Alien: Covenant ..... The Story So Far!

BigDave
MemberDeaconJanuary 13, 2016I am starting this Topic to discus the Plot of Alien: Covenant as it unfolds, and to use information that was released after the COVENANT Name Change. So we can gradually discus how the Plot Thickens as more information is released from now until the Movie is out and try and peice together what we feel the movie is going to be about and what path it will be taking us down. I only wish to try and use information released after the Alien: Covenant Name Change... but we can draw upon other information released prior if any new information released after the Alien: Covenant Name Change supports it. Feel free to add any extra information and discus what you feel the movie is going to show us based on Official Information released.
Plot Synopsis
Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in ALIEN with ALIEN: COVENANT, the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with PROMETHEUS -- and connects directly to Scott’s 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world -- whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.
Confirmed Cast
Update: 30 January... Noomi Rapace (Shaw) will not be apearing. (or may not be shooting in Sydney).
Michael Fassbender (David* plus another role?), Katherine Waterston (Daniels),Demián Bichir, Amy Seimetz, Carmen Ejogo, Jussie Smolett and Callie Hernandez, Alex England
Danny McBride, Billy Crudup (Both in Talks)
Music/Soundtrack:
Harry Gregson-Williams
Concept Artwork:
Wayne Haag
Additional Plot Information (Not included in the Synopsis)
*The Movie will take place 10 years after the events of Prometheus (year 2104+).
*The World the crew of the Covenant will arrive at will have a Evolving Creature that the Engineers or their Technology had a role in its origin.
*The Movie will try to answer who made the Beast (Xenomorph) and for what reason.
*The hints seem to be that it was a Bio-Mechanical Bio-Weapon and it will explain that.
*There will be all 4 Stages of the Beast (Xenomorph?) Egg, Face-Hugger, Chest-Burster, then the Big Boy.
*The movie (or sequels) will re-introduce the Alien (Xenomorph) back into the Franchise.
*Ridley feels the Franchise did not fully explore the Creature, and that without that Creature based of HR Gigers Work the movie Franchise would not have worked.
*The Movie will have 2 sequels at which time by the end we shall know the Xenomorph Origins and why the Space Jockey got to LV-426 or at the very least why/how did he get that Organism inside him.
*They will be comming in from the back end and will eventually reach Alien via the back door.
*Elizabeth Shaw will play a minor role at very least in the Next Movie, but there is not explantion to why.
*David will be reprising his role and that of a Doppelganger.
*The Emphasis seems to be on the David the Covenant finds as Synthetic.
*The World the Covenant finds is a scene of Disaster.
*The Movie will be shot in New South Wales, with Shooting Locations and a lot of work done in Sydney at a Movie Studio (Sydney Fox Studio).
*The Movie will feature Monumental Forest and Monumental Rock and the rest will be in the studio with fairly Formidable CGI.
*Micheal Biehn added in a interview about Alien 5, that both movies are set in similar theme, but that they take place on Different Worlds and Aliens is set THOUSANDS of years after Alien: Covenant.
*The Movie would be on the same tangent as Alien 5 but they would both be treading different paths, and Alien 5 goes out next after Alien: Covenant and seems they know more than they let on about Alien 5 Title, but Ridley then said it would be a Alien: Prefix but after both movies we shall see how the bus is being driven... pointing to some connection between both movies?
So feel free to discus of add information to the above and try and draw up any ideas of what you think may be happening as far as Alien Covenant mainly.... but if you wish how it could connect to other movies both past and future to the Franchise.
Update * Mid January 2016
*There will be a Chest Buster Scene that would be more gruesome than the 1979 Original
Update * End January 2016
*Alien Covenant is casting Extras aged between 8-40 who are either Very Small and Thin, or Very Tall and Thin but who also have to be very Strong and Athletic and skilled as Acrobats, Contortionists and the like.
*Noomi Rapace (Dr Shaw) may not be apearing in the next movie. (But this could mean not part of the shooting in Australia)
Update February 16 thanks to Enoch333
Wayne Haag Confirmed to be working on Some Concept work as of Fall 2015 and Harry Gregson-Williams to be working on the Soundtrack
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Nice summary!
I don't understand the 'remote planet on the far side of the galaxy..' part...Is this just Hollywood hype? Why are they travelling such crazy distances!?
Ideas:
They received a distress signal(from David?).
They stopped at LV-223 and found clues to the location of Paradise.
They were captured by a wormhole or warp tunnel and sent to the far side of the galaxy.
they are deep space explorers and the far side of the galaxy was their goal.
Yes so far its hard to break down the Plot.... i do however and i could be wrong, think they interview comments and Synopsis draw a picture... but so far a few of the Plot points have alternatives as there is not enough information to make a more definative guess.
Here goes my reading of the clues alone...
1) I dont think the Covenant would have been to LV-223 or even detected any signals from David, if they did it would only be a David Android on that ship who keeps it secret from the crew and has a hidden Agenda... much like Ash from Alien.... but would they re-tred a done before concept?
2) I think the Synopsis to mean reads as though the crew of the Covenant are suprised and unaware of anything they find. They would have expected this Uncharted World to be different than the scene of disaster they find. They would be suprised to find another David Android (assuming Covenant has one). the Synopsis seems to point me towards the crew not expecting anything that they find... which would rule out going to LV-223 and any knowledge of the Engineers or anything from Prometheus... apart from that maybe it was a ship that was destined for a journey to a World that held clues maybe of our creation but it had suffered a mishap... i dont think the crew of the Covenant would be aware of what went down.
