Does AVP count as accurate to Prometheus

No comment,....I remain neutral on the subject unless i find anything that relates that may support either case.

To be honest i don't care if it's canon or not it doesn't bother me but as films go i find avp entertaining enough to watch. The second i couldn't get through it, and predators, i found enjoyable to as sc fi entertainment goes. I was intrigued by what the other film makers, think about them and the writers, etc purely from a point of interest i guess.

and nice try Snorky but I saw the film Clint Eastwood Made "Gran Torino". I know all about the Hmong people whom I think you are using in an unfair way here to try to wiggle out out of my in escapable logic lmfao... The word actuall has no formal definition..."Mong" that is It is exceptable North American Slang and is derivitve of the word Hmong which were /are vietnemise people. The now world famous URBAN dictionary which usually categorizes such words that reside in LIMBO because they have never been officially defined lists the word as follows... MONG Adj. Lacking in physical and cerebal ability. General retardation. Generally: a total spastic. 1. (Mong)- Slang for spastic, but used against a person who says or does something completely idiotic by accident or without realisation. This makes every witness simultaneously raise their hands to their shoulders and shake 'em while sticking their tongue in their lower lip and making 'urrgh' noises. 2. (Monged)- A vegetive state of mind/being usually effective after consuming large quantities of alcohol, weed, lsd, ecstacy etc or combinations of. 1. Steve you mong, you've just poured the kettle onto ya cornflakes. 2. Steve's well monged after we spiked his drink with acid, muhahahaha. Mong is short for 'mongoloid', which was originally an anachronistic term for a Down's Syndrome sufferer. Derogatory verb commonly used to describe the state of one's lack of common sense. verb "to mong" to be in a deep state of relaxed wakefulness, often induced by the excessive use of alcohol or drugs. and obviously written by a women... Short for mongrel. A term usually used to describe someone who goes off with your ex boyfriend the minute you split up. At the same time she is also a 0 rating on the stunning scale and can often look like a ugly dog or horse. The mong also tends to buzz off presents you bought the ex, unknown to her. lmao !!!

Snork...."Mentioning CBW is not necessary, same as it is unnecessary for Prometheus to mention Ellen Jane Ripley." Mentioning a company's founder in a corpoarate timeline isn't necessary?...OK Not mentioning a lowly warrant officer on some random mining tug from among 837.53 million employees and on a timeline that is meant to end decades prior to when 'Alien' occurs?.....that does make total sense. "What was Special Order 937 in Alien?" Nothing more than a response to the translated signal they received, but that's a debate for another time. "What was the OWLF's mandate in Predator 2?" It doesn't matter as the Predator universe is not a part of the Alien universe and the point is mute. Oh Snork...and there's this, direct from the timeline: "October 11, 2012 - Weyland Corporation is recognized as a legal entity and corporation under United States law and receives their Certificate of Incorporation from the Companies House in the United Kingdom. Due to the combined value of Sir Peter Weyland’s various patents and patent-pendings, the company incorporates with a higher fair market valuation than any other company in history." Isn't that [b]8 YEARS AFTER AVP[/b] when Weyland Industries is supposed to be an established Multi Biliion dollar corporate entity? Wait..I think that totally invalidates AVP...does it?.....[b]I THINK IT DOES FOR CRYING OUT LOUD[/b].....

okay sparky try this one... Prillock

LMAO...now your just insulting me in Klingon or something...LMFAO hey man hope all goes well this morning and much Love I shout your way today, I'm having big fun.

Yeah....I'm with you there Spart....all in good fun Snork...

I have seen the word mentioned i some racing gamers forums as in..."im not some anti gamer [i][b]prillock[/b][/i] with too much time on my hands" LOL Snorky OMG !

@ Snorkelbottom - Do you mean pillock?

@ CAM... 1. CBW is the founder of Weyland Industries, PW is the founder of Weyland Corp. Two separate companies, thus there is no need to mention CBW on a Weyland Corp website. Furthermore, Weyland Industries was already in existence by 2004, your patent reference is in respect to Weyland Corp, a different company. 2. Special Order 937 - obtain alien specimen for study. OWLF mandate - obtain alien specimen for study. Same order. 3. CBW is in no way related to Weyland Corp, but what does it say on the site weylandindustries.com regards PW's parents...

