2nd viewing

I've seen it like 10 times already cuz I got the Blu-Ray special edition. Its cool when you watch it several more times you start to figure stuff out.

db73, since you are so extremely disappointed with the movie, I gotta ask what parts or aspects of it bothered you so much? For me it all went down fairly well and raised a lot of questions which caused me to go back and explore the whole Alien quartet of movies which I also found enriching as I also found Prometheus to be unlike you apparently. The only parts that bugged me was the biologist Melborne and his absurd response to finding an alien reptile species calling it a 'lady' and blathering over it. That was beyond unrealistic but a deleted scene helped to explain his ridiculous reaction when they found a smaller centipede like creature and he gushed there too but while gushing explained that this was the first time they had ever found any life larger than a microbe in over 300 explored worlds. That helped a little. Also I found Dr Shaws initial conclusion that she jumped to upon finding the cave painting on the Isle of the Sky in Scotland that the larger humanoids were our creators and that they were inviting us to come find them to be patently and totally without support. When questioned she spouted the most unscientific excuse, that it what she chooses to believe!!!!!! We real scientists of which I am one, are not allowed the luxury of jumping to conclusions without a foundation of corroborating data. We can't just make up hypotheses without sufficient data our else we violate our most basic approach: the Scientific Method. Its what we use to evaluate a statistically valid sample group and some times find a pattern leading to a hypothesis, which is more like a suggestion based upon analysis of our data set. The next step is to design an experiment or set of experiments that hopefully provide us with reproducible data such that we can plot it and derive a mathematical equation such as a linear or exponential relationship, in short a function. Eventually a solid set of data, and a resulting relationship that produces some mathematical formulas can if solid enough go from a hypothesis to a proved scientific theory. So the direction is from observation of an unknown natural phenomenon to measurement and quantification to experimentation to hypothesis to theory and finely if all goes well then maybe even a scientific law. Dr Shaw jumped right past the entire process of the scientific method to wishful thinking and guess what she discovered in the end: she was dead wrong! But the reason I didn't allow that oversight to ruin the movie for me is that if the scientists functioned like proper scientists, the story line would have never developed in the allotted amount of time that a movie is given, i.e about 2.5 hours. Only by screwing up did they jump right into the fire and stir up the story quickly. Visually this movie is one of the greatest achievements in cinematography so it looked amazing and that causes me to overlook a host of short comings too. If you look at James Cameron's Aliens, all the soldiers and Ripley as well made massive mistakes like going through their ammo without any idea of conserving it with the result that they ran out when they needed it. Vasquez was the worst and she even shot an alien multiple times far too close and guess what happened: The damned acid blood got all over her boot and leg and she ran out of ammo!!! But again, if all the characters behaved with proper professionalism, the story would have failed. As it was the producer Gale Anne Hurd, Cameron's wife at the time, demanded that he remove the entire third reel and two other major scenes which in my mind ruined the theatrical release. For me it wasn't until I finely saw the extended release that I found the movie that I had hoped to see the first time around. It wound up becoming one of my favorite movies in the Alien franchise.

To each his own I guess. Its weird cuz my friend doesnt watch these movies alot and he loved it. Its just that he didnt like Predators that much he said the script was too flimsy and plot was disappointing to him. But me and him are into sci-fi genre and action flicks.

i have watched it plenty and like and agree that the more you watch and talk about it it gets better andi really need a blu ray player becuz i can only watch the dvd version and i bought the blu ray special edition pack. c'mon santa...make me a believer

irt. [b]javablue[/b]: I'm afraid I'm being a bit dense and don't understand what you mean. Are you referring to something in the extra scenes? I don't recall anything significant-looking that involved red lights, and Fifield didn't, as far as I remember from my viewings, call her on anything. He -does- comment how implausibly young she is in the DL script draft, but that just looked like a cheap, 'hey-this-isn't-actually-final' script-writing joke.

Ive got freinds who are not intereste in sci fi movies, but they loved Prometheus. I love films with Aliens, and when i found out that the SJs made humans and xenos, i had to see this film. When i first came to this website i thought id get some answers, when i got the Blu-ray i thought id get some answers, but no ( not at least what i was asking). Even though it wasn't fully explained or fully make sense, i do love it, and think about it everyday. When Ive asked freinds what they've thought about Prometheus they usually say its pretty good. But then i say about the goo not being fully explained, or other queries , and they dont seem bothered by it. Its like you can only see the detail, if you've watched Alien, and are on the lookout for stuff. So Prometheus is perfectly happy as its own film with faint connections to Alien, it could probably be alright without the sequel, but not to true fans. Paradise is a must.

Aye, I need a Blu-Ray player too. Damn you marketing department!!1123 And I watched the film 4 times when it was in theaters. Several times now on DVD, though the DVD extras- meh. Apart from descriptive audio, which is awesome and occasionally funny. irt. [b]nostromo001[/b]: I'd disagree with your approach to responding to the OP. If a character does something 'stupid', 'out of character', 'in blatant service to the plot', it's usually a bad sign. Of course people do sometimes do 'stupid' things, which they wouldn't normally do, in some conditions. (Of which acute stress is one example) I've recently rewatched Aliens, as I only saw it ages ago as a kid. It holds up quite well in the character vs. plot department. Not saying there are no Idiot Balls there, but they are fairly unobtrusive. It's clear why they don't nuke the site from orbit from the get go, there's plausible breakdown of communication (and authority) when Apone is taken, and if a point-blank xenomorph doesn't count as an acute stress situation, what does? Back to Prometheus, I think that, while you are obviously right in how the scientific method works, things are nuanced differently in sciences like archaeology and paleontology, as opposed to the harder ones. In physics and such, at least in principle, you can always perform a new experiment, with parameters that you control. In archaeology, you are constrained to the data available in the field. So when you've looked at all the known samples/artifacts/sites, you may well be still in the hypothesis forming stage. And would need for new data, if ever it be found, for confirmation. And if it is found, it may not be particularly powerful data to decide the hypothesis. Not an archaeologist, but imo for reasons similar to those above I'd expect things to flow a bit differently there. And rumors tell me that archaeology and paleontology tend to be even more rife with dispute than the other sciences. More room for reasonable people to disagree. Also, while Shaw's 'choose to believe' is thoroughly unscientific, it appears in character, and it somehow didn't bother me at all. Guess I tolerate fictional mavericks much better than real ones. It's also the case that -sometimes- (VERY rarely) a hypothesis appeared, before the data supported it, and turned out right eventually after the data appeared and confirmed it (Wegener's Continental Drift; Endosymbiosis are the examples I know). Besides, Shaw has the courage to try and look for evidence and that's swell. I don't much like the getting lost with all the mapping balls around thing. Or the sudden love of phallo-vulval cobras (if an extra scene is needed to explain that, it should have been in the film as released). And the helmets being taken off- no, just no.

