Comments (Page 310)
Latest comments by Alien fans on news, forum discussions and images!
Great topic once again - upvoted! I did not know that was the name given to her. Love that I keep learning new things this many years onward!
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Same! Covenant debuted only a tiny fraction of the remarkable work Matt and Dane provided. A truly awesome addition to any fan's collection. Will be great to see what other references and theories we can muster from its contents!
'I appreciate it more and more as time goes on'
Just watched 'ALIENS'...OMG! sooo 1980's! The hair...clothes..dialog.
A L I E N has yet to feel dated to me. Timeless dare I say?
Alien3 works...EXCEPT for the CGI. Eegads.
Alien:R is good....another couple of years it might seem very 90's...but it still feels neutral.
I really wonder how Prometheus and A:C will fare in 30 years!
Tattoos on Fifield will probably give away the year of filming....
Alien:C ?
"so the STAR-MAPS where saying "This is where we Created you" its not a invitation, its not the location of where they (Engineers) came from and Certainly not the Location of a Secret Bio-Weapons Death Camp..."
"And i think it is interesting to wonder HOW and IF Michelle's work will answer this..."
That works for me! Thanks.
No more derailing.....
Go Michelle!
if the Engineer could Shrug off a Space Shotgun Blast, but then a Blow with a AXE reduces his effectiveness, may seem odd..
The axe scene in particular should have been in the movie cut. That scene also showed the Engineer had a level of appreciation or admiration for humans as it looked around at a screen, books and a chandelier instead of just being a brawler. It added depth to the Engineer and would have gone a long way in a short amount of time in the movie.
As far as consistency of shot gun vs blunt force trauma- there are plenty of instances like that in other movies.
This is definitely on my Shopping List for Xmas ;)
Sometimes its a case of running time.... and Cuts have to be Made, i can understand the Frustration when say a extra 25-40 Minutes of Actual Shot Footage that gives more Answers is Cut... because this shows the WHOLE say 2Hrs30 Min or so had more Answers, where as if they KNEW they would have to cut a movie down to 2 hours before shooting, then surely fitting some of those answers into the Final Draft that would take 2 hours of Screen time would have been best.....
Sadly it does not all ways work like that, they also know that those who wanted more answers/clues would PURCHASE a DVD/Blu-Ray if it had some of these in the Extra Material. Its a way to make more cash from us..
some Cuts come from Pacing, and having to Cram the Movie into a ideal Theatrical Running Time, some Cuts are made because after Production/Shooting they have a Change of Idea/Plan as to how they want the Movie to be Interpreted and some things kept would contradict the route they now intend. some things they cut because they wish to Expand or Explain them in a different light in a Sequel.
With Prometheus a number of Scenes had to be Cut, because RS was not pleased with the Engineer vs Dr Shaw scene as he felt, it made the Engineer look a bit Underwhelming (not taking into account the AXE Shot) but then if the Engineer could Shrug off a Space Shotgun Blast, but then a Blow with a AXE reduces his effectiveness, may seem odd.. Another thing to consider is if RS had decided to make the Engineers just purely be Aggressive $%£$^$% who have little care for Mankind.
Regardless of the Reason... Once RS had shot the Engineer Scene again (while Ian Whyte was still in Burns Make up) so that he just Barged in the Lifeboat to aggressively seek out and put a END to Dr Shaw. (The Burn could now be concluded as from the Crash). Then a few Scenes of the Engineer with NO Burns after the Crash HAD to be CUT.
The only option when looking HOW they had changed their mind to show us how they now intended to show the Angry Engineer. Would be Re-shoots of him leaving the Juggernaught and Walking/Running across the Surface of LV-223. Rather than Re-shoot such a Scene, they felt it could be left out... the other scenes like Longer Engineer in the Life-Boat and the Scene of him looking at the Books, would all have Portrayed the Engineer as being Intrigued with Humanity. And i think RS had changed his mind about this.
"Why would the Engineers share their pathogen producing planet/system with Earthlings/cave people?!"
I think this is a interesting Question, one which i look forwards to Michelle's interpretation. I dont really intend to give to much towards what i felt about it, so as to no De-Rail this Thread.
