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The first poster is my favorite, it seems like something really bad is about to happen to the individual. Just seeing it makes me go "eeww!!" which is an important part of the franchise, that feeling of disgust, dread, and similar things.
Thanks for the comment Michelle J.
Speaking of colonists there were some in Aliens but then there were also more focus on the humans compared to Alien Covenant and thus I probably prefer Aliens over AC any day although Aliens feel too 80's for me.
Yes we need some people that we can care for and that's early in the movie to keep the movie away from the AI-centricity in AC (which sort of is what made it worse than it could have been). Covenant was alright until it became the David show and then it went downhill. Fassbender did alright but it was too much AI and too little about the humans so I don't really blame Fassbender but rather the direction of the movie.
"We do not need, get to know the crew /messages/discovery we need someone in it from five minutes and then tell the story."
I think that we need at least three or four characters to care for that are humans, not AI or what ever. They also need to establish those characters kind of fast and they need to be well-written. Alien Covenant confirmed to me that having just three characters that are alright (to me these three were Oram since he was sort of well written compared to many other in that movie, David, and Walter) is not enough. Only one human character that they got alright, it is a shame. It is not that Daniels and Tennessee sucked but we didn't get to know that much about them. This is how I see it, but it is up to you if you agree or disagree. We must be given better human characters in the next movie or else they:
1. Either haven't listened or
2. They are playing some sort of sick joke on us
The two prequels that we have gotten this far are not very good as far as human characters are concerned I feel that they owe us some good characters in the next movie to sort of make up for Prometheus and AC. I am totally serious about this but I also feel that I need to have some constructive criticism about the movies and not just shout and point my middle finger because that would be sort of childish but yes they have done a lot of failures in these prequels mainly.
1. Somehow they got the idea that David could have been the originator of the original Xeno (an idea that I despise)
2. They have ignored the human part of it by having in general failed with the human characters even though they were not as annoying in AC compared to Prometheus but then it became the David show, which sucks.
My complaint could easily be summed up as this: either focus on well-made human characters or I am out of here and let the ship sink so to speak.
If it will focus on David then I will maybe see it once in the movie theaters but I bet that it will suck so I am prepared for the worst.
"If Ridley focuses his next movie on the above, trust me, I am sitting it out until it hits cable."
I am considering that.
It was too much focus on artificial intelligence, it would have been better if the time dedicated to AI and humans had been more even. They needed more interesting human characters and more time spent on humans. Unfortunately the focus was wrong in AC.
Elgyn - Alright. We make for the Betty.
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Upworth and Ricks are the symbolic reason why David is hostile to humanity; in the literal story, David isn't connected to Upworth and Ricks, but the metaphor of his behaviour is that Upworth and Ricks aren't recognised as evolution by the Covenant crew, and thus the Covenant crew gets destroyed
"The link between David and Upworth and Ricks is a mindfuck of astronomic proportions."
I am trying to see this link you are talking about... For me this couple is as important as Vickers was in Prometheus, good looking but not important to the story. David did not care about any humans, not even Daniels who most probably will "accidentally" die in the cryosleep.
The release of AC and BR bring into focus a really interesting question. How do you take a story with a minor cult beginning Alien and Bladerunner one of which becomes a franchise the other a much beloved late entry "work of genius" and then dress them as tent pole movies which appeal to a larger audience and one that is rather different than 1979 1982 (given the alien franchise is burdened with aliens needs).
Incidentally if I give the impression that everyone over 60 is bright sophisticated in need of something really demanding whereas the millennials do not have an attention span beyond a gnat then thats an over simplification. People have always been across the spectrum.
The Question, which several here are coming round to is, can David hold the series together and back us in (probably left in the chair) and the beast is merely texture like A 3.
The answer is what more can he tell us about himself.
Pinocchio/Apartheid-response to and attitude to mankind/A child like attitude to sexual rejection (of any kind).
What those questions demonstrate to me is so little was achieved in Covenant that we are a ahead of the narrative. We were not quite sure in Prometheus what next now its obvious. Ok so intellectually we get the joining of the dots but what about mediation and being on a side caring about the outcome. I care about the outcome I want him blown to bits within five minutes and then we can get on with something interesting like all the questions raised by Prometheus.