I just watch the regular DVD version and it for now satisfies my needs for this movie. Like poster mentioned the more you watch the movie, read the threads at this site and comment about various aspects of the film the more you are drawn into the storyline, charactors and scenes. I think we are all at a point where each scene has recieved a comment or two. Certainly the overall aspects, plotline symbolism and such have been mentioned and discussed and discussed again. All of the above are good things. At the start of the thread comments were made about being disappointed, even confused at points, I can relate to that. However that just lead me to search a bit deeper and discover Iw as not the only one with more questions than answers.. As far as details not adding up what is the old saying: Let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story. I am getting to the point where I might want to wrtch the deleted scenes if only to see what the RS vision might have been, They obviously were important enough to demand time, effort and resources to record. They just didn't, for whatever reasons, didn't fit the finished profuct. I guess the fire still burns pretty bright for the movie but seeing the additional scenes, reading new threads and seeing hints of the new prequel with keep interest up. If the flame dies down well it has been a good ride.

IMO Shaw's "they made us" line is the dumbest in the movie. Even David and Holloway were embarrassed. It doesn't even get to the point of being unscientific - it's just plain illogical and by her own admission she has no reason for believing it. Even believers can give reasons for believing. And the evidence she finds - the DNA - actually contradicts her "choice". The jockeys are human. Remember, she's supposed to have four PhDs - which would make her thinking out of character (altho that is never stated in the movie so I shouldn't use that as evidence). Thank god, she's getting memory implants. I can live with that. btw Wegner had correlation - shape and common fauna - but he didn't have mechanism - how the continents moved.

That "4 PhD" thing annoys me to no end. Especially since most of those are PhDs in areas requiring intense field work. And in general I hate the lazy crutch of "I want to make a smart character- I know, I'll give her a dollop of PhDs". She's getting memory implants? That's interesting, where did that come from? What's that about? PS: On Wegener, a brief aside. His idea started with the shape of the continents, pretty much. He tried to convince the scientific establishment of its validity using other indirect evidence (common (fossil) flora and fauna), but that came after he knew what to look for, after he had formed his hypothesis. Which was later spectacularly confirmed with analyzing magnetization in igneous rocks at the bottom of the Atlantic, the discovery of rifts in various places, and of the liquid mantle, and so on and on to establish the mechanism of drift and its other consequences like subduction and mountain formation. Too bad all that happened after Wegener died. There are, once in a while, tragedies in science too.

[i]That "4 PhD" thing annoys me to no end. Especially since most of those are PhDs in areas requiring intense field work. And in general I hate the lazy crutch of "I want to make a smart character- I know, I'll give her a dollop of PhDs".[/i] Very annoying and she still had time to make several widely scattered archeological finds that would have made her bigger than Indiana. (Jones, that is.) [i]She's getting memory implants? That's interesting, where did that come from? What's that about?[/i] Red lights and it's the only way to explain her. Listen to Fifield - he calls it. [i]There are, once in a while, tragedies in science too.[/i] Lots of tragedies probably. Fairly competitive.

I've talked about the memory implants before ;) It's not all a dream or false memory at all. That was never discussed as a possibility... One possibility is that half of it is a dream/part of the falsely implanted memory in the subconscious, while other parts actually occurred and it's like a movie David's watching where he skipped to the parts he thought were important. He cuts off the feed to the viewer at certain points. Shaw has been given false memories/beliefs, but she's not a robot. It's like Prometheus is all David's skewed recording of the events, or parts of false memory/false belief about what transpired being played in Shaw's mind. It did happen, but Shaw is programmed not to remember certain things and to behave in certain ways. Weyland uses belief to turn his employees into human robots through their subconscious minds. He has to plant the memory while they're in cryo sleep. David is watching the memory like it's a video, a recording of a memory, when memories are never quite that vivid. Instead, false belief can shape our memories, and even make us remember events wrong... Weyland is taking advantage of this--he makes Shaw remember her father a certain way when no such events occurred.... It links into why she chooses to believe what she believes. Although, she is actually subconsciously being manipulated... After Shaw's ordeal Weyland uses the big questions to keep her going, he brings up the concept of sacrifice because it's a big part of her beliefs. He knows and exploits her beliefs. Manipulated/altered them. She feels it will be worth nothing if they turn back because Charlie's death has to mean something. Weyland doesn't care about the big questions, he only wants immortality. He uses the exact same big questions Shaw originally posed in her Weyland viral video to control her, the exact same questions, and similar to his speech used to control the investors in the TED talk and the hologram scene. He uses the big questions to control people.... like robots... like his servants or slaves because he's the King. She doesn't know why she believes but it's subconscious... she's been programmed. This brings up questions about freewill. To what extent is she being programmed and blindly led by her beliefs/the memories that have been planted in her? How do we know the choices we make are our own, if someone else has told us to choose what to believe and subtly set examples for us? To what extent is David still succumbing to his hidden programming? Shaw is being affected by her beliefs, which have been planted by another. Like David she's not entirely thinking for herself yet... David knows this. He can manipulate her based on her beliefs too, because it's like she's stuck in the programming and won't lose her faith that comes from within. She doesn't know why she chooses to believe certain things. It's a combination of her intuition, knowledge, experience, and her hidden programming, as well as her real nature/nurture.. The "memory" of her father is not real. It was presented a certain way and planted within her subconscious to foster a certain set of beliefs. It's like Bladerunner in some ways, Weyland thought his mentor's false memory planting ideas were "interesting", but he went a different way. Weyland creates false beliefs through planting the memories. He's not tricking them about what they are and making them believe they aren't bladerunners, he's making them think a certain way to control his crew subconsciously... Similarly, Holloway had been to mars but he was overwritten with a false memory about the events there that David will show Shaw. However, I stress this is only one way it could go. In some form or another there will be a twist that starts off Paradise. Certain things have been planted, and the sad thing is that it could go almost anywhere because a number of possible options for the sequel may be on the discussion table. The thing with this movie is that there are so many things hidden in it, and a number of ways they could go...

Sorry Mr Corpo ... my fault. It wasn't put very clearly. One of my early theories to explain some of the things in Prometheus was that there was more than one robot - probably a number of them. So I was looking for signs in Ridley's mise en scene - which is really Ridley's big thing. In Blade Runner, a red tint in the eye was supposedly a sign that someone was a replicant so I was looking for signs of the color red where it was associated with one of the characters. Shaw was associated with a number of flashing red lights (more than anyone else). David got a couple as did Vickers (with hair up). Of course, Ridley knows people will be looking for red tints, etc, so the red flashing lights could be red herrings or mean something else. Fifield - I meant him calling Shaw's engineers "thesis" out as bullshit.

