Forum Topic
MURPHY
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 2:49 PMHello,.
First post,. This movie release has really got me excited like it was the night before a holiday,. Its becoming a daily occurrance to check this web site just in case I miss something,.
So with this post I'd like to put across a few thoughts about the film,.
The similarities between the urns in the ampule room and the egg's in the derelict,. a question I have; why would an advanced engineering species use such a method of storage/transporation,. they would surely use a more substantial container,. so maybe the ship wasnt carrying a cargo of eggs,. the hole in the floor was made from the alien after exiting the piolts chest,. all unplanned big mistake,.
The interior of the Prometheus SJ ship and the derelict interior,. the interior architecture so to speak has similarities,. very industrialist,. mechanical,. yet the alien derelict has an organic/mechanical look,. and as we learn the alien has a certain taste in its habitat,. deciding to add its own touch to the surrounding environment,.
The alien life cycle,. once we find out that the alien was collecting people to morph into eggs,. it took that murderest side of its predator nature away,. it wasnt just having fun or lashing out,. this had a defining purpose,.
The urn's in the ampule room,. could it be a collection of human DNA,. they have mapped out all creations from the universe,. searching out new species to take back home,. (catch a butterfly) they like to experiment,. curiuosity,. knowledge,. new creations,. build,.
Could the alien have picked up some of these traits from the DNA of the SJ,. it has the desire to build and recreate,. collect,. gather species,. and the mixup between the two,. makes the alien use a more organic approach,. make an egg,. its deisre to change the environment could be that it needs certain criteria for successful production,. or it has that intelligence from the engineering sj's and its a natural thing to do,.
What lead me here was looking at the life cycle and life choices the alien makes,. firstly is why facehuggers.,? why not just hatch a little chestbuster.? why the need to implant into another species.,? why the extra event in its life,. maybe the eggs are not to ensure its start and continuance of its species like egg as we know it here on earth,. but to ensure the experiment continues,.
Hope some of this gets people thinking,. look forward to your thoughts,.
MURPHY
23 Replies
Spartacus
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 3:17 PMMurphy
Welcome, and...that was Heck of an opener.
Well Done !!!
[quote]The similarities between the urns in the ampule room and the egg's in the derelict,. a question I have; why would an advanced engineering species use such a method of storage/transporation,. they would surely use a more substantial container,. so maybe the ship wasnt carrying a cargo of eggs,.[/quote]
I will be very interested in the answers you get to this question, I have my own idea, but I am waiting till Monday to post it.
db
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 3:50 PMIMO no 2 xenos are alike, depending on who/what their corresponding face hugger was attached to. I'm not just talking different species, I'm talking no 2 "human-influenced" aliens are alike... Just like 2 dog aliens aren't.
Years ago I had an awesome dream that nearly gave me a heart attack before I woke up. I was trapped on a deserted island with my family (wife and 4 kids) as I watched a queen land in a pool of water under a waterfall. She had obviously tucked herself up into her frill for entry into earth's atmosphere (apparently) my mind was trying to justify it's existence.
Anyway the rest of the dream is me trying to keep all the different kinds of aliens made from the different animals on the island from killing us all. Luckily the biggest species was a cougar and unlike a "real" alien movie ( much to my joy) I get the whole family safe off the island on a raft, smiling and shooting a bird at the enraged queen we left behind on shore... Only to turn and realize both a sperm whale and giant squid alien are waiting for us beyond the breakers.
We were screwed and so was the earth.
My point?
IMO no 2 aliens are meant to be alike, that's why there is a face hugger stage.
MURPHY
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 4:01 PMNice1 Spartacus,.
Ps,.
If the company knew of the exsistence and exact nature of the alien,. whilst its re-route of the Nostromo,. would it not be best to collect the species but in this egg form,.? Or at least leave the planet with an impregnanted Kane,. unfortunate but useful;,. and one sample egg,. Ash could of insisted to remain on the planet,. study some more,. could off even got the whole crew impregnanted,. no unruley crew just 7 alien to usher home,.
Could this all be the doing of the android/replicant community,. This alien technology seems to successfully intergrate living organism with mechanical technolgies,. providing a life,. renewal,. birth,. This holds advancement of the android exsistance,. Ash's dance before taking his observation post during the initial search,. excited.? His complete admiration of the species when dicussing with Ripley,. adrimation/wonderment seems strange for an android,. "they" want it,. this is the technology that is sought,. and who is looking for it,,..
GreatBoosUp
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 4:12 PM@MURPHY: I think the ampule room is not part of the SJ's derelict ship at all. It's in a stone temple accessible via a long underground tunnel. Look around the site and you'll find leaked pics of the set construction and from earlier, leaked trailers. The derelict ship is exactly that and the SJ's cockpit in Alien is 'dead' and in Prometheus it's 'alive' so hence the different appearances.
I can't subscribe to anything past the original Alien since the original team didn't write or produce subsequent Alien sequels. Any canon will come from Prometheus. Aliens came close, but I thought the Alien Queen was cop out on Cameron's part.
