Human to Alien morphing in Alien: Covenant and Black Goo effects on Male vs. Female hosts

Well i think Prometheus gave us clues...  but we could not rubber stamp  a one size fits all conclusion... the Sources comments have helped though.. but i dont think we need them to piece together what we could see

I dont know exactly whats up with the Goo now... or where they are going and so this would be based on the theory that the Urns dont contain the same as the Sacrificial Cup.

The whole connection made sense to me, and especially once i read Spaights Draft and we just replace Nano Scarabs with the Goo....

Spaights draft had just Scarabs in both the Sacrificial Bowl and Urns but we need to not look at this but how they worked.

Scarabs  ==>consume Organisms Genetic Material and Store its DNA. This DNA is contained in the Scarabs which when they then bite another Organism (after they have stored DNA from a Organism they have consumed)  they then pass on this stored Organisms DNA onto a new Host and this Organisms DNA is then Evolved and it has Traits of the Organism consumed via Sacrificial Scene passed onto it.

Scarab==> Consumes Engineer DNA ==>Passes it onto Early Primate ==> Mankind..

Thus Evolution from Ape to Human was not Evolution but it was a Hybrid DNA Process caused via the Sacrificial Scene.

Fifield runs into a Urn and knocks it over and we get Scarabs that then bite Fifield and we see the same effect on his DNA (its described as Foreign DNA invading his cells and mutating them) but Fifield is changed into something with Xeno Traits.

Which Logically could mean that something related to the Xenomorph was Consumed Molecule by Molecule by Sacrificial Scarabs and these Scarabs with their now Cargo of Xeno DNA inside them are caught and stored in those Urns.

Replace Scarabs with Goo and we can have the same Process...

Sacrificial Goo, breaks down Engineers DNA and the resulting Mutagen/Virus then carries the Engineers DNA and passes it onto any life it then comes into contact with causing a Hyrbid and Evolution and passing on Engineer DNA.

I assume it evolves basic life, because the World had plant life and for that it would have had to have basic life at very least in the water.

The Urns in Prometheus we see Evolve the Worms to enhance its own traits (regeneration) and pass on Xeno traits (Acid Blood) and a look similar to the Xeno Face Huger if only mild...

Fifield was confusing but not when we consider the description in the Draft (Lindeloffs) and the alternative scene and concept work.

Thus those Urns contain something that was broken down by the Sacrificial Goo... i think the Mural and Sacrificial Bowl on the altar in the Trailer adds to this especially when early drafts had the Engineer stand Cruciform as he was being broken down by the Sacrificial Goo.

This is the Basics of the Substance of Creation... from what i had taken from it... i cant say if this is now how Fox intend it.

But i will ASSUME this is correct for my next theories in relation to the OP

Now i have covered what i think the Goo does...

I can now tackle what it does in regards to this post.. I think the Goo in the Sacrificial Cup breaks down the DNA of a Organism and passes it onto others that come into contact with it... thus Sacrifice a Wolf and Humans come into contact with the resulting Goo... then we get Werewolves etc.

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But i take this Topic is regarding the Urns on LV-223 that have some strain of DNA related to the Xenomorph?

So i again assume that what ever this substance touches or what ever consumed it would have its DNA Code Re-written and have passed onto it Xeno DNA while at the same time Evolve its best traits..   So a Bat for example would have improved Eco Location Abilities, A Spider would have stronger Webs... maybe Webs that can burn like Acid.

Now as far as infection i think it depends on the amount of the Substance the Organism is in contact with.

As far as Male vs Female... who knows.... the Xeno may be Asexual and have no real Sex they may have Queens and means to Produce Queens... but we cant say if they need Sexual Reproduction.

so its hard to say what a Male Human vs Female would be like... but we can assume maybe a Female as the Goo seems to Evolve Traits of the Organism infected would evolve the reproduction of the Organism that required no mate..... yes.

