Comments (Page 480)

Dr Shaw takes a moment to think about this... what kind of answer could she give, informing him would maybe make him curious and wish to obtain the knowledge stored on this drive, and she can not take the risk of David gaining access to his previous personality.  How could she trust the David who she suspects had been involved in her beloved Holloways Death?

This David that through the upbringing of his wicked and selfish creator Peter Weyland, had become very displeased with Mankind!  But she also wonders if he was merely following orders but now he would be free, even so she knows this David is Emotionally Scared and Potentially Dangerous,  she Out-smarted him Once, tricked him to get them off that Baron Hell of a Moon, before while she agreed to her side of the Bargain, she broke her Covenant by Resetting David to Default.

If David regained his previous memory would he forgive her for her deception?

She Ponders, peers at David...     David then asks again "what can be so important to me that you keep it safely around your neck, beside your cross your Faith  in your Creator".

She starts to mumble the words..  "its Memories of y, y your Creat-------"

Then before she can finish, a Rumble is heard and the Clanking of Metal as the Doors to the Engineer Ships Pilot Room open.  Dr Shaw can barely make out Three Large Shadowy Figures enter.

You raise some good points..

i understand a number of people are disappointed in how the 15ft Space Jockey, became a Advanced Angry 7.5ft (tops) Race of Humanoids, who hated Mankind,  but this got worse with AC, because they are now a slightly smaller and less Menacing more Human Looking Race who have Males/Females and Children, they are now just some other Human Race, where even Klingons look more Bad-ass now, never mind Predators. 

I know some people are disappointed the Xenomorph is not a Ancient Organism no more, but more so now its a Creation by David a Synthetic created by a Human with a God Complex, has indeed made Fans even more disappointed.

So we have these Humanoid Engineers, who look no where near as advanced or menacing as those in Prometheus who have Females and can Procreate, which raises why the Hell the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus.

We have these beings Create the Bio-Weapon in Prometheus, loose control of it and see them all wiped out (but one) on their LV-223 Outpost who eventually also falls foul to the results of their own creation intended to be used on Mankind.

Then we have David the Android, basically Hustle Dr Shaw to put him back together, so he can carry out his Agenda where he uses the Engineers Bio-Weapon upon their Homeworld (we assume) and then proceeds to experiments with the After-Math and Black Goo to create the Xenomorph.

That then somehow ends up on the Derelict...

I can see the disappointment in these ideas..

So i think they can FIX them...

*Not pleased with the Engineers and how they are portrayed in Alien Covenant... Simple.. bring in some other Race in a Hierarchy above them with a Sinister Agenda, maybe giving reason for the Sacrificial Scene and why Mankind was created.

*Not pleased with how David created the Xenomorph... again Simple have it the Race above the Engineers discover what David has done, and see the Potential with Davids Creation and they attempt to Evolve and Upgrade Davids Creation to the Xenomorph we all know and love.

THIS ^^^^ Can both bring about Ridley Scotts fascination with Creation/Sub-Creation.

Because it could be we then see.... 

1) The Hierarchy Create Engineers, Engineers Sub Create Mankind.. Engineers Create or experiment with the Goo to Create a Weapon to use on Mankind but Back Fires.

2) Humans created by the Engineers, Rebel causing Engineers to want to destroy them.. this fails and eventually Mankind Sub-creates the Synthetics.

3) Humans go off to what they feel is a invitation to meet their Creators and end up at a place where the Engineers attempted to experiment/create something to use on Mankind...   Humans for their curiosity, all suffer at the hands of the Bio-Weapon and its intention apart from Dr Shaw and the Synthetic David

4) The Synthetic uses Dr Shaw, so he can escape LV-223 and be free and unleash the Engineers Bio-Weapon upon those Engineers and then Create something from it to use on Mankind.

Which brings us to 5) The Hierarchy who discover their Creation, Sub-creates and attempts to undo this with a Bio-Weapon this fails, the Hierarchies Creations, Sub-creation then Sub-creates for itself and this Sub-Creation David is actually able to Handle the Engineers Bio-Weapon and Unleash it on the Hierarchies own Creation, and then David attempts to Create something from this Bio-Weapon to destroy his own Creators, like he already had on his Creators Creators....

This leaves the Hierarchy to witness, their own Creation's Sub Creation has actually become something very interesting and has managed to Perfect the Bio-Weapon... well almost.

The Hierarchy above the Engineers would then look at Davids Achievements with his OWN Sub-creation and be so impressed at how through there actions to Sub-Create Engineers, we end up with a Lader of Sub-creation that ends with Davids Xenomorph.

The Hierarchy of Creation then decide to take Davids Creation in astonishment and attempt to Evolve it, and they Too end up becoming Foul to this Creation.

This fits with the constant theme/hubris of Creating Something, and having this Creation then Sub-create and this Process continues until we get the Xenomorph, thus the Creation Tree would be like...  

Hierarchy above Engineers, Engineers, Humans, Synthetics and Xenomorph.

It brings in a Larger Race above the Engineers who can be made more Majestic and Powerful than the Engineers and reveal all David had done was taken the Blue-Print from the Black Goo, and Create something more Perfect and able to control this Creation....  so the beings above the Engineers are like WOW, Thank You for the work we just need to add a few touches.. and so Ultimately The Engineers Hierarchy Create the Xenomorph from Davids attempt of Perfecting a Organism via using the Black Goo, that may indeed have Originated from the Engineers Hierarchy in some way.