So what they find is unexpected for them.
3) The Synopsis indicates that Paradise is futher away than LV-223 but we have to remember Prometheus Synopsis indicated a World that is on the darkest reaches of the Universe... but Dark could be as far as Sinister and not far distances... I would assume due to the Plot of Prometheus and Alien Franchise and certain loop holes, i dont think Paradise would be close to Earth. The Engineers afterall would not conduct such experiments on their own Door Step* (this could be a massive massive Clue). ill cover after.
*Note Skip to 4) for fast reading.... point 3 is that Paradise is some futher distance away and i think the Covenant would have departed Earth to this Earth Like Uncharted World between mid 2070's and 2100.. below just details why i think this is the case.
So and i will only go by official Information regarding Covenant (so have to throw out the 600 Light Year distance in the constellation Ophiuchus that a source told me about).
And so unless we are touching upon Worm Holes and the like (which i hope we dont as far as how the Covenant reaches Paradise) then we have to go with distances a ship can travel is the Ships FTL Speed X number of years travel for the Prometheus that was approx 2 years for 39 Light Years approx that gives us a theoretical Prometheus class Speed of 20 Light years per year. And why would it be any faster? if it was then surely a dying Peter Weyland would have wanted to get to LV-223 as soon as possible and if there was other ships at that time that could travel faster then why did Weyland not use one of those? Unless Yutani only possessed faster ships and he did not want them knowing about the Mission. (But secretly they did).
We dont know for sure the Speeds of Ships within the Franchise up until the year 2104 as only 3 classes of Ship are mentioned.. the Heliades (2034) of which Prometheus (2072) is a newer, safer and faster vessel "Prometheus can take us to KOI-2410 and beyond, past the furthest of our Weyland-built worlds," says Concordov. "Where Heliades leaves off, Prometheus picks up. And this is just the beginning" This implies that the 2072 Prometheus class is faster than the 2034 Heliades but we have no Data on the Heliades Speeds... Next Ship in the Franchise mentioned is the Nostramo Class (2101) that has a FTL Speed of 47 Light Years per year approx.
As of now we dont know how far Paradise is, all we know is the Covenant arrives in the year 2104 approx.... 10 years after Prometheus. Now all we are left with is assumptions that Ships prior to 2093 can only travel at upto 20LY/Year we do not know if any ships between then and 2100 can travel the speeds the Nostramo does at upto 47LY/Year.
So we have no information regarding the distance or date of reparture for the Covenant, but we can only assume that as the movie has a Doupleganger to David and so lets assume its a David 8 then the Covenant would have had to had set off after the year 2073 putting a theoretical range at same speeds as Prometheus at a maximum of about 600 Light Years. But then the Manager of the Costume designs sugested only David 8 has the Old Space Suits, but old could be as far as the design for the movie i.e Prometheus Production was earlier than Covenants and not in regards to Alien Time Line.... But if we assume this is after Prometheus and after the faster Nostramo class ships then one of those setting off in 2101 would have a range of 140 Light Years.
But we cant take any of these Speeds as fact as the Weyland Website contradicts itself as David 8 models had been onboard Heliades class Ships that then worked on the Outpost on KOI-252.1 that Weyland site has terraformed in the year 2061-2067 and at a distance of 1242 Light Years.
But we can assume that Paradise is in a location much futher and remote than LV-223, and i am going to assume this ship would either have a David 8, or a Human David lookalike (which would make this Human in there 60's by the time of 2104 not take into account Cryo Sleep).
So my ASSUMPTION is Paradise is quite far away, and the Covenant was off on a Long Mission to a uncharted Paradise, which i assume means that they had detected a Earth Like World that would support life with little or no Terraforming required... And so they set off a Colony Ship to investigate and travel to this distant World.... And so i assume this ship departed Earth from the Mid 2070's to 2100.
4) Fassbender will play two roles... David 8 and a Doupleganger this would most likely be either another David 8 onboard the Covenant or a Human that they based David 8's appearence on, David 8 Model was released in 2072 and i find it no Coinsidence this is the same time as the newer upgraded Heliades craft the Prometheus Class in the same year.
While the two roles of David could mean he is Evolved at some point, Ridley did say Fassbender will play two versions of David, two roles. and then the Doupleganger comment points to there being Two Seperate David 8's or a David 8 and a Lookalike... The emphasis of the Synopsis was on the Covenant find a "Synthetic" and why would Ridley mention Doupleganger instead of Fassbender will play Two Davids.....
I am assuming that the Doupleganger is Human, and onboard the Covenant and this would lead to a interesting Dynamic as David who craves to be accepted and more Human meets his Doupleganger who has the wishes that David wants... but then David would know he is superior.
I think the Covenant would thus have either another David 8 Android, or a Human that has Davids likeness... i like the latter idea as it would be a twist... and open up a interesting Dynamic....
If it is a Human counterpart then this also open up a theory on the Covenants timeline.. as if all Davids from Model 1 are based of a Actual Human those models came out in 2025 which would put the likeness of David at about 110-115 by the time of Covenant.... now the first FTL Ships came out in the year 2034, and in Aliens they was suprised Ripley stayed in Cryo Sleep for 50 years which tells me 50 years too long to sustain life especially in the years prior to Alien 2122 Technology.... So for this Likeness to had been the basis for David 1, and to be on Covenant in the year 2104 would mean he would have to had spent 60-70 years in Cryo Sleep.
