Ye of little faith...

Before I saw prometheus I posted the following thread :http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/8615 (I apologise for not making the link clickable as I am posting from a blackberry and cannot find any way to do so. Please help. There are times when I am able to access a proper pc but I am unable to do so for about a week maybe 2.) explaining why I thought the movie was made the way it was where I state many of the things stated above. BUT I believe that the dvd will answer more questions. If the movie was made as most people wanted it to be made, a torrent rip would circulate and no one would go back to watch the movie again and the answers would be available and since revenue would be low and no sequal would follow. It wouldn't even have paid for itself. Thank you sir ridley for making prometheus the way you did and thereby keeping the franchise alive. I also apologise to you sir ridley for judging you previously in another post. You had no say In what was used in alien or what the story was. You are probably the most efficient director alive and made a masterpiece from very little resources. I humbly bow and aplogise.........because it always easy to judge somebody else. I have no idea what it would take to make a movie and survive in that industry. Long live prometheus. Ps Damon Lindelof has said that there are answers to all the mysteries in prometheus. I believed him and then started doubting but after this reading I again believe that. Thank you for posting this thread. Pss I only found out about the alien cocoon deleted scene 2 weeks ago. This explains a lot about alien And the mysteries. I have now garnered huge respect and places it above as the 2nd best movie in the alien franchise. No 1 you ask ? P R O M E T H E U S Must I spell it out for you .. LOL

And one day, I will rule the world!!!!! With my iron fist!!!! YOU! OBEY THE FIST!!!!!!!!!!! :-D

I'am 74 years old. My energy levels are not what they used to be (no disrespect to people of that age!) But, i tend to put more trust in my writers now, more than i used to, as i need to devote all my energy to Directing and the Visual aspect! Which, actually i think i am quite good at, actually!

@cypher...Yes, my master.(bows to the fist)[img]http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/images/smilies/bow.gif[/img]

@necronom 4...Good point. I really have wondered if Scott dropped the ball. I ask myself that all the time. Another aspect that could have caused him to is the ammount of time he had for pre-production. He always immerses himself in every little aspect. With films like Robin Hood and Kingdom of Heaven he had a TON of work to do. I mean, he would sit there and not only look at but [i]feel[/i] fabrics that were going to be made into drapes to make sure they were right. I mean, the detail and work he puts in is just staggering. Prometheus did not have all that. He didn't have to approve 100 different designs of flags and swords and chain mail and this and that and the other. Also, he was working with a production designer, costume designer and so forth that he's worked with many times now and trusts. These factors should shed light on the fact that he wouldn't have to spend as much time in these departments therefore he could focus on the writing without having a stroke. Look, I'm not saying that certiain characters weren't poorly written and that. I'm just saying that Scott has the answers everyone seeks. How many answers he chooses to give and how many he leaves ambiguous is up to debate. I like mysteries. IMO answers are usually boring. It's the questions that are interesting. You can ponder questions. Once you're given the answer it's over. Yep, that's the answer. Lets move on. Would half the people who care now really give a sh*t if Ridley had answered how the SJ got there. No. It's been a great mystery for 30 years. Let it stay a great mystery. Give a few answers and shed some light but don't give the farm away.

I think with the "LOST" popularity, i trusted Damon to do a great re-write of Johns work! But he made it too ambiguous for my liking! I didn't really realise how badly it would go down with the Hardcore Fans of Alien! I really thought that they would love it and be able to work out what was going on! I was wrong! Sorry!

You weren't completely wrong. I'm a longtime, hardcore Alien fan. I loved it. Wasn't too much ambiguity for me. Nothing really bothered me. There are things in the film that irritated people and I understand why they are irritated by them. But like I said, nothing bothered me. I came out of the first viewing with my jaw on the floor. Better than Alien imo. Not better than Blade Runner. I do think you're wrong about people's expectations as far as Lindeloff and Lost are concerend. Fans hate Lindeloff. Especially most internet types. I think people went in hating Lindeloff and it may have skewed their veiw of the film.

The Hardcore fans of Alien really expected it to be much darker, like Alien where it taps into the deepest, darkest corners of the mind, actually! I really think that i did a MUCH better job of getting down into the Dungeons of peoples minds with Alien! It was perfect in every way, just like the Alien (necronom). But i feel as though i have let the Fans down with this one. Maybe i should have just stuck with Johns screenplay, actually!!!