We see with Prometheus that they felt (well Dr Shaw did) that it was a invitation, but latter she realizes and says that we were WRONG. There are groups who feel it was a INVITATION and others who feel it was a TRAP
I feel it was NEITHER... i think we have to look at our Engineers as a Race who Created us and had visited us, but they DID-NOT reveal all their Knowledge and Secrets to us. Some Knowledge was just not intended for us, as we are close to THEM.. it is their Advanced Knowledge that makes them Superior. The Fear of what this Knowledge would do if it Falls into the Wrong Hands is certainly Good Reason for those beings to Eradicate us so that we NEVER reach the Stars.
So its not a Invitation because i think those beings back then had never intended us to leave this place of our Free-Will. We are on this ROCK Light Years from their Home-world. If you are stranded on a Island and you can not swim far and have no idea how to build a boat, then you can not arrive at other Lands. Those who Stranded you there have no Concerns or Worries that you could ever leave this place... because in Hubris they feel you would never Self-Learn the Knowledge and Tools to be able to leave that Island.
I think Forbidden Knowledge that plays the Key Role. And Hubris.. WHOM and to WHAT end did those Engineers Teach Mankind, how much had we been taught? was it too much, or as a Creation in their image is it such a Hubris to think without their interaction we would just and always be CAVE-MEN? But as we are similar to them, there is that Potential to Evolve to what we are now, was it a case if just that LITTLE bit of Knowledge passed, had started the Ball Rolling?
I think LV-223 was a Sandbox, a Safe-place to Create/Evolve Life away from their Home-world and to then introduce to various worlds when they are pleased with the Results. A Nursery, a Greenhouse if you would.
so the STAR-MAPS where saying "This is where we Created you" its not a invitation, its not the location of where they (Engineers) came from and Certainly not the Location of a Secret Bio-Weapons Death Camp...
But at some point the place indeed Turned into such a Place, the Question is WHEN/HOW/WHY. And i think it is interesting to wonder HOW and IF Michelle's work will answer this.
Personally, I find my crisitism of Covenant has lightened since I first saw it. I appreciate it more and more as time goes on. However, I still prefer Prometheus. ;)
Had the book on pre order. It is now in transit, set to arrive tomorrow!
Dane & Matt's work on the movie was just outstanding. So deserving of it's own tome (or two in this case, even better!!)
Cannot wait to scrutinise the detail & textual info they lavished on their illustrations!
Great interview, thank you for the share daliens
Well i really look forwards to your ideas/interpretations of Prometheus and where to go NEXT.... the movie left a lot of ambiguity and a large BOLD Plot, which leaves a large number of ways to interpret, and this is the GREAT thing about Prometheus, its something Lindeloff is quite proud of, the discussion and debate that comes from how the Movie was portrayed.
The Problem is choosing which Path/Answers to go, and as a anyone working on any Sequel would find, its hard to then choose which path, and wonder how many of the Fans would be pleased with this path.... Why it is such a Shame that Ridley Scott did not get to just Proceed with what he wanted and if it does not please every fan, so be it as you cant please them all.
So with your interpretation it would be interesting, as you are not tied down with having to think "WHAT" the Fans want, but are free to explore HOW you interpret things and how you would explore them... I am really intrigued to reading your Story and i cant wait until its release.
"The point about Prometheus is it was an ideas movie within the same Universe as ALIEN. The concept was the proposition of an Engineered creation and the story was how it went wrong and one of the side effects of that wrongness is the creature."
Indeed i think that is one of the Big Aspects of the Franchise, which is What Purpose was the Creation of Humanity and other Life, and then HOW/WHEN/WHY did those Experiments on LV-223 Fit into this... This was one Mystery that May/May Not had been covered in a sequel. But certainly to a degree we needed the reasons for Creation to be explained, and then shown what kind of Hubris comes from this.
"whether sub creation is a sin oh and what is sin in an Engineered creation."
Indeed a continuation of the first comment, it would be interesting to see what causes a Sin/Fall. And how much is this connected to Biblical/Paradise Lost Sin/Fall and indeed the Prometheus one.. is Creation a Sin? or is interfering with the Purpose of Creation so that it behaves/performs and has a different outlook that Permitted/Intended the Sin/Fall.
