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4th viewing and new thoughts...

Prometheus Forum Topic

Engineering

MemberOvomorphJune 30, 20122541 Views42 Replies
Just saw the film for a 4th time. Well, technically 3 1/2 because the girl I went with got sick and we had to leave. Regardless I had a few new thoughts pop into my head. First, the seed has been planted in my head this week that perhaps David or an earlier version of David had possibly already been to LV-233. This would help to explain a lot but as a lot of other questions with this film there are arguments for as well as against. Someone said that David or another version of David having been to the planet would explain how he was able to open all the doors, initiate the holograms, etc. I do like this theory but when the Prometheus first arrives at LV-233, David opens the shutters or whatever to see out the front of the ship. When he does this the look on his face did not give me the sense that he has been there. I got the feeling that while he has no emotion he had been waiting a long time to see the moon. Also, if an earlier version of David or whatever had visited the moon you would think that all the info from the previous trip would have been implanted into his memory or whatever so I don't think he would have had quite the same look on his face when he first set eyes on it. I know the look on his face is a little flimsy but his knowledge of how to open doors, start the Juggernaut, holograms, etc can be explained because he had, through Dr. Holloway's(He's a doctor too!) thesis and studying ancient languages, learned how to communicate with the Engineers. If he can communicate with them he can obviously read their writing. What I believe is that Weyland, like the company in Alien, had previous knowledge beyond what Shaw and Holloway have told him. This would explain why he would trust their theories enough to fund the mission even though they were relying simply on faith. This would explain why he threw together a mostly idiotc crew. They were going to be test subjects. Do you really think he gave a sh*t about the planets rocks? No! While I'm sure he wanted a decent biologist on board did he really need him in the end? No! They were simply fodder and test subjects. If that is the case it put an end to a lot of the bitching about some of the crews idiotic behavior. It would also explain the "try harder" conversation. Weyland and David have some knowledge. They know the black goo is the key but not exactly how to use it. They need all the idiots aboard the ship to find out. Instead of spending $$$ on the best, which his company might have use for in the future if he does gain immortality. If you ask me this explains all that away. And it's what I choose to believe. And onto "choose to believe." A lot of people say the film is sh*t if it's a stand alone film. I've never really agreed with that as I love all the ambiguity. I do want a sequel and think it would be great but I've never felt that the film absolutely has to have one. Watching the briefing scene at the moment when Fifield and Millburn question Shaw and she says "...but it's what I choose to believe" really sent an idea off in my head. If there is never a sequel I think this line resonates and mirrors the veiwers point of view. We may not know. There may not be facts to back up our theories but IT'S WHAT WE CHOOSE TO BELIEVE. Just like Shaw. I think that's a very cool aspect of the film and tbh I don't think it was an accident. Anyway...thoughts?
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Spartacus
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[b]"aaaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaaa Engineering Sherlock, they were all chosen because of their disposability, very interesting"!!![/b] ~Spoken Like Artie Johnson On [b]laugh In[/b] hahaha !!! [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/LT.HIGHTIMES/1a1aj.png[/img]
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Solaris
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Makes sense to me
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Spartacus
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What made her sick you don't mind my asking...and lol...??
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Engineering
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@Sparty...Not the film lol. We got some popcorn and they have a stand with all these seasonings. Well, she wanted caramel and kettle corn. She went to sprinkle on on top and the crap like poured out all ridiculously. Plus the popcorn had nasty theatre butter on it. I told her not to eat that crap. She ate it. Add to that a disgustingly sweet, surupy coke and you've got a radioactive tummy on your hands. I did get to see half the flick again and we got out $$ back believe it or not.
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Spartacus
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damn, no after film sex.
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deftones1986
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Delete everything BEFORE the paragraph starting "What I believe is that Weyland...." and I will be in in total agreement with you.
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Spartacus
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"Here's Mud In Your Eye, Pal" ..lol... {Spoken Like Holloway}
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Engineering
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@deftones1986...That's what I was stating. For some reason I put all that other stuff in there to show where the germ of the idea started. I don't believe the stuff above that. So we are in total agreement lol.
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Spartacus
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By The Way I Loves This little diddy.. [quote]It would also explain the "try harder" conversation. Weyland and David have some knowledge. They know the black goo is the key but not exactly how to use it.[/quote]
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Engineering
