MEETING GOD

DJAMELAMEZIANE - I completely understand and respect your viewpoints. :)

"No one knows the truth of the universe, and to assume one does is vanity in the extreme"

This is exactly true.... and lets not let this lead to a who is right or wrong as far as Religon etc.... i have studied the Bible and Literally i have found so many flaws and holes that i dont discuss because those who deeply believe will get very very offended.... as far as Evolution there are holes and there are things that add up....  Truth is none of them make 100% sense... and then we have to look at every other Religon that Proceeds the newer religons and cultures and there is some very good and strong links between them all, that you can connect them and then if you throw Evolution into the mix with some other Ancient and PROVEN! Ancient Cultures as far as oldest records (that some could argue are fake.. like well lots stuff including dinosaurs)  then there is a common theme and connections...

These themes and connections that Prometheus was trying to answer... this is that its both a combination of Evolution and some Devine interaction that lead to life on Earth... a plausible case when you deeply be unbiased.

But these have no connection with the movie,  we should not look upone Ridleys ideas or a work as a Mockery of Science.. or Blasphemy Against God....   the Movie is SCI-FI.... so its not Factual and should be enjoyed..

for the record can we prove the Bible... oh yes cus its written down..... for some thats not enough...  Can we prove Big Bang and Evolution... well their is some compelling evidence that supports a lot of it.... but no one was around back at the start and so again we cant prove that.

GOD.... Magical Devine Being omnipresent yet omniscient, created the Universe from Nothing, Magically and all creation Magically... well by devine Power of the Word....( maybe as a Stroy teller can create a World, Creatures and Events via there imagination?) We cant prove this is the case... or prove that it is not.

BIG BANG...... A Explosive event that created the material to form stars, from dust and gas and chemicals and then Planets formed and then basic Life Blah Blah and a series of Natural Events and Natural Selection led to Evolution... can we prove this to be the case...?  We cant.. can we prove its not... we cant!

Ridley is going to give us something that that would fit with the both, in a curveball way.....

I hope that he is not going the route of the WORD/BEGINING is Program or some Dreams and Imagination of some body... David, Shaw or what ever but i expect a CURVEBALL and to be prepared for something very  bizare and out there....

BIGDAVE - Hear, hear! Let us avoid abashing one-another and use our minds to enjoy one-another's company and engaging conversation! We can come together as enthusiasts of Sir Scott's work regardless of our religious views! :)

Hmmm there is allot of proof for the big bang or at least one of many big bangs not sure what you have read Dave...Anyway I'm not saying the bible doesn't have parts of the original I expect it does just not much and it's probably a good book in some senses anyway maybe in some moral and life teachings. 

But in relation to prometheus I think Ridley will take a dark look on it all especially as this is a dark film series. So probably something like God is dead gone or just not interested possibly even evil or totally devoid of emotions something like that. Although with Ridley brother gone and Ridley being and older chap now there may be a glint of niceness shining through at the end I guess. I hope it touches on this probably towards the end but it would be nice fit David to tell us all about the engineers beliefs elders etc....yes prometheus is sci fi but it's not fantasy like legend. So this means it's supposed to feel real and exist in our universe our future that's what got messed up with the characters in the last one :p . This is why it all relates back to reality...

Lol it's also the 41st birthday of discovering 'Lucy' on Google right now :)

Science is always changing and Evolving as far as answers to stuff relating to Big Bang and Evolution and we cant really definitely prove or disprove it either way...  as far as Bible goes, again a lot has been changed over the hundreds of years that parts was written.....   Again can we prove its correct or incorrect there is no 100% way to completely rule every part of it out..

There seems common themes within the Bible, and other Religons and Cultures that could be more than coincidence! does this mean there is some element of Truth?  Or are they all just re-telling of a similar Tale, that changes slightly everytime its told? 

I think this was the purpose of Prometheus to look into the similarities to then bridge some kind of Gap between them and Big Bang and Evolution and then loosely fit that lot into the STORY they are trying to tell us for Prometheus...

But its  all only Sci-Fi, even though he is trying to touch up on some pretty big things and pose some serious Questions.... for those thinking we would be taken down the Path to meet God Allmighty they must be prepared for Answers that are not going to be Literal as far as the Bible/Korans God goes...  they are going for some pretty Bold and somewhat "out side of the box" ideas if you ask me... Ridley is dropping some Red Herring Clues that lead us to think oh they are going the route of showing us God, which they could be but it will be far from the God in the traditional Sense.