No WDTFH I did mean Prillock, but sparky has yet to find the definition, in good fun of course.

I see. I havent been keeping up with this thread so I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I just seen the word "prillock" and assumed you misspelled pillock lol Ive never heard of "prillock" though...I'll have to google it.

Snorky... A word formed by merging the sounds and meanings of two different words, as chortle, from chuckle and snort. [b]I have to come to think you're a proper "Prillock" if you....[/b] Drive round with a dashboard crammed with cuddly creatures? Wear a disney top if you ate a grown-up? Have a wacky ringtone on your phone? Spiderpig anyone? Actually say the words "I'm crazy I am."? Think lol is actually punctuation? And don't even go there about typos at the top - I meant to type Prillock - it's a [u][i][b]portmanteau[/b][/i][/u], I'll have you know.

Really Snork...we're going to claim there are two different Weyland compaies existing coicindentally in the same universe, coicindentally inolving themselves with the same alien species? I think this is getting just a tad ridiculous.... "Prometheus" is invalidating AVP...end of story....

Damn you Sparky, Damn you lol

I dont get it, its all out of place. No one knows what the Alien is in Alien 1979, yet in AvP, a 21st Century girl joins forces with (yes..iknow..) a Predator and defeats the Aliens with a stupid amount of ease. Oh did she jut forget to say anything to anyone? And this measn that if the Preds are huntin Xenos in the 21st Century then in Prometheus they must already exsist. That is of course unles AvP really is just a bad idea / spin off that was ok for a "im bored" movie but in actual fact spits on 2 great monsters.

ok back to work Snorky, you have some questions form other valuable "mems" to answer now LMFAO...

@ CAM... It happens in real life, why not in fiction. Fathers company shrivels and dies, son's company becomes numero uno. BTW I am with Alteredstate on this one I do not care whether or not AVp is considered canon or not, but with so many quick to denounce the idea why not be on the side of the underdog. And all my arguments for them being canon are based on rigor, logic and narrative structure, not personal opinion. Check my posts on this I have never used "IMO" or personal opinions on this, but often those against the idea do (CAM and Sparky included).

to tell ya the truth I don't care either... it just always bugged the crap outta me though that so many people felt the AVP's were worth even considering as Canon, I mean I loved watching that first film, but like I have said many times..."come on".

AlienneilA... AVPR suggests that Alexa Woods was debriefed about her experience as was Dutch in 1987. The only Aliens she killed were flukes, that said Ripley has taken on more ridicolous numbers of xeno's with seemingly more ease so go figure. The mural in Prometheus depicting a xeno already suggest the creature already existed.

Well that's a bit unfair Snork......I use rigor and logic in my arguments as well.....I rarely if ever use "IMO" either.....I'm arguing from what I see....and for you to place that kind of judgement on me, to lay a backhanded assumption that I don't use rigor or logic; based on the intensity of my approach or whatever reasoning you're using....I call BS my friend...you know, that fact that you go personal rather than arguing the merits says a lot....I gotta love ya Snork, but what's that about?

Yeah CAM you do use rigor and logic, but because you are against the idea your mind is closed off to the possibility, and your personal opinion therefore clouds your judgment. No offence is intended, this is just what happens when anyone argues subjectively, instead of objectively. Take the fossilization argument for example... There are those that believe that because Dallas infers fossilization the that must mean with 100% certainty that the SJ in Alien was fossillizied. I don't care if it was fossillized, decayed or wrapped in tin foil. But when Ridley said it was a suit and I compared the definition of fossilization with what I saw I realized it wasn't and argued, and will no doubt continue to argue that case. But regardless, those that believe the words of a fictional character of fact and recent amendments will continue to argue otherwise. AVP equalling Canon. The argument is valid on either side of the fence. if a pro and cons list was written the two sides would be equal, hence why it is so hotly debated here and everywhere else. Personally I dont care either way, but if the AVP's where Canon it would open up a wealth of possibilities in both franchises.

