New Replies (Page 534)
Great analysis and sources :D
Scott had already stated David was the progenitor of the Xenomorph and the Foster Novel, while quite insightful and a great read, isn't canon as he uses early scripts and adds things he felt was necessary as proven by his previous novelizations and interviews. The proof that David has been using Engineers for his experiments are in his notes, he's used various specimens for his work such as infants and the like but that could all just be in his mind too. To think he destroyed every denizen on Planet 4 with the ampule drop is unlikely as some could've barricaded themselves in the Hall of Heads or their respective homes.
Just got the Weyland-Yutani Report and it's definitely worth it :D It explains so much.
Excellent point pakistan. The history of the mutagen most definitely makes a great story of AI.
If RS is going to just replace the Alien movies with a retread of blade runner only in space ill be glad to jump ship here. so Alien is now even further from alien, first they turned alien into space Frankenstein and now its terminator in space. why not just make a different franchise instead of tacking Alien on to this now AI movie and deluding the alien films and franchise further. its quite sad to see RS cannibalizing the Alien franchise...
i was hoping RS learned from his last 2 movies "Prometheus And AC" but i guess not hes just going to get worse.. i think ill stick to comics and fan work as thats where the real talent is when telling a good alien story.
RS seems to have become lazy and lost his ability to form a story that holds any continuity.
If this is the case ill be glad to jump ship here. so Alien is now even further from alien, first they turned alien into space Frankenstein and now its terminator in space. why not just make a different franchise instead of tacking Alien on to his AI movie and deluding the alien films. its quite sad to see RS cannibalizing the Alien franchise...
i was hoping RS learned from his last 2 movies "Prometheus And AC" but i guess not hes just going to get worse.. i think ill stick to comics and fan work as thats where the real talent is.
RS seems to have become lazy and lost his ability to form a story that holds any continuity.
This is great stuff, Ive featured this topic for you.
Yes chli. Do not discount Ridley Scott in pulling together a masterpiece with Prometheus and Alien: Covenant laying the groundwork in concepts.
Each scene seems to have a deeper meaning displayed and the scene example in the opening is one of the best in Prometheus (see below).
Dr. Shaw later squanders her favor on LV-223 by giving into the needs (loneliness) of the flesh and decides to trust David 8 to her peril. Looking back, Dr. Shaw may have run with open arms toward the Deacon alien instead of leaving with David 8 to later be butchered.
Thank you Ati.
So, it is safe to assume that David 8 can get an alien spore into your system with a panoply of transmission options? These notes are so great.
I can't wait to see who the Engineers answer to Cerulean Blue.
Ridley Scott has confirmed that the Engineers are not who Dr. Shaw thought they were (creators) and that there is another "player" who has yet to be shown.
"2) The Derelict was a different model that had loaded some Cargo from LV-223 a few hundred years after the Outbreak, but the Derelict did not get far before the Pilot was Infected and Crash Landed on LV-426"
I do believe that we will get details in the next film on number 2 above BigDave. And finally have a little more on the system where LV-426 is apart of.
Michelle, I am 40+. I agree with you wholeheartedly... the narrative potential of 'Prometheus' was eviscerated to make it more "palatable" to the general movie-going public. Don't get me wrong, I love movies where I shut down my brain and thinking and just enjoy it, but that was not what intrigued me about 'Prometheus', the Engineers and the potential in moving that narrative forward, and not what I had hoped for in 'A:C'.
As for 'BR2049', I will be seeing that with my other friends who are my age, and older, this Friday. We all thoroughly enjoyed the original and are looking forward to the sequel!
Alien Paradise, should still be a Film, dealing with what happened on The Planet and Shaw and the Xeno Types created. No offense, but I wanted everyone on the COVENANT dead... it's to the point I'm rooting for the Xenomorphs unless Shaw or Ripley shows up...sorry
But they have dealt with Deacons, who are larger and more ferocious than Xenomorphs, how exactly are they going to tear thru radiation suits,.and no offense but an Engineer is still taller and larger than a Xenomorph, and has green blood and black goo, they may neutralize the acid, looked forbid a facehugger impregnated a female Engineer, David would have no way of controlling that Queen
Saturnyne I think the mural idea is good. It would be a great irony if the xenomorphs are actually based on a species that supersedes the Engineers; so the rulers of the Engineers, as you put it, look identical to the xenomorphs. Perhaps that could be a third act twist of the film, where David's xenomorphs interact with the xenomorph beings that are the top of the hierarchy
And who said those were the only humans to reach that planet, the ship. David knew they were coming, how??? They were not, and who laid the eggs???
Not all the Engineers, gathered, some where in different spots, all over the city. Remember, they stopped the ships from leaving, if they were engineers and not a sacred race, a chosen race. I don't think they were engineers but actual a chosen race, hidden away. They produced white Xeno, like the menorah and not the Black as prophesied, like human produced Xenomorph or deacon, via human rna. Shaw had millions of sperm inside of her, who knows if she was still infected, or not. Also her corpse was well preserved and untouched. It also still grew post mortem, she was still growing after death. How do we know she is not regenerating, and David was still harvesting organs... he did state it had regenerative properties...
I'm wondering if Shaw, in her state wont be the Space Jockey???
