Alien Movie Universe

Space Jockeys & Derelicts

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Gavin

MemberTrilobite01/20/2012
In the course of the past week or so I have opened 2 threads, which have been met by many with some controversy. So I have started this thread in the Community Discussions section to set the record straight. In the first thread [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/1105]FOUND HERE[/url] I stated that the Space Jockey found in Alien was not a long dead, fossilized alien pilot, but a briefly dead alien pilot in a suit. Illustrating my point with images. Of course this means that our collective belief that we held for the past 33 years was wrong, and as such many refuse to accept the truths of the thread. Now when I say truths, instead of findings or theory people believe me to be arrogant. But the FACTS in this thread are facts. Why, because the interview in [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/1094]THIS THREAD[/url], started by craigamore, which includes the following quote from Ridley Scott himself: "[i]Therefore, who is that, inside that suit? That wasn’t a skeleton, that was a suit.[/i]" In my thread I was accused of being wrong. How can I be wrong when all I have done is repeat what Ridley has said above, with pictures to illustrate and support the fact. Surely if I am wrong then Ridley is wrong. In my second thread [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/1170]FOUND HERE[/url] I stated that the Derelict in Prometheus is the same one as in Alien & Aliens, again illustrating my point with images. Immediately I was accused of being wrong despite the logic of what I had written being sound. The two main arguments put against me were: 1. [i]The design of the Derelict in Prometheus differs both internally and externally to that seen in Alien and Aliens. Thus by this logic these people claim there is more than one Derelict.[/i] Answer - Ridley has clearly decided to change what we thought we knew, thus is it really beyond the realm of possibility that Ridley would make other changes. Also Ridley clearly states in the documentaries on the second disc from the Alien: Directors Cut DVD that he never liked the way the Derelict looked on film, stating that it looked like a model not a spaceship. 2. [i]According to a fans website chronicling the production of Alien and that films Novelization the Derelict had been there for at least 1 million years for the pilot to be fossilized.[/i] Answer - This is simply answered by answer for the first thread of mine I refer to. The fans website and the novelization of Alien are now void because Ridley has changed it to suit Prometheus. 3. [i]Possibly preemptive here. Some may say that the planet in Prometheus looks completely different to LV-426 as seen in Alien and Aliens.[/i] Answer - One of the many themes proposed to be in Prometheus, amongst others, is terraforming (see forum member Spartacus). If we look at the planet shown in Prometheus it looks dead and barren, kind of like Mars, whereas LV-426 looked primordial, prehistoric, kind of like Venus. If the Space Jockeys do have the power to terraform an entire planet I imagine we are talking of something similar to the genesis project seen in Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan. Thus something similar could be released at any point during Prometheus and would explain the difference in landscape. Also on another note I find it hard to believe that Ridley would want to portray the Space Jockeys as dumb and stupid by having them crash two almost identical ships in two films.

63 Replies

CBT1979

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
I agree to most of ur statements but am cautious about the planets condition. because strangely the planet in prometheus seem.to be much brighter, having Day and night possibly. But lv 426 Looks always dark and extremely rocky Despite the terraforming by weyland-yutani.

Gavin

MemberTrilobite01/20/2012
Well it was said in Alien that LV-426 did receive sunlight: Ash - "Well MU-TH-UR say's the sun will be up in 20 minutes." And in Aliens they weren't terraforming, they were processing the atmosphere to make it breathable.

CBT1979

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
@snorkel Ok thank you. But im really wondering How all those strange rocky landscape comes from with 30 years.

Firetothegods

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
Ok, so what are your thoughts on where all the eggs come from? As I believe this is a bit different to your previous comments that the derelict was a separate issue. Used as a 'bomber' etc?