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@Sparty...Who said anything about no after film sex? In fact, that pepto is working and I gotta go lol!
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Spartacus
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damn it, lost another one. "It ain't easy being Old" `Spoken Like "Frog" {Kermit}!
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Sundar
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@ Engineering, I've only viewed the film twice but never seen the sequence where Shaw is crying after looking at the mural... trivial question but I'm I wrong ?
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Spartacus
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she looked more panic stricken too me!
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Engineering
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I'm happy to have a really solid theory that explains all the idiocy from the crew. Like I said, if Weyland achives his goal or gets close he will need the top experts in the field at his disposal to go further. Therefore he wouldn't want the best to use as fodder and test subjects. He probably hired Fifield because, being the anti-social a$$hole he is, he pissed Weyland off on some other mission. He probably hired Millburn because he has a past of grabbing and trying to pet dangerous creatures which is EXACTLY what Weyland needed. He didn't need a bunch of cautious tight a$$es. He needed idiots that would throw caution to the wind. All makes sense to me!
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jake
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Remember that the "choose to believe" line could be more about Shaw maintaining a connection to her father more than anything...it's what he says to her as David views them together in her "dream". She is a woman of faith, with the contradiction of wanting the answers (the scientist in her, perhaps) to all the questions about the engineer's motivations for everything from creation to destruction. I thought David's reaction to her answering Fifield and Millburn with that line was one of the many moments of "self-realization" he had as this mission played out to it's end. I don't know if I can subscribe to the idea of an "earlier" David or the Weyland Corporation having that much advance knowledge of the Engineers, the black goo or anything else. There may have been other artifacts that have been stumbled on over the years (who know what the Weyland Corp may have found on Mars during all of that terraforming? More/different evidence of the Engineers?) but I think Weyland had just enough information and pieces to the puzzle to convince him there was immortality at the other end of the galaxy...
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Engineering
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@Sundar...I think the mural might be confused with the cave painting from the Isle of Skye. She looks at it and has tears in her eyes. After looking at the mural they all had to haul a$$ and after that they examine the head. She could have had teary eyes while looking at the mural but I really don't think so.
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Engineering
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@jake...The "choose to believe" line could be more about Shaw maintaining a connection to her father more than anything as opposed to what? I think the line is about maintaing a connection with her father. I think it's about her faith in Christianity. I think it's about her faith that the Engineers created us. I think it's about a lot of different things. I also think it's about what the audience chooses to believe. Obviously that's a MAJOR part within the film and from the outside looking in. And as I stated I think Weyland having prior knowledge, who knows what or how much, is something that explains a lot. And the fact that that theme was a HUGE part of Alien and that Scott has stated that he loved that about Alien makes it easy for me to believe he would continue this motif in Prometheus.
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Engineering
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Whoops!
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deftones1986
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I'm just glad to see that people are starting to realize that what seemed to be bad script or dumb ideas are in the movie to prove a point! In every single other ALIEN movie "The Company" is ALLLLLLWAYS behind everything at hand. Either Weyland or some other companies invested through Weyland have tried different ways during each movie in order to become king of the human race by sacrificing pilots, androids, crew members, scientists, androids created by androids, you name it.....The point always being that somebody evil is always behind the horrors that unfold.... "The eternal recurrence of the same" Just seems that people really believe that a big name like Ridley Scott would just hand over some trash movie to Fox and say "yeah whatever, it doesn't make sense but I'll sell some tickets and I owe Lindelof a favor so I let him write and incoherent script." We all have to trust that at some point the answers will be shoved in our faces. But even then....I guarantee you that people will still doubt even the facts simply because those certain individuals would have twisted the story a different way.
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Spartacus
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wear a glove man !
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Sundar
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Thanks @ Engineering, the trailer's implied they occured in the ampule room or Shaw reviewing the mural. Take care.
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Svanya
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It really is strange how much better the movie gets after the initial "first viewing" shock wears off. I saw it 3x and I am ok with the movie now. My first viewing did not go well, I swear to God I felt like Ridley slapped me across the face the first time I saw it.

