PLANET 4: Potentially Leading to Spoilers

"If you rewatch the beginning of Prometheus you can see that this place is Paradise."

Possible, Ridley said the Sacrificial Scene does not have to be on Earth, and it bugged him how people assume this.

so indeed it could be this Planet, and this Planet could indeed be Paradise, this was the intention of Shaw and Davids destination and Ridley had even said after announced Alien Covenant they are off to the Planet of the Engineers.

So it could be Paradise, i would say its 75% likely to be the case and i will leave 25% open for it being another place.

Hopefully the movie will clear this up, but the intention for Prometheus 2 was to go to Paradise.

Paradise does not have to be the Engineers Homeworld, we was shown the Elder Engineers which Ridley removed because he did not want to Meet God in the first movie, i also think he was disappointed with how the Elders looked.

Alien Covenant has a Hall of Heads, that look more like the Elders Heads and Ridley Scott said these are the Apostles and Superior beings... he also claimed this area is where the Engineers keep their Knowledge.

For Ridley to point out these Elder looking Statues as Superior beings when we have all those Dead Beings and now we have shots of them Alive... must mean there is a difference between those beings on Paradise and those in the Hall of Heads?

Or maybe this is just those same beings and Ridley meant Superior as far as to Mankind.  I find how Ridley mentioned Apostles now we can not jump to conclude this means the Apostles of Christ thus connecting to the 2000 year ago Outbreak.

Apostles could just mean a Higher Ranked Group of beings who served a purpose advocate's and disciples of a higher Agenda and Cause above the Engineers and all Creation lower than this on the Caste Level of the Hierarchical Ladder.

So these 10 Heads represent a Ancient Elder beings who represent a higher purpose ideology and cause.

We also have to look at Paradise, it depends which Religion you look at and Mythos as some have it as a place where the Honorable Dead Go, many cultures that being those who died in Battle or in the name of their God. 

In context to the Bible and Paradise Lost Poem then Paradise was the Place where the Garden of Eden was, where God had created a World of Bliss and Beauty that he would reserve for his New Creation Mankind (Adam and Eve) to Dwell on, and live in peace and tranquility as long as they served and obeyed God.

But they was lead astray by Satan, and went against Gods Instructions and Mankind (Adam and Eve) were kicked out of Paradise.

So in context to the Franchise indeed Paradise could be the Cradle of Civilization where these Superior Beings had Created Humanoid Life on in their Image.

So this could be the Sacrificial Scenes Location, those beings on Paradise being another Humanoid kind who proved to be more faithful to the Engineers or their Hierarchy as opposed to early versions... or are these earlier versions of Mankind?

You're most welcome Blackwinter-witch.

I believe another example of the technology blending into the background is when the juggernaut playback is activated by the Covenant crew and you see the playback hologram light up.

There is obviously an unseen mechanism that unspools the urns and deploys them outside the juggernaut.

Advanced Applied Android Analysis: Hair Growth 

David 8 is born bald and his skin is made of advanced polyurethane that I assume is what his hair is constructed of as well.

David 8 is shown bleaching his medium-length hair prior to arrival on LV-223.

David 8 engages someone wearing a robe with long hair. These 2 images below may be from Alien: Awakening.

Later, David 8 attacks those on Paradise at the temple with short hair similar to how he looks when meeting with Captain Oram and Walter.

The Covenant crew arrives when there are still corpses laying around so the David 8 attack was closer to the end of the 10 year break in between Prometheus and Alien: Covenant because his hair is the same and corpses haven't rotted away.

The images above in which David 8 has long hair and wearing an Engineer robe...I believe those are from Alien: Awakening and during the 10 years David 8 and Dr. Shaw spent together before the events of Alien: Covenant.

You are going to have to bare with me and forgive my poor Photo-shop skills (PS not using Photo-shop lol)

I roughly guessed the size difference as below.

How did i do this?

Well dont take it as Scientific by any means, i drew a line from the edges of the ships until they hit where the ground level comes (used the Pillars as reference) then i drew a line from the center of the Scorpion ship again to the ground/city.

I then took various buildings and Pillars within the area that fell below this ship and pasted them over the same areas that lines would fall with the Juggernaught.