"Elizabeth in that beautiful scene left out of Prometheus talks about the story she was told as a child of the Sun being lonely so we were created. She is also inspirational on the matter of we are not alone"
Again and the rest of this Paragraph you wrote are all very interesting, to ponder WHY would a God Create Life is important and how close is this to WHY would a Human Create Life (Weyland) i hate to think the explanation is as Holloway says to David "because we could" and also what is of interest with the Dr Shaw Scene is how her Father says those African Villages dont need his help as their God is Different. "based on the notion there is one God for one people" certainly interesting to explore HOW/WHY we ended up with different interpretations of Gods, and then finding out the TRUE purpose and Hierarchy of the Gods.
"However I like your point about what are they for. The assumption in the movies seems to be Mankind, Dogs, Ox. They could be for some thing really significant. Unlike the mutagen the cycle is very ritualistic that might be important. "
I think it could be interesting to explore this, because before we got the whole GODS aspect/plot. We did have some unused elements from STARBEAST which was the Ritualistic Procreation of a Alien Race who required Sacrifice, and also HR Giger's Concepts, which showed that these Bald Humanoids, were Sacrificing their own kind to allow for the Procreation of such a Horrific Beast. So its interesting to ponder what SYMBIOSIS this implied.
Finally the Concept of Paradise, this is interesting to explore what way this would have been/could have been explored in context to the Franchise, there are many views of what Paradise is... is it HEAVEN were we go when we Die? Not Really perhaps... because the Concept of Heaven is NOT where we all go... its only where those deemed Worthy Go, be it those who keep to the Rules/Appease their Gods, those who have done a Good Deed/Died in Glorious Battle.. a Common theme of Paradise is it is a PLACE that only a Specific Proportion of Persons can go to. Its interesting to see how this would be explored, it does not have to be shown as indeed a Literal Spiritual Realm of the Dead... but i do think that a Specific place that only a selection of those deemed Worthy are allowed and i guess its to ponder WHO and WHY
The other Paradise is the Cradle of Creation, a Place where GOD/Gods had Created a Paradise for their Creation (Mankind) to Dwell and be watched over, that they end up being kicked out of after Disobedience. I think exploring this and a Paradise that is intended for only the Worthy/Chosen in context to how this fits with the PLOT of the Engineers and Creation is something that is interesting to Exlplore.
All of these things i have replied to, in context to some of your comments are things we maybe could have been shown HAD they been allowed to go where PROMETHEUS was heading.
And i am truly looking forwards to your interpretations and take on such a subject, as i know how Passionate you are and how much Thought goes into your interpretations that i cant wait to Read your work ;)
"Nothing will top seeing a film in a massive theater the way it was intended."
Word.
Good point G. H. (Gman).
Agreed dk. Include the vital info in the film.
"That is how I feel about things like the Crossing, Phobos, and the Last Supper. Those things had more character development than the whole fucking AC. Something is seriously wrong when you have more character development in the extras than the movie."
Great summation of my feelings above Thoughts_Dreams.
I still loved the film but having to search out basic understandings after the film isn't for everyone (the other 98%).
"easy mistake to think Romani come from Romania as actually Romania did have a high Population of Romani Gypsies compared to other European Places, but they also had high concentrations in other countries"
This is what i put, and what i mean is there is a common misconception that the Romani Gypsies come from Romanian and i was saying while it has a high % compared to other places, there are other Countries who also have high % of Romani Gypsies (i failed to mention the other countries) but i put my comment as to indicate that the Romani Gypsies to not Originate or have the Greatest Number as a % from Romania but its still a misconception that many still have that they come from Romania.
I dont think that being a Nazi has to do with killing off In-superior Species/Races, as well i guess even considering a certain Creed/Race/Religion as Superior to others and forming some kind of Cultural Racial Hierarchy were you place your own Race/Species at the Top and other In-superior would also be deemed as acting in a Nazism Fashion. But i guess this could imply that David as far as his interpretation and view of Mortal Humanoids could be seen as similar to what Nazism is.