MURPHY
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 4:56 PM@GreatBoosUp
The interiors of the Sj's derelict ship,. like you say different place to the ampule room,. suggests to me they belong to the same species,. they build a ship like they build a structure on a planet,. yet I see an alien influence on the derelict,. the rounded rib structure,. like its been built upon metal frames,. the same type of alien architecture found in the Nostromo where the alien was making the eggs,. what i'm looking at is the similarities shown between the urn's and the egg's,. one inert object to one organic,. quite alike yet could be developed by a different source,. hence the surroundings,. same environment yet visual changes in texture,. almost a mimic or recreation,.
Well I can say I enjoyed Aliens,. I was younger and it was an exciting film,. however the Queen alien gave the film its "blockbuster" end,. ie a "stars wars" ending opposed to "empire" the film gave away to much info on the alien species,. not just that a queen society is involved,. they communicate and take orders,. enjoyable film yet not much I will ever look to when thinking about Prometheus,.
@ db,.
Nice dreams,. but Why leave such a chance such as the type of host be selected,.? it does seem like the fachugger has no thought but hold on do its thing,. how do you see the differences in human+alien,.?
craigamore
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 5:49 PM"If the company knew of the exsistence and exact nature of the alien,. whilst its re-route of the Nostromo,. would it not be best to collect the species but in this egg form,.?"
@MURPHY......the company didn't know the exact nature of the alien....according to the novelization, the company's deep space probes picked up the signal and they were able to translate it much as Ripley strated doing with ECIU and they only knew it was a warning and that a lifeform was involved. The Nostromo was the next company vessel passing through that quadrant of space, that's why Ash was put in place five days before they left and why Special Order 937 only specifies "bring back lifeform".
GreatBoosUp
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 6:00 PM@craigamore: Thanks for the clarification regarding the company and the existence of a life-form. I didn't know that the warning signal from LV-426 included the fact that there was life-form involved.
craigamore
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 6:07 PMI didn't either.....just finished the novelization the other day and was very surprised to find that out.....I plan, sometime soon, to start a thread about that aspect of the novelization so we can bring the whole convoluted mess together.
F--- it - lets go for it!
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 6:33 PMthis thread got me thinking - surely the company did not know that there were in fact 2 different alien life forms.
the warning came from the sj presumably (and not the eggs), so i would think the company wanted the sj life form brought back, unless the nature of the warning was known.
what we do know is the xeno's prevailed - in spite of the warning.
from this are we to assume the sj's are protecting everyone?
craigamore
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 6:59 PM@F--- it - lets go for it!....but that doesn't make sense......first, the signal is alien in origin, therefore, you have one alien race there, obviously. Two, the warning is about some alien thing that ultimately killed the pilot and crew who set up the beacon or signal. Therefore, that implies a second separate race.
The logical chain of events would suggest that the race that set up the beacon, did not surivve and the only lifeform that could be brought back was the species that killed SpaceJockey crew......
The novelization of 'Alien' details this and the fact that Ripley could begin translation through ECIU suggests they knew enough to understand there were two races and the xeno was what they were interested in.
GreatBoosUp
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 7:14 PMWho wrote the novelization of "Alien" anyway? Was it one of the screenwriters or producers of the original movie? I'm not sure I want to give priority to the novelization over the actual film.
craigamore
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 7:53 PMIt a guy named Alan Dean Foster and he was working from an early version of the script.....but all accounts are that the company details I mentioned make total logical sense with the way the film plays out....I have to step away for a bit, but when I come back, I'll post the exerpts that detail this info.
F--- it - lets go for it!
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 8:30 PMthats my point, is it known that they translated the message and knew of the goings on within the derelict and were after the eggs.
or what we only see in the film, that there is a transmission of alien origin and partial decoding and the company want to bring back life form.
my next point is does the company not want any of the sj tech. or bio. riches at this point?
craigamore
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 8:51 PMLook at it this way...you translate as much of the message as you can and you gather that this hostile organism has killed off, or will, by the time you get there, the entire crew. It's probably the most easily removeable thing of value, as you have no idea what the nature of the vessel is and the hostile life form is the only verifiable information you can gather from the signal as it is the central reason for it being sent in the first place.....
"does the company not want any of the sj tech. or bio. riches at this point?"
You're sending in a commercial crew without telling them why they're actually there and you only have one man on the inside who, in all likelihood, isn't prepared to deal with what they find and will need the help of his shipmates to succeed in his secret mission and, of course, he can't tell them because none of them would go along with it, them being expendable by order. You're only concern and interest would be for what you know about, can order Ash to try and gather, beyond that, there's absolutely nothing you'd be able to manuever as you would have no frame of reference, thus, no reasonable, logical, explainable reason for making such requests.
F--- it - lets go for it!
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 11:46 PMthats a fair point, ash's instructions are simple.
im just trying to assertain any links with prometheus ie do weyland have prior knowlege, of events on lv426 and of the sj's/eggs.
i think from what youve said that they dont know what they're dealing with.
or rather the eggs are the object of desire, and not sj ship etc..
i appreciate your insights
craigamore
MemberOvomorphMar-02-2012 11:51 PMIt would have been way too long to post here and didn't necessarily adhere to the original thread so I started a new one with the excerpts I promised entitled [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/1766#18671]What the Company knew...as detailed in the novelization of 'Alien'[/url].....I get that you're trying to put the pieces together @F--- it - lets go for it!.......we ALL are....hope this helps....