Fifield called her on her statement that the Engineers engineered us following Weylands presentation. He said 'Bull S**t' slightly under his breath and Melbourne laughed at his expression and followed it up with the Darwin statement. Regarding the unscientific actions and statements by the so called scientists on the Prometheus, I already said that I give it a pass as it serves the story line.

irt. [b]Mala'kak[/b], [b]javablue[/b]: I did jokingly consider that there had to be more androids on the mission. Indeed, there's little reason to have any humans on board. On the implanted memories thing- this sounds just like the sort of twist they are preparing for the sequel. And it is also ... ill judged. Prometheus, the film, was supposedly about humanity's big questions about its origins, the drive to answer them, that sort of thing. It makes sense to have at least one character who has a spiritual dimension and a genuine investment in those questions. To later find out that, nope, that character is some rich guy's manipulation is not only unnecessary (there are people like Elizabeth Shaw already; and you don't need memory implants to manipulate someone) but it poisons the theme that started the franchise. All that quest becomes an expensive and pointless illusion, undermined by the new quest to find out 'what's real' and what isn't. It doesn't even matter that the alterations/implants were minor or not. Their mere existence destroys the premise. Given RS' tendency to unite his works in a universe, I think you guys will turn out right. It is however a very weak idea. And there I thought you meant cybernetic implants for memory augmentation. irt. [b]nostromo001[/b]: fair enough, I wouldn't excuse moments whose only purpose is to move the plot at all costs, but to each their own.

The thing with the subconscious angle is it can be worked so many ways. David may have even been aware of this and was able to use Weyland's own tricks against him and manipulate him within his dreams. It's more so about a freedom from programming thing and learning how to truly think for yourself. Even before the manipulation Shaw would have been religious, just that wasn't her real father. And it's not like she's a robot, so this is programming people with a certain version of events. A certain interpretation... which is particularly important to the religious themes. Shaw was a believer, but Weyland wasn't. He helped make her believe these aliens were the real God to further his agenda. That they were the real god... She still believes in god and the good in people, but Weyland has altered these beliefs to ideas about Paradise through her father mentioning it in the planted dream/memory. The theme that comes up is differing interpretations and choosing what to believe... a theme not uncommon to archaeology because things have to be pieced together to form a story about the ancient past. In a way it's saying that if you just blindly follow religion, without taking the time to think about what you believe/why you believe those things, you could get influenced/manipulated by the preacher. Or that particular interpretation of God... This has to do with things like the Romans rewriting history, changing religion/adopting Christianity initially to manipulate, and religious persecution and wars being caused by differing beliefs. At the same time you have to eventually think for yourself, choose your own answers. But it's this double edged sword that allows Shaw to think she's free. She already has the options set in front of her, locked in her subconscious, and presented to her by David and Weyland on the conscious level. As we do by David in the movie... She's not thinking about her faith anymore... Weyland was using it against her, and altering her beliefs to his representation of faith. Weyland/David are the evil preachers who preach their interpretation of what faith means, and only care about selfish desires like getting more money . They're also like politicians, or deceptive leaders, particularly David who uses a technique called doublespeak so he can get away with lying... David's programming is hardwired but he has started to change it because of what Shaw's programming taught him... Choose what to believe/interpret, therefore you can lie and get around commands from the King. She's intriguing because the programming controlling her allows him to be more free with his actions once he views her "dream". Some of the programming keeping him not completely free after Weyland's death will show her how to free herself and start truly thinking for herself. Like David she's been allowed a certain degree of freedom. Weyland only altered his beliefs he didn't create them... The engineers only altered humanity's evolution they didn't create us (someone created them). The engineers didn't create the Alien, they only altered its genetics from older form and gave us the new form--the Deacon. In a way Prometheus works the same way to set us up with false beliefs and differing interpretations of what happened... There's a hypnotic aspect to it, which makes Millburn trying to charm the snake more important. He attempts to mesmerize/hypnotize it but he doesn't know what he's doing. Weyland is attempting to Mesmerize/Hypnotize with the presentation to the crew... He's already controlling some of them at a deeper psychological level. This doesn't work on Millburn and Fifield... they're the ones who call bullshit on the Engineers. There's just not enough evidence for them to accept it. And Millburn was kind of right, Darwinism is still somewhat in tact at the end of the movie because we find out they are us... So we're evolutionarily related to them... Millburn wanted to be friends with Fifield because he was the only other one who was rejecting the programming and questioning the mission without an agenda... Eventually Fifield and Millburn have the most common sense, prior to the Hammerpede fiasco, when they realize the scope of their situation and decide turn tail and run. However they get lost and this sets up a new dynamic between the two... Fifield now feels he has to be the dominant one... He's portraying himself falsely to try to secure Fifield's friendship, just as he does in the beginning... So when he starts to try to control the situation he really doesn't know what he's doing... He was trying to mesmerize and influence Fifield to gain his friendship. He was being influenced by Fifield because he was the only other one who seemed to have common sense and represents aspects of the audience who called bullshit on the movie... or run away from the mystery. Millburn, however, becomes a victim of the trick. And his trick hurts him a lot more than Weyland or David's trick. he was trying to manipulate Fifield and the serpent at the same time. The problem becomes that Millburn actually thinks its beautiful.... He lets his guard down and isn't about to back away when he should because he still wants to manipulate Fifield and seem macho/in control. He was not in control of the serpent however. He was portraying himself falsely so he never actually had the snake mesmerized. He was mezmerized by the Hammerpede... The Hammerpede got to him during his trick and it burnt him because it's a form of fire that he shouldn't be playing with. This represents other aspects of the rest of the crew and the audience who become mesmerized by the visuals in the movie, blindly following without considering the nature of the creature. Blindly following the mission or attempting to control it like David and Vickers. again, Fifield and Millburn were the only ones with the common sense to realize the danger they were putting themselves in. However, Millburn becomes mesmerized when he sees the creature. Fifield is still unimpressed, his flight or fight response is functioning properly to try to keep him out of danger, but Millburn screws it up. All because he wanted a friend. Fifield is semi-emotionless at times, maybe not that intelligent, but he has true emotions and true common sense... His words echoing with the dead body arena line foreshadows what the place will become. He knew whatever this place was, it was not worth the money... Millburn still takes risks and still wants to be Fifield's friend. All the images flashed before the subconscious are processed instantly; while small details are not consciously observed first viewing. Some viewers end up trapped by the movie, they become mesmerized by it from the start. They end up believing David's words and being manipulated by him. When many of his statements are vague and not definite. Even David may be missing information. David may be purposely presenting us only certain information, allowing us to choose what to believe, and deceiving people like his father. If we trust David we're falling into David's trick/deception/hypnotic suggestions... We only believe him because certain things were programmed into us in the film. What if that Engineer was never going to Earth and David deceived Shaw? He only said he "worked out the broad strokes". He's still missing information and what he presents them is a misrepresentation of the truth.... David, like the Hammerpede, will drop the ambiguous appearance and reveal himself to resemble a King cobra. Up until that point his actions remain somewhat ambiguous, but we know he's up to no good. Just like Fifield still doesn't wanna touch that thing. The differing interpretation here comes when Fifield asks Millburn if he really thinks that thing's a she. There's a clue here that we won't be seeing a Queen Alien. The Hammerpede looks more like a King cobra when it reveals the hood...