Cautionary Tales of A I Part 1 Part II Part III is a little limiting to say the least.
Yes, that is only 10 mil more than Covenant with a wider release. Don't want it to fail but we must keep in mind that this movie was at least 150 mil and to achieve the 2.5 the production cost in incomes it must make at least 375 mil. There is a very, very long walk to there.
Lawrence of Arabia - '...so we've been going through Terminator in space without (some) even realizing it.'
Great point! :)
A good piece of news about Blade Runner 2049:
'Internationally, Blade Runner 2049 met overseas expectations, debuting with an estimated $50.2 million from 63 markets, 61% of its international footprint, capturing the #1 spot in 45 of those markets. The film's opening in the UK led the way with an estimated $8 million, on par with Interstellar and ~15% ahead of Mad Max: Fury Road. In Australia the film brought in an estimated $3.6 million, topping both Interstellar (9%) and Gravity (28%) and in Russia it finished with an estimated $4.9 million, on par with Mad Max: Fury Road. Additional openings include France ($3.6M), Germany ($3.3M), Spain ($2.6M), Italy ($2.5M), Brazil ($1.8M) and Mexico ($1.6M).
Blade Runner 2049 will open in South Korea next week followed by an October 27 opening in Japan and a November 10 opening in China.'
Lawrence of Arabia - 'Love the Humans-Stink Team'
:D - Bad boys are usually much more interesting. :)
Since it is an AI thread, I'd like to share a good piece of news here:
Internationally, Blade Runner 2049 met overseas expectations, debuting with an estimated $50.2 million from 63 markets, 61% of its international footprint, capturing the #1 spot in 45 of those markets. The film's opening in the UK led the way with an estimated $8 million, on par with Interstellar and ~15% ahead of Mad Max: Fury Road. In Australia the film brought in an estimated $3.6 million, topping both Interstellar (9%) and Gravity (28%) and in Russia it finished with an estimated $4.9 million, on par with Mad Max: Fury Road. Additional openings include France ($3.6M), Germany ($3.3M), Spain ($2.6M), Italy ($2.5M), Brazil ($1.8M) and Mexico ($1.6M).
Blade Runner 2049 will open in South Korea next week followed by an October 27 opening in Japan and a November 10 opening in China.
Love the Humans-Stink Team lol
A great moment from Alien Covenant is Oram's death, as it shows the xenomorph accepting David without apparent cause. The fact that David is a robot would explain, but the idea that the explanation is a pseudo-state seems to be the actual truth.
The xenomorph is falsely connected to truth; could Awakening play on this idea? The truth isn't life, but life isn't false.
The truth is the non-living which needs to be separated from life. Perhaps the xenomorph race is the key to this mystery. The mystery is the state of extracting non-life from life without betraying the meaning of life. Movement would separate non-life, but movement is meant to be life, therefore betrayal.
It feels logical to discern that the next movie will be about the logical means of separating life from movement, so that movement can be free of collision
In this case Peter Weyland played God and created David. David played God and in turn created the Xenomorph, so there is a very unnatural loop going on highlighting humanities folly.. and its a great story.
What would make a truly exciting story for Awakening would be for David to allow the establishment of the colony on Origae-6, and then introduce the Xenomorph into the ecosystem. Then sit back and watch Natural Selection play out. Prove which species is the better adapted and better suited to survive in a hostile environment.
One thing that needs to be answered is how the Facehugger selects it prey. Is it designed specifically to target humans, or does it have some method of selecting appropriate species to steal their successful traits.
Does it ignore less dominant or abundant species? Does it choose only Apex predators? etc
Ati Thank you. The link between David and Upworth and Ricks is a mindfuck of astronomic proportions
Yes, I know. I wanted to hide a quantum of hope in that question.
We'd like to see a very good movie, beyond doubt, that will need time...
Your opinion is shared by me. :)
I like the one with the corridor very much.
trokanmariel - Your comment is remarkable.
'I hope that it's not a quote fitting to Ridley Scott himself?'
No, it isn't. But you are trying to suggest that with the ambiguous combination of this sentence and the topic title.
'Show us what you've really got up your sleeve in the final movie connecting into Alien!'
We don't know how many movies there will be between Covenant and Alien.
