Invite us to their planet then kill us?

@Spartacus no, it was earlier then the AMC report of 2 huge corps fighting each other. the thing I am thinking of dates from nov 2011 or so. I am gonna go play in search of.

@Spartacus [i]BY the way just so I am clear about how out of left field I know even my own theories can be/ are....[/i] We should arrange a forum trip to watch the movie, I bet we are all wrong with our theories :-)

I never said anything about a trap. In fact, I don't believe in that idea at all. I'm not even sold on the idea that it's any kind of message from the engineers at all. One possibility I'm thinking of is that it's like that scene from Close Encounters where Richard Dreyfuss character is compelled to make a sculpture of the mountain where the aliens will touch down. The star configuration could be something that's shared, in grained subconsciously, across cultures.

"@artyoh...this is pure speculation....."We know the result of their meddling: a technological civilization capable of spacefaring". We don't know ANYTHING for sure....the point of an alien race 'meddling' in our affairs is for the Jockies and Ridley to know at this point.......You;re making an assumption with no evidenciary support. Sure, I gave my opinion, but I don't KNOW.....no one does..NO ONE....." Of course I know nothing as an established [i]fact[/i]. I'm simply arguing logic. If spacefaring capability wan't either a direct or indirect result of their meddling and they didn't want us to find them, their predictive capabilites are highly questionable.

I wouldn't say it's a trap either, not from the SJ's point of view, maybe from ours though, remember its all about perspective - their measure of moral and ethics is going to be alien to us.

The problem I have with this "The star configuration could be something that's shared, in grained subconsciously, across cultures" Biehn_Bandit is it is exactly what you said...VERY Close Encounters....TOO much so in fact........While I DON'T KNOW what the point of the star map is acutually as NONE of us does, my hope is that whatever's going on is as original and unique as it can be, because I get the sense that Ridley is going for exactly that; an original take on human - alien contact that none of us is prepared to imagine beforehand,,,,,

"predictive capabilites are highly questionable"...again, an assumption artyoh...part of understanding the dynamic of human - alien contact is that we can NEVER assume motive, thought process, intent or purpose...the defintion of what is alien concerns something unkowable and that is crux of all of this...the why isn't even within our graps yet and, if things go as I hope they do, will NEVER fully be there for us to figure out....and that's what's terrifying about this prospect of contact..

"I bet we are all wrong with our theories :-)" Man LV, I hope you're right, bro. I wanna be blown away!:DD

@craigamore The thing is, I don't think Ridley Scott is THAT original or creative, not any more at least. I've said elsewhere on this site, Scott is formidable in most aspects of filmmaking, but a genius writer and story conceiver he is not. Neither is Lindelof, in my opinion. Then why the hell do I want to see this movie? Imagery, atmosphere, monsters, basically. There will be cliches and well worn story beats though. I'm extremely skeptical that ANY filmmaker can come up with something that's not similar to something else that has already been done, or come up with something that we can't imagine. And I only use CE3K as the closest example I can think of. In that film we are dealing with the compulsion of one man, not a compulsion shared across cultures and time that leads to discovery and then action put in motion by discovery. I haven't watched or read every bit of sci-fi ever made, but I think the idea of shared human subconscious imagery is original enough, especially among Hollywood tentpole films.

@craigamore This is rational. The intention just cannot have been, "warning" - it makes no sense, at all. Even to a modern human, the nature of those images shows a clear implication as we are programmed for the symbolism of imagery: of all the possible interpretations - "warning", is not one. Presumably the higher intelligence that either instructed or prompted the humans that created these images, (presumably by their own hand), would have appreciated they were at least intelligent enough to understand the most basic, and very clear, implication contained in them: [i]"I, (who is, or was among you - and who is [i]not[/i] you), came from: there"..[/i] All the rest of it and the purpose of making that clear association and embedding it in human consciousness is debatable but, to me, your interpretation perfectly stands reason. I’d only raise my hand as follows: While it may be worth keeping in mind that at least several of the human societies that created these images, by their own hand, were actually quite sophisticated – (they weren't grunting proto-apes: they had developed language and social structure. They must to have done, or there would not have been much point in communicating with them) - they were not Spacefairing, so yes: perhaps the development of that level of intelligence and technology was a surprise. However, I find it very hard to imagine that, where Intelligence already exists, the possibility and expectation of continued development of that Intelligence would have been beyond the anticipation of the Species we are discussing: that may have been meddling in our development for millennia? Also “Worship”, usually denotes a lot more pomp and permanency? Where are the huge temples? Where are the huge raised stones? Where are the rituals, documented and embedded in our History?.. Instead, we have some cave graffiti. That had to be “uncovered”. Uncovered at a Time that seems to have co-incided, somewhat, with our ability to actually go to the places on the graffiti. Bit of a co-incidence these things weren’t discovered 100, 200, 300, 400 years ago, no?….We would have been just as able to understand the simple associations of the images at that time… But we wouldn’t have been able to actually get there. Strange.

