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Zeta II Reticuli, a weapons development facility?

Gavin

MemberTrilobiteJune 19, 201612639 Views36 Replies
Zeta II Reticuli, a weapons development facility?

Not too long ago I created a graphic novel called Prometheus: Absolution, in which I hypothesized how the derelict Juggernaut ended up on LV-426. Many of you appreciated the work, citing it as the most probable explanation as to the lone Engineer pilots fate. With Alien: Covenant having ignited a new wave of discussions into the Alien franchise many of us are again looking at the movie series with fresh eyes, noticing things we never realized before. As such I have looked back at the graphic novel and realized that unfortunately, it's all a load of rubbish, because of one inconsistency that has been a topic of debate since the first movie was released - the notorious egg silo or chamber.

Up until 2012's Prometheus the underside of the derelict Juggernaut had never been seen on screen. The measurements of the model used for the alien craft in behind the scenes material's showed that the egg silo could not be part of the vessel, leading some fans to theorize that the compartment was the interior of a structure hidden on the moon, echoing elements from the original script that were abandoned during production of the 1979 classic that featured a pyramid.

In Prometheus Captain Janek infers that LV-223 was a weapon storage facility built by the Engineers to store the deadly biological weapon, and the two Juggernaut's depicted in the movie, and the holographic mapping of the alien craft clearly confirm that the egg silo cannot feasibly exist beneath the platform used by the Engineer to pilot the craft, though it was shown that Juggernauts do carry a cargo of many thousands, possibly millions of urns containing the deadly biological weapon stored on LV-223.

It would seem highly likely, if not certain that the egg silo is part of an Engineer created structure on Acheron LV-426 used to store the Xenomorph eggs. With at least one of the multiple facilities on LV-223 containing urns carrying a biological agent "tainted" with Xenomorph DNA and at least one facility on LV-426 containing Xenomorph eggs, educated speculation would suggest that the two moons are part of a biological weapon factory, with each moon housing a different stage in the weapons development. With there being three moons in orbit around Calpamos, our speculation can reasonably suggest that the third, unnamed moon may likely have at least one Engineer created structure used as part of the development of the deadly biological weapon known by fans as the "Black Goo."

If we assume that the structure(s) on LV-426 was used to house the raw materials - the Xenomorph eggs, with the facilities on LV-223 known for being used to store the weapon developed from the eggs on LV-426. Logic would dictate that the facility we have speculated to be on the third moon is therefore used to create the deadly weapon. The Xenomorphs ability to metamorphose organic hosts into eggs incubating a Xenomorph Facehugger seems directly related to the deadly weapons ability to genetically infect victims with Xenomorph attributes. With the black goo developed from Xenomorph eggs it would suggest that the results of the black goo - the Trilobite and the Deacon, were not examples of the proto-form of the Xenomorph, but a weaponized variant of the creature, to be used to wipe out entire ecosystems and not just the hosts that inhabit them.

As to where the eggs come from still remains a mystery, and therefore, the Xenomorphs origin also remains unknown, maintaining the mystery. However, it is possible that there are other lunar systems throughout the galaxy used by the Engineers to store the Xenomorph eggs, the urns and whatever nightmarish facility exists on Calpamos' third moon.

Unfortunately, I realize that this realization only sheds light on the moons of Calpamos, and the Engineers presence there - everything else puts us all back to square one - we don't know what happened to the lone pilot on LV-426, we don't know where else to find Xenomorph eggs, we don't know where the Engineers come from nor why they intended to use the deadly weapon on us 2000 years ago. Though it does make me wonder what the facility on the third moon looks like (Gigers Homage to Bocklin, maybe - pictured below) and the nightmarish mechanisms and alchemy it contains.

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Centauri
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@Gavin Singleton Very curious to reading your story regardless of the new info shed by Prometheus..sounds interesting! good read and good questions, the picture at the bottom of your post I wonder if it'll be in Covenant...I mean its flimed in a similar "islandy" landscape to me...the giger piece resembles a cove...a very dark bio mechanical cove at that...like a fortress?.. man i can't wait to get answers ether 

 

 

****

 "Must be something we haven't seen yet.."__Bishop

http://www.alien-covenant.com/series/

            

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Thoughts_Dreams
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Gavin: I have also wondered about the egg silo structure because if we look at the Juggernaught then it seems that the egg silo looks too big to be a part of it - at least to me. Maybe we will have to imagine that the Juggernaught and the Engineer ship in Prometheus are two different models as far as the ships go but I still wonder how the Eggs got there.

 

What we do know is that the Xeno functions as a bio weapon or at least could have been made for that purpose.