But would Humans who view Synthetics to but just Serve and not be classed as any kind of Citizen never mind 2nd Class, would this not make Humans have similar Nazism Tenancies to Synthetics? If this does not apply because they are only ROBOTS then we can ask how could a ROBOT then be compared to Hitler or a Nazi. But then if we look at the other side of the coin as Biodegradable was saying in HOW David cant be compared to a Nazi, because he is a Creation of ours and he is not like a Race/Creed of Humanity, on the other hand he also said David is more Human and so is like a extension of Humanity to i guess the Nazism can be applied to him.
I just dont think this was the intention of RS, but then i guess we could look at many Sci-Fi Franchises as see there could be Nazism Concept to them... be it the Terminator Franchise or to a degree the Matrix too... Even Star Wars has the kind of Nazism Concept to a degree as far as the Empire, but i guess not fully if we view Nazism as purely about a Group that believe in a Cause that they are Superior of their Species and view all other Races/Cultures as in-superior.
I think RS idea was to show the differences in levels of Creation and Species, in a different light but i guess our Engineers Culture and Agenda could fit Fascism/Nazism too.
I'll figure out how to make a Gif file and try to create one for you Weyland Walter.
I am so looking forward to seeing this. Thank you daliens.
I had problems before but use Chrome which is better. I have noticed a few issues in the last week or so of having to log in on different forums. If I hover over the login/password, they appear and I can hit log in. I just figure admin is working on things to fight spammers and such.
BigDave you are also muddling the water with the high concentration of the Romani population in Romania, which is somewhere between 3 and 8%. As is it is in Hungary, Bulgaria, Serbia, etc.
"I think the other aspect with David is that he then considers that his Species if you would (thus Walter too) are the intended, natural order of Creation who NOW should be the Rulers, and Inherit the Galaxy, as opposed to our Dying Species and our Dying Creators the Engineers." Can't you see, it does not matter if he is superior or not, but annihilating intelligent life because you proclaimed that you are superior makes you a Nazi and ends all the discussions about what is intelligence and such. Not to mention that he only proclaim that Humanity (if we are in the same continuity still alive after 300 odd years) and the Engineers are dying races.
However many civilizations through-out history recorded encountering that cigar, so for early civilizations that seemed important. The chain smoker is a lost memory and what should you do about it? Of course trying to cheat death leads to disasters but going through even though you consider it foolish also leads to the same place (as you hire people like Fifield and Milburn). Yet this foolish move give David his freedom (yet why say this was foolish if you had a plan to escape).
So my conundrum is what is what to do in this situation.
My view on AC?
I think Prometheus tried to expand the Franchise by introducing us to the Accident Aliens Theory, in that Mankind is a Creation of Ancient Alien beings who came to Earth and continued to come back and Evolve us and Teach us, and that all our Mythos/Religions are based of Actual interactions with these Alien would be GODS.
What they did was take this, and apply it to the Space Jockey Race, so that these Engineers are these would be GODS... It was a Bolt Plot that left many Questions and things to explore in relation to Creation, the Reason for our Creation and more of WHO these would be GODS where.
But within context to this, it raised and had a number of Themes about the Order of Creation, about Sub-Creation, Hubris of Creation and granting Creation Knowledge/Free Will.
Its the Themes of that Paragraph that was most important as far as where RS was taking us, and these themes apply to the Engineers, and relationship to us, but also to their Creators and to other Creations they maybe created, but then on this Ladder of Creation if then applies to us and our Creations... its a Continuous Arc/Ladder that maybe repeats the Same Theme/Hubris.
HOWEVER such a Plot Distracted from ALIEN, and Prometheus never gave us the other Big Question, which was HOW/WHEN/WHY and WHERE was the Xenomorph Created, we never got a Spoon Fed Answer and so this Question would continue to be raised by some Fans.
Prometheus loosely Danced about the Origins and Reasons for it.. But it was not enough to satisfy the Fans, and FOX ultimately would have felt that a direction to cover the Engineers and answers those BIG Questions (Creation) in context to Humanity and Engineers, but also who created the Engineers and also showing us a continuation of Creation with David.... I guess FOX felt that deeply exploring these would distract from ALIEN and not give us the Answers that Many Fans had maybe thought a Prequel would give... Which is WHY/HOW/WHEN was the Xenomorph created and HOW/WHEN/WHY did those Eggs end up on the Derelict.