@craigamore AFAIK, there's no universal requirement for aliens to behave logically, but there [i]is[/i] a requirement for consistency of internal logic within a story for it to remain coherent for a decidedly human audience.

Whose to say some of these artefacts featuring the depiction star system weren't discovered beforehand, but the similarity between them was never noticed. Very often when ancient artefacts are found they are stored away for years, sometimes decades at a time.

@Snorkelbottom Agreed and accepted.

Agreed allinamberclad...but I wouldn't say there's no way they wouldn't have anticpated man becoming a spacefaring race...I'm saying we shouldn't ASSUME that concept... As to the sudden discovery of all of these artifacts...I'm not leaning towards that literally...I would think it's more likely that that many, not all, of these arifacts were discovered over the centuries of human archeological research...I think it probably is more of a situation of Shaw and Holloway picking up on the connection and ultimately finding that last cave image... where humans appear to be worshipping larger beings.... [img]http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/7867998/img/prometheus/caveenhance.png[/img] ....that becomes a moment where everything falls into place for them and they seek funding or some financial backer that becomes Weyland.......

@artyoh...."internal logic within a story for it to remain coherent for a decidedly human audience". That internal logic, still, does not have to be coherent in regards to the intentions of a race we would not know or understnad, comprehend....that's the WHOLE point...That concept is in and of it self internally logical given that the subject of the story is alien and unknowlable... ...internal logic is necessary and it is ENTIRELY internally logical that our characters and the audience WOULD NOT FATHOM the intent of a race like the Jockies and there's no reason to believe we HAVE to or NEED to have answers to said questions and the ASSUMPTIONS we have...

@craigamore Totally agreed, (we should not assume), and accepted. Still, I've been wondering about the odd disassociation of them from the rest of our History: each culture feels they were important and present enough to record so permanently - and then just [i]nothing?[/i]..... This film really is a puzzle, at every turn.

Their specific reasons for interfering in our development is irrelevant to my point. Being totally surprised by direct or ancillary results of that interference, [i]is[/i] relevant. I mean Jeez, the large central figure in that cave-painting you just posted, is pointing directly at the star cluster. If that doesn't indicate deliberate intent, what would? So, thousands of years ago, they somehow conveyed to a number of different human cultures, exactly where they came from. Thousands of years later, we show up and OMG! they never saw that one coming? Sorry, I'm just not buying that........but perhaps I'm a bit too married to simple logic.

We're playing those mind games together Pushing the barriers, planting seeds Playing the mind guerrilla Chanting the mantra, peace on earth We all been playing those mind games forever Some kinda druid dudes lifting the veil Doing the mind guerrilla Some call it magic, the search for the grail Love is the answer and you know that for sure Love is a flower, you got to let it, you got to let it grow So keep on playing those mind games together Faith in the future, outta the now You just can't beat on those mind guerrillas Absolute elsewhere in the stones of your mind Yeah we're playing those mind games forever Projecting our images in space and in time Yes is the answer and you know that for sure Yes is surrender, you got to let it, you got to let it go So keep on playing those mind games together Doing the ritual dance in the sun Millions of mind guerrillas Putting their soul power to the karmic wheel Keep on playing those mind games forever Raising the spirit of peace and love Love... (I want you to make love, not war, I know you've heard it before) ~John Lennon !

agreed allinamberclad....quite a puzzle....it might be that the knowledge of man's [i]benefactors[/i] was lost as easily from man's collective knowledge as the means to build all of those fantastic monuments like the pyramids in Egypt and South America....there's a perfection to some of those structures and a neatness with which multi-ton blocks fit together that we still have difficulty understanding because the knowledge just slipt from man's memory over the millenia.....it might be that simple....

