Comments (Page 444)

10+ years?  Point being there should be no story going back there.

What about hammerpedes and worms.

Well these comments make me a little bit more hopeful. At least he is talking about the evolution of the beast and not the evolution of the AI. I am guessing he must be aware of the Star Trek Tarantino project, that will be an extra incentive for him since he is very competitive. At this point everything depends on the writers pitching the right idea to him. If he gets a script for a space monster movie that somehow manages to shake things up, offering something new while staying within the classic alien canon, he will for go for it. He just needs to get rid of John Logan. I think he is getting a clue already...

If I understand what you mean, I have been saying for some time that the Alien franchise could have a few different Netflix type series- one exploring AI, one exploring the Xeno and another exploring the Engineers. Basically a crebral one, an action one and one that could be a mix. Yeah, RS might see Netflix as a sort of demotion from the theatrical movies. The fans would be the big winners.

IRaptus

That corset armor looks cheesy however!

IRaptus

Both The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones had already established source material which could made into series (Alien also has but Scott might be too proud to use them).

It is also a pretty crowded market these days. It needs to offer something different and while I will watch them, the xeno will not be enough. It is the best monster but isn't scary anymore.

Given the excess of post-apocalyptic, dystonian and/or Zombie films/shows we see thriving atm, there is no reason that the Alien franchise cant thrive now in todays market.

The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones (2 of the most popular series today) have incredibly dark themes that focus on survival and built upon the all-hope-is-lost mentality not too dissimilar from the Alien Franchise.

If they did go for an AVP re-boot I would hope they steer away from the WWE style fanboy service films we got previously. There are suberb AVP scripts out there that they could use to do it justice and legitimately expand both franchises without being lame and cheesy.

1. Steve Perry's Machiko Noguchi story arc (The human Yautja).

2. Tim Lebbon's The Rage Wars trilogy. 

It seems timing has something to do with it. At the time, Star Trek and Star Wars generally had an optimistic view of the future- the masses liked that. Alien had a dark view of the future that, while it certainly has a devoted fan base, just didn't/ doesn't have the mass appeal. It will never be ST or SW and should not try to be.

BigDave

And how can you explore Engineer planets without people? They killed off the character who wanted answer so how? Introduce new humans who stumble upon those planets?

Of course they won't do it and if they reappear will be to "fist" fight the xenomorph. 

From an artistic POV, one shouldn't really try to give fans what they want since different fans want different things. There are three basic groups- ones that want Engineers, the AI fans, the Xeno fans and everything in between. then there is what the studio wants and he who holds the purse strings has a big say. In an ideal world, the artist should persue a vision with studio support.

Do another Alien movie thats more Alieny

Isolation has that in spades.

red0guy

The picture is from kermode's presentation page from avp.wikia.com. For those who do not know the guy.

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Mark_Kermode

I generally don't like the video bloggers, especially the narcissistic ones.

Alien Covenant IS NOT in top ten worst movies. That's impossible. Calm down. And enjoy the Christmas. 

I think if we take these on board and look at various  Creation Mythos and looking at David's Creation i do think maybe there is a Pattern?  The source i had claimed David had more in common with the Engineers, is this the LV-223 Engineers or all Engineers?

If the Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals, then this could mean the LV-223 Engineers are either a caste of Engineers who had Engineered themselves to become Evolved to look that way... or the Original Engineers, had Sub-created Engineered versions of themselves for some purpose.

Bladerunner we have the Replicates, these are Organic AI, they are grown and can we rule out the LV-223 Engineers being to the Planet 4 Engineers as Replicants in Blade Runner are to us?

@Michelle

I have to agree with a lot of what you said, i think the beauty with Prometheus and its set up is the range of how things could be answered is quite large, the scope is massive...  I think behind the Plots, the Creation, Sub-Creation and Rebellion Themes are KEY the reasons why the Engineers may have wanted us dead could be the same reason that in Hindsight what Danger creating our own AI has become.  Also another reason for our intended Destruction could be similar to the reasons for David in part wishing to do the same.  Feeling that Mankind is a wicked race, and in-superior and do not deserve the life they was granted.

The layers that can be fit over this or explain this is where it can take many directions, i think this would have opened up a very interesting Plot, and hopefully we can still explore these. I think answering the WHY we was created and WHY the Engineers Seed Worlds, is something that has to answered, and then WHY invest in such Bio-Weaponology to then Eradicate Life they created.