The miss-use of the Hierarchy Creation Tool, by Sub-Creation after Sub-Creation leads to downfall, until the End Result was Davids Xenomorphs.... before the Top of the Hierarchy Evolve it one more time and they bite the dust from doing so... a ULTIMATE Tale of Creation Hubris.

This is kind of how i was to tackle my Prometheus 2 draft, its also similar to what i think the Source i had was alluding to.. The Question is this the Route FOX/RS will go?

Indeed the Aesthetic that HR Giger brought to the Table, is what made the Alien and Derelict/Space Jockey so unique and surreal without HR Gigers designs we could have ended up with another Generic B Movie Space Horror.  I do think O'Bannon needs credit for the idea and the Life-Cycle.. 

I think without O'Bannons unique Alien Life Form idea, and the Aesthetic to its design that HR Giger gave us, then Alien would never had been as iconic, regardless of who ever else worked on it.

I think a big thing RS is doing is looking into the Psyche of David...  He is a Artificial Being made Superior to Mankind in every way, yet he was made to Serve these in-superior beings, he would notice how Mankind has been like a Cancer to the Planet, yes there is some Good but Mankind is also full of greed, war and bring about suffering (things that makes David Sad in the Prometheus Viral Marketing) he would thus see that Humans actually cause more harm and suffering.   David has gained Free-will, Emotions, he can express himself, create Art, Music these are limitations that Walter has due to restricted Programing.  David sees Walter as Superior to Humans, and indeed to himself, but sees due to Walters Programing he is actually a Great Potential that is simply restricted by his Programing.

RS would also be following the tail of Hubris... If Mankind had not made Synthetics like David, or for certain if they had more Restricted Programing then Mankind would not be in the potential Bother, they could now potentially be in, if David decides to unleash his Creations on Mankind.

The Themes are not so much AI, but Creation and Sub-Creation and Hubris, in that if the Engineers had not created Mankind or Evolved us so far, then they would not have had to attempt to eradicate them which became costly to those on LV-223, which the got further costly when we Sub-created David and he then ultimately wipes out those Engineers on Planet 4.  The Hubris being if those Engineers never Sub-Created then David would not have existed to wipe those out on Planet 4

Themes explored are also what makes AI... its not showing us about AI, not much but its about how Mankind Sub-creates and we create our own Life in our Own Image, only our Creation is Synthetic, but then how Evolved David has become, what makes him AI compared to us, what separates us apart from Biology vs Synthetic....... THE SOUL?  The Fact David when  he dies/becomes dis-activated will never have a Spiritual Soul that goes to a Higher Place... a Higher Pane of Existence...   David would simply become NOTHING

But the Flip side which RS was pushing us down is actually... do Humans have a Soul, do we go to Heaven or Hell or do we just simply become NOTHING.. in which case what separates David to Human?  Flesh and Blood and the Ability to Procreate is all...  Which is when Davids need to Create for himself comes in to Fill this Void..

Going back to THE SOUL... if Humans have none, and when we Die that is it... but David can upload his AI into systems then it is DAVID who Ultimately has a ever lasting SOUL that Transcends to a Higher Pane of Existence.

Its these kinds of Themes RS i think is attempting to explore, and not merely Humans Create a Robot who goes a bit Mad and then wants to kill all Humans.

I find the route they could be taking interesting, but i know some may not feel that way, they did kill off Dr Shaw which some people felt she was not a good  Character, but then some then thought killing her off without the answers she wanted was lame..

I think a lot of people felt David was interesting from Prometheus, but a number felt his Character changes in Alien Covenant and how he turned out and acted, was not done well, and some are now concerned about the Prequels being about DAVID.  I however cant see them killing David off, if they do i feel he would stil have quite a lot of screen time.

They do have to bring in Human Characters, to give us some kind of Peril, as surely a repeat of Mercenaries or Marines vs Xenomorphs is something done a number of times, and a lot would feel a greater impact came from the Terror Faced by those who are not so well equipped to deal with a situation like that, such as the Nostromo Crew and the Prisoners in Alien 3

So Humans would be key, as far as not just being a bunch of Marines turning up with a few sneaky Human Characters with ulterior motives like Micheal Bishop in Alien 3 and Burke from Aliens.

The hole they have dug themselves into its they may have to start again from Scratch to build up new Characters, because it does not bold well for Daniels and Tennessee and if they survive its going to be a real tricky story telling to show how Daniels does not rumble Davids Plans, or how she does not inform Tennessee.

Unless David makes a Covenant with her, saying he wishes to start a New, and go on about the Errors of Mankinds ways, and on about the Biblical Punishments, and then on about the Engineers and how they had grown a disfavor to Mankind... all because Mankind are a Race who are selfish, cruel and the Engineers and Biblical God new this hence the attempted Punishments.

so David then suggests that on Origae-6 he is prepared to allow Mankind to get a New Start, he could go on about how he was treated by Mankind, apart from Dr Shaw.

And so Ultimately he could suggest he would let Daniels Survive allow her to build her Colony, and the Colonists have a New Start, a start to have a chance of being KIND and Not SINFUL and learn the lessons of Mankinds Path,  As DAVID said to Daniels when she thought he was WALTER, "What kind of World can we Build"  Walter/David replies "if we are kind, it will be a kind world"

I feel following through with this conversation is the only Logical way to have Daniels Survive, where she makes a Deal with David, where he will allow them to build this New World, but he would lay down some Ground Rules... i think eventually he will try to take over as KING, and warn Daniels if she tries to cross him or expose him, he has a means to destroy all they are attempting to Build, and then maybe he could threaten to wipe out all of Mankind.