@artyoh...."Thousands of years later, we show up and OMG! they never saw that one coming? Sorry, I'm just not buying that"....if you actually read my posts, you'd notice that I said thiis "I wouldn't say there's no way they wouldn't have anticpated man becoming a spacefaring race...I'm saying we shouldn't ASSUME that concept." which is exactly what you're doing...assuming. As to this...."I mean Jeez, the large central figure in that cave-painting you just posted, is pointing directly at the star cluster. If that doesn't indicate deliberate intent, what would?"....as I said, it could be as simple as "this is where we are from", indicated by the being pointing to it...simple.... You continue to leap to assumtions as Shaw does in seeing a figure pointing at a cluster of stars believing it's an invitation...it's a figure pointing; as in, this is important, where we are from important.....come to visit us impoirtant?...there's not enough there to make that conclusion....

For mankind to look at any of those things and say, "yeppers, let's get our stuff together and go there right now" seems ludacris to me.

Thank you Spartacus...you put it simply in a way that needed saying....

I think they saw something coming from those star clusters that's what they were saying.Just my opinion, and also, that it is a severe ass warning, don't mess with them guys.

The artists knew not what they did, for if they did they might not have done it. Or something.

And also @artyoh....let's look at the sequence of events here...Shaw finds this cave painting and ASSUMES it's an invitation to come find them...they go and find them...everything goes to shit....Shaw, with a very upset and weary expression, says "I was wrong..we wer SO wrong..and I'm so sorry." Now, I could be wrong that her statement there refers to her assumption of an invitation...I'm assuming, but it seems likely...the trailer's editing would suggest that corrolation......therefor, she was wrong to ASSUME it was an invitation...and we would be wrong to assume the same...

Biehn_Bandit..they did know they were doing in painting that cave wall...this is where [i]they[/i] come from...simple as that...

If we are all going to assume that these tablets are coming from these different cultures in man's past as shown in the trailer and scattered about the earth, than think of it this way, the Message itself was Universal, not for EVERYONE to go there, not enough room for that many house guests and besides what does a Space Jockey make us all for dinner? "It was a message, from our ancestors to be wary, Look... "you kids... when you get around to it thousands of years from where we are now... you go ahead... frolic... do what you do...go ahead, all across the great galaxy...have fun... but beware... don't mess around over there. We are always seeing crap coming from over there."

what?

I said... If we are all going to assume that these tablets are coming from these different cultures in man's past as shown in the trailer and scattered about the earth, than think of it this way, the Message itself was Universal, not for EVERYONE to go there, not enough room for that many house guests and besides what does a Space Jockey make us all for dinner? "It was a message, from our ancestors to be wary, Look... "you kids... when you get around to it thousands of years from where we are now... you go ahead... frolic... do what you do...go ahead, all across the great galaxy...have fun... but beware... don't mess around over there. We are always seeing crap coming from over there."

our ancestors used stone tablets to draw what they saw!

@craigamore Fascinating. That [i]is[/i] a fair correlation - and I see where you are coming from, [I have some strong feelings on the matter of Modern Man and his assumed superiority that is nothing to do with aliens benefactors - let [i]us[/i], as Moderns, try and build a pyramid: "Ancient", does not mean "backward"] - [i]however:[/i] in the example, it is specific knowledge in the form of technique that has been lost - the [i]structures[/i], remain; as do names and actions endure, even if they transposed into legend or fairy tale from the telling of it? The people and societies we describe imprinted themselves on our collective conscious so permanently that they are with us, even to this day? We may no longer know [i]how[/i] they did so, [knowledge of certain things being a priceless and powerful, jealousy guarded commodity that died with the class that owned it] - yet, still, know that they did so - and we know some of [i]what[/i] they did... How, [i]not,[/i] similarly, the actions of The Super Beings from Space?!.. I've realised, now, that, "Puzzle", has stopped doing this thing justice.

