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Murals and green stone

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thegoodtimesguru

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 12:35 PM
Does anyone think it strange that on both audio commentaries on the blu ray that no one comments on the alien murals or the green stone??? Its almost like they were not commenting on them intentionally. I mean come on!
24 Replies

Kast Iron

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 12:46 PM
I think the murals speak for themselves. There was someone on this board a while back who found the original images used to make those murals and they clearly show an Engineer playing a dominant role over an unknown creature. It just shows the superiority of Engineers over their creations. Engineer are pretty vain I think (giant Engineer face says it all). As for the green stone, it lays on a table right next to a Xenomorph in the wall, so I'm guessing it plays a role in sacrificing an Engineer in order to create a Xenomorph - the ultimate killer, or just 'death'. It's in contrast to the opening sequence when a 'pure' Engineer drinks something out of a cup and dissolves into water to create life.

geopap

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 12:55 PM
The mural does not show a "dominant" engineer, but the mythical figure Prometheus who got his liver eaten by this strange creature. According to the ancient Greek myth, Zeus tied up Prometheus on Caucasus because the last one gave fire to mankind and an eagle (symbol of Zeus) was eating every day Prometheu's liver. The martyr was endless since Prometheu's liver was being self healed the next day, until Hercules freed him.
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.

thegoodtimesguru

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 1:00 PM
It just would have been interesting to hear their thoughts on these items. I kind of feel that the green stone holds the original DNA of the Xeno who's image is on the wall/door.

joeyjoe

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 1:00 PM
@thegoodtimes: oh yeah... i notced that. the writers and ridley (moreso the writers. Ridley, being the director, focused primarily on the visual aesthetic of the film) deliberately bypassed the visual clues housed within the ampule room. I imagine that was all intentional. Some of the biggest clues concerning the bio-chronology of the "alien universe" are shown to us in the ampule room. I imagine they dont want to spoil things for people.

thegoodtimesguru

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 1:09 PM
They have said things will move further away from its ties to Alien in Prometheus 2. Who knows if any of these questions will be addressed.

joeyjoe

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 1:17 PM
oh no. i dont mean that they dont want to spoil sequels for people. I meant that they dont want to spoil the fun of digging through the film and finding the clues for onesself. I agree. i think (and hope) that the sequel to prometheus will veer further away from the alien/xeno etc. Having said that, i think we can start pinning down the various events/time-line/bio-chronology ourselves. There is a good bit of info. when you combine Alien, Prometheus, the commentaries, and the Blu rays. The ampule room shows us 4 pieces of artistic expression (to my knowledge). 2 different frescos on the ceiling, the bas relief that charlie comments on, and the big engineer head sculpture in the center of the room. I just want to mention the second fresco because i havent seen it mentioned in this thead and its quite informative. This fresco depicts a traditional egg/spore (analogous to the ones seen in Alien) and the hand of a traditional alien/xeno (again, its the same hand we see in Alien (1979)). lovely bit of information this fresco is.

AlienAge11

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 1:41 PM
Much as I LOVE the film, I find it pretty annoying that in order to properly see those murals we need to go online and search for stills. Yes it's clever and excites people's interest and even spurs us on to seeing the film gain and again... but it means that the film doesn't fully function without the support of other media.

thegoodtimesguru

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 1:46 PM
Regarding the ceiling murals I recall one of them being visible. The one with the creature kneeling before the engineer. Now I have seen the egg mural you are talking about in the art of Prometheus book. Not saying its not in the movie though I might pop in the blu ray and see if I can see it.

thegoodtimesguru

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 1:49 PM
And the way I see it if its not in the movie its not cannon.

Ruhaniya

Veteran MemberMemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 2:23 PM
I find it odd also that there is no commentary on it....the only one to have commented on it was Holloway in the film. He said "It's a tomb" Or otherwise meaning they are all doomed! Yet no explanation to why he felt that place was a tomb...there were no other bodies in there? From this point the pace of the film changed

joeyjoe

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 2:28 PM
@thegoodtimes: yeah. the original piece is shown, unobstructed, in the art of prometheus book. the piece is also shown in the film (ampule room). Right around the time shaw notes that they have affected the atmosphere, we get a shot of the fresco depicting the alien/xeno hand and the egg. Its partially dissolved by the time we see it, but the egg and the xeno hand are still clearly visible. Throw in the blu ray and pause. you'll see it. I agree with you in the sense that...if its not in the film, its not canon. The fresco in question is in the film. I enjoy this kind of stuff!

thegoodtimesguru

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 2:31 PM
I'm only certain of one thing... this film will drive people to insanity.