In the end I agree with that Snorky and also this troubles me a bit...right here... [quote]The mural in Prometheus depicting a xeno already suggest the creature already existed.[/quote] I say this because, that's IF it is in fact a MURAL at all, in one of the trailers I could swear I got the distinct impression something else is going on there we don't get yet, and that something was opening or coming alive out of that thing.

No, I don't see that happening. I would never consider AVP cannon.

If you were to put all the points made on a scale then it would be leaning towards AVP being in the canon. As mentioned by Alteredstate and Snorkelbottom, my day wouldn't be ruined if AVP was officially written off as canon, but if Charles Bishop Weyland's name was dropped on the site then a lot of others would be mortified if it was officially kept in the canon. Spartacus, I don't think that keeping AVP in would ruin the Alien series. I don't think it helps it or hurts it in anyway, or anymore than Alien 3 (which I'll be watching the directors cut this weekend per your advice) or Alien 4, which a lot of folks on the forum are quick to bash as well. All of these movies have their flaws (yes I know you need nightvision goggles to watch AVPR), but they are ALL still fun and entertaining, and are unique and better than a lot of other stuff that comes down the pipe. I know everyone's entitled to their opinion and I respect that, but it seems like AVP is never shown any love around these parts. I believe the last thread on this was asking if we could press the nuke button on these films, which by the way quite a few people tried to throw Alien 3 and Res into as usual.

AVP is not Cannon because the Developers do not give a flying f**k about Cannon they want to make mindless shit to sell movies

It depends what you mean.... By the main questions then is Alien Cannon to Predator/ AVP. The answer is NO, there is no reference to Predators in any of the Alien movies i.e Alien to Alien 3 and Resurection. Thus the Predator is not Canon to the Alien Universe.... But the Alien is to the Predator one.... Alien-Alien 4 are set between 2120's to 2320's Predator was set between 1980s to early 21st century. We see no mention of Alien Xeno in Predator... but in Predator 2 we see a Xeno Skull on the Predator ship. In AVP2 we see a Space Jockeys asewell In Predators there is what looks like a Xeno being burnt, and the one organism looks a little like what someone described the Proto Xeno of Prometheus is like. So in the Predator universe there was Xenos.... I think what upsets Alien fans about AVP and Predators is mainly the differences in the time line..... In Alien we do not come into contact with the Xeno untill 22nd century over 100 years since we make contact with Predator. If you ignore Alien... pretend that Alien, and Aliens etc never ever happened. Then AVP would make sence... We see Xeno in Predator 2, we see it in Predators so when we see AVP we can go like "ahhhhh thats what one of those Trophies they had was" But when we use Alien universe then yes AVP makes no sence. If AVP was set like the games in the year 2150-2250 then yes it would have made a bit more sence as far as tie in with Alien timeline. When we are considering Alien franchise i would then consider the AVP and Predators as far as how the movies go to not be related or canon at all. However in Prometheus we do see a cloaked being and the markings on the Urns are not like the other markings of the Space Jockeys and look either a mix of Predator and Klingon.

@Prenihility I think the reason for the wait for the next game is basically if they made the game and showed the Xeno Orgin as being made as a bio weapon from doing genetic experiments with lifeforms and a Bio Former, and that the Jockey is a big man in the Suit... How would it be canon (i think they want it to be familair and canon with the idea Ridley has for the SJ). If Ridleys movie turns out to be diferent. What if they went ahead with the above idea, and one that many think the Jockey are... Only to find out that the Jockey are just mutated Humans infected by Slugs/Worms or something even more bizare.

@Snorkelbottom Yes the Story behind AVP was a good one, the Weyland connection also good idea..... Only flaw they made was to set it before 2150 In my oppinion

true dat alien dna and do let me know your impressions of that directors cut which I just flipped when I saw the first time , was in heaven in fact, I LOVE that thing. I'm not against whatever ends up happening even if we all end up embracing the avp stuff, but that 2nd film I would be ashamed to embrace anything from.