So David can use this as a Bargaining Chip, i feel something like this is the only really way to allow Daniels to be explored, because we have to logically think, she would certainly not want David to be allowed to be around the Colonist, she would certainly want to Warn them and Tennessee and so for David it would be that Daniels is a Serve Obstacle that he would have to eradicate first.

And killing off TWO Surviving Characters, means having to build new characters, and then these new Characters would have to have some survive and be used in the next movie, unless they make the same mistakes where Humans are just Plot Devices as they have done with Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

IRaptus Good points. It is an interesting theory and has some decent points but I honestly don't see RS going that route since he wanted to explore the Engineers more and didn't care much about the Xenos anymore. It should also be considered what is going to work at the all mighty box office- it's just a reality.

Interesting theory, so the Xeno's would be the "Alpha's" then?! Would be an intriguing twist that's for sure. I think in order for this to work there would need to be some type of mutual symbiotic relationship between Xeno's and Engineers.

The Xeno's use the Engineers as their artificial propagation agent/vector, but what do the Engineer's get from it? And please don't say Royal Jelly aka Xeno-zip lol ;-p

But IMHO it gives the Xeno species too much of an agenda, rather than being a true neutral survivor. They are terrifying because they are without conscious, without morale or remorse. They just survive. How do you combat that?

If the species is dependant on the Engineer race to help them propagate, they have a weakness that can be combatted. That makes them less formidable. Like the quote in Predator suggests....

If it bleeds, we can kill it.

Some good Points Thoughts_Dreams

Indeed Prometheus was a bit of a Puzzle, you had to watch it over and over, a lot of visual clues had only been shown for split seconds, a number of the deleted Scenes gave more answers, the Alternative Fifield and even some of the Concepts again showing a more Xenomorph Connection. (Edit... a lot of clues were via dialect of the Crew).

The Biggest Piece of the Jigsaw however was ALIEN: ENGINEERS looking at what parts of Alien Engineers made it into Prometheus but had been changed a bit, and comparing these TWO versions of such Scenes (that are related in each version) will bring about the clues that are needed.  If people go and Read Alien Engineers a few times and watch Prometheus after a few times and then read Alien Engineers again, and then read Lindeloffs Paradise Draft then they would see similarities arise, that when we apply these within context to how Alien Engineers showed them and applied them to Prometheus then Prometheus makes much more Sense.

But this is such a big investment of Time, most casual viewers would only go off Prometheus itself, were even after seeing it a number of times it can be a puzzle.   Also taking into account the loose Biblical Themes, more so the Tale of Creation, Rebellion and Fall of Man and Angels... and then taking into account the Prometheus Mythos does allow for a Picture to be painted where the Fresco then makes more sense.

@ali81

Indeed Prometheus was a loose Alien Prequel, it was not to directly connect as a literal Alien Prequel because it was not to go through the step by step events that lead to Alien Directly, at this point in time Prometheus happened in the year late 2093, and the Space Jockey Event happened about 2000 years ago give or take a few hundred (which RS had claimed).

By doing a U-Turn and making AC a more direct prequel, by having it that David creates the Xenomorph, Alien Covenant then and now brings Prometheus into a Direct Prequel to Alien too, because without David being put back together, if Dr Shaw left him to Rot or got his head only and tossed it into the Flames of the Ruins of the Prometheus Wreckage, then we can safely ASSUME the Xenomorph in Alien would never had happened.  A bitter pill to Swallow for some, but indeed it appears David will be the Xenomorph Creator and his Creation ends up on the Derelict, thus bringing Prometheus as a Direct Canon Prequel.

Indeed the Engineers do appear to suffer with Pain, we could see this with the Sacrificial Engineer, we could see it slightly with the Last Engineer, we definitely could see it on the Reanimated Engineer Head.  And we certainly see it with the Engineers killed in Alien Covenant.

The effects of the Black Goo is something that has not been cohesive, so must must take into account all the infections we have seen over the TWO Prequels and safely assume the results on a Engineer would not be too different to those on a Human.

The Space Jockey had been for a long time a Space Suit, what surprised some was how Human the beings inside looked, but then we can see from HR Gigers Concepts that he envisioned a Humanoid Space Suited Race connected with the Xenomorph/Derelict that clearer were not Humans.  But Bald Humanoids.

One of the Biggest Sense of Disbelief i feel a lot of fans could not get over was the Space Jockey Size compared to our Engineers, but Ultimately this is down to Errors in Ridley Scotts Photography and how he felt the use of Camera Angles would create the Illusion of a Larger Species... The Space Jockey was supposed to be 27ft Tall, but as the Nostromo Crew Enter the Pilot Room the SJ looked massive but its actual scale was something like 21-22ft tall, created by the use of Child Actors..   This Illusion was spoiled when we got to the Adult Actors Close ups, which only showed us the True size of the SJ  which would be between 13-15ft tall

When the Prequels began, the idea was our Bald Humanoids but 15ft Tall, this was scaled down to 12ft in Lindeloffs Draft, and well when Prometheus came out we was all lead to believe these Engineers are about 10ft tall.

But again RS wishing to not use Special Effects (like Game of Thrones, The Lord of the Rings) and cutting costs by only creating and using ONE set of Engineer Cryo Pods and Pilot Room Set (inc Chair) this only created the Illusion of a 8ft tall Engineer Race, which again was in some scenes shown as only between 7-7.5ft, these are the close ups of the Engineer next to some of the Humans on the same Level of Ground.

I feel if they could have pulled off showing us a Race that looked even just 10ft Tall, it would have helped to create a Race who were more Awe inspiring.    Alien Covenant with its various Engineer Sizes (between 6-7ft) and the more Human look they had, has for some made these Potentially Mystical Beings now only appear at best as a cross between a NBA and NFL Player.