Oh, I totally missed that you are Ridley Scott. I have to say I disagree with you to the utmost, sir. Why tell a story we know the answer to? What happened to the SJ in Alien is easily figured out simply by watching the Alien franchise. Prometheus answers more questions on thatg front. It's very easy to put the pieces together, Sir Scott. So much better that you decided to tell a brand new story instead of showing us something which could only lead to a place which we already know. I suppose some people have to have everything spelled out and explained and laid out clean, neat and clear on a little plate and sat in front of them. That's usually exactly what hollywood does and people bitch about that. You do something different and they bitch about that. I think you were pretty much damned if you do and damned if you don't. At least you can keep your dignity and pride knowing that you did something new, fresh and original and also shed a little light on the mysteries that made Alien so great. Instead of rehashing treading on land that has been more than well traveled.

I actually like Ambiguity(sic)! It makes things much more interesting aslong as it is kept to a minimum! There is TOO much in Prometheus! I for one am not too concerned with 'How did that Space Jockey come to be on LV 426?) BUT i would certainly like more of an explination as to WHAT exactly is the Black Goo? Instead of having to geuss, from little information we have and explinations from people on Forums as to what it is and what it does, all explinations getting lost in the masses off theories! Keep some of it a Mistery, Please! But atleast give us more of an explination as to what we really need to know, in order to make a bit more sense of the film, that we have spent so much time and money on!!!

@necronom 4......... How do you think they could have explained WHAT exactly is the Black Goo? Did you want Captain Janek to say "This is a weapons facility and the Black Goo is there weapon. Because I personally thought that line by Janek talking to Shaw was just to spoon feed the audience and was not necessary. OR maybe an Engineer could have asked Bob, "Did you load the weapon in the cargo hold?" Maybe at the beginning an Elder could have said "Here drink this liquid that breaks down your cells and creates new life" I think there is plenty of clues to what it is, and that is ALL we needed in the first film. The Black Goo is one of the great mysteries of Prometheus for good reason. It allows it to be debated whether we were created by accident or by design. It also allows the debate about what the Engineers were planning to do. Destroy us? Evolve us into something else? Xenomorphs? ect ect...... Also keep in mind it might get answered in a sequel.

I've been to see the Film 3 times to try and figure out what is with that Black Goo Exactly? That was £30 with 3 views. Then i bought "The Art of Prometheus" Thinking that that might just give me more of an understanding. That cost me £25, then a few days later the price was dropped to £15! Then, like a BIG MUG, i started going on Forums (which as cost me alot more money) to get more of an explination, to no avail, as all the possible explinations are lost in the Fog of Guess Work, which complicates things even more! Like i said, there are alot of Misteries in Prometheus! Why not just give us more of an Explination of that Black stuff? And people wonder why i'm so Angry! I'M NOT MADE OF MONEY!!! I want my explinations!!!

Oh and they could have explained it with the Engineer Holograms! That would have been pretty Mint actually!!!

@necronom 4...Answers will come. Especially answers about the black goo. Scott crammed as much as he could in this film to set up the sequels. I know people bitch about the cliff hanger. It was left that way because the film would have been 5 hours long just as much as it was left that way to get asses in the seats for the sequel. I know big fans like us would have loved to sit through a 5 hour film where we got everything at once but nobody else would have gone to see a film that long. Scott's juggling a lot here and if you ask me he's done a magnificent job at keeping the balls in the air. He has to worry about a huge, crazy fan base, an audience that knows nothing of Alien, box office numbers, setting up a franchise, not giving everything away and his reputation and own beliefs. He put forth a magnificent film which people are still talking about regardless of if they love it or hate it. I'm not exactly sure how people expect Scott to do all these things that they want him to do. I realize that you spent a lot of money trying to figure out what the black goo is. Like ZMAN 3494 said, you can pretty much deduce that it's a weapon. Hell, Scott has even said it's a bioweapon. The particulars, at this point, are, as David said, obsolete. I'm sure they will come up in the sequel and you will get some if not all of the answers are yearning for. Prometheus definitely is a film that asks a lot of it's audience. Probably asks the most since 2001. Which was Scott's goal imo. Even more than the goal to "scare the shit out of you." Which is impossible to do in a film in current times anyway. Unless it's a film of a terrorist beheading someone.

They could have explained it with the holograms? How exactly? Could you make up a fan fiction scenario and play that out? I'm not saying they couldn't. I'd just like to find out how you think they could have done that and still kept the length of the film to regular movie going audience standards without having to cut something out of the film.

