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VOTE on the FINAL Canon Debate

craigamore

MemberOvomorphAugust 13, 20123702 Views31 Replies
Recently Snorkelbottom, myself and several others have been having a rather vigorous debate about the canon status of AVP and whether or not Charles Bishop Weyland fits in with a timeline that now has Peter Weyland establishing the company. I could go into ridiculous detail about both sides of this debate, but that would not do justice to either my side of the debate or Snorkelbottoms, so....here is the link to Snork's thread.......[url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/9360]The FINAL Canon Debate[/url].........and I suggest you read as much of it as you can to fully appreciate both sides. Either: - A - As Snork contends: AVP is canon and Peter is so vain as to completely eliminate the founder of his company from its official corporate history, despite what the rest of world would already know considering Peter's Weyland Corp. is the largest of any kind in human history. OR - B - As I contend: Prometheus establishes a semi-reboot to the franchise that rejects the AVP's and their history, re-establishing the history of Weyland Corp. with Peter as the sole founder whose parents are left nameless on the timeline as they are little more than his parents, not famous or of note in any way other than that they gave Peter life....i.e....The franchise begins with Prometheus and chronologically continues through Alien and its sequels. We have gone back and forth so much that I believe we have reached an impass in which we must turn this over to the people. Please vote members and tell tell us where you stand....
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Custodian
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original Alien xenomorph as a lone vampyre-like transmutative sex maniac is THE ONLY CANON worth wielding, imho. Everything else, especially that canon-breaking Queen in Aliens ISN'T.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
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craigamore
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I'm asking for a vote on the two positions above and that's it....Please, people, read the material and vote for choice A or B.
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Gavin
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Woah, Hold on a second here, no offence bud, but just because you feel the debate is over doesn't mean that myself, those in support or those against do.

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craigamore
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I'm not saying it's over. Sorry if you felt that's what I was saying. I'm just trying to get a sense of where other people are on this, because I feel like you and I are just parroting the same stuff back and forth, over and over again. I'm just trying to bring new blood into the fray. Again friend, sorry if you misunderstood as that was not my intention. I just figuredf that a new thread would organize the voting process. That's all.
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Svanya
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What I understood from Snorks posts is that there might be a possibility AVP is canon based on some clues left in both franchises. He never pushed the subject further than speculation. I certainly never read anything about Peter being vain or the like. @FreePlanet; O_o... Sex maniac?? What movie did you watch??

Wat

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Custodian
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Svanya, this one, and the [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA_7XI5Haqg]ORIGINAL GIGER IMAGERY[/url]. [img]http://maxcdn.fooyoh.com/files/attach/images/1068/289/761/alien.jpg[/img] What film did you watch? And the phallic nature of the Alien head itself? And the face-raping face-hugger? And the labia-majora-like egg opening. And the porn mag shoved down Ripley's throat? Remember, in the same scene, above, the shot of Xeno's second mouth softly sliming out of its gaping mouth, feigning snake-tasting sexual allure? And the delicious TAIL BETWEEN THE LEGS death scene of Brent (was it?) Was there anything more sexually possessive as several of the scenes in Alien? [img]http://i.imgur.com/y7qVM.jpg[/img] Even the death of the males where they 'got their brains f***ed out' by xeno's skull-ly penetration. What film, indeed?
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
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Gavin
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as mentioned in the thread of mine to which you link... [i]A poll will bring out the majority of those that are against the idea, and just serve this debate no favors.[/i]

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Custodian
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for me, AVP was a great little film that explored a parallel aspect of the whole ALIEN canon, much in the same way that Prometheus wasn't really an Alien prequel, or in any way related (apart from a Stolen Juggernaut and back-engineered Space Jockey chair).
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
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David 1
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AVP IS NOT ALIEN(s) CANON! sorry folks, wishful thinking does not make an exploitation attempt on both the Alien and Predator franchises, canon material. You can see it as you please, by all means, but there are no Preds in the Aliens movies, thus, Predators do not belong in that movie Universe. Furthermore watch the alien movies again and point a Pred there, or even a "hint" I'll help you: [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/9366]NO PREDATORS IN ALIEN MOVIES[/url]
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
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BigDave
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I am going to say b) And for starters i dont think that AVP movies intended to be canon to Alien etc. I agree that AVP could be canon to Predator movies, but not the Alien ones. And i think the biggest reason for Peter Weyland is simple.... Ridley does not see AVP as Canon and by creating the founder as Peter Weyland it therefore in the context of Alien and Prometheus means that Charles Bishop is not the founder and thus rules out AVP as canon. Off course this whole discussion is with the fans as i dont think any of the Alien movies and Prometheus have ever tried to hint or connect any connection between Alien Xenos and Predators. The big question is how does Alien 3 now become canon to Alien and Prometheus? Because Weyland had no sons and Vickers is gone, so how do we get to Charles Bishop unless Peter has a brother and its that line that then succeeds and runs Weyland Industries.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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Gavin
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@ Big dave... Weyland corporation and Weyland Industries first appeared in AVP. And the character you refer to from Alien 3 was not called Charles Bishop, or even Michael Bishop, he was referred to, in the movies credits as Bishop II

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Batchpool
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A [b]NO ALIENS IN TESCO[/b] http://youtu.be/yHZBh1mXBAw

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David 1
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in Short: [b]B[/b]
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
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Fan
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After following the "final canon" debate for a while, I backed off because its a debate that in its very nature is based on speculation and opinion...no solid answer can be made at this point in the franchise. Snorks thread clearly asked that if anyone can provide real solid proof that avp is not canon, than please do so....No one can. Everyone can argue their "opinion" though... Alienamberclad made a good point in snorks thread where he pointed out that writers and directors are not going to deliberately contradict other writers material....Its not good for business. I vote A and good luck with the rest of the vote. FYI My girlfriend is working late, so I just raided the "upcoming zombie apocalypse" cabinet in the kitchen and ate 2 cans of beefaroni....doesnt taste the same as it did when I was a kid.
ALL generalizations are WRONG!
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Svanya
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@FreePlanet; I am well aware of the sexual undertones of the movie and the artwork, however it still doesn't define the Alien and a sex maniac...

Wat

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Fan
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yeah, I dont know about the whole sex maniac thing...undertones yes, it is a giger creation after all.
ALL generalizations are WRONG!
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Hercules
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What in the hell is this "Alien vs. Predator" thing? *wink*
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Jelbright
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B. I tend to think of AR and the AVP's sorta like the old Marvel Comics "What If..." series. Stories with well known characters in situations that are not "canon" but yet cool and interesting to read. Although, AVP is way better than AR (which I unfortunately sat through again last night).
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Custodian
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Svanya, you have to look with better eyes than that, "The Alien is the ULTIMATE STAKER DAD-TO-BE." :)
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
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Custodian
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"History is always REWRITTEN by the victors." and this also applies to Corporate History. You know, the more I think about it, AVP AS ULTIMATE CANON has more and more validity. What was the main thing about the Alien Juggernaut? Anyone? That it had been there for (potentially) thousands of years. What's the main thing about Prometheus? The Juggernaut Drivers have been around for thousands of years, or more. AVP might just be (being) woven into the real early history of xenomorphism.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

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