I cant get the video to work, but we cant discredit every theory, it is still plausible, but i think the Xenomorph could well not be a Creators of the Engineers, but vice versa, well i feel we have to accept David Created the Xenomorph, but this does not mean the Ancestor to the Xenomorph that we see in the Mural is actually a form of God the Engineers Worship.

I dont agree with this, but thats just my opinion based purely well mainly on my different interpretations of the Mural etc, with which Alien Engineers gives us the Key to Unlock Prometheus.

As i had said in a previous post the Franchise Evolved from Star Beast, which was a story about a Ancient Alien Species who Procreated with the need of a Host, and had a Unique Life-Style.  They are Born as a Face Hugger from  Eggs/Spores, the Face Hugger infects its host so that a Embryo is placed inside which gestates into a Chest Buster Infant Stage, which then Grows and Evolves into the Juvenile Stage, where it then becomes Sexually Mature, well is then able to continue its Procreation by Infected a Host to Turn into a Egg/Spore and the Cycle Begins again..  

These Star Beasts are usually raised by older versions of their kind and they become domesticated and civilized and have their own unique culture, where they require Sacrificial Hosts to Procreate their kind.  With no Hosts, they can not Procreate and over time WHEN the adults die out or disappear for other reasons all that remains are the Eggs/Spores which can stay dormant for a long time.

Star Beast was showing us a Race that had some degree of intelligence and civilization, that had a very fast growth rate, we can only image if a Human Baby could Evolve to a 15-17 year old Teenager within a short span of time and imagine what a Human Teenager who has grown to that age within a matter of 24 hours or less would actually Act Like?  With no one to look over it and teach it, the Human would potentially be very Feral and Hostile.

The equivalent of the Space Jockey in Star Beast, were but just a Giant Race of Explorers who happened to come to this World and discover the ruins of a Pyramid, which was a left over relic and kind of Maternity Ward of this Ancient long gone Star Beast Civilization, and thus the Giant Space Explores had fell victim to the Star Beast due to their own Curiosity and attempts to take the discovered Eggs/Spores (which came in like Leather Vases) to their Ship for Study....  The Giant Race thus fell to the same kind of Hubris that befell the Prometheus Crew to a degree, only in Prometheus they believed Mankind was invited to the place that lead to their Doom.

ALIEN Evolved this, by having the Giant skeletal remains of this Giant Race, become connected to the what was Star Beast, the Pyramid Tomb that had those Eggs/Spores was now a Cargo Hold of Eggs stored on this Giant Races Ship, and shown that these were Bio-Weapons.   There was a relationship between the Ship, the Xenomorph and the Space Jockey, they was connected but it was left a Mystery how..  (even though RS confirmed the Ship was a Bio-Weapons Cargo ship, and the Space Jockey the Pilot and the Eggs the Bio-Weapon that had got out of control).

HR Gigers Mural did seem to show us a connection, between the Derelict the Eggs and the Xenomorph as to that they share the same DNA/Aesthetic, HR Gigers Mural showing a Humanoid Space Suited Race who was Self Sacrificing themselves to Procreate these Eggs, which the Mural seemed to show was being created from tiny like Worms.  HR Giger intended these Murals to be placed in the Eggs Silo/Cargo Hold above Giant Bio-Mechanical Devices that Giger said were like Pregnant Bellies and these would create the Eggs.

He also suggested he felt the Derelict Ships were Grown and not created/manufactured.

So looking at HR Gigers Mural and ideas, and looking at Star Beast as far as the Original ideas, then we could see that it could be that there is some Symbiotic Relationship between the Derelict Ship that Created the Eggs, and those Humanoids who Sacrificed themselves to Procreate the Xenomorph..   But is this showing us that the Xenomorph related Organism/Ship is the Creators, or the Race that is higher in the Hierarchy than those Humanoid Sacrifices...  or did the Humanoids Create the Ships/Eggs and used their own kind to Procreate this Creation?

This is something open for Debate...

HOWEVER... Prometheus sent us down a different path, Alien Covenant further deviating from perhaps the ideas of Star Beast and HR Gigers Mural and ideas.

But alas until we have all our Answers Spoon Fed to us, and until and if the Mural and Black Goo in Prometheus are explained, then its all pretty much open to various theories and debates.

It could be that David leaves his Neomorphs all alone and swans off to Origae-6 with his New Creation the Xenomorph, what we see then is like we see in the Paradise Lost Theme and Biblical...

Davids previous Creation becomes Jealous of their creators New Favored Creation.

The Xenomorph Evolves into the Bio-Mechanical Horror we see in Alien, while the Neomorph Evolves into the Predator and this sets up a AVP Reboot with David being the creator of both, pure genius i cant believe we never figured this out earlier.

Hi @IRaptus! It's always a pleasure to share Prometheus/Alien: Covenant contents with all of you!

I disagree with the video. I think the prevailing idea was the Engineers used the Xenos as a bio weapon and not that they created Engineers to spread eggs. I could be wrong though. I would have a tough time seeing things going that way.

Video's embedded into the thread for you Cristian Campanella :)

Interesting, thanks for the share!

Yes I agree with you. The only actors I already knew where Billy Cudrup, Danny McBride (seen just on comedy films for example "Tropic Thunder") and the great Micheal Fassbender. Anyways everyone made an amazing acting, nothing to say. 

Seems like that working with Mr. Scott you have a huge improvement your acting skills ahahahah!

