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Forgive the thread hijack. I know it's somewhat off-subject... I think AVP and the sequel COULD have been great. Awesome potential, crappy story and direction. Big top Pee Wee vs. Barney would have been better. If the original Predator and original Alien were matched up, with no or very little human interaction? It could have been great. But, we got crap that was intended to sell toys at Wal-Mart and run on nothing more than hype. At least Freddy Vs. Jason had some humor in it...

Certainly the crossover are destined to become crap merchandising. But at the same time the directors who directed these films were bad. And repeat, when I speak of a sane with the expansion of the universe factions of Alien am not talking about the predators. In fact my wish that this film will become the starting point of a new franchise or canon. with regard to the emergence of new races, my belief is that relate to the origin of the xenomorphs and its apparent relationship with the biomechanoids…I say: 1) If they are biological suits, then the perhaps mutants that have possibly been contaminated by the bioformer are slowly developing a suit of battle which was finished by making biological weapons; the ancestors of the classic xenomorph that we all know. (2) The Space Jockeys are creations like the xenomorphs. in that case in Prometheus should appear all powerful entities akin to gods and that they have created all the races of the franchise. (3) The Jockeys created the man and man created the xenomorphs, obviously using the stolen technology to comply with the objectives and ambitions of the weyland Corporation.

Sham, Regarding #3, I don't know thats kinda graspin. We wouldn't have the technology even at that time being that no one in Alien knew about the derelict and I am sure if prometheus was known by the company it would have probably been big news and thus everyone would have known what happened and all about the xenos. Being that Prometheus takes place 30 years before Alien. That is kind of an end around for the company and thus the humans to create the xenos, I can't buy it. Thats jsut my opinion though. Regards, Rick

You can't just say the predators are separate cause you didn't like AVP. In predator 2, you can see an alien skull in the trophy room, and that was BEFORE AVP. Just sayin, I think the predators could fit in the same universe, like it or not

just to put my two penny's worth in i'm a huge fan of alien and i liked the first predator film and the recent predators but as for the rest it was a terrible idea to cross over the two it brought the whole mythology of the alien franchise down to a popcorn fest and i lost interest immediatly. If your going to do that at the very least make it the best fucking movie possible for respects sake if nothing else but those two films were appalling in my eyes and many other peoples to. However i will say everyone's entitled to their opinion and i respect that but i figured the core alien fans have more taste lol.

i mean where do you stop how about species, or star trek/ star wars, why not merge those into the alien universe sounds silly doesn't it that's because it is.

I know most of you would kill me so I will comment below ...but it was long before having notion about Prometheus... I must admit that I expected an AVP 3. My wish was that this was carried out in the terrifying and dark corners of deep space, with the weyland yutani undertaking in an epic crusade of stellar conquest, and all this to make the Space Jockeys his grand final appearance. In AVP, we see that the Predators brought the xenomorphs to the Earth, but not who created them. Also saw that in the Hall of trophies Yautja had a skull of Space Jockey, this already can assume as it was the Predators found the race of the Xenomorphs. In my opinion the crossover might be legendary if they had the right direction. But is Prometheus which finally give solution to the mysteries and doubts about the space jockeys... Best regards

in the words of Ridley Scott when asked how do you feel about the avp films?.... With a sly grin/Grimace.......No comment its not for me to say... the least said about those the better.

certainly the issue of the predators this totally closed. Each race in a their own universe…

The AvP's were simply Predator Movies. With the humans and Xenos taking a co-starring role to help the Predator storyline thats about the extent of it. The Predator Genre needed a boost and there hadn't been a sequel in a LOOOONG Time. On a funny note, being that Fox owns both franchises lets just see Skynet take over the world while Weyland and Yutani corps are deep space businesses that left during Rise of the Machines. Then we have Terminators vs Predator vs Xeno vs Humans vs Space Jockeys and John Connor is really an android.

which then brings us to bladerunner just where does tyrell fit into all of this lol

Yeah, I think you are right Rick...good point...very lol by the way...

very funny alteredstate...lol

LOL I don't know I'll leave that one to you Altered

no fox can consult warner bros on that one ive got a headache i'm off to bed... alteredstate has left the building hubba hubba thank you very much goodnight.

I love to read the views of the people of this forum. In fact really respect the views of others, especially to see there are many people much more informed than me on these topics...

Yes a very interesting and comprehensible book. Makes a nice complement for "Giger´s Alien".

I agree that both movies are classics in the movie history. ALIEN being the first scary sci-fi horror with unique designs and ideas back in the days. ALIENS being a action-horror with realistic designs and great suspense and being different from the first movie. The 3rd movie was OK but was hard to match the first two. The 4th was a let down for hardcore Alien fans because the movie had too many funny moments and the dialogs were lame. Also the design of the alien creatures were rather grotesque losing the biomechanical elegance totally.

agree with you on the 4th movie at times the aliens looked like they had been coated with high gloss varnish, in the 1st the drool was from the mouth not the entire body.

Aliens is indeed a great film BUT just my opinion I prefered Alien its suspence horror imagination was just outstanding like I said on another post Lambert truely looked terrified the whole consecpt was just amazing this is why we keep putting on the blu-ray and watching over and over again

Well...

alien res for me was just weird! the black guy shoots the pistol at a wall and it starts to ricochet around til it the other guys head like were playin stupid zombies on the Itouch or ricochet kills on PC. kinda weird...and how long they can last under water. kinda weird/unhuman. alien 3 was my dissapointment. i think the whole "dog alien" was just wrong. and i would like to know who told them saying the word f*ck a million times in each scene would make it a good movie!

