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Ultimate Plot holes/questions and answers debate thread

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Engineering

MemberOvomorphJun-14-2012 12:28 PM
********THIS THREAD IS A WORK IN PROGRESS******** These are truncated interpretations of forum members "plot holes" or unaswered questions along with answers and explainations from various members... 1)[u]Is sacrificing one of their kind really the best way they have to create life on earth in the beginning of the film?[/u] 2)[u]Why would Weyland spend so much money to fund a mission with no hard evidence that Shaw and Holloway's theories are correct?[/u] [b]He's a multi-quadrillionaire or mega-rich for that matter. Money is no object and immortality is his only desire.[/b] 3)[u]Why is Shaw portrayed as a Christian believer yet she forms a hypothesis that contradicts Christian beliefs?[/u] [b]In the film someone says that her beliefs are incorrect because the Engineers created humans. She answers with "Yes, but who made them?" She has her own beliefs that are obviously based in Christianity but every Christian does not believe or worship in the same way.[/b] 4)[u]Why was Weyland playing like he was dead and hiding in cryo besides plot reasons?[/u] [b]He was in cryo to preserve the short time he had to live. As far as why he hid it from the crew perhaps he's an eccentric multi-quadrillionaire who likes to mess with people's heads. Or, if the comany and share holders believe he's dead he could be doing it for some business reasons.[/b] 5)[u]Why is Vickers being Weyland's daughter kept a secret?[/u] [b]Vickers being Weyland's daughter is kept secret from the audience. Never in the film does it suggest that this fact is kept from the crew. She has a different last name but that doesn't mean that the last name was made up. Maybe a married name or she kept her mother's last name.[/b] 6)[u]Why does Vickers even go on the mission when it's against her best intrest in regards to taking over Weyland Industries? It's not in her best intrest if other "sharks" are on earth plotting to take over the company while she's on the mission.[/u] [b]For one Weyland is not dead so the company is still his. Also, Vickers obviously has daddy issues. Her father prefers a replicant to her. Her father is dying. She expresses that in her opinion the mission is a joke and will not be successful therefore she believes her father is going to die on the mission. She looks at the mission as her last chance to redeem herself or win her father's love away from David.[/b] 7)[u]Why does Weyland take the voyage instead of sending a probe and funding further medical research?[/u] [b]What medical research is going to uncover immortality?[/b] 8)[u]Why does Weyland think he can appreciate or understand immortality or the Engineers reasoning and capabilities when he himself states that his creatioin, David, cannot appreciate the immortality he has been given because he has no soul?[/u] [b]Again, he's an eccentric, multi-quadrillionaire. He created another lifeform. He also obviously thinks he is on equal footing with the gods or Engineers. He is incredibly self rightious. And, unlike David, he has a soul.[/b] 9)[u]Why does the crew rush into the temple instead of waiting for the pups to finish mapping?[/u] [b]They never go into any area of the pyramid that has not been mapped.[/b] 10)[u]Why would the crew remove their helmets when they admit that, though breathable, it could still be dangerous?[/u] [b]Once they find out it's breathable they never say anything about a chance of it still being dangerous. In fact, someone states that the air is, in fact, cleaner than earth's air.[/b] 11)[u]Why does David shine a flashlight at a hologram?[/u] [b]He's in a very dark place and has a flashlight in his hand. When most people are in the dark and hear or see something moving they usually will shine said flashlight in that direction.[/b] 12)[u]How does Fifield and Milburn get lost when Fifield is in charge of the pups?[/u] [b]The pup readout was loading to the display on the ship, Fifield had a piece of the equipment that showed them the readout however when he and Millburn decided to leave rather near their point of entry he had to leave the equipment with the crew who were staying so they could continue to find their way. Fifield and Millburn being men both think they can find their own way and don't bother contacting Janek for directions. Then the storm hits knocking out contact.[/b] 13)[u]Why are geologist Fifield and biologist Millburn not interested in the uber-important descoveries that the team make in the pyramid?[/u] [b]It's possible that they are too frightened to care about their careers at that point. Or better yet they are interested but are smart enough to hang back until the pyramid is found to be safe and without threat.[/b] 14)[u]Why is Millburn stupid enough to try to pet the hammerpeede?[/u] [b]Perhaps his inquisitive, biologist nature that was talked about being absent in question #36 has finally got the better of him. Also, Fifield had just showed him that he had marajuana in his resperator. This could explain why Fifield is super paranoid as well as why Millburn wants to pet the hammerpeede. Fifield is paranoid because he's stoned and Millburn is trying to show off in order to impress Fifield so he'll share the marajuana.[/b] 15)[u]How is human dna and engineer dna a match yet there are differences between them?[/u] 16)[u]Why doesn't the crew ask David to translate Engineer writing when they find out there's a contagion loose?[/u] [b]When they find out Holloway's infected is the first sign of a contagion. At this point they are in the pyramid and find Millburn's body and see that Fifield is missing. They also see the hammerpeede scuttle off which scares them as well. The sh*t has hit the fan at this point.They don't think about or have time to ask David to translate anything as they are trying to hurry and get to the Prometheus to help Holloway. Besides, David is off on his own mission at the orrey in the Juggernaut.[/b] 17)[u]Why does Janek go to have sex with Vickers?[/u] [b]Seriously??? All joking aside, Janek is the captain of the ship. He's not responsible for anything scientific which is what the mapping of the pyramid is. Also, at this point he has told Fifield and Millburn to hunker down and not bugger each other and all is quiet. Finally, at this point, there has been no threat. Just what he believes to be glitches with the pups.