Prometheus and AVP

http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Vault-Definitive-Story-Making/dp/0760341125 this is a great book Darkeequation it shows a lot of the original ideas I"m just trying to expand your knowledge of the ALIEN universe. Seems you are well versed in AVP but maybe not in some other areas. I'm just trying to help.

To be honest, AVP looked more like a computer game. Good action no story. I hope this gives a good story. The only thing i wonder, why do they want to exterminate us? Will that really stay unanswered?

@ Drakeequation - i was referring to the book, but anyways you get my point. Its not what you do, its how you do it.

ShinobiX9X it is explained I don't want to post how on here because it's not in the spoiler section EDIT got confused where I was at David speaks to the engineer and he says something to the extent that to create us they have to destroy us also. We (humans) seem to be part of some larger plan. Also, Shaw and David leave to find out what this plan is so yes, the engineers created us and the purpose will hopefully be full revealed in another movie.

@ saintsSinphony - This thread IS in the spoiler section

@ SaintsSinphony I read all the spoilers and it is not really explained why they want to exterminate us. At the end of the film Shaw is flying to the Engineer homeworld hoping to find out why they want to destroy us. And this thread is in the spoiler section.

yes SNORK that explains it well (like your new(er) icon BTW wouldn't you have loved trent to do the soundtrack? I would have hearing "The Becoming" somewhere in the film would be awesome)

@ Saints - Trent Reznors music would def suit both the Alien franchise and the Terminator franchise.

The Alien vs AVP argument aside, it seems that when Ridley Scott said this was a new movie with only faint trace elements of Alien he was lying. The film seems to follow the story structure used in other Alien films almost exactly (especially AVP in my opinion). And by this, I mean the skeleton structure of the story like where certain conflicts arise where the surprises are and even the members composing the group. This is not the high-brow science fiction epic that will tackle the big issues but only use the big issues as a backdrop for the monster movie that is its core.

One problem... A lot of people, having read the wiki plot and the spoilers are pre-empting their opinion of the film. Imagine if a reviewer did the same, basing their review of a film on leaked information rather than actually watching the film. Yes, i agree that on the face of thing it seems that no new ground is covered, but how can you compare a 200 word summary to a 2 hour film. You can't. the plot summary for Alien on wiki reads just like any other B movie made in the 50's, and although Alien is essentially a B movie, it was done as an A movie, and the film WAY surpasses its simple, overused premise, and ultimately stands miles above any of them. In other words... Wait till you've actually seen the film before passing judgment.

I think snorky and SS are making good points here. Sure it's a familiar framework. But it seems like the framework has been fleshed out in a more thought provoking way than AVP. And moreover, RS is pretty openly unhappy with the direction a lot of the storytelling subsequent to Alien went, so making it fresh and keeping it pretty similar is kinda genius. Like snorky was trying to get across-it's not what you do, it's how you do it. Check out the AVP memorable quotes on imdb. Or look up the cheesy visuals. Or the video-game-cut-scene worthy action pieces. A similar framework. Sure. The execution... Surely it won't be news to you, drake, that Shakespeare basically told the same stories that had been told before him. It's how it was done that made it noteworthy. If you wanna crap on Lindelof, by all means. I can get on that train. But the idea that this is a completely recycled story lacking thought provoking ideas is about as absurd as the memorable plot points from AVP. 'Thousands of years ago, these hunters found a backwater planet. They taught humans how to build, and were worshiped as gods. Every hundred years, the gods would return. And when they did, they would expect a sacrifice. Humans were used to breed the ultimate prey. The hunters would battle with these great serpents to prove themselves worthy to carry the mark. But if the hunters lost, they made sure nothing survived. An entire civilization wiped out overnight.' 'So, the humanoids, the hunters, they brought those creatures here to hunt?' 'And they use us like cattle. We're hosts for them to breed. The heat bloom was designed to lure us down here. This whole thing was a trap. Without us, there could be no hunt. ' A reduction to hunters and cattle to get that exposition across. Reminiscent of how you're reducing the Prometheus framework in this thread.

@ Drakeequation: Sorry if I was a bit arsh...but I wanted to make a point... How do you want to speak about gods without tempels or.. how can you approach the theme of life and humans without talking about the big questions of life. How can you talk about life and not touch the sphere of eternal life. Here the old or dying Weyland plays a bigger play.. He is not only the one who has a big big ego, but is the figure that moves all the others... he accept to pay and organize all but only the reach his goal.. maybe eternal life.... his role connect the story with the question of..." can we live for ever?" To make it short... I think these are all logical consequences and choises and situations for somebody who has discovered, maybe, our creators/gods. :)

