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nostromo001
MemberOvomorphNov-12-2012 10:15 PMI just got done watching the scene where Charles Holloway in a very disrespectful as cynical tone answers David's question 'Why do you think my makers made me?' with the glib reply,'We made you cause we could.' David replies,'Imagine how dissapointed you would be if YOUR makers gave the same reply?', obviously insulted. We don't really know what David feels or doesn't feel even though is says its marvelous not being able to feel disappointed. Suppose that Dr Holloway then oppologizes to David and answers 'Listen David, truthfully I don't know what you can feel or not but I shouldn't have said that.' or something nice for a change. Would David have decided to choose someone else if Charles had just treated him with compassion and respect, especially given that nobody else seems to treat him well? I wonder if he would have chosen another guinea pig? Its food for thought and it could have resulted in a different outcome for Charles Holloway.
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15 Replies
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Svanya
AdminPraetorianNov-12-2012 10:19 PMFassbender, in an interview, does say "Because he was mean to me" about why David picked Holloway to be the guinea pig. Click-->[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXxzcl_W_os]Prometheus-Noomi Rapace Michael Fassbender-Charlie Rose-Pt 2[/url].
I am assuming IF Holoway had been nicer, he would have been spared.
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cuponator3000
MemberChestbursterNov-12-2012 10:35 PMthat would have given one of the rndom crew members too strong of a part in the movie and mr. lindelof couldnt let that happen
Not a map, an invitation
nostromo001
MemberOvomorphNov-12-2012 11:17 PMRight cuponator but I am just imagining in terms of the story being real rather than controlled by the script writer. Svanya has the answer that I suspect based upon intuition. I'll bet if people treated David better he would have spared them. It seems like he has more feelings than anyone in the story believes. The viral promotional video 'Happy Birthday David' describes him as many things including intellectual and emotional. While that is more a promotional tool, it does seem to explore the possibilities that the David generation 8 synthetic may possess regarding his mind.
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Albert West
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2012 1:08 AMThe character of David is so interesting. It is easy to point the finger and call him a bad man (or android), and that he had hidden agendas that coincided with his evil mind. But was David really evil? Was he really the "bad guy". So many of the characters in Prometheus did questionable things. There was so much emotion in play that lead to irrational thinking and as a consequence, impending doom. Prometheus presents us with characters who are so emotionally charged. Even David expresses some emotion; if only subtle. In the end though, David does get caught up in the excitement when he is with Weyland, communicating with the Engineer. End result: body lying in one spot, head in another.... Like you said nostomo001, real life.... You get a bunch of us and put us in a hostile alien environment it wouldn't be long before all of our collective emotions got our collective butts into a lot of trouble.
So, getting back to the original discussion; if Holloway had been kinder to the android then maybe David would have chosen another test-subject...
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Alien/Prometheus
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2012 3:53 AMThis is a great question, and it could have gone any way. If Holloway would have been nicer David probably would have spared him, but then there would have been a totally different plot line. Someone else would have died, and Shaw possibly wouldn't have had the caesarean as Hollaway might have stopped her. She also might have survived not on hr own but with him, meaning there may have been a dispute as to whether to actually go looking for the things that created the engineers. Also who would David have given it to? There are so many possibilities, but i think Vickers would have been the victim. Seeing as we learnt he actually had a disliking for her when he cut of when entering the room containing the map created by the Engineers, there a liklehood he would have given it to her.
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Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphNov-13-2012 3:56 AMHe would have started singing The Doom Song I betcha ;-)
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"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
nostromo001
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2012 5:20 AMAlien/Prometheus , good point. It is a critical nexis in the plot line. You may be right about Vickers being next in line. But I didn't realize until you said it just how critical that point is. If David spares Charley, then Shaw does not get impregnated as you pointed out and a whole cascade of effects take place like skipping a rock across a pond. The waves circle out in ever increasing ripples. Charles would have played a more central role and would have certainly effected her choice to go looking for Paradise. But I don't think he could or would talk her out of it. He just might have instead gone along to make a team of 3 instead of 2. RS stated that at the end Shaw and David had to survive and go to Paradise. It was up to the writers, DL at this point to make that happen.
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Indy John
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2012 6:18 AM"..I wonder if he would have chosen another guinea pig?.."
Holloway was chosen because he was always antagonoistic toward David judging by several scenes in the movie.