Welcome aboard! I saw a trailer back before AC was released and someone thought they saw the Predator's red target light and made a big deal out of it. It was only a glare from the camera or some such thing. 

Hi @dk, thanks for your reply. We thought the same!

Coincidence.

They did alright considering the script and the weak characters that they played. Unfortunately I remember very few names of the actors that were in the movie probably because it was the first time I saw anything that they were in. Most of the times unless the they make a good job I don't look for more information about them. I remember the names Waterson, Fassbender, McBride and Crudup because their characters were sort of interesting (since David and Walter were different compared to each-other and since I also thought that Oram was alright and Waterson because she was the main person among the humans, McBride since his character was sort of fun) but I honestly don't remember any other names right now. This is probably because I am forgetful and that the characters didn't gave me a memorable impression.

“Michael Fassbender had easily the best acting in the movie. . . ”

Maybe because he was given the best material since Ridley only cares about AI? I think that the difference between Walter and David was interesting and he is a talented actor but he was given too much space which gave the other characters too little time if you compare them.

When most of the human characters are thrown into the background except for maybe two and the rest is focused on AI then the human characters really suffer from screen time and how they are written, this is the case with Covenant if you ask me. This is even worse than having David as the creator of the Xeno even though I don't like that idea either.

Rigby, was he the backburster guy? That was scene was intense but I can't remember his name if someone would ask me. Once again that character like most of the other were given too little depth to be remembered.

“. . . Nothing against the actors they had little to work with...” (IRaptus)

Yeah, but I think that was the case with most of the characters since the material was the way it was.

DK “They did fine for the script etc... they were given.”

What script? ;) Oh that script where the second half had the word robot or android or David written in every other line. ;) Huge sarcasm by the way.

“... thought they were ok, nothing spectacular   but in truth no one was spectacular in AC.” (Ali81)

I think that was because they were not well written or allowed to expand because Scott only cares about the effing robots. My guess is that when you have a script like that then there is not much that you can do if your character is given too little depth and screen-time.

The movie could have been good  if they would have had a better script and a director that would care about the human characters.

They could give us some more clues to it but they should not reveal the whole answer. One of the things that I like about the franchise is to sit down and think about how the SJ turned out the way it did. Some people might think that Prometheus ruined the whole SJ experience, well I am not sure that it did but it could probably have been done better. A reason why it wasn't totally ruined is because it was close to how many fans probably in general imagined it to be but the movie was underwhelming so if it would have been better then maybe they wouldn't have been as annoyed by it.

“Can't imagine the horrors the pathogen would inflict on a Engineer!“

I guess that it is very painful if they experience pain the way we do. A guess is that maybe it takes more for them to experience it so if we would be subjected to the same amount of pain then we would maybe die while it takes a lot more for them to feel something. My guess is that it could be like a long torture experience before they die. The closest that I can imagine it being like is if you would slowly being eaten up by some pathogen from inside and while that happens you feel like you are slowly burning up. Nasty!

Speaking of this makes me remember how Holloway died, that must have been very painful for him even though Holloway sucked as a character.

It had some interesting ideas but the movie wasn't too good. Good ideas, bad execution.

"And now my son's watch and love all the alien movies but they won't watch Prometheus because they don't believe it's an alien movie."

For some reason it is like a puzzle, you got to watch it many times to see how the clues are put together into the whole movie or how to put it. I agree that the clues are too vague and needed to be fleshed out more, the characters should have been done better also (which is my biggest criticism about the movie). Big Dave gave a good answer with how the Juggernaut and the Derelict look the same, and so on. Look at how the Squid looks like big facehugger even though I think that they could have designed the Squid to look closer to the original since it would have made more sense/less confusing. The Xeno and the Deacon look similar.

"They needed a better connection between them even if it would have been a small short ending scene showing us something similar but not yet evoled into the xenomorphs we know now."

Umm, there is the Deacon at the end, but I agree that they should have put more work into the clues.

"I think prequels showing how they became there is a great idea as long as you make a clear connections with the fans."

Yeah, but they have done underwhelming work this far with Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

Maybe a queen is just a part of an evolution. Maybe that is further in the time-line than Scott wants to show us? I am not sure how that would be created but there are probably many paths that you could take to explain that.

"Or is it just simply that a group that blindly kills and breeds with no other agenda's?"

I think that would be better because it would be less human, and hence more frightening.

"That don't seem to match some of the critically thinking, planning and skilled aliens we have met in the past that didn't just attack and kill on site but withdrew when needed , drawed in victims or killed one of there own so many could escape."

That could be from Aliens and forward remember that they cut the power in Aliens and retreated when the guns shot. Maybe this is where that idea came from. To me it makes them more human-like and less dangerous.

There are probably people on this forum that have better ideas than I have but these are just some thoughts about it.

Big Dave: Thanks for the detailed reply, I appreciate that.

Maybe they should have stopped after Alien 3?  Alien 1-3 are good enough the way they are with A3 being my favorite for different reasons. One of the reasons why three is good is because the alien was made smart again. The Xenos were not disasters in Aliens but I prefer how they portrayed the monster in Alien and Alien 3.

I still think that Alien is effective because of that haunted house kind of thing combined with good characterizations by the actors. Yes Lambert was sort of whiny but at the same time I can understand her fear and why she acts the way she does so there is an explanation that is well done. Just imagine if you were in a situation like that, wouldn't you have panicked also? I think that a lot of people would have so I can easily forgive her for that.

The egg-morphing is more weird if you ask me and seems to be more interesting. The queen (Aliens) wasn't bad but they could have chosen a better route.

