PLANET 4: Potentially Leading to Spoilers

Not saying this is 100% the case though, to a degree it could apply maybe?

We dont know yet if that other Ship we see in the Empire Magazine is there before David and Shaw arrive in their Ship.

BigDave

I mentioned some related ideas on another thread. I definitely think there is a good chance we could see something like this play out.

It certainly solidifies the multiple races/factions of engineer theory, on more than one level.

First the humanoids aren't engineers (or don't appear to be), yet aren't "human" as we regognise the term.

The differences in ship design also hint at this.

I assume the MASSIVE ship was already there because, in the recent featurette, only one ship dropped out of warp/hyperspace/wormhole/whatever and it was David's commandeered juggernaut.

From the one image we have seen of the humanoids before the goo genocide, they don't look hugely advanced, so I doubt the ship was theirs.

Did David/Shaw gatecrash some party? An act of worship between the less advanced humanoids and a race probably more advanced than the Engineers themselves (judging by ship tech - size does bloody matter and that machine is a beast!!!!)?

The primitive society look to be gathered around the huge ship. Assuming the ship isn't from the pictured society or their planet, why would they be gathered if not to worship their "gods" or pay tribute to them?

It would explain the looks on their faces when the tiny and insignificant looking juggernaut showed up.

Maybe the Engineers (from Prometheus) were the black sheep of the family. Maybe they use to be factions of the same group, or even the same species that has evolved at a different rate due to planetary conditions.

The society on "Paradise" could have been the peaceful farming and provisioning race. Performing a tithe like tribute to the technologically advanced "god" like dudes. This tribute is returned in kind with protection and support; if their ship is anything to go by, they will be a force to be reckoned with.

Maybe the engineers (from Prometheus) use to be the protectors of the people of paradise. Tasked by the advanced ones to protect the continued production of the paradise civilisation.

Maybe they grew tired of being servile to their advanced cousins and had themselves a wee revolution.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Who knows, right? Lol

Just because a society looks 'primitive' doesn't mean it is.
EG: if they have wireless energy broadcast, you'd see no classic signs of energy transmission.
Smartphones...imagine what a device that size can do with a few thousands of years of tech advance, thus, you'd see no computers.
All the High-Tech stuff might be hidden away as part of their overall design aesthetic?

**Possible spoilers*My impression is that shaw and david are motivated to destroy the engineers as they both were nearly murdered by them. One of the pictures looks like david looking down with the goo ampoules suspended in mid air over the city?

i think its difficult to make a film for the gap between prometheus and covenant due to the complete lack of conflict possible, unless shaw and david get involved in something else entirely, which they escape or defeat, and could only really be an enemy or superior of the engineers, its a mystery.

"All the High-Tech stuff might be hidden away as part of their overall design aesthetic?" Very good Blackwinter-witch.

I believe the Engineer tech is so advanced that it blends into the background. 

The Engineers may not have developed the black goo technology but they had the technology to house it and obviously deliver the black goo without destroying themselves in the process (well, maybe). 

I wrote this on another thread but it fits here too.

They must have at least some "technological" level, judging from the buildings in the background. Especially the dome is something you need sophisticated knowledge for to build it. That thing is huge.

I feel it is illogical and confounding that Shaw and David would land on this planet and she would walk up to the beings (which are obviously different than the Engineers in Prometheus) and say in essence "hey y'all you were gonna destroy mankind, what's up with that"....i just do not feel that will happen in any format.

I feel one of two things may occur, somehow as many of you mentioned above Shaw makes a deal or a "covenant" with David to wipe out this race that wants to kill off mankind. It plays in line with the theme of the created killing off their creator.

Or perhaps they do actually land and or there is some sort of communication from the ship to the surface and during this she learns of just how evil or the wicked intentions of this race of Engineers/beings are and then after hearing of such her and David working together launch the attack.

I feel that although the images appear to put this civilization to be ancient in appearance they may have advanced tech. Although they might appear to look like ancient Egyptian like perhaps they have a similar tech to the beings in movies like Stargate, they just looked dated while having advanced weaponry and tech.

