Forum Topic
KrazedMadMan
MemberOvomorphSep-03-2012 6:45 AMOK so nobody will probably even read this but as a fan of Aliens and Ridley Scott I have to post my HOW YOU COULD HAVE MADE THIS A CLASSIC IN 10 SIMPLE FIXES! I hate editing movies in my head to make them enjoyable but it seems that nowadays you really have too, OK I'll try to go in order of the film as best as I can remember.
1. Cave paintings, make it uncertain why they are there, invitaion maybe? but debate the other reasons they may be there, like to let us know of other life, or maybe even as a warning, just leave it open to debate until later in the movie when motivations become more clear.
2. Scan from ship sets up a reason for landing where they did, power/life signature, unnatural formations, just something to set a sense of discovery not blind luck. EDIT: They had a good reason for this flight path, memory was a bit foggy on this one.
3. Readings from ship and scientific equipment clearly indicate that it's safe to remove protective gear, or set up a reason why he takes it off, suit malfuntion, could even be latter tied into if David tampered with it.
4. Two guys who want to leave, not because of some 2000yr old alien, but because Davids pushing unknown buttons and crazy things are starting to happen, have whole group more concerned with Davids motivations at this point.
5. Guys get lost, Have some signal disruption going on, make it unlear why, could it be whatever Davids doing, have ship lose signal with crew at this point, sets up not only our lost scientist but the approching storm that they have little warning for.
6. Back in Main chamber have Alien Worm suprise attack them (did you see something moving in there) and the resulting struggle causes the acid spray, this would make more sense and could be a much needed tense moment at this part of the film and it sets up how dangerous the goo will become later.
7. Surgery scene, two things here, one cosmetic and one fix, make the squid monster a little more classic alien looking at this point, make the surgery process make more sense, show tissue reconstruction not staples.EDIT: Creature design here really has no bearing and may be explained later. EDIT 2: what I mean is that she would not be able to function after this operation with way the surgery ended, use sci fi to make her future actions more believable.
8. When the alien ship crashes, set up a reason why the Engineer hunts her down instead of finishing his mission, like what looks like a piece of the debris that lands close to her turn out to be a ejection capsule that opens to reveal the Engineer.
9. in the final fight again have a more classic looking alien squid looking creature that attaches to the Engineers face with a resulting more classic looking chest buster alien come out of his dead body. EDIT: see above edit.
10. When David contacts her about another ship set it up that he can get it to work but that like the first ship it has a pre destined flight path but it's to an unknown star and it's there only option for leaving, I find it wierd that she doesn't want to warn mankind of this impending doom, this would also set up many more theories as too what was really happening on this planet and leave it more open ended for the sequel.
Well I hope you like my ideas/thoughts on this and if you have the imagination I do it may help make your memories of this film more enjoyable, lets just hope that Scott ditches that hack Lideldork or whatever his name was and makes a proper end to this beloved franchise tie in.
43 Replies
Patient Leech
MemberFacehuggerSep-07-2012 5:26 PM[quote][b]Thanks for derailing my post with your religious views, Just like in real life if we don't believe in your God/Faith based veiws were a bunch of uneducated heathens who need you to spread the light of reason too us[/b][/quote]
When did I EVER express my personal religious views? I never did. You don't know shit about me, so don't jump to unnecessary conclusions. I never [i]condoned[/i] that way of thinking, I was merely defending the actions of the character in the film to support WHY they took off their helmets. It lends reason for WHY they did it, when everyone keeps saying it was such a ridiculous thing for scientists to do. The debate between Science and Religion is an old, but fascinating one and it is what's partly at play in that scene.
I don't know [i]HOW[/i] you got the impression that I'm some faith-crazed Nazi. I'm not. Not only are you bad at [i]writing[/i] in English, but apparently you can't interpret it very well either. Get over yourself, guy.
galacticPM
MemberOvomorphSep-11-2012 12:29 AMWe have to bear in mind that most of those things outlined will get in the way of good story telling, those things are overlooked because they are unimportant and not essential to the main plot.