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S.M
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The ship on LV-223 is a much different design to the LV-426 ship.  The Juggernaut is a lot bigger, rounder, and flatter.

 

I see no reason that the Derelict couldn't have a lower hold that was subsequently buried.  We'll never know unless it's seen off the ground, or otherwise mapped.

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Necronom 4
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The juggernaut isn't bigger than the derelict.

Ridley has stated that the juggernaut from Prometheus is a brother ship to the derelict. Personally, I do not see a great deal of similarity between the derelict and the Prometheus juggernaut. The interior's look completely different to me. Like chalk and cheese. The latter being the cheese.

Me and (I think ) BigDave suggested that the Derelict may have been carrying some kind of giant container (the egg silo.) But on further consideration, I'm thinking that it is actually some sort of cave 

The poster was good though!

 

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S.M
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Juggernaut is 1000 ft in diameter (ie. wide). Derelict is 386 feet wide.  The Juggernaut interior look like the Derelict if the Derelict was built rather than the 'grown' look it has.

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Necronom 4
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When viewing the egg silo (matte painted, wide angled scene from the picture above.) you can clearly see that this structure is huge and couldn't possibly be a part of the ship.

It still remains a mystery to this day and I'm thankfull of that. The fact that it was originally intended to be a separate structure (a pyramid, in O'Bannon's script) and the fact that FOX wanted to cut corners to save money, resulted in a very ambiguous scene which we are still debating about 37 years on.

FOX got lucky with this particular cutting of said corner! But eventually, with every subsequent cutting of corners, the franchise would inevitably yield sub standard offerings. 

The poster was good though!

 

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Necronom 4
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Have you got those measurements from those books? All you have to do is LOOK at the derelict (you know, Ridley's intention was to make it look huge and he achieved said hugeness.) Just watch ALIEN and you will see how very huge it is. 

The poster was good though!

 

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S.M
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I know how huge it is - I measured it, and those measurements were subsequently adopted by Fox for the Blu-Ray menus.  It's just a lot smaller than the Juggernaut (measurements from the 'Art Of Prometheus' book).  And since the portion we're talking about is below ground - once again, we won't know if it's part of the ship, until it's above ground or mapped.

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Necronom 4
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However, even with it's massive size, we are still forced to suspend our disbelief that the silo is a part of the derelict purely due the scale of the matte painting, with Kane displayed as a mere dot in a huge landscape which couldn't logically be the belly of the ship.

The egg silo does however have the same interior DESIGN as the pilot chamber, which suggests to the viewer that it was built by whomever built the derelict.

The poster was good though!

 

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S.M
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When the whole chamber is below ground, the only thing being suspended is Kane.

 

And yes, the same design and hole through the floor from the cockpit to the egg chamber suggests same structure.

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Necronom 4
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Ok; can you answer the question of how a structure so obviously huge ended up buried under ground?

The poster was good though!

 

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S.M
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Same reason it was damaged when the Jordens find it in Aliens.  LV-426 is very windy and geologically active.  Lava flows, landslides, ash + time. If volcanic ash on Earth can bury houses in a matter of days or weeks - imagine what millennia could do.

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Chris
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Regardless of the size of the Juggernaut to the Derelict, the idea that the Reticuli system is a series of weapons development facilities is rather fascinating. This could, like you said Gavin could maintain that level of mystery while still expanding the story and it's questions.

I'm quite intrigued by this theory. It could work!

Predator: Badlands - coming November 7th, 2025

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Necronom 4
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With respect S.M, it just seems like you are coming up with weak explanations to support your hypothesis.

You really think that a huge structure like the egg silo became buried because of an even weaker explination by Cameron as to why the beacon got switched off? 

The poster was good though!

 

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S.M
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They walk past a bunch of geysers on their way to the Derelict in Alien, meaning it's in a geologically active area.  Doesn't have to have anything to do with Cameron.

 

And considering the obvious differences in the design of the Derelict and Juggernaut as outlined above, I think it fits better than the alternate theory, where the ship is now inexplicably above ground, while the weapons facility is below - the opposite of LV-223.

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Gavin
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Ridley Scott has always inferred and related that the egg chamber is the cargo hold of the derelict Juggernaut, yet the designer and creator of the derelict and the egg chamber H.R. Giger always saw them as separate entities and designed them as such.

Clearly as seen above the derelict was never designed with such a large cargo hold in mind. While one could argue that they would not do so in a scale miniature comparing the pilots room with the egg chamber beneath you can clearly see the vast differences in scale.

