Comments (Page 753)

What merchandise is currently available other than the novel and couple of making of art/photo books (all of which I have)?  Are there any officially licensed shirts, etc?

Thanks guys. However i won't be sharing any short chapters or parts of the story as i would like to keep it under radar for now. I will be posting more info about the characters soon. 

Hey look what we get in Australia...... come on! we're not that slow

Advertised as "Alien Covenant Prequel" like its something new.  

Yeah we probably have. We all spent months/years drooling over every tiny morsel of info we could for AC. Our speculations and theories became collectively so advanced, far-reaching and fantastical the movie could never meet the expectations.  

But I think Instant media has a lot more to blame. Before people even have a chance to watch a new release these days they are bombarded with reviews, opinions, youtube commentary, spoilers, unnecessary viral advertising, false/misleading advertising (COLONIAL MARINES im talking about you) etc.  

Unless you live under a rock, or get to the world premiere, you will inevitably walk into that cinema with preconceived biased expectations these days. Whereas a decade ago you might watch a film, then stew on it for a few days before deciding how YOU felt about it.

That being said, communities like this are brilliant for fans wanting to know more.

Personally I didn't much go on Prometheus when it first came out, i thought it was kind of shallow and indecisive on what it was trying to present itself as.

But after exploring it deeper and coming to understand it more through all the various threads we have discussed on here I MUCH more appreciate that film now. I re-watched it the other week and was literally in awe of everything in the film.

So this form of instant media has IMPROVED my perception of some of the films. Likewise it is great to know how other people's views and theories align with your own. or dont, giving you a new perspective, enriching your ALIEN experience.   

@Big Dave 

Just to finish the statue in Rio is a welcoming redemptive pose with christ's face looking out and welcoming offering redemption. The crucifio images have that all important down cast "lost" pose where the face drops into the shoulders"  which is reflected in the sacrificial Deacon pose with its beautiful head stooped and in full view.

Right thats it I really must exercise more self discipline, though I congratulate you for going over and over the same ground with others.      

I saw Aliens first on VHS. It didn't scare me but I really liked it! It was a great mix of sci fi, action and horror for me.

I hated Prometheus but still bought the bluray praying for the extended scenes to save a little bit of the mess. This time, I pass. Covenant was far too dumb to be saved by anything and there's no way I give any more money for this joke. If I could go back in time to prevent me to buy my ticket in the movie theater, I would! To me theses movies will never be a part of the Alien mythology... I have too much on my plate trying to forget them. F*ck off Ridley, f*ck off Fox. I juste hate you both.

@Nathan Adler

Your passionate questioning reminds me of ALL of the questions that have been speculated on since 2012. The tragedy of Covenant, and its dealt with politely by Damon in a recent interview , is based on his conversations with Ridley as to where they would go after Prometheus in Covenant they have not reached the "place of answers".

Can you imagine my frustration when I sat through a routine Alien movie which wasted 2/3 rds of the movie reintroducing a step on from the Deacon and in the other 1/3rd we received unsatisfactory answers to the David/Shaw story line. 

Prometheus's failings are quite simple :-

1) They did not make the link between the Engineers and mankind clear enough. Evidence that mankind had been taken to LV223 and experimented on would have made the Charlie/Shaw discoveries whilst David pursues Weylands Agenda more terrifying and invested the wake up with even more terror. 

2) The precise relationship between the catalyser and the Alien pathogen would have made clear something discussed between Pietro and Ridley LV 223 represented the fallen angels of Paradise Lost. 

If together with a much more taught Fifield arc (Oubliette/hugged/creature in the tunnel that we glimpse before being destroyed by security) which ramps up the terror for the Engineer awakening.  

If those matters had been handled correctly Prom would have been bullet proof as a creation myth movie and Prom 2 would have been able to bat A 5 off and move forward to the really fertile ground of David/Elizabeth and the Engineers mythos.  

Somehow I want to delete all my memories of ALIEN and experience the Space Jockey scene like first time again.  : (

cuponator3000 I did a short test video in wmv, bought a basic mp4 converter online, sent to Facehuggers! and it worked fine. It is not HD but I think the point will get across. I don't think we have to worry too much about the specs you ask about. After all, we shoot for the best but it is also a start point for this forum as far as I can see.