The issue of excessive justification is complicated. This and That and the But of buts....and that people enjoy Prometheus If They forget to Alien. The problem Is that way of talking has absolutely no real foundation to support it in Either the short or long term. But of course put a blindfold is free. BTW, Do not confuse ambiguity and mystery with a lazy script. The fact that Prometheus can sustain its premise based on the mystery does not mean that there are no problems in the script. Well, I just hope that Prometheus does not suffer chronic sequelitis (stretch the gum for money) because although I am excited about a sequel at the same time I don't want to see a Prometheus resurrection.

I'm not thick, well most of the time anyway, i know the Black stuff was a Bio Weapon! I watched the Film 3 times, i think i would have picked that up! To answer the other question, they did spend alot of time on stupid scenes like Milburn getting attacked by a pretty silly looking Snake! And it would be explained in the same way it showed how the Engineers started up the Juggernaut! ie actually showing what they do with it in holograms, holograms in holograms maybe? I'm sure they could have found some way to do it! I mean, you said that the Black stuff will be explained in a Sequel, so how would they do it then? Surely if they can explain it in the Sequel, then they could have explained it in the First!!! Consume Consume Consume! Greed Greed Greed! Money Money Money! That's what Prometheus is all about!

@Mapusoul...I'm not saying there aren't problems in the script. However, show me a perfect script and I'll say Prometheus sucks. Every script has some problems. I'm about to start a thread called "Blade Runner Plot Holes" that will give examples. Blade Runner has plot holes but it's still the best sci-fi film of all time. IMO and a lot of others anyway. I too hope Prometheus doesn't go the "Resurrection" route and I doubt it will. If it does, just stick to Ridley's films and you'll be ok.

@necronom 4...Stupid scenes like the hammerpeede? Did you expect the film to have, like, 1 alien attack? The film had to have some horror and suspense. Someone had to be offed before the final devistation with the awakened engineer. And showing Engineers starting a ship in holograms is totally different than explaining what the goo does, where the goo comes from or how it was made, how it's used, what all it's uses are etc. What do you want to know about it? The questions that I posed above? If so, they could not have explained that in a hologram. SHould they have made the whole film about the goo? Please be more specific about the questions you have about the goo. Actually, I think I should bow out of this now. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I watch Bladerunner all the time as it is my second favourite film, after Alien and i can't see any plot holes in that! Apart from the Mistery of 'is Deckerd a Replicant?' But i think Ridley as Commented, a few times since that he is a Replicant. I too hope Prometheus doesn't go down the reserection route! But everyone involved with the Film are business men so....Money Money Money! Give it to me! I think most people would have prefered to have had more of an explination about the Black Goo than the Milburn Scene! There was really no reason for that scene to have been in there. They could have found another, less cheesy way of exposing Fifield to the Goo! The Shaw Birth scene, Holloway scene and Fifield scenes would have done! :-)

I don't see any "plot holes" in Blade Runner either. But there are all kinds of things in Blade Runner that resemble things that haters of Prometheus consider "plot holes." The point of the thread I'm starting is to show these people that if these things in Prometheus are "plot holes" then Blade Runner has some as well. Alien even has some. There was a thread a while back where I brought a few up and we discussed them. I've been watching BR Final Cut and taking notes on the subject. When I finish I'll start the thread.

Engineering, I think you're going to receive a Right Royal Shock when you realise JUST HOW MUCH CONTROL young Lindelof was given during the production of Prometheus. It should really be called a Scott/Lindelof Production from what I hear of Lindelof's pro-active involvement with the project from start to finish; he came up with all the convolution that's pissing everyone off and even came up with the VIRALS (eye and birthday and ted). Lindelof even received an executive producer credit, such was his involvement throughout the film.

