could go into production. But something has happened. If a new movie was to come out now, would it lead onto anything else? Would that be it for the Alien franchise?  Would we get one more movie and then the entire franchise is dead in the water?

It’s at this point where I feel that the whole programme has been under re-evaluation and maybe someone somewhere has said  “ Change the end objective”.

This would now mean that there would have to be some new scripting and maybe title changes.

My guess is that because of the big change in who is now running things and box office performances, it is a bit like taking a car in for a regular service to be then told that the engine needs changing.

With regards to the Alien 5 project. If there is any truth in the idea that everything ends up on LV 426, then I think I can now understand the situation that came about resulting in Blomkamp dropping everything. Apparently it was considered that there was some small overlap in ideas. I am not buying that for one minute. If anyone is to take a close look at some of Blomkamp’s ideas, it can be seen that there was an idea of using technology to control xenomorphs. Now Blomkamp, it would appear would want to take the route of a xenogasmic battlefest, and have controlled xenomorphs. But just hold on there for a moment. RS stated that he wanted a war, and one of the most crucial scenes of AC I think is where David raises his arms with the new xenomorph , which is really in my book a statement about control.

Does’nt this leave a situation where you have two directors wanting a battlefest on the same topic ? Is there really room for two such movies?  And ultimately is there a profit there from a beast that is supposed to be cooked ?

"I think the evolution of the Alien himself is nearly over, but what I was trying to do was transcend and move to another story, which would be taken over by A.I.’s. The world that the AI might create as a leader if he finds himself on a new planet. We have actually quite a big layout for the next one – Covenant 2"

This was taken from RS Podcast with Empire Magazine.

I have never seen this comment before so its very interesting.....

I now do wonder if Ridley Scotts future SCI-FI series Raised by Wolves is him actually carrying over ideas he had for the sequel to Alien Covenant  in light of the Limbo this sequel is in.... maybe RS knows much more about the Potential of the Sequel... or Lack Of getting one and so he has chosen this Opportunity to carry his ideas over.

I had mentioned on here a bit over the years about AI and my Prometheus 2 i was working on in 2013 was very AI related.  I had then had ideas how i would do a Alien Covenant 2 and 3 and discussed them on here (a lot prior to information about AC2). and my ideas were again Focused on AI and David setting up some kind of Colony where he would have the Colonist see him as a Savior he was indeed to be portrayed as a King David, as Noah and Mosses.. and even have him lay New Rules based off the Biblical Ones... with also a Forbidden Place and Fruit not to Eat!  These sequels were Alien: Ascension and Alien: Absolution.  But i put these on hold as i had a very hard period in Life Between August 2017-Early 2018

Anyway the kind of ideas i had for the sequels... may not be too far off what RS may in part have had.. if i take into account that comment made on the Empire Podcast

"I think the evolution of the Alien himself is nearly over, but what I was trying to do was transcend and move to another story, which would be taken over by A.I.’s. The world that the AI might create as a leader if he finds himself on a new planet. We have actually quite a big layout for the next one – Covenant 2"

Then look at the Plot for Raised by Wolves...

"Raised by Wolves centers upon two androids tasked with raising human children on a mysterious virgin planet. As the burgeoning colony of humans threatens to be torn apart by religious differences the androids learn that controlling the beliefs of humans is a treacherous and difficult task."

Now if we look at how in other interviews RS said the next movie would Focus more on AI and NOT the Xenomorphs. He had mentioned in context to AI that Roy Batty was AI, Rachael  i took this comment with what RS said about the Planet 4 Engineers being the Originals as the LV-223 Engineers could be to them as Replicants are to Humans.

I have said on here a number of times that some look at David and AI as Robots! and that RS was thinking Bigger than that and to ask what is a AI?   I had mentioned before in Context that Engineering Apes to be more Human would be AI

So if we now go to the Raised by Wolves Plot and the Empire Magazine Podcast Comment by RS  and then look at a Movie thats about AI and "what kind of a World would David Build"

Consider this (as mentioned other day)....

If David was to TINKER with those Human Embryos, could he Perfect Them?   Use the Engineering knowledge he gained on Planet 4 and maybe some Black Goo then could David Genetically Modify those Human Embryos to Perfect the Humans....    Then would these CHILDREN not be AI and in part Davids Creation?  As they indeed are Artificially Modified.

David raising Genetically Engineered Humans from Birth could allow him to Rule Over them with what ever KNOWLEDGE he wishes... Enforce his own Rules, History, he could have them see him as their CREATOR and GOD

Ok for that it would take what 5-10 years for these Children to Grow... that also has to take into account the Travel to Origae-6 (7.333 years)  Maybe David could Engineer a Quicker Growth Rate for the Children?

You could imagine David doing something like this with those Human Embryos so that Mankind gets a Fresh Start a NEW Eden.... where these Infants would be FREE of SIN... where the only Knowledge they would gain is from DAVID.  They ways of Mankind and the Engineers that David is not pleased with would not be imprinted on those Children.

This is a plot similar to a degree to my ideas...

I think is a Plot that Fits the Comments RS had made regarding the Sequel.... and it fits with the Plot for Raised by Wolves!

So is Raised by Wolves  the attempts to cover somewhat the ideas he had for Alien Covenant 2? could this IF True mean he feels his Alien Covenant 2 is unlikely to ever be made and Raised by Wolves is his chance to show us his ideas as he cant wait around for 5, 10 years to make a sequel to Alien Covenant.

Could Raised by Wolves give us insight, as i have tried to above that maybe something similar to what i have put could be something that RS was going to EXPLORE?

Nice Work Mr Sage ;)

Totally Agree I Raptus

Regarding the location of LV-426 i think its one of those things that could be misinterpreted or indeed RS was hinting that they will be heading to LV-426 as far as this is where they will be taking us at the Climax of the Prequels.

But again i could be wrong for assuming that we wont be going to LV-426 next...

I think we need to take into account the over-all comments that RS has mentioned regarding the Xenomorph and where they are taking us next....  his comments seem to indicate the next movies plans will not be a very ALIENY movie as far as Xenomorphs running wild...

His comments about AI and how he sees this as the greater threat, and about how he felt he was ahead of the curve with Prometheus..... and how he feels the Xenomorph has nearly ran its course and you have to bring something NEW.

How he said the next movie would be more about AI, and asking "what kind of a world would David build"

They dont add up to me to suggest the next movie he will head to LV-426 and set up shop and start to create loads of Eggs and then the 3-4 Parties arrive and its WAR!  But that certainly seems  a likely set up for the 4th Prequel that would likely connect to ALIEN

We have to ask what is there on LV-426?

The Derelict?  Yes back at the time before the U-Turn Plot about David creating the Xenomorph.  at the time of Prometheus we had Ridley Scott confirm the Derelict was taken to LV-426 a Baron World.   We had the Prometheus Viral Website that indicated they knew of the Signal.

But a lot of this Information has been Ret-Conned with Alien Covenant, from WHEN David was Created, to the Origins of the Xenomorph.... so i would assume the idea at the time of Alien Covenant and Set-Up would be that in the Time-Line the Prequels are at (2105) there is NO Derelict on LV-426

We have to ask what is on LV-426 for David then? Outposts? and Engineer Ships?  But then this would conflict the Franchise as we have to assume the only Xenomorphs on LV-426 are the Derelicts Cargo Hold.