So i am Assuming the later David models either 7 or 8 2068-2072 have this Doupleganger likeness, which would support the Covenant being a ship that is Newer than 2072 Prometheus Class. And thus the Covenant departed Earth between mid 2070's and 2100.
5) Paradise is or was Uncharted Paradise.... the Synopsis sends me down the path that the Covenant Colony ship is sent off to explore a detected potential Earth like World that would be a Paradise because it would be very Earth Like and require little or no Terraforming. But when they reach this destination they find it is nothing like the World they had expected...
Now the Covenant would know the World is more Baron and Dark, if this place was like it before they departed... so at the time the Covenant set off on its Mission Paradise was a potential Paradise to them..... but there are a few things that could have happened.
a) By the time David arrived on Paradise which has to be before the Covenant, in the 10 years between Prometheus and Covenant David arrives at Paradise and does he discover a baron World... are there no Engineers... or does the Covenant arrive after the aftermath of what Ever David got upto after he landed... remember "he was bringing Hell with him (Cargo)"
b) Paradise had suffered some disaster prior to Davids arrival.... if we consider a Star System far away lets say you was a Alien Race in a System 500 Light years away and you detect Earths system and the potential this system could sustain life... as it could have a Earth like World...... if our Sun was to all of a sudden go Super Nova.... then this Alien Race 500 Light Years away would not see our Sun/Star disapear in the sky for 500 years... if they set off a mission to Earth that would take them say 50 years by the time they got here... Earth would not be here at all.
So its possible that by the time Covenant arrives the World they arrive at is no longer the Paradise that any surveys and satellites/telescopes etc detected it could be...
Supporting Evidence..... Paradise that they find is a Dark and Dangerous World a World that is the scene of a Disaster..... but the movie will have shooting Locations that contain Monumental Forest and Monumental rock and New South Wales Shooting Locations look very Lush and abudant with Life.... a Paradise. What role can these locations play if Covenant is set in Space and Paradise, and not on Earth?
6) Engineers... i would think the movie would show us Engineers, or something of the Engineers past and Paradise from a time it was a Paradise.. due to the Shooting Locations and comments above. The crew of the Covenant do not find Paradise but a Dark Dangerous World that has seen Disaster..... i would assume Paradise has been changed either by David's hands when he arrives.. (does he find no Engineers or beigns?) Or we could have a Flash Back Scene like the Sacrifcial Scene in Prometheus on a Primordial World... but this time we get a Scene set on Paradise before what ever Disaster had left such a world Dark and Dangerous.
Micheal Biehn said Alien: Covenant is set thousands of years before Aliens... well 2104 is not thousands of years and so there has to be a Scene or Scenes set in the past.... this would explain the Monumental Forest locations.
7) The crew of the Covenant discover something Evolving on the world of the Engineers, i assume that they're refers to the crew of the Covenant, more than David and Shaw. But it could mean David and Shaw but Shaw does not appear in the Synopsis and only plays a small role.
So i assume the Covenant arrive at this World, that is now Dangerous and Dark, and find a David 8 from the Prometheus and something Evolving that they (Engineers) had created... now either what they find
a) Something Evolving from thousands of years ago, as a result of the Disaster and maybe disapearence of the Engineers on Paradise... and David locates the remnants of the Organism that caused such Disaster. And plans to lure the Covenant into a trap. Or has David unleashed this Organism upon a Sacrifice? Shaw or other Being found?
b) David has used the Cargo he had optained from LV-223 to create something and so its created via the Engineers Evil Biology that they had created. But would he not need a Sacrifice to create something.. is that what becomes of Shaw? or any Beings they found?
c) David uses the Cargo on something that was on Paradise, and it is Evolved at the hands of David.
The Movie is to show us the Origins somehow... but its not until the next two movies after that we would get a direct link to Alien and that Cargo on the Derelict and the Space Jockey. So at very least this movie will in part show us something related to the Xeno...
8) We shall see all stages of the Xenomorph... Egg, Face-Hugger, Chest Buster and Big Boy, the movie must show us these Stages... and it seems to imply the Classic Xenomorph but we can not be 100% sure if we are only touching upon the Origin of the Xeno, and LV-426 would not be covered until latter movies.
These leaves us with these Stages, and it may be only a small portion of Screen time and not a fully fledged Xeno Fest! i would also assume Davids Cargo would be used to introduce something different. So how do we see these 4 stages of the Alien?
a) Do we see the crew of Covenant fall victim to the Traditional Xeno Egg/Face Huger, does Paradise have these Eggs on that World..... i would assume it has a Flash Back Scene, set thousands of years ago... does this show something else that would thousands of years latter end up Evolving into Eggs on Paradise?
b) Do we see David using the Cargo somehow replicate the condtions required to create the Traditional Xeno, does his Cargo contain a different stand of DNA than the other ship on LV-223... they sugest something is evolving prior to the Covenant crew arriving... could it be something evolved at the hands of David and the Cargo.. and is this evolution the result of his Cargo being used on Shaw, other beings (Engineers) or used on some Organism left behind from thousands of years ago.... and this is how we are re-introduced to the Xeno.
c) Do we see a Flash Back Scene set thousands of years ago, that show us the Classic Xenomorph in its 4 stages.... and what David and the Covenant find is something evolved from this.... or David evolves the Xenomorph that is left behind into something new... or something that is left behind is evolved into the Xenomorph.
