Forum Topic

Promethian Man
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 5:52 PMThe movie makes a significant point to convey that Shaw is unable to bear children. It is not a throwaway moment, and they build a significant scene around her distress regarding this point.
Yet, her infertility bears absolutely NO point in furthering the plot -The alien embryo which grows rapidly after she is impregnated by Holloway, would have done so whether she was barren or not.
If she had had an opportunity to wrestle with the emotions - no matter how briefly - of whether to destroy the abomination, or to keep the only - and miraculous - fruit she'd ever bear ( of her relationship with her now dead lover, Holloway ) , that would have been an interesting, and chilling story point.
As it stands, her not being able to have children had absolutely no point within the framework of the story.
17 Replies

SamboJim
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 6:15 PMYes I know it is man, I thought something like that would be a central theme of the film. The relationship between beings and their creators. Such as David and the Humans, The jockeys and their creations (us) and the Jockeys and perhaps their creators. And how each of them have tried to destroy their creations or tried to destroy their creators. Metaphor upon metaphor about parenting and creation(this is Damon Lindelof, most of Lost was about parent issues) But unfortunately there was no big picture. The movie had no central theme or deep feeling. Such a waste. In before the Prometheus Nut huggers in denial

Promethian Man
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 6:20 PMExactly, no 'big picture' - even though they keep telling us in the movie about the big picture - the story itself doesn't deal with the big picture. It entirely side-steps it!

abordoli
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 6:19 PMIt was character building. Holloway makes the comment, she gets upset, he comforts her, they make love. In addition, Holloway says something to the effect that "creating life can be done by anyone"....she says, "I can't create life!" (before tearing up). This is massive character development, if nothing else.
You do make a valid point in that "her not being able to have children had absolutely no point", however, "within the framework of the story" in regards to character development, it is HUGE!!!
SamboJim:
[i]"In before the Prometheus Nut huggers in denial"[/i]
What is your issue with members that like the movie? This constitutes disrespect of forum members and a preemptive attack. Consider your membership here "under review"....and this a "warning" to be respectful.
-abordoli (staff)

Promethian Man
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 6:29 PM@abordoli,
I do take your point, and if this was a TV series, I could appreciate the character development/character setiing-up very much.
Within the framework of the story given to us on-screen, it definitely IS something important in the moment - and therefore would seem to indicate her infertility would come to play out in some significant way in the movie - which it absolutely doesn't.
THE EXACT SAME THING would have occurred if Holloway had tupped Vickers. An alien squid would still have been born no matter what.
Hence, Shaw's infertile state is rendered absolutely pointless for this movie.

allinamberclad
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 6:49 PMYes, now - while I do think this movie has a lot of very serious problems, I do think we do have to try and be fair.
I don't fully agree with what you're suggesting, here:
Yes, it is made very clear she is infertile.
And then, yes: she is pregnant.
I would have thought the purpose of highlighting her infertility is to underline the fact that the pregnancy she carries cannot, in any sense, be human?
The exact point being: so that there [i]is no[/i] confusion about how human it might be - and so that there [i]is no[/i] debate about, "shall I keep it, it's the last part of poor Charlie".
An opportunity to "wrestle with the emotions" is obviously [i]not[/i] what was required?
What was required was a very rapid progression of Action to, "get it out of me".
So, I'd say her infertility absoluetly [i]is[/i] significant to the plot in those terms - with her infertility established, there is no debate, and no need for one.
Now, I actually don't think the Plot is particularly good, (and maybe it would have benefited from a wrestle of emotions and a bit less rapidity), but that is slightly different discussion - if we are discussing [i]this[/i] little bit of business, within the Plot as it stands, then this little bit of business, within the Plot as it stands, does seem perfectly sound, to me.
It might actually be one of the few examples that [i]does[/i] seem sound, to me.

abordoli
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 6:46 PMI do like SamboJim's point that this is about creators and the creation that become creators themselves. This is huge in Greek mythology.
I'll have to get back to you on possible reasons why it was worth making a point that Shaw was infertile. The only thing I can think of is that it demonstrates the power of the engineer's DNA tech. It can transform even the barren into fertile pastures for its bio-weapons (this is a selling point at a an intergalactic bio-weapon convention, no?).