[/b] 18)[u]Why does nobody get angry at Janek for dereliction of duty?[/u] [b]See above answer.[/b] 19)[u]Why does David infect Holloway for no reason?[/u] [b]Before David infects Holloway he has a conversation with Weyland who is in cryo. When David leaves he comes upon Vickers lurking in the corridors. She askes David what Weyland said. "He said to try harder" he tells her. Weyland wants to find out what the "black goo" is capable of without being the guinea pig. Could it make him immortal? Could it make him morph into an alien? Could it give him the runs? He tells David to infect someone. David picks the person he likes the least of the crew. [/b] 20)[u]Why does infected Holloway act ok and return to the temple putting his girlfriend and crew in danger?[/u] [b]Holloway has no idea he's infected. He dosn't know what David did. All that happened before they left for the pyramid was what he saw in his eye in the mirror. He could have been thinking he was seeing things due to cryo or space travel or whatever. He didn't display any pain until they were in the ampule room and at that point he asked Shaw if what was going on was bad.[/b] 21)[u]How does David know what 3 months pregnant looks like in terms of an alien?[/u] [b]David tells Shaw she's 3 months pregnant BEFORE he tells her it's not human. He's telling her she's 3 months pregnant in terms of the size of a human fetus at 3 months. He knows they haven't been there for 3 months and that the alien fetus couldn't be that old as they hadn't been there 3 months.[/b] 22)[u]Why does David put Shaw to sleep when she asks him to take the alien fetus out?[/u] [b]First, putting Shaw to sleep and in cryo is the most rational actions he could take as the med-pod only works on males and they don't have the personel to do the procedure.[/b] 23)[u]Why does Shaw not mention David's behavior to anyone after the c-section?[/u] [b]Because his behavior was totally rational.[/b] 24)[u]Why is nobody, especially David,curious about what happened to Shaw and her baby after the c-section?[/u] [b]David trumped Shaw's pregnancy with the surviving Engineer. After he was found, anything else was secondary - which includes Shaw's baby. And David was the only one who SAW the fetus. I doubt he said much, of if he did, he was deliberately vague. Weyland's only concern was meeting his "maker", and since Shaw was obviously alive and coherent, why would Weyland even care? He was on borrowed time, only days to live - if that. He's not going to give a crap about what Shaw was up to.[/b] 25)[u]Why does Janek assume that LV-233 is an "experimental weapons depot" located far away from the Engineer's home world?[/u] [b]Janek explains this himself to Shaw in the film.[/b] 26)[u]If LV-233 is in fact an "experimental weapons depot" why would the Engineers give humans a map to it?[/u] 27)[u]Why is the ships control system started by a flute and controlled with buttons instead of being contolled by a flute OR buttons exclusively?[/u] [b]Do cars start up when you push the gas pedal or stereo buttons? No. They start with keys. The flute is the key the Engineers chose.[/b] 28)[u]Why does the awakened Engineer attack instead of finding out what's going on?[/u] [b]He has just been awakened early from a long sleep by inferior beings who he and his kind created and now want to destroy. These inferior beings have somehow found them and the rest of his beings on the ship are dead. He sees them somewhat of a threat. He has no idea what they know or what they're capable of. Not physically, he knows he can handle them physically. He's worried about what they know about the Juggernauts on the planet and their plan to destroy mankind.[/b] 29)[u]Why do Janek's co-pilots offer up their lives so readily?[/u] [b]First ands foremost the fact that the lifeboat can only sustain life for 2 years means they are going to die before anyone can rescue them anyway. Also, Janek seems to be a boss that they definitely look up to and they obviously respect him to the utmost. Plus, how often do you get a chance to save the entire planet instead of running like a coward?[/b] 30)[u]Why doesn't Vickers run sideways to avoid crash?[/u] 31)[u]Why does the Juggernaut fall straight down during the crash instead of at an angle?[/u] 32)[u]How does a rock hold the crashing Juggernaut up, saving Shaw's life?[/u] [b]If you look you can see that the part of the Juggernaut that lands where Shaw is is sloped inward which means the part of the ship that hit the rock was also lower to the ground when the ship hits. If the ship is sitting flat on flat ground that part of the ship would not be touching the ground.[/b] 33)[u]Why does the Engineer go after Shaw with bare hands when there are more Juggernauts?[/u] [b]See question #28.[/b] 34)[u]How does Shaw's baby grow so big in a confined area with no food source?[/u] [b]The trilobite fetus grew at an alarming rate while inside with what would seem to be little nutrition from Shaw as from the time she had intercourse and was impregnated to the time of the c-section she had not eaten anything. The trilobite just continues this trend after the c-section. Or perhaps the trilobite ate some of the crew members we didn't see much of.[/b] 35)[u]Why does Shaw head for the Engineer's home when she knows they want to destroy humans?[/u] [b]To get answers. She states this at the end of the film. She doesn't care the cost. In her mind she will get answers from the Engineers or die and meet her maker and get answers that way.[/b] 36)[u]How did Shaw manage to acomplish all the feats of strength and daring after a very painful c-section?[/u] [b]Shaw gives herself painkilling shots during the c-section as well as after. The combination of future surgical tools and techniques, the ability of future drugs to kill pain as well as good ol' adrenaline could have easily helped her along.[/b] 37)[u]How did the Trilobite survive the sterilization process?[/u] [b]The Trilobite does have some human DNA and perhaps the Pauling Med-pod's sterilization process is not calibrated for human/alien hybrid parasite trilobite.[/b] 38)[u]Why is the Prometheus no equipped with weapons to blow the Juggernaut up instead of having to fly into it?[/u] [b]Scientific expedition. Not an attack ship.[/b]
[IMG]http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q507/Engineering211/sig2.jpg[/IMG]
363 Replies