I would even imagine something like Sil from Species could be a result.

Here is a thing i noticed with Prometheus... a contradiction...  the Eye Worm... what the hell was that all about?

We could assume its some of Holoways AWOL Sperm... but how does one become AWOL?

But then it got me thinking and the Sources comments also helped solidify this theory...

When David has the Goo on his finger, its like a slimy substance and you can make out movement inside of it as if its ALIVE.... The source said it was a PARASITE

What if instead of Spaights Nano Scarabs we have Nano Worms... but how does that explain the Goo... well the stuff in the ampoule was slightly different to the stuff that leaked out of the Urns its as if something else mixed with this substance to produce the Black Goo.

If we go back to Holoways finger... what if it contained thousands of Nano Worm like Tadpoles.... what else is like Tadpoles... Sperm... what does a collection of thousands of Sperm look like... a Goo...

So what if the Nano Worms... was what infected Shaws Eggs...?

i find this interesting unused concept prop for Fifield just before he started to succumb to the Black Goo

Again this would have been a massive Clue...

But even if we ignore this and assume it was Black Goo mutated Sperm..... i think the end result its the same... it infected one of Shaws Eggs.

We see the Goo infects Cells and it then Evolves them and makes a Hybrid....  Well Eggs are just another Cell.

These Cells are a Blank Canvas if Life that Evolve into Embryo and the Stage 1 Embryo of nearly every creature on Earth is very similar....

Hense less DNA to Evolve for the Black Goo/Nano Worms and this is why we have the Trilobite that was the closest to the Xeno DNA... it was a Hybrid Human/Xeno Face Huger and this is why the Deacon had a Placenta, was fully formed and had Human Fingers and Toes and Enamel Teeth.

And so i think the Goo infection a female could for certain Produce from her Eggs a Hybrid Face Huger.

When a Human usually has a Egg Fertilized she can not produce more Fertilized Eggs until she has given birth, this is why when Pregnant they cant be made Pregnant again until after birth...  Maybe this is a barrier the Xeno infected Shaws Egg had..

This would not stop her being used to carry a Trilobite and have a C-Section, then for her to be stitched up rested for few days and endure the process again.

Maybe a fully infected Shaws DNA like Fifield, could find another way to procreate multiple off spring who knows?

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The sacrificial cup was removed the goo made black rather than green and Fifield became a Zombie instead of taking on the more overt Zeno head. 

Were these random textural choices or had plot point significance.

When the Engineer takes the sacrificial offering he breaks down in seconds whereas our two guys are still alive after several hours.

Face Hugger infestation inside a human produces a Bio Mechanical  A L I E N.

Trilobite infestation inside an Engineer produces a Deacon. 

Engineer and Mankind share the same DNA.

So for me the missing link is the start point.

We need something to take us from Goo to Egg which contains a Face hugger which will produce a Bio Mechanical creature. 

An event occurs, maybe its this 

Goo > Transformed Big Idea David > Transformed technically alive Shaw as female - produces Egg. This is dramatically more interesting than Shaw becomes Egg. She maybe able to produce multiple Eggs so she is hooked up to Giger technology.

OK so we need to give these babies a home > Covenant arrives.

Shaw in some inconceivable way is still Shaw and is available for Protagonist Antagonist Redemption curve.    

 David is now growing into something more human so he is available for P. A. R. 

Can't someone turn into an egg? Please?

Well, as far as how do we get to a big chap, I think we need David for that.  We have seen various reactions to both male and female from the black goo, but not the bio-mechanical aspect.  I think (or hope) that is what A:C will show us.

Since we are related to engineers, if same material is in sacrificial cup, then it would be logical to assume a very similar reaction would happen.  We could then
"seed" a planet with new life, hopefully one with a good nature (or at least free will) versus a purely evil one. 