But they could change things... maybe even i am mistake and the Plan is LV-426 and they can use the unused concepts of the Egg Silos.   It would be more ideal for the Engineers to Experiment on LV-223 and then Store Eggs on LV-426.... or if they Discovered the Eggs on LV-426 they then transport for Re-Engineering on LV-223.

Those would make sense in that context..

But i think the plan was to have it that DAVID is the Creator of the Xenomorph...

I suspect he will go to Planet 4, start some kind of NEW LIFE with the Colonist..... then people turn up and David gets rumbled....  the %$£^$ Hits the Fan more when the Engineers arrive.... and i think we will be set up for a 3rd Alien: Prequel 

Were we will see the Final Piece to the Jigsaw that Evolves Davids Xenomorphs and shows how they end up on a Engineer Ship heading towards LV-426.... which to mean means a Stop-Off at LV-223 for some Experimentation/Mass Production.

It all comes down to Davids Agenda... what he wants to do next and WHY?

If it is purely to Mass Produce his Xenomorphs and use them on Mankind  then  heading to LV-223 would be the Place to Go Next!  But this would be a movie more about the Xenomorph and does not fit with RS comments about it being more about AI and what kind of a WORLD he would build.

A Problem with going to LV-223 if this is Davids Agenda would be IF he has concerns the Engineers may turn back up on Planet 4.... with No Ships he could leave in... it would certainly give him Good Reasons to want to escape with the Covenant and so IF he is Clever and Wise he would be concerned that he CANT stay on Planet 4, and that going to LV-223/426 would be a place that the Engineers could turn up too, and also Weyland-Yutani.  And so going to Origae-6 may make more sense even if he wishes to Create more Xenomorphs.

Also have to ponder all of sudden after the what kind of world a Android would build with Human Colonist in for the ride that would be more about Artificial Intelligence Plot for the sequel.... has been put on Indefinite Hold...

Has RS wondered if his ideas will NEVER see the light of day and so he is taking some of those to be used with his SCI-FI Series Raised by Wolves?

I think taking a look at the more Anti Xenomorph comments, where he sees the Focus should not be on the Beast, and his interest in AI and the Prometheus Themes...  and HOW it appears the plan was at least TWO movies more before we get to ALIEN.

I just cant see him going to LV-426 in the next movie, and then have another movie after that were we get to the Derelict/Space Jockey Event...... But thats just my take on what has been said and the Set-Up... i could be way off base!

I dont think RS was hyping it up, if there was any hyping up being done it was with Alien 5.   When Alien Covenant was given the Green Light we can be sure it was not a Green Light for a single movie, it would have been for a series that would have lead to the Back Door of ALIEN so the movie was made lending towards having at least a sequel.

At the time prior to Alien Covenant's release you can be sure they had some of the Broad-strokes to where they would be taking the Prequels.   I think the Announcement of when the Rights to 20th Century Fox was being Sold Off, this would put a Hold or at least a Slow down to any such projects.  The Criticism and Disappointing Box Office may also have but the breaks on the sequel a little.... but the Pending Take Over Talks could well have put a Stop to it for the time being.

It was revealed that Awakening was the Title to Alien 5, well RS had said this was the case, so that means they decided to borrow the name of Blomkamps Alien 5 and if thats correct then thats a bit of a underhanded move.... oh yeah thank you Blomkamp but we wont be making Alien 5 we will be making a Prometheus 2 but we like the name Alien Awakening so we use this for Prometheus 3.

I think thing to consider is Ridley Scott does get muddled up a bit at times and he could have got thinks mixed up... he did say in ONE Interview after Alien Covenant that the series would go Prometheus, Awakening and then Covenant....

Which led to people to think... hang on so the next movie is going to be a sequel to Prometheus but a Prequel to Alien Covenant?

Looking at the Events of Alien Covenant and a lot of what had happened between Prometheus and Alien Covenant (Davids experiments) then Alien Awakening would certainly be a fitting name to the events that happened during the 10 years between Prometheus and Alien Covenant.  But just because it sounds like it would fit.... and RS made that comment about the order being Prometheus, Awakening then Covenant..  does not mean that RS had made a slip up in the Order of things.

Alien Awakening is a name that also could suit Blomkamps Movie because indeed the idea was set 20+ years after the events of ALIENS (discounted Alien 3 on wards) so a with the Concept Works it does fit a movie where after 20 years the Company gets its hands on the Derelict and the Alien Re-awakens...

Some of the latter concept work, seems to have the name Red Harvest for Blomkamps Alien 5 and thats a Title that you could picture would fit a Alien Covenant Sequel... especially with the RS asking "what kind of a world would David Build"  Certainly seemed the Covenant was to set up shop on Origae-6 and build a Cabin which means they would live a somewhat basic LIFE, and the Terraforming bay had a number of Machines for Farming the Land....  So  indeed a Good Harvest would be needed for the Colony and a Red Harvest could indicate a Bloody Harvest... why maybe even we could ponder some kind of Wicker-Man Plot... where a Colonist is Sacrificed every year for a Better Harvest.  

But these are just ways to think how that Title could relate to AC Sequel..... yet that working Title is for BLOMKAMPS Project.

So sometimes it hard to gauge things with RS.... is Alien Awakening or was it the Title for Covenants Sequel?  It seems likely.. but then who knows.

I think regardless, it appears they was working on Drafts right until November 2017, but then this is when a combination of at First the Disappointing World Total Box Office came in, and then the period leading to Take Over Talks.

Katherine Waterston said she had heard some interesting rumors about her Character.... but then nothing for a while and so it would appear they had the Broad-strokes and they then was working on the Drafts... before things would have hit the breaks a little (Disappointing Box Office) and since the Take Over Talks/Battle its gone into Limbo.

Too bad, but here is something I made, this is my best work yet ;) Alien Awakening: The Planet Soundtrack

I think that's most likely the reason for this clarification. Awakening was likely the working title for Alien 5 not Covenant 2, as originally thought. The talk of both films around the same time was what caused the confusion there.

C'mon, Let Riddlers finish his prequels!

Fox/Ridley agreed to go down this genesis path with Prometheus.

Disney see it through, give us closure then they can move it forward with a new direction :)

"Or are BMD's sources merely addressing the rumors around the Alien: Awakening title?"

I think - this. Maybe Alien: Awakening called differently?

Another thing to remember, and especially with a Hold-up (due to Take Over) is the Set-up and comments by RS and Direction of Alien Covenant are things that are being Heavily Criticized and lack Anticipation

While Fans dont have the Final Say, the Production company would be looking more for a Movie that Makes $$$$ rather than a Plot/Story that say Ridley Scott favors.

And so what ever point they are at as far as the Plot for the Next Movie, we cant Guarantee what % of this would remain after No-Doubt those at Disney (if they wish to pursue a sequel) have taken time to Gauge what kind of Plot will attract the Box Office Seats.

I guess its one of those..

Do we believe the words from out of RS mouth or some so called Source?

As i mentioned on the other Topic, it would seem that WORK had commenced on the PLOT for the next movie, what would happen is RS and Logan (potentially others) would sit down and Brainstorm were to take the next movie, what it SHOULD and WOULD-NOT contain.... then once they arrive at this point which i think they had.... its then left to Logan to Write up a Draft and Submit it.

