What Happened to the Engineers on LV_223?

Did anyone notice that one of the stasis pods had a ripped hole in it. I noticed this each time David visited the site. Could this be what took care of the engineers? Comments please. For reference look at the movie stills. [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/gallery/view/img/349][img]http://www.prometheus-movie.c

Just a thought. I believe that David found some slime on some of the markings on the walls that he touched in a certain configuration and the wall or door was opened. I think he also made a comment like "impressive" when smelling the found slime/goo.

Well, I wouldn't usually dare to contradict Ridley Scott, but in this case I think it's worth questioning whether he is pulling the wool over your eyes. He had already been asked if this was Gliese 86 according to reports. And what does he say? "The planet where they go is called Zeta 2 Reticuli, which actually is an existing moon, just off Io" Zeta 2 Reticuli is not a moon, it's a star. It's not 'off Io" This is nonsense. Why does he say it then? I think it's for the same reason that if someone asked George Lucas, just after Star Wars "Hey is that Darth Vader dude related to Luke Skywalker" Lucas would have said... "No... Vader is a Sith, not a Jedi" rather than "sure, but try to still be surprised when he confronts him in the sequel will you?". In this case Ridley Scott has a genuine motive to mislead us. For one, thing with LV 426 being light years further away from LV 223, it pretty much rules out the idea of a ship heading from LV 223 to Earth making an Emergency landing on LV 426. That would be like a flight from London to Athens making an emergency landing in Dublin. Hi Eddie. I think Lindelhof said "definitively" rather than "Definitely". I.e. it certainly answered the question one way or the other. Again, if they didn't want to keep us guessing, they would have explained it in the film, and why would the blurt out the answers while it's still on release? I think the DNA match, plus the atmosphere inside being perfect for humans, and a docking system where they can go straight from the ship to the lower levels of the "dome", even though the Space Jockeys can breathe in the poison outside, is proof that the place has been built for humans to be brought there.

Hey guys, last night I re-watched the whole Alien Quadrilogy just for the possible details that we can missed on Prometheus.. Does anybody also aware that in Aliens (2), Ripley discussed her encounters with his employers (in beginning after her rescue).. and during the end of the discussion, her employer tells that there is a "Terraforming proggress" on LV-426 (renamed LV-223).. And he also tells Ripley that the amount of Terraformed planets are currently in 70's ... And when the team arrives on the LV-426, the surface is completely breathable. On the Prometheus we see that the Humans has not capable on such technologies currently.. The LV-223 is barren-planet and completely unbreathable. But we see that the Derelict Ship of Engineers can capable on such technologies, and the interiour of the derelict-ship is completely breathable.. So on the Prometheus we see that the Derelict-Ship contains a technology that can convert the atmosphere in to breathable surfaces.. And can terraform the planet.. So the Engineers has the technology of "Terraforming Planets".. So am I only one that aware that in the future-Prometheus, it is possible that the Humans did contact with the Rebelled-Space Jockeys, and learn from them for Terraforming Technology directly from them... İt is the only possible explanation... :O

Hi, I may be missing something here, but isn't it obvious that xenomorphs killed the Space Jockeys*? And there is something else that confuses me in this thread. I had thought that the planet in PROMETHEUS is the planet in the same one in ALIEN and ALIENS, and that Shaw's last transmission is the message that Ash picks up in the Nostromo (and he deceives them into going). I thought the crash was meant to tie directly into the scene in ALIEN. Althopugh, as I type I remember the Space Jockey was in the pilot seat in ALIEN wasn't he? It has been over 15 years since I last saw these movies, so forgive the lack of knowledge. Is the crashed ship in ALIEN a different one? Part of the fleet in PROMETHEUS perhaps? * I'm not 100% certain that the Space Jockeys are the Engineers that Shaw is looking for.