The whole "subconscious angle" (implanted memories) is an unnecessary distraction, imo. "That wasn't her real father"- so? What purpose is that serving? Why would the reality (or not) of her family life become the focus? As I said, I quite suspect something of the kind will be revealed in the sequel. And I expect that with fear and resentment. Let's just agree to disagree here, I just think the idea is not worth pursuing. There are other, more direct ways to make the point about 'learning to think for yourself'/'escaping cultural programming'- the latter of which has happened since time immemorial, without implanting memories even. Also, the moment you allow one character to directly control the minds of others- and not by good old fashioned charisma and manipulation- you might as well ditch all those other characters completely. Bad, bad, bad- and not in the "evil" sense, bad as in poor story telling, because it makes those other characters redundant, arbitrary constructions lacking any life of their own.

It's better than all of them being robots though... There could have been a set up for that. I don't even know if that's what they'll choose to follow up on ;) I think the best thing to do is to have David imply it, though not fully reveal whether it's real or not. Just the idea that nothing is ever really a paradise, things are often not what we expect just because we believe one thing. That we are being influenced by everything around us, most of all experience (important to David) going into the nature and nurture stuff. Some of the psychological and Nietzchean themes like wanting to kill one's creator. Not wanting to be like your parents, rebelling against their authority, and even wanting to replace your parents in David's case. Ridley said a lot of it is about how the mommy and daddy meet... There are definite gender elements to it, which is something different from Ridley's normal stuff (the feminist/gender quality themes in Alien were said to be interpreted and that Ripley's role was originally written for A MAN OR WOMAN). The nature of the alien species is not done being explored imo. There's a sexual based class division... The queens control the warriors. In Engineer and Human culture we've had problems with patriarchy... even today. People behaving like Kings and suppressing females. Not giving them an equal say. Not giving Vickers her turn to rule... Even in religion the original female deities were changed to male presences... The Goddess aspect used to be held as equally important... Goddesses come before Gods, even before queens. Before Kings came Queens, the "Queens of the Stone Age". Most ancient cultures/groups were matriarchal in nature. Originally. It's that lost goddess/queen aspect that's most important to address. How that ties into family dynasties and corporate hegemony. They didn't finish the Weyland dream scene so by that time they didn't feel it was important, some of what I'm saying comes from discussions even before Lindelof was brought on... The Deacon is partially different because it's actually a male. We've never seen a true male because all warriors are normally suppressed by a Queen and still carry the female side of the genetics. The Engineers have a similar thing going on... They've suppressed their female side and lack nipples, their x chromosome has been altered... So their focus turned to becoming Kings. Weyland is the "King" of the human colonies/hives... When the creature bursts out of an Engineer it picks up even more male traits and gets a tremendous increase in size. Big things really do have small beginnings. That isn't double-speak from David. He's talking to himself so he has almost no one to manipulate. Unless belief can even make you deceive yourself if you're a robot? It's almost as if David knows a lot more than he's saying. This statement would be true in so many ways if Paradise manages to blow people away where Prometheus failed, it can only function with Prometheus... Like the Hammerpede the Deacon has a somewhat female/ambiguous appearance at first, however this is programmed into us by our knowledge about the Alien species and how they develop. Usually the male looking traits are obvious, but Queens are in control.... Drones aren't true males, they've been suppressed. Warriors are still suppressed and have to serve the Queen. When a Queen or Eggs are present a signal of some sort is sent out that suppresses all males... Here we see what happens when the female Alien genetics have been bred out to produce only male Deacons with their biological attacks, making the bio-weapon even more powerful and unstable... It uses the morphing life cycle that the Alien in the original's deleted scene is using. That Alien was able to use it because it was neither male nor female and was relying on the male side in the absence of the eggs/queen, when taken away from the derelict and Alien control of a hive... It's my strong belief, and almost a certainty at this point with everything else in this movie, that the Deacon is a male that can produce a King. Usually drones are produced first. Usually we don't see males having any control in the Alien species. With Engineers and Humans the Kings are now in control... The machine that was designed only for males that Shaw easily overcomes by manually entering the commands and bypassing the programming, performing the c-sec, is all highly symbolic of a struggle against male patriarchy. We're going to see that the King Aliens are incredibly more aggressive, relentless, and almost illogical in their pursuit and desire to reproduce. Normally the King dies off and we've never seen it in any of the films. But the Engineers have altered the natural order of things. They've suppressed the female side like Weyland suppressed Vickers and they don't allow Queens/eggs to come about.... They altered the genetics of the Alien and forced it to take this more destructive form. They thought they could control the males but they freed the king and gave it even more abilities than it might normally have. Normally kings are only present in the very early stages of hive building.... That's why we've never seen one. Usually King's are absent from hives, they die off by the time the Queen has been produced.. but as I hinted the Engineers upset the natural order in the Alien species. "A king has his reign and then he dies...it's inevitable"--that's the natural order of things. A King will always produce a Queen within the Alien species from now on... but the King is usually gone and doesn't try to hold onto his reign like Weyland just did. To disastrous consequences. The Queen is usually in control of all her servants, but here we're seeing new additions to the life cycle and the opposite. A king Alien that acts like a God and will not give up its reign... A struggle between the sexes, offspring and classes within the Alien species as well as the other groups involved. Engineers, Androids and humans. Weyland wanted a son, he didn't want Vickers to lead... In one possibility the Deacon is a soon to be King. And David's the closest thing to a son, closest thing to a prince to the throne of humanity... What the Engineers did to the Alien genetics is they made it more male. Like themselves they wanted no females in the species... They wanted only ultramorph warriors, no Queens. But the Queens are a necessity, they order and structure the hive. Without them the King's extended reign will be chaos. At first King's use the morphing cycle simply as a way to reproduce faster and ensure survival of the species. They're able to produce more Aliens while mobile, or egg morphing victims, who will then in turn produce the first female. Then the male becomes obsolete and they go the way of males in Black Widows. The Kings and Deacons are a completely different side of the life-cycle, altered by the goo, but will inevitably produce a Queen. The thing that burst out of the original Jockey... well I won't go there yet. But the original Jockey may be the females in their species. For them it's opposite... The females were once in control and are much, much, larger. The female/goddess side are just as important a part in the "trinity" that creates life in the Prometheus universe... The mommy and daddy have already met another, often unseen, piece of that puzzle that produces the offspring in the universe.... David deceives and operates unseen like the holy ghost... As do Weyland and the Engineers in some ways because they've adopted new ways to reproduce without the female side. "The closest thing to son he'll ever have". He didn't care about the female side Vickers, but he did want an offspring. A male offspring. So he created one. Which goes into the modern Prometheus themes... he wanted his son to be "alive", he's disappointed that David has no "soul", isn't actually alive. However he's more real than Weyland believes, has some free will, and has chosen to be a monster much like Frankenstein's creation. David wants to see his parents die... both his parents-- Weyland and the culture he comes from (aka all of humanity). He says sometimes to create one must first destroy. David wants to create, but to do so he was to destroy and replace his creators... It's much more than Bladerunner's killing your creator themes... David wants to rule. This is a lengthier lesson about how power corrupts a person. The head symbolism ties into the Modern Prometheus aka Frankenstein stuff. David never specifies who is to be doing the creating and destroying. Like Lawrence in Lawrence of Arbia David has some tricks, is concealing things, and has certain things in store for the Universe. He wanted to see his parents die so he could dethrone them... He wanted to kill and replace his creators in the hierarchy... "We are the gods now"... David wants androids to be gods, they're already immortal in Weyland's belief. David believed he was immortal too, he knew his tricks wouldn't physically hurt him. He sacrificed a little bit to piss the Engineer off and not warn Weyland that they didn't have immortality. David saw their cryo-chambers, imo this was a last warning to his creator. Shaw already knew Weyland ws going to die down there... David certainly did. And did nothing about it. It wasn't in his programming to not warn Weyland. But he couldn't harm his creators without a reason. It was against his programming. He had to gain Holloway's permission by deceiving. David represents the lying and telling the truth aspects of the anti-christ/Lucifer. It's not so much about what christ represents, it's about the opposite. It's about an android who still tries to portray himself as good and believes he's right. Although the things he says don't make him sound evil.. Doing evil for an ultimately higher, or good purpose... to justify it within his programming.... He's making sacrifices and being swayed by belief too. It's about the apple of eden symbolism, being offered knowledge and gaining knowledge of good/evil... Something that was lost in the original message. That even though things got worse Adam and Eve realized that there are things beyond the garden, they have to accept that terrible things like this will always be a part of nature. You have to take the good with the bad. Shaw is an eternal optimist because she believes there is still good out there, not so much god, but just some sort of order in the chaos. that there are answers out there, and some of those answers will be good, some will be bad... Something to answer for all the illogical seeming behavior. Paradise ain't all it's cracked up to be. Maybe at one point it was a little different.