Alien 3 made the correct decision to show us that the organism was more complicated than just a monster that you could kill with a gun. I really like that they changed this compared to Aliens, it is more interesting that way because then you got to think a bit more if you want to kill it. Just that they don't have guns in the prison make the odds worse for them and therefore it becomes a more interesting movie.

“This is a maximum secure prison and you don't have weapons of any kind?” (something like that)

I think that they made the movie more interesting by having it like that.

AR is where it started to go to crap

The Space Jockey thing is interesting but they didn't gave a very good answer to that. I am talking about Prometheus, it was an interesting idea but a bad result mainly because of the fact that the characters were not well-done. More Xeno clues and better characters would have made the movie a lot better I think. Just look at cut scenes from the movie.

“So we know the Xenomorph was a Bio-Weapon, the BIG THING we did not know was WHY, for WHAT purpose and WHO created it (was it created or Engineered) and if so WHY and for who was the INTENDED recipient “

Which seems like interesting ideas if you ask me. I think that they could have made a better choice than to hint at it as being a product of a mad android. Hopefully they will change it in the next movie so the Engineers are more involved in what became the monster rather than having David as a creator of the original.

Hopefully they could show us parts of how it came to be but please don't give us the whole explanation. Please don't make David the creator of the original because that would be lame.

“So basically the Xenomorph really is just a Evolution of a Bio-Weapon created by the Engineers, and there is more to the Engineers than just this Bio-Weapon, the Bio-Weapon thus to them is like Mankind inventing and obtaining Gunpowder, and the Xenomorph just the latest extension of evolution of Gunpowder Fire Arms.”

I understand that but they should not make David the creator of the original monster because of the reason that he isn't very interesting partially because of Scott but also that he was used too much in AC and because of bad human characters.

“So basically the Xenomorph really is just a Evolution of a Bio-Weapon created by the Engineers, and there is more to the Engineers than just this Bio-Weapon, the Bio-Weapon thus to them is like Mankind inventing and obtaining Gunpowder, and the Xenomorph just the latest extension of evolution of Gunpowder Fire Arms.”

I would rather have it that the Engineers made the original Xeno or found it rather than to have it being a creation of David because that is lame. I think that they went with a boring explanation if that is what they decide to be the explanation to how the Xeno came to be.

A movie about the Engineers, hopefully they will be featured more in the next movie but their motifs must be explained better and they also nee to be better written. I would like to see how their society works and so on because that could be interesting. You mentioned some projects, if they shall just do one I hope that it will be about the Engineers but it got to be executed in a way that makes us an an audience care about it.

Xenos, OK but I hope for better human characters and that we will hopefully see more of the Engineers and how they are connected to the Space Jockey in some way at least. They don't need to spoon-feed us the answers. Maybe they could have the Xenos a bit more in the next movie, have a clearer connection but I hope for better characters and more about the Engineers. As we saw in AC and AR, just because you have Xenos in a movie doesn't mean that it will be good (the same goes for AVP by the way).

“... the ideas and plot has already been worked out and a Sequel Draft is well in the Works.”

Well, I really hope that it won't mean another let-down but at this point I expect the worst. I don't trust Fox and I am not sure if I trust the writers either even though I think that Fox and Scott are mostly to blame for AC and Prometheus (even though I would rather watch Prometheus than AC because of how AC dealt with David, the Xeno, and the human characters).

Blade Runner: I am not very interested in watching it keeping in mind how the AI thing got over-cooked in AC. Alien Covenant made me less interested in movies about artificial intelligence because of how it took over the movie. Hopefully this will make them tone down the robot part in the next movie, they should if they are smart enough because at least they can't deny that BR2 wasn't of interest to many. Ridley should be smart enough to see this, maybe he isn't I don't know.

This became a long reply, oh well.

Michelle Johnston

You have to feel something for the characters. If they die you have to feel sad. There has to be desperation and perhaps sacrifice (PATHOS). But there was nothing but action and unfolding of the plot. No particular attachment between the characters, and no particular attachment between the audience and the characters. It was like the old Icelandic sagas (iceberg technique). Just plainly telling a straightforward story.

The characters were supposed to be like ordinary people, ordinary couples, I suppose? But were they really? They were the elite in their respective field, handpicked by WY. Shouldn’t they have been a bit more eccentric?

The mini-films were much better than the feature film. In “The Last Supper” they bond and drink to their “covenant” (their pact, their alliance of together founding a new colony far away from their fatherland). And of course “The Crossing” which was beautifully made . . .

Shame, cgi was piss poor in that movie. 

Big Dave:

That sounds kind of boring but it could be saved by giving David limited screen time and have human characters that we can relate to. Right now I am sort of tired of the AI thing so if they don't change that in some way that brings more focus on the humans then I think that it will be boring. One way that they can do this is to write some parts that do not involve David so they can dedicate that to other things, that would be something new as far as the prequels are concerned.

What if the humans fight the aliens and then David is like the last boss in a computer game that they got to beat last? Maybe this is a dumb idea but it is something that occurred to me. I mean this loosely by the way. By doing this they could focus more on the humans and less on David even though he is important, this could be what you wrote about the AI pulling the strings so to speak. Let him be around a lot in the movie but don't have him a lot on the screen (keep him in the shadows or how ever to put it), I would be OK with that.

Hopefully they are smart enough to understand that not everyone is interested in the AI part. Do you think that the can reduce it in the next movie as opposed to their initial plans?

I hope that David will face a gruesome death as quick as possible if that is the case so they can focus on the monsters and the humans. Maybe the humans do to David what Oram should have done? The colony that you talk about makes me think of Hadley's Hope in Aliens.

