What If... Ripley, Hicks, and Newt didn't die on Fiorina 161?

I've seen this theory posited, and without any real detail it's nearly as bad as 'it was all a dream'.

Ripley was cloned in Resurrection, because they wanted an Alien, not because the USM wanted Ripley.  Additionally Ripley8 had fragments of memories because of the genetic crossing with the Alien.  It's noted in the film that this was unprecedented.

The main questions for cloning Ripley, Newt and Hicks are:

- Why clone them?

- Assuming Ripley is a clone - how does she have memories?

- When did they decide to clone them?

If they went down this route, I'm open to being surprised at it making sense.  But you need to jump through a bunch of hoops first.

This is the first scenario that both holds water and is exciting to boot, and although the whole cloning thing is a bit easy it's much better than 'it was all a dream', and cloning already has its place in the story. But it begs the question, is WY overwritten for some new, more nefarious power? I'd be ok with that if they kept it simple. It would seem a waste of screen time to depict a corporate struggle.

I doubt Ridley Scott's greed motivated the switch, he doesn't control Fox, who finances these things. Money was already invested in Covenant and they obviously felt it was worth moving forward, which suggests confidence on their part in what he has to offer.

No one on that side has suggested that RS thinks his movie is more important, and even if he did (and he probably does, I know I do) Fox would be unmoved.

But if you're going to put money on who will come up with a more unique, artful and horrific expansion of the universe, you gotta go with Ridley, he has a pedigree that's worthy of respect, in his career and in this franchise in particular. What does Blomkamp have other than a script praised by the more catty characters in Tinseltown?

McDonald's shouldn't sell Lobster, they should stick to Quarter Pounders. But do we want McDonald's business model applied to Alien? Do we need Die Hard 6? Anyway, I like your ideas about where this will go, and I do believe it's gonna go. I hope you're right, it would solve a major stumbling block for credibility. 

What would be the point of cloning them though?

To make another Ripley movie.

Cloning make little sense....

When were they cloned?

A plot line could be:

Real Ripley goes to sleep just like the end of Aliens....Sulaco begins it's journey home...

The atomic blast on LV426 has awakened/alerted the Engineers(or something else)...they come to investigate.

...The Engineers find the Queen floating in orbit above LV426...good start to the movie....

Sulaco is tracked down(leaking engines....easy trail to follow) Real Ripley gets abducted by Engineers/Elders/ cloned many times....dipped in vats of black goo? Lots of screams and fetuses....Engineers clone victims(and space suits/ships/etc...) and use them for experiments. 

Big adventure ensues(Alien 5)

Real Ripley dies doing something(saving Newt..etc..)

Engineers defeated....

Clone Ripley/Clone Newt/Clone Hicks want to return to Earth on the Sulaco..they want to get away from all this madness......Begin Alien 3.

?...probably work?

The idea of the explosion attracting the Engineers and them finding the Queen has some merit.  But the cloning still seems to have no purpose.

I love speculation. It goes to show just how far our imaginations can take us and undoubtedly shows Fox the sheer level of adoration and enthusiasm us fans have for the franchise.

As per the OP though, it's a tricky scenario. As S.M pointed out, the purpose for cloning Ripley was to secure a living Xenomorph specimen. The goal of cloning Ripley, Hicks AND Newt would suggest the purpose was to act as a deterrent.

Weyland-Yutani would have known the remaining survivors were Ripley, Hicks and Newt. Thus, they would expect to find them when they eventually tracked down the Sulacco. Of course, for reasons unknown the Sulacco ejected the EEV, with a Facehugger (?!?) mysteriously onboard. Cue Alien 3. Why clone?

The way I see it, there really are only 2 likely scenarios for this theory:

1) Weyland-Yutani sabotaged the original Ripley, Hicks and Newt to throw the scent off their trail and pursuit of the Xenomorph. To their investors and the USCM, their deaths were accidental and on paper, would leave no room for further investigation - leaving Weyland-Yutani free to operate behind the scenes. By cloning Ripley, Hicks and Newt, they could attempt to do what they did in Resurrection - obtain information on the Xenomorph and a species (if there were more than one Hugger onboard).