I think Prometheus gave us a lot of clues to the WHY we need to be destroyed, and Davids Arc could well be giving us the answers we need, if David manages to use the Xenomorph, or not if AI becomes Sentient and overthrows Mankind on Earth... in Hindsight what a Hubris for Sub-Creating this would have been... in Hindsight Mankind would then realize creating AI let alone allowing it more Free-will is something we should never had attempted.

Again scenes with David also answer maybe WHY we was created, Holloway told David we created him because we COULD in part this is true, the Creation of AI David, shows off how far Mankind has come, that now we can play GOD and create Life in our own Image... for Weyland this was the Showpeice to show how Great Weyland really had became, the monumental achievement of a Synthetic being shows off how Great Mankind has become.  Weyland created him to show case how gifted Weyland is, but also to show case and leave a Legacy of LOOK i created this.. much as a Artist does with his Paintings. This Creation also makes Weyland feel he is closer to doing what only GOD had done prior.

But also there is another reason David was created... he was created as a Tool, to Serve and to perform some Function and do Tasks so Mankind no longer had to...

I think if we look at WHY David was created in those two points, i would not be surprised if the Engineers created us for those very TWO reasons too.

There really is so much to be covered with the Engineers, i just hope after AC that they have not done it so there can be no going back now.

A theory i had on David and one i exploring in my Prometheus 2 however, was he was Weylands hopeful way to Cheat Death... Perfect a Synthetic, Perfect a way to Transfer Weylands Soul into it and Weyland would have Cheated Death... his Hubris is he could not perfect the way to transfer his Soul... and having to resort to Dr Shaws findings and meet the real Gods to give him more Life... only to end up with one of these beings killing him with the head of his own creation.

Indeed Critters my points were based on what Prometheus kind of led us to, now David created the Xenomorph that changes things a bit.  I was looking at the Black Goo and Xenomorph Eggs for the Purpose of a Weapon used to clear out Worlds, assuming both was created by the Engineers.

We really need to know what is the Plans/Purpose for wiping out Life with their Bio-Weapons, if it is to return to start again, then there must be a time-frame after the Black Goo and/or Xenomorphs that the World would be Safe to Return...  who knows how many years this could take, it could take Hundreds or Thousands before a Cleansed World is now a Clean Slate again...  but these Time-Frames may not appear so long in the Grand Scheme of it all as far as the Engineers go.

I dont think the Engineers would use these Weapons to purely destroy a World and thus Write this World off, unless the Bio-Weapons were a more recent creation (thousands of years) as a direct reaction to Humans on Earth.

I look more Engineer than them ;)

I think we have to wonder if those beings are how they are purely for Oversight, i.e RS only needed them for a Plot Device to show Davids bombardment and so thought to save money they would not invest much time on make up etc.

But then how hard  is it to apply a different shade of Paint and Purchase Black Sclera Contacts

LOL but seriously how hard is it to match the correct skin tone? and get those contacts?  Cost of what in bulk  $10-15 per cast member, plus time to apply?  Ok we need a Prosthetic Nose Bridge  but i bet the cost could be done for like $30-40 each.  Plus make up time and paying the Make up Artist.

Then the Engineers who will be seen up close add a bit more detail or gloss over with CGI.

So saving time and money on those Engineers really would not have saved much if they had a different skin tone and contact lenses...  So MAYBE there is a reason they appear different?

Ridley Scott has given use clues this is the case, calling these beings THE ORIGINAL Engineers and after Prometheus was released saying he DID-NOT want to meet GOD in the first movie (why Elders Scene was cut) but that David and Shaw would find these beings who are not Gods..

Then we have Ridley Scott after AC saying the Engineers ARE-NOT a Race but a CIVILIZATION this certainly could explain the differences, and also then ties to what the Source i had informed me about early 2015 regarding the canceled Prometheus 2

The only way forwards i could see Disney taking this and looking at what people complained about in AC.

Would simply to have Origae-6 being shown as a Colony Set up and everything going well, until something goes wrong... so we have either the last few survivors holding up against David... or have little or no survivors but either way we get to see a incoming Ship that ends up discovering no one is home and investigate and hell breaks loose.. 

But this would be just a rehash of Aliens again,  but this is Disney and i think they could go the aftermath route, and so make a movie that set after what ever the sequel to Alien Covenant would have been, by-passing those events.  Leaving the Aftermath.

Then introduce Engineers, and at the end we need to set up another Movie or inc in the next one where a Human Ship or Engineers are off to LV-223 to put a stop to that place.