Bishop is Bae <3

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Engineering
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@Svanya...That's a recurring theme with Scott's films. They ask a lot of their audience. The people who give as well as recieve are the ones who reap the benifits of his films.
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Engineering
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@Sparty...I will lol! @Sundar...No problem!
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Sundar
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Agreed @ Svanya, I'm still critical but ''time wound's all heel's''...
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deftones1986
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@ Svanya Because we all thought it was going to be so much different than Alien. But if you watch the movie, and then go back and watch ALIEN, ALIENS, ALIEN 3 and painfully get through ALIEN RESURRECTION, then you start to understand that PROMETHEUS fits right in there snug as a bug. Its full off all the same ideas.....people who start off with one thing or mission in mind, then things go unexpected, then you have the android who starts to go against all the human counterparts for some odd reason, then "The Company" gets put into the light, people die, freak out, you can go on and on. It just has some new ideas , (NO RIPLEY) yeah that's a big thing that we're not used to, and you can tell that they didn't want to explain everything to us in just one movie.
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deftones1986
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Lol it's just so weird that everybody is on the same page in this discussion. FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!! Loved your point a few posts ago @Engineering...........hit the nail right on the head.
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Svanya
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@Engineering; I have never had issue with his movies, I was 6 or 7 when I saw the original "Blade Runner" in theatre. My father knew the owner of the small movie theatre in my town. He took me to see E.T but I REALLY hated the movie so he said there was another movie playing and we could go watch that, he just took me to the other room and it was "Blade Runner". I watched everyone of his movies, and I never had issue, maybe "Black Rain" but srsly every other movie of his I totally loved. Prometheus, however, didn't even seem to be his. The music, the way the movie was did not feel "Ridley" to me, and I have been a fan all my life, litterally. @deftones1986; I had no expectations entering the movie, no Alien-style ones anyways. Trust me, I know you don't know me well but I honestly had zero expectation. I really did not like the pace and the music, two things that are a huge deal to me and 2 things that I always loved about Ridley's work. His movies are magic to me, "Legend" was so pretty with the falling snow and rose petals and the music, (both versions). "1492", "Blade Runner", the music was spectacular and the visuals. "Gladiator", OMFG there isn't a more perfect movie in my mind. EVERYTHING was perfect with that movie. I loved Lisa Gerrard years before she did the soundtrack, I knew her from Dead can Dance.

Bishop is Bae <3

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deftones1986
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I didn't like the pace either....not joking that was the first thing that hit me when I was in the theatre, and I was like "woah slow down here." Just seemed like the movie was in fast forward the whole time and we didn't get a chance to comprehend anything before the end credits rolled. So I completely agree... But we can only hope that the DVD/BLU RAY/2nd part will help solve that. Fingers crossed...........
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Svanya
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I have to say Ridley has been changing his movies since forever, he changed "Blade Runner" almost entirely from what it first was, "Legend" has 2 soundtracks. So possibly this movie will be the same, and he will add in more and more details until it is perfect.

