Comments (Page 390)
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I can sense your frustration Thoughts_Dreams but i think like it or not David is a big part of the Plot, i think the only way to have him not be much of the Movie but the Plot still around him would be similar to how Dr Shaw was a big part of ALIEN COVENANTS Plot.. By that we see nothing of her, only her Body but we get the picture that she was the Big piece of the Puzzle that lead to those Xenomorphs.
So the only way this would kind of work with David would be a Movie set on Origae-6 or the Covenant, after David has attempted to do what ever he had planned, and fell victim to it. So for example a Human Ship arriving on Origae-6 to discover nothing but a few survivors held up in hiding from the Xenomorph Threat... Discovering the Body of David that gets Re-activated to give us some Narration to what happened. And then discovering Xenomorph Eggs...
Even if we have NO Human Survivors or some managed to get into Cryo-sleep, this kind of Plot above would have the habit of being too similar to a ALIENS meets Alien Covenant... and then to introduce the Engineers, we have to ask how do they interact with the Humans who maybe survived or had came to discover the aftermath of destruction on Origae-6
I will say the Longer Disney leave it the more likely a Plot like above will happen, because every few years that pass is less chance of RS playing a part in the movie Franchise, and also less of a chance of Fassbender pulling off a 35 year old looking Android.
The Problem with this kind of Plot, would be that the Prequels had changed direction to lead us to the events of ALIEN and so if they continue the route that David Created the Xenomorph, even if the Engineers Evolve this to get to ALIEN, then we need a Engineer or other Taller Race to end up with those Eggs on board a Engineer Spaceship that is heading towards the LV-223/426 System.
so the Plot will end with this so we get the Space Jockey, but then its a case of building Human Characters and then what happens to those who survive at the end of the next movie if we by-pass what ever RS plans could be.... and go for a aftermath movie.
If incoming Humans discover what happened to the Colonist/Eggs and David between Alien Covenant and when this WY Ship arrives, but then the Engineers return to interact... we have to ask how/why would any Humans Survive or the Next movie, after the Engineers return... unless they take the same side?
So its tricky really..
UNLESS we get the reveal that when the Engineers return, they are interested in Davids Xenomorph and see it as a Evolution of the ones they created Thousands of years prior.. if they make this clear that David DID-NOT create the Xenomorph then they would not need to even cover the events of the Derelict as we would then assume it is once again a Ancient Event,
@Charza and Thoughts_Dreams
I think you both raise good points, and indeed it appears these Prequels have put a Emphasis on David and AI a lot, they also dont utilize Characters much apart from them being merely to drive the Plot. The only real Characters being invested in was Dr Shaw/David and Weyland and then David/Walter in Alien Covenant, with maybe Daniels a tiny but but she felt more like a extra and not a lead in Alien Covenant and so her role was only as significant really as what? Vickers or Holloways.
I think now DISNEY own the rights, they may not appear in too much of a Rush to make another Alien movie and every year that passes by does effect the potential as far as Ridley Scotts role in the future Movies and also the Android David... by that i mean if Disney decide to not make any ALIEN movies for 10 years we can assume Ridley Scott would not be up for Directing/Producing the Movie and that Fassbender is going to find it hard to play a Android who is supposed to look 10-15 years younger than Fassbender will be in 10 years.
DISNEY would also want to make sure any future Franchise movies not only DO WELL at the Box Office but also Set Up the Potential to do further movies, that will continue to make good returns.
THIS MEANS.... Disney will be looking to Gauge the Reaction and Wants of the Fanbase, and while the Fanbase has different likes and dislikes since the Prequels... they would no doubt be looking at the Higher % of Fans, and if there are some Elements they feel have displeased the greater Fanbase Population than other elements, then Disney could look to CHANGE some things.
In General i appears a Majority of Fans feel the Prequels have made the Alien/Enigmatic tale of the Xenomorph thats very Alien, maybe somewhat Lovecraftian which includes the Derelict/Space Jockey, they now appear to be Less Alieny/Lovecraftian from the more Human looking Space Jockey Race to how they actually are Historically connected to Mankind way prior to the Xenomorph Origins to now giving us the route that its Mankinds own Creation the Android David behind the Xenomorph.
So if Disney feel elements like this have not done justice to Mystery/Enigma that was the Derelict, the Space Jockey and Xenomorph Origin and Purpose, then maybe they would change this?
@Thoughts_Dreams
It would be interesting to see what role everyone had in the Production of this movie as it has gone through a lot of work, from ideas Ridley Scott and Linedloff would have discussed for a sequel, to then brainstorming these with Paglen, to Green then re-working those ideas.. Right until the Direction that Harper and Logan had taken.