We need to be looking at Themes... and not to take a look at a Literal re-telling of God... as in Plural....  Ridley has touched upon a number of times themes from Paradise Lost.... also Prometheus was touching upon Ancient Greek  Mythos which if you really look into the clues in Prometheus.. some dots do add up to that...

I think what they are doing is loosely looking at Connections between Greek Mythos, and other Ancient Cultures.... then loosely connecting them with parts of the Bible but only as far as themes that Paradise Lost Poem that was inspired by the Bible goes... and so maybe not to expect a Literal Bible Twist but more like look closer at the Greek Creation Myth and Greek Gods, and Summarian and Babylonian and throw in Paradise Loss and the Book of Enoch.. find common THEMES between all of them and then re-tell that in the Story of Alien/Prometheus but in a way that is not directly too Literal.

If it's not very literal I think it will get fudged and lost although it's not had much in it yet directly relating to our history...but it is trying to be realistic and hopefully it will be more so this time round in terms of characters (the other stuff was good) . And you cant prove stuff like evolution 100 percent not sure what you mean? You cant actually prove anything 100 percent so by that theory you cant act on anything because it's not definite lol. You have to act on what's most likely and fortunately evolution and the big bang are extremely likely! There is mountains of evidence more than you could ever read about! It's not like a man down the pub told me about it is thousands of scientists testing and pushing the theory from millions of angles over almost 150 years. I don't know what it takes to make you believe something but I call that as certain as it gets!

And if your talking about a theory with almost no evidence like we could all be in the matrix...an illusion as such and all history could be made up type thing well we can't act on that because the evidence is zilch! If we proved this tmrw I would look at it and maybe believe it if enough evidence was there but that's just it we can only act on what we have! Not what we don't.

That reminds me this highlights this problem: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VmCtxFy21SY brilliant program.

No i mean that and im bieng 100% honest here, we can not Prove the Big Bang 100% its a theory... a logical one, that holds a lot of weight... but Science Evolves and Theories Change or Adapt....   but as no Human was ever present its one of those things that will remain a very plausible theory....  some do completely dismiss it...  same as the Earth is Round (i.e Flat Earthers) and there is some evidence that lends weight to Flat Earth... and every image and video of the Earth from Space could be Faked... its possible.. but its unlikely...  there are many other clues and problems that debunk a Flat Earth.....  

Same with Religon... some things that dont add up, and go against findings such as Dinosaurs etc.....

I am not saying the Big Bang is fake at all... no body knows 100% how it started and some could argue was it by devine means... which i doubt.... as no one was there at that time its one of those things....  but the findings that point to a Big Bang or similar event do have a lot of weight that supports something similar as far as expansion of the universe and how Stars and Planets are born from Dust and Gases etc..

Im pretty much on the Big Bang Fence as opposed to Magical Devine Being created it all.... but there is some coincidences between religons and other mythos and cultures... that may provide either some Element of Truth or just re-telling of a Fable that changes everytime its passed on to one culture to the next....

This is what Ridley is going for... that there has to be some connection... i.e Ancient Aliens.... and so not Gods literally but indeed some Ancient Race who are so advanced they would seem Godlike in the things they can do....  this is the other 3rd Theory or Creation.. this theory only gives us answers to creation of Life...

And not creation of Worlds, Stars and Galaxies that the other Two theories cover... (Devine Creation, Big Bang/Evolution).   So Ridley is trying to go the route of the 3rd... Ancient Aliens route while having it tie in with Religons loosely...... but then has something Big Planned for in terms of the Prometheus Franchise and HOW THE GALAXY, STARS AND PLANETS came to be....

As i have said if you Dig then you can find things that dont quite work with Evolution, but Religious people jump all over them and over exagerate these Flaws... failing to realise that the Religious books have bigger Flaws....

All in alll thats the Biggest Burning Question...... Where did we come from, why, how did it come to be and where do we go and what purpose to we have.....   these are the Questions Ridley posed when he was doing Prometheus that i feel they wanted to loosely touch upon in a sequel to Prometheus.....

No real 100% way to answer some stuff.... apart from where do we go when we die... because thats one thing we definately have to face at some point.... only when that happens there is no way you can pass on the answers you get to others lol

So yeah i did not want this to get into a Religon vs Big Bang etc debate as to who is right....  but for people to just expect Ridley to tread a boundary between the two of those....