So it seems the Themes they wished to Explore could still be explored and told from the POV of David, because it looks like what we have is a Continued Repeat of the Same Creator/Creation Rebellion then Sub-Create Theme.
so we never had to go and Explore the whole GOD's in detail aspect, we can relate the Tale in Context to David and Humanity.
The Curve-Ball they threw in with Davids Reasons for Creating the Xenomorph and intended destruction of Humanity is maybe not FAR of the intention the Engineers or a Faction of them had taken as Originally Intended... and so now having David assume this Role of Creator of the Xenomorph and his Reasons, maybe FIT with the reasons they intended anyway.. regarding Engineers well those on LV-223.
Its a interesting Curve-ball but one that while it fits with the Arc RS may have intended, its something that NOW having David be the Creator, instead of Creating his OWN Variant, is something that on one hand FITS the Arc RS is going for with David/Creation, but on the other is something that has SPLIT the Fanbase more than the Reveal about WHO the Space Jockey Race are.
This PLOT Change has not pleased most fans, the direction to not Explore Dr Shaws Agenda and see more of these Engineers, may also have displeased some Prometheus fans. But the Themes/Answers could be handled with the Change of Direction without having to Directly go and spend a movie about these Ancient Wicked Gods.
I think many Flaws in AC came down to trying to Cater for every kind of Fan, by offering a little to appease everyone but ULTIMATELY not offering enough to please any of them to a great degree.
Alien Covenant was not LONG enough to pull this off, hence many Scenes/Plots had to be rushed/sped up which meant less time with the Xenomorph, than Alien or Aliens, a Forced/Quicker Gestation. Offering something NEW (Neomorphs) while trying to salvage some of the Themes of Prometheus, while also giving us a Slow Build up (like Alien) to engage with Characters.
Sadly within the Confines of 2 hours they could not do ANY of it Justice, and its Evident the Emphasis was on David, and all other things had to be 2nd due to the Limitation of running Time.
The whole Gypsies Debate is not connected to AC, there is NO such thing as One Kind of Gypsies but there are the Romani who indeed originated from Indian/Pakistani regions and its a easy mistake to think Romani come from Romania as actually Romania did have a high Population of Romani Gypsies compared to other European Places, but they also had high concentrations in other countries. so i guess its a easy mistake to make a connection between Romani Heritage being from Romania. And while Gypsies have broadened out to various sects, they all do have the same Romani Heritage but then you also have the Irish Gypsies Heritage that while some things are similar, they are totally different.
Regarding David, i dont think the principle should be taken as being too close to Nazism this certainly would not had been the intention by Ridley Scott... his intention is more to show us and get us to ask..
What donates a LIFE-FORM
What is Intelligent Life what is Spiritualism, what makes us have Religion and Worship, and so what is Humanity, and what is a Soul.... and he is trying to show us that all of this does not necessarily come because we are a Creation of a Divine being that possess a Eternal Spiritual Soul granted to us by our Magical Creator.
So he is asking what is Creation, what constitutes Intelligent beings, we have Replicants who are Organic Androids to a degree, they are Organic like Humans, but are deemed not Humans and not have the same rights as Humans, BR raised Questions regarding Humanity/Soul, Empathy etc in context to the difference between a Human and a Replicant... and with RS Synthetics in the Alien Franchise, he is proposing to us what really makes a Human (Biological Machine) different to a Artificially Created Machine/Intelligence.
with David its the case that he has been given more Free-will and Emotions, than a Robot should have, and so he is walking that LINE between being very close to Human. But also that David is more Advanced, more Superior to Humans in many ways, yet is Created and Treated as not being Equal... so we see that David would view himself as Superior and also Mankind is Flawed and Not worthy of the Role we have (to rule over the World, and how we affect/treat all other Life).
The Bare Bones of what RS was doing, is something that we can see with the PLANET OF THE APES Franchise...
So it comes down to the Implications of KNOWLEDGE being passed on to a Lesser Race/Life-form and the implications of this Advanced Knowledge and when these Life-Forms then become Sentient.