Bare in mind IF we get to this point then its only the First Stage as then its unlikely any First Submission would get the GO-AHEAD

so i think for Certain RS comments have to at least indicate they know what they want to do and want to show and it then entered the Period of Logan working on the Draft but the Concept/Idea of what the Draft would contain is FINISHED but they are working on putting those ideas into a Draft.

It could be that Logan had Finished his First Draft.

But certainly could seem that a Final Draft has not been reached, and regardless of that Article i think any ALIEN movie is in a state of Limbo...  Certainly Ideas had been going around and work being done, and Certainly FOX would have been interested...  But when the company went into Take-Over Talks i feel work may have halted or slowed down.

I think ONCE we have RS next Sci-Fi Project Released, (Raised by Wolves) then maybe he would make some comments towards the Alien Franchise.

If there is ANY News then i think it would be ideal to emerge or announce by or on ALIEN DAY 2019 i feel come after April 26th 2019 if we get No News or any News that confirms the Franchise is on Hold... then we can start to worry about not seeing a conclusion anytime soon.

Regarding going to the Planet.... i think this is the intention... they will be going to LV-426 eventually.  But i dont think it means that David will be taking the Covenant Ship to LV-426.  I cant find any reason WHY

I find more reason to go to LV-223 but with the comments Ridley Scott made, it does-not paint the Picture that this is Davids First Port of Call.

Indeed the dates are set in stone by virtue of the Dates given in ALIENS and then how long Ripely was floating around in Space on the Nostromo which gives us the 2122 Date of the events of ALIEN i cant see them changing the Time-Line.

Alien Covenant leaves us in the year 2105 were we have David at the Controls of the Covenant Ship.

The Question is WHERE does David go next?

If he goes to Origae-6 it will take 7 years 4 Months which will place us in the year 2112 some 10 years before ALIEN

If he goes to LV-223/426 then it would be the year 2105 by the time he arrives and so 17 years prior to ALIEN

It appears RS does make a lot of comments that maybe are to please/agree with those Powers that Be when the work began on the Prequels it was the aim as RS had said to Answer the Questions that NO-ONE ever answered in the Franchise..  Who was that Guy in the Chair, Why that Cargo which is when Jon Spaights was brought in.  It appears down the line that some at FOX had felt the Engineers Plot was New and that maybe somethings are best left a Mystery (Xenomorph/Space Jockey Event) and so Lindeloff came in to make his Paradise Draft... It seemed at this point RS did agree that indeed the Beast is Cooked and that its better to try something NEW.

The talk and comments after seemed to indicate that a sequel should explore other things and leave the events leading to ALIEN a Mystery....

When we had the Change of Direction, it appears RS had a change of mind, by suggesting that you can go a few more rounds with the Xenomorph, and then about it has to be about HIM but you can Evolve HIM. (he was on about either the Xenomorph or David).

Its only when Alien Covenant started to not do too well, that RS then comes back with comments about how there is only so much Chest Pumping, and Snarling you can do, and about how he felt he was ahead of the Curve with Prometheus.     Would he had acted the same IF we saw Alien Covenant make $400M+

And IF Disney did give the Green Light to a sequel but wanted more ALIENS kinda vibe to it, i do wonder if RS would then come out with praises for the Xenomorph.

So i do wonder if he says a lot to please the Powers that Be

But i do think that he feels there genuinely is only so much you can do with the Xenomorph Formula as it was laid down with the Franchise and i think he was a bigger Fan of the Engineers and Creation Plot and the Hubris in Creation kind of Themes.

There is not much information to Gauge if RS was a Fan of the Alien Engineers Project but he and Spaights had worked a lot together on the Broad-strokes of the Plot. It would appear he was more a Fan of taking it to something NEW regarding the Engineers though.

Certainly his comments overall regarding Alien Covenant and afterwards do seem to indicate to me that he felt you could not keep going back to the Xenomorph over and over for the Franchise and that you had to have something New.

His comments about being ahead of the curve with Prometheus, his comments about they want Aliens he give them $"£%£$^ Aliens, all seem to indicate to me that he feels the Xenomorph (while not cooked) is running out of Steam as in you can only do so much more with it.

And i Totally Agree.

Thanks for chronicling these updates daliens!

Ah! Thanks very much, I was sent the Galaxy article over social but didn't have a chance to see your post on the forums here. Nice job! I would say you should submit info like that as a news article instead of a forum topic so it automatically hits the homepage.

I will adjust the credit accordingly. :)

Here Chris.

Thanks for mentioning, ignorantGuy.

Hey Chris, daliens already mentioned that article here (on the 15th) before Avp Galaxy (article dating from the 16th), maybe give credit to him instead.

Leto Ok, but the date can appear in Aliens or other media... Should we discard those?

@BigDave

"However to Raise a Colony from Birth would mean Decades and ONCE he gets to Origae-6 it only leaves us 10 years to ALIEN... "

Yeah, but... Alien movie have information about year? I mean - 2122. Without additional materials and different sources. Only in movie? I don't remember this.

Ridley can move Alien events to 50 or 100 years in future. In 2222 year, for example.

"This sometimes can apply to some of the Criticism aimed at Ridley Scott, for example he was quite happy with Alien Engineers, butPowers that Be at FOX decided that maybe the XenomorphAnswers/Origins should be Toned down and the Movie (Prometheus) should not have any Xenomorphs....   Then when Prometheus was setting up to STEER away from ALIEN.... again the Powers that Beat FOX decided that actually the sequel should explain the Xenomorph Origins and introduce the Xenomorphs."

You have quite a narrative there, but I need proof for that as:

1. Scott himself said the xeno is cooked and he wondered why no one explored the big guy in the chair. So for him to be content with a more typical Alien for me is fishy. 

2. He said that he has made a mistake with Prometheus by not including the xeno. If he would have been forced to do it, he would have said Fox I've told you so.

3. Lindelof said that the sequel would go even further from the alien formula.

If Fox decided anything, was to introduce the Xeno as quickly as possible after Prometheus and to kill off Shaw and to include a tall woman with the Ripley haircut from Aliens, all in hope to generate more money.

I am less concerned about the age of Fassbender than of that of Ridley Scott.

And I am afraid that on Alien Day 2019 we might get at best the news about a tv series. 

Regarding the Draft... Alien Awakening.

Ridley Scott had confirmed that they was working on it, so it was in the Process of being done, which means that RS and Logan and those involved would have Brainstormed and Thrashed out what they likely want to see and at the time of Fall 2017 its likely that Logan was in the Process of attempting to put those ideas into some early Draft... but it all went Quiet at the time of the Take-Over Talks. and resulting Bids from Disney/Comcast.

Regarding HOW the Plot could change by the Time we get a Sequel, i agree.  There is quite a bit in Alien Covenant that i think was never conceived as Intentions or Ideas at the time of Post Prometheus Circa 2013-2014

The Longer its in LIMBO the less likely Fassbender would be playing a Larger Role... because they cant make a Sequel in 10 years and then Pass Fassbender off as a 35 year old looking Male Android..  But who knows HOW GOOD the best of CGI would be  then to Overlay Him.