You can be sure RS would have a broad idea of what he wants and the writers then take this and expand it and go back to RS who will have his input on what to change/keep but we also have to remember that those at FOX also have a HUGE say in what goes in or out of the story. I dont think how the Characters are written can be RS fault, only fault is maybe as far as reading the drafts and agreeing with how they are laid out, but the back ground for the Characters, and Plot Elements they will be involved in you can be sure RS had a lot of input.
The Engineers differences could be interesting, because Ridley Scott claimed those Planet 4 (Alien Covenant) Engineers are the Originals. Does this mean all the Engineers in Prometheus are not the Originals? Maybe there is some oversight at play here to how they looked, and so maybe the Sacrificial Engineer and Planet 4 Engineers are intended to be the same... but maybe RS comments suggest the LV-223 Suited Engineers are not quite like the ORIGINALS
We will have to see how/if they ever explore the Engineers in future and see if we are shown their are differences.
It would be interesting to see if we can get a interview or some comments from Khang Le as to if these were officially authorized concepts for the Prometheus 2 Project and maybe at what point of the Project were these for.. i.e Paglen/Green ideas or latter work/changes that lead to Harper/Logan
Thank you very much BigDave.
Thanks Thoughts_Dreams.
It indeed has been a while. Good to see this site is still great though :)
By the way, I have been thinking about Lovecraftian themes lately, because of this topic, and came to realize that the original Alien is actually more Lovecraftian than Alien Covenant is. I do own several H.P Lovecraft stories myself, and usually these stories center around people who have seen the impossible and because of that lost their sanity/grip on reality.
It usually also involves cosmic forces or entities that are incomprehensible and titanic in scope, making humanity small and insignificant in comparison.
The first alien kind of checks all the boxes in this regard.
When the Nostromo crew finds the derelict ship on LV-426, it doesn't make sense to them. The complete alien nature of the structure and the possibilities surrounding its origins are a complete and utter mystery and fully beyond their comprehension.
The first half of Alien has elements of Lovecraftian storytelling, while Alien Covenant has lots in common with Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
By the way, I still recommend the novelization of Alien Covenant, as the way the story is told there makes much more sense, and is much more in line with already existing lore. The movie is just a horribly executed mess, and I think a lot of the choices they made in the end just prevented this movie from being a true masterpiece.
Selfie created using photos that were shared on FB group by people that played the Engineers.
Love this thread! Especially like this piece by Khang Le:
Let's keep the comments classy, guys. Thanks.
Critters5: Yeah they look interesting but it takes more than interesting monsters to make a good movie. I agree that Scott doesn’t make things better.
As a general comment I am not that interested in alien 5 but I do not want another David movie either. The David-centricity has got to go before it ruins everything as it is already doing. Save whatever good things that there are left to save in the prequels but it would not surprise me if Scott will do that in this stubbornness to make another David movie.
The first two pictures look the best, I do not have a favorite among those two.
Charza:
Welcome back, I haven’t seen you around here for a long time. I agree, I hope that David is not responsible for the Xeno, that would be even more lame than Covenant. AC has its moments but is lacking overall.
Big Dave: That is why they got to keep him away from the storytelling. He is not a writer. I would not mind if the Engineers try to re-arrange the Xeno that David Made. My hope is that they will not take an obvious route, that would be the best so if Scott says that David did it then they could do something totally unexpected which still makes sense in the total story. Hopefully they will keep the origins of the black go as a secret so there is something to speculate about.
Critters5: I can only speak for myself but my main problem with AC was that the characters were so poorly written and that all the focus as far as character building goes was spent on the androids. When a movie doesn’t care about the human characters, that is when I don’t care about the movie. Not everything about it was crap but there was enough underdeveloped things for it to be sort of bad.
My favorite picture this far is probably the goo-bath picture. It reminds me of the lazarus pit that Ra's al Ghul in Batman uses.
Perhaps the Engineers could modify the goo to use it for healing purposes?
Hox and BD: Ha ha ha! OK
I get a nasty mental image from this. (The nose covered in poop) Eeew!!
Seriously though, if they will make the next alien movie one about David then I would rather not have any movie at all for the simple reason that it would feel like a waste of time to watch it. I watch it for interesting human characters and the monster, not a story about an android.
Thanks for posting this. I am a person that really likes to look at alternate version of things, behind the scenes clips, commentaries, and similar things. Looking at how things develop, the creative process is something that I think is interesting.
Maybe they could release some of the unused concept art for Alien Covenant or what would later become the movie as a book or something.
Exactly, I agree that the result of them being couples was underwhelming to what it could have been. Unfortunately this was made worse because of a lack of any character that we could feel something for and support. Ripley worked because we could feel something for her, AC did not have any of that.
"… more just to get an even mix of men and women…"
If that is the case it just made Covenant worse. Characters must be well written and serve a purpose other than just being killed. It does not matter if a character is a man or woman, tall or short what ever if we can not identify with it (as long as the character is not meant to be the bad person I mean).