[b]PLEASE[/b][i][/i] stop talking about AVP. That movie does not exist. It has nothing to do with the production of this film. Even relating any Scott movie to a Anderson film is absurd. The argument for the relation between AVP and Prometheus is critically flawed and I agree wholeheartedly with SaintSin. These are genre conventions! The script for AVP had been siting around for about 20 years before its eventual bastardized form. Originally both Arnold and Weaver were involved with the production. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT between the similarity of Prometheus and ALIEN, Obannan had a hand in the original script for AVP and Alien. It was W.S. bastardization of that script that produced what we now know and hate with a passion. [b]Lets get real here guys.[/b][i][/i] This movie is so exciting and fantastic, why can't we all just get along. How could this be more exciting. In what other Sci -Fi saga have we been treated to a "re-imagining" of the central and core concepts of life and surrealism. I'm banking on Scott here. Not because he is using the conventions of other Sci-Fi films, but because of what he isn't doing. He is crafting a HUGE picture. He is exploring the very star stuff of why we are all fan boys! There will be moments in Prometheus that will define this genre and years later fan boys will be arguing over their "references" in a new recent production, but this is why we love art and film so much. It is the linear, chronological connection between all art that gives it meaning for us. Just as Picasso would have never existed with Monet. Art moves us, and Sci Fi dazzles!

@Snorkelbottom I think my main issue is that Ridley Scott made it seem like this would finally be a science fiction film with great emphasis on the science and philosophy behind creation. My background is in behavioral neuroscience so I was hoping to finally see a film that tackled the big issues in the way they deserved. Instead, it seems like this is going to be another "science" fiction film that I will end up rolling my eyes at. It was my hope, that we would gain insight into the psychology of the Engineers to maybe get some background about how the wiring of our neural circuits might be a less advanced form of theirs. My interest has always been in the biopsychology of motivation (I did a good deal of research and undergraduate work in this area) so I was hoping to see some hints as to what motivates an advanced life-form done in a convincing manner.

[b]PLEASE[/b][i][/i] stop talking about AVP. That movie does not exist. It has nothing to do with the production of this film. Even relating any Scott movie to a Anderson film is absurd. The argument for the relation between AVP and Prometheus is critically flawed and I agree wholeheartedly with SaintSin. These are genre conventions! The script for AVP had been siting around for about 20 years before its eventual bastardized form. Originally both Arnold and Weaver were involved with the production. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT between the similarity of Prometheus and ALIEN, Obannan had a hand in the original script for AVP and Alien. It was W.S. bastardization of that script that produced what we now know and hate with a passion. [b]Lets get real here guys.[/b][i][/i] This movie is so exciting and fantastic, why can't we all just get along. How could this be more exciting. In what other Sci -Fi saga have we been treated to a "re-imagining" of the central and core concepts of life and surrealism. I'm banking on Scott here. Not because he is using the conventions of other Sci-Fi films, but because of what he isn't doing. He is crafting a HUGE picture. He is exploring the very star stuff of why we are all fan boys! There will be moments in Prometheus that will define this genre and years later fan boys will be arguing over their "references" in a new recent production, but this is why we love art and film so much. It is the linear, chronological connection between all art that gives it meaning for us. Just as Picasso would have never existed with Monet. Art moves us, and Sci Fi dazzles!

@ Drakeequation... being in behavioral neuroscience, you should be aware of communication, and that 90% of our communication is non-verbal, or in other words via body language. For example in a job interview most people know what answers to say and what questions to ask, but it is their body language that seals the deal - the person leaning forward and engaging in eye contact is showing more interest than someone slouching and staring at the walls. there are other analogies, but I chose the one you would appreciate... We can all get the ingredients for a recipe, but only those adept can cook fine cuisine.

@ Proxy Say what you want about AVP as a movie, but the motivation for the Predators is much better fleshed out in the script. In Prometheus we are never given any explanation at all for why they do what they do. In terms of writing, AVP is more advanced than Prometheus in that respect. From a visual, directorial, and sound perspective I am sure Prometheus will be light years beyond AVP. That is not what I am discussing here though, I am talking about story.

@ Snorkelbottom I would agree with you IF the Engineer in the film was in charge and not just a soldier following order. His personal reason for attacking the crew might be there, but the order to exterminate Earth was given prior to the arrival of the Prometheus. This is why Shaw is going to travel to the Engineer homeworld at the end of the film. You cannot tell by the body language of an alien soldier why the seeding of life and subsequent genocide of Earth was ordered.

And the full story cannot be summarized in its entirety in a 200 word wiki summary. for example... At the minute I am compiling a chronology on all 10 films, and the plots I have written down for each film take up approx 3 pages each (single line spacing), whereas the wiki versions of the plot don't even fill 1 page. The info that has been spoiled is in summary, the full story is much more detailed, and not in any summary - because it would be too long.

@ Snorkelbottom if the motivation for why they wanted to exterminate us was in the film then why would Shaw be traveling to the Engineer Homeworld with the express purpose of finding that out (which is what the sequel will probably be about) at the end of the film?