Even though Ridley Scott used his children to make the Space Jockey look bigger the pilots chamber is designed to be the center of the derelict, whereas the scale of the egg chamber dwarves Kane (two white dots on the right, pictured above). Comparing Kane in relation to the egg chamber and Kane, Dallas and Lambert entering the derelict (pictured below) an estimate, one would argue that the size of the egg chamber is at least five times the size of the derelict. comparing scales, the pilots chamber doesn't even cover the width of the egg chamber, and the egg chambers winding corridors don't even parallel the derelict above. 

It is clear from Giger's designs, shown in the movie that the egg chamber is a vast cathedral-like structure not intended to be part of the derelict. If we are to believe Ridley Scott, the majority of the craft would be buried in the ground; unearthed and in orbit it would look akin to Falcon carrying an Elephant in its claws. While it could be argued to be a container, the surrounding landscape upon which the derelict Juggernaut sit's would favor the chamber being a subterranean structure.

The Juggernaut on LV-223 is rounder and flatter than the craft on LV-426, but the designs are too similar to not be considered the same class of vessel. Maybe the LV-426 craft, much like its pilot became misshapen and warped over a prolonged period - a simple and viable suggestion to address the ships differences which IRL came about through "creative license". Think of the LV-223 Juggernaught as brand new, out of the factory, with the vessel on LV-426 being the bent out of shape.

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S.M
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They're obviously from the same culture but are way too different inside and out to be considered the same 'class' of vessel (assuming Engineers have such a thing).

 

And if one wants to bring the intent of the creators into it, the script (after the pyramid was cut) describes the chamber as a "cargo hold".

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BigDave
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The Ships Measurements have always been a bit off compared to so called sizes...

I will try and this is just roughly to give the sizes...

Prometheus Jugernaught  300M Diameter

The Juggernaught is about 5.6X its Width as its Height and its Width is about the same as its Length and Diameter so the Height of the Juggernaught is about 54M in Height the Vaginal Openings are 8.5X Smaller than the ships Height and so 6.35M High so if we are talking Feet then.

Length/Width = 1000Ft approx

Height = 178Ft approx

Entrance Height = 21ft approx

When Shaw desends from one, it looks smaller however. Again this is not first Scale Mistake Ridley has made.

And so the Actual Entrance size total for the whole Vaginal Shape when compared to actual prop size is about 18ft tall

Alien Derelict

Do this in reverse..

Vaginal Opening is about 13.5ft Total Height, the Derelict is 6-6.5X Taller than those openings.  Thus a Speculated Derelict Height is about 82-86ft

Again the Derelicts Height to Width Ratio is similar to the Juggernaughts.   At about 5.5-5.6X

Thus the Derelict must have been on average 450-470 Ft Wide....

Now bare in mind actual Prometheus openings appear to be 18ft thus the height is about 153Ft and by that measurement the Width about 858Ft  Thats a 14% difference compared to the Specs.

If we apply same 14% to the Derelict then i would assume the Derelict was 510-530Ft Wide and 93ft to 98ft Tall

This are just speculative but i think suffice to say indeed it shows the Derelict was about half the size of the Juggernaught.

So i am not sure if there are any Official Figures, i have not had by Book yet as they ran out of stock from the supplier and im pondering the Special Addition.

But Prometheus have us Juggernaught Specs of 300M Width and thus height of say 55M to round it up.

I would say the Derelict was thus about 145M Wide and 25M High...

Yet had a much bigger Cargo Hold lol

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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BigDave
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So yes there is a difference Ridley said they are brothers, and Alien Engineers was trying to set up that it could even had been the same Ship.

But mistakes are made in movies, Ridley has got scale wrong a few times, but the movies have a few little flaws if we nit pick at them.

The idea was yes Derelict/Juggernaught same thing, which evolved to similar thing.... i always felt the Derelict looked a bit fatter and a bit smaller, but not to the scale i roughly worked out.

So they are similar but it does not have to mean the same but just a smaller version, that only had one Pilot and no other Crew compared to the Larger Juggernaughts.

As for the cargo hold, yes Ridley said the Derelict was a Bomber/Bio Weapon Cargo Ship and the Cargo was Eggs and got to the Pilot.... so the Egg Silo was part of the ship!

Which is why the Juggernaught has its Cargo Urns on board too. The oversight being the size of the Egg Silo, and how it cant fit in the Derelict?

But hey Dr Who has Time and Relative Dimension (Dimensional transcendentalism) so why not the Engineers to have some parts bigger on the inside than out? LOL

But we do have to remember that the Original Intentions and Shooting was that the Egg Silo was separate to the Derelict.  But due to budget they had to make us Assume it was part of the ship and hope we dont notice the difference.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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S.M
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The openings on both ships are quite different.  The Derelict's are lower down on the hull and largely featureless, while the Juggernauts are higher up and have a lot of detailing.

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