I think ALIEN DAY 2019 the 40th Anniversary should be interesting to keep a eye out on details and progression because this DATE would be Marketing Gold to Announce another ALIEN movie or Project.... If there is NO mention about a AC Sequel by then.... maybe we can start to have Concerns about getting a Conclusion.

Regarding the Engineers i would say indeed they wont be coming from Planet 4 after the Aftermath of Davids Bombardment (but will return to Discovery what happened).  And its likely they are off to Origae-6 after David but we will be heading to LV-223 at some point.

I see NO point why David would go to LV-426, if we consider that there is NO Derelict on LV-426 at present (2105 in the Alien Time-Line) but this could be changed, some speculate the Derelict has been there already..... wishful thinking now... but we cant rule it out, but if they GO that route then it would be likely that David creates Thousands of Eggs and Painstakingly Places them in the Cargo Hold.  I just cant really see this.

So then we have to ask WHY he would go to LV-223 instead first (there is Good Reasons) but then its what would he do, what would likely happen and the Scenarios you could come up with DONT seem to match some of the comments he has said regarding the Alien Covenant Sequel.

It could take David maybe Few Weeks/Months to go to LV-223, then he has Colonist and Black Goo and Engineer Ships to play around with.... if Davids Aim is to Mass Produce Xenomorphs this could be the Place to go...

But RS said the next movie would be more about AI and "what kind of a World would David Build" .... and it would not be about the Xenomorphs (this does not rule out any).

I cant help but wonder IF some Elements of his Plans for the Sequel have been incorporated into the Plot for his SCI-FI show Raised by Wolves  certainly if David dislikes Mankind, he has shown some reasons WHY but he has shown some reasons to find some GOOD in some Humans (Dr Shaw)  If David could Raise the Human Embryos then he could TEACH them whatever he wants, MOLD them to how ever he wants, set them what ever Rules and Religion and even have them see him as Creator and GOD... this fits with the Prometheus Themes.... and you could certainly see this FITS the Ego of David.

However to Raise a Colony from Birth would mean Decades and ONCE he gets to Origae-6 it only leaves us 10 years to ALIEN...  Unless he can find a way to Engineer the Embryo's so they can Grown Rapid...  What of the Adult Colonist?    Maybe their Fate is sealed... and become Eggs.

But as i have said this Plot is a bit unlikely due to how long it would take.... Unless the Arriving Parties arrive at a Colony Set up where David has laid Waste to the Adult Humans and only used a number of them to BUILD the Colony, and when any arriving Parties arrive we see that we have David and Children say aged 5-8 years old?  Then again such a Plot could make some see David being a Nazi if he is selectively trying to raise Children to follow his cause. Certainly if they all are made to dye their Hair like Lawrence of Arabia (if they are not Blonde).

If such a Plot is somewhat like what they could have been going for, then you could certainly see that Raised by Wolves is similar.

But it really is a case of NOT knowing for Sure what any Sequel would actually had been like.

I will refer you to this Topic Troubled Develeopment of Alien Covenant

in a Nut-Shell it comes down to If Disney would risk the Money, they was willing to pull the Plug on a Potential 6-9 more STAR WARS movies, certainly NO Anthologies and Spin Offs in LIGHT of the Disappointment with Solo.  and so if they are prepared to do that, then i think there is LESS anticipation for a AC Sequel, than a Obi Won movie etc... and so this should be a Concern for us ALIEN Fans.

The Best Hope would maybe come from Disney either Selling the Franchise Rights or License them out for as %

Indeed.....

I had mentioned on here a number of times over the years that the Production Company has the Greatest Influence on what happens regarding a Movie which can include Plot Direction and what the Movie should/should-not be about.

This sometimes can apply to some of the Criticism aimed at Ridley Scott, for example he was quite happy with Alien Engineers, but Powers that Be at FOX decided that maybe the Xenomorph Answers/Origins should be Toned down and the Movie (Prometheus) should not have any Xenomorphs....   Then when Prometheus was setting up to STEER away from ALIEN.... again the Powers that Be at FOX decided that actually the sequel should explain the Xenomorph Origins and introduce the Xenomorphs.

But in more of a relation to you Good Point... is that its about what would make Money... Disney would pursue what they feel would make the best return, this could mean listen to the Fans, but then it could also be decided by anyone in the Power to Be who thinks they got the better idea.

Fans... dont like some of the Direction Alien Covenant has shown us, and leads us down.. Maybe Disney could change a few things IF they think it would make more Fans Pay $$$ to see.....

But the other side to this is they would consider the Return on Alien Covenant and the Mess it is in at the Moment and indeed as you rightly said THEY could choose Choose to not even continue with a Sequel.

What fans should FEAR the most regarding the Franchise is that Disney are VERY Careful in what they make, and if they have COLD FEET over a Project they are likely to Can it....

We only need to look at the STAR WARS Franchise... at the time of SW EP7 it was rumored they would be making 12 Movies.. 6 that Tie in with the Originals (EP-7-9 and then 10-12) as well as 6 Anthology Movies.   Rogue One and Solo being the First with others (most rumored a Obi Won Spin Off).

But with Solo not doing well... they have canned any ideas of Spin Offs and its Rumored maybe EP9 will be the Last.

For Certain the Spin Off/Anthology are Canceled.... and i think depending on how EP9 does, would give us some indication if they Produce another Trilogy or Not.

IF we have Disney Quite happy to Drop Plans for such a LARGE Franchise due to the Disappointment of Solo then its even more unlikely they would take a Gamble with the Alien Franchise.

Maybe the only Hope is that they SELL or License Out the Alien Franchise to another Production to Finance and Produce.  I think ALIEN DAY next year 26th April 2019 will be a BIG indication of the Future because i feel if this comes and goes and after the 40th Anniversary we get NO News on any Potential Sequel... then i think it could not be looking Good for any Conclusion.

That obvious scene in Alien 3

The Beagle who got shot in John Wick although at the end he rescued the Pitbull puppy from dying. 

As a dog owner myself, I get really disturbed if a dog gets hurt. 

Maybe in a future Alien Reboot, we should get a dog equivalent to Jonesy

BigDave I also believe the planet mentioned by Ridley Scott was Origae 6, but who can tell exactly what will be next?

Who could have told the engineers would be wiped out by David or that David created the xenomorph in a Prometheus sequel?  

The interesting fact is how fast any rumours about an Alien Covenant sequel are spreading across the internet, so it's like people are in waiting. Even if Ridley Scott is involved in so many projects now and with Disney owning the rights over the franchise (which I totally dislike), there is hope that the sequel will eventually happen.

Scott Wampler at birth.movies.death confirms the script for Alien Covenant sequel is not yet written. 

"Yesterday, upon seeing the latest Alien: Awakening story, I was able to confirm - via a source who's certainly in a position to know - that there is no Alien: Awakening script at this time. This is not to say that things aren't happening behind-the-scenes on the Alien franchise (they definitely are), or that a Covenant sequel might not happen somewhere up the road. It is only to say that the rumors re: Logan's Alien: Awakening draft are inaccurate, and that it hasn't been written."

The EmpireMagazine does not actually say that such script exists, but what would have been like, most probably based on Ridley Scott's interviews on the topic.

Anyway, those surviving engineers could not have been from Planet 4, but ones who returned to Planet 4 after the events from Alien Covenant.

