The Engineer/Xenomorph Connection

@ Hadley Never took that into account. Just the fact that they showed us what they wanted to show us. Although now that we touch upon the subject. It gave the Hammerpedes acidic blood. But still. Didn't turn them into Xenomorphs. Oh, and it made them aggressive. But still, the definitive use, is the Engineer's use of the black goo. That's the Engineer's role with the black goo.

Of course it didn't turn the little worms into Xenomorphs. Xenomorphs have two arms, too legs and a neck. As do humans and Space Jockeys. worms, are invertebrates, so they got teeth, acid blood but no limbs.

Yup the suit looks exactly like the Xeno's body. The Biomech stuff if you will.

Yeah, the Progenitor can only arise from Engineers. Plus, it brings Giger's Xeno life cycle to fruition. It shows what seem to be an Engineer with a mask on.

I said this before the options are... 1) Decon Xeno eventually gives birth to the Xeno, i.e creates Eggs. 2) The Black Substance via different events creates Alien Lifeforms depending upon the series of events and Organism that comes into contact with the Goo and how it comes into contact. Thus a simular set of events that lead to Shaws Trilobite Baby (bad name as its not a Trilobite FFS its a Squid/Octupus) and the resulting chest buster could have at a different time resulted in the Traditional Xeno. 3) The Traditional Xeno has had its Genetic Structure deconstructed into the substance simular to how the Sacrefice Engineer had his DNA deconstructed. Thus the Urns contain the broken down building blocks and DNA of the Xeno. So basically the Goo is like the common Egg.... meaning you can have fried Egg, Boiled Egg, make Cakes, make Pancakes etc etc... i.e there is more than one use and outcome for the Goo....

The goo does something rather similar to humans as well. We have the DNA, although without the gene inhibitors for nipples and body hair etc. Look at Fifield who got a face full of the stuff. His eyes are gone from the acid... Yet without eyes, he can quietly approach a ship (the nearest life forms not in stasis - note to Weyland Corp... you REALLY should have copied the stasis beds from the Juggernaut... would have saved Newt and Ripley.) He crouches down, lets someone approach and then launches a fierce attack with no fear or concern for his own safety. He just keeps on killing. Little trucks run him over and flame-throwers eventually subdue him. Gee... that ferocity reminds me of something I've seen before in a Ridley Scott film... and the truck going over it reminds me of something I saw in a James Cameron film once. If only I could recall what it was.

Yyyyeahhh... I don't think the Goo is the Xenomorph. When it reacts to something other than Engineers, anyway. Even when i saw the trailer, and saw the scene where Fifield jumps at someone, i kind of figured that whatever they get infected with, gives them Xenomorph characteristics. But we didn't see acidic blood. If RS added that in there, then it would be set in stone. But that wasn't the case. Plus, when you look at the simple fact that the Engineers have a mural about the Xenomorph, it's pretty clear that it means something to them, and they are directly involved. Also. One thing i forgot to mention in the OP. If you take a close look at the Engineer's entire suit. It actually looks as if it's integrated into HIM. Look at the hands, and how the suit runs down the length of his hands. Plus. I believe this further solidifies my theory on the Engineer's will to give life to the Xenomorph. He was on a mission, and he was pissed. I think that reflected the creation of the Progenitor/Deacon.

[u]But we didn't see acidic blood. If RS added that in there, then it would be set in stone. But that wasn't the case. [/u] You assume that the change is instant? That if he hadn't been killed by Janek, there would have been no further progression?

Hadleys hope--I asked this of you in another thread too---but if this is the case---was Holloway going to become a xeno? Or was he affected differently due to coming into contat with a smaller amount of goo do you think?

Holloway ingested a tiny amount of diluted goo. Fifield was physically steeped in it, as were the worms. The hammerpede was also extremely aggressive and unnaturally powerful for something ~ the size of an average terrestrial adult snake.

[i]"Oh, and it made them aggressive."[/i] @Prenihility - it gave them Fire. Think about the phrase describing someone as "all fired up." And when you are talking about sex and reproduction (which this movie is filled with), fiery passion can be another term for aggression. I'd bet good money that the writers had every single synonym for 'Fire' written down on a design board someplace.

I do love the look of the Engineer's bio-suit but it's a shame it had only two small 'pipes' or holes on its back, instead of the four that the classic Xeno has. It was still a great looking design.

The alien's shape being influenced by its host's makes sense in a way: Xenomorphs coming out of humans and Engineers/SJs, squid in the belly of Shaw, because it came out of a sperm. However, why would Xenomorphs product more identical Xenomorphs when using humans as hosts?