These are the 7 points that i can make from information and the Synopsis...
I have some ideas of how we move from this to the next movies to link to Alien, but i feel i would keep this to what we shall see in Covenant... so i will next make a Synopsis Plot based on those 7 points.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Great topic idea BigDave! Nice to keep track of the facts in a simple manner.
Predator: Badlands - coming November 7th, 2025
"Micheal Biehn said Alien: Covenant is set thousands of years before Aliens."
I don't mind Flashbacks.... *if* they deal with the main characters. Just flashing back to show some Engineers wandering around, 'doing stuff' will fail. ...I think we need some divested interest. To see through a main characters eyes. Shaw's Flashback/dream in Prometheus is a good example. I care about Shaw....the scene was interesting. If they flashback or show holo videos of the Engineers in the old days...I'm not sure that would work. Unless we get to be friends with one of the long lived Engineers? Conan Stevens? But... I still don't think it would work.
Don't really want to watch archeology.
I think there is a good chance we shall see Flash Back Scenes.... if we disregard Micheal Biehns comment about the movie being set thousands of years ago.....
We still have the description of the Forest Location and Covenant expecting Paradise but finding a Dark World that has seen Disaster.... while its not FACT, i do think these shooting locations that will be in New South Wales, dont fit in with what Paradise is described as..... but it would fit in as far as a World that is thriving with Life, and a Perfect Habitat to Start a Colony on.
I find it somewhat hard that David in the space of less than 10 years can turn a Paradise to a Baron and Dark Wasteland... thats assuming Paradise is such a place.... maybe he could do, but i think the Black Goo Bio Weapon would Evolve lots of Life on Such a World... including Plant Life... as shown in the Fire and Stone Comics...
Maybe the Xenomorph was just one part of a War or Disaster, that would turn such a Paradise into a Dark Dangerous World... but then Dangerous could mean the way the Forest and Life within is now Evolved into something more Sinister, due to Xeno DNA?
Maybe however some event thousands of years ago or after could have caused such a change to a once Paradise? I cant see how they will and can sidestep, what transpired in the 10 years since David and Shaw left LV-223 and are we to assume David and Shaw arrive at Paradise that has less Engineer Life than LV-223 did.... are they any at all left? If there is non then it sort of goes against any plans for following on from Prometheus. But we cant rule out that this is the case and we are left with a Baron World with no Engineers... so no Answers for Shaw.
But i am sure the fans would want to know why, and if there is no Engineer civilisation then what had became of this... and how is the Xeno connected... because LV-223 suffered a catastrophe 2000 years ago aswell, and they was experimenting on or creating something from the Evil Biology that is connected to the Xenomorph..
I cant see Two more movies, that would carry on from the aftermath of Covenant and then give us the connections to Alien and the Space Jockey... not as far as direct timeline of events from Prometheus ===> Covenant ===> Part 3 ===> Part 4 ===> Alien.
So i think at some point we shall explore what ever caused such a Downfall of the Engineer Empire.... and i cant rule out a teaser to this as a Flash Back in the next movie... it would make more sense and tick all the boxes.
*Micheal Biehns comment... thousands of years ago.
*LV-223 Event thousands of years ago, and the Outposts connection to Xeno DNA and the Weapon to be used on Mankind.
*The Derelict and how it seemed to be there for longer than upto 18 years (Ridley confirmed it had been there for thousands of years.
*Ommision of Engineers in the Synopsis, when Prometheus scratched the surface of these guys and all comments before seemed to point us to the Franchise being about them.
*The Reason that Paradise would be regarded as such, but is not no longer and maybe how the monumental forest and monumental rock locations can come into play.
But then the scenes could be about Shaw and David and what Paradise was like when they arrived... we cant be 100% sure what route this would take.. but i dont think they are done as far as taking the Engineers out of the Equation.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
" i dont think Paradise would be close to Earth. The Engineers afterall would not conduct such experiments on their own Door Step* (this could be a massive massive Clue). ill cover after."
Which brings me back to this point..... unless they are going to go against what was set down in Prometheus... These Engineers had in someway produced, experimented on some Biological Warefare on that Outpost on LV-223, they did so as this was a place they could conduct and launch such Evil Weapons of Biology onto Earth....
As Prometheus implied.. these Engineers never came from LV-223 the place was merely a Outpost where they would Store and maybe even create Cargos of Bio-Weapons. And they would use the LV-223 outpost instead of create such things on their own Doorsteps.
So we have to ask, how can the planet of the Engineers (Paradise) be a place where we find these beigns had created such Evil Biology, when Prometheus claimed they would not be as foolish to conduct such experiments in their own Back Yard!
But we are talking a Origins Story... eventually... but the Origins could be that of the Xenomorph itself as opposed to Bio Weapon Black Goo that we saw on LV-223.... but if the Xeno predates the creation of those Urns... then why is the creation and experiments with the Black Goo seen as more deadly...?
Well the Black Goo, can potentially be more hazardous...
So we have to assume the Biology that went into those Urns, was not created on Paradise.. they was either created from something from Paradise.... or maybe Paradise is where the basic form of the Goo came from (Sacrificial).