I think however, we need to only by-pass a bit of time, and actually arrive at the Colony being set up and everything goes fine until someone finds out what really happened to Daniels and Tennessee then discover the Horror that Walter is not Walter, seeing Humans then rebel, David could then introduce his Xenomorphs as a Punishment to try and keep the Humans in line...   which puts them in Jeopardy, i would have it end where a Human Ship comes in and takes care of Davids Xenomorphs, the Surviving Colonist feel they are rescued... but then reveal actually the incoming ship is here for one reason... it wants Davids Creation.

Then we need to introduce the Engineers into the 3rd act or end of the movie to set up the next one.

This is what i would do... and i am starting to work on a story to cover this, that opens up by showing us Davids Plans/Psyche  and showing how he gains himself a New Body so he can then complete his Elaborate Plans to Charade as Walter, and cover up what actually happened to the Covenant.

Indeed we have to look at all the Pieces of the Puzzle or Chess Pieces being moved into place, Alien Covenant ended with David nearly Perfecting his Creation, off to what we can assume Origae-6 with Thousands of Colonist,  which leaves us to Alien requiring David to produce or the Engineers produce Thousands of Eggs from Davids Creation and then David obtains a Engineer Ship, or the Engineers control the ship that this cargo will become part of and then this ship has to head towards LV-223.

To try and cover this in ONE movie is not going to leave room for Characters at all, not to be built up well, and so it would need TWO movies so that the end of the next one sets up the pieces to bring in a Engineer Ship, and the next movie and connecting one has to take place on LV-223.

So again the main route this is taking will just be about PLOT Devices, where really only David plays central part and everything else becomes just Plot Devices.

I think looking at how they operate.....  a AVP Reboot could be on the cards...

They can bring in Xenos, Predators and Engineers and also Merchandise and i think if it works they could make these more in line with the Action movies rather than any Horror at all.

I think we can still explore those, if Disney do go ahead and makes a number of movies as RS intended.

While they was brushed under the carpet in AC, the likely hood that Planet 4 and LV-223 are the only places the Engineers are based on is slim. Even if they was, there are still Engineers out doing their duties on Ships.

And then who knows who created the Engineers... so its not the end of the Plots Prometheus was setting up.

Oh i kind of see now ;)

I think if we consider Paradise as Heaven but then i think Paradise/Planet 4 fits more if we look at it in context to Paradise Lost and the Biblical Account...

*Paradise is where the Garden of Eden is.

*Paradise is not where GOD comes from

*Paradise is not where the Angels come from

*Paradise is the Cradle of Human Civilization

*Paradise is watched over by Cherubim Angels

If we look at it in this context then those beings and what we saw starts to make more sense.

Thats just my interpretation of Prometheus though, which the Jon Spaights Alien Engineers provided to be the Rosetta Stone to decode a lot of what Prometheus showed us...  now we have AC and other comments by RS, while some still applies.... i think the new route does change a few things.

I think those working on the Project made a right Pigs Ear of it all....   In Spaights ideas it was simple.

Sacrificial Goo, Breaks down DNA into a substance that then passes on the DNA traits of who ever consumed the Sacrificial Goo.     Hence these Engineers encountered something where the Xeno DNA Originated from and they used the Sacrificial Goo on it to allow them to use its DNA to Create a whole manner of related Organisms...  In their Hubris using the Sacrificial Creation Tool on a Deadly Parasitic Organism proved their undoing.

Then FOX decided to change what the Goo does as they go along and make a mess of what was  simply a Creation Tool.

If they continues with Spaights Engineers as far as the reasons for why they do this,  it shows us they Engineered their Race to make themselves Perfect and by doing so they eradicated their ability to Procreate.   This could then mean the Sacrificial Scene they hoped to achieve a Humanoid that could help them Procreate.

Thus at some point they encounter the Parasitic Organism that infected some Engineers and they Gave Birth to a Xeno Ancestor related Organism...  some Engineers saw this as a different way that they could now GIVE Birth to New Life and saw the result as interesting...  So they had a great regard and worship for the results of this Organism.