Then i adjusted the % of the items brought from below the Scorpion ship until i got the city blocks and pillars to be about the same size.

Then i applied this Percentage Reduction to the Scorpion Ship (60%)  and this is the result... and while it is only a guess i think it surely could be the ships are different sizes.

I also notice that the Juggernaught when doing some other scaling compared to the Pillars that line up centered to the left and right of the Hanger will show the Juggernaught would just about fit inside the Hanger.

Which means maybe its unlikely the Scorpion Ship/Device would fit inside of it.

@Ingeniero

Maybe its to be 100% Sure, i would assume the Bombardment scene is set as a Flash Back and i would assume it happens not long after they arrived at this Planet.

I would assume after this David sets off the Message that the Covenant picks up many years latter, and i would assume Davids Hair has grown in the many years after the Bombardment and the Covenant arrives.

I would think Walter tries to take a look at David and give some Maintenance and maybe he has his hair cut in this scene, and i think David would also be having some important dialog with Walter and maybe trying to get him on Davids side. For example telling Walter he is restricted due to the limitations put upon him that David does not.

This is where the Walter Viral Teaser comes into play... "Learn from me, if not by my precepts, at least by my example, how dangerous is the acquirement of knowledge"

The Answer very Dangerous, we have to look at Adam and Eve and take note of the differences that the Forbidden Fruit gave them, would be the same as if David was to unlock Walters Restrictions on his Programing and give Walter the Emotional Freedom that David has.

Could the statues be in reference to different sects of Engineers similar to those from the North, South, East, and West?  I think these Engineers knew of the LV223 mission and were suprised to see this ship finally returning after thousands of years. 

BigDave

" "If you rewatch the beginning of Prometheus you can see that this place is Paradise."

 Possible, Ridley said the Sacrificial Scene does not have to be on Earth, and it bugged him how people assume this.
 So indeed it could be this Planet, and this Planet could indeed be Paradise, this was the intention of Shaw and Davids destination and Ridley had even said after announced Alien Covenant they are off to the Planet of the Engineers.
 So it could be Paradise, i would say its 75% likely to be the case and i will leave 25% open for it being another place. "

This post of yours, just solved a nagging problem I've been having regarding element in my story-works.
Specifically:
" Ridley said the Sacrificial Scene does not have to be on Earth, and it bugged him how people assume this. "

This opened up a nice door for a proper explanation/backstory regarding why a world in my stories is 'better than Earth-like'.

Thank-you for posting this, your contribution really helped me out to a very considerable degree!!

No Problem ;)

Oh i have roughly estimated the City and its Pretty Big, the Cathedral and Courtyard is Huge.

This is based on the Hanger being the same size as that in Prometheus (430M Approx).

So this means the Cathedral is bigger than the Temple Mound in Prometheus which was nearly 710M

What an excellent post! Thanks for creating it BigDave!! Gonna feature it!

No Problem... ;)

It seems there could be over a Million of those beings who ended up meeting their Doom at the hands of David.

@big dave

i think u r spot on with your view that the david bombardment scene is a flashback.

when the crew find the dead civilisation, they are attacked.  david with long hair, in a cloak sets off a flare and we can see his hair has grown. he "saves" them (lol)

now they must communicate with david and this is where it may flash back to describe how david has ended up on the planet with a charred civilisation.   he must of crashed after the bombardment. possibly due to the scorpion or other preventative measures.

so it was years before. as he has short hair on the jugganaught and long hair when they meet him.   

which will change again as he tries to impersonate walter to get on the MAIN ship (maybe)

also: imo alien: awakening is maybe david on the main ship with the colony. alien awakening (from cryo) davids army

why? if alien 5 is after covenant there is no way fox will allow a non linear story in the prequels. no chance. its a mis quote for me.

Alien awakening? Yes, maybe the covenant colonists get infected when they arrive where they are going, earth sends an army to wipe out all mutations, and drop in some surviving engineers or super engineers to take revenge.

LV 426 is a Company name for their Weapons Department Test Site. Not the Actual Planet Name. It's not even mentioned in Alien by that Name. The Planet is Named After The Moon.

Shaw is there. I'm going with David, reading everything in the Temple, translating the Engineers languages , realised the Engineers created mankind in a Birth Cycle for a Supeior Being the Seed worlds with Thru The Black Goo and their Own DNA. They didn't invite Mankind out of kindness, it's a Sacrifice.