Lee Harram

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 2:37 PM
I was just gonna mention what was mentioned above, if you pause the blu ray or digital copy you can see it nicely... Also I love the idea that they did not comment on these or speculate the purpose of either in the movie or commentaries. Finding my own conclusions on these is what makes this movie/experience so enjoyable for me. I believe the green stone is an energy source for the ship and this is the technology that would change mankind even further much as Prometheus did when giving the fire to man. Opening the door and the atmosphere changing has activated a natural defense mechanism, leading to the mural depicting death/defense. I only hope more people start to enjoy this film for what it is and not dislike it for what is not.

thegoodtimesguru

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 2:49 PM
Okay so I just popped it in and I saw it. Though its not very clear and I wonder if I had not seen it first in the art of Prometheus book would I have come to the same concuslion that it was a egg.

zzplural

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 3:28 PM
@Lee Haram: [i]"start to enjoy this film for what it is and not dislike it for what is not."[/i] Well said. Your pithy little sentence has a resonance with me because over the months I've found it desperately annoying when people time and again find mistakes that aren't there, don't enjoy their own imagination, or lack the patience to see how this wonderful genre will expand.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

synthetic_69

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 4:38 PM
[u]goodtimes[/u]: You wrote: "I'm only certain of one thing... this film will drive people to insanity." Truer words have never been written. On this past Tuesday I bought the 4 disc Blu Ray version of "Prometheus" and on Thursday night I sat down and watched all of the deleted/alternate scenes. I watched those scenes with the mind that what I was seeing was not canon. That said, I felt dumbfounded by the scene in which Vickers suggests that Weyland "look at the thing squirming in the next room" and also by the scene when Janek talks about there being seismic activity coming from "one click out". How much footage exactly did Fox hold back? So, was there a scene in which David and/or Vickers became aware of Shaw's "abortion"? Or was there another alien life form on the Prometheus (e.g. Milburn's baby Hammerpedes)? And what's the deal with the seismic activity? Then there's the mystery of the green crystal. I won't even bother to list some of the other mysteries contained in the film that are still unanaswered. I love this film and it has and will continue to drive me crazy!

Kast Iron

MemberOvomorphOct-13-2012 5:26 PM
@geopap: Yeah thanks for that info I already knew about, and no that mural doesn't show Prometheus. This is what it shows: [img]http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8058/prometheusi.jpg[/img] Which is this: [img]http://www.desktopjazz.co.uk/wallpaper/Giger/albums/hr_giger_pII_the_primitive_creature_p9_1280x1024.jpg[/img] So it is a mural of an Engineer putting his arm over a kneeling inferior creature. Pretty obvious sign of Engineers power.

oduodu

MemberXenomorphOct-13-2012 5:35 PM
To all What I find very hard to believe is that there is no ectended / cut scenes for the cargo hold , orrery and ampule room scenes with the exception of the engineer speaking . And as the OP indicates no commentary either. coincidence ?

thegoodtimesguru

MemberOvomorphOct-14-2012 3:46 PM
I don't want people to get me wrong I love Prometheus. I guess part of me wanted to hear them comment on the murals and the stone just to justify all the time I've spent analysing it. What if we were wrong, so wrong!?

Roscoe

MemberOvomorphOct-15-2012 2:59 PM
People need to google alien mutual Prometheus and look at the detailed one created that has the 2 men stood in front of it. It shows in the bottom left hand corner an engineer looking up at the alien in the crucifix pose an in the bottom right corner a face hugger . Wonder if this means the typical or perfect alien xeno comes from the hugger and engineer DNA .

Trevorlang314

MemberOvomorphDec-09-2014 8:56 AM

I think the mural of the xenomorph is representing sacrifice, being in a crucifixion pose. They create the xenomorph to sacrifice it, to further extend their life span. They sacrifice humans in the same way. Humans might be the intermediary step they need in order to produce the xenomorph, where as in the beginning they were sacrificing themselves to create the creature. Why continue to do that when you can create another creature like yourself and destroy them. "Sometimes in order to create, one must first destroy." 

Trev

BigDave

MemberDeaconDec-09-2014 3:54 PM

Well Trev thats kind of right, the Xeno represents Sacrifice.  It at least shows that the Sacrifice of Some Xeno Related Organism is of great importance or at least became of great importance to the Engineers, well those that was using the LV 223 Moon.