Spartacus

MemberOvomorphJun-29-2012 5:23 PM
@geopap thinking deeply about your post yes I can imagine how heavy it is.... what he did is so heavy but I believe completely Weylands' doing, the company programmed him that way and it was just like Jessica Rabbit was drawn sexy ! {Kathleen Turner did her voice by the way another "hottie" that could act in her day} There was no way he was doing anything but everything to comply with his programming

Gavin

MemberTrilobiteJun-29-2012 5:27 PM
LOL, Sparky I think you've officially lost it - why not post that theory in a new thread... 2 Engineers... You do remember she was warned by David!

Engineering

MemberOvomorphJun-29-2012 5:27 PM
I am sooo sick of typing long a$$ posts only to click add reply and see that I've been logged out, waisting a pretty large amount of time and thoughts. @geopap...Love the idea that David was there before. Does explain quite a bit. Especially his touchy, touchy fixation! [img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5m69cPRXv1qzm5jto1_400.gif[/img]
[IMG]http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q507/Engineering211/sig2.jpg[/IMG]

Gavin

MemberTrilobiteJun-29-2012 5:30 PM
@ Engineering - use either two tabs, or create the text in a notepad

Spartacus

MemberOvomorphJun-29-2012 5:34 PM
man I feel your pain and have learned the hard way to always copy it before i do anything else.

Engineering

MemberOvomorphJun-29-2012 5:52 PM
Yep, don't always remember to copy the text or log back in on another tab. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
[IMG]http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q507/Engineering211/sig2.jpg[/IMG]

Demeisen

MemberOvomorphJun-29-2012 7:23 PM
1. My hypothesis is that the humanoid aliens we see are not the true creators, they are just a subservient species; the heavy lifters, the slaves if you will. Suicide is not something that would occur to a sentient; in this case especially when they'd be able to grow plenty of biological material in a lab (humanity already can). This explains the weirdness of the opening scene, the alien is a moronic serf and not a genius individual. It also explains the stupid one mindedness of the alien that is awoken from the pod. He went to sleep with the mission of destroying humanity, so he wakes up with it because no new instructions have been given. To a thinking individual the question of how iron age humans are on his moon might occur, which would likely engender a re-evaluation of the situation.

Demeisen

MemberOvomorphJun-29-2012 7:41 PM
26. When asked where you come from, you tell them a place. When talking to a potential enemy, you don't tell them where your home is; you tell them where your scary military outpost is and say that is your home. 35. Revenge, absolutely revenge. Answers were no way on her agenda at the end of the film. She knows the black goop kills the aliens and she has a ship full of the stuff, she is going to kill them.

R&D Engineer

MemberOvomorphJun-30-2012 2:39 AM
All theories of Engineers being killed by David-type robots are completely wrong for 2 reasons: 1. The decapitated Engineer has been dead for 2000 years so the events on LV-223 have happened long before the mankind discovered electricity, let alone interstellar travel and A.I. robots; 2. I have hard times buying the theory that human technology can beat and destroy the Engineers. Not completely impossible for a David to sneak and unleash some creatures who then kill the Engineers (well, most of them) but highly unlikely.