Fan
MemberOvomorphSep-03-2012 7:35 AMWelcome! ...and nice job.
The minor/major(depending on how you look at it) changes that you suggest would definitely help the believability of the story. I do also wish that the creatures were a bit more Alien like, but the storyline changes alone would have greatly helped the film.
ALL generalizations are WRONG!
David 1
MemberOvomorphSep-03-2012 7:40 AMGood post.
Agree on everything except the "more alien like" things. The rest is pretty much bullseye.
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
Patient Leech
MemberFacehuggerSep-03-2012 10:03 AMYeah, actually some decent ideas there, with the suspicion surrounding David and all. I like that. But the way i read that is Shaw and Hollaway's hands were tied as far as control over the mission. Vickers spelled it out to them, remember? I think most everybody was just there to enjoy the discovery.. the old man financed the expedition, so he SHOULD be in control.
And as far as why they took off their helmets, i'm getting really sick of explaining this to people, so listen really close (it's pretty simple): THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE COMING TO MEET THEIR BENEVOLENT CREATOR, SO AS SOON AS THE AIR WAS BREATHABLE, THEY HAD "FAITH" (SO TO SPEAK). But of course "they were so wrong about them." They turned out to be maleficent. Blind faith blinded them to the potential danger. But taking off their masks didn't infect them, so their faith was justified as well as misguided... pretty profound i think.
And no, the creatures were designed beautifully. Definitely don't agree there. The Deacon IS "Alieny."
djamelameziane
MemberFacehuggerSep-03-2012 10:20 AMPatient if that is the reason for them taking there helmets off they are even dumber than I thought and so is the film - I really dont think its that stupid tbh!
The real reason was to engage the audience and make it seem more scarey whilst acheiving what ridley thought would be better scenes later on (them having the helmets off they can talk more clearly etc..) . But all it did was make anyone with half a brain think oh my f***ing god this film just took a dive into awfulness - only a really really dumb person would do that and even then they would be very unlikely. Scientists doing this - no chance well not real ones anyway!!! That scene will go down in the hall of fame as worst clangers ever!
In real life IF they took them off I reckon one of them would be dead in 5 minutes - some kind of security device would be activated (it being a bio weapons facility!) or maybe all the air gets flushed out every few hours or some black goo or green goo or microbe etc. etc. would of got on / in one of them and the fun would start. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would of kept it on.
So yer that scene: maybe holloway takes his off cos he is king of the retards in this and then the others say f**k no I am keeping mine on and he dies a few seconds later - everyone in the cinema goes YES! The film instantly jumps 2 notches up in the score board! Wooohoo! :P
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D
Patient Leech
MemberFacehuggerSep-03-2012 1:25 PM[b]Patient if that is the reason for them taking there helmets off they are even dumber than I thought and so is the film - I really dont think its that stupid tbh![/b]
Why is it so stupid? It's kind of the entire point of the film. Ridley is openly critical of religious dogma.
Fan
MemberOvomorphSep-03-2012 3:23 PMKrazedmadman: Again...I think you nailed it.
As far as the "taking helmets off thing", well, that was just stupid, BUT.....
I always thought that Halloway was a thrill seeker, got that impression somewhere when watching the film. So it didnt surprise me when he did it. Also, I was pretty sure that Vickers and the captain told him not to do it. The others simply followed his stupid action after seeing that he did not die or something. Still, who the hell would do that without a device that would tell you everything is all clear to breathe. Maybe their suits analyze the atmosphere, and he had good reason to trust it? Maybe this was a part cut out of the film?
ALL generalizations are WRONG!
djamelameziane
MemberFacehuggerSep-03-2012 4:32 PM@patient because I think only shaw was religious - all the others had no clear indication of being religious (as far as I can remember) so why would ridley want to portray them as so stupid...and the fact that the other reason I said above feels much more likely. In fact only shaw and david came out not looking like a complete idiot! Kind of contradicts that point!
@Fan Yes and the scanners apparently cant detect green goo or black goo or little worms either - not much good eh? :D
Anyway nuff said...there is lots more that could of been so easy to patch this up - I was hoping for a Directors cut but its not looking likely now :S ...