We still don't know who the Master of the Engineers is and what their creation to the Black Goo or it's origin is or why the Engineers mutate, nor how many planets they have seeded over the million years, or how many species they have created. It could be thousands. For all we know, the mural in Prometheus in the ceiling, depicted their ruler.... David is not after the underlings but their creator.
I'd even suggest that David becomes the Space Jockey, but it's a staged reality; it's possible that the Space Jockey was never a sincere accident, as is implied, but was a ritual performed by David as a way to coax the Engineer race into helping the Xenomorph race.
Is it possible, that the Space Jockey is David, and David became the Space Jockey deliberately as part of a deal with the Engineers to help the xenomorphs?
(Apologies for poor participation,but for some reason the pdf isn't compatible with my device (yes i operate from my phone)so more often than not i'm lost.I recognize the events happening but the dialogue is where i get lost as their is quite a bit in the script not on film.Once again sorry for my poor participation but i try)
He didn't bring the dead back to life, I hope? I don't think the next movie will turn into a zombie movie . . .
The Engineer in Prometheus didn't seem to react well when David spoke to him, so I hope the Engineers in the next film are like that. They'll probably even be a little angrier after they see what David has done and I think they'd find it particularly insulting that a being/thing like David utilized some of their technology and attempted to create/manipulate life and now thinks of himself as a god. At least that's how I hope it'll turn out. Who knows how Ridley has thought of this and how he intends to tie all this together.
chli if we believe David's notes, he reanimated at some point one engineer.
Yes, in Foster's novelization, David said he didn't create the egg and the facehugger in the lab. He tries to re-create them (using small animals and Shaw).
The chestburster that Oram gives birth to isn't like Kain's. It's more developed from the beginning and grow's faster. David must, therefore, have created something new (with no connection to the eggs on LV-426).
I also wonder how we can "know" that David experimented on engineers, BigDave?
Ati I think they are messing with our minds.
I just got used to the idea that David created the xenomorph. I don't like it but Ridley Scott said it is so and looks like most of A:C concept art was dedicated to this enterprise.
I know the novelization stated otherwise but that aspect was not included in the movie. David did not tell Oram he found the egg displayed in the lab. He missed the only opportunity and if he goes back to make amends to that story it would be cheap. Unless we get a film about the David - Shaw relationship, in between Prometheus and Covenant and learn something about the engineers' ways. I believe most of us want to see that film.
David is the new Ripley. Unfortunately he is fighting on the alien side and took most of the cake from the xenomorph. He cooked the beast for good.
How will he use the two facehugger embryos? I'm so curious about it.
He can try, it would be fun.
Good analysis, BigDave!
I wonder if David will set up his world on Origae-6? We will see him as a gardener of Eden, eventually being overthrown himself by his own creation?
The face looks like a female, but there is an equal chance as we cannot see the full figure. Even, the head is covered by a cap.
Rhys
That looks like Big Bird. I thought one of the others you chose was a Space Invader but you could be right.
As much as I like David and the AI angle, I think he should either die or fade to the background and let the Engineer storyline become front and center. However, I would like to see the AI bit in there since it has been present in all films.
Yes, well I think he ruined it somewhat when he turned the fossilised space jockey into being a space suit. And now, David is the creator of the xenomorph . . . (In Foster's novelization, David was merely a re-creator, or "developer", of what the engineers had created long ago)
I don’t think that AC was too bad though. Focusing on David was a good move. AI is interesting (and Fassbender is great). To me, the film lacked in suspense in the third act. There should have been less action and more of dark, creepy corridors on The Covenant.
Anyway, Alien: Awakening will probably be interesting to see, engineers returning etc?
I thought that David would be the one to convince the Engineers that the xenomorph race deserves to kill humans, for humans are inferior in his eyes. He might even have the xenos wipe out the Engineers as well since they created the inferior species.
I was watched this trailer out of curiosity and got the sense from it you thought that maybe someone else is better suited to playing Wolverine than Hugh Jackman Write My Essays.
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I'm fine with the focus on the AI. Androids have been a major plot point since the first movie.
Distephano- (to Wren) Sir, we have to go.
(To Elgyn) Let him go. No quarrel.
Hillard cries out to her friend, her only friend, "Betty's all the way across the ship! Who knows what's in between?" Hillard is in complete fear of the experiments on the ship that Call told the crew about. The main reason being that she heard, everyone heard, the screams echoing into the mess hall from who knows where. Still, she reminds herself that regardless of what it is, she's more than capable of handling some fear. If she couldn't, she wouldn't be where she is today. That's guaranteed. The problem is... what is there to fear?
Michelle Johnston Honestly, you are totally right. I am starting to think that we should sign a petition addressed to Michael Fassbender, so he declines participating in the next Alien movie. It's just all these AI nonsense is causing irreparable damage to the franchise. I am all for deep thinking and branching out, but narrowing the scope of a franchise about Aliens into a conspiratorial AI story is shortsighted, boring and ultimately suicidal.
David is hostile because he isn't human, which makes the logic of the question. David was made in man's image, therefore it's the human image that David connects to empathy.
For this reason, it makes sense for David to think of the issue in human terms; of course, it doesn't have to be that way, and David could reach out to the Engineers without using the concept of humanity, but just the concept of sentience and self-awareness
To rephrase the question: should David try to get the Engineers to help xenomorphs become more self-aware?