geopap

MemberOvomorphJun-30-2012 4:29 AM
@R&D Engineer If my life span is 4-10 thousand years, then the fact that my suit is 2000 years old and I am found dead doesn't mean that I died 2000 years ago. Remember also that the Engineers had the ability to travel throughout the universe from galaxies to galaxies which demands high speed, from relativity theory we know that the faster you travel the slower the time passes by. So we have three great factors that might explain the huge life span of the Engineers 1. Their ability to travel with great velocity, which decelerates time. 2. The unknown stasis technology they used. 3. Despite of our 100% DNA match, judging from the extended knowledge in biology they had, the Engineers probably might had invented anti-oxidants and medicines or pure nutrition methods that didn't pass from the belly or maybe unknown techniques that helped them live longer. Remember in the Bible people who lived for thousands years like Methuselah?
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.

geopap

MemberOvomorphJun-30-2012 5:16 AM
@Engineering [quote]@geopap...Love the idea that David was there before. Does explain quite a bit. Especially his touchy, touchy fixation! [/quote] Yes, he might have a memory of thousands of human brains connected, might have been the smartest A.I. on Earth, but still this is applicable only to human technology, the quickness with which he solves the puzzles is astonishing. Solving the mysteries of an unknown alien technology at that speed without taking into consideration the mysteries and dangers that lie behind the doors, is almost impossible without foreknowledge. Even the strongest computational machine with ability to remember and compute billions of digits of π, can do that at so little time as David + to speculate on the dangers of such actions.
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.

Gavin

MemberTrilobiteJun-30-2012 5:55 AM
I answered your question in a PM sparky - Last weekend!

Spartacus

MemberOvomorphJun-30-2012 5:58 AM
Never got it or I would not be asking

Spartacus

MemberOvomorphJun-30-2012 5:51 AM
Snorky I thought about this last night and realized I was wrong because David8 addresses the thing as "HIM" and he would not have said it that way if it had been another one and not the one that crashed, he would have said "another one is coming for you", but he said, "he's coming for you" meaning the same one that tossed her. Also you still have not answered my question....When and how did you see this film?

R&D Engineer

MemberOvomorphJun-30-2012 9:36 AM
@ geopap In the movie it clearly stated that the decapitated Engineer has been dead for 2000 years (not his bionic suit). So there is no way that a David was involved in his death. The space travel and time deceleration at relativistic speeds are absolutely irrelevant in this context since the dead body has hardly travelled. Not to mention even if it had travelled, the 2000 years of its "local" time being dead would beam millions of years in Earth time. So this makes a David killing the Engineers even more unlikely. The stasis is also completely irrelevant here, too.

geopap

MemberOvomorphJun-30-2012 1:41 PM
@R&D Engineer This "dead" for 2 thousand years is computed with respect to Earthly standards of time. So I still think that there might be a little chance that a previous "David" model had visited this planet before. Or the Weyland Co. might have discovered another ship in an another planetary system closer to Earth and studied it's interior. [quote]The stasis is also completely irrelevant....[/quote] I don't think it is irrelevant since we are let to know little about their technology. Remember what David told about their technology when he entered the "pilot-stasis" room?
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.

R&D Engineer

MemberOvomorphJun-30-2012 4:23 PM
@geopap Yes, and according to this computation a David must have killed this Engineer 2000 years ago (Earth time). Which is absurd since 2000 years ago on Earth there were no Davids. Otherwise I agree that potentially Weyland could have sent a bunch of robots on LV-223 or has anyway already had experience with the Engineers but this must have happened several years prior to the events in the movie, not 2000 years prior to it. But even the first assumption is way too far fetched IMO.