[quote]The giant sculpted head and the murals in the room -- quite striking since otherwise the base seems devoid of decoration -- suggest that it was a temple or otherwise had some emotional significance to the Engineers. Not a place one would normally use to store weapons.[/quote] To quote the great Admiral Ackbar, "it's a trap". Perhaps the "temple" is meant to lull visitors into a false sense of security. I gave my thoughts in another thread, but perhaps the "invitation" to come to LV-233 to visit "the gods" is just bait to infect us and bring the xenomorphs to Earth?

[i][quote]Let me ask you this: 1. Would you be willing to sacrifice your life to create life? 2. Would you be willing to sacrifice your life to save many more?[/quote][/i] I would add: 3. Would you be willing to sacrifice your life to prove God exists (or doesn't)?

If Prometheus fans wants to find out more in details of all these events and whats to come, then read The Lost Book of Enki by Zecharia Sitchin! I believe Ridley Scott base his science fiction on this book! The book is facinating! Has anyone read it? P.S. The library of Congress has cataloged the hardcover edition as follows: 1.Civilization,Ancient-extraterrestial influences. 2.History So I guess is not fiction!

You all very well know the predators pre-emptively attacked the mala'kak base, and would fit in very well in 'Paradise'/Prometheus 2. Earth was the one place predators and engineers have in common, and the humans had mala'k home galaxy mapped all over the place. Isnt kinda weird predators regularly practice on the humanoid mutation of the mala'kak weaponized black goo (aliens)?

@Hadley's Hope That was a very interesting image that you posted on the previous page explain about the Species Origin. But I didn't understand some images. The first line, is that a Engineer as a result ? And what would be that blue thing on the first line ? That black face would be what? A man infected with the black goo?

In the first scene a Alien space craft of a different design of that of the Engineers' looked to have given the Engineer race of Alien what seemed to be black goo. It destroyes it's DNA and completely rewrites it in its own image. Probably why the engineers were hostile to humans. Black goo effected male hosts differently than how it effected Shaw when she was pregnant with its genetic markers. Her female chromosome May have helped the black goo to mutate into the Huminoid Alien we all know and love. Where the male hosts simply had their heads burst. The side chamber of the main canister chamber looked to be of a different culture than of the main chambers. It looked to me there was a figure of an "Alien" creature in a form of a crusifix. Muslims and Chrisitans always used each others temples when they conquered one another. And why do they call David a robot when he is an android!?

sorry the bodies were piled their by someone else tried to edit my response but i still think the suriving enginner was a instigator ,.

Another thing why are the enginners were running around in their " space jockey : fly suits and better yet their helmets? Were they heading out on their mission and just before launch and then they got interruptted? also if one look at the pile of bodies, one can see in the foreground they are piled up pell mell, but in the back closer to the wall its seems the bodies are facing the wall as if they were averting their faces , as if they were panicking and actually scratching at the wall. This leads me to believe it was a nano/bioweapon ouytbreak and it had effected their behaviour. but it happened right before the moment of launch. Good point about the enginner in stasis , maybe he was a plant, secretly distributed the nanovirus which then went through the air in the complex and then put himself into stasis to isolate himself . when he got out his first reaction , confusion seeing these beings , so its get them out of the way and escape!! getting to earth was perhaps NOT his objective.

A quick theory. The Engineers are looked upon by the humans as our creators and gods. The twist? The Aliens are looked upon by the Engineers as their gods. They worship them. Their very existence is dedicated to propagating the advancement of the Alien. There are examples over and over again in human history where nature and/or animals/creatures have been worshipped as gods. Throughout the mythos of Alien, the Xenomorph are looked upon as the perfect organism i.e. pinnacle of existence, god. The one drawback to the Alien is that they require a host for their embryo. The Engineers are breed/cloned as vessels for the Aliens. Hence, the reason no obvious evolutionary advancement has occurred over the millions if not billions of years between the opening scene and where our current story has been taken to. The Engineers terraform planets. Part of the terraforming process is seeding them with their DNA to mass create compatible Alien vessels. The purpose is for the expansion of the Alien hive to expand throughout the universe. Why, 2000 years ago, were the Engineers getting ready to head to Earth? Because it was time. The earths compatible species had almost gotten to the relative advanced point of evolution to reach out to the stars and potentially become a threat. This also explains why the Engineers visited throughout the millennia to check on their advancement. The Engineers were being worshiped but what they were trying to do was herald the coming of the real gods and where those gods came from. The Aliens continued to do what they do and when an accident occurred at the distribution center for the advancement of their species, the Aliens took advantage of the situation and used the Engineers as their vessels again. A lot more theories mulling around in my cranium but thats all I will put out there for now. What do you think?