So then how does the Xeno related creature evolve on Paradise? is it something David brought with him.... and how does this fit in with what remains of the Engineers.. surely David cant wipe out all of them with his Bio-Weapon especially if the Engineers know about the Juggernaught ships and there purpose and LV-223.
Unless a War had occuried years ago, where the Xenomorph or the Biology related to it was used on Paradise.... maybe it was made on LV-223 but somehow it had got to Paradise.
The Synopsis and information does not say the Creature... and Origin of the Xeno... was created on Paradise... just that we see it created or unleashed on Paradise as far as maybe arriving at Paradise at some place?
Unless the Engineers really are that Stupid.
So if any of this is touched upon vaguley... maybe it requires
* Flash Backs like the Sacrificial Scene.
*David can read from hieroglyphs on Paradise, or some other method of information the Engineers had, be that on Paradise.. or David peices it together after leaving LV-223. And if so does David relay these findings verbally.. like how Janek mentioned how he had to Nuke a Facility because some Scientists had spilt something...? As opposed to how the Sacrifical Scene showed us the seeding of Engineer DNA in a visual way.
*Hollogram Scenes again... which i dont think would be the ideal way to go.. but we cant rule out a few..
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think the story needs to be far from Earth. For continuity..... The Covenant or Prometheus is never mentioned in the Alien verse. The events that befall the Prometheus and Covenant crew should be closed from the Alien universe. Just a one off.
You should be able to watch the prequels and then watch Alien/Aliens/3/4 without thinking: Why isn't Earth/Nostromo talking about the Prometheus or Covenant fatalities? The Earth system would be in lockdown mode if word of the Engineers and space monsters reached them!.....No, It's business as usual in the 22nd century...sending families to terraform worlds! Monsters? Never heard of such things..Covenant? What's that?
"The events that befall the Prometheus and Covenant crew should be closed from the Alien universe"
I fully agree and its one of the loop holes they need to adress... LV-223 being the big one... but from Ridleys comments, it seems that they have a connection with this movie with Alien 5, so i think Prometheus, Covenant and Engineers will be mentioned to some extent in the next Alien movie by Blomkamp.
I think it would be a ideal, idea for them to have it that the Engineer Ship and Xeno they get their hands on in Alien 5 would be from the aftermath of Covenant as opposed to the Derelict or LV-223.
The next 3 movies in the prequel series will lead up to connecting to Alien, and explaining Alien but Ridley uses the term the Back Door and Back End, and i think this implies that the events of the time line post 2104 and 18 years after do not directly lead to the Derelict... i.e the Derelict and its Cargo are on LV-426 more than 18 years prior to Alien.
But who knows... maybe they are making a U-Turn and having it directly connected but i cant see how a crew of a Colony Ship, David and his Doppelganger and a Evolving Monster on Paradise.. are all going to take up 2 more movies based just on that lot.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
While i wanted to keep this thread to Alien: Covenant i will discus things from other movies that fit in with what is said in Covenant...
Ridley has sugested if you read into his comments.
*They (Covenant crew) are going to the Planet of the Engineers. (same Paradise David and Shaw was going to).
*They will find a Evolving Creature (Xeno DNA related) that is implied the Engineers Created (or at very least the Engineers Evil Biology).
*We will find out who and why it was created and why they (Engineers) would have such Bio-Mechanical Bio-Weapons and why it is Bio-Mechanical and a Bio-Weapon.
If we are to see this things as in context of the Next Movie, or maybe some points like the last are what they are leading towards in a second movie...
We have to simply ask......
How are they going to show us that the Engineers played a role in this Organism, and reasons for its creation. Without touching upon the Engineers. Even if we dont see any Engineers so if we look at Prometheus and imagine all the Engineers was dead, and there was no Hologram Scenes. We would thus get mild clues, scenes of distruction and maybe David being able to interpret things and narate to the Covenant what went down.
This would raise Questions... I think the main problems with Prometheus as far as reception was.
1)There was no Answers to Alien as far as the Xeno/Eggs and how it got on the Derelict.
2)We never saw any Xenomorphs or even much Xeno-esque Organisms runing around killing people, Egg Morphing people, Chest Busting... apart from the last Scene.
3) The movie left us with clues to a connection between the Engineers/Space Jockey, the LV-223 Outpost and Xeno DNA/Urn Cargo and Derelict/Juggernaught and it seemed to show hints the Engineers created this Organism but it never answered the Questions and just left more... including they created us and then wanted to destroy us with the Xeno or related Biology.
So having unanswered Questions is one thing that was Negative about the movie, if they now give Fans Xenos, Chest Busters, Face Huggers etc but then even less clues to the Engineers connection to this than even Prometheus had shown, and no Engineers in this movie or the others.. i think it would in part leave just as big a problem to some as far as WHY/WHEN and HOW.....
I think the bigger premise for Prometheus was the Space Jockey, and they was more than a Race who had a Cargo of Xeno Eggs.... They opened up a big Plot for these beings, and Questions left after such REVELATIONS. This was the Premise of doing a sequel.
So are we to assume and be shown the following?
*We arrive at a World that has no inhabitants apart from David 8 and a Evolving Organism. If they are going the route the Engineers played a roll in this Organism, would viewers not want to know what this connection is and who was these beings.. and those who saw Prometheus would already know but not know enough. Or do we simply get no answers...