vulkus

MemberOvomorphJul-01-2012 3:06 AM
Hi everyone, I've been doing a bit of lurking and reading and now think it is time to post my own answers to some questions and add extra bits to others. [b]1)Is sacrificing one of their kind really the best way they have to create life on earth in the beginning of the film?[/b] As most have said we are assuming it is Earth. Also we are not aware of the chronological order of that first scene. Personally I don't think they are 'creating' life perse, but rather accelerating the pre-existing biology. Whatever life forms are created, they must in some way be similar to themselves on a molecular level; For what purpose we do not know. So the best way in IMHO would be to seed a protoplasmic world. [b]2)Why would Weyland spend so much money to fund a mission with no hard evidence that Shaw and Holloway's theories are correct?[/b] [i]He's a multi-quadrillionaire or mega-rich for that matter. Money is no object and immortality is his only desire.[/i] Weyland is an entrepreneurial innovator and adventurer. When he goes to meet his maker he wants to do it in person because he can. [b]3)Why is Shaw portrayed as a Christian believer yet she forms a hypothesis that contradicts Christian beliefs?[/b] Shaw is never portrayed as a Christian believer; her father is portrayed as such. She wears a cross because it belonged to her father. When you see David watching her dreams, you see a young Shaw asking questions of her father, always seeking answers to the unknown. It is speculative to assume she is a Christian. [b]4)Why was Weyland playing like he was dead and hiding in cryo besides plot reasons?[/b] [i]He was in cryo to preserve the short time he had to live. As far as why he hid it from the crew perhaps he's an eccentric multi-quadrillionaire who likes to mess with people's heads. Or, if the company and shareholders believe he's dead he could be doing it for some business reasons.[/i] That and it may well raise the suspicions of the military, who would undoubtedly go looking for a super weapon. 5) Answered sufficiently. 6) Answered sufficiently. [b]7)Why does Weyland take the voyage instead of sending a probe and funding further medical research?[/b] Weyland is both old and greedy. He wants immortality above all else, as stated previously he wants to meet his maker face to face. 8) Answered sufficiently. [b]9)Why does the crew rush into the temple instead of waiting for the pups to finish mapping?[/b] Ever been on holidays with kids? They are an amateur scientific team, who think aliens are all fuzzy and warm. I mean they created us didn't they? 10) Answered 11) Answered 12) Answered 13)[b] 13)Why are geologist Fifield and biologist Millburn not interested in the uber-important discoveries that the team make in the pyramid?[/b] If you remember the scene in the galley, Millburn goes to the person he believes is the roughest, toughest and most seasoned person and attempts to befriend him. Millburn is obviously a noob and doesn’t want to be caught out. Millburn succumbs to fear, he is a biologist and not a xenobiologist. This is both outside his realm of experience and beyond his fight or flight threshold. Fifield is a merc, and as he states he is only in it for the money. He doesn’t care what he finds so long as he is paid. That and one can assume that he has been on so many missions that he is mentally unstable and combined with his pot addiction suggests, he can no longer function rationally. [b] 14) Why is Millburn stupid enough to try to pet the hammerpede?[/b] a) He doesn’t know it is a Hammerpede. b) When he initially sees it, it does look kind of cute and impish. C) When its ‘wings’ unfurl it still doesn’t appear dangerous just threatened. Millburn is attempting to coo and reassure the creature he means it no harm. d) It bares its fangs and hisses, stupidity overtakes his sense of personal security and it all goes to pot from there. [b]15)How is human dna and engineer dna a match yet there are differences between them?[/b] We have no idea what type of match they were testing for. Was it paternal, maternal, and genealogical? Who knows? 16-21) Answered [b]22)Why does David put Shaw to sleep when she asks him to take the alien foetus out?[/b] Because David is working towards an alternate agenda, we don’t know what David’s sub routines are. We don’t know if his maker subscribes to the Law of Robotics: 1.A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. Obviously David does not care for this Law, due to the fact that he allows the foetus to remain inside Shaw and also allows a suitable time frame to pass where the foetus would have further developed. 2.A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. Again David flagrantly disobeys this law, so human life is inconsequential to him, only the end result is of consequence. 3.A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws. David, being a synthetic has no fear of death or destruction. It is also obvious that David does not follow this law either, because when the Engineer rips his head off he does not defend his own existence. The Engineers for would not be treated as human beings for the purpose of the 3rd law. Therefore, David not only has his own agenda but also has no interest in whether Shaw lives or dies, so long as the experiment results in a successful conclusion, and putting Shaw in cryo sleep would allow this. [b]23)Why does Shaw not mention David's behaviour to anyone after the C-section?[/b] David injected her with a sedative; her only motivation is foetal termination. We do not know what David said to the other two. Shaw is concerned only with self-preservation. When she enters the room with Weyland, he couldn’t care less about her. He is willing to sacrifice anyone and everyone to achieve his goal of immortality. 24-5) Answered [b]26)If LV-233 is in fact an "experimental weapons depot" why would the Engineers give humans a map to it?[/b] Is it a star map, 6 planetoids and some big guy pointing skyward? Hardly a map more like mythology; our ancestors pointing towards the heavens saying we come from here. Aka the stars, nothing in the pictures suggests anything remotely connected to a star map. Suggesting that it does is at best conjecture. 27) Answered [b]28)Why does the awakened Engineer attack instead of finding out what's going on?[/b] [I]He has just been awakened early from a long sleep by inferior beings that he and his kind created and now want to destroy. These inferior beings have somehow found them and the rest of his beings on the ship are dead. He sees them somewhat of a threat. He has no idea what they know or what they're capable of. Not physically, he knows he can handle them physically. He's worried about what they know about the Juggernauts on the planet and their plan to destroy mankind.[/I] The Engineers creations turn up with an advanced synthetic, who is super intelligent and will live forever, have him ask him for more life behalf of something that is neither super intelligent nor long lived. It reminds me of the scene from Oliver Twist, where Oliver asks the master for more gruel, please Sir, can I have some more. The master goes off in a tirade, not surprisingly. However the Engineer really doesn’t get a chance to find out what is going on. He just comes out of stasis for an indeterminable time frame. We only surmise it is 2k years because that was the carbon dating of the dead guys. However he could have been asleep for far longer than this. So he awakens is groggy, and then gets confronted by an alien, speaking presumably his language or the language of his superiors. Asking for more life; it is like pester power from children asking for everything when parents go shopping. 29) Answered [b]30)Why doesn't Vickers run sideways to avoid crash?[/b] a) She is scared sh*tless and can’t think straight. b) She believes she can outrun the ship. c) She is a Synthetic, Vikkers 1 which would be equivalent to a David 9. With the exception that she has more emotions built in. For example when she torches Shaw’s love interest she expresses remorse or guilt. When the ship does come down on her we assume she is crushed but we do not see it, all we here is No, No, No!. [b]31)Why does the Juggernaut fall straight down during the crash instead of at an angle?[/b] a) Terrain. b) Intentional design by the Engineer ship wrights. In case of emergency landing the ship rights itself, much like the US Coast guard ship that rights itself in bad weather. [b]32)How does a rock hold the crashing Juggernaut up, saving Shaw's life?[/b] The same way that they use rubber chocks to stop a Jumbo jet from rolling forward. [b]33)Why does the Engineer go after Shaw with bare hands when there are more Juggernauts?[/b] He wants to get some! He is obviously male; his suit has a cod piece. If he were female or androgynous he wouldn’t require this. Or she has royally p*ssed him off to the extent that the time for talking is over and now he wants to ring her neck. 34) Answered [b]35)Why does Shaw head for the Engineer's home when she knows they want to destroy humans?[/b] She doesn’t ‘know’ they want to destroy humans. All we have to base this on is the cryptic David, and his quote: Sometimes you need to destroy in order to create. David wants her to head back to Earth, because of his side agenda. Shaw wants to head to the Homeworld because of her fear and need for understanding. We do not know the effects of cryogenic stasis upon the human mind. It is plausible to suggest that due to the fact that the alien race she suspected existed actually existed. That combined with a whole lot of death and destruction and hidden agendas, she is suffering from extreme paranoia and neurosis. 36-8) Answered.