BigDave

Sorry but the fans don't own the franchise, even if this fact pisses them off. Disney does, and they will do anything they think will make profit. This can mean shelf-ing the Covenant sequel to make something else or because they don't want to lose money but it is there prerogative.

Maybe Scott might have something to say, but he is quite quiet about the subject right now.

I dearly hope not!

I think once you open that Bottle and let the Genie out, be it Reboot a Franchise, or Retcon some of the Movies... then you open up a Future for them to Chop/Change any movie.

We have not seen the LAST incarnation of Spider-Man i bet it will be rebooted again within 10 years...  Can we really allow this to happen with the Alien Franchise?

But now that Disney Own the Franchise Rights we cant rule it out....

If they wish to dabble in a Reboot, then i would be in favor of a AVP Reboot were they dont have to keep everything from the Franchise or Prequels as Canon, it can be a Alternative Outlook to both Franchises...

Depending HOW-WELL this does, they could then consider if a ALIEN Franchise Reboot or in Part would be wise.

I will agree the AI heavy Plot can come at a cost.... because we do indeed see a number of AI Movies, and also movies about Creating Hybrids (i watched SPLICE the other day). The longer a sequel takes to come out and the more of these kinds of movies that come out in the mean time, does mean by the time we get a Sequel a lot of people could just look at it as "oh just another one of those movies"

Another Problem with the AI Plot is the delay.... David is a Synthetic, he should not AGE and the longer they leave it the Harder it would be to have David look like a 35 year old Human Synthetic.... without having to use some CGI.

The longer the movie takes to be made, the more chances are of us seeing David as only a recovered Corpse that gets Re-activated like Bishop in Alien 3.

Regarding Davids creation, i think its a case of Curiosity and intrigue into what made the Engineers Creators, and how his Father saw himself as Godlike because he was a Creator.   David would have witnessed enough to know a Starting Point is to Infect Dr Shaws Reproductive Cells with the Black Goo... he would discover the Black Goo is a Splicing and Evolutionary Tool to Create Hybrids and Extract and Apply Traits of different Organisms in the Pursuit of combing these Traits to create something Perfect.

Regarding David and AI... i think RS is trying to show us that AI and Creation does not have to be simply a case of you have created a Robot.   They could have replaced the David Plot with a Replicant, or a Advanced Engineered Human (kind of same thing) it is still a AI, which our Xenomorph is also, even as far back as prior to the Prequels it was envisioned as a Engineered Organism.

But taking on board some of your comments about David etc, then indeed many may see him as NOT Human or a Life-Form but just a Robot.... but this is something they can CHANGE.

My Prometheus 2 was to cover the reason for Davids Creation which was that Weyland was attempting to Create the Perfect Vessel of which to UPLOAD a Human Soul, i touched up on Weylands attempts at Creating the Vessel as a Success, his attempts at Complex AI a Success... However to Upload the Memories, Emotions of a Human to Function as a AI  was a Failure...  it worked but the AI Program could not handle the Complex Emotions and would Deteriorate/Go Mad!  Thus leaving Weyland NO option but to turn to Dr Shaw/Holloways Pursuit of Gods as IF they are correct, and we can go MEET our Makers they offer him the Last Desperate Chance of IMMORTALITY which his attempts before via Science had Failed!

I can see David in future uploading himself into a Walter Body and maybe even further Systems.... indeed in part this is what i planned with Weylands Soul in my Prometheus 2/3

so looking at my idea of Weyland UPLOAD his Soul to a AI.. i think this would be Mankinds Ultimate Aim (for a few) to Cheat Death, as ONCE we can upload our Memories, Emotions and what makes us who we are to a Machine... then we could in effect become IMMORTAL.

But a Weyland Uploaded to a Synthetic would still be seen as a ROBOT!

Now let me throw a Curve-Ball what if we did a Vice Versa?

What if David could upload his Memories, Emotions into a HUMAN or another actual Living Organism?  Does he do this himself?  Do the Engineers or their Creators have a way to do this, do they GIFT David this or does he STEAL this?

Pinocchio becomes a BOY!

Would Fans still see HIM as a AI now? But they woulds still look at his Malice and Agenda and view this as him having NO Humanity or Nothing we can Relate to and Feel for him... (would he not be far off most of the Human Cast then lol ).

Would such a Change be seen as a GIFT?  Would David doing this have any Benefit, because he could become MORTAL, even if he is in a Super Hulked up LV-223 Engineer Body.  Accomplishing this would come at a HUBRIS because David could then be infected by his own CREATION or even the Black Goo.

But what IF he was tricked?  His AI Soul Transferred to what he thinks is a Evolution, but then Shock as he finds out he has been Transferred into a Mortal Body.... who could TRICK him, or who would Do such a Thing?

David would have to come to terms with being in a Organic and Mortal Body and the Horror that could present to him and maybe this could make him gain some Humanity or have us feel some Sympathy for him.

I am not saying this should be done... but your comments had allowed me to indeed think of HOW we could get David to be seen and Transcend to something that is not just  Robot...  Imagine if the Engineers make a Pact with him and claim they can Provide him a Superior Body, and Transcend his SOUL only to be given a somewhat Mortal Body or one that is a Amalgamation of a Synthetic Aspect, but also Biological that in Reality is just a Advanced Biological Vessel.... One that makes him Bio-Mechanical

ONE that allows him to become Victim to his OWN Creation and what a Hubris for him.

Certainly i can agree that the Xenomorph was one of the Main Elements of the Franchise, i do agree a little with Ridley Scott as far as prior to the Prequels we really had explored the Beast to a  Point that it was No Longer seen as big a Iconic Threat, this was not Helped in Part by the AVP Movies.... My Point being pretty much like how we have for example Jason Voorhees and the more Friday the 13th Movies we see the Less Impact he has compared to Originally.  You can add more Gore, you can add some Background as far as his History but all he pretty much does is go around and KILL people.  Thats pretty much the Nature of the Beast... now as far as the Xenomorph we see it Procreates via that Horrific Life Cycle that requires a Host, we see these Organisms seemed to go by Survival Instinct where the Objective is to Procreate, which they can do via a Queen Laying Eggs... We could introduce the Egg Morph and maybe that would Provide some Shock Value for a while.  But all the Xenomorph does is Capture some Hosts for Procreate, Kill to Protect its Hive, and Kill those not needed for a Host..  then REPEAT.  There is only so much Chest Busting, and Snarling and Killing that can be done before just as with Jason Voorhees it can get repetitive.

RS used some of those Phrases, but he did also make a few more, when he said that he thinks IT can go another few more rounds, he also said one time during Alien Covenant release that it has to be about HIM and you can EVOLVE HIM and i wonder if this was David? or the Xenomorph?

So the Beast is NOT quite cooked... but you have to be Careful on how you introduce and handle it, go the route of a AVP movies or Alien Resurrection or even ALIENS too often and eventually the Xenomorph may loose its SHINE and could become STALE.