*How can they cover the How, Who and Why if its linked to the Engineers, if we dont even get a mention of clues... and if we got just a mention of clues then surely Fans would want to see these Engineers and surely future movies would have to answer this..? for those who already knew about the Engineers from Prometheus they would want to see the connection too and may feel the Engineers cant be left unresolved. Fans not familar with Prometheus would no doubt find something about it in the next movie as they cant just Show David 8 and not explain who he is, where he is from etc... Even if not much is mentioned... just that he was from the Doomed Prometheus Mission, and now he is on Paradise that is connected to Xeno DNA or even show David has a Engineer Ship/Derelict... Fans who never saw Prometheus would want to go see this or at least look into what it was all about..
They then would have more Questions about who these Engineers are... etc.
*We know and unless they are doing a U-Turn or we are to de-canonize Prometheus.. We know the Engineers and Space Jockey, the Derelict/Juggernaught and the Xeno/Bio Weapons on LV-223 are connected. We know the Engineers did not come from LV-223, and that place was just a Outpost they stored, maybe created or experimented on Bio-Weapons and that they did not do this on their own Door Step.... so how did such a Weapon end up on Paradise.
*We see no signs of the Engineers, yet they are hinted to play a role in the Xeno, and related Biology, never mind the creation of Mankind and Life in the Galaxy (maybe only those who saw Prometheus would known this). Do they simply leave the Fact Paradise is a place that has no inhabitants of the beings who used to be there.. or no answers to what had caused this place to once be a place where Ancient civilization had called it Home. And what happened to them.
*Having built such a back story for the Engineers, and now we are still going to the place these biengs came from and seeing a Organism Evolving they had played a part in its creation. How can they not cover this... from NOW and over the next TWO movies.
*Are they going to leave it a Mystrey like the Space Jockey was all those years ago? Even if they cover nothing, if Covenant is Canon to Prometheus then those who would have seen that movie would know its not a case of a Mystrey like the Space Jockey... but a Story they had strung Clues to then just completely avoid?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
*There will be a Chest Buster Scene that would be more gruesome than the 1979 Original
This update could be read into as maybe they are going more back to the Original Movie as far as a Horror vibe, and tense thriller roller coaster.... Alien showed us just one Monster hunting down the small crew of the Nostramo... Alien 3 carried this idea on a Prison Colony on Fiorina 161
To me i like to look into things deeply, and to me the comments by Ridley about a Chest Buster Scene that they intend will beat the Original would have to mean one of two things... which can evolve into more detail.
1) There will be multiple Chest Buster events at the same time, so the viewers are shown the horror of seeing maybe some taken ill Colonists in some kind of Medical Bay, and so maybe 2-4 who are infected and we see them all Chest Busted at the same time...
Then we see the crew hunted down by 2-4 Xenomorphs or related Organisms.... But we dont know how many people would be on the Covenant, its a Colony Ship and so i would assume its crew would be more than the Nostramos 6 Crew Members (inc Ash)... but how many would a Colony Ship have? I would say they would need 1X Captain Role, 1-2 Medical, 1-2 Pilots, 1-2 Engineers so that would be a Core of 4-7 plus Colonists which could include Children and so we have to assume at least another 5-10. We cant know for sure but i would assume we would be looking at a Total of at least 12 and upto 25 would be my Guess.
But seeing more than one Chest Buster would only work, if its a Scene that we see multiple people being chest busted at the same time... why in The 1982 Thing movie the Blood Test Scene was the most intense... for similar reasons.
The only other ways for a Alien Topping Chest Buster Scene are one of these Two. (or combined)
2) The Scene happens to someone we have made a connection too and so Shaw, or it is done to a Child.
3) The Scene is either done with a different Chest Buster, but Ridley hinted we would see all 3 stages of the Monster, and its Origins but the Origin Clues could be done at a different timeframe.. i.e thousands of years ago... and what we see in Alien Covenant is a Evolution and slightly different Chest Buster..... one that has a more gruesome way of breaking out of the Host.
As we have all scene the Chest Buster and depending how this is shown... i.e 1) or 2) if neither of those routes are taken then how different can a Classic Chest Buster Scene be over the old one from Alien?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
So i am going to follow the above regarding the "improved and more gruesome Chest Buster Scene" as something they want to showcase as a Money Shot moment from the Movie, something they plan to Top the Original...
And if this is SO SPECIAL..... seeing it done a few times would Water it Down....
So maybe the comment Ridley has made would indeed lead us to maybe there would be ONLY ONE MONSTER..... as far as Xenomorph goes... thus going back to something like Alien.
We may see more than one Monster if we are being shown different timeframes, or flash backs... but as far as what ever Horror that the Unaware Human Colonists on the Covenant stumble upon... i think it would have to be just One Monster at least to start... or One as far as a Chest Buster related to that time frame.
I could be wrong... but if Ridley shows us a truely horrific Chest Buster Scene that shows us one Monster on the lose.... latter having a few more Chest Buster events may take the Shine off what ever they have Special Planned.
So i read into this Clue that we are going the route of maybe for the most part seeing just One Monster Stalking and Killing the crew of the Covenant.... Maybe they could show us this Creature as having a Life Cycle extention... i.e we see it Lay Eggs or Egg Morph the Crew.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I can see David getting involved with the chest burster scenes. David can tell them their scans show 'nothing out of the ordinary' after many of them were 'facehugged'.