2) It's, like you said, some other company or entity operating outside the law and outside of Weyland-Yutani regulations. A rogue department who see a connection between Ripley and the Xenomorph and who wish to steal her for their own research. My concern here is why clone Hicks and Newt?

It's a fascinating theory and given that cloning is not a new concept to the Alien universe, it could hold up. To the extent that we're theorizing however, I'm not sure. There are too many variables and general "why would they do that" questions. Unless Blomkamp vouches for lazy storytelling, I'm not sure how it could all fit together.

If the end result is "the events of Alien3 still exist as portrayed in the film", then that has to be a side effect of the events in this film, same as how Ripley8 was a by-product in Resurrection.

One way I think cloning could work (not that think this would ever happen) is have it follow on from Resurrection.  When USM first started the project to get an Alien they had fragmented information, and mistakenly cloned Hicks and Newt first thinking they might've been carrying the Queen.  This would've been years before the events of Resurrection and the Hicks and Newt clones grow to adulthood normally with no genetic mixing. They have no recollection of their former lives.  At some point they meet Ripley8 and Call, and Call tells them about the original Hicks and Newt.  You could touch on the concept of destiny being genetic and the religious aspect of Ripley ('For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope.' Jeremiah 29:11), as well as shooting monsters.

This movie's premise is hanging by a thread already, it really comes down to what's the most acceptable reason for this thing to exist?

Because Fox reckons it'll make a lot of money.  And judging from the fan response, they seem to be on the right track, despite a vocal minority who don't want it.

I think I’m a bit nostalgic when it comes to these characters as well. In fact I saw the first two alien films growing up. Still like the dated special effects. Alien is showing a little rough around the edges and it is still a great movie to this day.

However, I think it would be wise for Aliens fans not to get too attached to any one single paradigm or premise. Scott can pull off almost anything with the newest special effects. They have come a long way in 35 years. Alien Covenant has a budget of 200 million so we know this has heavy substance. Maybe one of the last epic great blockbuster Scifi films for a long time perhaps.

It is plausible that the Engineers warp space or something and can go back to the time Ripley, Newt, and Hicks are alive. After 10000 years or even a 100000 thousand years of evolution maybe much more is possible for them.

The Prometheus ship that went to LV426 was traveling faster than the speed of light, and yet no one questioned it at all. Now those were some interesting special effects. I never want to limit what might be possible in any of these films.

Now here is another fine expression in other artwork that maybe touches on what else might be possible for Alien movies in the near future.

One of the qualities that separates out speculation from the outcome is many fans over complicate the beats which take you in a particular direction. With A.C. the ten years speculation is packed full of narrative for the film when in fact a few well chosen pieces of exposition and a modest flash back will give us an explanation. 

A 5 is a fork in the road. During the titles you can show the audience the fork in a number of really simple ways. However what is crucial to hold on to this fork in the road is an absorbing narrative which makes the audience revel in the new road and forget the two films so it becomes their established reality.

Ironically thats precisely how they set up Resurrection in the theatrical cut.

If you want an in joke it could be as simple as us seeing "Newt/Hicks and Ripley" being extracted from the Sulaco and the Egg being quarantined unbeknown to the three of  them. You then switch to 20 years later the now H/N/R and the unfolding of the story which is the standard three way triangulation between the good guys/W-T and the beast.

Its an alternative story line so change something at the fork which takes you down 3 and R - the Egg. 

I have added a more detailed clarification to the end of the OP for any that may have been confused as to what my new theory actually is suggesting.

Not liking the 'faceless' greedy corporation(W-Y) angle.

if they go the clone route...then bring back Peter Weyland...evil and twisted...He's still mad at Ripley for blowing up the Nostromo(Nostromo's cargo was actually thousands of illegal clone workers)

Ripley "So this is what it's all about?! I blew up your Goddamn ship?! All your precious ore..?"