Hadley's Hope

MemberOvomorphJul-01-2012 4:11 AM
EDIT - I just realised that the comment I was responding to here was not at the bottom of the last page, but many pages back. Although I'm not sure it was addressed, I'll take this down if I or someone else gave a good answer previously. ---------------------------------- [u]- vickers is unfriendly without a reason, no leader would be that way. no authority by nature, wrong actress for that role if you ask me [/u] You've missed a bit part of the plot there, simply by assumption. Who told you that Vickers had any authority? Vickers did. This is not a corporate mission, it's a personal mission for her father, and that makes it family business for Vickers, so her position in the company doesn't give her any rank. She's there for family stuff. Her father said Shaw and Holloway are in charge. He didn't even know if Vickers would be there. The Captain also has authority by virture of his appointment to run the ship. Vickers has none, and tries to assert it, which is why she comes off unfriendly, she's trying to sell something that nobody buys. Tries to be all bossy to Janek when she sees he's putting upa tree rather than attending to the ship... He's not the least bit flustered. Tells Janek that breifing starts in 15 mins. He says he hasn't had breakfast. Doesn't go. Tells Shaw and Holloway not do do anything unless she gives the go ahead (this is not exactly Harvey Keitel teling Travolta and Samuel L Jackson not to do shit unless he does it first) and they bring bag a head in a bag. Does she punish them? No. She's instead terrifed about the idea of this thing, and she's the one to say 'confine it' when it starts to bubble. When she tells the crew not to open the cargo door to let in Holloway, they completely ignore her, Janek and everybody else ignore her instructions about quarantine, and she has to use a flamethrower to enforce quarantine. (and if this is Vickers being a jerk,,, well Ripley didn't want to let Kane into the Nostromo either... and they were both correct). Even in family matters, the android is trusted with information by her father that she is not privy to. She has to threaten David just to get a two word answer about what her Father said. He later cuts off the video feed to her when he opens the door to the Juggernaut bridge. Everything tells you that despite her dialogue, Vickers has no authority on the ship, except where she uses force or ultimatums (and anyone can do that if they got a flamethrower, or can throw the switch for a cargo door to close.) In ways Shaw shows more concern for the crew than Janek does, but her over-riding concern is for her own safety, and she is terrified of space and space travel. 1. she never goes off the ship on any trips to the dome, she doesn't get her boots dirty until that escape pod opens. Even when she toasts Holloway, she's standing on the ramp and that's the closest she got to voluntarily walking off. One of her first questions is whether anyone died in stasis. So she feared for herself and the crew. Wasn't it Vickers who told them not to take off their helmets? (they might have stayed alive if they'd listened, the air, heat and moisture seems to have activated the goo.) When she comes to the bridge to look at the map... the captain is paying no attention. And his concern was that M & F don't bugger each other in the night. When the storm first blows up, Janek tells the away team to hustle back, and they away team is delaying their return its Vickers who insists that they quit taking more time, and get back. This is also motivated by her own fear of anything happening to the ship, or getting on the ship, but she does tell them she hopes the make it back in 15 minutes. Seeing how ferocious the storm was. She was right to insist that they quit messing around and go. Apart from that and Holloway, she is rather hands off, she asks questions more than gives orders. She likes to know what's going on. E.g asks what the mural is changing into, (notice Janek isn't the slight bit interested in any of this) Your Vickers plot hole (which in fact was just a dislike) just evaporated.