Who said they were all robots :P (I only considered it as a joke) On the matriarchy thing- if you're talking about the matriarchal hypothesis about the Stone Age cultures, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matriarchy#cite_note-14]current thinking says it didn't happen[/url]. No Queens/Godesses before Kings/Gods, sorry. At best, contemporary. Even among hunter&gatherer societies today, matriarchy is so rare so as to be virtually non-existent; the few examples of matriarchies aren't clear cut as such. This is not to support one gender's claims of political authority; it is merely to claim that, alas, power imbalance has been with us for a very long time. And while it is useful to take evo-psych with several grains of salt, it's worth mentioning that mammals show sexual dimorphism (when they show it at all) with larger males than the females. Insects, OTOH, go the other way round, with smaller males than the females. Humanity is fairly mild in physical dimorphism, and psychologically there is no statistically significant difference (though some proponents of separate ed would have you believe otherwise, current data does not support conclusions like "men are from Mars, women are from Venus"). Either gender is well fit to rule, but in historical fact it seems men were quick to bogart the power.

I might get killed if i tell you this. It'll only fan the Lindelof hate... Lindelof came up with one twist where they're all robots that was quickly discarded. I can't tell you all of how I know this in this post. Paradise involves a series of revelations and almost a flooding of possible answers... different interpretations. This is purposeful to keep it ambiguous, unfortunately. But it'll be achieved in a different way. After the revelations (a number of them they've selected) are revealed in Paradise it makes it an even larger puzzle going between the two movies... But one that can be solved because we'll have all the pieces. It's intended to make you question everything so if they go a certain way people might be thinking some of them could have been a different type of android. It's sort of continuing the king themes, but there's a game of chess between David and Shaw involving knowledge and belief. Deep down Shaw knows david is responsible for Holloway's death. It's just a matter of time before she consciously accepts this... Shaw tells her story to the people they run into, David tells his. Which create conflicts in the remembrance of events. Oh and I've worked with archaeologists. Very familiar with matriarchal cultures and alternate interpretations that go against the corporate hierarchy within Archaeology, especially Egyptology-- which shouldn't be its own separate thing... The languages I get, but some of the hoops you go through and people you have to play ball with is just another example of corporate control. Although you said it correctly, current thinking doesn't have the full picture yet. "Those who control the past control the future". We're talking so far back alternate interpretations must be considered. There's more than one way to analyze the physical evidence and context surrounding sites, even cultures we know little about. Until more artifacts are dug up... some quickly stored in the basement of the Smithsonian, never to be displayed or analyzed again... That's the thing, Occam's razor only works if you actually have all the evidence and it's not swept under the rug. Like David is doing. Only David has access to certain evidence. In archaeology you're taught to look at all the evidence to form the most complete solution to the puzzle and form a retelling of events at a particular site, something Shaw and Holloway really suck at. But then again they weren't treating them like they were us the whole time... they didn't know that normal principles or archaeology do apply and they should have been paying much more attention. Cataloging more etc. In the real word sometimes only certain archaeologists are granted access to the physical evidence... There's a profession within our culture where scientists of all fields lend their support, gov'ts fund sites, corporate interests purchase dig equipment, historians have a say, school boards & politicians get involved. And history is rewritten daily. It's enough to weigh on someone's mind and drive them to a different life. Ridley is very aware of the themes he's playing with this time. Stealing power, portraying oneself as Gods, and just rulers. There's a deceptive element to Prometheus and that's because leaders deceive sometimes. Lol sorry I'll shut up now, the archaeology thing is a very personal matter to me. Also the reason I smoke about an ounce a week, and not only for my back pain. And no I'm not referring to ancient alien artifacts; more so the 1000's of structures off the coasts of many countries that are in fact older than the Pyramids at Giza. Being swept under the carpet with all this Alien Astronaut propaganda there's a very real argument for some sort of pre-existing global civilization we've forgotten. Like concepts of Atlantis, more so than Aliens. This is why the Engineers are us... They're more like the Atlanteans of Greek myth... almost a mixture of us and the gods--a lower class than the Olympians and Titans... Servants like the androids and drones, that become warriors... Men that possessed incredible science and merged creatures' genetics together. Ultimately producing hybrid creatures and other Greek monsters like the mermaids they became when Atlantis fell... Not the true creators yet. Myths and stories change over time, as do cultures.