OH HELL NO!  

The Alien franchise is going down the tubes!  It's turning into rote moviemaking where the writers just phone it in.  My suggestion is to be daring like David Lynch, get weird and creepy and stay with Giger sensibility in aesthetics and culture.  This will never happen.  So sad.  It's just typical Hollywood drivel.  I'm nauseous just thinking about what's to come.  Utter crap.  Sadly, voices like mine won't be heard.

@BigDave: If we interpret LV-223 as Leviticus, then this suggests the 'gazpacho' in the ampule room, etc. was a gift given to the Engineers.  The gifts given to God in this chapter were brought to him by the Israelites.  So was this suggesting a tribe of had brought God the black goo? In addition, it further advises that the 'priests' must show respect for these 'gifts' and if they don't, they are showing that they don't respect God's name; and that whoever makes physical contact with the 'gifts' will not only become 'unclean' but be separated/ cut off from God.  So does this finally resolve that LV-223 was originally a sacred place where the 'gift' of the black goo was brought to be revered, and the Engineers were 'priests' who disrespected it and were deemed 'unclean' and therefore 'cut off' from God?  And so they set about attempting to destroy God's other creations?  So were the cave paintings not invitations to us but records/ warnings from 'unfallen' Engineers warning us of the fate of the 'elegant, dark angels' for tampering with the black goo 'gift' and where not to go?  Was it actually a xenomorphed organism that killed the Engineers in the recording on LV-223, or was it discovered by their brethren who were those depicted in the Starmaps on Earth that had been tampering with the 'gift' to wipe out creation and they were subsequently punished for this iniquity?

Or were we the ones who 'gifted' the black goo to God, then at some point sought physical contact with it and were subsequently deemed as 'unclean' and deserving of being separated/ wiped out?  Dr. Shaw's notes of the pictograph from Val Camonica in Italy from the early Bronze Age, approximately 3,000 B.C. showed that humans there had seen a Space Jockey's seated not only in the cockpit, but initiating the navigation hologram for launch off.  So might this suggest they had previously taken a group of humans to LV-223 at some point and this is how those who drew the pictograph knew what the interior of a Juggernaut looked like?  Had they chosen an elect group of humans in 3,000 B.C. to LV-223, and we had stolen some goo from the temple/ ampule room (ala stealing the forbidden fruit)?

--"How can a robot have any sexuality? It is not biological what so ever."--

I thought this was obvious. That is the entire point, heck the point the core of sci fi in general. Showing what isn't as what could be. Do you watch action movies and say "How can they kill so many people and not get shot. It's physically impossible." or "That sports team can't win they are the underdogs." 

Better yet why draw the line at something so specific on a fictional robot in the first place? Shouldn't you be saying "There can't be robots at all." 

That is the entire point, pushing the boundaries of what is possible. 

Ohhhh woah, BigDave's use of the word, "Espionage," makes me think that there is a teny tiny chance that the prequel novel that Alan Dean Foster is writing may touch on this issue. I am grasping at straws here, th emost obvious issue here being: How would someone on Earth be able to do something like this, not knowing David is out there... STILL there will probably be some very interesting connections to the story/ending of Alien: Covenant (I mean, of COURSE there will be connections, but I think we are in for some surprises. 

Yes, remember the Xeno's in the cell. They killed the weakest of their own to melt a hole in the metal floor and escape.

There was also the xeno that spat acid at Christie climbing the ladder too

Actually Alien 3 is interesting. From memory there is no evidence to suggest the runner definitely acid for blood?? The juvenile possibly spat something like acid at Murphy causing him to fall into the fan too... 

I actually remember watching AC at cinema's after seeing some of the reviews and thinking I don't get the hate, this has a nice climatic build-up... this film is great.....ohh, wait there it is. Wtf just happened.

Have you ever seen the film The Colony? Another film that got ripped a new one. Nice tense atmospheric build-up, great cast, interesting premise. Then just over an hour into it, it was like the Producers walked on set and said "Righto you've got to 15 minutes to wrap it up". So they chucked in a sudden cannibal/zombie battle. End.

