please , no queen

I think Ridley is not going to peeeee all over the Queen concept, but then there is so many application to the Xeno Lifeform and how it was created. The Queen could be just a evolution of the perfect Bio Weapon and it does not mean that the Morph Idea is rubbished, indeed both ideas are valid. My opinion is that the Deleted Alien Scene showed the Xeno, changing Brett into a Super Egg, but what would come from such a large Egg and we see Dallas used as a Host like the Humans was in Aliens. surely the outcome would be a Face Hugger or similar and if this creates just one Xeno that can go around Morphing other Humans when the ship is found then why did the Xeno kill the others and not try and capture and Morph the other crew? Unless maybe the outcome would have been a different kind of Face Hugger that would implant a lifeform into Dallas that could ultimately when grown up can reproduce without the need to Morph Human Hosts... such as lay Eggs for example. The Xeno is the prefect lifeform whos aim seems to procreate, and having a ability to Morph People into Eggs that can then produce a self reproducing Organism would be PERFECT!

I'm pretty sure that for Prometheus 2 they stated that it would veer quite far away from [i]Alien[/i]-esque things. And then for Prometheus 3 they would brings things back around a bit. So honestly, I'm not expecting to ever see a queen (unless the Engineers have one captive for some freaky sacrificial ceremonies or something.)

Indeed Ridley did say he wanted Prometheus so show us clues to Alien DNA and that at the end of the movie we would get something we would see Alien DNA for ourselves. This never meant the Deacon is the predecessor to the Xeno, it simply shows their is a genetic connection between it and a Xeno. He said that Spaights Draft the Organisms was too close to Alien, and featured Traditional Xeno and Face Huggers and he wanted something different, some how to show a connection with the Organism but not be another Alien movie, as the Alien (in its form from Alien to Alien Resurrection) had been done to death. This does not mean he did not want to cover Xeno related organisms, as well the Hammerpede, Deacon and Trilobite all had traces of Xeno DNA. But he has said with regards to Paradise they want to go away from Alien and by that he means either connection with Weyland, and/or the Xenomorph.... And i think we would see even less of any Xeno DNA related stuff in Paradise than Prometheus.... but ultimately by the time Ridley has finished with the Franchise i do think he would want to answer the question with less ambiguity than Prometheus and Alien as far as where the Xeno Came from and what its purpose was. The reason... well if he leaves such things as open, then their is not stopping someone in future being employed by Fox to finally answer those long after Ridley has gone, and what it turns out to be could be something that would make Ridley turn in his grave. In essence, had Ridley not agreed with the Queen and Aliens then if he had been part of Alien 2 he could have developed the Xeno to what ever he wanted to... He now has chance to explain the Xeno origins eventually in a way that Ridley wants because if he does not, then their is nothing stopping Fox doing so in future and then explain the Xeno origins in a way that Ridley would never had wanted. God forbid.... that they are introduced as Canon as creation of the Predators.... but unless Ridley by time he is finished with Prometheus franchise closes the door with the answer, then it leaves it open to be explored in any manor in future.

Well said bigdave . Ridley has to finish this Pulse I am with you. No queen please

I am not sure i even want any Xenos in this movie, apart from something at the end, thats provided their is no Prometheus 3. I would love to see many Murals and Statues that depict the Elders and many various creations, some Mural or Statues that could indicate a Xeno-Esque life form but like it to be ambiguous like Prometheus ones. I would like a explanation of sorts for what the goo is and does, and this would be fine if it is a Tool to break down a Organism to then allow its DNA to be passed on and fussed with new life. I guess a lot depend on where the Goo comes from, i mean if it creates Xenos or is from them and i am talking about the stuff at the Sacrificial Scene then maybe that would explain to much well connect to Xenos too much.... If the stuff the Sacreficial Engineer drank was connected to whats in the Urns but the stuff he taken was in no way connected or would create Xenos, then that would be fantastic. By that i mean if we find out the Purpose off the Sacrificial Substance but nothing about the stuff on LV 223, then it gives us a big clue to join some dots with out having Spoon fed answers. Ultimately i think we will at some point see a connection between the Goo and the Xeno, be it that the Engineers show us, or that they have it on the Home World, or that indeed the Xeno represents some kind of God or something they worship.... Or we may see Xeno Traces at some point when maybe David decided to conduct another experiment on a Elder/Engineer with the Goo. I just dont want the Engineers to explain too much on the stuff, maybe they would hint to Shaw that the Goo can be used to break down a Organism and pass on its Genome to form new life based on its DNA. Maybe they would suggest that some fraction had came across a Organism they tried to experiment on.... or that they dabbled with the Goo and some Organism and created something they should not have. They do not have to say hey we created the Xeno and for this reason..