Jim Jimmer

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012

Jim Jimmer

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
Problem solved @snorkel, Ive attempted to remove my geeky post....

jujutsuka

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
@CBT, I'm wondering the same thing. If the planet we see in Prometheus is also LV-426, the topography looks suitable for life, meaning terraforming (of the land) is unnecessary. Just a shot in the dark, but given the speculation that SJs can create/modify entire planets, maybe the geography of LV-426 in Alien is the result of some sort of tectonic upheaval that happens during Prometheus and is caused by SJ technology. The process could be initiated by an SJ or, inadvertently, by a Prometheus crew member.
Fall down seven times, get up eight.

Gavin

MemberTrilobite01/20/2012
@ JJ - no worry's, regardless the point is LV-426 got sunlight (have edited my post tho lol)

danrald

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
Would Space Jockey's be dumb if a Space Jockey made another Space Jockey crash?

Galaxy Dave

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
Derelict ship in Alien is thousands, if not millions of years old and this is why: 1) Capt. Dallas wouldn't blurt an observation like that lightly re. fossilization. 2) The old boney texture of the derelict interiors is extreme, pronounced and "arthritic", opposed to the new pristine interiors of the ship in Prometheus. 3) "Bio-Mechanical"- Meaning to begin mechanical and grow or transform into something more biological that will decay (and possibly fossilize given the right conditions). 4) Any advanced civilzation that can terraform cannot "speed" the process of evolution. Influence yes, but not rush it. 5) LV-426 is the same planetoid in both films with different atmospheres. This could possibly mean millennia have passed from a terraforming project gone awry. The rock formations and dusty atmosphere in Alien is in complete contrast to that of the terrain in Prometheus. I am using logic and deduction. Any takers?

Gavin

MemberTrilobite01/20/2012
@ Galaxy Dave... It is looking like the Derelict ship in Alien has been there for 30-35 years 1. The Space Jockey was not a skeleton, therefore not a fossil, because it is a suit. Ridleys own words. Dallas was wrong - he saw a faded exo-skeletal suit and interpreted as a fossil. Please read Ridleys quote and the threads I linked to. 2. there are many theories regards this in many threads - the most prominent seems to be that the ship comes alive when the Jockey takes his seat. 3. I refer you to the answer for 2. BTW biomechanical can also mean the fusion between the biological and mechanical for beneficial gain. 4. Who said anything about speeding up the process, it all depends upon their technology, which could be highly advanced than ours. 5. i refer you to my answer for 4. in star Trek II the genesis project didn't take millenia to come into effect. @ firetothegods - how does this affect the eggs, the derelict was most likely a bomber used to deploy eggs. Ridley Scott has stated this idea many times before and since starting Prometheus and thus it is most likely in Prometheus.

Bazinga

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
Perhaps they were terraforming, the rubble in the original movie could just be the debris from the ship crashing. We never see beyond a scant few acres around the ship. If they were not that far along the process could have been reversed as it went unattended for a few decades.

20thcenturybuick

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
well the atmosphere changes in the time span between alien and aliens because weyland yutani decides to terraform the planet and in aliens there is rain and the air is breathable its more than a coincidence that weyland yutani decided that the one planet they want to terraform happened to be the one with the space jockey ship

Galaxy Dave

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
Hello Snorkelbottom. 1) Yes, it is a suit BUT, it's a biological one that grew into its form, and in turn can become fossilized. 2) Very interesting! Yes, I can see the ship coming alive. However, the boney walls do look ancient. 3) Regarding 4), there was reference to the Genesis project in Star Trek, which I thought made entertaining sci-fi, but the speed in which the planet comes alive was unbelievable, completely implausable and ludicrus. I can see a Genesis-like project existing, but not "Folgers Crystals Genesis" project. I realize it didn't take long for an atmosphere to form in Aliens, but there are just too many elements from what I've seen comparing Alien and Prometheus that wreaks ancient.

Gavin

MemberTrilobite01/20/2012
the suit cant be fossilized. fossilized, to become a fossil, to become a skeleton, look at ridleys words... the derelict and pilot from alien crash land in prometheus

Spartacus

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
snorky, have you read part 1 of my easter egg post?