The Problem is the Xenomorph is Heavily Associated with the ALIEN Franchise when you see the Prefix ALIEN while you may think about Ripley, Weyland-Yutani... the ALIEN references to that ALIEN Organism that was First Introduced to us on Screen from that Cargo of Eggs.  And eventually when working on the Prequels they decided they wanted to actually do something else, to expand upon the Franchise because there was more Elements in the Franchise than just the ALIEN (Xenomorph) and they chose to explore these and the Space Jockey (Engineers) and by even calling the Movie Prometheus they was trying to show us that while this connects to the Franchise/Universe they are wanting to explore a different Tangent.   The Problem is many knew that Prometheus was a kind of Prequel to ALIEN and set within the Franchise but could not separate it from ALIEN and so expected it as a Prequel to Explain the Origins and even maybe have Xenomorphs.  You cant blame those expectations, because indeed the earlier Prequel Draft was Alien: Engineers and by the fact it had a Alien Prefix you would expect more of a Alien Connection... and YES this is what Alien Engineers had done.

While Prometheus was not supposed to be a Literal Prequel and they intended to go off and steer away from the Xenomorph, by VIRTUE of the U-Turn to make a ALIEN prequel series.... they opened up that Door of Expectation Once again!

And indeed we was given a Origins Story (start of one) and indeed we got introduced to Eggs, Face Huggers, Chest Busters and the Big Chap... But they was NOT done enough Justice and DID-NOT have the same Impact that even the later Alien Movies did (inc AVP), the Neomorphs kind of had a different Impact because it was NEW. But the Xenomorph just failed to LIVE up to what it had Originally been.  Then we have the David creates IT, which makes it LESS Alien than what we could possibly had imagined.

With the IDEA behind the Prequels of the Xenomorph being just a Engineered Bio-Weapon  on One Hand this may reduce its Role a little, and make it seem Less of a Threat/Importance if its just a Wild Experiment by the Space Jockey, but RS had this idea even in the 90's and so without the Bio-Weapon Origins.... we have to ask HOW and WHERE do they take the Xenomorph, because there is only so much Queen + Eggs + Hosts that you can do.

There really was only maybe TWO options..

1) Expand on the Xenomorph, even as a Created/Engineered Bio-Weapon maybe they could show it Evolve, Become Sentient, and start to Grow in Intelligence and Scope... and GO Beyond those Primal Instincts that ASH admired.  Come to the Species then have its own Objective rather than to rely on Natural Carnal Instinct

Maybe this could have worked... we only have to look at David and his Evolution came about from the Humble Computers before David we had Mechanical Machines, Printed Circuits and Software Programs to allow Machines to complete Certain Tasks.... the Advancement of AI means we could eventually Create a AI as in a Machine and its Programing that can become more and more Advanced... UNTIL the Point it BECOMES Sentient..  and has its OWN Agenda... IT no longer just performs simple Tasks.. It becomes DAVID and his Twisted Mind and Agenda... IF all Machines become like him then we are DOOMED.

So we can take this and apply it to a Xenomorph, where they EVOLVE past the point of being a AI (Engineered Life-Form) that just acts by Survival and Procreation.

2) They keep the Xenomorph as just a Bio-Weapon, but were the LARGER thing to explore, is the Wicked, Cruel Intentions of WHOEVER would Create Such a Bio-Weapon and to what END.  And this is where Prometheus started to show us, by Virtue of the Black Goo and Experiments to show us clues to HOW the Xenomorph may had been created, but by not showing us THEM or how... but to delve into the Reasons WHY someone would Create Such a Horrific Beast.  And so the REASON for its Creation could be more Darker and Sinister than the Actual Bio-Weapon itself.

EBOLA is a Horrific Disease, a Mass Outbreak in a Large City of a Country like the USA or a Major City in Europe or Japan could potentially bring the Deaths of Millions. Especially if it INFECTS over a wide area before its determined where they Outbreak had came from.. and Imagine if it MUTATES so that it also be passed on as Easy as the FLU?  This would be Horrific and ONE of the Largest Threats to Mankind...

But as Horrific as it is...... WHAT could be more is if we Discover the Virus was a CREATION or a Bio-Weapon, intended to Wipe-Out the Population of a Certain Proportion of Mankind.  Its to WHAT END was this Creation  that becomes more Horrific than the Virus itself... was it a Accident, was it NOT supposed to Get-Out?  Or was it INDEED intended to Get-Out...  Its exploring the Reasons for the the Creation of such a Bio-Weapon and the Intentions of those who Created that become more Darker and Sinister than the Virus/Bio-Weapon Itself.

I am not saying EBOLA is a Bio-Weapon i am just using this as a example, for say like the Black Goo or Xenomorph  and the reveal of WHO/WHY it was Created as Potentially being more Sinister....   and this brought us to the U-TURN and CURVE-BALL that our Friendly Android David did so... and as a Hubris to Mankind for Creating something and allowing it Free-will and Knowledge.... because this also Fits with the Theme of the Engineers and Prometheus and so David was that STEP of the Ladder that RS thought... you know what, the Ultimate Hubris could be because of OUR own Creation and PLAYING GOD.

I get it and Potentially its Great.... IF for one moment we look at this as a Stand Alone Franchise and the Android Creates a Horrific Organism....  But as its the ALIEN Franchise... it diminishes the Iconic Xenomorph more, and more so its a reveal that is FAR from ALIEN as when we first saw that Derelict and its Cargo and Dead Pilot.

A lot of Damage has been done with the Xenomorph, do they carry on with OPTION 2 or try for a OPTION 1?  Its maybe a bit TOO-LATE to go for Option 1 but Option 2 is potentially Damaging but more so is something that goes against what MOST Franchise Fans feel the Xenomorph and its Origins should have been.

So they have to be CAREFUL how they use the Xenomorph and HOW to take it from here.... do we Abandon it before we do any more Damage, Relegate it to what it now appears a Engineered Bio-Weapon, that Survives on Instinct to Survive and Procreate and through this that it becomes such a Deadly Kill-Switch Bio-Weapon.

so that we can explore the other uses of its Origins... the Black Goo and what kinds of Horrors this can Produce, as the Black Goo Plot does allow for Massive Differences in Horrific Monsters and applications.

Option 1 and 2 could be combined if we introduce and apply these to another Race and its Agenda..   I just think it would take a MASTERSTROKE to carry on the Xenomorph if we are going to cover them over and over...  Unless Movies that Pan out like the AVP and Colonial Marines Games are what Fans would want to see.

It really is a case of HOW much can we keep showing the Xenomorph and HOW we are going to put it over, were those TWO Options are maybe routes we have to consider... stick with Number 2? or attempt to EVOLVE the Xenomorph as a Sentient Species just as David has become compared to a Basic Robot/Machine?

 A sequel we do not need. First one was classic, leave it alone

Just as something of an add, I think a possible way of treating David that I could go along with, would be that at some point during the crossing with Shaw, he interacted with Engineer technology and his programming had been infected and new codes, info and missions added. One such sub programme could have been to destroy the so called Engineer planet, and he was also given the knowledge of how to create a xenomorph through a data transference. The end result is that David had become Not David.

@BigDave

Quite a thorough run through of the fundamental flaws and gripes that have certainly been well aired since the release of AC. As to whether some of these gripes can be adjusted in the future remains to be seen. I do believe that there are some tricks that can be used to rectify some of the many issues raised and as time passes by, I now see that some of the minor gripes have the potential to become more problematic.

Since the release of AC the clock has been ticking and there have been some big changes in technology and the way movie viewers wish to see an end product. There have of course been changes in who is responsible for putting the end product on the market. With so many things having happened since the release of AC, I would say the nature of movie viewers has changed and will continue to evolve.