David 8 "You all seem to be just fine....Now a little rest...."
David slipped up by telling Shaw she was pregnant.....He should have let her find out for herself and David would have had a wonderful specimen to examine.......What if Shaw had the baby? Stomach burster!
I think HEAD BURST would be cool...Maybe they force the baby xeno back the way it came? Pop!
Headbuster..... yes that would certainly be spectacular.
As far as David and Shaws Pregnancy we have to remember, David can not directly lie, he can use methods to side step things that prevent certain things happening. We have to assume he could not simply spike Holloways Drink.... he had to allow Holloway to give him a reason to do so.. i.e "how far would you go to get your answers" Holloway replies "anything and everything" We do have to bare in mind that Davids intentions were premeditated, he came into that room with the Goo on his finger and so he was just looking for a way to Justify his Actions.
I do think David has a little more free will then the crew would have liked to think, and now his Master is Dead he is Free, and maybe after having his Head Torn off there could be Damage to him that leads to certain protocols regarding behaviour of the Androids to be compremised... mind you Ash was also a bit Twitchy as Bishop put it.
I think the premise of the Synopsis sugests the Covenant Crew are completely unware of LV-223 the Horrors, the Engineers Cargo and what ever is Evolving on Paradise.
I think its also unlikely David would infect multiple crew Members without getting caught, i would think the route Ridley is going is that the Covenant Crew will be just as unprepared for what is going to happen just as the Nostramo and Prometheus crews were.
Maybe thus non of the Covenant Crew are infected? Maybe only Shaw is infected or a Engineer?
If David infects Shaw... this could back up the Synopsis.... maybe they find David, and then he informs them of Shaw and how she has suffered some complications due to their journey and if the ship has a medical bay they can take Shaw onboard..... I would assume David has to persaude them to allow himself to conduct all tests and care of Shaw, as he would not want any prying eyes on what the crew are taking onboard....
This assumes... this is how Shaw plays into it....
I wont buy them allowing another movie to show Crew being so stupid to allow something onboard.... however we have to remember Ripley wanted to prevent it in Alien and it was Ash with his Agenda and Special Order 937 and in Prometheus it was David again a Android who was the one pulling the Strings.
So again maybe David gets involved again, i think this is Garunteed... but i am not sure that the Covenant crew would take onboard a Xeno Egg.... But who knows maybe a Colony Ship has less Safety Protocols and maybe it has less trained Staff than the Prometheus did?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think a lot is open to be honest... we cant be sure... yes Ridley said we shall see them all Egg, Face Huger and Chest Buster then Big Boy...
Lets not forget Prometheus showed us a Egg.... in the fresco only on screen we did not see it but for a fraction of a second and it was partially disintegrated.... Lets not Forget Prometheus only showed us ONE LAST Engineer as far as Live time of events.... but we had the Sacrifical Flash Back Scene, that the extended one showed a Elder... and the more extended one we never saw showed two up close and another 5-6 in the distance.... Lets not forget the Hollogram Scene showed some 8 Hologram Running Ghost Engineers and latter 4 Engineers in the Juggernaught Pilot/Orrey Room.
So we can not assume the Xeno in all its guises is set within the time of 2104 and Covenant... so that leaves Covenant Timeline to show us something New and Fresher... thats based off the Xeno that has Evolved?
Or maybe not.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Well, I certainly hope David has moved on from being a slave. Weyland is dead...no more cleaning his feet or picking up after the crew. I wonder if he can re-program himself? Maybe taking up human traits such as lying, cheating and murder. I would suspect the android Bishop has some chilling stories to tell about the David android series!
Does the Covenant have children aboard? Aliens/Cameron didn't seem to have any problems sending kids into space(LV-426!)
I hope they don't go down this path(and no teenagers please!)....Like to see just adults.
I will try to add some to this, hopefully it won't be a mess.
First Paradise: Paradise for who? If we mean that Paradise is something nice then nice depends on your point of view. Let's say that it is the home base/planet of the Engineers then maybe the Engineers have a different view of what Paradise is. Is the disaster just at one part of the planet or at the whole planet?
Let's say that they find Paradise then I would like to know how does it look like? How is the Engineer society structured/built up? What role does religion play? How is their society based political speaking (I think for example about the Elder Engineers that I think that they had in a cut scene from P1 about the Engineer that sacrificed itself)? Do they have science? Do they have art?
The Xenomorph: It would be cool if they explain some bits about it but maybe not everything. I feel that good movies while being logical at least when it comes to sci-fi need some mystery also. They probably need to explain it in a clever way or else many might be let down. One problem is that it has been done many times now so how is it possible to make it interesting?
I would like if David has a bigger role in this movie. Shaw isn't very interesting, sorry. Hopefully they will have better characters this time that don't do stupid things (petting a space snake, getting lost despite being a map expert) and that are characters that you care for. Too many characters in Prometheus were simply badly written or if it was edited so it became that way. Prometheus was alright but it could have been so much better so hopefully they have learned something this time.