Nevermind the host's looks after it's born... Look at the classic Xeno (one born from a Human), and look at the Engineer. It's kinda scary... I just have this feeling that the connection, once revealed, will be incredibly sinister and evil. So much so, that i will actually want to change my mind about wanting the Engineer to live. As some of you may know...i'm a huge Engineer nut-swinger... so, yeah. *Puts on Engineer pyjamas before laying down in Engineer ship-shaped bed*

Here is a comment by Lindelof about the Deacon "I felt that the punchline of Prometheus was going to be that there is human DNA in what we have come to know as the human xenomorph."

I'm starting to see it this way.... Green Object + Black Goo = Egg Black Goo (Holloways sperm) + Shaws Egg = Giant Squid (Facehugger) + Engineer = Deacon The Deacon we saw erupt from the engineer, is identical to the one we see depicted in the mural. It was born in basically the same lifecycle as we see in the mural, EXCEPT, the Green Object + Black Goo = Egg/Facehugger... was replaced with Shaws Egg = Fetus/Squid. I think the xenos were created by the engineers as weapons. If the engineers sacrafice one of their kind to create a deacon queen at the altar (we know they can be sacraficial when creating life) their juggarnauts can then carry enough eggs to wipe out a planet. ....crazy ideas?

"But we didn't see acidic blood. If RS added that in there, then it would be set in stone. But that wasn't the case." We did.... the Hammerpede had Acid Blood, Fifield cut its head off and its head grew back like a Worm does but it sprayed Acid on Fifields Helmet, while his face is burning he falls to floor head first into the Goo. As i said the Fifield we see was for a reason, that is that Ridley did not want to use the other Fifields as he may had wanted to savour the Alien DNA until the money shot scene which is the Trilobite vs Engineer and then resulting Deacon Chest Buster. [img]http://i49.servimg.comhttps://www.scified.com/u/f49/17/19/14/78/fiefie13.jpg[/img] This is one Fifield that they was going to use, it was a animatronic. [img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5mbb9x4ec1qg8i80o4_1280.jpg[/img] And the concept that evolved to that unused special effect piece. [img]http://cache.krop.com/ivanmanzella-4fd5eff410fa344.jpg[/img] Another Fifield concept. Finally the shot but not used Fifield CGI which we saw in Trailers attacking people with longer limbs. [img]http://cdn.chud.com/4/44/44852290_1340148988581.jpeg[/img] There are other Fifield concepts and most looked to Alien Xeno in DNA, the ones they finally shot was the last image in CGI and the actual one they used in the movie the swollen head Fifield. Now consider the Hammerpedes and the more Alien Fifield, these show the idea was that the Black Goo will mutate a Organism and this Organism will take on some Alien Xeno Traits. Now yes this goo does not change its victim directly into a Xeno, but then again not all life on Earth looks just like the Engineer, yet his DNA seeded life on Earth. This is why i feel the Urns contained broken down Xeno DNA, essentially the same as the Water Fall carried broken down Engineer DNA. Thus the Urns contain Xeno DNA and are made from the Xeno and not vice versa.

As far as Lindelofs bizarre comment... Well yes the Xeno was Human because... well it was from a Human was it not.... Kane was the host for the Original Xeno, Alien 3 expanded the idea that the Xeno Embryo takes on attributes of its host. The only other way to look at his comment is that he means regarding Prometheus and thus the Deacon, which means he is again hinting that the Deacon is the Progenitor to the Xeno, he did say this was the case and Ridley said Prometheus is where Mommy meets Daddy. But could that all be a Red Herring.....? Or is the comment about the Derelict being on LV 426 for thousands of years the Red Herring..? Who knows... to me the Mural does seem to show the Deacon more than the Xeno, and at the bottom in then shows Face Huggers and Humans so maybe it all hints that the Deacon is the Proto Xeno? I dont like or buy that idea, so it looks like we dont get a answer what we get is sent on a wild goose chase and maybe we will after Prometheus 3 find out exactly the origins of the Xeno.

Well My take on the goo is that it is a multi-purpose tool, like and possibly being) some kind of nano-machine filled substance, keyed to different uses according to the deployment it is going to be used in, That was a millitary outpost, so it is logicall to think it would have powerful weapons at their disposal. Maybe the whole equipment there is spoiled (being organic) after 2000 years of abandonment and the results are what we see in the movie so far. As the engineers at the holorecording were running towards that room, it is safe to assume it was the safest place in the whole installation, but little it helped them, as we saw their corpses found by Fifild. Were they running there to get weapons? This brings another question...the engineers at the juggernaut, where they from that installation, or were they from the attacking force? They entered the ship quite calmly on that recording...and what prevented them from taking off? Ship malfunction? It seems someone must be on the pilot's seat but no one was there, so why enter stasys there at the hangar? Questions....