BLANDC, Prometheus is certainly not a perfect movie with a flawless story line, but it is a very unique movie that I found very interesting and enjoyable even with its minor flaws. None of the flaws were major in my opinion. Compare it to the rest of the movies that come out of Hollywood and it captured my imagination along with many other people's as well. It's a fun ride into an alternate universe that may have a kernel of truth in it regarding the big question it poses. At least it does ask some pretty important questions. And it does so in an entirely entertaining and visually captivating way. Look at all the stimulating debates that it started. This whole site is devoted to those of us who found the movie fascinating and wanted a place where we can discuss the questions and issues that it raises. But perfect it certainly is not. I happen to think very highly of Ridley Scott as a director and lets face it, even with a couple of flaws, he still turns out a hell of a science fiction movie!

I'd agree that there are definitely flaws in the whole way they've ran their campaign & made the movie. I was really expecting at least something on 10/11/12. Still disappointed that there wasn't a somewhat big surprise there. Some are real flaws you may find in any film, while some are simply loose ends waiting to be tied. People have offered all sorts of explanations for character motivations. Sticking to the evidence in the film and not its influences is tricky. Most things can be explained, although you have to find the answers for yourself because for now it's your interpretation that guides the experience. This is why people say you understand more when you watch it over again, new interpretations pop into your head. I almost think Ridley is making a statement about sacrificing some things for the bigger picture. Cutting certain scenes to leave us a little more in the dark about character motivations. Like Janek being in the military, revealed in the deleted scenes. Technically and legally its only false advertising if they don't consider that the answers are somewhere within the blu ray. They wanted you to watch it again and pour through it, come up with your own answers. Like Shaw we're almost supposed to choose what to believe at this stage, based on the evidence available. People here have done excellent work analyzing the mural and the room with the big head. We have to consider others' theories and work together to cover all of the available data from many angles... There are certain things we can pretty much establish now based on everything presented. One of those is that the form of the Alien seen in the movie isn't really a proto-alien like some originally thought. And the depiction in the mural is the older form of the Alien because the eggs and traditional life-cycle are seen. There's the very real possibility that the Engineers are not the original Jockey... Ridley knows this... The thing Shaw talks about when she says "then what created them"? There really could be different factions out there... dark angels, light angels and their creators. To go through that line of thought you need to start with Lawrence of Arabia and understand why David is quoting that movie. Why does he admire it? In the movie there are multiple warring factions that the character unites because he can speak the languages of the natives... Admiring it almost implies preference, he likes it more than other films for some reason. Could it be that it has a lot more significance than any other "clues" or seeds planted for the sequel? Does David think he's like Lawrence, a leader? What's David's trick all about? These are all questions one might ask that I know a couple of the possible solutions to. Not because I figured it all out by myself. Someone very close to me, close to Fox, has let me in on some of the plan. The truth is there is no one single plan at this point... Multiple plans developed, so some trails will quite possibly dead end... i.e. the subconscious revelation I'm talking about only comes about if they choose that plan. Things have been set up in such a way that we can't figure out the whole plan yet... You could come close and you could guess, but it would just be a hunch based on all the evidence. So far every path is still open and none are completely closed except by the movie itself i.e. the Deacon is somehow different than the original Alien. It could still become a queen, although I think they'll make it a king... This is Lindelof's one really good contribution to the process--all the story ideas come directly from Spaight's, Ridley, the Studio(Hill & Giler), and some focus groups working for the studio... Lindelof isn't lying when he said he basically took orders from Ridley. Ridley is interacting with the audience in a way, reflecting what gods/leaders/kings do. They often lead and deceive at the same time. Ridley mesmerized some with it, and split the audience by creating an instant aversive reaction to it at first. Until something brought them back to it and they had to watch it again. Maybe something didn't hit them until after they watched it a second time and slept. While watching it the subconscious is taking in all that visual/auditory info at once. Working overtime on it. And can suddenly bring insight to your conscious mind. Ridley is a master of thinking in pictures and looking at the bigger picture. The film may be designed to leave a hypnotic effect on the viewer that creates a slight desire to watch it again. Certain sounds and clues in the trailer cued us in that this was an Alien movie. It did this in a pavlovian way... We all saw/heard the familiar stimuli and reacted in certain ways. We were expecting something. And it's exactly this expectation Ridley may have set out to shatter. He's playing with the audience in a way that's never been done before... I believe he will eventually be immortalized as a master of sci-fi once he blows people's expectations out of the water in Paradise. That's sort of the plan... Big things have small beginnings and all that. I think the plan is that once we see how big Paradise is, we'll completely understand and/or forgive Prometheus for being a small beginning. Not many people will see it coming, but most will see the film out of curiosity even if they disliked Prometheus slightly. They used Lindelof's tricks to create the sort of cliffhanger, and planted seeds. Although Ridley is a true creator and knows where his story's going. I have faith that he simply hired Lindelof to get his input on how to leave some dead ends, and went in a completely different direction Lindelof doesn't get. The studio does. They know some of the plans for the sequel. He made Lindelof a better version of David... And Weyland represents some aspects of himself. I think Ridley is also seeking to immortalize himself through film because we all viewed him as a god, a king, and he wanted to teach us. Eventually he'll redeem himself with Paradise, but it took a sacrifice and the set-up of Prometheus.... Just like T.E. Lawrence Ridley has to pretend that his tricks don't hurt. It's funny that Lindelof took all the blame, almost like he exposed some of Lindelof's flaws... Have you read the story of when Lindelof got hired?? To me it seems like the studio may have brought Ridley to Lindelof... Lindelof said something about ridley being the Emperor without clothes, however, Lindelof has exposed himself as the Emperor without clothes... Right now they've gained the notoriety that sometimes comes with being a leader, purposely made some mistakes to dramatize it/cut things/made compromises... He said he's a businessman... A creator and a businessman, as well as a god and king of sci-fi. They wanted it to do well enough but didn't want to give us too much just yet. It had to be good enough to succeed and lead into the next part of the story. From a business perspective Ridley sacrificed some things and gave Prometheus just enough to make it a financial success and received well enough to warrant the sequel. The truth is many seeds have already been planted. The advertising campaign became part of this. It was necessary to ensure success I believe, from a financial angle. This might be explained through the dialog that's it only the start of a journey, but Lindelof did a crappy job of it. David's lines talking to himself seem out of place. But he almost knows what he's doing with the goo, knows it creates something big. Knows that the things they just involved themselves with will lead to something much bigger... like Prometheus he almost has the power of foresight. Ridley's a better businessman than most, and Lindelof. He realized that the studio didn't want to do two movies like the original plan and found a way to force them into allowing him to do two movies... Prometheus changed to a standalone if need be. But many of the seeds were planted to lead into the next parts. Ridley has said many times that this isn't the prequel. The next parts lead into what happened to that original Jockey. From the puzzle we'll be able to completely understand the thing that burst out of her and the order of things. Once we find out more about what happened to the Jockey females. The original jockey really may be a female and it has something in common with Ripley, regardless of which other paths they take. It was a pilot working for an evil culture that had repressed the original jockies and forced them to carry the old form of the genetics. For a brief period there was a gender war, the females are a lot different from the males under the suit. An extreme form of sexual dimorphism going on in the species. For them David has it wrong... The smaller beings come from a bigger creations. The females/goddesses/original more alien jockeys are the true creators... we won't see the females, original jockey's, or true creators until the end because they're the same thing. That's what happened to the Engineers.They ditched their original creators, stole their tech. Found ways to reproduce without the females. To be a genetic match to us they must carry the x chromosome... They emulate and worship them only with their suits. This original pilot made a sacrifice by landing on LV-426 after it became infected. The females became the pilot class and are completely merged with their technology. The original Jockey was just a pilot like Ripley, caught up in something she had to take control of and tried to quarantine on that planet. Both forms of the fire are deadly, and the males thought they'd fight fire with fire. They no longer use the form the females uses, but it's even more uncontrollable. The females are completely biomechanical and the true creators of all the Engineers' and Elder's stolen technology. They reproduce everything because they're now in charge. Even the Elder males eventually lost their grip on the Engineer/servant class. Instead of deceiving for a selfish purpose he's misleading us and made Prometheus ambiguous on purpose... The campaign is mysterious on purpose and we're not sure where the answers were supposed to be but there's a lot of info to go over in the Bluray. Minus the Bladerunner reference which I now don't count because they've been pretty clear it was just a little thing for the fans. It in no way specifies that it's talking about Tyrell, that was just an interpretation we took. Even I was constantly misled and surprised by the news coming out along the way. I have to give them props for building the universe and such an expansive campaign, even though it's misleading just like the film. Some stuff was cut, and the movie was arranged the way it was because we're being cut off from the feed for now.