"Here you could barely remember that she was a rock climber in the first place!"
LMAO! Yeah we did not get any backstory to her character, that was just lame. Did they ever shown her as being a rock-climber? I do not remember any scene like that in the movie.
Ridley is good with the visuals but he should not be involved in the writing of the script.
I hope that the Engineers are more involved in getting the classic Xeno than what David is. There is still room for having it so David re-created a version from what he found in some Engineer writings.
The Engineers looked different in AC compared to Prometheus, I think that was strange if they are supposed to be the same. Maybe they looked like the Engineer's lost cousins but not like the LV-223 Engineer (skin-tone).The lack of bio-mechanical things never bothered me but I understand if some people did not like that.
Hopefully we will be given something new but I doubt it. They could look around and try to find influences so we will not be given a lot of the same again. Look at what Covenant did and try to avoid much of that.
I hope that we will be given less David and Better Human Characters, at least some. Alien Covenant had Oram and then who? None other than Oram stood out among the humans, which was unfortunate. David and Walter were interesting but they are androids. Some new monsters would be nice to see but I am afraid that we will see much more of the same that Covenant had namely poorly written human characters and an over-reliance on androids so it will suck donkey dick. Characters over plot, thank you very much. I do not want an Alien Covenant 2 (as far as the quality goes), no way.
About an over-reliance on David I can tell you all this: sure he is a good actor but it is kind of boring to have a sadistic android in 60-70% of the movie. That is too much of the total runtime.
Speaking of the plot, I hope that they will change it so it will not be something involving another Derelict. There should be some different ships at least. There have been a derelict in all Scott's alien movies, this is not a big issue but I heard of that in a podcast and that was right. Something new please. You are right that they must change that because it feels a bit old by now to me.
More suspense and keep the monsters in the shadow, do not over-expose them like they did in Alien Covenant. Alien worked because they left a lot of that up to the imagination, that is what good horror movies do. The monsters can be developed in different directions but David is getting old to me no matter what Scott says. I don't want a third prequel movie about an android, that is really boring. I hope that they do not want us to support David and root for him, that is just silly. I will not support a mad android but maybe that is what Scott wants us to do I don't know.
More of the Engineers please, and try to make them interesting. Maybe they could make the SJ either an Engineer or something closely related to the Engineers. They had potential in Prometheus but they got to be better done this time. Try to figure out ways to make them a threat and try to show us more about their society, political structures, and religion. Perhaps there will not be much dedicated to that in a two hour movie but at least there could be hints. I would rather have more of them than about David because we have already had one movie about him (which mainly is what Covenant was about, his agenda).
Speaking of the WY, I would rather see them than David because then it could possibly involve some interesting human characters. Maybe someone that does not know about their agenda and that turns against them when they realize it, that could be interesting and could make for some interesting human characters.
A movie about David creating a lot of eggs? That sounds boring to me
What a good post Theseus, thank you. I agree that Alien evolution is a better title.
"I am drawn to RS comments about it not being so much about Xenomorphs, meaning that David will actually portray himself as Walter and help the Colonist Set up a New World... before things go to POT!"
I am already worried that it will suck, someone should tell Scott that a movie dedicated to an android for 65/75% of the total time is a bad idea. Actually there are alien fans that are not that into David, like me but there are probably other persons too. There are different kind of alien fans since this has been around for a while now so I hope that Scott's ego will not kill it because I think that is what is about to happen to be honest.
Obviously I don't know Scott but it sees to me that he has a million ideas and can say one time say X and at another time say Y about the same topic. He seems to be more into visions of how the ship will look for example rather than to how they story will be so he is not a writer. Keep him away from everything that has got to do with the story/script.
My guess is that it is an earlier version of the Xeno, they are not there yet. This is why it does not bleed acid for blood. Another answer is that they did not think a lot about it.
Hopefully they will leave the black goo a mystery so we can think about that. Yeah David says that it is a radical AI but he does not say how it works so I think that there are things there that can be left vague, I hope so.
Yes, the Dog Xeno was eating until it got interrupted and I think the neo was chomping on Rosenthal- both seemed pretty indiscriminate and could have just been eating whatever was easiest to quickly devour.
The only evidence I have seen in the movies seemed to be asexual reproduction or a very alien form of it as was stated above in Alien DC. AVPR may have had a strange sort of sexual reproduction but I think we aren't supposed to even mention that disaster.
The face hugger arguably sexually inseminates a host "face rape". Since that is part of the entire cycle, one might argue the xenomorph is involved in sexual reproduction indirectly or by proxy? Might be a stretch.
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we see the xenomorph feeding in alien3
ATI: There are a lot of folks that were totally in love and felt wonderful about what they were doing that are sitting in jail right now. I am guessing they would disagree with you.