Please link or name sources where you hear about all this. I'll post some links that back up what I say. From Lindelof... [i]"There were drafts that were more explicitly spelled out. I think Ridley’s instinct kept being to pull back, and I would say, “Ridley, I’m still eating shit a year after Lost is over for all the things we didnt directly spell out, Are you sure you want to do this?” And he said, “I would rather have people fighting about it and not know then spell it out."[/i] [url=http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/06/02/when-bleeding-cool-met-damon-lindelof-prometheus-loose-ends-repeat-viewings-and-sequels/]LINK![/url]

Still can't find the specific one I'm looking for as it's quite old but here's one where Lindelof explains his exec producer credit and how it wasn't granted until AFTER the film was shot... [url=http://collider.com/damon-lindelof-prometheus-star-trek-2-sequel-interview/171934/]LINK![/url]

Here's a video interview where Lindelof says that... [i]"It's Ridley's movie...John certainly contributed lots of ideas most of which I built on and I came up with some stuff organically to the process but at the end of the day my job was sitting across the table from Ridley Scott asking him a series of questions like he was on 60 minutes and then based on his answers to those questions I then went and generated a screenplay...So I felt like I bullied Ridley into dictating the movie to me."[/i] [url=http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/06/02/when-bleeding-cool-met-damon-lindelof-prometheus-loose-ends-repeat-viewings-and-sequels/]LINK![/url] I'm looking for a specific interview from before the film came out where Lindelof says exactly what I and others have been saying and even takes credit if the film sucks. I'll find it and this will be over.

Perhaps you need to look at the parts some people call plot holes as just plain awful script writing or direction -either way it makes the film worse. Just want to pick you up on this: "He knows exactly what happened in Prometheus, what it means and where it's going." And just set it along side a quote from the back of the official prometheus art book by ridley AFTER the film is finished! : " I’m thinking about what the hell I might do for a ‘Prometheus 2’ ...”" I am hoping this was a clever ploy but really it feels like the truth sorry engi :P

"there's a chance that he, for some reason, decided to say "f**k it!" Actually Sir Ridley swears a lot. And I really mean A LOT. But yes, with great age comes greater neglect, and defo he is loosing many brain cells.

Only problem is allot of people say that there will be no directors cut! YIIKES!

Engineering Please elaborate more on ridley. What you said about his attention to detail is facinating and makes me respect him even more because this means hugely increased workload that may not necessarily mean more money at the box office. Some more would be nice. A character reference to ridley scott if you will. Would be nice. Because often those who do the best work and does proper quality control that comes from the heart and soul often gets critisized the most. That's just life I guess. Crabart I hear what you are saying but as I understood it there will be 15 minutes added to the original film. Are you saying that other people infers that the extra footage will not provide any extra answers ?! I don't know for certain and I share your frustration. Here to hoping they are wrong.

If you ask engineer he'll say hes an angel with no flaws can walk on water and means everything he does. :D Unfortunately the real world is not like this - I am a mega fan of him yet I can still see hes gone down hill recently - just look at the other films and peoples responses to them though prometheus was allot better than robinhood and kingdom of heaven so heres hoping....

I like the ideas they had and Lindelof vision is great, just the execution well its not so great. If the movie had the cut bits added then i think it would have been better. But there is the ability they are going for and thats to tease us and also allow more scope for a sequel and want us all wanting answers so fox will fund the sequels. so not a bad movie aside from some plot holes and parts where characters acted out of the character we had portrayed them as. Weyland and Vickers where never utilized enough... And the cheesy Vickers and Janek scene well that sucked.... Vickers should have said "maybe, and i am off to bed now and you will never find out" in reply to Janeks "are you a robot"

(Please please please This post is not a response to anything someone said on this thread or anywhere alse on this forum. It is commentary on the general movie paying public of which I am one.) People are messed up. Actually poeple are f....d up. The more you give them what they want, the more they want. They want it now and if they can't get it now they go somewhere else.(I am like that, yes I am an idiot! LOL) Eventually you run out of ideas to keep raising the bar to get bums on seats. Then what do you do? You have to revert to classical themes and proven ideas. And even then people are still fickle saying "been there done that" But if you tease them and keep them at a distance they remain interested and start to weave their own ideas. It was my impression that after alien a lot of people wanted fox to do a sequel that answered those mysteries. Not ridleys fault. Ridley said it wasn't a prequel and then said it was again. So what ? I still maintain if he did it any other way prometheus would not have paid for itself and everybody would have said : how boring ....oh that's what it was about ,,,what's for supper tonight ? Don't forget: prometheus is a R rated sci fi movie. It takes a genius to make 300 mil from such a movie in the current economic climate. In the post I pasted above one of the respondents said that ridley said that sci fi was as dead as the western. It has all been done in sci fi nothing left to explore. No ...people are impossable to please even at the best of times. Peope are .... Guessed I said it enough. Ridley is as much a business man as an artist. And the genius of RS is that he can juggle both at the same time. Very hard work indeed at 74. Engineer I'm with you: the answers will come. But crabfart I hear what you're saying. By way of closing it just accured to me that people desperate for money will almost do anything to get it. So what was the response of the prometheus crew to hearing why they were there ? That's right. If they were told that before the mission would they have gone along? I doubt it. The only way to get people to go was promising them a sh@tload of money and not telling them the details. Almost like someone leaving a war ravaged poor country being promised a job in a another country by unscrupulous cheap labour brokers.