Nugg

MemberOvomorphJul-01-2012 8:37 AM
26)If LV-233 is in fact an "experimental weapons depot" why would the Engineers give humans a map to it? My take on it is this: I think the motivation and agenda of the Engineers encountered by the crew of the Prometheus is completely different to that of the Engineers who were seeding humanoid life across the galaxy many tens of thousands of years ago (much more?). The Engineers we see in the movie are behaving like a genocidal doomsday cult, with the religious shrine - the huge head and the xenomorph mural. They are hell bent on spreading the xenomorph they've created across the galaxy, to all the worlds they seeded in the distant past. Unfortunately for them their creation got loose and slaughtered them all before they could take off. But that is "now" in the movie, back in the distant past they were spreading life, not destroying it. So the cave paintings indicating the location of LV-226 were made at a time when it wasn't an "experimental weapons depot", when the Engineers did in fact want their "children" to one day come and visit them. But over the long, long time since then, things have changed. I see a couple of possibilities: 1. The Engineers race has turned genocidal, perhaps they're dying out and want to take the rest of the galaxy with them, perhaps a new religeous mania has spread across their civilisation, or across half their civlilisation and they're at war. 2. The Engineers encountered by the Prometheus are a small doomsday cult and the rest of the Engineer species is either unaware of their actions or is unable to stop them. The cult are making use of a long abandoned and forgotten facility on Lv-226, which was once intended as a meeting point for their child races. edit: I'm leaning towards option 3, the Engineers the Prometheus meets are a small doomsday cult dedicated to wiping out all humanoid life. They created the xenomorph for this purpose and where in the middle of unleashing it across all the Engineer and child worlds, but they messed up and one got loose and slaughtered them before they could complete the job. This would also explain why the Engineers stopped visiting earth regularly.

Hadley's Hope

MemberOvomorphJul-01-2012 10:40 AM
Nugg, I'm curious as to whether you ever considered option 4. They did not give anyone a map inviting them to LV 223. Go read the script for the film, and spot where Holloway very quickly abandons scientific reasoning in favour of hunches and religious prejudice in his interpretation of the starmap. Each of those six dots are stars, none of them are planets or moons, so LV 223 is not actually indicated. It seems that in looking for Heaven he assumed it would be around the most ideal star, so he eliminates the other 5 and THEN looks for a suitable planet or moon to aim for. No mention of looking at all the planets in each system, and checking how many are adequate for life... he zeros in on an ideal. Heaven is ideal, real life is not. And for a race that travels the galaxy the odds that they would have an outpost in nearby solar systems should occur to him, especially as he is doing this briefing on Weylands ship. Weyland Corp at this stage has 80 odd colonies in different solar systems. And yet Holloway, assumes that finding 5 domes on a poisonous lifeless rock, confirms that he's knocking on the pearly gates... well, in a figurative sense he will soon "meet his maker". Also, if you look at the Scottish cave drawing, the figure depicted seems to point at the central star in the star map. I would argue that this does not seem to be the one that they went to, and Holloway makes no mention of considering this factor, even to discount it. I'm just wondering. Did you consider this at all? And if you did, what made you reject this option?

Spartacus

MemberOvomorphJul-01-2012 11:03 AM
It was miss interpreted as a Map & an Invitation as Shaw so Happily states at the end of the film to Weyland's Face, what I think it really was, was a warning and have been laughed at for saying so for almost 2 years now.

Nugg

MemberOvomorphJul-01-2012 12:33 PM
Hadley, I haven't read the script, so I'm only going off what I remember from the movie: If I remember right, Holloway said that only one constellation/group of stars seen from earth matched this pattern, and around those six stars there was only one planet or moon capable of supporting life. I take this to be the indication of LV-223. The reason I think it must have been a map or instructions is that Holloway stated that the same pattern was found in 8 or 10 different cultures with absolutely no connection to each other. The only explanation is that the Engineers repeatedly visited different ancient cultures to deliver this knowledge. The only explanation for that is the expectation that one day humans would make their own way there, why else would they repeatedly visit to deliver this pattern? The only reason they ended up at one of those six stars compared to any of the other thousand billion in the galaxy is because of the drawings. I'll give you they glossed over this section pretty quickly and it's quite a stretch that those ancient carvers got them star-chart accurate. It also begs the question why not just come back again when humans are closer to spaceflight... frankly I think the answers to these points is that this bit of the plot wasn't completely thought through but sounded awe-inspiring, wondrous and mysterious when they wrote it.

