Forum Topic
Late
MemberOvomorphMar-21-2012 9:46 PMWeyland-Yutani.
Giler-Hill.
Same sort of character arc, and maybe I just spent too much time watching the documentary features - especially "Alien 3" where William Gibson and Vincent Ward were thrown off due to whatever monetary constraints were in play - but I have to say this....
Ridley Scott is definitely putting a boot up the proverbial Hollywood *** of where the major motion picutre industry has been for quite awhile.
Don't get me wrong, love a solid popcorn flick like "AVP" - which I went into knowing it was going to be nothing more than a chance to see Lance Henriksen on the big screen after a "Millennium" bender, having caught the series after it was shelved.
I mention this only because I pretty much ripped through most of the behind the scenes on the box set today, and found Giler to pretty much be incredibly vindictive toward the franchise. I know dick-all about the mechanics of things in the entertainment industry: just want to crack a cold one and escape from time to time at the homestead or over at the local drink before taking in a movie, but that dude shut so many potentially great flicks down - no wonder Fincher doesn't want to even mention "Alien 3" on the resume.
So the correlation I am making here is that the same magnificient pursuit this fictional conglomerate strives for (a common theme in these flicks) is sort of the way these Kid Hollywood types roll. Obtain something at the cost of anything only to achieve success.
Is the Weyland-Yutani conquest as malevolent as these two producers? Nothing worse than financiers having creative inclinations. Pretty sure Rid put them in place, which is why we have an amazing movie. Check out Dave's take from "A3" to the last, and insight from dudes like Renny Harlin add to this.
On a lighter note, going back over the boards and enjoying everyone's input. Just thought, after spending a few hours watching the box (which, if you don't have, is worth the purchase if only for the "Making Of" features), some might like the connect the dots scenario.
....anything to save me from spoilers. Let's debate the merits of the franchise and rip me if I'm off base - congratulate me if I'm on point. You all rule.
11 Replies
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphMar-21-2012 9:54 PMI cannot stand the likes of Walter Hill, David Giler or Gordon Carroll. They are vampiric hacks that tried to steal the idea from Dan O'Bannon and Ron Shussett the whole way through the production of the original Alien. They didn't even want to give Dan O'Bannon writing credit. They are pathetic wastes of space. Oxygen thieves.
Gonna move this one to the Alien Discussions too ;-)
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"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
Late
MemberOvomorphMar-21-2012 10:05 PMAMEN BROTHER! - there is another brother/sister at the party!
I so appreciate this - not looking for validation, but as the commentary on these discs move on, I have decided that Giler puts the "D" in "D-Bag".
Seriously, Cypher - watch Dave chainsmoke and self-congratulate himself into oblivion for wrecking shop on some amazing gigs top shelf artists could have done on the set.
On the lighter side, how much ya wanna bet Rid put these chuckleheads in place? Think they are behind the PG-13 move? Just curious :)
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphMar-21-2012 10:26 PMI would hope Sir Ridley kept any and all of them as far away from this as possible. They are vacuum headed waers that, because they thought it was a great concept, decided that they should own it and everything associated with it, even though one of them (I think it was Giler...?) came into a meeting one day during pre-production and declared he hated science fiction!?, but tried to re-write the script O'Bannon had drafted..... Basically all he'd done was change the character's names......... And ALL the re-writes that Giler and Hill kept coming up with got progressively worse than the previous efforts. About 8 in total if I remember correctly? All because they thought they could do the same story but with better visual aspects, morons. And because they are too concrete brained to have an original idea between the 3 of them, they decided they should just steal Dan O'Bannon's whole idea. (On the Alien bonus disc you hear them pretty much admitting they tried to steal the whole concept, you can FEEL the contempt that they had for O'Bannon and Shussett oozing out of them) Gordon Carrol even told O'Bannon that he couldn't even see the dailies during filming of the original Alien, so Dan just went up to the projectionist's booth. Genius! :-P Thieving lying sleazy scumbags, the lot of them.
Jut to be clear, their heads are full of concrete and the vacuum surrounds their heads.
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"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
Late
MemberOvomorphMar-21-2012 10:32 PMAMAZING!
Thought I was the only one that got on board with that entire gig. Like I said, nothing worse than kids with cash having artistic inclinations...or hallucinations.
Man, feeling pretty psyched right now with this discussion!
I have to say, having Renny Harlin pull the "uh, we didn't agree" card on the "A3" card was the most amazing pivot to what could have been with the flicks.
I too, agree with "their heads are full of concrete and the vacuum surrounds their heads. "
In space, no one can hear you scream - right?
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphMar-21-2012 10:38 PMExactly Late. In space, no one can hear you scream..... In frustration as the producers try to fuck everything up because they think they have the right to.
Well said :-P
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"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
brego
MemberOvomorphMar-22-2012 8:18 PMWell said, All! I too felt sick watching those greedy old prics on various making of specials. They simply have no foresight and cannot understand how true Sci Fi forces the viewer/reader to use both brain and imagination. A'3 on the Wooden planetoid would have been one of the greatest Sci Fi films ever made (and made a shitload). I wanted to smash my TV when I saw the arseholes, looking back, discussing what could have been.... Producers should simply worry about the banks, not the artists.
brego
MemberOvomorphMar-22-2012 8:20 PMOh and thank God the morons gave in on "allowing" Gigers designs to be used in Alien.
Imagine if they hadnt given in to Ridley, we would not be on this site talking about it some 30plus years later.
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphMar-22-2012 9:03 PMGood point brego. It would be a whole different entity than what it ended up being!
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"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
dallas!dallas!
MemberOvomorphMar-23-2012 11:46 PMWalter Hill and David Giler may be pricks now, may have been for some time, but if you read the original Alien script and then read their re-write, and O'Bannon never argued that the rewrite is theirs, in fact he hated it (especially Ash), there is no way around admitting that they were more than just producers on Alien. I actually agree with O'Bannon that Ash actually make the story much weaker but most fanboys think the exact opposite. Can't have it both ways.
brego
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 3:40 PMTrue Dallas, however its their attitude and greed that sux. Also the way they all treated Giger was apalling. In this I include the guys from ADI, who seem to love Milking the artistry of HRG....
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