That just might be my all time favorite "different cut" of any film I have ever seen.

@ BigDave... I think you are confusing the situation. Evidence of Aliens appear in Predator franchise, But no Predators appear in Alien franchise, therefore the Alien exists in the Predators universe but the Predator does not exist in the Alien universe... That confuses the point too much, way too much - try to think of the average (non-fan) viewer. AVP set in the future would have been worse, Colonial Marines and Predators shooting each other and the Aliens, the Alien would have been twice the cannon fodder it was in Aliens. The story works, but the lazily cobbled together films leave a nasty taste in our mouths. Best idea - watch the first but ignore the action/adventure tone and then read the synopsis of the second, that's my advice.

@Snorkelbottom Yes your first paragraph was what i was saying.. just maybe i put it down in a way thats hard to read ;) As far as AVP goes, well prior to the movies the Games was good, especially AVP2 and AVP2 primal hunt games of 2002. These are simular stories to the more recent AVP game released about 2 years ago. I feel that they would have worked better than the AVP movies story. The AVP movies Story would provide Canon and connect with Predator movies but not connect with the Alien movies Time line. I feel the AVP Games timeline would have worked with Alien Timeline but not affected the Predator ones.

very creatively and classily put Snorky if you don't mind my saying so, diplomatic too and sums up how we all feel I think very very well.

The AVP movies story is fine, there is nothing wrong with them, narratively. The problems come from the approach (action/adventure & teen slasher instead of suspense/horror), the directors (Anderson of Res Evil fame and newbies the Brothers strause instead of someone more qualified - John Carpenter AVP, Jim Cameron AVPR), the actors (only decent actor IMO was Lance Henriksen) etc. I have played most, if not all of the AVP games, and their premise would not work in the movie theatre because... 1. Too action orientated. 2. The Praetorian idea would have alienated more hardcore fans than the egg-barfing. 3. It infracts too much upon the Alien universe, the AVP movies as they are act as a bridge between the two franchises, both narratively and chronologically.

Big Dave, I think one of the points that Snorkelbottom is trying to make that nobody wants to acknowledge is that now we may have a Alien link to the AVP series as you put it, with the clear reference to Weyland Industries which is from AVP. They could've chose any other name, Weyland Technologies, Weyland International, anything really, so why go with something that everyone recognizes as AVP. As well as stating Weyland Corp and Yutani Corp as two separate business entities which was introduced in AVP as well.

@ Snorkelbottom an Spartacus You're both staff. Why not create a poll relating to whether or not AVP is canon? just so the rest of us can put our input into this VERY controversial debate? Just a fun thought.

This ought to be interesting.... I love all 3 franchises (Alien, Predator and AvP1 (not 2)) in their own rights. TPTB (The Powers That Be), unfortunately, did a hatchet job of putting A and P together, IMO. If only more thought had went into its execution, then MAYBE AvP could be considered "canon". Unfortunately, short of erasing our memories and collecting up everyone's DVDs, etc. it can't therefore it will never be "canon" to the Alien "universe". I own almost every Alien and AvP comic and I'd love for some of that stuff to be "canon", but it never will be....Just EU (Expanded Universe).

piss

basically. the engineers created the bioweapon AT LEAST 2000 years ago perhaps millenia before that. and the walls of the ampuole chamber in prometheus are decorated in forms very similiar if not identical to the xenos we are well aware of. due to this fact, along with the derelict craft in alien already carrying eggs. it appears that the natural incentive of the bioweapon is to evolve through hosts to form the perfect organism. if we assume that engineers developed the weapon by breeding and bursting from engineers it is appropriate to assume that an alien queen capable of laying eggs is no different in genetic makeup if produced from an engineer or a human considering they have identical genetic makeup. this explains how eggs are present on the LV-426 derelict. and from other literature we are well aware predators have come into contact with engineers in the past so it also safe to assume they could have apprehended an alien queen and located on early Earth. there you have it everything fits.