Of course maybe this planet is just an outpost of a form of beings that have been created (less evolved version of Engineers than the one's in Prometheus)  and they are controlled by a higher power being that has yet to be introduced, something far more cosmic and ancient and intelligent while being equally as evil and terrifying.

Interesting comments

I think the Empire Magazine does give some insight, and after looking at another Topic where it was highlighted that the Circular opening in the one shot appeared to be a Hanger opening like those from Prometheus does now narrow a few things down.

I overlooked this, when making this Topic i had not noticed that in the Empire Magazine shots that the Hole in the Center of the Courtyard in the City is actually a Hanger.

This now raises a few Questions/Points.

1) Which of these ships has risen from that Hanger? Or have both arrived from different places and the Hanger is opening up to allow them to Dock?

If we look at the Trailers

We can see by the time this Disaster has happened, the Hanger is completely open.  So we have to Question, does this Hanger open and release a Ship and close and then its open again?

Doubtful... i think a interesting thing is that the Hanger in the first shot in previous post (Empire Magazine) is partially open, so this leaves us asking, can any of those ships leave the Hanger while its this far open?

I would have to say doubtful....

so the Hanger in the Empire Magazine shot, has either opened up to allow one of those ships to leave, and is in the process of closing back up (but why is it open in the aftermath?)

Or is it opening up to allow the Juggernaught to Dock, and it opens all the way up and this shot in the Empire Magazine is it opening up to allow the Juggernaught to land.

This raises a HUGE Question, we know then that this World has Hangers and so it has Engineer Related Ships, and its a Question does this race of beings (or mixture) know about the Engineer Juggernaught Class and its Purpose?

If they do then what Safeguards did they have, or did David manage to convince them he is a Engineer and wishes to land and gets permission.

What role is this other ship and who is operating it?

This depends if this ship had been in the Air prior to the Juggernaught, we have to assume it is, because looking at the Hanger it is unlikely its opened up to let this ship out and then is in the process of landing... but maybe who knows David latter does land the Juggernaught inside after the disaster scene.

The Cinemacon Footage seems to indicate that the Juggernaught in One Report connects to another Juggernaught, and in the other that something comes from the Docking Station and connects to the Juggernaught.

My next post i will attempt to address what is going on.

I have roughly guessed the X is where the Bombardment had taken place and the Arrow is the Direction David is looking down upon.

If we consider this to be approximately then it raises some Questions, as far as by the time the Bombardment Ship arrives at about this position.  If the other Scorpion Tail Ship is a Engineers Ship (not the One David and Shaw arrived on) what happens to this ship by the time the Bombardment happens?

Does it have the ability to attack the other ship and in-which case we have to ask how does David not take a really big Fall from the Ship to the Ground?

If so then afterwards what happens to this Ship? as we dont see it in other parts of the Trailers but only the Crashed Juggernaught.

Or another interesting Question which could touch upon, this Topic as far as the OP...  is what if David is Bombarding from this Scorpion Tail Ship?

Could the view of the Green and Red Arrows be this section of the Scorpion Tail Ship?

BigDave, You make a good point regarding the Scorpion tail ship.  it is very possible that the ship turns upside down and drops the canisters. 

The other interesting thing then is those beings...

It appears they was amassing around the Hanger Area, why would so Many beings arrive around such a Area that has the Buddha Style Offering Statues around it?

The only thing i can logically assume is that this Hanger and those Offering Statues (which look to have Bowls like the Sacrificial cup in the opening of Prometheus) are seen as a IMPORTANT Event that does not happen often, and so these beings are not used to seeing Ships arrive on a Daily Basis, and we have to ask how unprepared them seemed to be, to just gather at this Central Hanger Point unless the ARRIVAL of Ships in the Past usually is a Significant and Important  Event.

The first Shot from the Empire Magazine, shows us these beings (hard to make out) are/have gathered near the center of this Area I have marked in GREEN

Now it appears that a Majority of those in the City have amassed in this area, which would mean they are not AWARE of the impending Doom, and this would make sense if this Central Hanger with the Offering Statues was a Place there Superiors/Hierarchy would come and Visit them.