No kidding pax. You might be able to get your hands on it, but it still slips through... Like drowning almost. Then you wake up and think you survived something that should have killed you. Time to celebrate! Then you get stabbing chest pains.... Talk about a bad day!

Seeing as the facehugger melts through Kane's helmet in 'Alien', the 1ST and thus ORIGINAL film with the ORIGINAL idea, then I think I have to say no, I don't have a problem with it....and furthermore, I would then say that I have a problem with Cameron's rewrite of the concept in 'Aliens'.....One of the most imporant things about making any sequel is the integrity of continuity from one story to the next...The failure, and it is a failure, to maintain that continuity and thus, the integrity of the story, falls sqaurely on the shoulders of the sequel's writer, not the original's.

and btw there are no "melting" signs on kane's face ... just the ones of a very strong "grip" .... we can say that something so strong to break the glass of an helmet should not be stopped so easily with hands ...but are just movies come on ...

I always thought it was a matter of not damaging or causing injury to the host. It burned through Kane's faceplate, but didn't cause any injury to his face when it actually landed.

I agree with craigamore. Alien was the original, and as good as some of what followed were, there were some huge variations from what it began as. Some definite compromises afterward for sure. I'm probably gonna catch grief for even saying this- but I've always viewed what came after Alien as something like a "spin-off", and not what was originally envisioned by Ridley. There were SOME great films, but nothing compared to the first. I hate the term "canon", because it's fiction- but what was original is what worked best. Aliens was a great action movie, but it would have been just as good with another group of monsters. They just weren't the same thing.

Alien was dark and the mythos was even darker. Aliens was way different and great as an action movie but as the series progressed, the darkness was taken away and ruined by people who had no idea what they were doing. I believe that FH could control the acid and secret the, just enough to get to the host without damaging him...as we saw with the melted helmet of Kane's...

Interesting opinions... I never really noticed this... I think maybe once ripely got it in her hands, it was easyer to deffender herself. When Kane got facehugged, he never got a chance to get a grip on it... Just a thought...

as he said frantz, the facehugger was able to pass through the glass of a helmet. Curiously in aliens we see one in captivity inside a tube of glass similar to the Star Wars movies bacta tanks. However we see that the creatures are completely trapped. Certainly in aliens do not respect the original canon of Ridley, but is due in large part to the fact that it is an action film where we needed to see the marines kicking ass aliens. But obviously the official canon is established by Ridley...

I should have mentioned this earlier. In no way am I being sarcastic or degrading the original post. It's just my opinion. I mean NOT to offend anyone... It can replace it's cells with silicon-based cells, just because it works better that way in a new environment, all the while providing it's 'host" with whatever it needs to survive the impregnation process, it's blood can eat through steel and all kinds of composites, it can break through bones and flesh while still relatively tiny, it grows to seven feet in a matter of hours, and it eats people while excreting enough super glue to build a hive the size of Home Depot. Yeah, I can except it secreting whatever it needed to for getting in a helmet. Cameron just made some compromises to make his scenes work for his version of the creature. Aliens was a good movie, but NOT like the original. Apples and oranges.

The way I always saw it was that the reason the facehuggers couldnt escape the tanks in med lab was because of the stasis field that surrounded it as I do recall this "field" being mentioned a few times as well as in the novelisation. As for the helmet the hugger hit it with force and if you watch the movie you can see it takes a few seconds to get thru the facesheild...... God what a horror that would have been to see eating thru knowing you couldnt take your helmet off but you also couldnt stop this thing....... terrifying

Mabey if it used acid to break the glass, then they could haves used a machine to drain them of their acid and then put them in the glass tube thing

Just an idea

That would be a pretty crapy day...

I will say that I do find 'Aliens' and 'Alien 3' entertaining, but they just aren't what they should or could be...you know?

I look at the sequels exactly the same way aintnozeno, and I'll take it a step further.....the reason people like you and I feel as though these films fall short, seem off in some way or just down right get it wrong ('Alien Ressurection', 'AVP', 'AVPR') is that 'Alien' made it very clear what it was...sc-fi/horror...there's no mistaking that. It's in the movie's DNA, to borrow Ridley's 'Prometheus'-'Alien' characterization. The sequels, starting with 'Aliens', morphed from sc-fi/horror into sc-fi/action adenture. AND BECAUSE CAMERON FELT MORE COMFORTABLE WITH ACTION, not because it suited the material. Cameron and every director that followed (Fincher did come back to horror somewhat), seemed to miss that aspect of the original's identity. 'Alien' is a horror film at its core. And you must look at it that way. A flim's genre is, comparatively, the overriding structure of its individual fingerprint. To alter the genre of a story from one film to its sequels is to rob it of its identity and that, for a storyteller, is basically a sin...it's a bastardization...it's wrong.

...And then there's the "Bull-Alien" I saw in Walmart a few years back. Shame. Like you say: Apples and oranges... or in that case, apples and poop.

Oh yeah, and the face-hugger and acid/mask topic... I agree with it using any means to get to a host and then instantaneously being able to neutralize its secretions so as not to leave it (Cain) with a severe case of pizza face (or raw hamburger face). To be able to execute that in a fraction of a second... what a perfect organism.