How does a Ape view the world, its kind and Mankind? But the Plot of POTA (especially new Franchise) shows that the Experiments on Caesar that lead to him becoming more Human (Knowledge, Speech, Emotions) where we can then ask would such a Intelligent Evolved Primate should be viewed as a we should a Human, or do we consider them to be no more than Apes regardless of the Evolution to their Intelligence, emotions, ambitions and view of life.
So here in that Plot we see Humans (some) do-not view these Evolved Primates as our Equal, but as Lesser, this is similar to how Humans view Replicants and Synthetics in Blade Runner and Alien... and what RS is doing is also to get us to consider that the Engineers view Humanity the same as we would view Replicants, Synthetics, and Evolved Intelligent Apes (POTA). But then its to also look at how would a Sentient Replicant, Synthetic and Evolved Ape look at their Existence and their place in the World... They would see they deserve more than the limited view that Mankind has about them.... WHY cant they have the Rights that their creators (ones who granted them the Gift of Higher Intelligence) and so Rebellion occurs.
If we Evolved Apes like we see in the Planet of the Apes, to the point that they are just as intelligent as Humans and yet they view how Cruel, and Egotistical our Race is, they could start to view that the World would be better off without such a Corrupt Race as Mankind. They would consider their own Survival against the view that Mankind could see them as a Experiment in Hubris that needs to be Undone...
This is likely how the Engineers view Mankind, the same as Mankind view Replicants or the Apes in the Planet of the Apes.
With David it goes further because he would see himself as his kind (Synthetics) as being every bit of what Mankind is but MORE because they (Synthetics) are Superior in nearly every way, they lack the weakness of aging/disease that Mankind has.... the only thing they lack is a SOUL and RS was pushing us to Question what is a SOUL.
If a SOUL is only the Spiritual Being that lives inside us and lives on when we DIE... if there is NO SUCH thing, then its case of what do we really have in terms of a Soul that a AI like David cant have? And then also i think RS was pondering and pushing us to consider that a AI like David, and what IF he could Upload his AI Soul to a Storage, and then Transfer this onto a New Body or it remain in the Network of Computer Systems... then to a degree the AI has a AFTERLIFE and maybe we Dont.
I think the other aspect with David is that he then considers that his Species if you would (thus Walter too) are the intended, natural order of Creation who NOW should be the Rulers, and Inherit the Galaxy, as opposed to our Dying Species and our Dying Creators the Engineers.
Cave Paintings
This will be my final post for some time as I want to focus on preparing to write the first part of the story from the 25th to 27th December.
My point about the Cave Paintings was not about what they are intended to convey, which I will answer, but the notion that Ancient Man was capable of articulating a complex idea with seemingly limited materials whereas Modern Man plain misunderstood it. The reason is about Hubris.
Although the Isle of Skye relief naturally reflects the values of articulation of 35,000 ago as do the other more recent pictograms reflect their contemporaneous iconography what is extra ordinary is the capacity to understand such complex information which suggest early man had a clearer view than later man. He had greater clarity and in the end wisdom.
Elizabeth a product of a particularly evolved religious faith immediately jumped to the conclusion it was an invitation.
Peter Weyland even more absurdly went along with the notion against his better judgement, which was reflected in Meredith and Davids view both of whom according to Damon thought the mission was utter folly. People believing want they want to believe.
The viewer was told during the movie what the relationship between the Engineers and Mankind was and Damon reinforced it decisively in his Script Writers commentary.
Given the relationship between the Engineers and Mankind it was neither an invitation or a warning it was simply a recording. Sometimes a Cigar is just Cigar.
As a piece of story telling at the front end of the movie it is a perfectly executed beat and Logan and Noomi nail the sense of wonder and excitement we want to crack on with them as she sheds a tear and takes his hand.
Ironically the film is telling us do not project or overthink things. If you do train wrecks will occur a point made by Logan in the recent interview I shared, which perfectly mirrors the way modern audiences over think somethings and miss others.