[u]The sacrifice at the beginning is the core of this movie (If you watch the movie again with this in mind, then maybe it will actually make sense). [/u] True. A lot of how you interpret the movie comes down to whether you assume that is Earth or not. There's nothing to show that it is, just our own guess, and of course that subliminal link in the following scene with the monolith that has a similar silhouette to the departing ship. [u]Let me ask you this: 1. Would you be willing to sacrifice your life to create life? 2. Would you be willing to sacrifice your life to save many more? [/u] To save life a lot of people would say yes. But to create life? We can already do that. If I kill myself before I have kids, I'm preventing the creation of my kids, their kids, etc. [u]The engineers are willing to sacrifice themselves to kickstart life on earth[/u] Apart from whether or not it's Earth, what makes you think the folks running the show sacrified THEMSELVES and not some schmuck that they consider expendable as an individual, For all we know, they could be space Nazis and that's their prisoner being sent to drink the poison. And does he even know it's poison? [u]The engineers didn't create us, and then decide to destroy us for no reason, right? We did something 2000 years ago (my guessing) to cause the engineers death on LV-223.[/u] Did you consider that perhaps they didn't create us? did you consider that whatever first visited us, we haven't seen it, and what was seen on LV 223- the Space Jockey may not be an Engineer, but the result of tampering with humans abducted on the visits to make strong, obedient slaves for dangerous work, like being sacrificed and working with that black goo, on a remote moon far from friends and family (no wife no kids... and centuries of sleep between jobs) And if we did something 2000 years ago (when we didn't have bicycles, never mind spacecraft) that caused harm on LV 223, explain why the two visits AFTER that didn't bring mass revenge? Hawaii was not settled by humans until the 4th Century and the cave drawing there was dated 7th Century. I think there was a Sumerian one from a little bit earlier also.

Vitor, I'm saying that the Engineers (i.e. the ones running the show) and Space Jockeys are not the same thing. That Engineers first came to Earth 35,000 years ago, took some humans, and with their ability to manipulate DNA, and through selective breeding, they created the big grey slaves Space Jockeys. I'm also saying that I think the black goo was slowly turning Fifield into a kind of Xenomorph and with time, it would have completed the process, if he hadn't been squashed and burned. (He certainly acted like a Xeno, crouching, leaping, and attacking.) Add the black goo to a Space Jockey and his transfomation will be a little different because of the biomechanical alterations, and that's why we see tubes and other biomechancial bits on adult Xenos.