Bishop is Bae <3

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Engineering
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His film with the most changes is no doubt Kingdom of Heaven. The Kingdom of Heaven DC is the most necessary DC of all time next to Blade Runner. @Svanya...I wasn't saying that Scott's other films had that effect on you or that this is the case with all of his films. It is a recurring theme though. Starting with Alien and Blade Runner with the "all style no substance" reviews. You also have Body of Lies which I think is one of the best spy films ever but recieved bad reviews imo because you have to think to keep up with it. Also, Kingdom of Heaven which had some of it's best stuff ripped out by Fox because they felt audiences wouldn't want to sit thru it. It recieved bad reviews but the Director's Cut which does ask a lot of it's audience is widely praised. The Duellists also asks a lot of it's audience. IMO Ridley's best work are these types of films. Not that he hasn't made great films like Gladiator and American Gangster that the casual movie goer can enjoy.
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Engineering
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But back to Prometheus...Anyone else have any thoughts?
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Cry Havoc
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[quote][i]My first viewing did not go well, I swear to God I felt like Ridley slapped me across the face the first time I saw it.[/i] [/quote] @Svanya - We were all expecting the same Horror Movie intensity as ALIEN and got an Action Movie with an edge instead. It was a good action movie but it felt like a bait and switch because of the trailers. Especially since they used the same music/sounds from the previews for ALIEN.
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Nuck Chorris
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Yoyo, maybe - or maybe not. Maybe David has been there before, maybe not. Maybe weyland and david know more then the rest of the crew - maybe not. Maybe this riddler-style of storytelling simply su..ks... The movie looses much on these "maybees", some other great sci-fi movies work with much less "maybees", a mysterious story AND some surprising conclusion at the end, what we miss here, so we can speculate for decades about the "maybees".
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Sky
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4 times? hats off to your patience. I can't stand that much time in multiplex these days. crowd turns me off for some odd reasons.
Uncertainty is the only certainty there is, and knowing how to live with insecurity is the only security.
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FREEZE!
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Now I am confused...
[url=http://www.madmax4-movie.com/]Visit the Mad Max: Fury Road Forums today![/url]
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Solaris
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@Engineering If you see the movie again, the conversation between Young Shaw & her father goes like this: Shaw: Where did they [people who die] go? Shaw's Dad: Paradise. Some place beautiful. Shaw: How do you know it's beautiful? Shaw's Dad: That is what I choose to believe. Shaw's faith, no matter how naive it is, is in the benevolence of the Alien Creator. When she gets infected with what we humans regard as lower life form, a squid, she looks on in horror & disgust. Remember that MedPod scene? She wants to believe in the beauty of creation, and the promise of divinity. What she gets is a squid. Her loved one died of infection. God's Engineer turns out to be a thoughtless thug who murders her crew right in front of her without a single thought. Imagine the complete reversal of her faith after that. Not that hard to lose faith. PROMETHEUS may be ambivalent about religion. But that is not what I choose to believe.
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Nuck Chorris
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yoyo.. gets pregnant by an infected man, gets squid (but she seems not to be infected, though she shared blood circulation with her baby? hmm). Then she does a selfabortion on a medpod that is only for men. Aha. The medpod is in the room of the projectmanager, and she can enter there without a key (aha, no privatspere for ms. vickers), and she can operate the machine on first try in 20 seconds though the machine is programmed only for men. Then she runs around and noone is excited about the blood. Well, thats like in real life! Yes, that REALLy makes SENSE all in all. : - )
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Hadley's Hope
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Indeed Solaris, she does naively believe that these are benevolent creators - and without even having seen the opening scene of the movie! Would any of us jump to that conclusion if the movie opened with the scene on the Isle of Skye? That's the kind of leap of faith that Shaw takes. And the origin of her faith is also revealing. She's not a considered theologian. She's someone whose mother died young, her dad told her mummy is in heaven, and he was a preacher too... who died and left her his cross. She has very strong emotional (rather than outwardly spiritual or theological) reasons for her faith, and unfortunately it clouds her judgement terribly. Far from being ambivalent about religion, I think this film may even be mocking it, despite the apparent 'victory' of Shaw over the forces of evil. It's a film that can be viewed very [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/8321]differently[/url] from a skeptics point of view, and it is littered with[url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/8557] double meaning phrases and images[/url]. If you watched it and were not aware of more than one way of interpreting it, then you missed some of the key ideas of the film. It is deliberately misleading and vague, so you have to make your own choices as to what it's about, and that requires more than some audience members want to commit to, it's a bit like a [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/8260]facehugger of a film[/url], grabs you, confuses you, and leaves a little egg for the puzzle that Ridley Scott will hope burst out later... :P ( I am aware of how corny this cliche is )
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Spartacus
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I have the DC of kingdom of Heaven and have still never once been able to watch the entire movie, each time I have to turn it off because it is just so damn f'n terrible, I can't even admit to myself that HE made that. I think his most Underrated film is Black Rain which I just absolutely loved and he never changed at all.

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