I am just going to focus on what is my biggest area of concern, that being the character of David. I am picking this out for special consideration because since the release of AC I have certainly seen more of an increase in stories wanting to pursue AI.

Hollywood likes to play it safe when it comes to making movies and has for a long time pursued tried and tested formulas. I think there is a danger however that there could be an oversaturation of AI inspired movies. If that does become the case, then would anyone really want to run out to watch a third instalment where the main Character is AI. Will the fire for such a movie have burned out?

One thing I would have liked to have seen introduced, would have been a completely new alien race. Something new and different.

Since the clock has been ticking, and continues to tick I think the David story should be ditched in the most part ( though not completely).

I am also one who does not believe that the beast is cooked. There is a lot to be said about the way a subject is presented, and when you have a director who appears to have lost interest in the main character of a franchise, then that’s just like making a Spiderman movie with no Spiderman, or a Godzilla movie with no Godzilla.

One sad truth that I think must be faced is that when Alien came out, it was put together by a specific and very talented team who are no longer present to form a collaboration that gave us the first movie, which was cutting edge, and very, very different and original.

I think they could have Miss-Interpreted Ridley Scotts comments.

First i would say YES some Engineers Survived the Genocide this is Evident from Davids Work, and his Notes.. Quite HOW he could take advantage of the Engineers is another mater, but they are NOT the same Brutes that was in Prometheus... But there is likely OTHER good reasons for how David could have ended up having his WAY with them.

Maybe some Engineers took up hiding on Planet 4?  But why would they be in hiding for 10 years? Indeed OUTSIDE would be a Risk to them from the Contamination, even after-wards we see the Spores, and Certainly any Surviving Engineers could encounter them when investigating and succumb to Neomorphs... Maybe also some of Davids Creations could have gave them a GOOD REASON to Hide.

The Question would be HOW do those Engineers Survive and at WHAT point does it become SAFE to seek Revenge on David which we can assume is after he has LEFT?

We need instead to pay attention to what else Ridley Scott said... he mentioned that those Engineers (well some) come and go to that place at certain intervals and when some return they Discover their Planet Laid to Waste...

It is HIGHLY likely that a Group of Engineers that have left Planet 4 in the Past Prior to Davids Arrival will return to Discover what has happened and NO DOUBT not be pleased with what they Discover.

Regarding the PLANET... again this can be taken as a miss-interpretation...  The PLANET... what does that mean?  LV-426? it could be LV-223, but it likely means Origae-6.

The Advent and other Messages David sends seem to show us that Planet 4 is located within the Zeta 2 Constellation or at least not far, but then Stars in a Constellation can be VERY FAR away from Each other..  What we need to look at is that the Covenant was about a Year (or 9-10 Months) into its Mission (from Our System) before the Ship Suffered the Damage from the Neutrino Burst.  This means that PLANET 4 is within a Years Travel from Earth, likely 10-11 Months, which is not FAR off how long the Nostromo would have taken to get from LV-426 to Earth some 18 years later.

I think its SAFE to Assume Planet 4 could be within a few Light Years of LV-426 but Certainly Weeks/Months away.

What Benefit would David have of going to LV-426?  We have to consider what RS had said at the time of Prometheus (yes Plot has changed) but indications are LV-426 is Baron... It was indicated that the Derelict likely left LV-223 but only ended up as far as LV-426. and i think regardless of the Plot Change, its a Good Chance that MAYBE the Derelict leaves LV-223 and ends up on LV-426 still.

I assume this based on IF David goes to Origae-6 and the Engineers are incoming, then we have to ASK how does a Engineer Ship end up going to LV-426?  we have to ask WHY  because IF the Engineers arrive at Planet 4 and then go to Origae-6 then its too much of a Coincidence that they then go to EARTH but take a path that takes them close to LV-426 the only Logical Ways to look at WHY are..

*The Engineers go to LV-223 to get a Bio-Weapon to use on David (and maybe Earth) but only end up on LV-426 this could be wishful thinking for Fans to think the Engineers will go there to get their own Xenomorph to bring into the Fight.

*The Engineers and/or David end up going to LV-223 to Mass-Produce and Evolve his Creation, but then when they (David or Engineers) attempt to leave they become infected with ONE of the Cargo.

THIS ^^^ is the likely Scenario.

We have to Remember RS has said it will require TWO movies before we get to ALIEN and the Next Movie WILL-NOT Focus on Xenomorphs but will be about AI and where David is going and WHAT kind of a World would he create.

I would assume this means David would NOT be going to LV-223/426 in the Next movie because this would lead to a more Xenomorph/Alien like Movie.  Also IF David goes there, it could mean the Engineers and Weyland-Yutani could arrive SOONER rather than later...

I could be WRONG however and things are subject to Change.

Something i can add to the main Topic and what could be the Fundamental Flaws of Alien Covenant are...

Firstly Prometheus (among other Flaws) DID-NOT show us the Xenomorphs Origin, it did not give us any answers to HOW those Eggs came to be on the Derelict.  It DID-NOT have any Xenomorphs or any real like-wise Monsters apart from the Deacon at the END... However it lacked the Xenomorph like Monsters rampaging and Killing the Human Characters be that the way Alien and Alien 3 handled a Single Alien Threat, or how Aliens and Alien Resurrection handled Multiple Alien Threats...    With Prometheus there was no such scenes, we only got a Kind of Face Hugger/Chest Buster Money Shot.  A number of Fans were disappointed at this and also a Prequel that DOES-NOT give Answers to ALIEN but only loosely connecting the Xenomorph was likely a Bio-Weapon Created by the Space Jockey.

What it did do was give us a insight into WHO the Space Jockey Race are and their Agenda/Purpose by introducing the Engineers Plot.  And a Sequel looked like it would cover this more and steer away at least from anything related to ALIEN.

Fast Forwards to Alien Covenant and RS/FOX deciding to actually give the Fans a more Alieny Movie that will START to address the Xenomorph Origns and Introduce them back into the Franchise and Eventually via Sequels could lead us to the Back Door to ALIEN (maybe showing us HOW the Derelict Event happened).

This set up the HYPE TRAIN....

Those not happy with NO Answers regarding the Xenomorphs Origin, Purpose and HOW it ended up on the Derelict, could be in for a TREAT as it appears we are FINALLY on the road to give those fans those Answers.  We would be seeing Xenomorphs again, we would be seeing something NEW too, we would be getting a Scene that would TOP the Original Chest Buster and a Movie that would Scare the $"%"& out of people!!!!

What is there NOT to look forwards to?

Concerns may have started with those who actually DID-NOT mind the lack of Answers and Xenomorphs, and were looking forwards to seeing where David and Shaw would end up and WHO they would FIND and Discover more about the Engineers, while touching upon the Themes from Prometheus, while maybe getting some Answers to what was going on in more detail on LV-223.

But it seemed we are off to where those Engineers came from and Hope we may find out more about them, and we would at LEAST have David to expand upon..  Fans were Curious what Role and How Much would Dr Shaw have.

Marketing Machine was in Full Swing, we then got Trailers, few Preview Posters (Egg, Xenomorph) and other Material and a VERY Deceptive Poster.