And began to experiment on it with their Creation Tool, in order to Perfect this Organism and doing so ended up costing them.

all entitled to their opinions

I just enjoy the idea, because Heaven is obviously not meant to be part of the story. The film deals in surreal convergences - like the Covenant crew staying at David's palace - which lends to the idea of Heaven being an allegory of the film

I don't want any sequel to Alien Covenant, because Covenant was too brilliant and perfect

couldn't have explained it better. at some point someone has had the brilliant idea to make it all about the AI after Prometheus thus abandoning everything Prometheus set up. between the mural giving us a hint into the original xeno's part in engineer society to the connection between lv223 and the derelict and the elders there was a huge story there. they could have done so much more, even creating a race above the engineers, wars etc, yet its been sand bagged n the prequels are focusing on just 1 thing now with a Cpl of monsters thrown in to shut us up. I said ages ago the prequels have to end in a way that does the derelict scene and original movie justice. to me, David being responsible doesn't do that. so keep it mysterious is my preference but if not, meh, don't care now. thanks to AC and Ridley's comments, iv lost all interest. ill watch awakening but ill wait for a good stream. 

I am with Ali81 I no longer care. 

The question of whom the Jockey was and its "cargo" has been devalued and mostly between Prometheus and Covenant. Whats so frustrating is it was so straight froward. From the opening of Prometheus it was obvious the sacrificial acolyte was connected to the answer. Somehow these guys messed up and out of that emerged the cargo. Prometheus should have made clear the ALIEN lifecycle was created as a conceit to mimic and replace/contaminate  the sacrificial lifecycle. It would have been obvious then that the Juggernaut left LV223 and got into trouble as the Engineers tried to abandon LV223. Hence the cargo hence the warning.

Similarly Elizabeths story could have been so simple she is infected by the pathagen through insemination and what is revealed in the next story is that exorcising the trilobite did not exorcise the down steam consequences of the pathogen on her. How much more interesting that the person of faith is transformed by the intervention than the mad robot angle. Elizabeth fall could have echoed the fall of the Engineers but hay ho we got what we got.    

a good point BigDave made on another thread, going off topic a bit, is the age certification that will come with Disney. I doubt wel get anything rated over pg13. I feel Disney will come up with good ideas and wev seen them push the boat out with CGI and having huge expanded worlds and space scenes so Disney are willing to expand on a franchises universe. the issue is Alien is based on horror. will Disney manage to do the franchise justice with a PG13 rating? or will they push the certification for this franchise to allow RS or someone else to really go for it?

my issue with RS and AC is more along the path of them dumping the expanded universe Prometheus opened us up to. all the theories and ideas we all talked about prior to AC about civil wars, engineer civilisation, higher powers etc just got scraped for David. wev been told the engineers will return so am I the only 1 who thinks hhmmm wonder whats gna happen to the ship they arrive on? oh wait, its the derelict from alien and David is responsible. its like thanks Prometheus but everything we could have got has been flushed n wer going in the easiest cheapest direction and all that wonder and mystery from the derelict scene gets ruined.

This image

As far as the back ground and those small Embryo like things... does match this concept from 2014 by Kang-Li

Which as well as other concepts by him, is very close to what the Source had told me, they got this information November 2014, so who knows.

But on the Plus side it allows us to use the clues to come up with our own answers in our heads in the way that pleases us ;)

I would be disappointed....

I think we will get a connection but its the case of will we see one in 5 years? 10 years?

The longer we go with no Answers... the more chance is we could just get a Re-boot of the Franchise i fear.

I totally understand the Direction of the Prequels from the Inception..  Lets go back in History

Ok so your doing a Alien Movie, which will be a Prequel because the Franchise never showed us HOW the Xenomorph was created or WHAT the Space Jockey was doing with that Cargo and WHY

RS had mentioned years before Prometheus about the Space Jockey and we had been told the Xenomorph was a Bio-Weapon the Derelict a Bio-Weapon Cargo Ship and the Space Jockey the Pilot.

so the set up is... the Xenomorph is a Bio-Weapon the Derelict was carrying it and we have to ask WHY/WHEN and WHERE was it going. The Space Jockey Race thus had been using these for Biological Warfare and so in regards to the Space Jockey we have to ask WHY

The WHY/WHAT/WHEN and HOW were the Bigger Questions, that the Plans was to Answer, once we tackle these Questions in this Paragraph, all we have to add to this is.. WHEN/HOW was the Xenomorph Created/Discovered. Once all of these are covered thats it... you Answered the Questions to ALIEN

But RS/FOX felt that in order to answer these, the WHY is the Big Question, Why Create/use the Bio-Weapon, for this they gave us a Plot to reveal the Space Jockey are Humanoids and not only that they created Mankind, and they then chose to DESTROY Mankind...  this was the WHY

FOX/RS  then came to a conclusion that actually the Engineers/Space Jockey Race are more interesting they have never been covered at all, and to explore them more would be the way to go as the Xenomorph is just a Weapon... it would be like Aliens coming to Earth to ask/want to know WHY we created the NUKE then the Process and showing what the Nuke does is not that important... the WHY it was created is, and then are NUKES and the reasons for them everything Aliens need to know about Mankind?  NO there is much more to us than that.