Then again we could all be living in the Matrix.... well you could and all of this is your imagination... you are God... everything is created by you, by your thoughts......   Remember... in the begining there was the WORD!

Just head F-ing ya lol

I hope Ridley dont try and pull a Matrix trick mind... but the source did say the Plot is very Matrix as far as the Engineers and Agenda and Hierarchy above them and purpose... but they also said it relates also a lot to Sacrifce, Rebelion, Control and Punishment.

Oh right maybe I have missed some info on the matrix angle I just thought there were images linked to the matrix as in the pods humans are grown in I thought maybe engineers are grown in the same way that's all. I mean even that pod the engineer came out of at the end of prometheus looked matrix like.

And yes creationists argue there is problems with evolution but I always find their arguments to be incredibly weak at least so far and so easy to take apart. Creationists really do make me laugh. I know it's not a 100 percent theory but it's so solid. Really it's all about people thinking the bible must be exactly true which brings me back to the point that the bible must be almost nothing like the original anyway! Even if God spoke to us explaining everything at that time do you think the Neanderthal thinking of that day could comprehend what was said anyway! Something like God saying and I created the universe in seven days and the people of that time not knowing anything outside of earth interpreted it as only earth if you see what I mean. And God said the universe is 13.7 billion years old they would just look at God like erm what the...Ok let's put that down as a few thousand then as I don't understand that type of a number type stuff!

There could be an eventual truth that combines a creator and all scientific knowledge as it stands today I really expect that to happen although of course God could come and shout it in creationists face and still they wouldn't believe God!

And I think it's a great thing that scientists are finding stuff like quantum physics a world that seems to underpin the universe with a touch of chaos pointing towards the idea that possibly you can never fully work out the universe. That might be a nice thing to put into prometheus maybe that the elders or even the demi God sill couldn't work out the universe or even measure a piece of string perfectly (like in that previous link I posted). :p

God is an event. Everyone and everything is inside the event. The event had a begining, and will have a end

an event never ends

LOL.... Yeah we cant be taking things too Literal..... as far as Creationism, the Bible says a Day for God is a thousand years for us... so the World was created within 7'000 years etc... (but different parts of the Bible a Day has different Time Spans, and not always 24 hours and not always 1000 years). still thats a stupidly small time.... But this is not to be a debate on Creationism vs Evolutionism....

Ridley is trying to Marry the Two.... and if you look Deeper, Really Deeper at other Cultures and Mythos and then try and connect those (Creationism vs Evolutionism) you get some interesting aspects that link to part of Creationism Stories in the Bible... and parts that could be interpretations for the Evolutionism Theory...

One Example... Greeks...

In the beginning there was only Chaos! Then out of the void appeared Erebus (The First Greek deity who represented a dark place where Death and Darkness and Shadow and Night Dwell, Then  Love  was created which inturn brought Order and then Light.

This is just a small extract but the complete version can be used to explain some Event, that could have some relation to the Big Bang, to a degree..... But could fit into another more Matrix theory.... just as in the Bible where in the begining there was the WORD.

There are many things that you can draw a connection between the Bible/Koran and Ancient Mythos of the Greeks and Babylonians.... but also the very begining of these Ancient Mythos can also be connected as to describe events that the Big Bang theory and similar supports..

I think this is what Ridley will be touching upon....

Lets look at 4 possible reasons for Creation.... Dont want this to be a debated in which is correct within context of real life, but sure why not as in context of Prometheus..

1) Creation....some devine Being/Force created everything from Nothing... but some creation myths (not Bible/Koran) explain a event that is not quite a devine being but a Astronomical event that leads latter to creation of devine beings/forces that create in a way a bit different to the Bible/Koran but we can draw orgins to it.

2) Big Bang or Similar Event, which Science Supports but are always finding new theories that slightly change and Evolve and give similar alternatives to the Big Bang but still a Astronomical event or Force.

3) Ancient Aliens angle which Merges parts of the above, but that the Gods are not as Magical or Devine, but highly Advanced with Powerful Knowledge to Manipulate Life/Forces....  but which may have Originated from 1 or 2 or 4!