Certainly something to add to my Xmas Wish List ;)
Thanks for sharing the Interview too daliens ;)
Sorry I don't have with Chrome.
what I don't like personally is the NEED for all this bonus material just to get answers. that's what the film is supposed to do. I begrudge shelling out more money on novelisations and dvd's with extra discs just to think to myself 'ok so that explains this, but why didn't they just put that in the film?'. I get the studio wants to make more money but to lessen a film just to save the answers for the extras dvd or novel is a big middle finger to the fans imo.
I do buy as many of the expanded universe novels as I can as their awesome but I bought the ac prequel novel n put it down after 50 odd pages n wont be picking it back up.
For UK entrants only:
Thanks to Titan Books GamesRadar has 10 copies to give away. To put your name in the hat for the chance to win one, simple answer the question below:
What’s the name of the pilot of the colonisation ship Covenant?
Follow the link and best of luck!
I'm definitely buying that!
Looks like a wealth of information on the film. Some very talented artists!
Thanks IRaptus.
The drawings look fantastic, even for those who did not properly enjoy the film.
Pasting some more below (Amazon.com).
Awesome find daliens!
I'll feature this so everyone has an opportunity to decide to buy one if they wish XD
A short interview about the book with Matt Hatton and Dane Hallett by Scott Wampler at BIRTH.MOVIES.DEATH
I can't wait to read it along with Big Chap.
"Cave Paintings are on about"
I'd really like to have closure on the cave paintings:
Why would the Engineers share their pathogen producing planet/system with Earthlings/cave people?!
"Yes Earthlings, This is where our deathcults are located...drop by when you achieve space travel! 50% off your 1st Urn!"
Or
"Yes Earthlings, this is the location of our beautiful homeworld, very much like your own.....drop by when you achieve space travel! Break bread with us!"
I tend to believe the SpaceJockey and Lv426 had something to do with the destruction/deforestation of LV223
2100 years ago...LV223 nice place.
100 years later...war...Space Jockey crashes on LV426..LV223 surface is wiped clean, only good for toxic waste and weapon testing.
Where's BigDave he's great at this ?!
Michelle Johnston said, "2) The invasion of Elizabeth's womb."
Yes, that idea and the scenes which expressed that idea were scary.
One part that I thought was scary in Prometheus was when the blue holograms started running towards the explorers and David just appeared to be in love with them with the wind blowing through his hair. In my thoughts I was thinking, "Just get out! JUST.GET.OUT!" Of course, what made that scene scary for me was the whole build up to that point. There's not much to that scene but the build up and David's insanity, but which really makes that scene a scary scene.
I notice when people down the years have mentioned the original "All About Everything" nature of Prometheus intent, as opposed to the "shoot um up" Aliens sub genre they refer to the Prometheus elements as being "Lovecraftian."
Given this statement from Lovecraft "To me there is nothing but puerility in a tale in which the human form—and the local human passions and conditions and standards—are depicted as native to other worlds or other universes." I am not inclined to agree.
It seems to me the original proposition of Prometheus is we go out there and end up looking in the mirror. "They are us we are them."
Jon Spaihts very first "seeds", excuse the pun, where about explaining us from a very familiar view point using a technique that moves between Darwinism and Creationism. It is within an existing conversation and was neatly summarised in the conflict of Elizabeth science and faith.
Lovecraft seemed to me to jump right out of that and is somewhere else, certainly stylistically.
I am not suggesting Lovecraft isn't good or great I am simply saying my take on what Prometheus was going to do is quite different. I think, and this will come as no surprise, its something Damon Lindelof said. Ridley is very interested in Bladerunner (ish) themes. So Prometheus was going to some place where the mechanics of life and creation are not quite what we think but the humanoid was the reference point from which you look out. 2049 moves into that territory.
Mind you the theme of Mountains of Madness is hinted at by Charlie.
So some of this is about style and some about content. Can you say a horrific thing within a very normal humanoid setting. Do you go out to some place that looks and feels very odd to say odd things or do you go some place normal and feels normal to say odd things. The danger with the latter is it feels parochial - a bit like Star Wars.
One idea of Love crafts I do like is that in the future we recognise our forebears the pre civilised ones had more real insight into the truth and in someways thats what the Cave Paintings are on about. That we are unlearning rather than re learning.
"came from the Pyramids"
Yes! I'd love to get a William Hope Hodgson "The Night Land" spin.