Shaw probably did it for free but that's besides the point I can think of reasons for them going but it was what they did there that didn't makes sense lol!

Crabfart Point taken

I'm sorry, but as much as I like, nay, LOVE Ridley Scott's visual style, it will always echo in my mind how he had said he hated and didn't know that much about sci-fi, back when he was shooting Alien. Sure, he may have said it in case Alien blew up in his face or to coax Harry Dean Stanton into playing Brett, but I also remember all the bizarre ideas he had for Alien that were shot down by Brandywine (Ash should be a Martian, the alien should bite off Ripley's head and speak with her voice, etc.) I also recall him saying that the sci-fi movie is dead, gone the way of the western film. Thanks to the past glories of Alien and Blade Runner, he returns to sci-fi and makes Prometheus and praises the genre of sci-fi, producing and making appearances on the Prophets of Science Fiction series. That all being said, I don't know what the hell to make of him anymore and I'm questioning everything he's doing, including hiring Lindelof. I'm afraid we'll never know if he intended to make Prometheus confusing or if he's just covering Lindelof's ass.

@Crabfart........ Robinhood is really not that bad, its actually pretty good. For the most part people just didn't like it because it wasn't the Robinhood story they are used to. It is set before traditional story. Im not saying its amazing but its good. Probably about an 8 out of 10. Kingdom of Heaven is AMAZING, you heard me amazing. The theatrical release received a lot of criticism and for good reason. But that is not Ridley Scotts fault. It was because the studio cut almost an hour of footage. That is why many of the characters had poor development and their decisions didn't make sense. However, the directors cut fixed all of that by adding the removed footage. Hence why Kingdom of Heaven is an amazing movie. American Gangster is also a great movie, very underrated. A great character focused movie (Denzel Washington and Russell Crowe are great in it) that shows a different perspective on drug trafficking. Also it has some pretty intense scenes as well. Black Hawk Down...... One of the best war movies. nuff said. Body of lies is also very underrated. So anyways I really don't see how he is going down hill.

Robinhood was bad by anyone's standards and so was kingdom of heaven they only got an average of 40 percent ish from the reviews so I am not the only one saying this black hawk down was slightly better but only average but war films like that always get loadsa support after all the industry is almost entirely run on teenage boys :P . The DC of Kingdom was slightly better but still only like a 5 out of 10 at best-ish least prometheus is better but com-paired with alien / blade runner and gladiator they look awful plain and boring. My god you think black hawk compairs with apocalypse now - they are not even in the same galaxy! Body of lies was ok I watched it thinking it was by his brother and thought ok yer its his level then found out it was ridley and my heart sank. Its a common thing to happen its not just Ridley look at any of the best directors and pretty much 100 percent always go downhill with age weather is age or too many yes men or being too up ther own asses who knows it just happens but that doesnt mean I dont still hold out for the buck in the trend that may happen and yes promtheus bucked it a bit but no were near enough. Even Legend and matchstick men were in a different league to what hes done recently and I am a big fan so it take something for me to say it :( ....

The film is scheduled for release on Blu-ray disc and DVD on October 9, 2012.[206] In a June 2012, interview Scott stated that the home release would feature an extended cut of the film featuring an additional 20 minutes of footage and up to 30 minutes of deleted scenes. I quoted this from wikipedia. But apparently the extra 20 min of footage is not the truth.

Crabfart, how did you know just exactly how I feel about Ridley? You are so right about me. I mean, EVERY ONE of his films is a masterpiece! He can do no wrong. In fact, if he had directed, say, Tom Green in Freddy Got Fingered, it would have won an oscar for best pictrure. Best...Director...EVER. Now, lets step back into the real world where I hate Hannibal, GI Jane and White Squall...I don't like Thelma & Louise, Black Hawk Down, A Good Year, Matchstick Men Someone to Watch Over Me or Robin Hood...and I think Gladiator is just a tad overrated. Not saying any of the are "bad" per se. A few are. But most of them are just not my cup o' tea.