Comments (Page 392)

Imagine in 10 years we get a Starbeast style prequel to Prometheus? 

I think the lore at this point is pretty F-ed thanks to oversite and carelessness at this point imo

Amazing replies anyone! Thank you so much :)

Does the Advent clip exist anywhere online? I have never been able to find it...

JurassicNight

Feb-08-2018 4:23 PM

I actually like this, only there's one problem. Scott wants the Alien to return to it's mysterious malevolent ways, yet he tells us how they're created. I'm sorry but I can't get over that, I hate the fact that they have an origin, an origin of which they were created by an android. Hopefully if this theory turns into truth then have the Alien from the first movie be something that existed before David. 

I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and after reading the official novelization I've come to the conclusion that Scott in fact might not have explained the origin of the Xeno species. 
Like I already mentioned before in another topic, David has been able to ultimately produce some kind of Xenomorph like creature although it is different. This is however NOT the same creature the Nostromo crew encounters. 

I think David merely recreated a creature that was already part of the Engineer culture. 
It is not a protomorph, and not the absolute origin of the xx121 Xenomorph species. 

I like it! Definitely agree on all your comparisons!

I'll go Marilyn Manson and Slipknot with Resident Evil.

Obsure one, but The Cube franchise and the band Karnivool.

Probably nostalgia talking but I always associate Sevendust with the original Starcraft......and pizza.

ninXeno426 I know the pieces fit...

Well, I like to see the xenomorph as an ancient being - even older than the engineers. The engineers discover this species (the eggs on LV-426) and bring eggs to LV-223 to do the ritual on sacrificial humans or engineers (which we see in the mural). The being we see in the mural is a human (or engineer) clad in a ritualistic dress resembling the being which they give birth to. The dress is open in the chest/stomach and there is a hole there portraying result of the chestburster.

The engineers eventually make the pathogen out of xeno DNA because it's easier and not so dangerous to transport (and the result is just as deadly). It’s also obvious that we get different results depending on the host. So, I agree that the original xeno might be different from the others we have seen - eggmophing e.g.

Also, it’s a nice idea of yours, BigDave that the egg chamber is a huge, portable silo in the shape of a flower, but I think it doesn’t look that symmetric, it seems more like a naturally, undulating, formed cave - formed through millennia of winds and water (or if there is no oxygen or water some similar process)? However, the cave (as I like to see it) has been modified with bio-mechanical traits such as protruding gangways (piers) leading out into the "sea" of eggs (which Kane falls off), vaginal-shaped holes and walls prepared in a similar way to when you prepare a wall in your house with wallpaper etc? These biomechanical additions to the cave might also contribute to creating the atmosphere (warmth and perhaps humidity), the layer of mist etc?

@ DarkNebula,

Indeed, James Cameron also added later the suggestion that the Aliens in his movie may have shed their carapaces and biomechanical elements as they aged.

Design changes aside all of the Aliens in Aliens, 3 and Resurrection can be sourced from the Queen in Aliens, whereas the "Big Chap" Alien is sourced from the plethora of eggs in the egg silo, which may not necessarily have come from the Queen, especially if we are to accept the egg-morphing scene as canon.

What Alien: Covenants Neomorphs show us is that not all "Xenomorphs" rely on the same form of propagation as the established beast, and that there can be variant forms of the creature. Davids "Protomorph" is one such variant, that simply refined the Deacon - which highlights that regardless of Scott's comment's David did NOT create the Xenomorph.

Yes, however if the only way to reproduce is thru egg morphing you need 2 host to get to 1 adult Xenomorph, and how is that efficient, "perfect"? 

Well, to me it doesn’t look like a silo - more like a cave which has been modified in some ways. The xeno was biomechanical and parts of the cave look the same, but you get the feeling of a flowing cave and that the biomechanical aspects are put on top of rock, here and there vagina-like holes drilled leading somewhere? There is also light at the far end, suggesting an opening?

If we go on fantasizing, xenos might have laid the eggs there a long time ago and then disappeared for some reason, and later on, the engineers found the cave and made adjustments to it, perhaps in order to make it easier to harvest the eggs? The layer of mist might be a safety precaution so that the facehuggers don’t attack when the engineers came to pick some eggs?

It continues to improve! I love your take on the Sistine Chapel!

Yes, I know- but here it is. Go ahead and hate, but it is an homage to the Ancient Alien idea.