Thanks for posting Voidhawk. Now. To get to something that's been on my mind for quite some time, now. I might have posted it already; i'm not looking back at my previous posts. Too lazy :D. But if someone remembers me saying this, don't hesitate to call it out. Alright. Four... Four stasis pods. Chambers. Whatever you wanna call 'em. And only one Engineer occupying one of the four pods. Also. I'm fairly certain that room and/or suit the Engineer was wearing, was very specific. Some questions to ask yourselves. Was the single remaining Engineer special from all the rest? Did he unleash the dangers of the Engineer base deliberately upon his comrades? Was he insane? Yes, i know, a bit of a goofy question. But, hey. It's possible. Why him, folks? Why, WHY ONE Engineer?! Why not... him and his friend Bob in the stasis pod across from him? Yes. It has holes, and looks like it can be pressurized. But you know, there could be a simple explaination as to why that wouldn't be straying to far off from my main theory about the suit. It simply has more than one function. The main thing i had in mind; it has SOMETHING to do with the Xenomorph. The suit is LITERALLY a part of the Engineer. When Weyland talks to the Engineer, and he moves his head left and right, you can see that it moves together with his head. It doesn't even look like a separate item. Also, taking a look at the hands. Starting from the the fingers, going all the way back to the palms. You see the "suit" gradually blends in with the remainder of his body. Now, that second functionality i mentioned earlier. Simple. He was in stasis. It does act as as pressure suit. But it's that ONE thing that i can't stop thinking about. The chest area. Or ribcage area. Well, where you'd THINK a ribcage it suppose to be. Looks exactly like a Xenomorph's body. Also. When the Deacon was born. We see that the back end of its head it sharp. The Deacon, is in fact... the Deacon on the mural. Same head. And why do i say this, you might ask? The sharp head is there, because it is necessary so the Deacon is able to break out of the Engineer's body when being born. We can even see it, clearly. When it's emerging from the Engineer's body, the point comes out. Which is necessary to break out of that hard outer shell of the Engineer's integrated... suit? I don't even know what to call it anymore. All of these things point towards the Engineers somehow having an exclusive connection to the Xenomorphs. I strongly believe the Xenomorph born from a human (or any compatible host). Which is possible through the lovely facehugger; is nothing more than the Engineers at work. It is a modification of the Xenomorph's birth process. Which leads me to my next thread. In the near future :D.

Adaptation, or malfunction/degradation of original weapon... Anyway the eggs found in the derelict ship from the first Alien Movie are not the same, or were a very specific weapon to be deployed to a given target, as they were fully organic and were neatly stored in huge stasys transport bays, so they are not the same thing we see in this movie. Completely different design, or the original weapons those at that base were trying to copy/replicate uisng their multi-tool gooey thing. As I proposed in another thread we might be seeing two different forces against each other, something yet to be disclosed. Also good observation there. The creature at the end of the movie does resemble the one at the mural, and it is logical to have a proper tool to break that hard outer shell... And to me, it is not a suit at all...too integral to his body...something we easily note. (Ah, he was battling everyone butt naked all the time and no one noticed XD )

Yeah. The xenomorph eggs are a completely different thing.. but i'm not sure why you're comparing them. The urns strictly house the black liquid. Well... if i had a nicely toned, rock-hard Engineer body, i'd battle everyone naked, too... geez. But no, seriously. Now that i've touched upon the subject. WHY THE HELL WAS THAT ENGINEER BY HIMSELF? It's... just too damn strange.

He might be the saboteur, we might find it later. And yes, that instalation was a weapon's depot/research facility probably, and what we saw in Alien was a ship going to deploy a specific weapon against someone... The urns there house many different things in reality, and I think they were actually spoiled after being exposed to the atmosphere and the humans entering the chamber, as we see them firstly pristine. then they start to sweat, and when Yanik see them, they are oozing their contents. I clear signal of spoiled items... The juggernaut at the hangar also had a specific cargo, by David's account targeting Earth...and those were not oozing anything... More things to think about... We might find out that ship was there to attack that installation, and maybe the ones there were attacked and killed by those last aliens we see, and after paying that rogue installation a visit their next target was Earth...a disguised team that fooled that installation and got inside to do their nasty job perhaps...

Hmm... never noticed the Juggy had specific cargo.. and wasn't oozing. Didn't notice that... hmm.. yeah. It was interesting. but then again, this is nothing but old news. I'm thinking about the Engineers that were killed now, too... Their bodies just piled up, in the same spot, too. That weird or what? Why would they be so close together? Just... strange. And do you really think we'll be given more insight into the last Engineer from Prometheus? That would be really cool. A bit of a mundane, random/arbitrary thing to mention. But something i'd very much appreciate. I still wish he hadn't died, though... FFS... i really hope the sequel doesn't disappoint like that.