CantSpaceJockTheRock
MemberOvomorphMar-03-2012 1:06 AM@Murphy could it be that there is a need for the facehugger to start the initial Alien lifecycle? The Alien was ment to be a weapon and the ship was a bomber so they would drop the egg on a desired planet. The facehugger either waits for something to break proximity or maybe it it would eventually seek out its host and attach itself thus breeding a chestburster which grows. Once an adult it begins to collect hosts to turn into eggs which would cut out the facehugger stage, correct? It would seem maybe it is just intended to get the cycle going where ever they turn these things loose.
MURPHY
MemberOvomorphMar-03-2012 3:27 PM'@joclthr
I rthink the facehuger is one methd of infection iinto a host,.the facehugger is a mean fo inected a host, be it a breathable gas or blood Dna alteration,. the alteration into a fachugger by unadvenaced yet not technical advance,. materials surrounding happened to be people amd a Sj specis, organic so organic eggs arer produced,
a precvpous point about varuios mhods of infectoins,. a fachugger design is litted unless the methid used by the encuonter wih kane wa a oneoff,. a limited devcct to hold on and implant an empreo,. what about month size./? more cappable animal lager mouth,. unless the facehugger hass mixed the the mouth openuingfasce with the other opening os aexual reproductive partl.??
jessapina
MemberOvomorphMar-03-2012 6:42 PMHi Guys
I feel if we want some answers we can use a little deductive reasoning. Firstly we need to make a few assumptions I'm afraid. The first assumption is that the planet that the movie takes place on is in face LV-426 (which is actually a moon of a much larger planet but whatever i'm being pedantic!). If so we can look to Alien for some of the basic plot devices. Alien left a few unanswered questions.
QUESTION ONE: Who left the distress beacon/warning active on the planet. The film is unclear but it's a beacon repeating at a set interval. Ripley has to run it through a translator but this could be a)because it is of alien origin or b) because the signals that the crew of the pometheus left as a warning have degraded over time.
QUESTION TWO: If the film is set on the same planet why do the company send a bunch of space truck drivers of the Nostromo to get a sample when they had already sent a very sophisticated mission ahead of them which had failed (assuming the end of the Prometheus movie is not a happy one!)
QUESTION THREE: The trailer seems to show the spacejockey head/helmet on a table in the lab being looked over by some scientist types. So are they more interested in the Space Jockey or the Alien? In a way Scott could get away from Alien by making the mission about the Jockeys and the alien would be incidental to the script giving us the prequel/not so prequel talk.
LAST ONE QUESTION FOUR: If we assume that the spaceship is the same one from Alien then what is the creature that came out of the jocket going to look like/how will it behave. The Alien tens to take on the physical characteristics of its hosts including some of its laten inteliigence. Assuming the space jackeys are the god who gave us fire (right? Prometheus punished by the gods for giving us fire and alluded to in the TED viral trailer) then could we be looking at some kind of smart alien?
Answers on the back of a postcard please.....
x
J
OrganicLife
MemberOvomorphMar-04-2012 1:30 PM[quote]It's not the same planet or the same ship.[/quote]
Most people, myself included, disagree. You can't just throw that out there like it's a solid fact, especially without anything to back it up. Because really, you think it's not the same planet or ship, but you don't know for sure, do you?
Guest
MemberOvomorphMar-04-2012 9:50 PM@ MURPHY: yes, it´s all conclusive theorems that comprise/fit into
a [hypothetical] larger framework of an uncanny space race.
But mind also H.R. Gigers original statements towards his Alien-
As you know, in one of his early interviews he stated that
face huggers' eggs were inspired by a 'jack in the box'-toy... in the
broader sense this means [to me] that he [in his special manner] was
construing such things extensively and by doing so he´d been contributing
some key-notes to the crop up of the original Alien.
In Prometheus he´s just in charge of some archs upfolds or passages and
this time, it comes in a obviously slightly different shape.
Good observation, anyway. Maybe your right, we´ll see.
Vanilla-Hollywood
MemberOvomorphMar-04-2012 9:58 PM@ MURPHY: Yes, it's all conclusive theorems which comprise/fit into
a [hypothetical] larger framework of an uncanny space race.
But, in this cntxt you should also mind H.R. Gigers statements towards the
original Alien-
as far as you maybe know, in one of his early interviews he stated that
face huggers' eggs were inspired by a 'jack in the box'-toy...
in a broader sense this means [to me] that he [in his special manner] was
construing those things (again, sextoys!!! ; )) extensively and by doing so
he´d been contributing some key-notes to the crop up of the original Alien.
In Prometheus he´s just in charge of some archs upfolds, passages or alien-
airlocks and this time, it obviously has a slightly different shape.
Good observation, anyway. Let´s see, maybe your right and Jockey's quarter-
deck was, in fact, leveled out..
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