Some ancient Sumerian figures of Abu temple, different size of each figure varies only according to its social importance (hierarchy). This might explain the engineer size differences?

 Also, those figures have larger eyes, larger shoulders, short neck and high nose bridge.

This has to be solid proof that in Reality the Engineers did create us and the Xenomorph after all lol

Here is another with Sacrifice to the Gods.

Well, RS/the scriptwriters have certainly been influenced by old cultures and religious beliefs, human sacrifice etc.

I get you, its kind of what i mentioned to a degree, so indeed Ancient Xenomorph  like in Star Beast, its something we cant rule out.  Its how to address how the Egg Silo looks like a Facility, unless its a Ancient one where the Engineers had something else, that had been replaced by Eggs.

Interesting take on the Sacrificial Mural being a Human

When looking at Prometheus prior to when it came out and just after, it certainly was one thing to consider the Urns as just a Natural Evolutionary way to Re-Weaponize the Xenomorph for something more Easier to Contain.

I think the route RS has taken has blown a lot of theories on here out of the water a bit lol

I had a pretty good idea to explain nearly everything in Prometheus that makes sense to me, but now some of it wont add up to the route RS has taken us.   But then i guess they still add up a bit.

My theory goes against this all being a Bio-Weapon though, its a case of a Creation Seeding Tool thats Evolved, that then is either contaminated or they came across/punished with a Ancient Organism they they decided to Experiment with.   I am not so drawn to the Xenomorph being a Ancient Bio-Weapon or the Black Goo and Juggernaughts and LV-223 being created for the purpose of just Bio-Weapons as a lot of clues goes against this.

Then again my other theory/idea is a bit different where i ponder some other Race that was using the Engineers to Procreate the Xenomorph, replaced by Humans after they Rebelled.. But then it was just figuring out what Race would want to Procreate the Xenomorph for what purpose.

Yeppers- SJ Pilot Chair pretty much says it all except for maybe this:

Space Jockey Pilot Chair, sitting on a Egg, to represent sitting above the Egg Cargo

Engineer and Humans, or Larger Space Jockey Race and Engineers.

Black Goo Urns maybe Creating Man, or Evolving.

Good analyses, as usual, BigDave. What I meant with the idea that the engineers just found the cave and the eggs on LV-426 a long time ago, was that the xenomorph was/is an already existing alien species, even older than the engineers? The xenomorph lay the eggs there? The engineers stumbled upon them ages ago, and learning what they were (the hard way) took them to LV-223 to do just like mural say they did - the usual facehugger and human sacrifice.

One interesting thing with the mural is that the creature being sacrificed in a crucifix manner (which many has interpreted as a xenomorph creature/deacon) seems to be a human (if you look closely). The human being sacrificed wears a ritual costume in the shape of the xeno-like creature which they will give birth to. The garment the sacrificed human wears is open in the chest/stomach looking very much like Shaw did (after what David had done to her) but can just resemble the result of the chestburster? So, in this scenario, the engineers didn’t create either the xeno or the eggs but used them on poor subjects. What they did create, however, was the pathogen - probably using xeno DNA? The eggs were too dangerous and awkward to transport so they created the black goo which could be contained safely in urns?

There are, of course, many problems with this theory - one is that it’s RS who decides the route (David as creator). :)

But saying that...... when looking at Prometheus and the Green Cystall and then considering what the Source i had mentioned about its connection and what the Black Goo was, this does kind of add up to what they said it was in the Advent..

Indeed Resurgence

This is the case that they have given... i do question the routes they take as far as considering LORE and what was laid down before, but it appears its a every changing make it up and change it as we go along.

They really dont think hard when working on ideas, especially in Alien Covenant... because if this is the case, we have to wonder WHAT does the Goo do at Default... HOW is it Programed?  The only Logical Explanation would be that from its SOURCE which we may not have seen yet..  The Substance is Programed and then its encased into the Ampoules...  

Which means the Black Goo in Prometheus on LV-223 had been Programed to Create those kind of Deacon DNA effects.... the Sacrificial Goo must have been Programed some other way before being placed into the Sacrificial Cup/Bowl.

This kind of makes the whole point of those Experiments on LV-223 a bit odd, i think the Radical AI was just a LAZY Cop out by those working on the Plot... so that the Black Goo is no longer a MacGuffin

If we assume its correct what the Advent shows us, then it makes little Sense for David to carry on with his Experiments, he just needs the Black Goo and Figure out what Algorithm would have created the Xenomorph and then just obtain what ever is needed to Program the Black Goo.