so this is WHY they chose to follow the Engineer/Creation Tale, the Xenomorph was a Bi-Product of a Bio-Weapon Experiments they had created to use on Mankind... simple as that... so Prometheus gave us clues to this but they was not SPOON-FED enough a direct link to the Xenomorph or the Space Jockey/Derelict Event...   But they felt enough clues was given and they then can explore the Engineers more but then not have to Spoon Feed the HOW/WHEN for the Xenomorph Eggs in Alien

The back lash for Prometheus, kind of made FOX think ok we need to bring the Xenomorph back, this is what Fans want and they are not interested in Shaw and Engineers, so they was by-passed.  So AC went on to start to connect to Alien, as far as the WHEN/HOW the Xenomorph came to be... with the WHY being the Big Question... but then RS threw in a Curve-Ball that the WHY is because of David as far as WHY he would do such a thing.   But this follows his Story Arc Set-up from Prometheus as far as Philosophical Creation Elements pertaining to David/Weyland.   But this route has upset a lot of Fans.

Prior to Alien Covenant.... Prometheus had the Answers, you just had to dig deeper but for a lot of Fans, ambiguous clues are not enough even though Prometheus clearly shows a Connection between the Black Goo, Xenomorph and Mural it does not EXACTLY say what this connection is, we can see the Derelict is related to the goings on that happened on LV-223 but it was never EXACTLY shown or told of as far as the Exact date but clues are there to say its about 2000 years ago....

Ridley Scott had to then go on record and explain EXACTLY but a bit vaguely the Event, and indeed it is directly connected to LV-223 Event only it happened within a few hundred years... THUS the Derelict Cargo either Led Directly to the Experiments a few hundred years latter on LV-223 or the Derelict Cargo was a result a few hundred years after the LV-223 Experiments/Outbreak.  

You could worked this out from Prometheus all apart from the Date... which RS then shown was either between the 2200-2100 years ago, or 1800-1900 years ago. 

But alas.... all this changed with AC.

red0guy  ahh. Well that is a problem isn't it lol. I always just assumed they were from the same studio. There you go. Good catch

I think its sad indeed how THEY gave in to what Fans want, or so they felt fans wanted, we see the same thing with The Last Jedi... they should have had a Plan A-Z with Star Wars EP 7-9 and if Fans moaned about EP7 do not change the plans....   The same applied to the Alien Prequels.

In Hindsight Prometheus toned down the Xenomorph connection to much, it also lacked any Alieny Attack Scenes, Zombie Fifield did not cut it, neither did the Hammerpede Attack...  They FOX felt ok so we need the Xenomorph and they did and this did not work... it was not due to the Xenomorph why AC did not work as well as it could it was again down to HOW it was used.

Sadly for FOX/RS they had to tell a Plot for both movies and introducing more Alieny Elements and Attack Scenes would require either a extra 20 min run time or taking out at least 10 mins of other things that the Stories were covering.

Also with Disney we cant rule out a COMPLETE Re-boot of the whole Franchise

As ed0guy pointed out Disney dont own Bladerunner Franchise i would like to see them not be connected but would be up for a spin off Alien Franchise movie that is similar to Bladerunner,  think we need to get a  Prequel to Alien and then allow Disney to assess how this has done and decide to

1) Leave the Franchise Alone

2) Do another Alien movie thats more Alieny

3) Do a movie to cover the Engineers

I think Disney wont be in no rush, and so this does mean a big problem for RS Prequel Plans, while they appeared to be on track... i would say they are now in limbo... i will add while Blomkamps Alien 5 seemed Dead in the Water i think there is a chance of its Resurrection.... i also think while 2 years ago another AVP sounded like a daft idea that wont happen... i think there is a chance a Disney AVP Reboot would be in the Cards.

Disney would look to cash in on those TWO iconic Monsters and Merchandise/Toys from both.

So going back to last year when AC Trailers had hit the screen...   A sequel to AC seemed pretty much nailed on.... now, i think its in a bit of limbo....   back then a Alien 5 was dead in the water, i now think its possible we could see one down the line (5-10 years) and i think the back then a AVP seemed unlikely but i now think and especially if  there is no movement on a Sequel to AC or Prequel to Alien in the next 3-4 years, then i think a AVP will be definitely on the cards... wait and see ;)