4) Some kind of Matrix theory, that the Universe and everything in it is working like some kind of Advanced Program (The Word) and creates the universe and life and thoughts and consciousness of every living thing, that then act independantly to each other...... I guess pretty much like say how the Movie The Never Ending Story works... but that its some Force/Program instead of the Boy...

I do have a feeling Ridley is going to give us someting that loosely touches upon every single one of those.

"the Bible says a Day for God is a thousand years for us" Man those 24 hour bugs must really be bad for god :P

I dont think GOD is a HE. Can GOD make a rock so big 'HE" cant pick it up. The answer to that question I think is DOH!. I think this all goes back to Nietzsche. Someone long ago got carried away with all this God stuff, and made a few bad moves for the wrong reason. Now we have the result trying to kill everything. I dont know, just some thoughts. Hope we get some good films from Mr Scott

plato is unavoidable here...or even derrida. look, when we say the word 'event' we define it by its' limitations. and event is what takes place within this timeframe and this space and that's it, and yet, by that very same reasoning, we mean that the event is immortal, because, well, if you define something by its' limits, then the limits become the essence and the essence then is limitless....what are the limits of limits so to speak - the end is not the end, the frame is frameless.

    All things are limitless. However, as we pass through eternity, the very matter that composes us will - and must - change. Even after the final stars of our universe have burned out, we and they shall continue to exist - but simply in a different form. Then, who knows what will transpire in the dark? Will there be new pinpoints of light that burn into existence? Will something that our minds as they presently are can not fathom begin? It is impossible to say. Even so, it is wonderful to imagine what awaits existence! :)

There is a saying "You can search through the Universe to find God but you will not find Him except in the hearts of the Believers".  So if you haven't found God in this short life,just remember that these imaginary realms will become echoed reality in this life: Alien Agenda and in the quantumized eternity of the afterlife. This might be a little crazy but who isn't after their favorite entertainment has been this monstrosity: Sci-fi Hollywood,

uwotm8

THANATOS_CONTAGION

ok, to clear things up, the parallel i drew between the ash quote in alien and eve eating the fruit and gaining "the knowledge of good and evil" is basically that ash in alien is praising the xenomorph for exactly that which adam and eve had before the fall....amorality (" I admire its purity. A survivor... unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality..") "the knowledge of good and evil" is essentially what we call morality and according to the story of the garden, that causes us to die.

The Xenomorph having amorality is interesting. Is it possible for a created being to have amorality if its creators do not? Do the Engineers have amorality? It is not the knowledge of good and evil or "morality" that causes us to die. It is/was the direct disobeyment of God's command, aka sin, to not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

SAPIEN

"The Xenomorph having amorality is interesting. Is it possible for a created being to have amorality if its creators do not? Do the Engineers have amorality? It is not the knowledge of good and evil or "morality" that causes us to die. It is/was the direct disobeyment of God's command, aka sin, to not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

yes sapien, but why would God command us to be amoral? the term amoral is indeed a tricky term, i am not implying that the state of the xenomorph is a Godly state, just that the android perceives the xenomorphs as being 'pure'

THANATOS_CONTAGION 

yes sapien, but why would God command us to be amoral? the term amoral is indeed a tricky term, i am not implying that the state of the xenomorph is a Godly state, just that the android perceives the xenomorphs as being 'pure'

God did not command us to be amoral. He made us without the knowledge of good and evil. Adam was made from the dust and Eve from his rib. It was by faith that Adam knew God. He did not see himself being made. He also did not see God make Eve. They could look around as we can today and see the evidence of all he has made. Adam being in Eden was inside God's protection. Everything was provided. Eat from any tree except one. He was in complete dominion over all things and over all land. Satan deceiving Eve and both of them eating from the Tree gave them knowledge of good and evil, things God already knew, and this erased their innocence and ushered in sin. Sin being the disobeyment of God's command to eat from any tree except one. This was done to have free will. Yes, God could not have made the tree of the knowledge of good and evil but how is it choice without a choice? He was showing them what life was like with his blessing/protection and now they and we in turn have experienced the pain and suffering of a life of sin brought on by their fall. God did not command us to be amoral, he commanded us to trust him and in turn be spared from pain and suffering and evil and sin and death. That is interesting that the android perceives the Xenomorphs as being "pure". Is there any indication as to why they are perceived as "pure"?

will answer more in depth, but th point is this: is "the knowledge of good and evil" what we call morality or not