We saw in the movie that the decaptated head was infected by the black goo. That is the only explanationto what happened to it when Shaw tried to reanimate it. There is not enough information to know for sure what happened in LV-223. I can think in three explanations: 1) The worms-alien, infected by the black goo, spread through LV-426 killing the engineers. and that was why they were running in the holograms. 2) They could benn running from one or more engineers infected by black goo. I think that is an weak option since whe saw in the first scene of the movie that engineers just die when infected by the goo. Unless the black goo in LV-426 was an diferent substance/organism tranformed and corrupted from the original. The orinal was an instrument to brings life to new planets (with the expanse of one engineer life), while the second present in LV-426 was an Weapon of mass destruction. 3) If this second black goo was diferent from the original, it coul have created a xenomorph by the infection of a engineer. There was an sculpture of a xenomorph in the mural of the ampule room. That can mean they already know the creature. Since the engineers dna is almost exactly like ours I cant imagine why the alien couldnt exist whithout human participation in its creation. The that last option, I must say that I belive the facehugger and thus the xenomorph can be created only by the infection of a female (be it human or engineer), and that was the reason why they havent any engineers women in LV-223. It was a safe measure. But if they were testing the creation of xenomorphs, they must have some females to serve as facehuggers "mothers". As we saw many different civilizations in Earth had contact with the engineers and despicted then pointing to LV-223, I guess the engineers could have been abducting humans during the centuries and taking then to use in their experiments. I read somewhere that LV-223 andLV-426 are in the same star system. So We can assume that 2000 years ago, one of the engineers ship was able to scape from LV-223 but they were already infestated by xenomorphs. The pilot died with the xenomorph borning from his chest and the ship crashes into LV-426.

[u]I read somewhere that LV-223 andLV-426 are in the same star system.[/u] If you mean constellation, then yes, one of the other six dots. But not the same soalr system. I don't think so. LV 426 is orbiting a gas giant around Zeta 2 Reticuli, 39 light years from Earth. LV 223 is orbiting a gas giant around a star about 35 light years from Earth. So that's a huge difference of 4 light years, which is the distance from our solar system to Alpha Centauri.

Just because shaw got infected through sex, doesn't mean that facehuggers need a female to be generated. If you look at a comparable life cycle, like liver fluke, it has one stage that infects and snail, then produces a few more stages, exits the snail, and then and adult version infects a cow /bull or goat, to start the cycle over again. It doesn't matter whether the cattle or goat is male of female, it will still produce in it's liver the organism that will infect the snail.

OK Fellas just to clarify things. I know most of you already know this but some don't it seems. The events of Prometheus inside the Pyramid of the Engineers and around it are on a DIFFERENT PLANET than the derelict in the first alien movie. Like many others, I have bought the book Prometheus-Art of the Film, by Mark Salisbury, foreword by Ridley Scott. One hundred percent official. And now I will quote from this book: "And with the hiring of screenwriter Damon Lindelof, the script became a standalone story, one which "shares DNA" with Alien, but is not a direct prequel, and not set on LV-426 ("That's another planet", confirms Scott).

In the ampule room it cannot be ignored that the vases are aligned in a configuration and spacing pattern very similar to that which a xenomorph queen employs when laying her eggs. Though not containing facehuggers, or any organism that falls within the known lifecycle of the xeno, the vases do contain, apparently, the catalyst for transforming other organisms into surrogates of that lifecycle architecture or imbuing organisms with similar traits. Charlie is exposed to the black goo and his sperm becomes something akin to a large facehugger with the ability to deposit xeno larva. Even the mutated worm’s natural inclination was to go down the throat of its victim Millburn. Though Charlie dies before it is known exactly how the goo would ultimately manifest, all other mutations exhibit the same generally violent disposition as a xeno, especially the antagonist engineer who is awakened from sleep. Now look closely at the xeno mural. The arms and what can be seen of the right hand are humanoid. No claws, no exoskeletal elements, but smooth, fleshy and muscular. It’s a hybrid. Perhaps not unlike the xeno who emerged in the final scene, who incidentally bared human teeth and gums. It was a hybrid whose unique characteristic was the presence of human DNA early in its lifecycle. Look closely at the antagonist Engineer. He and his shipmates (as seen in the holograms) wear suits whose visual cues are strikingly similar to xeno physiology and to the design in the mural. Or are those suits? The Gigeresque textures appear to extend beyond the supposed flight suit and are apparent on the skin of the neck and forearms of the antagonist. He is not the same as the sacrificial engineer of the prologue. He is a hybrid or in some state of hybridization. He and his kind are a splinter group of engineers and they worship or otherwise revere the xenomorph, who perhaps they encountered in their interplanetary travels. We can deduce from the Alien film that they were in possession of eggs or maybe even a queen. When that became unmanageable, they derived a process whereby the DNA is extracted to a solution which they could use in their transformation. This process became as a religion to them and the sacrament was stored in jars before an alter in a temple. They would not be the only ones in this universe to come to admire the xeno and wish to exploit its more beneficial traits (Weyland). Eventually the solution becomes unstable or uncontrollable as all incarnations of this strain do. Some die of its ill internal effects (exploded heads), others become incubators (exploded ribs), some may well have been killed by external mutations of native species (imagine a xeno amoeba). Others still may have fallen at the hand of their bretheren who had gone mad with xeno rage. Ultimately, they cannot achieve the desired effect of the hybrid process. Yet we see how the addition of the human to the chain creates a stable hybrid. Although they share the same DNA as Engineers, if humans are, for whatever reason the key to a stable hybrid, and if the Engineers arrived at this conclusion, then this would explain Earth being the Engineer crew’s destination. Not to destroy per se, but to create the ultimate species by way of introducing our race into the process. Remember, this scenario relies on the LV-223 faction as having their own motivations outside that of the greater Engineer race. So perhaps it is their point of view that we humans are theirs to do with as they will. I’ve been pondering this for a few days, and that’s the best I could do. Feedback appreciated.