But it appears after the Bombardment, the infection does not Spread at a Really Fast Rate, because some of the beings have either made it to the entrance of the Dome Building but looking as though some are more casually walking around it would be more logical to assume maybe these beings are gathered just in front of the Dome Building.

As there would be no way they could have amassed around that Hanger and then Ran to the Dome Building/Cathedral after the Bombardment, and looking at their reactions on their faces it would seem they have only noticed the Arriving Ship (Ships) and maybe this is prior to the Bombardment or just as it happens.

@BigDave

Good breakdown of the pics and setting, kudos.

I think that you may be correct that an arrival of a ship like the juggernaut is a rare and an event, otherwise why would all the Engineers so conveniently gather in one spot. Perhaps its ritualistic or part of their worship of the Engineers we know from Prometheus.

After looking at the pics from Empire and watching the end of Prometheus as well as watching the clip on youtube that was posted at AVP Galaxy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVeWe6FmFg8

you see a juggernaut like the one we know and recongnize entering the atmosphere of a planet, its the same style as the one that we witnessed leaving LV223 at the end of Prometheus. I do not feel that David and Shaw will be piloting two ships as that seems sketchy or at least it rubs me the wrong way from a logic and screenplay point of view. I believe Shaw and David are both in the juggernaut near the center of the pic, with him at the bay doors dropping the deadly pay load and her possibly holding it steady, because i feel the autopilot concept seems sloppy, so i hope they dont go that route. I feel that she may have made a "covenant" with David to perform this deed or perhaps as a twist it was even her idea.

I think the scorpion style vessel may have arrive or been sent out from the hangar opening to investigate the juggernaut that has appeared mysteriously on this planet. Perhaps it has a method of locking onto it, and while it does this David launches the goo and as a last defense effort the scorpion ship battles with the juggernaut or due to them being locked together they crash possibly in different spots and this is why we see the juggernaut we know clearly wrecked in the woods on the mountain.

I think the scorpion vessel is either a defense system or a sort of docking mechanism any ships that may arrive. Perhaps it is piloted by Engineers that we are familiar with like the blue/black eyes ones we seen in Prometheus and their purpose is to watch over and defend this outpost of beings on this planet. Or perhaps the Prometheus Engineers are a genetic offshoot created by the beings from this planet as soldiers or for military function in the universe.

can i give you my thoughts on the beings.....

they are similar to humans and were made in the same way at the start of prometheus where an engineer sacrificed himself to create life.   these engineers, the well defined, pale blue beings were actually created by the elders (from the start deleted scene) and these are the ultimate designer baby, created by the elders to seed the galaxy with life.   a small faction of these beings grew tired of giving their life in order of creation so a war broke out and that is where we are at.  the engineer creations are not male or female, they have no sexual orientation t  hey have no need to reproduce.  their purpose to seed the galaxy.   so weyland creates david.  the elders create the engineers.   maybe thats why there appears to be no women? also the engineer gave david a strange look before ripping off his head, maybe that was sympathy or empathy towards another creation (even tho engineers are organic) before the act.

its my theory as to why the beings are different

@sherris

I like your thoughts on this, it works well with the themes of the creator/created 

i think so, its the only theory im happy with so far.  there is just so much to break down.   id love to delve into the elders beginnings and the bird faced creature but there is so little to go on i might have to watch a:c before i crack that one.

Possible spoilers***

Theres no way to guage the size of the scorpion ship, it could be closer than the juggernaut?

my bet is that it is some kind of docking ship and possibly takes down the juggernaut if/when it drops its payload.

i mean, lets look through engineer eyes, would you honestly expect one of your own ships to show up and drop da bomb?  Not really, must be how they get so close.

david must have some insight into engineer culture and habits from his research and learning rate, they may show up when they are gathering for a festival/sacrifice.

also, looking at the physics, the black goo would spread through the air like an aerosol,  get circulated round the planet and mutate/kill all complex mammal life, that seems to bethe engineer intention. Shaw could only survive in stasis or by mutating herself.