The Head Room was a Birthing Chamber that's why that Black Goo is Under Tamp Control with a Xeno Black Type in Cryo, the Type they can only Get From Humans, ie MARY WHEN THEY TOOK HER WITH THEM. THEY DID NOT REALISE IT WOULD LAY FACE HUGGER.... That's why the Place went to pot. The Room has a Frozen Xeno, not a Mural, which is Why David Never went Back in There and Left Fifield. And the Other Scientist. The Head was in their so the Black Goo and Xeno could assimilate with The Xeno... humans interrupted. The Engineer was suppose to Drop it and The Black Goo Off on Earth to Reseed The Planet. Shaw had Millions of Sperm within Her. She's Infected. That's why the Engineer was staring at her.

The Ultramorph unfrozen. I'm fairly certain it caused the Juggernauts Crash and damaged Shaw.... 

Yes, the two juggernauts is a conundrum. A flashback from the engineers’ glorious past or driven by David and Shaw? Why would they travel in different spacecrafts? What have they been up to for the last 10 years (Probably something interesting since there will be both a novel and a film?)?

As you accounted for, BD, David seems to pilot the vertically tilted juggernaut (which seems bigger because it is closer to us?), and drops the mutagen-filled ampules on the gathered engineers (?) below (How are they infected? Is it contagious through the air, that is to inhalate? Is it lethal to get it on the skin?).

One possibility to explain the two juggernauts is, as you have suggested, that David pilots the scorpion juggernaut and Shaw the other. Why? It depends of course on what they have been up to, but suppose that Shaw chases David in order to destroy him? She catches him just as he reaches “Paradise” but is shot down and it’s her juggernaut (and dog tag) that the team from The Covenant finds? David’s juggernaut is “parked” in the hangar?

IF the hologram shows the last event, then maybe shaw flew the jugganaut.

now the tracklisting says 

payload deployment

command override

im going to assume payload deployment is the release of the cannisters.

now that means command override is next.

could it relate to the shaw / david ships theory.

so does shaw try and attempt to override the deployment of cannisters?

the jugganaut crashes so it may happen at this  point.

now what if david tells the crew one story of what happened, then the crew discover the hologram to back this up or disprove it?

however, david is clever and he has had time to come up with a story.  maybe he even sent the signal for a covenant detour to rescue.

i think there was some form of disagreement between shaw and david and it relates to "command override"

although it could just as easy be the large ship - if it docks with the jugganaut, perhaps it has an override fail safe.

i believe the track listing is in order as it needs to flow like the film.  it has to be that way.   it gives us clues to the order of the story but not what will be revealed.

we may know more later today

@Saturnyne

To some degree i think you could be correct, Sacrifice is a important part of creation shown in the Franchise, and maybe we was created for this Reason...  The Annunaki Tale could play a role here, as the Gods (Annunaki) Created a lower caste of beings the Igigi to perform Labor for Gold to the benefit of the Annunaki Gods (they needed Gold for their Atmosphere).

The Igigi rebelled against this Toil and so Mankind was created to replace the Igigi for this task..

If we replace the Annunaki with Elders (or Hierarchy) and Igigi with Engineers, and the Mining for Gold with some other Purpose that the Engineers was used for, but rebelled against and then Mankind was created to bare that Toil or Sacrifice.

I think this could work, it was the idea i was heading towards when working on my abandoned Prometheus 2 draft.

I am not so sure about the Frozen Ultramorph though, if this was in the Mural i fail to see how this effects the Juggernaught that David and Shaw are on... The Mural is just that a Stone Mural that depicts in part experiments with Face Hugger Related Organisms with the eventual aim to Create or had created the Organism in the Mural.... or from the Mural Deacon they had reverse Engineered the various Face Huggers.

"Keep in mind this could also be a monastic side/culture of the engineer race."

That is a great way to describe those on Paradise Rick.

The complex on Paradise does look like a monastery with the architecture, clothing, guard down, few women if any...

@Chli

I believe i have figured out in part the Bombardment.

F is the Floor of the Cargo Hold that gives way and D is where David would be standing around the rim of the Circle space that appears.