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D
dopelganger
MemberOvomorphSep-04-2012 11:04 AMKrazedMadMan,
Great post and some good ideas. I can give you my take on some of your 10 things:
1. Cave paintings – I was not really concern why or how they got there. I do not think the why, when or who really has any bearing on this movie. The scene was there to setup the one and only known reason at the time – invitation. We know later in movie that there was other motivation by David through Weyland.
2. Scan from ship sets up a reason for landing where they did, power/life signature, unnatural formations, just something to set a sense of discovery not blind luck.
Correct me if I am wrong but after seeing this movie 3 times there was a setup – one of crew said he had a very week reading and they proceeded in that direction. Not blind luck.
3. Readings from ship and scientific equipment clearly indicate that it's safe to remove protective gear, or set up a reason why he takes it off, suit malfunction, and could even be latter tied into if David tampered with it.
I believe that the helmets came off because of filming only. They had to write in a reason so atmosphere or breathable air was a good reason. Remember Alien – the helmets kept fogging up. There had to be a reason to remove them for filming purposes only so that was reason. I see your point but who cares – its scifi anything is possible.
4. Two guys who want to leave, not because of some 2000yr old alien, but because Davids pushing unknown buttons and crazy things are starting to happen, have whole group more concerned with Davids motivations at this point. Those “two guys” were there for the money and nothing else. Start adding crazy things and any joe off the street will lose it. One of them was smoking in his helmet. They did not want to be there.
5. Guys get lost – It makes sense why they got lost but I agree with you walking around on an alien planet with dead bodies and decapitated aliens is a bit stupid. That scene go have been done better.
6. Back in Main chamber – This is always debatable for me. I have no problem how it was presented but I think your right that presenting it a little more edgy or scary versus some idiot trying to fondle a penis looking snake would have been better. But again these two dudes are presented as outright idiots so this scene makes sense from that perspective.
7. Surgery scene – I think this was done perfect.
8. When the alien ship crashes – I am good with this no explanation necessary here. The ship crashes and the engineer goes hunting. Yea they could have had the stasis chamber the engineer was in double as an escape pod but he was driving from the big chair. To have to explain that whole sequence would have cost a lot of money and time so that scene requires a little imagination on one’s part. I am good with it because it’s irrelevant and has no bearing on the end result.
9. in the final fight – Nope! That would have made it full blown Alien movie and for Alien fanboys that would have been great. But for others it adds a totally new look and concept which is fresh.
10. The ending is good no changes needed there.
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Patient Leech
MemberFacehuggerSep-03-2012 6:33 PMBeing religious had nothing to do with it. They were all aware that they were there to "meet their maker," or at least some intelligent life. The star map was "an invitation," so why would it be a harmful or hostile environment? I'm really not understanding why this doesn't make sense... I think everyone is [i]insistent[/i] on it being a fault, so they're exhibiting willful ignorance. If there [i]are[/i] indeed faults in the movie, this is not one of them.
Fan
MemberOvomorphSep-03-2012 7:11 PMThis reminds me of Galaxy Quest when they fly down to get beryllium spheres for their ship. A crew member opens the shuttle door and Guy yells,"What are you doing?! Its an alien planet! Is there air?! You don't know!"
Its like, you just don't do it unless you really know for sure...and Holloway did not.
ALL generalizations are WRONG!
SubsumeYou
MemberOvomorphSep-03-2012 10:53 PM Far, are you thick? Or are you pretending? David is a device, a highly advanced form of machinery, but a device. Can you put 1 and 1 together now? Please.
spacejock
MemberOvomorphSep-04-2012 2:27 AMMost of the points you made are actually in the movie, but will come through clearly only at multiple views. I saw the movie 6 times. Everything was justified for me in the movie.
spacejock
MemberOvomorphSep-04-2012 2:30 AMStill a nice post from you. But also, to me the surgery scene was so spot on the best scene not only in Prometheus but among the top few scenes in scifi for me, so when you said "two things here, one cosmetic the other bla bla" that just made me laugh. But no offense, nice post.
djamelameziane
MemberFacehuggerSep-04-2012 5:31 AM@patient erm 2 quotes from you above: "It's kind of the entire point of the film. Ridley is openly critical of religious dogma."