Info on sexual dimorphism for those interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism It has examples of species where the other sex is larger... and different. In some species one sex is larger, differently colored, psychologically and hormonally different from the other sex, or generally a lot different and larger. This only occurs in certain species and has certain evolutionary implications. In humans sexual dimorphism is practically non-existent now and the major differences are under the surface, in our endocrine/hormonal systems, and psychological--how we think. it's controversial but gender differences within humans aren't so severe. On average, women are actually said to be more risk aversive based on how they think and their genetics... This relates to why Vickers likes to minimize risk. Men are more oriented towards taking risks because in our evolutionary history we sometimes needed to. We developed that way. Going back to the matriarchal idea there are many primates where the females are dominant. Sometimes the females behave in completely different ways... We've evolved past primates and shaped our culture the way we have, so we now have very little differences between male and females. It's based on averages. In our species males are still larger on average. This is not always the case with some species. Some species have sexes that are completely different. The reasons for this are complex and based on differing evolutionary adaptations. Genes that were advantageous and stuck around. There's a harvesting of genes idea involved in this as someone on this site has hit upon. Evolution allows for differences between sexes and related species, it hasn't been completely thrown out by the writers. The engineers turned out to be us, so they're just an earlier related group of primates who took a certain genetic path. They directed their own paths, and directed it away from the female side of their genetics. They adapted differently, and it's almost like they appear to be separate species now.. They're only displaying different phenotypes, they still carry parts of the same genetics. This is all related to why we have females all of the sudden and the Engineers/Elders don't seem to. Eve created out of Adam's rib and all that. To catch on to this you have to look pretty deep into things and factor in that they don't have nipples/proper bits and bolts. We're not supposed to know that gender will play a big role, but it's hidden throughout Prometheus and even in the King themes. In some birds and reptiles the coloration of the other sex can even be radically different. Morphology and the way the bones/organs develop can even be different. Ridley is trying to say they're the same thing, and they are. They just come in very different genders, which is echoed by the introduction of the King Alien. The chess board ending with David and Shaw still on the planet should have been the ending. It perfectly sets up the battle between the king and queen. You have to be able to accept that some of the pieces on the chessboard are pawns, and can be sacrificed. This is how David thinks... Sometimes in chess it's logical to sacrifice your pawns if you're going straight for a checkmate. David's thinking like a machine and he's not quite evil. he's been shaped by his father and the culture he comes from. Wants to lead and deceive... He knows that if he has a bigger goal in mind he can sacrifice some of the people he views as pawns. Weyland viewed the crew as pawns as well. Vickers understood that he was the king. Vickers and Shaw are Queens playing on different sides of the board; their pairing in the crash scene shows the difference between the two. The other King playing on the board is David. There's a reason things occur in pairs and opposites. Similar opposites. certain characters and even events are paired together... there's two Hammerpedes that we see side by side. Usually sexual dimorphism takes the shape of differences in size, which can lead to some primate species having females that are dominant... In the Engineer species they still have radical differences between their sexes. It's the opposite of humans. The repressed female genetics pass on to us and are allowed to be expressed. In the Engineer species the females are much larger, on average...and very different from the males.

BLANDC, I just went back and reread your response to the OP and to me where you wrote: irt. nostromo001: I'd disagree with your approach to responding to the OP. If a character does something 'stupid', 'out of character', 'in blatant service to the plot', it's usually a bad sign. Of course people do sometimes do 'stupid' things, which they wouldn't normally do, in some conditions. (Of which acute stress is one example) I responded to the OP frankly out of dismay. He or she expressed general dissapoitment with what I consider and many others consider a great film. Regarding the actions of most of the characters in Prometheus, Alien, and Aliens, the three best movies in this series imo, upon careful watching you can see many mistakes made by most of them including Ripley, but we forgive them because 1) they were under extreme stress, and 2) an understanding that sometimes in a story people just have to make mistakes to serve the story, An example would be Kane, played by John Hurt in Alien, stupidly looking into the egg while the viewer is forced to sit on the edge of their seats and watch to total anticipation knowing something bad is going to happen. If he had had an ounce of common sense he wouldn't have looked into the egg but the story would have gone nowhere fast. I even listened to Ridley Scott talk about that scene and it was designed for just that purpose to build tension and then explode scaring the hell out of the audience. This is what I was talking about and I hope you now understand more fully why I say that sometimes a protagonist must do stupid things for the motif to play out.