Is it a matter of the dose quantity?  Do you need the amount in the cup, versus the drop administered by David?  That could explain why the engineers immediately re-composed, versus the prolonged reactions in Fifield and Holloway.  Also Mr T in Shaw, although that is another kettle of fish.

Or is the black goo in the urns weaponized by the "warring" or fallen faction, and already has the "bad seed" in it.  This would account for why the reactions are evil.  I think this is an important point to consider.  I don't think the (good) engineers are seeding planets with this Alien strain; it is something more virtuous as a species.  So obviously the process was perverted, as MJ's excellent synopsis described. 

But what about Milburn?  Something burst from his mouth.   Did the "cobra" not have enough time, or is not capable of morphing?  It just seems to have killed his host.  Is that just a pure bio weapon designed to kill (and eat?), rather than re-produce?

Drinking the sacrificial goo was the noble way of re-composing into different life forms.  Ingesting the black goo is quite the opposite, bringing out the worst.  The "fire" of life, with both good and evil aspects. 

Asexual reproduction from an infected female human would be cool. That would be something we've never seen before and could be quite sexually disturbing. Considering the black goo made Shaw pregnant when she was barren would help support the restructuring of asexual capabilities.

Dont mean to go off Topic...

But yes we have to ask why was the Xeno Bio-Mechanical....  but we have to remember that the strain we saw in Prometheus was maybe from the Deacon on the Mural... and so its DNA is not pure 100% Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph...  Shaws Deacon was less Mechanical because again it was a Hybrid of Human and maybe Mural Deacon DNA.

Ridley had posed the Question about the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph and why and the movie would attempt to show us.....

I thought before Prometheus that David would use Engineer Tech and the Big Things have Small Beginnings was a way for him to evolve himself to become more than Synthetic... like a Pinocchio wanting to become a real boy.

His Ultimate price for this, was he becomes infected by the Trilobite that is removed from Shaw and this is where the Xeno gets its Bio-Mechanics from...

This theory was wrong however lol

Also this theory would make Prometheus a direct prequel in a way... and i was always under the impression that the Derelict was there for thousands of years.

They can do a idea like above, especially if the David 8 doppelganger is a Synthetic Construct like Elden from Fire and Stone...

Again it would mean the Xenomorph Origin is from a time post 2093 and so say 28+ or 18+ (event in Covenant) years prior to Alien, which i think goes against how long the Derelict seemed to have been there.

Ridley did say a number of times the Derelict was there for thousands of years and he also said after Prometheus that the Derelict had been there within a few hundred years of the outbreak on LV-223 that led to all those dead Engineers.

One thing we seem to forget....

Engineers have Bio-Technology, the Juggernaughts, their Suits, they all have a mild Giger look to it, maybe some of it is less Organic than Gigers work... and some of it less Mechanical (Engineer under Pressure Suits).

But the Engineers Bio-Tech Predated the Prometheus Mission...  maybe Alien Covenant can give clues to when and where and how these Engineer obtained Bio-Mechanics from and what connection it had with the Engineers.

As the Sacrificial and Elders Scene seemed to lack that Bio-Mechanical Tech... the Teardrop ship likewise.

So maybe the Xenomorph is not created from a event in Alien Covenants current timeline... 2104 etc

We dont clearly know the extent of the Xeno strain procreation.... we dont know if the Xeno is something that came from the Goo or the Goo predates it.

The Xenomorph seemed to have a purpose of Procreate its own kind, regardless of the Egg Morph or Queen aspect.

But we have to wander as the Xeno in Alien could Egg Morph to Procreate and the Queen maybe could produce Eggs Asexually that if either had its DNA broke down and passed onto another life form to make a Hybrid would those methods of re-production be passed on or not?

If the Goo (Sacrificial) breaks down DNA but then produces a new Substance that passes the Sacrificed Organisms best Traits, while Evolving the infected Organisms best Traits then yes there is a chance that the Xenos Procreation Techniques could be passed on.