As far as why, and if it expands their lifespan well this is where the movie is so ambigious that it is hard to tell, only be taking and connected the dots to Spaights draft can we make more clear connections.

The Creature in the Mural Ridley referred to as the Deacon, Spaights the Ultramorph, in Spaights draft there was a Ultramorph and the end, and in Lindeloffs the creature at the end they referred to also as the Deacon.

Now the Creature on the Mural does have some similarities with the Deacon at the End but they are not identical, the Deacon at the End was the result of a completely random sequence of Events set off by Davids theory and a little experiment he wanted to try... now did David know the result would lead to Shaw getting pregnant? We cant see how or be sure, at the very least Weyland asked him to try harder and so perhaps David was looking for a Guinea Pig to see what the substance does on a Human.

Could David had made out from the Engineer Writings etc the potential that it would lead to a Deacon via Shaw? I doubt it... but we cant be sure.

Here is how i saw the Deacon, what we have in reverse is a Chest Buster Organism, that is more fully formed and larger than the Xeno Chest Buster, the Deacon also lacked the hands of the Xeno, its fingers and toes was quite Human. The Deacons Teeth also they was Enamel and not Metallic like the Xeno. The Deacon was also born with a Placenta...

These all add up to being traits of a Mammal, Human and this is because when we go back to the Face Huger which is Shaws Trillobite Baby this creature is Part Human/Xeno Face Huger and thats why the Deacon had more Human Traits.

The Mural Deacon also has a Xeno look to it.... i do not think this Deacon is a Xeno, and it also is not the same as Shaws Deacon Off Spring...

The Mural shows a Organism that is related to the Xeno, it could be what predates the Xeno or something that is a EVOLUTION of the Xeno... i believe what we see here is the result of some experiment the Engineers was conducting upon other Engineers, the Deacon in the Mural is either the result of the Xeno Face Huger on a Engineer, or indeed some other kind of Face Huger that they had been experimenting with.

The Mural shows us also the two other unused Face Huger designs for Alien that was never used, as they went for the third...

Spaights draft showed this Engineers was Engineer many types of Face Huger and not just one kind we are familiar with.

To me the Mural may show maybe either what proceeds those Face Hugers and what they and maybe all Face Hugers come from, or indeed it shows the result of one of those Face Hugers.

Whats for certain, well very likely is that the Creature in the Mural may be what the Goo in those Urns at the very least comes from.... This does not have to mean the Goo in the Sacrificial Scene comes from that Mural Deacon...

If the stuff in the Urns does not come from it, then surely the Mural is what the Engineers was trying to create from the Goo in the Urns.

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconDec-09-2014 4:21 PM

I will now try and put my two cents to the Mural, which i have done so over and over and keep coming to the same Logical Conclusion...

To get to this Conclusion, i did have to use Spaights Draft, as Prometheus was a Evolution of his Alien Engineers Draft.....

In Spaights draft we do not have Goo, we have at the Sacrificial Scene, Tiny Scarabs, and these bugs in there hundreds of thousands, they consume the Engineer, molecule by molecule so that there is nothing left.

In Prometheus we see the Goo do the same thing break our Engineer down into nothing, the resulting broken down Engineers material some flies off into the Wind, most of it falls into the Water Fall and somehow either comes into contact with and evolves basic life, or it simply reforms as basic life.

 

In Spaights draft we just the Nano Scarabs that consumed the Engineer fly off, but then latter we see one of these Scarabs bite a early Primate... this Primate is then injected with the Cargo of Engineers DNA and starts to mutate and evolve.... this is Spaights hint to show how Mankind came to be, its more of a straight interaction of Engineers Sacrifice = Bugs contain his DNA that then bite a Primate to pass on his DNA and = Early Mankind or the start of our Evolution from Primates.

 

Lindeloffs shows Engineers Sacrifice = broken down Material that then either mutates basic life to start evolution to complex life, or indeed shows the seeding of first basic life forms (which may not be that case as the world already had plant life and Algae so the world already had basic life) so Lindeloffs shows the Material resulting from the broken down Engineer Mutates Basic Life and Evolves it.....