I don't think we'll see a Queen or any Morbs, save perhaps the mature Deacon, though I do agree we will likely see references to them, and other biological atrocities as well. And, in keeping with the tone of Prometheus,  I also agree any allusions will be deliberately vague and open to interpretation.  It is true though that RS and Fox are likely monitoring reactions and may feel inclined to give certain classic elements some screen time. Even then, though, I'd be surprised and disappointed to see a Queen. We have here a rare opportunity to adjust our ideas about the canon and I, like many others,  am now rejecting certain story elements I once accepted.  Logic and nature as we know it needn't drive every decision in the story, and transformation is just far creepier than a Queen. Maybe not as efficient, but who knows, maybe the DNA behind all that is unfinished, or riddled with errors, or evolved to function in conditions that are unimaginable. Inasmuch as the set elements in the deleted transformation scene were sized to contain human actors, I always felt they would eventually be shrunk down to spore size, which is even worse, especially if the victim is conscious for most of it. :D

i have already talked about how both ideas work perfectly together, and how the xenomorph could use many potential life cycles to reproduce, and that all of them are very justified in the movies they are potrayed in. you can find my post [url=http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/25189]here[/url]

disappointed to see a Queen. We have here a rare opportunity to adjust our ideas about the canon and I, like many others,  am now rejectingcertain story elements I once accepted. Now if ever there was a statement that needs to framed and put on a wall for all too see. Thanks major noob Because I see prometheus as a chance for ridley to finish the franchise he started and destroy this canon nonsense once and for all.

Oduodu- Thank you! I think its fair to say that canon is highly personal, especially here. When all is said and done, I'd want Ridleys views on this topic, and even then I'd probably make my own story out of it. That's true of all of us, across all 7 movies so far, plus mountains of printed material, there's so many details and ways to interpret them, the mind boggles. I've said this before: I didn't give any of this much thought until Prometheus, and now I feel I'm free to decide for myself. That's the nature of Ridleys beast, and what many find so frustrating; he'll show us certain things, and leave the rest for our imaginations to turn over. And turn over we do. I loved the Queen when it came out and still do, but now that I have a choice, I'm not choosing it. The bizarre and variable nature of Ridleys universe is my preference. My grandmother laid a great phrase on me when I was a kid: De gustibus non est disputandum, " matters of taste are not worth arguing". Certainly true, but quite contradictory of human nature, which is maybe the point. So, no intent to rile. But no Queen, please.

I think the Queen was a Ideal Creation, but its one for the Alien universe and i dont expect we would see one, or in fact any Xenomorphs in the traditional sense, i feel any link with those would be either via Murals etc or vaguely in dialect but visually we will not see any. Like how Janek Speculated about the Engineers making WMDs on LV 223 and Shaw saying the Engineers suffered a outbreak..... But we was not shown any Flash Back scene like the Sacrifice Scene to show such a event, only the Hologram and Dead Engineer clues and i feel we would get similar or less clues to what the Xeno was and is. If anything i think we would find vague references to a Organism that we can trace some similarities to that either the Engineers originally created, or that they came across and then we can put 2+2 that the Xeno came from such a Organism. But as far as the tradition Queen we wont see one, but who knows maybe they would show the Deacon, or a Organism that is similar but that the Deacon and Xeno all trace their routes to. Thats not to say that this Organism is a Egg Layer, we just dont know. On one hand Ridley wants to steer away from the Xeno more and as Prometheus had little to do with the Xeno, steering away from it more could imply even less a similarities than the Deacon and Shaws Baby Trilobite gave us..... But on the other hand Ridley said that David is going to Paradise and he is bringing Hell with him, and that must mean the Juggernaut must have some Urns or something else on it... Ridley did then hint what if a Robot or a God was introduced to the Goo, and that it would result in something very interesting. This to me hints that at some point David is going to Infect the Engineers/Elders or who ever they find with something he is carrying on that Juggernaut.

I'm all for [url=http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/24855]ALIEN PREQUEL/SEQUEL REBOOT[/url], as they've done with Evil Dead, Superman and Spiderman. Mutation is THE ONLY WAY to xeno-cycle the future.

Custodian clean my toilet there's a huge poop in it. Get the saw dust some kid threw up in the classroom. Ajax works or even Comet, sometimes Lysol will do the trick. I am joking of course. LOL

The queen is to easily accepted and an expected idea. Seeing eggs its obvious that something laid those eggs. I find that the transformation adds more depth to the alien universe, it adds more question mystery and horror. When the nostromo crew came across the chambers with thousands of eggs. Knowing that all those eggs were people I cant help but wonder How it all came about and how it all ties in with the engineers. But seeing the pic, the one of the deacon with queen style crown. I think in horror that ridley may of been pressure into going along with the queen idea ( maybe by fox or giler)....i pray not

Less Cameron' bugs and more Giger vision please.