Hadley, Oddly as it may seen, the two moons are in the same planetary system. It is Ridley Scott himself who said that. Take a look at this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5DayJEPzk8

I think there is no sense in create theories out of the hat. It makes more sense to focus in what is showed in the movies or what Scott said in interviews. So there is this theory of two different faction among the engineers and I saw no clear evidence of that. Ok, the engineer at the first scene is different from the one sleeping in stasys, who seens to have some kind of exoskeleton. And the ships are different too. Ok. But if it was Earth in that first scene, or even another planet but a long time ago, lets say hundred of thousand years ago, I would expect then to evolve their engineering and to create a different project of starship in this "short" period of time. I would also expect then to evolve somehow as species or to develope a biomechanical armor that binds to their bodies. So, there is a lot of different explanations more plausible than imagine a civil war that we have no clue that could have happened.

Hi, Hadley's Hope. [quote]True. A lot of how you interpret the movie comes down to whether you assume that is Earth or not. There's nothing to show that it is, just our own guess, and of course that subliminal link in the following scene with the monolith that has a similar silhouette to the departing ship.[/quote] Ridley Scott was asked this. He said the planet may or may not be Earth. It was just to show the Engineers activities throughout the galaxy. [quote]Did you consider that perhaps they didn't create us? did you consider that whatever first visited us, we haven't seen it, and what was seen on LV 223- the Space Jockey may not be an Engineer, but the result of tampering with humans abducted on the visits to make strong, obedient slaves for dangerous work, like being sacrificed and working with that black goo, on a remote moon far from friends and family (no wife no kids... and centuries of sleep between jobs)[/quote] I had thought this also, however, Damon Lindelof has said that in the Alienverse the Engineers did create Mankind and that the Space Jockeys are the Engineers. He said the movie answered that question "definitely", though I don't recall where in the movie this is proven. If it is Shaw discovering the DNA match, that is a flimsy basis - that could just mean we came from the same source. Although, "flimsy" reasoning goes hand in hand with the thinking of nearly every scientist I've ever encountered :)

Holly fu@Y, Hadley! I was intirely missing the fact that the engineer do breath outside the domus.