Promethian Man
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 6:56 PMI absolutely concur with your explanation abordoli - on both counts.
Now if the film explained that ( the latter ) in some way, I could give them credit for it. As it stands, that's one of the countless things they are leaving up to the fans' imaginations ( - yet curiously in the movie, Janek is able to deduce with certaintly that the place is a military installation filled with WMDs... )
It is these contradictory plotting curios which have annoyed me since walking out of the film.
I just wish ( and still do hope ) that the filmakers ( Ridley/Spaith/Lindelof ), have thought of things in the way you have - and I wish they could have demonstrated that imaginative/plotting prowess within the story itself, rather than leaving the fans to pull it all together.
I'm not asking fans to be spoon-fed, but a story ought to be well-written and water-tight within the parameters it has set out for itself.
But for visiting these boards and hearing the breadth of amazing ideas from the fans, the film itself could basically be read as a hollow shell.

Promethian Man
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 7:10 PM@allinamberclad,
I love your explanation of course, I just hope the filmmakers are as brilliantly imaginative as you and abordoli are, but I highly doubt it.
Hopefully, if they follow through with what you say ( in the sequel ), I will eat my words...

abordoli
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 7:11 PMMaybe the 21 minutes of footage left out was the exposition that was needed, but was removed due to pacing concerns.

allinamberclad
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 7:12 PM@Promethian Man
Listen, I don't want to come over as if I'm attacking you? In principle, I agree; and your manner of expressing your point is exemplary.
It's just that in an environment where I can plainly see that there really are significant issues with this film and yet where there seems to be a hard-line forming ready to denounce anyone who raises the matter as an, "idiot", or a, "hater", and I am literally sick of seeing that, I feel like wanting to ensure reasoned criticism like yours beyond reproach.
Within the Plot, the business seems fine - better, perhaps, to say the Plot here, like [i]so[/i] many other places, was actually weak and terribly, terribly rushed - in a ridiculous headlong stampede to get to the med-pod.
*And I agree with you elsewhere - (these are all symptoms of a Prime problem I've yet to give a name to) - but, all these Big, "All About Everything" Questions that this film side-stepped?...It all amounts to not delivering on what was declared. Not good. Not good at all.

Promethian Man
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 7:15 PMI was hoping too that the excised footage will do more to clarify certain elements of the story - although one of my friends suggested it would be a further 21 minutes of confusion!!

allinamberclad
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 7:18 PM@Guys
Is that confirmed 21 minutes?!
That seems one Hell of a long time, WTH?!
What actually happened here?!...

Promethian Man
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 7:21 PM@ allinamberclad,
Um, no confusion?
I didn't think you were attacking me at all. I was lauding your explanation, as well as abordoli's.
My criticisms and frustrations are limited to the film and the filmmakers, yet I admire the explanations the fans are coming up with.
The issue is that fans are pointing out all the plot-holes because, there really is little of substance in the actual body of the story itself, except for what we are able to infer.
I have a love-hate relationship with the film ( having watched it 3 times already ), and am eager/frustrated to have to wait for a sequel to enjoy a 'well-rounded' story.

allinamberclad
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 7:26 PM@Promethian Man
OK.
Yes, I think you call it correctly.

WhyDontTheyFreezeHim
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 7:30 PMI was confused why they bothered mentioning she was infertile. At first I thought it was pointless but then I thought this(quote from abordoli) -
"The only thing I can think of is that it demonstrates the power of the engineer's DNA tech. It can transform even the barren into fertile pastures for its bio-weapons"
@allinamberclad - "So, I'd say her infertility absoluetly is significant to the plot in those terms - with her infertility established, there is no debate, and no need for one."
That makes a lot of sense too.

mountaindewbass
MemberOvomorphJun-08-2012 7:37 PMI took that scene as Halloway didnt want to have children with Shaw...or that he was unsure if he wanted kids. I didnt take it that she was barren.

sadako
MemberOvomorphJun-09-2012 11:29 AMThere must be a logical explanation for 'highlighting' the fact she was infertile...
Remember this is the first type of 'facehugger' that was be born in this manner i.e through conception.
All the other types of facehugger have come via the Queens Eggs.
So we already know that both male and females can be impregnated - it doesn't matter if you are infertile - perhaps that is the beauty of the killing machine.
Self sustaining biological system...
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