 

Latter in Spaights draft we next see the Nano Scarabs within a Urn, in his Draft the Urns contain Scarabs, but these Scarabs did not break down Fifield like they did the Sacrificial Engineer, they bitten him like they did with the Primate after the Sacrificial Scene... Fifield then started to mutate, only he mutated into something very related to the Xeno, his mutation contained more Xeno DNA than Prometheus Fifield did.....

 

If we look at the first account of the Scarabs biting a Primate that Mutated it to what we have to assume is Mankinds Ancestor... Why did Fifield mutate into something genetically related to the Xeno and not a Engineer/us..?

 

Logical conclusion it was containing the DNA of some Organism related to the Xeno, within those Scarabs.....

 

Which means some Xeno related Organism was Sacrificed the same way as the Engineer was in Spaights draft....

 

Another point to mention is in Spaights draft the Sacrificial Engineer took a Cruciform pose before he was consumed by the Nano Scarabs...

 

WHAT DOES A CRUFICORM POSE MEAN.... God? No it does not, the pose of Jesus Christ does not show us Jesus or God, the pose is for one reason ALONE.. to remind us of the Sacrifice that Christ made to save our Souls.....

 

Cruciform Pose thus represents Sacrifice for the greater good... Spaights Engineer made this for the greater Good.... Lindeloffs drafts one did not make such a pose...

 

So onto the Mural, we see a Xeno like Creature in Sacrificial Pose, its Sacrifice for some greater good. Then we have the Urns that contain Goo that somehow passes on Xeno Traits, the one end result was the Deacon at the end that had the most passing resemblance to a Xeno.

 

Logic could suggest thus the Goo in the Urns came from Sacrificing the Xeno related Organism on the Mural. If the Sacrificial Engineer stood within a glass cube or Cryo Pod and consumed the substance he did at the start, and from this Cryo Pod or Glass Cube there was a hole that connected to a plug, could the broken down Engineers Material not be collected in that pipe and then makes its way down where it can be stored.. say in a Jar...

 

Would thus not opening that Jar and pouring contents into the Water Fall not produce the same Result as the Water Fall Scene?

 

Now if we look in front of the Mural there is a Altar, and in the trailers this Altar had the same Sacrificial Bowl from the start of the movie instead of the Green Orb...

 

This would make a connection to my theory...

 

But alas as with a lot of the movie, that had based its work on a lot of ideas and theories that after the movie was Shot and during Editing they had decided to change the ideas and this resulted in a lot of cut/edited and deleted scenes and a whole boat load of mess that makes no sense.

 

They released some Viral Work and Files to try and back up there new Stance, that made in further mess and never added up with what we saw on Screen..

 

Sadly the Engineers as our Gods/creators and visiting Ancient Mankind hence Star Maps angle is well likely to be dropped and our Engineers are just some Ancient Slave Race carrying out some other Agenda by some Nasty and Aggressive Hierarchy. And our Engineers merely never held us in regards and we are just well pawns to something else, that they wanted to replace us with.

 

Some movie Paradise will make because if who ever created or was above these Engineers had the same Agenda, and little care for us, which Ridley hints that don’t care for us, how long is Shaw and David going to last if what they find is a large number of these Godlike beings..

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconDec-09-2014 4:58 PM

As far as the Agenda and the Sometimes to create one must first Destroy...

This is the complicated part that well is sooooooo ambiguous you have to ask did they even know themselves (Writers and Ridley)...

Again the only way to make sense in a way is to again connect Prometheus with Spaights draft.....

Spaights draft these Engineers Seeded their DNA to Evolve life on Earth, and it seemed for a purpose.. to pass on their DNA and the Primate result was Evolution to Mankind....

Did the Engineers known that the Sacrifice would yield Mankind or a Being similar to the Engineers?  We have to assume that to some degree yes...

Ridley suggest these Engineers came back to re-engineer and evolve us over and over, so that the Sacrifical Scene was the start and that they had to carry out other upgrades to us, not only that they also would be linked to the ones who taught mankind how to build and make things...   These Engineers thus evolved us not only Genetically but Also Culturally and Technologically.... links to Prometheus Fire Myth...

Thats why we have the Star Maps in various Ancient Cultures with no contact....

Thats why David learned PIE (Proto-Indo-European language) which he was thus able to communicate with the Engineer, if they had not taught Ancient Man that then how did David learn it from Ancient Mankind Teachings..

Lindeloffs draft was similar if not the same as Spaights as far as the Sacrificial Purpose and how the end result = Mankind as just as in Spaights draft we share Engineer DNA we came from them.....