Perhaps the playing God aspect is the motivator of evolution, as in evolution literally needs a life force to adopt a God-like perspective
trokanmariel it would be a much more intriguing story than a mad android playing god yes.
You could show just how successful and formable the xenomorph is as a survivor and a perfect organism.
In terms of the Xenomorph (and Neomorph?), they cheat by taking phenotypes from a host species, instead of relying on the slow numbers-game that may take many generations to produce a suitable adapted individuals.
Do you think Awakening should be about the origin of evolution?
All movements in life are the result of evolution channelled through natural selection.
Individuals with the most favourable traits that suit their environmental conditions survive and pass on their "best-fit" phenotypes.
I know Wikipedia is a bad source but Im at work and don't have access to better source material atm.
But this is a good example of how Natural Selection works in nature and facilitates phenotypic change. You have to remember that change is a numbers game, constantly shifting. The more individuals that survive their environment to reproduce the more the traits that helped them survive will become 'the norm' in later generations
I'll agree that Alien Covenant has great themes, but disagree that it had poor details; compared to all the other Alien films, and Blade Runner, Alien Covenant is a tour de force of entertainment and soul. All the characters tell a story, and every scene is a metaphor. The 1979 film is a shallow experience in comparison, and so is the right-wing propaganda piece Aliens
Thank you Chris for highlighting the Alien fanfic community :-)
One of our own Blackwinter-witch has just published her own full-length Alien fanfic novel. Alien: Manticore
Linked here:
Good. This is what Prometheus was, a marriage between Blade Runner and Alien, Covenant continued this and set-up Covenant 2. You can only have the monster chasing humans down dark corridors be the premise so many times without shaking it up. The AI, believe it or not, has had a substantial role in the mythos of the Alien saga, so instead of it being the sub-plot this go-around is logical and welcome. David is the "Ripley" of these prequels and he created the Xenomorph, it only makes sense to continue down this path. The Alien is a biomechanoid creature, implying it's an AI as well, so we've been going through Terminator in space without (some) even realizing it.
These are all AMAZING!
@Joylitt and Chris made great comments about BR 2049 potentially flopping and to me; and it is a better movie that AC. If Ridley focuses his next movie on the above, trust me, I am sitting it out until it hits cable.
AI / androids are horrific! I'd much rather be killed outright by a xeno/space monster than suffer years/decades of torture by an AI(I suppose AI could keep you alive for thousands of years. A guinea pig for whatever....Might seek out your whole family so they can watch).
Westworld creep'd me out as a kid. Space monsters I can understand. AI not so much.
So say we all, chli. ;)
Chamber of intensive therapy.
Well. I think that Ridley Scott was right about one thing: the goose is cooked (he cooked it).
If RS wants to philosophies about AI in the Alien universe for me it's perfectly fine, but why them muddy the water with Xenomorphs origins or other CGI monsters? Why sell toys? Why make trilogies? Why not hire writers to do profound and nuanced stuff? I've said already I like Alien but not such the Xenomorph, so why not explore the reaction of the AI reaction to the vastness and emptiness of space? What would be his reaction as a being for pure logic to the discovery of unfathomable lovecraftian horror in space?
Why Pinocchio again, why slaves' revolt again?
As for me, my favorite AI/ robo related movie (as in story) is still the second Ghost in the Shell (Innocence) anime, which is made almost knowingly that would flop but the director's love was more important than that.
No, I think it’s over. How could they come up with the idea that the space jockey wasn’t fossilised but a space suit? How could they come up with the idea that David created the eggs and not the engineers (a long time ago)?
They must have tried hard (or looked too deeply into the whisky bottle) to come up with this . . .
Ridley Scott thought that he could come up with something interesting, but forgot that there are fans loving the original Alien.
red0guy@gmail.com I don't think so. But one thing is for sure: androids with philosophical preoccupations are for a niche audience. But at least it will be a smaller, happier audience. As a proof of this, "Blade Runner: 2049" is already ranked #52 in the imdb top 250 with a 8.7 rating (compare to Covenant's 6.5). Try to transfer the same themes into a franchise like "Alien" and you get a pissed off audience.
But that is highly likely. The finally predictable irony that the Xeno will over-trow it's god is fair obvious right now.