^^^^ What Shambhala said ^^^^. Also, the transformation method is alot scarier IMO

I flipped through the Art of the Film book this week and production designer Arthur Max explains that they wanted the ampule chamber to look like the egg chamber, the only difference being that they wanted the ampules to circle the giant head. Thus there is a deliberate connection between the ampules and eggs... This reminds me of Ridley Scott's interview regarding the derelict's cargo, he stated that it 'evolved' or 'got out of control' and what is interesting is that he never mentions eggs in regard to the cargo only 'bacteriological drums of shit you could drop on a planet'. This seems to imply that the ampules transform. Indeed, there are similarities between the two scenes; when Kane investigates the eggs he comments on the temperature "...it's like the tropics in here." and notices that the eggs are boiling liquid - in the ampule chamber the temperature changes and the ampules begin to defrost and sweat - when Kane shines his torch on the egg he says it has organic life - when David investigates an ampule it is melting black goo from the top down, touching it he remarks, 'oganic', note, this organic black goo is melting through the top of the ampule. Soon the atmosphere in the room is disrupted enough for the murals to change and what do we see; an egg grasped by a xeno. In the original Alien script the eggs were originally described as urns with strange markings or bottles... I think the answer has been staring us dead in the face all this time and the simplest explanation is always the most likely. I don't think Ridley had a long-winded and natural explanation for it, the cargo simply got out of control, the bacterial black goo evolved and we're left with 'eggs'. Ridley would not be beholden by the 'canon' of the sequels, indeed, with Prometheus he went back to O'Bannon's original ideas and concepts; O'Bannon is canon, and that rhymes bitch. TL;DR, I think the deliberate similarities between the ampule chamber and the egg silo are for a reason, the derelict never had 'eggs' in the first place but bacterial drums of shit that got out of control and evolved.

@meshuggah. I totally like that idea. Are you saying that the canisters are the eggs. And when they opened the door the canisters began to change into egg? That would change alot about the story of the derelict....that theory is probably one of the best for while.

Thanks pulse. The idea of the urns changing into eggs was kicked around for a while by many when the teasers and trailers were going and many others noticed the visual similarities enough between the orderly placement of the urns and eggs. Ridley in his last interview on the derelict stated that its cargo 'got out of control', 'evolved', etc, and he explains that there is no real link between the films other than explaining who had these weapons, 'bacterial drums of shit you could drop on a planet.' I remember many were confused when he implied that the derelict had urns but to me it made complete sense and it's by far the simplest explanation. I don't think Ridley had a really complicated notion of what happened and the only cargo we see in the Juggernaut are a stock pile of urns, if the Juggernauts are bombers the urns in the silo would be the urns the Juggernaut drops onto worlds. Just like how water will make steel rusty, when left unchecked in an uncontrolled environment the urns change and the film intimates as much, we don't see the full transformation but we already saw the end result. This also explains why the classic xenos have metalloid elements. It never made sense to me that the engineers would stockpile live eggs as cargo without being impregnated, no, the derelict never had 'eggs' to begin with, the urns became unstable and evolved. Look at how the stockpile is in a controlled environment; all refrigerated, David knew that to keep the urn under control he had to keep it cold.

You know I'd seen this idea before ( ampules becoming eggs) too and didn't give it much thought, not because I didn't like it, I was prolly distracted by something else at the time. Looking at it now, I love it. How creepy. And it would explain why some had moving matter on them.

Absolutely noob! I exhausted my self on long-winded explanations and flowcharts, then read Ridley's last interview on the subject and he implies that the derelict had a cargo of urns or 'bacterial drums of shit' that got out of control. Seriously, how would it drop eggs on worlds if they were the original cargo let alone get them on the ship without being sprung by a facehugger? Prometheus contextualises Alien by showing that its cargo was originally urns; volatile bioweapons or 'bacterial drums of shit you could drop on a planet'. Indeed, what would happen with eggs splattering on worlds on account of gravity, even if we were to grant that they would land intact how would that guaranteed that they would land top up? The Juggernauts are only stockpiled with urns and that is all there is to it. This goes all the way back to Dan O'Bannon's original screenplay where the eggs were originally identified as 'urns with strange markings' or 'bottles'. Indeed, the goo was melting through the metal oozing from the top down, the two scenes; the egg silo and the ampule chamber share so many similarities and the biggest hint to me is the fact that when the temperature raises enough to change the murals we see an egg grasped by a xeno. Urns become eggs and xenos replicate themselves by morphing hosts into eggs, that is Ridley's vision.