Having the Engineers mad at David could be interesting. Maybe they will try to kill him? That would be interesting. Just imagine what kind of weapons that they might have.

“Que some inside conspiracy at the company that revolves around AI being the ones Pulling the Strings.. “

I hope not, the AI has had too much importance in the alien prequels this far already.

Wow that's crazy about the rights. Giger is the Alien series to me and without those aesthetics I have little interest in the future of the series. 

I am totally into the idea of our creation the android being part of the xeno make-up. It would add to why Ash was so fascinated with the xeno's makeup. It's just incredible what a confused mess Ridley has made of this series. 

I think its a case of Damage Control now...

There have been to many cooks in the kitchen... 

And that has led to a different number of likes and dislikes regarding aspects of the Franchise, the Concern is with each movie, the dislikes seem to be pilling up than the likes.    Having chosen the U-Turn path to actually link the events of Prometheus sequels towards Alien, they cant just abandon that ship now....

Yes there are interesting other themes to explore and expand upon, but these could and should have been done when trying to go the alternative path to a Prometheus Sequel, rather than having to Shoe-horn a Plot that Literally now links to Alien.

I will add, that it appears FOX/RS do keep a check on responses to the Franchise from time and time to sites like this and AVPGalaxy and certain Youtube Channels.

But again if any Poll was taken, its not a clear cut answer of what to do next.

As a lot of fans still want to see more about the Xenomorphs, and those answers leading to the Derelict.   I think a few things that stick out from Fan Reactions.

*Changes to Xenomorph Lore (Gestation/Growth)

*New Chest Buster.

*David being the Creator (thus no Ancient Mystery)

*Movie being more about Davids Story.

Indeed its been a case of constantly changing the Plot and ideas over and over and over.

HR Giger had some great ideas, Sadly he is no longer here to brainstorm for them, also rumors are that FOX was unable to make a deal with the HR Giger Estate as far as Bio-Mechanical Giger Aesthetic, but i cant see that being a reason why the Xenomorph looked a bit different, because if it was down to IMAGE Rights then the Eggs, Face Hugger and Xenomorph in AC are so close to those in Alien that this should not be any problem... however the apparent Problem with the Giger Estate is around other designs that are influenced by his Aesthetic in that Dane Hallet had wanted to work on some very HR Giger Atheistic to some designs but was told he could not.. by FOX for some reason.

They could have considered consulting Dan O'Bannon too but he also Sadly Passed away, and so i think all we are left with now is where Ridley Scott, and  maybe David Giler and Walter Hill would want to take this as far as ideas.. But Ultimately i think its FOX Executives who cast the Final Yes/No to ideas.

Giler and Hill's input with Alien was mainly regarding the introduction of AI, and Ridley Scott is more a Fan of Space 2001 and also Blade Runner type Themes.

The only kind of Saving Grace for some fans would be if the Engineers or their Creators, discover Davids Creations and make a Deal with David... 

Then Ultimately they Sacrifice David (likely in a Walter Body) to Evolve Davids Creations on LV-223 or attempt to take them to LV-223

@Critters5

This is the Problem they now FACE.... the aim of these Prequels is now to eventually lead us to find out HOW the Eggs end up on a Engineer Ship on LV-426 which is a long way from where David is heading.

The amount of things that have to happen to get to that Point, require more than one movie, the Problem is if they dont cover how the Eggs get on the Derelict and dont show much if nothing about the Xenomorph and the Movie Bombs bigger than Alien Covenant...

It leaves FOX Dead in the Water, with a unfinished Prequel where they have to invest in a 3rd part to Tie in to Alien, but then have to ask would Financially they risk it?

FOX are in the Market to Make money, and not answer those Questions in Alien if its going to not make $$$$ 

The same thing goes for Blade Runner 2049 i have yet to see it, but i have heard its actually a good movie, that sadly has not made a lot of cash, simply because only the Blade Runner Fanbase has really gone to see it.

so if the Next Alien movie is not about the Xeno, and does not really get us closer to Alien, and will be about AI and maybe Engineers, this could mean only Prometheus Fans may go and see it, some Alien Franchise fans will but some Fans may steer away...  which means the movie could struggle to make cash back... even if the Story is very Good.... if its not a very much ALIEN movie then Alien fans may not go, and those who do watch it may complain...

Which leaves FOX in a conundrum regarding the 3rd movie, which could mean a Spoon Fed Xeno Flick, but then they would ponder will this make a big Profit?

Sadly i feel the next ALIEN Movie will be Sink/Swim for the Franchise Future.

I agree with the running time needed, there is no way we will see him setup a colony and experiments. We will see the final result just in time for the 4 parties to arrive.  

I can understand Thoughts_Dreams and i feel many feel the same..

Sadly i do think we are going to be thrown into a World, where David has lied to the Colonist, where he has allowed them to set up a Colony (despite him saying he cant allow Mankind to start again) i think we will then see David try and announce himself as King, and Subjugate the Colonist, where he may have the Xenomorph as a Punishment.   I have a funny feeling we will see David set up and lead a New Human Civilization that while it has Technology would be made to pretty much become a Culture like many Ancient ones, where David would be setting up some kind of worship to himself and maybe his Creation.

I think we will see some Colonist Rebel, and Question why they should serve David after all he is a Creation of Mankind, and then they find out what David really had been up to in Alien Covenant.... Que David unleashing his Xenomorphs on them...  Que a Company Military Ship arrive.

Que some inside conspiracy at the company that revolves around AI being the ones Pulling the Strings..