Michelle: “All’s well, that ends well”, not just when it comes to movies and prequels :) I actually liked the story in AC very much, particularly the relationship between Shaw and David (which is developed beautifully in “The Crossing”). The AI-problem (can synthetics feel - love for example?). David and Walter discuss this in the movie where Walter says that he saved Daniels not because of love but because of duty, which he is programmed for. David says he loves Shaw (but tortures and murders her . . .). In Foster’s novel, this is developed more and Walter is beginning to think that he actually loves Daniels (where he watches her sleep).

I have no problem with David becoming the villain and tampering with biology. It would be sad though if the ancientness of the derelict would be thrown out the window. There are still ways of saving this, although I suppose I could live with it. David, as a synthetic, sitting in the pilot chair of the derelict with a chestburster hole would perhaps be too much, though.

Thoughts_Dreams: Do read the novel. As always, a novel has the opportunity to delve into things more deeply.

BigDave

I will also assume some scenes will have extended versions, like the Weyland and David Scene i am willing to bet there was a longer version.

Is it just me or does that scene get more screen time than the entire rushed Protomorph sequence on the Covenant...

It's a great scene don't get me wrong, but it kind of highlights what went wrong with AC's pacing. They had these nice drawn-out dramatic and intense scenes like that.... then a tacked on xeno battle at the end. Bam! Ending.

Sort of like Riddlers saying "There's your damn Aliens!"

Nice is that the log line in your signature?

Ugh no more Newborns and to hell with A:R! I say set it after Alien 3 and involve a massive conspiracy similar to the one Gavin proposed with the Patna=Sulaco. Have it where the theatrical version of Alien 3 was based on the disjointed and unhinged recounting of the incident by a deranged Morse and how nobody really knows what happened on Fury save his strange tale of a 'Beast' and lone survivor Ellen Ripley (who died). Amanda Ripley could play a role and be involved (unintentionally) in the cover-up.

VivisectedEngineer I'm about to drop a new one very shortly :-) one that I've been working for a while, but making sure im 100% happy with the premise first.

 I'm excited to share!

The space jockey was and still is the best imagination in film. Everything else that was E.T. in previous movies were always humanoid looking or just plain weird.

Lawrence of Arabia I thought it was rather naive and pathetic for such an abominable creature. At least he understood the queen was from another movie. One thing I liked in that movie, when the aliens decided to sacrifice one of them to escape from the cage. That was team work lol.

I think AR could be kept as Canon... just mean how do they tackle other Alien Movies set after this Movie, or any between it and Alien 3.

They could find other means to the Xenomorph but it would have to lead to them losing it and leaving by the time line of Alien Resurrection as the Ripley DNA as the only source.

I never liked Alien R, only just as a bit of Popcorn Flick.. i was not a fan of the whole DNA route, not how it came off... i.e a Ripley who is Pregnant with a Xeno Queen.

I would rather had seen them use the DNA and obtain a Hybrid and then Re-Engineer this DNA over and over until they ended up with One Organism that was 100% or near enough Xenomorph and another Clone that was near enough 100% Ripley so say 90-95% Mark on both....   And not a Clone that was carrying a Chest Buster... it was stupid.

Also the New-Born looked a bit stupid, and acted a bit stupid, for me the whole Ripley/New Born Interaction was really silly, i would have preferred more Sexual Innuendos between David and Walter than just Blow it and Finger it ones... 

Some of the New Born Concepts were Pretty Good however.

I had began work a few years ago on a Parallel Alien movie to Alien Resurrection where they sent the Failed Ripley 7 Chest Buster to another Facility and some of Ripley 8's DNA where another company began experiments...

Resulting in a new kind of Xenomorph that was a Hybrid and i visualized something like the Alternative New Born Concepts for how these Xenomorphs would look, and also introduced a different Procreation Method that was not to far off the Neomorph.

Well they would capture a Host and do similar to the AVP Pred-Alien only the effects are not as fast, i was pondering how they would infect a Female so her Eggs would Produce a Hybrid that would Belly-Burst and look like the Baby-head unused Prometheus designs

But the Speed of Infection was not as fast as the Pred-Alien or Neomorphs.   I pondered even having the Hybrid also infected Males to become Hybrids in a different way by injecting some Virus via its Tail that turned them into more Alternative CGI Fifields.