The Radical AI part is like kind of saying if we develop a Genetic Technique we a computer Program can Map the differences in DNA between various Organisms.... and so if the DNA of a Dog is say 110011011 and a Cat is 110010111 then having a way to Re-Program the Dogs DNA so that this area 11011  is rewrote to change it to 10111 then the Dogs DNA becomes a Cat.

I think this is kind of what they are now saying the Black Goo does... if this is the case, then all David needs to do is figure out what sequence his Xenomorph is, and Program the Black Goo to replicate this.

Hmm... All I can come up with right now is the age old man vs machine depicted to Spit out the Bone by Metallica- pretty bad ass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m46Z0-HXySo

I think the Black Goo ended up being some kind of McGuffin

They seem to chop and change what it does, my theory just as Prometheus came out was that it is a Creation Tool for breaking down a Organisms DNA/Genomes and becoming a Substance that contains and passes the Sacrificed Organisms DNA onto what ever Organic Life it came into contact with.

Which lead me to the Black Goo in the Urns being the collected results of a Sacrificed Deacon Organism (what ever was in the Mural)  a few months after this conclusion we saw Jon Spaights Alien Engineers leaked and his Nano-Scarabs basically did EXACTLY what i saw the Goo in Prometheus doing.

FOX released that Weyland File that basically tried to explain the Black Goo but contradicted what we saw in Prometheus.

Prior to Alien Covenant and seeing the Bombardment in The Crossing it made me look at another theory i had to explain why the Set Photos showed what looked like Burnt/Mummified Engineers, i thought the Urns were like some kind of Weapon like a Nuclear Device.... where the Ampoules contained one component of the Weapon like how a Nuclear Weapon has say Uranium/Plutonium and how contact with Uranium/Plutonium does not burn you to a crisp like the Blast of a Atomic Bomb, but it causes Radiation that leads to Mutations and other Complications.

So the Ampoules and maybe the Slime Stuff around it act like the Uranium/Plutonium and so on LV-223 what we saw was like walking into a Nuclear Weapons Facility at seeing a leak of Radiation from the Uranium/Plutonium

What we saw in Alien Covenant was the Primed and Activated Effects of the Urns, where something happens to them to cause a Reaction that causes them to Explode, much like how a Nuclear Bomb uses the Uranium/Plutonium

The other theory i had prior to watching AC, was maybe the other Ships Cargo that David took worked differently to the ones in Prometheus.

After seeing Alien Covenant, i was lead to indeed my Nuke Theory where some part of the Weapon Activation maybe via different frequencies of Sound/Radiation something, causes different effects/actions to the Bio-Weapon.   The Black Goo did explode into like tiny particles that seemed to indeed hunt down the Engineers (maybe this is not the case who knows) but it appeared to enter the Engineers and then begin to replicate itself, and escape... but then for some reason the Engineers Bodies just Turned Solid, as if Genetic Building Blocks instead of breaking down, where being Cystalized

I was wondering why this happened..... a Programed way for the Bio-Weapon determined by its Activation/Priming?

The effect of the Black Goo maybe hitting and breaking through some kind of Force Field that protected the City?

Prior to AC i put some theories on here wondering what the Device on the Cathedral Dome was, and could it have been a Safety Device Activated after the Bombardment that Halted the Pathogen, Turning all Organic Material within a Radius into like Stone (Solid) so as to Halt the Black Goo effects. At the time i thought that would explain the Gold Device, and those Bodies.

After Alien Covenant i still considered this... and the Nuke Analogy (Life outside the Blast Radius, suffers the effects of Radiation/Mutations) 

But then we had the Extras to Alien Covenant, were David confirms the Black Goo is like a Radical Form of AI

If I'm not mistaken, originally the Xenomorphs from Aliens were supposed to be the same design as the one from Alien, but in the last minute change by Cameron, the smooth drone carapace was removed because it was considered too fragile to stand up to the rigours of filming. Over the years, these xenomorphs were accepted as a new variant of species. Also, the 1979 big chap and the 1986 aliens have more human legs while the A3, AR and AC ones have more animalistic leg joints. Design changes made by the filmmakers happen all the time.

Indeed....  you will have to give some more of your Predictions, as they will be interesting to read.

I will reply to your Black Goo comment on the Topic you made and replied to recently.