Then it came TIME!!!!

And this is where it all started to go Wrong!

Firstly i would like to say that Characters in Movies Can and often Need to make some Bad Decisions in order to drive the PLOT... No Horror, Thriller or many Sci-Fi Movies would not be the same if in Retrospect the Characters could foresee the Errors they would make and look at them as the Fans would after the Movie or During... (dont go outside in Dark, dont open that Box etc etc).  But some Movies can have people doing more Stupid Things... But this is NOT really a Major Problem of Alien Covenant.  The other Movies in the Franchise people got KILLED from making some Mistakes, some Silly..   Little Qualms like WHY they never worn any Space Suits and similar could have reasons but reasons that would take up more Screen Time and so are Neglected... on this account the Covenant Mission and Crew could be Forgiven for making Mistakes compared to the Prometheus Crew.

Next we have to look at Characters... and sadly as with Prometheus maybe more so, we simply DID-NOT get Good enough Character Development and Execution, and only Oram, Faris, Karine and Lope (to a degree) we could related to their Purpose and their Reactions... the rest of the cast were VERY Forgettable (David/Walter Excluded) but then we also have to look at the MAIN Characters, and Daniels and Tennessee basically had little impact as far as what Main Characters should be, considering their longer Screen Time and Purpose... Imagine if those Characters had a Short Screen Time as Faris and Oram?  They would be Totally Forgettable.  Does it raise Excitement and Anticipation to what happens with Daniels and Tennessee next?

With Dr Shaw it was different because while Flawed, we knew SHE was off to meet our Makers and GET ANSWERS. But Daniels and Tennessee are just off to some Planet to Build Log Cabins.  I can see they had tried to Flesh Out Characters by having a LONGER Build up like ALIEN had, but we just never got the same Depth/Execution as we had with ALIEN, the Characters in Alien Covenant did have (a good portion of them) as much Screen Time as say the Top 4-5 (Air Time) in the other Movies but they just DID-NOT draw us in as well as the First 3 Movies did.  The Viral Marketing was to make us connect more with the Characters, but this was NO USE to those who DID-NOT see them.  And to add them into the Movie would have affected the Pacing of the Movie....

Which Brings us to the MAIN Culprit....  The Limited Run Time, compared to HOW MANY things it was trying to cover.   The SLOWER Buildup was needed to trying and introduce us more to the Characters who are going to Mostly End up DEAD. This took Quite a lot of Screen Time, before we got to Finally Land on Planet 4 and Explore.

Leaving us a Run-Time were certain Plot Points had to be Forced and Rushed and others passed by or Brushed under the Carpet.   Contributing Potentially too...

*The Quicker Gestation Period of the Xenomorphs (this varies in other Movies especially AVP ones).

*The Very Quick Growth of the Organisms (Bare in mind Neomorph is different) but then Growth Rates vary again within the Franchise.

*The Limited Screen Time of the Organisms (Neomorph and Xenomorph) this was simply not enough to Justify them...

*The Potential for Not having any time to Deal with any LIVE Engineers or more explanation to what happened, never mind MORE about their Species (Prometheus Fans must have felt Cheated) Plus Engineers who seemed FAR less Godlike and Awe inspiring than Prometheus.

*No Time to Explore what happened to Dr Shaw Between the Crossing and when SHE met her END... it appeared things seemed ok between her and David prior to Arriving at Planet 4

If they tried to add depth to each of the above by giving Each Just a Extra 5 Minutes, it would add to the Running Time, and more so with a extra 10 Minutes Each of Engineers, Dr Shaw (Flash Backs or Explanations by David) Never mind showing us a extra 10 Minutes of Xenomorphs/Neomorphs.

The Bigger Focus was upon WHO would Create the Xenomorph and WHY and WHO had caused the End to Dr Shaw and the Engineers.....  The Focus was on David and some Creation/Philosophy Themes from Prometheus.

I can understand WHY to a degree, but so many Parts of the Plot had been laid to Waste, which was for Reasons i mentioned above... But as David also Killed the Engineers and Dr Shaw... this had upset some Fans... as HE is now to Blame for WHY we dont get more of Dr Shaw and the Engineers.

A portion of the Plot Seemed to be around HOW/WHY he created the Xenomorph rather than showing us the Xenomorph in Detail... the Reveal that HE created it again is something that has upset Fans and maybe caused a Dislike for his Character.

These Disappointments seem to Over Shadow the Reasons why we are being shown WHY he has done what he has done, but this REVEAL is Totally against what Most Fans would have Hoped for Regarding the Xenomorph Origins.

They also seemed to Over Shadow the Interaction and Differences between David and Walter, and how they connect to the Prologue with Weyland and HOW they fit in with the Themes of the Prometheus and Engineers, for some Fans these Connections and intentions are somewhat has hard to Follow as the Engineers Connections to the Xenomorph (Black Goo) etc in Prometheus

There are some Scenes with David were he comes across a bit Cringe-worthy and Bizarre, compared to his Quirks in Prometheus.   The Flute Scene! But there is a meaning to it and connection, but it came across a bit Homo-Erotic, Bizarre and maybe having a Innuendo.

It seems a lot has been SACRIFICED in this Movie to make it be around David, where some thought the Xenomorph would have a Larger Role and be about the Xenomorph, Sadly for those who expected this.. it was not the case and i am sure the David Creates the Xenomorph due to Certain Issues (some Fans Overlooking the Prometheus Themes/Philosophy) is something that DOES-NOT sit well with most fans NO-MATTER how RS wishes to Spin it. (Myself i get it).

The Execution of Davids Character, the Emphasis on just HIM is something that certainly can put a lot of Fans OFF his Character and Direction... One Big Gripe that the Xenomorph is now his Creation and THUS there is NO Eggs in the Derelict or even a Derelict on LV-426 some 17 years prior to ALIEN

There are bound to be other GRIPES too.. which kind of have explanations, well could have.  These Range from HOW the Engineers lacked the Bio-Technology for the Most Part compared to those in Prometheus never-mind touching on some Gripes from Prometheus to HOW those Engineers and the Juggernaught look NOT-QUITE like the Derelict and Space Jockey...

The Appearance of the Xenomorph also was not something that pleased some Fans, Especially the Chest Buster.. this Xenomorph looked unlike that from ALIEN.

Does this mean THEY are not the Actual Xenomorphs? wishful Thinking it would seem..  There are differences, BUT as RS has mentioned we are NOT-QUITE there yet regarding the Xenomorph.  Which implies that Davids Creations will go through some Changes before we get to the CARGO on the Derelict, Changes which SHOULD include HOW/WHY/WHEN does the Xenomorph become more Bio-Mechanical.  The Xenomorph in ALIEN does look a EVOLUTION of Davids Creation... a Problem HOWEVER is that the 1979 Chest Buster and Gestation Rates/Process seem like a DE-EVOLUTION

The Face Hugger/Gestation (not forget Lope) and Chest Buster (plus Growth) seem more Effective in Davids Xenomorph, compared to that of the Franchise.. But the ADULT in the Franchise seems more Effective/Evolved than Davids Adult Xenomorphs.

So ALAS... there are a Number of Problems with Alien Covenant and the Potential Direction it is taking us.

Just sent in new content on the HNE article regarding this Empire Classics, not knowing you already did daliens...