Hadley's Hope

MemberOvomorphJul-01-2012 1:20 PM
[u]If I remember right, Holloway said that only one constellation/group of stars seen from earth matched this pattern, and around those six stars there was only one planet or moon capable of supporting life. I take this to be the indication of LV-223. [/u] Well if you're going by memory it's easy to miss, because he goes through it quickly. If it were a book, more people would catch it. He eliminates 5 of the stars and then says there one moon around the SIXTH that is capable of supporting life. [u]The reason I think it must have been a map or instructions is that Holloway stated that the same pattern was found in 8 or 10 different cultures with absolutely no connection to each other. The only explanation is that the Engineers repeatedly visited different ancient cultures to deliver this knowledge. The only explanation for that is the expectation that one day humans would make their own way there, why else would they repeatedly visit to deliver this pattern?[/u] but what if it's not an invitation to future generations, but actually a recollection by a member of a tribe of the map shown to them by visiting "Engineers/space Jockeys" inviting THEM to go, not us in the future. It would make sense that they brought some of them back on their ship surely. Why else did they build that elaborate system to generate breathable air, and a covered entrance from the ship to the urn chamber that doesn't go through the outside air? It's not for the Space Jockey's benefit. We see that guy running around outside with no mask, no helmet, in air that would kill any of us. [/my2cents]

Nugg

MemberOvomorphJul-01-2012 1:46 PM
[u]but what if it's not an invitation to future generations, but actually a recollection by a member of a tribe of the map shown to them by visiting "Engineers/space Jockeys" inviting THEM to go, not us in the future.[/u] Yep, this is a valid alternative theory. Either way though, it still works with my proposed answer to point 26, that LV-223 wasn't a weapons depot at the time the ancient Engineers were visiting, it only became weaponised once the doomsday cult moved in. If the ancient visiting Engineers had hostile intentions, even secret hostile intentions, they wouldn't be showing maps to the humans, or at least not the correct ones. [u]It would make sense that they brought some of them back on their ship surely. Why else did they build that elaborate system to generate breathable air, and a covered entrance from the ship to the urn chamber that doesn't go through the outside air? It's not for the Space Jockey's benefit. We see that guy running around outside with no mask, no helmet, in air that would kill any of us.[/u] Someone on the Prometheus did say that the air outside would kill in 2-3 mins because of high CO2, not that it was poisonous and would kill instantly. You might be right, but equally it could be that although the Engineers are much more tolerant of CO2 than us, they are still much more comfortable in the atmosphere inside the domes. I take your points, but I'm still sticking with my theory :-)

Hadley's Hope

MemberOvomorphJul-01-2012 2:54 PM
It wasn't Carbon [b]Di[/b]oxide (CO2), It was Carbon [b]Mon[/b]oxide (CO). Ford said Carbon Monoxide, and later Holloway says Carbon Dioxide, but he's wrong, as usual. 3% Carbon Dioxide wouldn't kill you. The air we breathe out has more than that (about 4%) and that's safe enough for mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. Trying to breathe Carbon Monoxide, as Ford correctly says, is like sucking an exhaust pipe. It won't kill you instantly, it will knock you out in seconds and then your dead in under two minutes, so pretty fast. It bonds with the haemoglobin in the blood preventing the blood from carrying any oxygen to the brain, heart and other tissues. And it would take a radical change to the human body to be able to adapt to that.

Doctor Watson

MemberOvomorphJul-01-2012 5:59 PM
If the alien race was created due to acts of Prometheus in 2093, how come the aliens existed in avp1 and 2 which are set before...also avp1 states that the aliens have existed for thousands of years? o.O

brego

MemberOvomorphJul-01-2012 11:47 PM
Not understanding something, or not getting answers one expects or understands are not plot holes. A plot hole is something like. Why would experienced, highly paid scientists take their helmets off on a previously unknow planet containing humanoid micro climates? Why did it take so little time to find the Engineer outposts, yet so long to realise that a Silica Storm was coming? Why was the Engineer able to run from his crashed ship to the escape pod without a helmet on? Why was Shaw able to pilot an Alien Ship with only the working head of a Robot.

sameer khan

MemberOvomorphJul-02-2012 12:30 AM
I believe this is how they should fit in the preds - millions of years ago, the engineers came to earth to start life on a planet they felt could sustain life. Once life started, first came the amphibians, the reptiles, the dinos, etc. Then came humans, who then (according to AVP) were visited by the predators who taught the humans how to make pyramids, tools, etc. (basically everything about starting a civilization). This might have ticked off the engineers because the engineers and the preds are two species that have been at war since start of time to take the title of being the ultimate inter-galactic species. Also, the preds ''breed'' humans every 100 years because humans and the engineers have the same dna. So, by hunting humans, the preds actually polish their fighting skills so that they become better equipped to fight the engineers as ghey have the same characteristics.

Hadley's Hope

MemberOvomorphJul-02-2012 5:52 AM
@Sameer [u]I believe this is how they should fit in the preds[/u] That's not going to happen (nor should it imho) Ridley Scott does not like the Predator crossover, nor do most Alien fans. If they are included at all it would be like a joke, the way that Predator 2 briefly showed a Xeno skull as one of the trophies on the ship.
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