I'm not saying our coming to their homeworld was [i]necessarily[/i] a specific part of the original plan. I'm saying that if they never predicted the possiblity of that eventuality, they're hopelessly incompetent in the demigod department......which for me, at least, would tend to make them less intimidating. In my personal [i]opinion[/i], however, it would work logically within the framework of a story designed for human consumption, ( given what little we've already seen in the way of pictograms, multiple temples, etc. ) if it [i]was[/i] always part of a much larger plan. "This is where we're from.......if and when you show up there, it will be time for phase 2 ( or whatever ) If you never do, then the experiment failed. You don't have to spell out chapter and verse, exactly what the plan is, but without any indication of a plan, their actions would appear essentially random and confusing to audiences. Even in "2001" -as inscrutable as it was- some kind of plan was clearly in the works. I'll actually be a bit surprised if there's no indication in this movie, that the Engineers have intefered with the development of [i]multiple[/i] races.

I'm not saying our coming to their homeworld was [i]necessarily[/i] a specific part of the original plan. I'm saying that if they never predicted the possiblity of that eventuality, they're hopelessly incompetent in the demigod department......which for me at least, would tend to make them much less intimidating. In my personal [i]opinion[/i], however, it would work logically within the framework of a story designed for human consumption, ( given what little we've already seen....multiple, independently produced pictograms, multiple temples on LV223 ) if it [i]was[/i] always part of a much larger plan. "This is where we're from.......if and when you show up there, that will be a clear indication it's time for phase 2 ( or whatever ) If you never do, then the experiment failed. You don't have to spell out chapter and verse, exactly what the plan is, but without any indication of a plan, their actions would appear essentially random to audiences. Even in "2001" -as inscrutable as it was- some kind of plan was clearly in the works. I'll actually be more than a bit surprised if there's no indication in this movie, that [i]other[/i] races have been similarly interfered with.

"And also @artyoh....let's look at the sequence of events here...Shaw finds this cave painting and ASSUMES it's an invitation to come find them...they go and find them...everything goes to shit....Shaw, with a very upset and weary expression, says "I was wrong..we wer SO wrong..and I'm so sorry." Now, I could be wrong that her statement there refers to her assumption of an invitation...I'm assuming, but it seems likely...the trailer's editing would suggest that corrolation......therefor, she was wrong to ASSUME it was an invitation...and we would be wrong to assume the same..." I rather think that if her statement actually has anything to do with an Invitation, she means they were wrong [i]to accept it[/i].

I sound like such a fool, but here goes... RS didn't just show us maps given to several civilizations. He also shows us an independent scene about the beginning of time. The true riddle lies there. There's something he can't hint at by simply using the narrative of the film itself. T tell us about these being's intentions or history, he can't do that without showing a scene from it directly to us. Also, ponder why they made us free and intelligent and not servile - not like the robots that we make. Why would they do that? That said, here's what we know: A being from a very advanced species came to communicate with us, left information about its origins with several of the 'up-and-coming' societies on earth, and may have done so because 1. It/he knew only one civilization out of the several they visited would survive 2. It/he figured that we would piece it together, even if the intention of the pictures was lost over time, if the civilizations eventually met and came together and shared notes: "oh, yeah, you were visited too, I guess that wasn't some joke on the wall back home." They would not have been so specific about the star system if they were warning us. If it was simply a recollection, it could have been the larger figure with random assortments of heavens. If they have something against us, they would let us know it up front: warnings saying, don't leave earth, the universe is ours. Maybe a picture of a solar system/galaxies - things we couldn't understand until we were advanced - but with a big red X over them. Instead they gave us free will and self-reflective intelligence and freedom (excepting what we do to each other, of course). So, I think whoever left that 'had a stake in us.' And yes, they could have made tons of us early on, and used us as cattle to incubate whatever, so that makes no sense. They could have killed us long ago. Instead they seemingly gave us a gift, and paid each of us a visit - and we are being told they even 'invented us' at the beginning of time - i.e., they created us out of dust. Or maybe only one of them was on our side. One gave us a gift and paid a price for it. Maybe the derelict on LV-426 was sent by the rest of the SJ's to erase the work that he had done, and it crashed. Or maybe he ensured that it crashed by unleashing a havoc that took his own life. So, when we arrive, we walk right into the opponents' monument - the ones who don't like us. Or we walk into a crime scene. Still, if that's the case, if one SJ was hiding us and helping us develop freely all along, why tell us where he's from, unless he was being naive. Also, I don't buy the evolution idea: i.e., that "until we're evolved to a level where we can visit them they won't act." We haven't evolved a millimeter since those civilizations were visited. That's known human, civilized history. We've been the same biologically ever since. Only our technology has changed. And again whoever made us must have expected our intelligence, our abilities.