I cant remember where it was and word for word... maybe i have to have a look online... But i do remember Ridley saying the Derelict contained a Cargo of Eggs and that one of them had got lose and infected the pilot the pilot then set a course to the nearest baron place to Quarantine the Cargo and he crash landed on LV 426 then set off a SOS... The thing is if the Urns change to Eggs, then we have to ask how come we see a Xeno with a Egg in one of the Frescos.... And we know what the Urns do and i would not think getting infected with the Goo would result in the Space Jockey getting Chest Busted. All clues would point to that he would either 1) Explode/Break down to nothing..... 2) Mutate into a Hybrid Engineer and Xeno-Esque Organism. The thing is though will we ever get the complete answers to where the Xeno came from and its connection with the Urns? I still have the impression that what ever is in the Urns is a Evolution/Improvement/ Re-Weaponizing of the Xeno Eggs.

Regarding the Xeno and Queen, i doubt we will see any in the movie, i think we would get a explanation from a Engineer, or maybe some Murals and Frescos and Hieroglyphs that will explain maybe that.. 1) These race experimented on a Organism that that deemed perfect and they either tried to recreate it or tried to manipulate it to create a Hybrid or some other use.... and they ultimately either created the Xeno from this..... or the stuff in the Urns from it. 2) They some how Engineered a Organism and futher attempts to Engineer and improve it produced either the Eggs/Xeno or that the Eggs/Xeno came as a evolution from the stuff in Urns. I think this would be done vaguely mind...

Ridley's last interview would be the most reliable here, and he states the engineers cargo 'got out of control' or 'evolved' and yes the pilot was a victim in the process, i.e., facehugged, when the mural changes on account of the atmosphere this indicates what the ampules change into, Ridley stated that the derelict brother ship was roughly of the same period give or take a couple hundred years. The ampule chamber shows a history and there are many smaller and rustier looking urns indicating that they are the oldest artefacts of the bioweapon. It's the most Occam's razor friendly explanation there is and the simpler explanation is always the most likely.

Yes i seen that one, it will be interesting to see the connection, as it appears that Ridley is explaining for most part what we see in Prometheus as far as the Goo and what it could do should even a drop get into a Water Supply. But again it could be in regards to the Derelict also, he says that ship Evolved, and its open as to say does this Evolve after it crashes, is whats on it evolved before and being transported. Thats the thing with the movie and interviews as Ridley releases comments that can contradict each other, and the movie also has clues that do the same. And what they do is give us clues where we c an try and connect the dots but ultimately are any of us right or wrong? And will we ever get a better explanation in future? It appears the latest interview is more of a gearing towards the Urns as opposed to early drafts that seemed to indicate Eggs as Cargo inc Spaights.... The Murals do show that they was aware that the Urns are connected some how to the Xeno and Eggs.... There still is no 100% proof can prove or disprove which came first though... Hopefully we will though.

Yeah, I don't think it matters if the urns changed before take off or after, Ridley seems to suggest that they did around take off which means that they were undergoing the process of changing unbeknownst to the pilot before taking off. All that matters is that these things are sensitive as hell; time bombs waiting to go berzerk. I think we will get more [i]explicit[/i] confirmation on this since Shaw and David are taking a Juggernaut stock-piled with bioweapons, yet for now we have some very strong visual hints and implicit explanations from Ridley, not to mention Dan O'Bannon's original screenplay where the crew initially identify the eggs as urns with markings, vases, or bottles. I love that Prometheus is such a realization of O'Bannon's original vision and concepts.

Personally, after reading about the original ideas in the first [b]Alien[/b], I began to despise Cameron's simplistic ideas. The xenomorph turning its victims into eggs is 1000 x more disturbing than a big-ass Alien Queen lying eggs around. Cameron made everything seem too much like extraterrestrial insects, therefore making them less "alien".

[b]meshuggah[/b] is into something here! Quite a simple and credible theory.

[i]"Personally, after reading about the original ideas in the first Alien, I began to despise Cameron's simplistic ideas."[/i] while Aliens was 'a very entertaining rollercoaster-type film' it literally drove an artic truck all over the basic [i]xenomorph[/i] concept, then reversed back up the road and ran over that shit again, just in case. Reboot Alien Franchise (based on two concepts i: Space Jockey origin and ii: transformation evolution) is the only answer, imho.