This assumes Xeno DNA is within the Urns.... and that the Urns do not produce the Xenos.. but even if thats not the case.. if Xenos come from something else, it would have had to had been passed on its Procreation traits from something else.

Question is without the target Organism being able to Procreate.... can the Urn DNA evolve traits to allow procreation.... i.e could a Male be infected to be a Egg Layer?  Of does the Organism already have to have the ability to produce Eggs/Offspring and the Urns DNA just negates the need for Fertilization?

Maybe a Female Organism is needed to produce a Organism with ability to Lay Eggs or give birth to offspring?

What of a Male? do they just become killing Machines, or could they manipulate DNA via a Egg Morph?

I would also like to bring the Hammerpedes into the Equation... if we assume those Worms are similar to Earth Worms...   yes they can re-grow damaged cells.... this is evolved to a whole new level via the Black Goo.

But if they are like Worms, then Worms Produce Asexually to a degree... a Worm is Hermaphrodite it has Eggs and Sperm, but they can no fertilize themselves.

They need another Worm and the Two Mate and both make each other Pregnant well Fertilize each others Eggs.

We see Two Hammerpedes... maybe they have Mated and Milburn was a place to then deposit Eggs like how many insects which include Flies would lay there Eggs on a Dead Carcass

I've been following and contributing to quite a few discussions on this website, and what strikes me now, is that most of the reasoning I have seen is coming from a preconceived notion that the things we have seen in Prometheus, actually tried to explain how the Morb/Xeno came into existence in the first place.

People are absolutely certain that Prometheus and these new upcoming movies will explain the nature of the Alien organism, with the Deacon being this sort of "Proto" morb creature.

What if, none of that is actually the case, and things are completely different.
What if the Morb creature is an already preexisting creature, or even civilization that the Engineers just happened upon or were at war with at a certain point within their history.

There is evidence for this in Prometheus, since the Mural actually shows the egg like cocoon we all know.

I've been thinking about this for quite some time now, and now I'd like to know what you guys think ?

Lets reason and theorize with information we've actually seen for ourselves, and leave out speculation from either movie characters in the movie, or the movie creators trying to fire up a discussion not e

What if the Morb is indeed an already existing creature that the Engineers had to deal with in some kind of way. Perhaps the creature belongs to a civilization that the Engineers are/were at war with.

Perhaps the nature of the Morb/Engineer relationship is even more frightening but at this time simply unknown to us as an audience.

What if the LV-223 installation was actually some sort of research base in which the Engineers were researching the morb biology and tried to create some kind of super being ?

There is the Deacon statue (Which many people mix up with the actual Morb for some reason, although it's clearly something different)  within the ampule room which seems to have great significance and it only reinforces my theory since it is featured as being a centerpiece in the room.
It is shown as this sort of pinnacle, this thing that happens when all things come together.

During the start of Prometheus we see the engineer sacrificing himself by drinking some kind of ooze, which then breaks down to engineer to pure genetic material.

What if the ooze in the ampoules are actually broken down Morb creatures ? Morb DNA.... We already know that this creature is a pure survivor, which can adept to almost every circumstance you throw at it. We also know that the creature needs to use other organisms as hosts to complete it's parasitic life cycle. Its very genes are built to latch onto something and alter it in such a way that the the morb parts actually prevail, completely destroying the other genetic material present. In a way this Morb DNA works exactly like a virus does in that it latches onto existing genetic material, and it alters it completely. Only this time the immune system never has a chance to go against it, and once again the creature proves to be the ultimate survivor.

Then there is the derelict on LV-426. To me this seems to be a supply ship which might have been on it's way to LV-223 with a fresh batch of Morb eggs. Remember how these eggs were neatly arranged in silos and had this sort of containment field ? I think this "Spacejockey" was perhaps due to drop this load on LV-223. Fresh eggs with which the engineers could do more experiments.