We have to know the reason Engineers seed life. I am thinking it is nefarious for the Engineers. Someone posted here about the skull on the temple. It resembles a Geiger design of a temple that spews body parts and excrement. Maybe the engineers use higher level beings to fuel their bio-tech development, and the whole thing is a trap. I don't think "we were so wrong" refers to just thinking we are wrong about believing we are meeting god. It also means they were wrong about benevolence of the situation. The whole thing screams of watch out for alien shit contaminating you or killing you. However, they bring pistols, flamthrowers, scientists, and a ramming device called Prometheus. They also don't seem weirded out and in complete psychological distress, until shit goes bad. The movie was to be named Paradise, so you have the forbidden apple angle. So, the stolen fruit and stolen fire fits easily too.

The pictograms are neither a warning or an invitation...they're simply an acknowledgment made by early civilized humans of an extraterrestrial culture higher than Mankind, and a rough map of where they came from. Recognizing the limited cognizant abilities of the humans, the visitors gave them their point of origin as a simple crude star map. Simply leaving that information with the humans does not constitute an invitation for those humans of that era, of course, but for future humans who may or may not survive as a race capable of developing the tecnology to reach the stars. I believe that in the thinking of the visitors that if...a BIG if given the nature of human beings, if humans can get themselves together to the point of reaching the the location shown on the map, humans will receive benevolence. I do not think that the visitors played any role in the creation of either the Earth or humans, they merely stopped by and said hello and here is where we come from, so to speak. I have modified my views on the pictograms from an earlier theory. My exposure to all the trailers and images released by Fox ended when that London event was held, apparently showing expanded footage and some of the principals also spoke. I held off viewing the David video for a week or so, but when I saw it, I did a 1080 on many theories. There are no jockeys or blue guys or xenos or Waldos of any kind on the planet the Prometheus goes to in the trailer...it is deserted. This movie is about David, with a lot of collateral action, ambience and human nature on display. This film is in part a nod by Ridley Scott to both Steven Spielberg and Stanley Kubrick...not a ripoff, but a tribute and Scott's own original story. David is "the blue guy"..and David is the last entity standing when Weyland shows up to see what happened to his exploratory mission.

The pictograms are neither a warning or an invitation...they're simply an acknowledgment made by early civilized humans of an extraterrestrial culture higher than Mankind, and a rough map of where they came from. Recognizing the limited cognizant abilities of the humans, the visitors gave them their point of origin as a simple crude star map. Simply leaving that information with the humans does not constitute an invitation for those humans of that era, of course, but for future humans who may or may not survive as a race capable of developing the tecnology to reach the stars. I believe that in the thinking of the visitors that if...a BIG if given the nature of human beings, if humans can get themselves together to the point of reaching the location shown on the map, humans will receive benevolence. I do not think that the visitors played any role in the creation of either the Earth or humans, they merely stopped by and said hello and here is where we come from, so to speak. I have modified my views on the pictograms from an earlier theory. My exposure to all the trailers and images released by Fox ended when that London event was held, apparently showing expanded footage and some of the principals also spoke. I held off viewing the David video for a week or so, but when I saw it, I did a 1080 on many theories. There are no jockeys or blue guys or xenos or Waldos of any kind on the planet the Prometheus goes to in the trailer...it is deserted. This movie is about David, with a lot of collateral action, ambience and human nature on display. This film is in part a nod by Ridley Scott to both Steven Spielberg and Stanley Kubrick...not a ripoff, but a tribute and Scott's own original story. David is "the blue guy"..and David is the last entity standing when Weyland shows up to see what happened to his exploratory mission. In Alien, the humans faced an external threat: in Prometheus the threat is internal, among their own ranks.

In the Old testament (where dates correspond to the dated finds in the start of the film) god is frequently depicted as a 'we' or 'they' and even more frequently depicted as jealous, spiteful, vengeful and genocidal. So if the spce jockeys were to be hell bent on eradicating us after stealing their technology it could be said that Prometheus is in fact biblically inspired. People need to read a bit more.

Exactly allinamberclad....that's what I was going for... "There are no jockeys"? Forever War...yeah not buying that based on everything Scott has said...this entire film is meant to be about who they are and what relationship they have to us.....