The Sacrificial Scene had Dialog which was cut, and which some has been translated as such that the Elder Engineer told the Sacrificial One that his Soul would be a way back to them... so the Sacrifice had some purpose for their greater good.

We have to then ask... WHY THE SACRIFICAL SCENE... 

Ridley said these Engineers could create life by other means and just this was the way they choose to do it..... this makes little sense apart from if...

THIS PROCESS WAS THE MOST EFFICIENT...  best way to seed their DNA fast.. and over a large area...

Thus we have to ask why was the Goo in the Urns... again as a faster more efficient means of passing on the DNA contained within to seed a world or upgrade its life...

This makes more sense with Spaights draft, as there is a 100% connection between the Urns on LV 223 and the Sacrificial Bowl... and that is that the resulting event after the Sacrifice is kept in the Urns, they contain the DNA of a Sacrificed Organism as a method to pass on its DNA in what the Engineers see as the most EFFICIENT METHOD.

We then look at Spaights Draft again as these Engineers seemed to be experimenting on a whole host of Xeno Related Organisms, indeed the idea was 8 varieties of Xeno, each being slightly different.

But then why was only one kind Stored in the Urns and others in various Egg/Spore Stages that contained various types of Face Huger?

Only solution was that the ones in the Urns was either deemed to deadly to store any other way, or that this Organism they had deemed had been Genetically Engineered to Perfection or indeed to the level that they was satisfied with and thus wanted to then re-weaponize it into the Urns for use to seed its DNA via they MOST EFFICIENT METHOD the Engineers use... thus same as they used to Seed Base life on Earth...

Any connection with Prometheus? well the Mural showed two kinds of Face Huger, and the Deacon on the Mural they seemed to hold in high regard, maybe they was conducting many experiments trying to create something Perfect...

When they achieved that they then proceeded to re-weaponize it into the Urns, i.e Sacrificed it.

Why? Who knows.... this is the biggest question..... to create us took a lot of time and effort, we had evolved to being so close to their own image, they had us worship them as Gods. If they are going the Ancient Astronaught theory way which is what they was... thats a lot of time and trouble to then just replace us with the Xeno or Related Organism...

We have to wonder what purpose the Xeno and related Organisms held.... this is the BIGGEST MYSTREY TO THE ENGINEER CULTURE... one that may not be answered.

I can only maybe come up with that originally we was created from some purpose for the Engineer or their creators, and there was good reason we was created within the image of the Engineers at least.....

We may had ended up a failed experiment, we upset the Engineers, we had grown disserving to them, Ridley hinted they tried to get us back on track by sending a emissary but we killed him... that was last straw..

But then where does the Xeno come into that, if that was the intention all along then why wait thousands of years, surely instead of teach us stuff and have us worship them, if they intended to replace us with the Xeno DNA from the start then why not do it in first place?

Those Urns will not create Xenos in the same way that the Eggs would, what the movie shows is that all life on Earth would be Evolved to take on Xeno Traits, and indeed we may get a whole host of different Organisms that carry Xeno traits and not just traditional Xenos running around creating Eggs etc...

Maybe we was created either by a rogue faction of Engineers, the Engineers who created us did so by stealing the Fire of Creation of the Gods.... was the LV 223 ones those who stole that Fire was they the ones whos ancestors created us, or was they the ones sent to track down the Engineers who seeded us and to clean up the mess and creation.

There is just so much that could be going on....

One theory i have is the Engineers on LV 223 may had been servants to a higher Hierarchy, they was watchers and gardeners and LV 223 was a place that they would upgrade and experiment on life on Earth and then when pleased with the results they would then seed that back on Earth....

This is why LV 223 was Terra-formed to support Mankind as far as a breathable atmosphere.

But at some point these Engineers had came across, or created something and then either that something they came across or created or some experiments on such Organism, led to one of their kind being Face Hugged and Chest Busted...

The Result... these Engineers had given Birth to Life, something they may have lost or never had the ability to do so....

They found this result very interesting and it either produced something they saw as better Evolutionary Path to themselves i.e More Perfect DNA than their own DNA.. or indeed they carried on experiment after experiment on this first finding or creation related to the Xeno until they got the result on the MURAL

THE DEACON.... PERFECTION...

 

These Engineers may had then seen that Seeding the Deacons DNA as more Pure and Perfect that using their own DNA..

Thats my theory on the to create one must first destroy...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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