@ Thoughts_Dreams
Thanks for comments, firstly and while be off Topic.. yes Prometheus the Characters where not so well written, but a number where merely Plot Devices to be canon fodder or play no real role.... only Characters who played a roll are... David, Shaw, Weyland, Vickers, Holloway, Milburn, Fifield, Janek, Ravel, Chance and Ford... Thus other 8 Characters were Throw Away Plot devices... You could argue that Ford, Chance and Ravel also fall into this Category.... but Aliens also had a lot of throw away Characters... Main Characters in Order i feel was Ripley, Hicks, Bishop, Newt, Burke, Hudson, Gorman, Alpone and Vasquez with Drake, Fero and Spunkmeyer being kind of throw away Characters the rest was just Plot Devices.
But yes the Characters in Prometheus could have been done better, some scenes are bit khorny and not serious for a serious Sci Fi Movie..... many was never used to well.
As far as the stupid things, well Lindeloffs draft had better explanations for such stupid Scenes. Milburn and Fifield forgot the Map... they thought each other had it and it ws Fifield who was HIGH of what ever he was smoking who picked up the Hammerpede.
I think Ridley would learn from their mistakes... and maybe the cast and thus crew of the Covenant would not be so large? But i would still think a Ship would need at least 1X Captain, 1X Main Pilot, 1X Medic, 1X Mechanic thats 4 and then i would say at least another 6 Characters that would include at least The Hardman/Merc, the Fool/Joker, The Selfish/Back stabber, and at least one maybe two Science related Roles and off course the David double be that a synthetic or not.. so yes that would be 9 Crew at very least.... then a few throw away canon fodder characters... i would say at least 3-4 and so yes i think we would see at least 12 Crew, which i think for a Colony Ship we would need at least 10 crew... with at least 4 to be Female. So i can Assume we have..
F) Daniels-- Captain or joint Captain Role
M) Pilot who may play Captain or joint leader role
M) The Hardman Role... maybe joint leader?
F) Medic.. always go to be a naughty nurse.. of not then Female play Science role.
M) Mechanic... well main one tasked with fixing the Ship.
M) Science related Role.
F) Science related Role.
M) The cockey joker role, who could be extra Pilot, Science team or Mechanic?
M/F) One who has a Agenda or selfish nature who only cares for themselves.
Then i think a extra 3-4 other crew maybe of which at least one must be Female..
This is just a guess mind ;)
So yes if so i hope the main 9 (min) Crew members and the David doppelganger are more well written..
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
As far as Paradise Goes... lets explore the Clues....
Ridley claimed Paradise is a Dark and Sinsister World... he claimed its not nothing like what you would expect from Paradise, these claims Ridley has made over the years.
The Engineer claimed he came from a place, that David said we refer to as Paradise, and now we have to then think in context of the Plot what does this mean? It means as far as the place where the Gods/Creators came from.. if we look at the context of the Bible it could mean the place where creation was made, and where Mankind was created before our Fall and then expulsion from Paradise..... this does not have to mean its a place like the Garden of Eden or like Heaven at all, it does not have to be nothing more than a Science Lab.... which LV-223 was also such.
Rappace said they are off to a World, and may find God or the Devil and so the place may not be a Heaven or Paradise but more of a Hell.... this does not have to mean Fire and Brimstone as in the Bible... or a Garden of Eden/Heaven Paradise.... it could be like LV-223 and sinsister and dark or maybe the motives are as such rather than the worlds Topography!
Ridley said that he had some ideas for a Aliens Sequel after Alien, where they would have expanded on who the Space Jockey was, and he claimed they always felt LV-426 was Paradise but Paradise does not have to be anything but dark and sinister.
Ridley has been touching upon Ancient Culture and Bible and Greek Mythos as far as Gods and the Engineers Connection and so Paradise could be a interpretation of the place these Gods came from... but again this does not have to be a splendid Garden of Eden Paradise but it does not have to be a Burning Lake of Fire Hell.... it could be quite plain.. like LV-223. The Paradise Lost Link could also go hand in hand with that.
However... we also have to look at the following...
The Crew of the Covenant thought they would discover uncharted Paradise... which has to mean a World that does not require as much Teraforming, in other Words a World that as far as to use as a new Colony is Perfect, and so Earth Like World... but they arrive at a Scene of Disaster and a Dark and Dangerous World. This could imply it was once a Place more like a Garden of Eden and Earth Like Paradise.. but it is no Longer...
The description of how they are going to use Monumental Forest and Rock to me implies the Topography of the World.... maybe as in the past before what ever Distaster took place to make the world as it is when the Covenant Crew arrive (maybe prior to David too) and could explain why the Homeworld of the Engineers... is Baron and Void of Life. (apart from a evolving creature and David).
So i would assume that Paradise was indeed a Paradise prior to the Fall of Man, and Fall of the Engineers and what ever War or Calamity befell such Ancient Race who play a key role in creation in the Galaxy and maybe Paradise was once the Cradle of Life... but no more...
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"Do they have science? Do they have art?"
This is very evident... they are masters of Science... their ships, their Technology is very advanced, they played a key role in the Manipulation of Genetic Material and DNA to create Life on Earth and Evolution of Mankind not only as far as Genetically but Technologically and maybe also Cultually and Religiously.
(Nevermind creation of Evil Bio Weapons and Biology).
They hold Ritual Purpose very high, Religon and Worship too, they are very proud of what they create and the role they play... The Head Statue, the Mural and Frescos show this... but these also show a Artistic Side to such a Race. Musical Art could play a key roll aswell, but with intruments and soundwaves playing bigger role than just a Melody as we have.. The movies clues lend to this.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017