If Engineers could breathe oxygen, why did they wore helmets upon entering the Ampule room? I think that Engineers hermeticly sealed chamber with Ampulies by manually activating green crystal which is a sort of mechanic lock that protect compound. When our team of loony scientists broke that seal they let oxygen to the room which, triggered series of fatal events. Pyramid is protected, but from who or what? That Alien did not hatched all by himself, but our creators set him free after they found out that "bad" Engineers are planning to erase us. Pyramid is protected by mechanism against Engineers or something very human like. I am not convinced that this type of protection was designed to keep Alien from escaping the Pyramid.

lots of great theories i think the jars contained life the black ooze was an industrial accident, caused by... someone mentioned why the other ships if it was an accident. they did battle the strange atmosphere there, perhaps the planet itself made all the jars leaky due to some electrical storm or something. anyone else notice... ground worms morphed into snakes humans morph into giant squid engineer + squid morphed into xenomorph one might say, there is more human to that xenomorph than meets the eye!

This is my theory over the back story of what happened on LV-223, this comes from reading the info posted on this site and some assumptions. The Engineer Monks vs. Engineer Warriors All engineers were part of a peaceful society. A "religious" group of engineer monks "seeded" life through out the universe/galaxies through self-sacrifice and the use of the black goo (aka the beginning scene triggers life) . The engineer monks had exclusive control of the black goo for good purposes. They had learned to extract it from the domestication of the xenomorphs (Xeno DNA). The engineer monks lived in temples all across the universe like LV-223. The engineer monks monitored the development of the human race, and showed the humans where their temples were located (aka paintings). At some point, another empire arose from the Engineer society, one that was evil and bent on destruction of the universe. This warrior faction wanted and needed the power of the black goo for evil purposes. They hunted and sacked all engineer monk temples. They chose to use the black goo for bio-weapons for destruction and bio-technology upgrades (aka the precious suit). As for LV-223, this was a temple that was attacked by a group of warrior engineers that were looking for the black goo. The first holograms activated by David show a groups of engineers in suits running toward the ampule room which is being locked down, hence why one engineer was beheaded. A likely scenario, is that the engineer monks at the temple fought back or may have performed some sort of self-sacrifice by unleashing the black goo on their attackers (a viral outbreak). This self-sacrifice by monks left the ampule room ripe with life (aka the earthworms). And it also resulted in the death of many warrior engineers (aka the pile of engineers in suits). Although the warriors were successful in overtaking the temple, only a few remained. They stocked piled their weapons and left the ampule room as a trap. The ampule room looks to have been a booby trap for anyone who tinkered into the temple. The remaining warrior engineers began preparations to leave for earth, but before take-off, an undetected black goo infection kills all but one engineer warrior who is already in a hyper-sleep chamber. Hence, the ship never takes off for earth. The lone engineer in cryo-sleep aboard the juggernaut is the sole survivor of the ordeal, when he is awakened he is naturally surprised to see the humans but then remembers his mission of destruction. Making more assumptions: it's possible that engineer monks have been wiped out or that there some sort of truce between the monk and warrior factions of the Engineer society.

Shane C, I agree with most of what you say, I don't see where you get the 'faction' element, however. I think, the layout of pillars in the room, is important, with the giant stone head in a central position. [img]http://www.houriganwebworks.com/images/Urns.png[/img] Is your faction idea based on the assumption that they are bringing this to Earth, rather than bringing humans to the chamber? It's never explained why all those urns are in the ship. Are they bringing them from where ever they are made, to restock the facility in LV 223, or are they meant to be deployed on their living cargo? They don't seem to be arranged in a way suitable for aerial dispersal, like bomb racks in a bomb bay.

You know, I have been hearing some things about the Engineers, being the divided into rival factions and perhaps a civil war was going on in the past. One the one hand I agree there isn't much evidence to support this. But when you think about it. With a possible sequel in mind. Imagine all Engineers are evil, and they all operate with the same single minded purpose. How would this work? Shaw and David end up on the Engineer Planet, there will be nothing but dangerous bio weapons and evil Engineers. How can they find answers in a world like that, or even survive? It would be a run-scared, action movie. Nothing like the first one. There has to be some kind of mediator between them and the Engineers, either Engineers who have good intentions, or yet a different race of aliens.