"Being religious had nothing to do with it."
Do you see the way you just contradicted yourself :O ! Tell me what you really mean maybe?
And yes I reckon they knew the air was breathable (but this wasnt very clear - they said 'it was cleaner than earths') but they still were surprised when they found the green goo and black goo and never saw the worms till they were 9 ft long penises with teeth :D so they obviously did not know what was round the corner (and very large bio or otherwise stuff) thus making this all very retarded!
Also: "why would it be a harmful or hostile environment?" Who the hell but retarded people would think hey they are massive sized human type aliens with mega advanced powerful technology. We know almost nothing about them - and nothing about this place - hey it must be safe! LOL! Seriously reality check! They didnt even know if it was an invitation - all they had was pictures of them pointing to the stars / planet - pretty stupid thing to risk your life on!
Let me point out that this building turned out to have probably the most dangerous black goo in the history of mankind in it with apparently no security measures in place. In real life don't you think that maybe they would have just one or two safety measures - I mean even Mcdonnalds puts a slippage sign up when they mop the floor :D .
Alien logic: black goo capable of wiping out every life form known - leave the doors open and unlocked - its fine :D ! LOL
I am not arguing that this was all intended stuff by the makers of the film I am saying its there logic that failed at step one. Even lindelof stated before the film came out that basically ridley fed him all the info and he just wrote it down - as if he was distancing himself already from the film - kind of saying these were not his ideas - rather strange for a writer of the thing itself!
Let me ask you a question how many people who are around 74 have you spoken to lately? The ones I have seem to forget stuff all the time can't remember what they did a few days ago. Lose things misplace things etc. etc. . Now imagine they are in charge of a film like this with all its complexities - what do you think might happen? :D Sorry to be harsh there but its life - you kind of need someone to work along side almost as an equal checking the logic when you get directors of this age but there egos are too big by this stage - of course they are perfect at there job :O !
@Subsumeyou "Far, are you thick?" you were typing a 3 letter name and got it wrong - I think we know who's thick :D ! No - I hate spelling myself - only joking. And david was surprised when he saw the green goo so he did not detect it - erm DOH !
Anyway nice thread and there are more bits that could be added but I dont have time - laters...and anyway allot of this will depend on part 2 in the end :D
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D
Patient Leech
MemberFacehuggerSep-03-2012 9:07 PM^^ Do they have any SPAM??
[img]http://timenerdworld.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/586_spam.jpg[/img]
[b]Its like, you just don't do it unless you really know for sure...and Holloway did not.[/b]
I saw the movie 3 times. I am almost certain he [i]was[/i] taking readings and knew that the air was breathable.
zzplural
MemberOvomorphSep-04-2012 11:52 AMI'm confused. There have been plenty of opportunities in this thread for the usual detractors to bite their way through their restraints and have a pop at Damon Lindelof. And yet there are no juvenile pictures evident. What's going on?
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent
Patient Leech
MemberFacehuggerSep-04-2012 5:24 PM[b]@patient erm 2 quotes from you above: "It's kind of the entire point of the film. Ridley is openly critical of religious dogma."
"Being religious had nothing to do with it."
Do you see the way you just contradicted yourself :O ! Tell me what you really mean maybe?[/b]
They are two separate concepts. The characters not being religious doesn't mean that they couldn't have been persuaded by Hollaway's actions. Religiosity still was an influence whether ALL of the characters were religious or not. And Ridley's criticism of religious dogma may not be THE main point of the movie, but it's a definitely relevant. Two different concepts.
djamelameziane
MemberFacehuggerSep-04-2012 6:11 PMHmmm not sure what your trying to say all the same are you mixing religion up with Ochlocracy or mob rule as its modern day name is? If so it wasn't a mob it was one idiot that everyone else seemed to follow - it really doesn't make sense from any angle at all - apart from maybe being a Holloway in real life looking at the film! Whoa maybe thats it :O jk ! And ill say it again if ridleys trying to criticize religion why is the most religious person or only religious person the main hero / winner who survives? I really didnt see much of anything said in this film I hope its all to come because it was very bland in that sense...if it were a comment on religion and all people in general it would be everyone's stupid and acts unlike anyone you have ever seen in real life?! The other way of looking at it is so sound its air tight this way look like a kid made it up then ripped it up and threw it across the room randomly!