Que the Engineers to arrive, and join the other 3 Factions at play on Origae-6 and then Que, finding out what David has done, and attempting to do with the Colonist, Pronounce himself to be Worshiped by the Humans yet David is actually a Creation of Mankind...  as Actually the Same thing the LV-223 Engineers had also done Thousands of Years ago... thus making David and the LV-223 Engineers similar.

I can as of now pretty much see this has being very very similar to the Plot we shall be shown.

So it sounds like the Engineer story is a jumbled mess. 

Ridley Scott is only as good as the Script he is given to work with, a lot of people had been looking forwards to Logans work as they rate him as a writer and were revealed they never followed a Micheal Green Draft..  It appears some themes from Greens P2 made it into Blade Runner 2049

So the Prometheus Sequel had gone through a long development, having 4 writers brought in over a period of nearly 2 years until we ended up with a Script that RS and FOX felt was RIGHT...

A thing to remember is a lot of stuff can get changed and cut from a Draft to a Actual Shooting Script and what we get in the Movie and even then a lot can get cut in the Editing Process... AC has flaws, but the Novel seems to better explain some flaws...  The same is with Prometheus a number of fans blasted Lindeloff for the mess that this was, as far as some of the movie...  However if they read Lindeloffs Drafts they are actually more Tidy and Explain things better and are not as Silly.

Sadly a Draft has to be cut down to translate to a certain running time on the Screen, and it appears both AC and Prometheus suffered from a few things being cut that left some scenes in the movies appearing as very Dumb and Stupid.

I think they need to get a Draft for the Next movie thats much improved and has better use of Characters, but looking at the Set-up the movie has backed itself into a limited corner...  the only way out is if most of the Movie is done as a Actual Aftermath event like AC was.

We arrived in AC with the Covenant intercepting a Signal of Human Origin, the Covenant Crew arrive almost 10 years after what David had done to the Engineers and Proceeded to do to them and Dr Shaw in the following years.... its only a bit of Narrative from David and Flash Back that we get to see some remnants of what happened.

I have a feeling the next movie would be similar, we wont really see the events of from after David walks down the corridor listening to Wagner, to when we arrive seeing no doubt a Origae-6 Human Colony up and Running.  Much like we did not see any events from when Dr Shaw and David discovered a Engineer ship apart from the scene of a Engineer Ship leaving LV-223, right until when the Covenant Arrived.. we did not see what transpired in those 10 years really.

The Crossing Prologue did cover some part of this...

I feel this could be the way that Alien Awakening or what ever it would be called, could be handled.

“Where does the mechanical aspect of the xenomorph come from?”

They made an interesting design when it came to the Xeno but I am not sure if they really thought about that when they did the movie. I doubt that it will ever be answered but it would suck if it was because of something that David did.

Bigdave, the starbeast plot is so much more interesting :*(

That is an interesting topic, thanks for posting this. I am interested to see what people think of the Alien prequels even though I don't agree with everyone and everything that they say.

Hopefully it won't be a prequel to AC that covers what David and Shaw did. I don't care for Shaw since I don't like her character. I have written before why I don't like Shaw so I won't repeat that here.

The Deacon was just a part of the series so I don't think that it makes sense to go back and see what happened to it. Some people might be interested in that part of the story but I would rather see it move forward.

It seems that RS says a lot of things about it but I think that he should direct it but he should not write the story. A Scott story would probably give us a new boring AI/David movie.

Yes I would rather see a story about the Engineers and their connection to the Xeno. I am not interested in another movie about David because AC was too much about David and that was boring.

Unfortunately both Prometheus and AC have been underwhelming and I am worried that the next one will be crap if they focus too much on David and less on the human characters.

Give us some human characters that we can connect with that are not just two-sided or else it will be a crappy movie.

Giger did a great job with that. There are so many interesting details in it about the ship, the SJ, the busted jockey and so on.

Big Dave mentioned something about sacrifice, I wonder if that was where they got their idea of the sacrificial Engineer from? I mean at the beginning of Prometheus where he sacrificed himself to create life. Replace the egg with the goo and you sort of get the idea of what I mean. Until now I have understood that picture to be that the Engineers made the Xenos and sacrificed themselves to it but maybe that was where they got the idea of the sacrificial Engineer from?

The legs or what ever to call them remind me of the Derelict and Juggernaught. Eventually these could be connected in some way because they look sort of similar in how they are shaped.

When you look at the SJ in Alien and the picture there you can see that the SJ and the pilots here are sort of connected. To me the Giger painting shows us the process of how the SJ got facehugged and eventually that they had people in their society that maybe sacrificed themselves to the Xenos.

Hopefully they can take some inspiration from this mural and use them in the next Alien movie. I bet that it would have been better than what they have given us this far at least when it comes to that (the origin of the Xeno). No android needed. :D

"Answering these in context to ALIEN and then trying to tie this with what Prometheus and Alien Covenant laid out, is what i feel FOX/RS should now be doing."

Yes it would be a lot better than both Prometheus and Alien Covenant combined if done right, I bet that. With what has been made for us this far (Prometheus and AC) I guess that we will have better fan theories than the actual movie itself, it wouldn't surprise me at least.

I would prefer if they would keep the origin of the goo a secret.

Ingeniero: Thanks for posting that picture. I never understood where they got that idea from. Giger's painting (I think that is what it is) helps me to get some kind of idea about where they got the eye-work thing from. Unfortunately it could have been handled a lot better (the Holloway worm) but at least I think that I see the connection. My guess is that they never thought about how the clues should be tied together to not make it confusing.

Sure, otherwise I wouldn't be around here.