Peter Weyland "..Ahh if it were simple ore you destroyed.....no...The Nostromo contained a trillion dollars worth of embryos, fetuses and clones....clones of my grandmother, Einstein....You see miss Ripley, you killed thousands humans"

(Or David 13 is running W-Y.)

Another thing - if Hicks was cloned, his face wouldn't be burned still, like it is in the concept art. Unless he has another unfortunate run-in with a Xenomorph when he was younger and happens to get burned the exact same way as his original self did. 

This movie is gonna be a laff riot.

@ Chris Picard,

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I believe the Hicks in the concept art, is THE real Hicks, the one from Aliens; same goes for Newt and Ripley. The Hicks, Newt and Ripley that were all killed (ultimately) on Fiorina 161 were the clones. Thus the 8th Ripley clone in Alien Resurrection is actual a copy of a copy (spot the music reference if you can).

Hicks pulled the trigger..'click'..

"Oh shi..."

His package was still out of reach and the creature was closing....

"Lets get this over with..", he thought.

*ZZZRRRRUP*

A laser beam sliced the alien in two neat pieces.

Hicks didn't know where it came from...must have been from miles away!....

He would never know who saved his life.

He believed in second chances.

Grabbing the satchel, he made a leap from the precipice into the gaping maw of the skyscraper size monster.....

He hoped Rebecca was clear of the planet.

"EAT DEATH YOU MOTHERFUC..."

Hicks let loose the 44 grams of antimatter.

Rebecca didn't need to look behind her, the universe lit up for a brief second, she new the bomb had detonated ..............Her ship's warning systems lit up like a Christmas tree...everything from overspeed to bulb out.

The vessels hull would not keep the lethal radiation from her...She was a dead girl flying.....

@Gavin Singleton

Ripley 8 could easily be a "copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a…" with how much time has passed.  You were referencing Nine Inch Nails if I’m not mistaken.

I've been considering the idea that the clones are produced in sets of 8 via a specific cloning technique that generates octuplets.  This could make things similar to the Metal Gear Solid video games:  more similar than how the Assassin's Creed games view the concept of genetic memory. 

The scientific process behind the cloning could actually produce them in groups of 8 (partially based on real cloning science). This can allow each of the clones to express a slightly different version of the genetics.  Genes/Alleles may be switched around to achieve desired results & alter the genetic sibling/offspring's traits.  For example, Vickers 1 had blonde hair: whereas, Vickers 2, 4, and 6 might have brown hair.  MUTHUR may or may not be in the picture, and maybe FATHER selected for blonde haired children.  Most of the Davids would have brown hair, except for the "special ones." This allows us to easily tell the David and Vickers from the Prometheus mission apart from the new ones...

I have a theory that Janek once met with a ‘backup copy’ of Miss Vickers on a previous job (who enjoyed music of various types/genres).  For now, I’ll refer to her as “Vickers 3.”  The version of Vickers that Janek met during the Prometheus mission didn't know or remember him, which is what initially convinced him that she was a robot, like Weyland's “son”; he knew that there was more than one.  "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with..." was Capt. Janek's advice to himself for dealing with legitimate feelings he held for a Vickers clone - Weyland’s illegitimate daughter.  So it turns out that Miss Vickers is more of a clone than a robot.

GAVIN SINGLETON - Hmm...now this is a most interesting hypothesis! I must admit that I have never considered the possibility of clones. This is precisely why I enjoy these exercises in thought so greatly! I believe that the concepts you have presented could very easily be implemented. To be quite honest, any story line designed to draw Ripley, Hicks and Newt back together would be perfectly acceptable as long as it is presented in a believable and interesting fashion. Science Fiction does not have to be 100% Science Fact. It must simply engage our minds and move our emotions; allow us to dream and wonder! :)

Interesting idea....

Yes the cloning and why bother is a good argument against such a idea... as is the WHY does Hicks Clone have the Scar too?

If we look at this as a professional inside job, then maybe some persons on Fiorina 161 could be behind it and in on it.

If you cloned Hicks he would have no Scar, but if the Hicks Clone is to be used as merely a decoy and they planned to kill him off then a Professional Job would have them burn the Clone on the Face after they had been cloned.