What if the mission of roughly 2000 years had gone according to plan, to undo the human experiment, just looking at the size of the trillobite, it's just too big for a human, or am I wrong in thinking this? And it those ampules had been released on Earth, is the side consequence, the undoing of all the other life forms and changing them to advanced form, xeno style?

@ Prehilinity: This statement of yours is intriguing: "The Engineer's will to give life to the xenomorph'."

Well there are many possibilities thats for sure and yes we do see that the Engineers Suits look like the Xenomorph to a degree. We do not really see what a Engineer + Black Substance in the Urn would bring. If we do look at the other more Alien Xeno DNA looking Fifields then yes its a possibility that the same process that creates these top two images. [img]http://cdn.halcyonrealms.com/blogpics/prometheusart10.jpg[/img] Then with the Engineers suits as Bio Mech that are actually then fused to their bodies its possible that if the Goo changes Fifield to those Early Concepts then it could change a Engineer in the Pressure or Space Jockey Suits into the Xeno. And all infected Engineers would turn out the same, as the Worms both turned into Hammerpedes that are the same. However the Goo at the start of the movies behaves differently. Again my theory is that the Urns simply contain broken down substance that contains Xeno DNA that then mutates what it comes into contact with to become a Hybrid with the Xeno and thus carries Xeno DNA. But that does not explain where the Xeno came from or its connection with the Engineers, my theory as far as Prometheus is the Xeno was a Bio Weapon the Engineers either came across, stolen or created and they then re-weaponized/re-engineered the Bio Weapon into the Urns using the substance that we saw at the Start of the Movie.

@BigDave. Everything you just said, especially at the end, makes me want to post my new thread. But i'm not sure if i even should... I feel we should just include it in this one... Eeeerrrrrr... what the hell. I won't bother starting another one. We can keep at it; The Engineer/Xenomorph connection. ***But, as of now, i'm making this official, as part of this thread.*** So we can now incorporate it into this thread discussion. [size=200]The Xenomorph. Natural. Or created?[/size] My answer? I have no freakin' idea... honestly. It being derived naturally would make more sense in relation to the Engineers worshiping it. So... yeah. ...FFS. Then again, on the contrary... LOL. The Engineers ARE creators. Bio-Engineers. They would also be proud of such a creation... Sooo... i'm pretty damn stumped right now. Anyone care to take a jab at this one?

There should be more to the ampules than only the black substance, and I personally would like to see it as some kind of repository for different oriented vases. We know they have labels on them (and there is the question of those labels being in another language altogether) and maybe they were there for further studies. Now, why placing them in dirt sooil. The whole room should be sterile and protected...and this mixture of old ruins with high tech could / should have drawn a line on that room, and make it a bit differently and more protected/defended/sterile. What happened with Fifield and with Holloway....hard to really fatom as Fifield was pratically dead whan he fell (we know what that acid does to alloys..in human flsh and plastic, it is so fast that Fifield would already be dead when e fell) and Holloway was alive and in pain. Maybe not mutating into anything but just dying like the alien at the beginning of the movie, although in a slower (more painful) way...creepy. The rib cage of the xeno and the suit model does imply also that the xeno might be a full artificial organism, the dsign being common to the engineers then as we clearly see I am not that much a fan of the mutating DNA idea, as Ash, in the original ALIEN, only stated that he Facehugger could lay an egg on any living organism, his advanced adaptability related to the capacity of using any organic body for that. I would prever they have kept that idea alive. A NEVER changing already honed bio-weapon. Agressive and short lived, fully autonomous and able to use any "large" body to implant its "not changing template pup" in any biological entity. A really dangerous weapon. That is waht we had back in ALIEN and James cameron came and deturped everything just to create a matinee acton movie. The original idea was exactly that, original and logical in its concept, and efficient as no wild mutating thing would be, as such weapon could end up being useless and/or dangerous to the ones that deply it. Actually the whole "xeno-egg-facehugger-pup" cycle is a very coherent control safety device, for you still can wipe the weapon out after deployment if your goal has been achieved (searchng for the eggs and even the faceghuggers would be easier than the full working phase. Actually even the whole DNA altering thing inserted by Cameron and bought by Fox and some fans is a bit weird in the context of the laying eggs - facehugging mechanism. If you can create a xeno only by infecting someone, why the egg cycle? You just drop a bom on the water suply or even create an airborn way to disseminate it and boom, xenos everywhere... The more I think about this DNA Marvel type mutating concept the more it becomes uninteresting and bad science fiction at that, something ALIEN was not... Sheesh...Cameron and Fox should NEVER have touched ALIEN and no sequel should have been done...I am sure that we could have had a way better sequel with a sequel less market directed and more faithful to the cncept and how it was laid back in the original book and movie

Reverse engineered