 @Babylonxeno

I agree i think the other ship is closer to the camera in that pic and it is either a docking ship or some kind of defensive ship for the citadel. Possibly after seeing what the dropped black goo is doing to the population below they fire a weapon that chars or burns all the life forms below into their petrified positions, as sort of a fail safe to stop the mutating of these organisms. Then they attack or try to take down the juggernaut but are destroyed in the process while forcing Davids juggernaut to crash into the woods on the mountain....just speculation but its a possibility

Yeah, I mentioned in another thread that the scorpion tail ship might just be closer to the camera and may be of similar size to the juggernaut.  The "sun" is low in the sky to the right per lighting on buildings/ships and the shadows from the pillars on the ground being quite long.  If this ship is just behind the hole (docking bay) then there should be a really big shadow on the mountain side near the dome to the left.  I think the two ships might link together per the screening where folks got the David quote about gods and humans, etc.  Then bombs away.  Why would they link together?  No clue.

I like the defensive ship idea as well though Grinning.

GDL,

Let me put this spin on the scorp ship.  Say the Scorp ship was already present and being flown by another humanoid race or even the same engineer race dropping off supplies (remember there are supposed to be several iterations of humanoids) and people were gathering for it and not so much Juggs.  Keep in mind this could also be a monastic side/culture of the engineer race.  David takes advantage of the situation with the people gathering and drops the urns on them and they subsequently get taken out by the Scorp and have to crash land the Jugg. Since the Black Goo damage is done Shaw has to take refuge in stasis until David can get them out of there or he can manipulate the goo enough to make Shaw immune/mutate to/from it .

@Rick

What you said but I think the scorpion tail ship is a docking station.  One description from the Cinemacon scenes said that two ships connect and then David bombs the folks below.  Either way, I think the scorpion tail ship does something like incinerate the population to keep the goo from spreading too far.  It also could cause the juggernaut to crash.  But then where does it go?

@Rick 

@KurtisRay

i think that what u both suggested all seems to jive or could be the way it plays out. Kurtis in regards to your question of where did it go? 

combining what Rick and you hinted at combined with my thoughts.... Perhaps the scorpion ship is flown by Engineers or even possibly the higher race of beings above the Engineers that Ridley has hinted at. Maybe they are stationed there to oversee and monitor this planet, possibly to drop supplies on occasion as Rick mentioned. If this ship is indeed piloted by the superior race this would explain better why, if they did, torch all the humanoids below as a fail safe.... Because if it was a higher race of beings they would just see it as a failed experiment and they had to stop the mutation so they fried everyone. Perhaps they shot David's juggernaut out of the sky and instead of investigating it's crash they simply left the planet, as their purpose there is no longer needed.

they probably won't go this way but it would be a cool way to hint at another race out there that might one day run into our protagonists or return to exact terrifying revenge .... I love this stuff lol

@Grinning

I like it! :)

@sherris

I agree that maybe the Engineers lost females at one point and this is why Mankind was created, i thought we had proof when we saw the set shots of the Burnt Engineers i assumed this to be a Ancient Event and indeed there was Females.

But now it seems this event happened after David and Shaw Arrived here.. It must mean that Indeed there are Females on this World.

We dont see none in the Live Shot of those beings but then we do not see the faces of every one of them in that shot.

So who knows what the deal or connection is, because Spaights had said as far as the Engineers go that they did at one time have the ability to reproduce but they lost this ability over time and had to resort to other methods of reproduction.

Ridley Scott on Prometheus and the Sacrificial Scene claimed it did not have to be Earth, and that these beings could Create by other means but the Sacrificial Way is just they way they CHOOSE to do it.

so if these are Engineers and they have Females then why Create Mankind?

If these beings are not Engineers but other Humanoid Creations created like Mankind was then this would explain why we see Females if the Engineers had lost that ability.

If you rewatch the beginning of Prometheus you can see that this place is Paradise.

BD, The best way to have an experiment(s) succeed is to have multiple iterations of the same experiment with slightly different variables to see how the experiment plays out in each case.  So us being the 4th or 5th iteration would make sense and don't forget the engineers are at the same level of playing field we are since our genome is the same as theirs albeit at a slightly higher tech level.  