The big question is Why would they keep Ripley, Hicks and Newt... if they only needed one and would impregnate one with a Xenomorph then would they need the others?

If they used Newt... they just need a clone of her and then send Clone Newt, and Real Hicks and Ripley to their deaths in the EEV.

The biggest problem with this theory for me is this...

"Two Xenomorph eggs (taken from the derelict on LV-426) are then brought on board the Sulaco"

Then why would they need Ripley, Hicks or Newt?  They could just get their hands on other Hosts.....

I think the only reason Ripley was needed in Alien 3 and Alien R was because the infected Ripley was the only means the companies had of obtaining a Xenomorph... or a Queen.

"Ridley Scotts insistence that his next movie Alien: Covenant take priority over Blomkamp's hotly anticipated addition has been interpreted by many fans and critics as a greedy move by the aging British director"

I am not quite sure this is the case.... to me it appears Miss Weaver is the one with the Greedy Agenda... and i bet she wont pass the Torch and a Alien 6 would have her in it.  She had said before that she would love to be a part of Ridleys Prometheus Sequel and so she wants to be to the Alien Franchise as Arnie is to the Terminator.

Ridley Scott is no Spring Chicken.... he lost creative control of how the Alien would evolve as a sequel.... Cameron took over on Aliens and brought in his own ideas.

The TWO things that had never been answered were... Who was the Space Jockey, and how did those Eggs come to be.... so the Origins and Agenda of the Space Jockey and Xenomorph are things that had never been addressed and something that Ridley can Rubber Stamp his own ideas on.

At 78 Ridley Scott would rather sooner than latter take on the task of connecting Prometheus to Alien and Answer the Origins and Agenda of the Engineers and Xenomorph.

Ridleys plans required at least Two Sequels.... but he also had a busy schedule..... which is now freed up.... The Alien Franchise is of that much importance to him that he has forgone a direct role in his other Baby... Blade Runner another Great Ridley Scott Sci-Fi which has had no sequel and so no one else s hands on how things would follow on.

Ridley Scott is getting old.... he knows the process of making movies is long and the best case scenario to produce TWO Prometheus Sequels would take 3-4 years (can be done in less if done like they did with some movies like Back to Future 2-3 and the last installments of Lord of the Rings and Harry Potters).

Ridley would know, and he did say the Beast was Cooked... the Xeno had been done to death and he wanted to try something a bit different and a sequel that would further span away from Alien....

With Alien 5 we get more Queens, more Xenos and more Ripley which we have seen a lot and Ripley did die... only to then be brought back with Alien Resurrection and so Ridley may have thought that Alien Prequels and expanded universe relating to the Engineers is more important than another ALIEN MOVIE

Ridley had commitments with Gods and Kings and the Martian and it was at these times that Blomkamps Alien 5 ideas came to light...

The internet was a buzz with the anticipation and hype of a Aliens Sequel that would do the first movie justice after the more disappointments of Alien 3 and Alien R...

Fox could see this.... and gauge that it was more anticipated than the sequel to a Alien Prequel that most fans never got and casual fans may never had know was a Alien movie.

So Alien 5 was given the Green Light, byt Ridley had convinced Fox that his project would be better to be done first....  

Alien 5 had some elements that would have conflicted and stepped on the toes of his plans for Prometheus 2

A comming together with Fox, Ridley and Blomkamp had came about where they discussed both movies and how they tie into the Franchise... and it seems some of Alien 5 had been changed and Ridley was taken on as Producer.

Then Ridleys Prometheus 2 had gone through some changes to tie it more to Alien and cover the Xeno more... as well it would appear that with the anticipation with Alien 5 and more Xenos and disappointment that Prometheus never had any or answered the BIG QUESTIONS

It seems Fox have maybe changed a bit of Prometheus 2 to be a Alien Prequel... and to maybe cover the Xeno more and less Engineer so that Alien fans get their FIX..... Ridley gets to cover the Origins of the Xeno first which would leave Alien 5 freedom to touch upon anything related to the Xeno and Engineers without spoiling plans for Prometheus sequels if Alien 5 had came out first.