As far as the Regenerating Xenomorph, i found it a odd and flawed comment by RS, but he must have mentioned it for a reason... This would kind of Turn the Xenomorph into something like the Terminator T-1000 though ;)

I made a Topic a while back about how the Eggs looked like a Cabbage Patch, and then mentioned how Cabbages are kind of IMMORTAL there means of Procreation is simply that when they Die/Decompose then from the Decomposed Material they Clone themselves and more Cabbages grow in place.

If we look at RS comment in this context and so when a Xenomorph dies, it decomposes and from its remains more Eggs Grow, i think this would certainly be fitting, and make it a interesting Weapon.

 BigDave I am afraid to say but David in the Advent extra DAVID tells us exactly what it is a form of radical AI that alters DNA based on an advanced Algorithm 

I think regardless of what route they take....

If they leave some Mystery to the Black Goo, then we can always ponder... where did this stuff come from and so while the Xenomorph may be relegated to being a Creation of David, we cant rule out that the Origin of the Black Goo is related to some other Ancient Related Organism.

BigDave it wasn't really me complaining about it being ripped off, but rather surprise and joy that someone else realized this and was able to explain it better, because I admit it was VERY poorly written, and could still possibly be canon as in the novelization it is stated the engineers also made a version of the xenomorphs which was the inspiration for David making the xenomorph and they could be what we see in aliens, as at the end of covenant in one of the deleted scenes DAVID stated "I have one thing left to perfect; My Queen"

Well you could speculate the route the movie would take would be David just experimenting on Colonist, so that any incoming Human Ship would arrive to discover Thousands of Eggs, and some Xenomorphs.

HOWEVER...

Ridley Scott mentioned the next movie would be more about AI, than the Xenomorph and it would follow what kind of World would he Create?   If the movie is about David creating loads of Eggs or we arrive in the aftermath where David has Created Eggs, but we only see a few Xenomorphs (because David (in Alien Covenant) had created many more Creations than the TWO Xenomorphs we saw).

But then what movie would it be if a WY Ship arrives at Origae-6 where they just discover Eggs... or they go to the Covenant which has Eggs...?

I am drawn to RS comments about it not being so much about Xenomorphs, meaning that David will actually portray himself as Walter and help the Colonist Set up a New World... before things go to POT!

I also have been reading a lot into the Nature Boy Song that was in the AC Trailer, and Walter's (David's)  conversation to Daniels when she asked "what kind of a World Can we Build?"

His reply... "if we are KIND it will be a kind World"

Indeed Awakening sounds odd.... it should only be applied really to the Original Creation point, and so that would have been a movie set in-between Prometheus and Alien Covenant...  Ridley Scott had actually mentioned this in a interview.

Ridley Scott Teases Covenant Sequel Title

“It will go Prometheus, Awakening, Covenant.. fairly integral where this colonization ship is on the way….”

I thought maybe this was a Misquote though as he made the same in regards to the Creation of the Xenomorph

“We’ve come back with a very simple idea. Who made them? No one ever asked that question. [Alien] was just about there it is; it exists. And this is what it is … So we’ve reinvented the idea of Alien, I think, which is that Covenant gets us a step closer to who and why was this thing designed to make human beings. And if you think it’s them [the Engineers], you’re dead wrong.”

I think what he meant was "why was this thing designed to KILL human beings"

I think the Term Awakening could be used as kind of a Re-Awakening... and funny enough Ridley Scott had confirmed that Blomkamps Alien 5 was actually going to be called Alien Awakening. which would have revolved around a Plot set 20 years or so after ALIENS and we are Re-Introduced to the Xenomorphs again plus other variants... hence a Awakening.

I have a idea for how to do the next TWO movies, which would start with my Alien Covenant sequel which would actually be called Alien: Ascension 

thank you BigDave, I also am scared about the the fact that I predicted the Black Goo being a form of AI that breaks down organisms replacing the dna, and also there is a statement by ridley scott stating that after the alien was dropped by the crane that it healed and regrew the it's limbs, which reminded me of in alien the healing rate that we see displayed by the facehugger and I believe they stated the same was true for the adult, but in Aliens... well not so much.

WAIT I JUST CAME BACK TO THE SITE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A LONG TIME, AND I JUST REALIZED, I PREDICTED THE BLACK GOO BEING A FOR OF AI THAT BREAKS DOWN THE ORGANISM, now I am kinda worried what else I predicted, and now I am scared for the future of the franchise because if I who at the time was 17 could predict what would happen am worried about if it will begin to become repetitive, ... or it could just be because I like to think that I am really good at putting pieces together...