Also olloway was a rival for Shaw's arrention..and that was something David wanted for himself..to become less of boy and more of a man.
I don't think it would have mattered what answer Charlie would give David,,he was going to be a subject for David's experiment.
Holloway was useful to the mission up to this point
..but was now expendable.
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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caenorhabhditis
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2012 6:39 AMHolloway actually calls david "boy" at one point when they first land impatiently demanding to get an investigative expedition underway, which smacks of the way racist white americans talk down to black men as though they were still slaves, which i think must be a deliberate comparison of how robots and in the bladerunnerverse replicants are akin to slaves after all the word robot ['robota'] is ukrainian? (i think) for slave! So theres a definate (IMO) theme being built up of the dangers of humans despite the march of time and technology falling foul of the consequences of getting morally and intellectually lazy and applying our old typical bad behavioural traits in novel ways..... maybe thats why the engineers dont like us, after a few thousand years they picked up on a bad trend of our getting smarter but not wiser, although really they ought to be more patient as a race we are like teenagers we think we know it all but we still behave like children so i guess it comes down to how patient or short tempered the parent[species] is, and how they were dealt with by whoever made them?.... maybe shaw will discover that the true gods she seeks are even worse!
I LIKE WORMS! I LOVE WORMS!
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Cerulean Blue
MemberFacehuggerNov-13-2012 12:21 PM@caenorhabhditis - I do remember Holloway's 'boy' comment to David that he threw out there early after arriving at LV-223! Classic jerk-off is Holloway & that comment was enough for me to be ok with his departure whenever he was to die!
I saw David as envious of Holloway's relationship with Shaw. I think David did not like Shaw putting him in the friend zone behind a pompus jerk like Holloway. Holloway was disrespectful to Shaw & did not like her talking with David about anything! David just pulled a page from the book of Dr. Hanibal Lechter, i.e. - killing due to rudeness!
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Indy John
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2012 1:11 PM"..Holloway was disrespectful to Shaw .."
I have to give this some thought,
Hollloway certainly changed in his demeaner and his contribution to tyhe mission success.
For me he was disrespectful to Shaw during the electrifying Engineer head scene,,swilling booze while Shaw was doing her best to re-animate the head.
And when that failed just sort of left the scene,
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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caenorhabhditis
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2012 3:11 PMi notice a lot of people imagine davids interest in shaw to be of the nature that might incur a jealousy based dislike of holloway, i have the feeling that theres a little wishful thinking a goin on there that the storyline would develop their 'relation status' in future installments but i dont think thats the basis of his curiosity in shaw..... understandable fassbender is attractive but nah (imo).....
I LIKE WORMS! I LOVE WORMS!
nostromo001
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2012 5:45 PMI agree with caenorhabhditis regarding the projected attraction or jealousy by David of Holloway for Shaws affections. He is an androgenous nonsexual being as described by writer Jon S. in the Prometheus commentary (yes I finely got my hands on it and have been watching it all morning). But Holloway did refer to David twice as boy - first when they first arrived and he threw together an expedition and secondly at the pool table and that is very disrespecful and equivalent to racist as caenorhabhditis also pointed out. David lashes back out at him when he starts on him regarding why wear the helmet - another insult, with his comment that he hoped his makers didn't make him too close to humans. HE also derided Holloway's thesis earlier. With all that antagonism its no wonder he went to Holloway first with the black goo.
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nostromo001
MemberOvomorphNov-13-2012 6:48 PMOk now here is the advantage of watching the writers commentary of Prometheus. I just watched the scene where David infects Holloway and Jon Spaihts said that it was written in such a way that Davids behavioral inhibitors where overrode by Holloways response that he would do anything to get the answers that he wanted. Aparently David set up Holloway to say that which would free David to use him like a lab rat which is what he considers humans since he possesses superior intellegence. The fact that Holloway treated him with disrespect targeted him in the first place though as stated in another section of the commentary. This commentary is available on the blue Ray version so you have to either have a bluRay version or a converted version to a more convential format like avi or mp4 so you can watch it on vlc player.
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Indy John
MemberOvomorphNov-16-2012 7:18 AM".. David to use him like a lab rat which is what he considers humans since he possesses superior intellegence. ."
Heck David uses all of the charactors as lab rats..
Now he has Shaw to work his insidious experiments on.
Shaw watch out!
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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