This explains this shot where the Covenant crew enter the Juggernaught.

I will say this is pretty much 80% Accurate... i think this is what happens.

But as far as the Scorpion Ship which it docks with....

I can not say where this comes from or why it is needed to Bombard a World (Engineer who was leaving in Prometheus must not have needed this).

I dont think the Scorpionaught comes from the Hanger though.

Indeed they could be a Humanoid related Race who still keep the Rituals and Worship to the Engineers as we was intended to had done so...

And so they have a Pact a Religion if you will that they live their lives by... much like those Prisoners in Alien 3

So maybe those beings are not naturally Bald but they do this in honor of their Creators and as a form of Worship like Buddhist Monks

BigDave, that is a great connection with those on Fury 161. Paradise could be Papillon.

Also, I do believe you are very close if not exact in the analysis of where the juggernaut connects with the larger ship. This connection is only amplified with your analysis of the chair below (seat of creation).

Even after the movie, there is almost no information about the past 10 years after A:Prometheus.

Shaw was probably learning how to fly the ship by david, in return she repaired him and he then started to take control over the ships systems and did research more about the black good mass destruction weapons.

But wait, who said those "weapons" are actually weapons? What if that ship was intended to bring the black good DNA to other planets, or transform other lifeforms into new ones!?

Maybe humans were actually intended to become weapons themselves and the normal human evolution was just the first stage!?

What is clear after the movie, is that Elisabeth didn't know anything about the destruction of the Paradise culture. She probably was sleeping in one of the stasis pods of the engineers.

Because travelling 10 years, without food on a alien ship is more than unrealistic, ever thought about that?

David probably promised her, to wake her up as soon as they arrive on Planet 4 / Paradise. But as you know, his programming and prior mission had a huge failure and he started seeing humans and engineers as weak und a waste of evolutionary potential. He then started to think about creating the ultimate lifeform.

The Xenomorph!

I love the Alien franchise, but I am having some trouble with the questions from Prometheus that weren't answered in Covenant.. Like what happened to Shaw? This "engineer" planet didn't look like the Engineer's.. What happened to Walter when he was very close to beating David? Deacon from Prometheus that was drawn on the walls (staying alone in 10 years, means it died)? I left the theatre a bit confused.. And I wish Ridley would answer these or say, this all be answered in the next film, but with the reviews I'm afraid he may even choose to not do another.. ;/ 

I've been reading more on Ridley's interviews and it seems like Alien:Awakening will answer these questions as it will be an in-between Prometheus and Alien:Covenant. If this is the case, then it does sound exciting and I hope all the questions will be answered then. 

The Engineers planet does not compute. It could not be the Engineers or their planet. Dropping the black goo in one location would not affect the entire planet. Not certainly at the speed that would prevent them from reacting. They would be able to leave the planet, or inactivate the black goo, and turn David into atoms if he was lucky, subatomic particles if he was not. It would be surprising for them to even allow a ship to approach without some id code. Additionally they would likely know what the cargo would be. They would all certainly not gather conveniently in one place looking at the ship in awe so that the android can exterminate them in one sweep. Why look at ship you built in awe. It would likely even be an old model by then lol.

This should have been handled or explained better in the movie. Makes the plot weak! 

Probably they were looking up, because they waited for this ship in joy.

Some of the facial expression of the "engineers" was like they were happy, happy that the mission is over and the ship of destruction came back in one piece and fullfilled its mission.

Then one of them realizes that there was no success in the first place and that their destruction was going to take place.

Other theory is, that these aliens are just another creation of the real Engineers and they already know that kind of technology and stay in contact with their gods.

Maybe Planet 4 was just a research facility and one of their creations, just like Earth. The culture on Planet 4 might have been at the state of earth 2000 years ago.

Since the opening sacrifice scene (Prometheus) took place at Planet 4 and not Earth.
You can tell this by comparing the landscape shots from Prometheus with the landscape shots from Planet 4.

So I say for myself:

Planet 4 is just another Planet on which was brought life through the engineers DNA.
Earth is also just another Planet of that type.

Because in Prometheus, when David activates the ship computer for the first time, you can see millions of holographic planet systems, which could eventually be all the Planets with Lifeforms, which were created by the egineers.