Ages 17 and 24 equals jail time in most of the United States. Italy has different rules I guess, doesn't mean I agree with them.
Because reasons. Not everything has to have acid for blood.
It's good, and a lot better than Ghost in the Shell, IMHO, which had some fairly dreadful CGI.
It's based on a Richard Morgan novel, but the producers have shamelessly ripped off ideas from William Gibson's Neuromancer multiple times, which I find a bit annoying. He should get his lawyers on the case.
Not a typo it think.While Fox has an established canon and time line,it's clear Ridley has little regards for it.Some known things such as the Jordans stumbling across a dead queen in River of Pain have already been thrown out the door.On hand it does help explain how the LV-426 derelict might still be old if indeed all those souls aboard the Covenant are the eggs.On the other hand it overwrites his previous comments about the derelict having left LV-223.While i'm a fan of both Prometheus and Covenant,I do feel Ridley is making shit up as he goes a little if he's playing by his own rules and timeline
Isn't this a film about pedophilia? I'll pass. With all the #metoo and other stuff going on this seems oddly celebrated LOL.
Uhhh yeah... I guess it's a typo as Gavin suggested/hoped. I sort of feel like he may have meant just 100 of years worth of advances in technology or something. Well, I hope. It seems like everyday we see or hear something that points to Sir Ridley cares very little about some of the details that go into building a franchise.
One of the good things about when more Alien movies are made in the future without him (or with him at more of a distance, producing or something) is that hopefully the director(s) and other producers stay on top of these continuity errors.
Relax it's just a slight case of "Sir Scott or how I stopped giving a dime about continuity and started loving the Fassbender".
Hopefully a typo,
We all know that the events depicted in Covenant occur in 2104, 10 years after Prometheus, which was in 2093/94, and that the events in Alien started at 3rd June, 2122, with the events in Alien occurring 57 years later in 2179.
If this isn't a typo, then it is quite worrying...
Remember Yog Sothoth,
In the directors cut of Alien Ridley Scott reintroduced the egg-morphing scene which many fans of the original movie view as a better and more ambiguous form of propagation than James Camerons Queen, which many fans feel has been overused and led to the "cooked" nature of the franchise.
If Scott reintroduced the egg-morphing scene to hint at its canonicity it gives us two forms of egg production, just as the parasitic motes in Alien Covenant gives us two forms of parasitic part of the creature's lifestyle.
Speculation is part of the fun of being a fan, as we all are, and with a franchise as ambiguous as the Alien franchise, speculation is not only inevitable but is what keeps the fandom alive, as members of this and other forum sites will attest to. As already stated in a previous reply James Camerons intentions are well known, but the finished movie of Aliens (nor the special edition) does not state definitively the Queen and her brood are of the exact same origin as the Alien, and so is open to speculation.
In Prometheus and Alien Covenant Scott clearly shows use variant forms of the Xenomorph do exist with the Deacon, Neomorph, and Protomorph, with only the latter bearing the most resemblance to the creature seen in the first, and subsequent movies. Yet who is to say that the creature of the first movie is the same as those depicted in subsequent movies when the aforementioned egg-morphing scene contradicts the need for a Queen.
Myself and BigDave have offered the possibility that potentially the Facehugger born from the egg formerly known as Brett may have impregnated Dallas with a Queen Embryo. But Scott's introduction of variant forms of the Xenomorph allows for more than one type of the creature, meaning that his intention for the Alien and Camerons can now co-exist without the need for the compromise BigDave and I offered.
Nice idea...but a few problems. The Neomorphs DO use a parasite stage in thier lifecycle. Those "spore motes" as people call them are actualy tiny insects, which are seen under the microscope in David's lab. Please see here for more details on this -> https://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/46223
Also we must remember that the events of Aliens happend on the same planet as the original Alien. The Aliens in the sequel were intended by James Cameron to be the same creatures as in the first film. So for this article to be "correct", we would need counter-information from Ridley Scott as to the direction he wishes to take the franchise. If he point blank says that he does not see the Queen as related to his creature, and that his story is on a different line to Aliens, Alien 3 etc. then yes this idea holds out. But minus any of that, it is pure speculation at best, fan fiction at worst. So basically...until Scott comes clean about his intended direction, all we can do is shrug and just go with the current authorial intent of Cameron. His Aliens are the same as in Alien. Cameron explained himself, that his Aliens looked slightly different to the one in the first movie because they had aged slightly.
Aliens and its sequels are not made from Ridley Scott.
He would not chance xenomorphs head and create queen.Thats why in Covenant we have the smooth dome and there is no queen.
Just dont count the movies that are Not directed by Scott as part of the franchise.
I couldn't find the interview on the internet so here's some ss lol