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D
Sentinel
MemberOvomorphSep-04-2012 7:01 PMI was thinking the same thing as @dopelganger
In the original Alien, one of the biggest problems was keeping the helmets from fogging up. I'm wondering this this was just an easy way out of having to do retakes because of foggy helmets.
Patient Leech
MemberFacehuggerSep-04-2012 8:41 PM[b]...it was one idiot that everyone else seemed to follow...[/b]
Don't forget that taking off their helmets didn't actually cause the infection. And they [i]did[/i] meet their maker. So it wasn't completely unjustified. They just... [i]pissed off[/i] their maker. lol. A handful of people experiencing the wrath of god for the sins of all of humanity.
KrazedMadMan
MemberOvomorphSep-04-2012 11:25 PMThanks for all the comments, this is my third time trying to reply to some of what has been brought up, so if this makes it though these are short answers to the most debated questions, tired of typing for 30 min to have it lost ugh.
Every infection has a completly diffrent effect, no creature continuity, more a ruse to is this a prequel until final scene than a planned thought out direction.
(see alternate creature designs) Tho after reading some other ideas, like the urns contain manipulated Xeno DNA the squid like alien could make perfect sense.
Faith covers only Him and maybe his Wifes choice to remove there helmets, scanners did not give all clear, many bio organic discoveries found after means no way was there an all clear.
Surgery, great scene but sorry, up and running and fighting minutes after having major muscles cut and not properly healed = impossible.
Final fight, Ok so one, how did he find here so quickly among all that wreckage and more to the point, he didn't give two craps about any of them moments before while leaving, but now instead of going to another ship and completing his misson he'd rather go searching for someone he doesn't even know is alive.
I hope none of this sounds like I'm being mean about my comments, my first couple tries at re posting were lost and much more friendly sounding, these are just quick retorts not my full thoughts.
Sure maybe in there panick to get the hell out of there they weren't using the mapping system but it's hard to believe that once they were talking about being lost they couldnt simply use it then, both ship and away team had locations at all times so it felt a bit silly and it poorly set up the chamber scene where a dead head scares me but a hissing cobra is something I wan't to pet,..lame.
I think the reason this film is so debated is it's own fault, for most of the film it sets itself as this Grand Intelligent Philosophical production but then suddenly becomes a cheesy B horror movie where something happens just to set up another scene without taking the tone of the film into consideration, it's very jarring for alot of people when a film seems all over the place and more so when it's a well produce film from a very accredited filmmaker.
Ok Credit due, it's been awhile since I saw the film so a bit foggy on some details, Ok they did read I think it was a power signature before landing, EDIT 9 simple fixes =) or make 10 get a better screen writer!!! LOST was a mess after a few seasons and may have the most plot holes of anything ever written.
And yes I did mostly enjoy this film....mostly =)
Patient Leech
MemberFacehuggerSep-05-2012 4:06 AM(Yeah, the site logs you out after a while if you don't have any activity. I've lost a few posts, too. It's frustrating. And it's something I've already brought up with Chris. I think this is still a new and developing community and could use quite a few changes. But it's the only Prometheus community that I'm aware of, hehe)
[quote][b]Faith covers only Him and maybe his Wifes choice to remove there helmets, scanners did not give all clear, many bio organic discoveries found after means no way was there an all clear.[/b][/quote]
I don't think anything read [i]"all clear"[/i]. It's probably a bit unrealistic (even in sci-fi terms) to imagine technology that would be able to detect the presence of microscopic lifeforms in an entire environment and [i]then[/i] decide whether they pose any threat human beings. But he [i]did[/i] detect that the air was breathable... hence the "faith-based" decision to remove his helmet.