@Charza, you're absolutely right! I can't remember which thread it's in, but a few of us got to thinking that the Black Goo was (in one form or another) an attempt at recreating or imitating the pre-existence of the Xenomorph/Morb. The mural, with the Deacon/Xeno like hieroglyph, along with the shrine-like crystal all suggest the creature is the blueprint and the inspiration behind what the Engineers were cooking up on LV-223. Echoing man's attempt at creating life by use of robotics.

These threads have a habit of coming down to two central issues :-

1) Is the sacrificial goo the same goo that we see in the headroom. 

2) What is the relationship between the life cycle from A L I E N and the life cycles in the mural and the one we have seen in P R O M E T H E U S. 

@Charza. it is entirely conceivable that the Zenomorph is  a species the Engineers/Jockeys came across and that LV223 is a research establishment built to deal with this threat. That could be the motivation for creating the Deacon there own H Bomb as it were.

My overriding views are based on one fact, and one fact alone. The notion of Paradise Lost.

The Engineers have rebelled, in what way we are not entirely clear, but certainly what they did on LV223 did them no good at all and all but one perished. We also know the Covenant arrives on Paradise on which David is the sole inhabitant which will provide the answers to why Paradise Lost.

Here are some sub sections.

Black Goo>Human Male> Infects Human Female> produces Miss T who overcomes an Engineer and leads to >Deacon.

Black Goo>worm>Hammerpede.

Black Goo>Fifield>Mutation.

So either the Black Goo in the headroom has been synthesised to include the sacrificial deacon which makes it a Zeno Mutagen (Lindelof).

or  

The mere ingesting of this substance in an unplanned event leads to punishment for the recipient (the Promethean revenge of Zeus) and when it is a planned event the life cycle on the mural it represents a fall (Disobedience, and the loss thereupon of Paradise wherein he (Engineers)  was plac't): which the creators move against by biblical levels of retribution akin to Sodom and Gomorrah. 

Finally whilst the Zeno may be a pre existing species here is what the director said      

"We’re getting closer and closer to the creation of the beasts—how and why they were created—and the first Alien film that I made over thirty years ago."

What are Facehuggers disseminating? A zygote? Black goo?

Maybe facehuggers have a little pocket of black goo...it samples the host DNA and combines it with goo and produces a little monster zygote?

@ M Z 

In the creature picture of the Face Hugger it shows a tube with an Egg in it.

Clearly Black Goo wrapped around Male Sperm fertilises Female Sperm to  generate a TRILOBITE and begin the Zeno cycle. But this was an experiment which needs perfecting.

David may have discovered/rediscovered a stand alone way to mix Black Goo with Human DNA. Unlike a knowing sacrifice it is effectively a rape. The Face hugger lays the egg in the human body which interacts with human DNA male or female and several hours later the a sexual bio mechanical chap makes an appearance. Interesting how the Hugger has a tail which not only has a practical use but sets up the tail of the  A L I E N.   

If it requires a human in the food chain to create a trilobite presumably a human is required to produce an Egg and accompanying hugger. 

@Diz I think you sum up the chain of events perfectly with the dilemma which is that either :-

1) The Black Goo has been contaminated in the LV223 experiments which had uncontrollable catastrophic effects.

or

2) The Black Goo is the fire of life which if it is misused (stolen) has Promethean type consequences for the perpetrator (the mural and fresco implications ) and if it is used in an unauthorised way (the temptation of eve) generates a loss of innocence and in this mythos punishment and retribution.   

Probably why I am coming down on 2 is because C O V E N A N T (and again the breaking thereof) will move away from the speculative permission of Lindelof to some hard answers which need to be communicated forcefully and directly to a large audience so some of its tenants need to be explained very simply and I believe 2 (this is the fire it was stolen and these are the consequences) is simpler than the more complicated LV223 experiments went wrong. Particularly when the real message of the movie is why the zeno and how bio mechanical thats where the complex ingenuity maybe directed. The black goo in a sense is back story.     