This then leaves future Alien Prequels to cover more, and eventually if done well... it would then finally leave fans wanting to go re-watch Prometheus or see it if they have not already.... and then be interesting more in WHAT ELSE do this Engineers get up to...

Ultimately Ridley wants to Rubber Stamp the Space Jockey, and Xenomorph Agenda, Origins and Connection especially regarding the Xeno Bio-Weapon and the Derelict.

Better to answer these sooner than latter, as if Ridley left it... and got to the point where he is to old to influence the Story/Questions or even if he is not around to shoot them.

He would not want to see those Questions Answered in ways that would make him Turn in his Grave.... and so he would rather get these things finished..

This is why he us pushing to get Alien Covenant done first and its why he has taken a less hands on role with Blade Runner.  He cares about the Alien Franchise and i bet he wants to see this connection to completion.

He did say this would take 2-3 movies... including Alien Covenant.

 Certainly is a nice idea in the OT however...

But i think what they mean by how Alien 5 will relate to Alien 3 and Alien R is as follows...

Alien happens and Aliens... they are pushing that Prometheus and the Alien Prequels happen...

Then after the events of Aliens.... Fans are given two alternative routes.....  Alien 3 and Alien R  ... or Alien 5 and no doubt Alien 6.

And its down to the fans to chose which route they prefer and even to enjoy both routes... but both routes are not connected....  just as Miss Weaver said... its a Fork in the Road.

Like playing the 80's Arcade Racer Outrun every player starts off and has to finish and go through the first stage.... but then you reach a Fork in the Road... Take the Right and you go off on a different path and location.... take the Left and its another different path.

@ Big Dave, the theory is much more simpler than you have read into it. Hicks in the concept art is Hicks from Aliens, not a clone - the clone was on the EEV. Everyone on the EEV was a clone!

The Company has shown scant regard for corporate rules and regulations when it suits them. Why would they start worrying about the Korean government - or indeed any government - now?  And if said government got wind of what the Company was up to - just prosecute them.

@ S.M.

Untrue.

Special Order 937 shows that Weyland-Yutani were aware that specimens of the Xenomorph were present on LV-426. Why then did they re-route the Nostromo, and then wait 37 years before establishing Hadley's Hope instead of simply sending a vessel like the Patna, a vessel capable of safely and efficiently extracting the Xenomorph specimens they clearly coveted so much.

David Giler's only true contribution to the script, the corporate conspiracy angle, may have been an overused trope by the end of the 1970's but ironically in Alien it shows that the big bad "company", as powerful as it may have become is not in charge and that in the 22nd century whoever is in charge has sanctioned, disallowed or otherwise prohibited Weyland-Yutani and possibly other corporations from directly acquiring Engineer Tech, or derivatives thereof. And it would seem from Blomkamp's concept art that he is hinting that the Korean's may be a part of this.

"Special Order 937 shows that Weyland-Yutani were aware that specimens of the Xenomorph were present on LV-426."

It shows they were aware of something on LV-426.  Not the Xenomorph specifically (according to Ridley Scott). The Company was simply being opportunistic.

"Why then did they re-route the Nostromo, and then wait 37 years before establishing Hadley's Hope instead of simply sending a vessel like the Patna, a vessel capable of safely and efficiently extracting the Xenomorph specimens they clearly coveted so much."

Why did they wait 37 years?  And if they knew there was an Alien there and knew everything about its potential - why send a tug in the first place?  Why not send a specialised mission from the outset?

"David Giler's only true contribution to the script, the corporate conspiracy angle, may have been an overused trope by the end of the 1970's but ironically in Alien it shows that the big bad "company", as powerful as it may have become is not in charge and that in the 22nd century whoever is in charge has sanctioned, disallowed or otherwise prohibited Weyland-Yutani and possibly other corporations from directly acquiring Engineer Tech, or derivatives thereof. "

I'm not sure what you're basing this on.  Is there any evidence that someone has forbidden the Company from obtaining Engineer technology?  The Company has to abide by rules set down by the ICC - unless the prize is valuable enough to try and break those rules like Burke tried to do.