I actually like this, only there's one problem. Scott wants the Alien to return to it's mysterious malevolent ways, yet he tells us how they're created. I'm sorry but I can't get over that, I hate the fact that they have an origin, an origin of which they were created by an android. Hopefully if this theory turns into truth then have the Alien from the first movie be something that existed before David. 

Looking at it now, i wondered why i could not have considered different species as in Different Cargo Holds, so nice call really...     should have considered this when looking at Alien Engineers ;)

Indeed Resurgence i have to say KUDOS to your Topic Here

The Differences are you was suggesting TWO different Ships, which is interesting... i dont think its a case of any one Ripping one Person off, but just TWO minds thinking alike but at different times.

I am actually surprised i never thought of such a connection/explanation after studying Alien Engineers lol   I deducted from Prometheus that Each Temple Mound/Complex Produced a Different Version of the Bio-Weapon so each Complex could have Ships with different types of Cargo...    which is maybe why some differences are seen in Alien Covenant.

But looking at Alien Engineers, it was showing the Ships have a number of different Cargo Holds with varying Organisms in them.

I think its certainly possible....

If we ASSUME that the Derelict has been on LV-426 way before the events of Alien Covenant.

To be honest this is something that actually had by-passed me in all the years... the Xenomorphs in Alien and Aliens being from a different Source... but its possible if we ignore Alien Covenant for sure...

When starting on a Prequel to ALIEN we first had ALIEN ENGINEERS, which indeed was to show us that the Engineer Ships have many Cargo Holds and Each had a different version of the Organism, and so looking at it like this, then WHY NOT and so Kane simply entered a different Cargo of Eggs to those that infected the Jorden's and Hadleys Hope...  This would explain the slight differences.

So i agree GAVIN its a theory to ponder....  as the one i was drawn to prior to seeing this was that a EGG MORPH leads to a Queen.

I will go back at you OT and tackle each part, with what i feel clues point to... not my opinions but just what evidence or lack of shows.

"Kane clearly says that it’s a cave"

This first part of you Topic, we covered a bit here, but indeed it appears the Cargo Hold just cant fit inside of the Derelict, and would have to be buried at least 60ft under the ground the Derelict crashed on.  If we are investigating this and looking at all clues ALONE.. then its hard to Fathom this being part of the Ship unless another Section is attached to the bottom of the Derelict.  Otherwise the idea of a Buried Egg Silo/Storage Facility seems more logical.

"This leads me to my thesis: LV-426 is where the eggs have been created."

Ignoring what RS claimed prior and after the U-Turn with AC, indeed we cant rule out that the Egg Silo is either where the Eggs are taken to LV-223 for experiments, or are taken from LV-223 to LV-426. Its unlikely, but when considering that the Egg Caro Hold is too large for the Derelict and if we consider could it be a separate Egg Facility then this is something we cant rule out either.

"as the space jockey opens the hatch, a face hugger"

Could work, its more likely than a Face Hugger was loose and used Acid to Burn though the Hull and get to the Space Jockey, if the Cargo Hold was on the Derelict this would still sound odd, its likely the Space Jockey went to investigate something, a Quarantine Failure or just Safety Checks... be it a Part of the Ship or a Underground Storage Facility... and then he gets infected.  So yeah i can agree with this point.

"The time and creation issues surrounding the eggs have become a huge problem"

There are some in-continuities and so it still could be explained as David just Re-Creates the Eggs.

"But, in this scenario, the mutagen is created on LV-223 and the eggs on LV-426."

IF  we consider the explanation for the size of the Egg Chamber meaning it has to be  a Underground Facility then indeed this is possible, certainly allows for this or Vice Versa (Eggs Created on LV-223, Transported to LV-426).

"The outbreak on LV-223, about 2000 years prior to Prometheus, might have nothing to do with the space jockey"

IF we consider the last few points as possible then it also allows this point to be possible.

"an experimental facility connected to it where abducted human females"

Again IF we consider David merely Re-Created the Xenomorph, and it was created prior, then did it naturally originate as it did, was it experimented on to get to the Xenomorph... or did the ENGINEERS create the Xenomorph via similar methods that David did?

Certainly Interesting.... and why i feel these concept arts are very interesting.

f

I ALREADY CAME UP WITH THIS THEORY OVER A YEAR AGO, WHO WROTE THIS?