For me seeing the vials/bagdad batteries, vases (ha ha) in the room with Ridley made me think, there back again and we do not want to rely on the previous film to explain them, or repeat the contamination argument, if anything through David we will get the explanation of the events that are coming and for those that are interested clarity as to what the f..k was going on in P R O M E T H E U S. Michael has said this film moves at a rapid pace within a big picture whats worse than to little exposition is overcomplicated exposition for the wider audience. So applying the KISS principle to the various appearances of the canisters and its contents would fit that.

"1) Is the sacrificial goo the same goo that we see in the headroom. "

Considering the stuff in the prologue looks and acts differently, imma go with "no".

Big Dave:

I think that it was very disappointing that they didn’t use the Xenomorph Fifield but went with the zombie instead. The Zombie was very bad and (more importantly) made less sense than the other version. When I see the Xeno version and look at the Zombie I just shake my head in disappointment because that would have made the movie a little better.

New monsters sure but no Fifield zombies please because it is not good. I like zombie movies but I don’t think that an Alien prequel is a place for them and they shouldn’t be in AC either.

The boob monster looks sort of creepy like something that could attack you without hesitation and tear you into pieces, sorry but I am not sure what to call it. I think that it would make sense if each version would be sort of different compared to the rest but that they should also have a lot in common because we all have individual ways of how we look but we also have similarities but it shouldn’t be too close to humans so to speak.

What if there are different versions of the goo? I am not sure how this would work, it is just an idea that I have.

The eye worm is a thing that didn’t make sense to me. It was like they had an idea about it but they didn’t develop it very much but put it in the movie and the result of that scene was like “Uh? OK? What’s the point?” Maybe that was another idea that they didn’t think through very well but I think that it was potentially creepy – the idea of a parasite that consumes your body from within, eww.

@ SM if you look at the very first split second opening of of the sacrificial cup it has exactly the same undulating black glutinous look of the sweating ampule. It then seems to reduce and coagulate whereas the vases fluid begins to leak.

Its interesting that the headroom starts sweating as soon as David opens the door. The alter sweats, the murals decompose the storm starts up and yet for 2,000 the head is "In a state of perfect preservation". Is it possible that the opening of the door and humankind presence breaking down of the preserved atmosphere is a lock down procedure to prevent the Black Goo being used.

David quick as a flash sprays the Ampule in a freezing agent and keeps it refrigerated before opening it.

Put simply the goo reaction follows all the other elements changing in the room.

As to differences of outcomes. The acolyte ingests a perfectly judged prescribed amount of the Goo. Everyone  knows exactly what is needed to make this sacrifice happen.

David gives Charlie a minuscule amount assuming he will make love to Elizabeth and see what transpires. Its a modest hit to his system.

Fifield on the other hand is a re emergent mutation who given a different decision would have looked half way Zeno over the same period. He has clearly "died" and been re organised he would not have survived the mask implosion. Incidentally if my theory that mankind's direct involvement triggered the Zeno strain is correct it was a mistake to make him into an un-relatable mutant.

Others may know more but what I understand is that in the more Zeno orientated Spaihts script Fifield was displaying classic Zeno physical characteristics and this was changed not at a story telling level but strategically to make the films relationship with A L I E N less certain.

Indeed now we are backing into I am sure Ridley would look at some of the Prometheus decisions and offer more tie ins such as Black Goo > Humankind > Zeno.          

Is the Black Goo the same but is capable of other outcomes ?

Part of my process of considering this is connected to a simpler Paradise Lost narrative and the inspiration came from Rider Haggard's beautiful creation Ayesha.

This being closely connected to the Egyptian God hierarchy gained her immorality from stepping into the Fire. However 2,000 years later she steps into the same Fire and her mortality catch's up with her as punishment for her bending the rules and slaying her lovers other lover in antiquity. (Sound familiar close to the gods/involved with human kind/breaks the rules/appalling retribution).