Gavin

MemberTrilobite01/20/2012
yeah i ave sparky, u have a lot to find yet

Galaxy Dave

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
Hello Snorkelbottom, Fossils can include the bones of an organism. If the suit is organic, then it can potentially fossilize. Yes, the pilot and derelict from Alien crash in Prometheus. The question here is how much time has elapsed. My presumption from visual clues is millennia. This of course would have to include time travel in the plot.

Gavin

MemberTrilobite01/20/2012
30 - 35 years, the suit looks like a skeleton because it is exoskeletal, check the thread did, there are suits behing noomi that look like the one in the chair

Firetothegods

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
I suggested a while back that perhaps the urns were used for transporting face huggers as a mechanical urn could be more easily controlled than an organic egg, however something damages the urn, facehugger escapes impregnating the ships Jockey in the seat, the resulting chest burster was a queen and ended up laying all the eggs in the ship.. In the time lapse between Prometheus and Alien the queen crawls off to some shadowy part of the derelict and dies of either age or lack of food...just thinking that if something like this isn't the case....at the time of Prometheus there will be thousands of eggs already in the ship and if this is so surely David, Shaw etc would find them?!

Galaxy Dave

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
Yes, they are the SJ suits behind Noomi and look like the one in the chair, but these suits are biological and can have the potential to fossilize, like any other biological creature.

Gavin

MemberTrilobite01/20/2012
@ firetothegods - a queen did not lay the eggs, they were already there - blue lasermist

Spartacus

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
yes, I knew that I did, but I am loving reading it all through again properly !!! Some of your eggs if I missed them already are quite clever. All I really pointed out was stuff I "dig"! {'60's slang meaning "hip" or "cool"} LOL.

Gavin

MemberTrilobite01/20/2012
@ crazy dave, how can a skeletal suit become fossilized, a skeleton, it already is. there is no fossilization. ridley changed it when he revealed it was a suit, showed us the suit and showed us the derelict crashing

Biomechanic

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
Forgive me if a similar theory has been presented elsewhere but I think perhaps the derelict ship itself is grown in a test tube as is most of the equipment used on board. The life and death of the derelict: 1. The aliens design a ship by growing cells and manipulating DNA sequences. Maybe it starts off as a small egg and then is raised in a strange hatchery until it matures into a huge horseshoe shaped carcass of meat and bone's big enough for the creators to enter. 2. After maturation they add a more mechanical shell covering the inside and out to give it a more robust protection from adverse conditions . 3. This terrible bomber travels the stars while giving birth to it's own weapons cache of eggs until it crashes prematurely in it's mission. 4. The derelict dies and the mechanical parts start to fall off the decaying epidermal layer leaving the ship looking like a corpse of exposed tendons, ribs and mummified flesh. P.S The spacejockey suits would work the same way.

Firetothegods

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
Riiiight, so what happened to thing that burst out of the SJ's ribs? Think your assuming a bit too much with the constant 'theres a blue laser' over them thing.... If they were already there.. As I say sure the Prometheus crew would find them on the ship. Plus when Kane, Lambert and Dallas are round the Jockey doesn't kane say, take a look at this 'hole in floor' where he's lowered through 'looks melted' couldn't that be from whatever makes an appearance out of the SJ?

Spartacus

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
nicely done. I like it.

Gavin

MemberTrilobite01/20/2012
@ firetothegods - it'll be an alien but not a queen, that was camerons idea not ridleys

Firetothegods

MemberOvomorph01/20/2012
I've always been a chicken before the egg man myself... As Ripley said....each one of these things come from an egg right? So something's gotta be laying these eggs... Guess we'll see in June?!

Gavin

MemberTrilobite01/20/2012
hudson said that, not ripley ridley never intended the queen, he intended egg morphing, thus no queen in prometheus, which i already explained before

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