"I think the scorpion style vessel may have arrive or been sent out from the hangar opening to investigate the juggernaut that has appeared mysteriously on this planet. "

In regards to this ship there has to be a few options... firstly if you look at the images i posted, we can clearly see there is a Large Distance from the Central Hanger with those Statues (there has to be a Purpose).

They have the same Pose as Buddha Offering Statues, which sometimes are depicted having a Bowl of Offerings, now in context to Prometheus i was to caste your attention to the Sacrificial Scene.  After Prometheus Ridley Scott Mentioned this Scene was like a Ancient Tribe on Earth Ceremony where One Sacrifice would be Chosen by his Tribe and Treated as a Prince for a Year and then after a Year they would be Sacrificed for the Greater Cause of his Tribe to Appease the Gods.

The Hanger seems to be right in the Center of the Courtyard and some distance from the City and its monuments and the Cathedral.  So the Hanger is some Central Part of this Culture that looks a bit Ancient, the main Technology we can see is the Hanger, the Scorpion Ship and the Gold Device on the top of the Cathedral Dome.

Why the Statues in the same Offering Pose as some Buddha Statues and also seem to be holding a Bowl?  Unless this is where Superior Beings come with their Ships and Collect Sacrifices at this place...

This is the Docking Area for these Ships/Beings which only come now and again, and this would explain why those thousands of beings would all wander to the Hanger and seem to be oblivious to what this Ship is,  they seem to know about the purpose of the Hanger and how Ships would have came in the past and so it makes sense if the Visits by a Superior Race they Worship took place at this point of the Courtyard they would have knowledge or even legends of such Gods (if they had not been visited for some time).

It appears they have not gathered here with No Idea what is in the sky, but it would appear also they are not aware this Ship is a Death Ship.

So this Hanger has to have some Religious Importance, or Cultural.  What if the Engineers were created to be used as Sacrifices and the other Ships would come and collect them now and again?

If you cast your eyes to the Hanger again, we can see it clearly is not all the way open.  But then it is open in the aftermath not only prior to the Covenant Arriving but also After.

So if we again look at how far open it appears during the approach of the Juggernaught and shot with the Scorpion ship then here is what has happened.

*The Hanger opens the Scorpion Ship leaves and Hanger goes to shut after, but then it opens back up again. But we need to look at where the Juggernaught is in relation to the Scorpion ship at this time.

*The Hanger opens up to allow the Juggernaught to leave, but this raises questions to who was on that ship, we know David and Shaw had one, and the Covenant finds a Crashed one with Shaw Hologram.

*Two Ships arrive and the Hanger is opening up to allow them or one of them to Enter.

*Hanger is opening up for the Juggernaught, but the Scorpion ships arrives to intercept it, and uses some kind of Tractor Beam etc to draw the Juggernaught towards it (well they both maybe meet more to the Center).

*The Scorpion Ship is not a ship but some Docking Station, but then why would the Hanger be opening up. Unless as first point.

I think a key thing to remember is what are the chances looking at the size of the city and the distance from the Hanger to the City for these beings to Gather here, just as the Juggernaught appears from no where?

They must have had some information or seen it make a slower entrance, or it was detected entering the atmosphere which alerted those beings to gather to the Hanger as they expected it was their Superior Creators turning up.

The Scorpion Ship/Docking Device then either arrives from some place else or rises from the Hanger and then Hanger closes and waits for the Juggernaught to slowly arrive at this place.

Explaining why the Scorpion Device/Ship is located where it is and leaving enough time for those beings to gather around the Hanger.

Ingeniero

Ty for backing up my point!

I noticed, as we all did in PROMETHEUS that the inside of the temple building looked like just stome construction, but then David worked with the door controls, which looked like nothing more that just engraved symbols in stone, and when he was working with them, they glowed.

So, Engineer technology might be EVERYWHERE in the Engineer city, yet looks unimpressively mundane to our eyes and aesthetic sense.

That said, I love all the theorizing and analysis going on in this Topic, you all have a sharply-incisive approach to such with good reasoning and rationales!