[quote][b]Final fight, Ok so one, how did he find here so quickly among all that wreckage and more to the point, he didn't give two craps about any of them moments before while leaving, but now instead of going to another ship and completing his misson he'd rather go searching for someone he doesn't even know is alive.[/b][/quote]
It's film editing. They speed up processes so the film doesn't last 3 and a half hours (like a shitty James Cameron movie, lol). Pacing is an important aspect. We don't know the extent of Mr. Engineer's ship technology. He could have thermal readings of the planet, etc. And as far as his intentions and plans go, I don't know either... he's [i]only human[/i] not a god. ;)
[quote][b]Surgery, great scene but sorry, up and running and fighting minutes after having major muscles cut and not properly healed = impossible.[/b][/quote]
Nothing is impossible. I really don't think it's that crazy. I've had abdominal surgery (inguinal hernia). It sucks for the next 24 hours, but you don't know what kind of pills she popped or what kind of numbing effects that machine was capable of. And besides, it's not like she dug around inside herself and disrupted a bunch of tissue (That would make it [i]extremely[/i] painful). All she did was remove a foreign body. And to me, the bigger issue is: if the creature was growing as fast as it was, we probably should have seen it growing before our eyes as she pulled it out!!
But seriously, dude. It's science fiction and it's some damn clever science fiction. You could probably pick apart nit-picky little things all day long. These are not the most interesting things to be discussing about the film. Much more interesting are the ideas like what it means to die, and is there supposed to be some sort of nobility in death... Pretty fascinating (and tragic) that Ridley's brother killed himself just recently.
KrazedMadMan
MemberOvomorphSep-05-2012 4:42 AMOh Leech, I was Going to tear into u a bit but ur ability to make no sense is too extrodinary for me so I'll just ask nicely, Plz stop Trolling with your wako comments.
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteSep-05-2012 5:21 AMI was thinking about this recently and thought to myself - if I had written Prometheus how would I have made it better, and I came up with a few ideas...
We all know that a movie is made up of 3 acts - the beginning, middle and the end. Now in most well made and well scripted films the division between each isn't always easily identifiable, but unfortunately in Prometheus it is...
[center]Ship - Dome - Ship - Dome - Ship - Dome/Alien ship[/center]
WTF? We the audience, and the characters care more about whats inside the dome than whats on the goddamn ship so instead I would have simply had them all stay in the Dome when the storm hit. Why? Because they've travelled nearly 40 light years to find this place and they wanna uncover its secrets, not spend 10 minutes each time, barely investigating anything.
So I would have had them land, rush into the Dome, storm hits, they all stay inside, uncover some secrets. Fifield and Milburn bite it have David infect Holloway inside the Dome before leaving to investigate the glitching pup, and thus discovering the last Engineer. Following morning they discover Milburn, Holloway shows he is infected (but having kissed Shaw, she is also infected), they rush back with Holloway being burnt and then I would have carried on pretty much like the rest of the film, except I would have mutant Fifield attack as the Weyland , Shaw, David and co are about to leave. And finally I would have more of a struggle between Shaw and the Last Engineer inside the lifeboat.
dopelganger
MemberOvomorphSep-05-2012 10:32 AMIsn't this wonderful how one movie can get under your skin like Prometheus? I love this site. So many creative minds, great ideas and critics. The thing is - it is just sci-fi so anything is possible and can happen. I remember back when a simple Black and white film made in the 50's and some 60's were so bad but yet I was riveted to the screen. Just love sci-fi - still go back and watch Buck Rogers, Lost in Space, Star Trek (tos), UFO, The Invaders and the list goes on and on. Man things have come a long way in 40 years. Gota love it!
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djamelameziane
MemberFacehuggerSep-05-2012 4:21 PMYer I am not sure what patient is on about half the time either not sure if he was trolling either its all a bit incoherent a bit like promethues eh heh :D ! That idea of fogging up helmet yes of course that does make some sense too I heard they actually CGI'd the helemets on in some scenes - makes total sense to as they were also saving money. Pitty it all detracted so much - but hey ho here to hoping it gets better...
"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D
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