John C Wright does a great job updating this:
https://www.amazon.com/Awake-Night-Land-John-Wright-ebook/dp/B00JM98V60
Now to get someone to 'update' the A L I E N story ......H.P. Lovecraft "At The Mountains of Madness" style. Neutral science fiction....I'd LOVE to have a version of Prometheus written by Lovecraft....Even have a Alien:Covenant version...with less 'Bro-dude millennials' crewing the spacecraft.
Entire project
Today I was thinking about some of the ideas in "Regained" which can be back filled into Prometheus. Not contradictory but they were off screen as it were. So I actually am coming round to the view it would be much more fun to read the entire "Theodicy" in one go anyway.
Also there is some stuff in "Regained" which is connected to A L I E N and so if the craft in that film came from the Pyramids it makes sense to make that connection whilst you are in them in Prometheus hinting at what you find out later.
It also address's something which I think is a fair criticism where does the creature fit into whats gone on in the Pyramids. Maybe it doesn't but why not? or maybe it does in which case make it clear. Indeed the only serious narrative changes rather than embellishments are about clearing up all those issues before we wake our friend. The real monster of the book is I am sure going to turn out to be Weyland.
What is Paradise and from whose point of view. Mankind tends to look at this from a pre Galileo point of view it all revolves around us and our perception. In some ways Elizabeths view of where her father has gone "some place beautiful" might imply that Paradise/Heaven is restricted just to mankind is it?
Elizabeth in that beautiful scene left out of Prometheus talks about the story she was told as a child of the Sun being lonely so we were created. She is also inspirational on the matter of we are not alone. However that presupposes her faith up until that point is based on the notion there is one God for one people. She has rocked up and found her creators are not Gods at all so now she wants to know who made them surely they are God? She is remodelling God as she goes on. Certainly by the time she leaves the Calpamos Moon she is not looking for Paradise but the Engineers Home world "Where they came from." She is exhausted grieving so probably needs time to think that somehow Paradise "where we go when we die" has gone a.wo.l. Surely that comes back into her mind?
I like your openness on the Ovoids. Its relatively easy to come up with how where they created. There are many hints in Prometheus. Elizabeth's experience is a pretty good bet as to some of it.
However I like your point about what are they for. The assumption in the movies seems to be Mankind, Dogs, Ox. They could be for some thing really significant. Unlike the mutagen the cycle is very ritualistic that might be important.
"At this stage I think its much better to carry on finish the entire project"
Okay.
"what does Paradise look like.."
Awesome...I know what my paradise would look like...But an Engineers??
Kane and the Ovoid.
Where did the Ovoids come from!? Did the creature burst from the Space Jockey lay them? Or are they typical Engineer traps? Or? ?
I had intended to give things a break until I was about to launch both elements. I have also realised people can approach you on Wordpress and you have no idea who they are. At this stage I think its much better to carry on finish the entire project and then offer it personally to those who ask in whatever format they prefer, for now I will need to have some sense of who the person joining in is, should they wish to do so.
Most of those who have read it and been read to had no idea where it was going so it was a shock to end up "There". But thats an intellectual shock not frightened to bits shock. I say this in the forward but I have tried to place the story in a landscape which feels normal but in terms of whats going on is not. So they aren't somewhere which has suddenly gone dead (Aliens) and come up against terror.
For me there are two terrifying elements to Prometheus :-
1) That creation requires sacrifice. Its not cuddly and thoughtful. Its tough and unsentimental.
2) The invasion of Elizabeth's womb.
Again its the ideas thing. Just two to ponder.
If the Calpamos Moon represents Paradise Lost (Pietro Scalia) then what does Paradise look like, is there such a thing and from whose point of view. If we went there would we recognise it as such. Clearly the Engineers were not happy with it and something happened.
Kane stuck his head over the Ovoid and out pops a creature whilst they are having a late brunch. It may or may not have life in it as an icon which drives a franchise but where was the Engineer Craft going with its cargo approximately 2,000 years ago (Prometheus 2012 version) and what was the intended target of the Ovoids. It is extremely unlikely that Kane was the intended host. Is this relevant. Whom might the intended host have been and if that is relevant what is the creature.