But i never got to Finish it.

The xenomorph had acid blood in Alien Resurrection?

@daliens

I thought it was kinda cute lol I also wanted to see more of the ramifications of this abomination of human and Xeno. What it's life cycle is like, if it gets stronger, does it have command over the common Xeno. It could think and it had curiosity so I can imagine how smart it could become.

The Battery Acid Theory is a interesting one..

Because then we could maybe see that the Xenomorphs Acid performs the same task the the Androids White Milk Fluid does.

This could help to bridge the Bio-Mechanical Gap if a Android is used in this Process down the road... But i think its no Coincidence the Hammerpedes had Acid Blood.

A Lot of people did not get Prometheus, yet the clues was plain to see, if they had the Alternative Fifields  such as one of these and showed Acid Blood, i am sure the Connection would be easier.  But Alas it never had Eggs and Xenomorphs which displeased a number of people.

I saw alien when i was 14 when it came to cinemas in 1979, i read the ADF novel before i saw the movie using my active imagination and was blown away when i saw the space jockey as the novelisation does not mention it, only the device putting out the distress signal.

The suspense leading up to dispatching of crew members made me jump in my chair and left me scared to turn off the light for a while when i went to bed lol, i became a fan. 

Lawrence of Arabia what did you like about the Newborn? I did like only one thing, he eliminated the queen from the franchise. 

@Nathan Adler

Thats a good Question, we was intended to be Wiped out, but then the Outbreak prevented this... so we have to wonder why latter visitations had came along after 2000 years ago.

Was there a Faction who Sabotaged the Intended Mission to Destroy us?  But then why did they leave us similar Star Maps, was it a Warning... were beings who visited us trying to Warn us as far back as 35'000 years ago?  But then we have to then ask so was LV-223 Producing those Bio-Weapons for over 35'000 years?

Its very open to debate... it could be more likely the Engineers saying this is where YOU came from, without ever being a invitation... after we upset the Engineers and proved to be a Failed Experiment/Creation they then intended to Destroy us.

So then a Faction who did not agree with this, then made similar Maps as a Warning? But then where did they go?

My Personal Favorite Theory is the Space Jesus one... YES.. but not in Literal Sense... but how RS had said the Engineers sent down a Emissary to try and put us on the right track but we Killed him.

Now what if there were Many Such Emissaries on Earth, Once we had started to Kill them, the Engineers Abandoned us and then went onto to create the Bio-Weapons... but some Emisaries had remained in other Cultures that had not contact with other Continents.  For Example Hawaii and Mayan Ones.

These Cultures were maybe keeping more in tone to what the Engineers had intended for us as far as how we behave, and Worship the Gods, and Sacrifice to them etc.  So i will assume that Emissaries on those continents had educated those civilizations after the other Engineers had abandoned Earth.

Thats about best Logical Way i can explain it, other than that it could just be how by Word of Mouth these Maps get passed on over and over through culture and culture, just like in the Theory that all Religions and Mythos of Gods all came from a Actual Event/Gods and they are just told in slightly different ways through Civilization to Civilization.

Which Basically is what Prometheus was trying to show us.

I will add the Alien Creature Remains Theory is also something to consider... i thought Holloway was referring to whats behind the Mural as another Tomb.  As it surely looked like a Door that could lead somewhere..  My Prometheus Re-write i actually took a look behind this and it had a Room with Sacrificial Murals and was more like the Star Beast Mural Room..... but also had Sacrificial Pods around where Sacrifices could be Held.

I interpret the object the Green Crystal is on as a Altar and i thought as the Engineers Culture revolved around Sacrifice, that it was maybe some kind of Sacrificial Altar?

The alternative one with the Cup/Bowl is clearer to see that it is positioned centrally and under it there was Canals running off it, groves in the Altar.  You could almost imagine if a Sacrificial Host is positioned inside this Altar and the Sacrificial Goo poured down and leaks into the Groves/Canals and then inside the Altar and onto what ever is inside.

I think its interesting to read all the theories and there is NO Single One that can be taken as 100% because RS/Lindeloff have never 100% confirmed in detail what this Mural and Altar and Crystal Purpose is... they left it open for interpretation.  I personal still lead towards what i came to, mainly because also Spaights Draft seems to give clues to this, especially the way the Scarabs work and the Sacrificial Cruciform Pose the Engineer had taken during his Sacrifice.