Nice theory, ties in well while leaving the timeline intact. I wouldn't be unhappy with a dream sequence either, like in Blade Runner and the implantation of false memories. I too am of a vintage where I saw the first 2 in my teens and wished someone would undo the events of Alien 3 all those years ago. Better late than never I guess!

It seems that aside from some initial confusion that this theory seems to hold some weight and maybe just might be the way in which Neill Blomkamp intends to take the franchise in a fresh direction without actually undoing the work of previous directors and screenwriters.

For those that may still be confused - everyone from the EEV in Alien 3 was a clone, the real Ripley, Hicks and Newt were taken by "them", whoever "them" happens to be; The ICC, the government or some other ruling body. Everything else is explained in the OT... 

@ S.M.

In Alien, the act of sending a tug without notifying the crew and planting a synthetic on board to help execute special order 937 rather than just sending a suitably equipped science vessel suggests that in some way the company was not allowed to do the latter. Sending a crew unawares, with million's of dollars worth of cargo to its inevitable death is hardly the practice of a benevolent organization. This "cloak and dagger" disregard for their employees is further exemplified in Aliens with the company waiting 37 years between rerouting the Nostromo and establishing a colony to LV-426. Immediate action after the loss of the Nostromo would have alerted unwanted attention into the company's interest in the moon.

Surely I am not the only one to have made this inference, it is literally the running theme for the company in the Alien franchise; a corporation using illegal means to acquire what it cannot legally. Thus by extension, there must be a body that governs the company and others.

Yet the multiple events on the moon depicted in Aliens would have alerted such attention from "them", who from Blomkamp's concept art seem to have their own designs on the technology of the engineers and, likely too, its cargo. As to why the elaborate ruse of planting a trio of clones onboard the Sulaco's EEV - Ensuring Clone Newt and Clone Hicks death in the crash would only leave Ripleys clone, which (with copied memories from the original Ripley) considering her past with the Xenomorph virtually ensures the events that the transpired in Alien 3, thus denying the company their prize.

"In Alien, the act of sending a tug without notifying the crew and planting a synthetic on board to help execute special order 937 rather than just sending a suitably equipped science vessel suggests that in some way the company was not allowed to do the latter."

It suggests the Company was cheap and opportunistic.  Why send an expensive specialised mission if you can just re-route a tug?  If they don't find anything of value - it cost them next to nothing.

"This "cloak and dagger" disregard for their employees is further exemplified in Aliens with the company waiting 37 years between rerouting the Nostromo and establishing a colony to LV-426. Immediate action after the loss of the Nostromo would have alerted unwanted attention into the company's interest in the moon."

If they knew the Alien was on LV-426, and knew everything about its potential - they would've sent a specialised mission in the first place - like they did in Alien3, after they finally got some idea of what was up for grabs.

If they really wanted to get their hands on the Alien, they wouldn't have waited 57 years to do so, not would they have partnered with the ECA, who could be co-claimant on the Alien's discovery.

"Thus by extension, there must be a body that governs the company and others."

Yes - it's called the ICC.

"Yet the multiple events on the moon depicted in Aliens would have alerted such attention from "them""

How? The ICC isn't omnipotent.

" As to why the elaborate ruse of planting a trio of clones onboard the Sulaco's EEV - Ensuring Clone Newt and Clone Hicks death in the crash would only leave Ripleys clone, which (with copied memories from the original Ripley) considering her past with the Xenomorph virtually ensures the events that the transpired in Alien 3, thus denying the company their prize."

I still don't see the purpose in cloning.  If "they" is some governing body like the ICC - then they have close links to the USCM, so they can just board the Sulaco and ensure the Company doesn't get its mitts on the specimens or Ripley, Hicks and Newt.  If they have the power, just charge the Company with something - start with criminal negligence for Burke sending the Jordens to check out the Derelict without any precautions.  Why the need to convoluted cloning and unprecedented memory implants?