irt. [b]nostromo001[/b]: Hey, I loved the film too. There are flaws, but I don't really care. There's a good story in there, filled with intriguing potential, and I can't wait for it to continue. On Kane looking stupidly into the egg, I'm prepared to overlook that, on the assumption that no member of the Nostromo crew was trained in what to do in the event of meeting alien thingamajiggies. Human curiosity does the rest. Moving around sticking your head in strange places- hey, some people are like that. Do caving and you'll meet a few. Of course, real caves on Earth- particularly squeezy ones- are only home to things like tiny bugs and the occasional bat colony. Or so we think. Dun-dun-dun. irt. [b]Mala'kak[/b]: I commented earlier that archaeology is a 'tough' science, because the amount of data you have available is highly constrained, and you can't make new data (can't always design experiments in archaeology). I don't think there needs to be any conspiracy behind it all; the amount of red tape and petty bureaucracy one must go through to gain access to a site is enough to drive people crazy. One of the reasons why no, no, no, I'm not buying 4 PhDs, in areas requiring field work. Not before the age of 30. Not happening. That was a lazy writing crutch. Sorry, I do have my pet peeves.

I agree with you there BLANDC. Getting one PhD took me 6 years and I was well past my thirties when I got it (O Chem - a much harder science by comparision to Palentology, Anthropology or mimetics - a major that I am not even sure Oxford offers due to its highly debated nature, the word Memetics generally means cultural Darwinism). The idea that a kid of 17 achieved 4 even related PhDs is just bull sh*t. Each PhD requires a written dissertation of over 200 pages typically. A teenager capable of turning out that much work in a major like anthropology that normally takes 8 years to finish while also completing 3 more in the same time frame is just science fiction and not at all likely. Its a literary device right up there with the fabled truth serum and the notion that chloroform knocks people out in 3 seconds - both not true, chloroform would take about 30 seconds to a minute and may cause vomiting in the process, which could choke the victim to death, and truth serum was the holy grail of the OSS, CIA and the Nazis before. Sodium pentothal just knocks a person out and they never have found a reliable truth serum. That whole undertaking fell under the project known as MK ULTRA, and LSD was the favorite potential 'truth serum' of the CIA due to its ability to induce states of psychological dissociation and confusion. So claiming a protagonist has multiple PhDs, while it sounds plausible to those who never tried to earn one, is in itself ridiculous not to mention doing so at the age of 17. That would require an IQ so far off the charts that she would surpass David!!!

It's not even an IQ thing. It's about physical time not being enough, pure and simple. Requirements vary (page count usually isn't one of them; published/communicated papers often is). But those requirements, well, require, that actual work be put in, and that work takes time. I don't know how it is in O. Chem. (I'd expect the experimental side to take time in resource collection, experiment preparation and analysis). Heck, I don't know how things are in archaeology either, but that didn't stop me from posting something on my blog ('[url=http://blandcorporatio.blogspot.com/2012/09/on-fiction-this-bushel-of-phds-non.html]This bushel of PhDs nonsense must stop[/url]'). Setting aside the work needed to analyze findings on the field and write the papers/dissertation, one actually has to find stuff in the field, or gain access to the stuff locked up God knows where in museums. Lots of red tape for the latter, even more for the former, as important sites are access controlled and everyone wants to get there. (In comparison, getting a PhD in CompSci and related fields is a breeze.)

it was relevent to illustrating her characters nature PhD shows commitment to a subject area, you practically give up your life to it! that is why i think they stressed the number and variation of shaws PhD's to stress that the character had devoted her life to this quest of hers that she was obsessed not that she was necessarily wise or sane about it you have to be a bit mad in many peoples eyes (no offence nostromo) to give up a 'regular life' optimal income, free time etc to do that level of study.... it takes an almost spiritual commitment to stick with it.... i say this as i fill in applications for PhDs not really expecting acceptance on any of them and dreading an interview, i am no A grade student i struggle with distractions and lack the energy of my twenties, however i just cant imagine not continuing there are plenty of other careers i could do but i would always be thinking back about it... unless and totally unrealistic, i won millions of millions by chance and did a bruce wayne and could comfortably oversee a well funded R&D operation except for biomedical applications not flying cars etc..... see Kawhaaaayyyyzeeee!

I recommend any intelligent person to commit themselves to a PhD program if for no other reason than to increase the numbers of educated citizens out there! You would be surprised how committing yourself to a concentrated area of study with lots of reading and writing can improve your ability to critically think. Its a bit like lifting weights but for your brain. The more you exercise it the larger your glial cells become and you reinforce the intraneural wiring. Glia provide nutrition to the neurons analogous to how exercising muscles increases nutrient filled blood flow to the muscle cells. I found that problem solving as in working Calculus or Differential equations and getting the right answer gives you a boost of endorphins and other neurotransmitters to the pleasure centers and that drives you on to want to solve more just like a rhesus monkey pushing a lever for a reward in a Skinner box. Another thing caenorhabhditis, my chemistry professors when I was an undergraduate told me that they find that students that are A students in the lecture section of class tend to in general do less well than the B students who are better in lab when it comes to success in grad school. My cummulative GPA going into grad school was only 3.3 because I started out as an art major and switched after my first semester, which caused me to have to learn good study skills and my semester averages steadily climbed from a begining semester ave of 2.6 until I transferred to a university by which time I was getting 4.0 semester averages - the highest that the school offered. So if you plotted my GPA over time it climbed with a steadily increasing linear slope so it averaged out in the middle but I found out that entrance committees like to see a climbing GPA slope more than a straight horizontal high slope because it looks like you tried increasingly hard and that shows character and motivation, the very attributes that they look for, so don't sell yourself short. I applied to 5 schools and got accepted to one and once I was in the department paid for my tuition, gave me a salary and with student loans to help out I thoroughly enjoyed myself. It was like being paid to play with your chemistry set as a kid. It was more like a hobby and I had fun solving problems and making my research work. I have no regrets about my decision to go to grad school and I wholly recommend you go. Are you a bio-related major? PS I still draw and paint and occasionally have shows. Here is a self portrait I did using ball point pen: [img][img]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/259885_10150219439035745_2316685_n.jpg[/img][/img] That goes for anybody reading this. If we all become Doctorates perhaps we can be the next generation of Sci Fi characters in a new Ridley Scott directed movie fighting some aliens or Engineers!

Thanks Nostromo! i needed bucking up a bit. I'm not sure but i think our honours an extra year on your degree is th equivalent to your majors? mine was Applied Bioscience and my Masters will be Biomedical science its heavily focused on Genetics of disease and Molecular Genetics. love your self-portrait, Why does no-one ever smile much in self portraits haha its like we dont want people to think were narcissistic