@BigDave

I know I'm of the unpopular opinion but I hope they keep Alien:R in canon. I thought it was a decent film and I liked the Newborn and the fact Ripley was cloned. I also found it humorous that Wal-Mart bought out Weyland-Yutani (they can do something about this though lol). With Ripley 8, they can say because as the result of her cloning that she ages faster. Be it cuz clones have short life spans or because her genetics were mixed with Xeno (Xenos have short life spans). I don't know, I'm just not a fan of retcons, especially of established films/arcs. I guess that is a bit hypocritical since I am a fan of Prometheus and Covenant and they retconned the Space Jockey into an Engineer but that's different, we didn't know anything about the SJ.

colonialsoldier you may be right, sometimes we forget to enjoy a show because we can't figure out who created the xenos and what is the origin of the pathogen. However, some great minds are working on the issue and as soon as everything is clear the Batman vs. Superman story will be dealt with. Many tried to get away from this fan site but as it happened to you and me, they returned looking for the news. We are hooked, man. Not a map, an invitation.

" I have studied many artefacts, artistry of Judo/ Christian/ Hindu and even Moslem tradition and the idea a spreadeagled creature is embracing rather than crucificalo is outside of my experience."

I think its a interesting point and also the Christ Statue in Brazil and so indeed we cant rule out the Sacrificial Pose as being something else... Thus the only other reasons are this Creation had offered the Engineers something that was important,  maybe its a way they could Create Life by giving Birth and thus incubating Life within them... if this was something they had lost or was never able to do (Procreate by Giving Birth) Then the Mural would indeed be valued by them... i think this is what the Mural stands for.. but they Sacrificed this Creation because it was Perfect in their eyes and so to use its DNA to use to pass on to all Life they would now create.

Another option is if this Mural Deacon offered the Engineers some kind of Freedom?  The Christ Cruciform pose not only was about his Sacrifice, but its to inform us that through Christ Mankind can be Saved... his very being allowed for Redemption and Savior, and thus without his Birth Mankind would have none.

So the Deacon in some way could also be some kind of Savior of the Engineers, or those on LV-223.   Maybe it provided them a Freedom from Bondage?

"I don't think Ridley mis-spoke at all. When he said "this thing designed to make human beings", the "thing" he was referring to was the creation goop we see in Prometheus prologue. He was just saying if you think the Engineers made that stuff, you are wrong. That's what I heard, anyway."

I dont think there is enough evidence to suggest any theory is wrong, i may be wrong or i may be close, only RS and Lindeloff should know what the deal was and those who worked close to them... but even so we dont know how much things get Evolved as they go along, i would almost Guarantee after they started to Shoot Prometheus that doing a Sequel where David is revealed as the Xenomorph Creator, and a movie that skips Shaw completely... is NOT the Intention back then... so things can progress and change.

I think my theory is accurate but its not set as FACT, its just a conclusion i made, i feel at the Time it was fitting, but as things Evolve this theory can seem less and less likely.

I will say that "the "thing" he was referring to was the creation goop we see in Prometheus prologue"

Is a interesting take on what RS had said, i would be pretty open to considering this kind of theory also, we really do-not know how far or deep RS is going with the Origins of Life in General. And so for sure it could be the Goo is they KEY to All Life, maybe the Engineers were created from it, and they had then used the Tool of their creation to create Mankind.

The Beauty of the Plot in Prometheus is it leaves it open as far as who created MANKIND it could have been explored in a number of ways, just as how it could fit with so many Ancient Cultures and Religions...  The Sacrificial Scene showed a Engineer who looked very related to the LV-223 Engineers, it showed the Elders who look related too (but this was removed) So there are connections... 

The Sacrificial Scene could just have been how those beings on Paradise came to be,  in which case early Mankind could have been a Failed Experiment, where our Ancestors were kicked out of Paradise or Deemed to be Destroyed/Re-booted but somehow a few of us were taken away to Earth maybe by a Rogue Faction of Engineers who then had tried to subjugate us, maybe these Engineers even created us via Sacrificing one of those Humanoids, in a attempt to subjugate their own followers and thus play GOD.