[quote]Reboot Alien Franchise (based on two concepts i: Space Jockey origin and ii: transformation evolution) is the only answer, imho.[/quote] Agreed 100%. I can't see them continuing the story after [i]Resurrection[/i]... And I wouldn't want them to! Cloned Ripley? Argh. Honestly, I think a reboot will happen in the near future, maybe after [i]Paradise[/i].

meshuggah- I bow to you! Your idea makes total, logical, sense.

Hell yes, O'Bannon IS Canon!! Also that cargo on the LV426 derelict could have been intended for the Engineer/Elder homeworld, to transform them?

Great thread Pulse & terrific input from all posters.....*waves to Big Dave & The Noobmeister!* ;)

Transformation rules! I seriously doubt Ridley would want to include any Queenie reference given that this is now HIS chance to evolve the story.

I dont think we will even see anything related to Eggs and the Xeno... The only thing i think we would find out is the connection ultimately between the Black Goo in the Urns and the Xeno... i.e If the Goo created the Xeno, then we may be given clues to where that Goo came from and a hint of what other creatures it could create. If the Goo came from the Xeno, then we may be given clues to such and also ultimately where the Xeno came from.. But without us actually having Eggs, Face Huggers and Xenos running around. Ultimately i think the Eggs and Goo was created some how from something else, that the Engineers either found and experimented on to create such things.... Or was created by something else that had also created the Engineers.

Yeah, well as I said, we haven't seen the last of the goo and the urns and I suspect things will be more explicitly laid out for us. I think the urns changing into these biomechanoid biohazards makes too much sense and lines up perfectly and simply; Lindelof in the commentary speaks of 'these things in these vases...sought of encased in that black goop..." and Arthur Max in the Art of the Film speaks of creatures inside the ampules thus I think no matter how implicit the connection between the urns and the 'eggs' I think it is rather quite obvious. The reason I think that others didn't make or didn't want to see the connection between the two is that it is a) Simple, b) Complex and long-winded explanations are more tempting and give fans pretentious boners to impress the perplexed and c) Many of the Aliens fanboys are hung up on the Queen being responsible for the very first eggs despite the fact that Ridley has stated repeatedly that the derelict was carrying 'cargo' and cargo that 'got out of control'. It doesn't make sense that you would be able to control the eggs before storing them as cargo let alone try and control a Queen. How would you even [i]drop[/i] the eggs onto planets? They all seem to stick together so as to be stationary for hosts. This is why ampules or Urns make more sense as artillery to drop onto worlds, ergo, the derelict was carrying urns that got out of control and evolved; the film implicitly puts the chicken or the egg issue to rest. As to the origins and ultimate 'purpose' of the black goo in and of itself, and as it pertains to the culture and motives of the engineers or, indeed, a faction of engineers, that is still unclear but hopefully Paradise will clear that up for us. I wish more were appreciative of how much Pro realised and paid homage to O'Bannon and it's not just those urns with strange markings.

I am pretty sure the insect thing wasn't Cameron's idea. Ridley and the other original creators of [i]Alien [/i], Giger, Shusett and Ridley have all been quoted as describing the Alien/Xeno as being insect-like. [i]"I wanted him [the Alien] to be insect-like. Like an ant. Because if you examine an ant under a microscope they’re kind of elegant, and I wanted him to be very elegant and dangerous". ~Ridley Scott (1991)[/i]” [i]“We decided to make a very elegant creature: quick, and like an insect.” HR Giger, Cinefex, 1979.[/i] [i]“It was our idea that it would be the life cycle of an insect. The way a wasp will sting a spider, paralyse it, and lay its eggs in the spider … that we did want it to be …. We thought people might pick up on it and say, ‘yeah, an alien life cycle can be an insect life cycle".~Ron Shusett[/i] [url=http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/the-insect-influence/]Alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/the-insect-influence[/url]

I can remember clearly, on one documentary for ALIENS, somewhere on the internet, that Cameron based ALIENS on the STARSHIP TROOPERS novel (poop) I will try and find it. "I'll be back"

This isn't the documentary but it's something else that shows Cameron was inspired by the STARSHIP TROOPERS novel. [url=http://www.film4.com/reviews/1986/aliens]ALIENS kissing and cuddling upto STARSHIP TROOPERS[/url] In my viewing of Ridley Scott and H R Giger interviews, where they have mentioned that the Giger Alien was inspired by an insect, or that they wanted it to be like an insect, was just the aesthetic in my opinion. Ridley wanted the creature to be "alien" to our way of thinking about reproduction. (That was his real goal.) And he achieved that with the cacoon scene, which he later released in the DC of ALIEN. A Insects reproduction method is very Earthly (ie not alien to our way of thinking.) Cameron creating the queen to explain where the eggs came from was VERY lazy on his part IMHO