Its so open.... the only way i can say the Engineers did not create us, is by looking at the Sacrificial Scene and then if they answer who is the Race who had Roped in that Sacrificial Engineer to do what he did.   The Engineer thus may not have created us, just that his DNA was used to lead to us.  Thus its in a way who ever created the Sacrificial Goo who truly created us, as this TOOL is what was needed, the Engineer merely the Genetic Genepool from which is required to create us.

If this Engineer acted in accordance with the Elders and the Elders are the same Race then in a way the Engineers still created Mankind, because those Ordering the Sacrifices are Genetically Related.  

Another aspect is the Sacrificial Scene again was not on Earth or how mankind was created, but it must mean that Mankind was created or Originated from the beings who were created via that Sacrificial Scene.

RS had said that the Sacrificial Scene was how these beings Seed Worlds and Create Life, not just on Earth.. that Scene could have been anywhere... but he did Ultimately say the Engineers had been back over thousands and thousands of years to Re-Engineer us over and over to thus Evolve us Genetically and Technologically.

The Ultimate Creator (Origin of Man) thus can be attributed to the Source of the Sacrificial Goo, we dont know how far or deep they will delve into this Substance, what its True Purpose is and how it was obtained... it could at the very least had been STOLEN/MISS-USED by the Engineers and not something they had ever created.

I could mention some of the stuff the Source said about P2 as this seems to offer a lot of clues. But again i cant even say if there is a single element of truth in it... unless Paglen/Green Draft comes to light

I saw Alien in 1979 when I was 16. Freaked me out..Theater was full and we had to sit 3 rows(or closer?!)from the screen. My sister watched it opening night and thought it was something we'd like so.... she dragged my brother(15 years old) and myself........And that's when I realized how awful Star Wars was! :-p

If acid blood is an energy source then the facehuggers are biomechanical? This does not necessarily make the xenos biomechanical but the eggs can be engineered by someone. This would also exclude the ant queen concept, wouldn't it? 

I first Watched ALIEN well caught bits of it (70%) in 1985 (on TV), then saw the whole movie again in 1986 (Home Video) and then Aliens when it came to Home Video i think in 1987?

Was a interesting Movie, i do remember when i was younger that i preferred Aliens at the time but as i entered my 20's i learned to enjoy Alien more, and then in 30's as time goes on, Aliens just seemed to become more a Popcorn Flick.

I remember the movie just being Great (Alien) i was not freaked out or scared i just thought it was COOL.... then as a kid no Horror movie scared me at all.

Only ONE Movie made me feel uneasy and that was John Carpenters The THING and only One Scene... which is Dog Town... which still makes me feel uneasy to this day.

It seems odd to have just ONE such Person in that Rock-Face, its a case of does this show case the Engineer/Elder Race in General?  or its it attributed to ONE Specific being of great Importance?

some Shots it looks like MIKE TYSON to me lol David better not want to meet this person, not if he wants his Ears intact.

Aliens has to be knocked out of the franchise canon. I don't know why anyone who saw it recently would want to keep it canon. It is as bad as A-R. We can start a topic on how bad it is.

Indeed its a tricky one... 

The Code had to unlock some specific Order/Protocols and Programing,  can we assume David had uploaded at a earlier point a new set of Programs and Protocols and gave them that Special Code?

As indeed there would be a Time-Gap between when Daniels, Tennessee, Lope and David arrived on the Covenant, until the point when the Unidentified Life Form Warning was issued.

This would be the most Logically explanation, that David Hacked the System, uploaded a New Protocol/Program and gave it that Security Code.

The only other Logical reason would be the Ship already had a Program/Protocol which required this CODE.. this would have to imply some kind of Rogue AI Agenda, that goes further back and Deeper than the Prometheus mission.

That would not doubt mean some under-cover espionage secret Agenda is going on behind the Scenes, and maybe even instigated by AI going rogue.... So David Hijacking the Systems prior to Prometheus knowing the chances are Weyland may not make it and so to have some Plan in Store that allows David and AI to run things behind the scenes, while all along proving the Company is just a Pawn in Davids Game.