Female Engineers?

Good eye! It may also be a younger male.

Yeah, those two definitely could be female. I've seen a good deal of speculation on here as to the engineers being a genderless species. And @dk, you mentioned younger male, and we saw elder engineers in the beginning of Prometheus, so what is their life span like? How do they procreate? (If they even do) 

This all just leads back to the same big question: who created the engineers? 

HappyXeno- I have no idea what the life span is like. I am only going by the looks of the being in question.

There must be some aging process since the open mouth one looks older than some around him(it?).

@Dk; Yes I thought that too, possibly a teenager/juvenile. 

Yes, the "Synthetic Engineers" (the young, muscular ones) show absolutely no aging with perfect teeth. These definitely show signs of aging. Note that the Elders also age, but look EXTREMELY old (possibly many thousands of years). 

Check out that engineer snap back though 

This does look female and we can clearly see the eyes are not the same as the Engineers and Elders we was shown in Promtheus

There are females in the aftermath of the destruction

Man this scene looks so sad. 

Could be either a young male or a female.The rest I see are adult males.

For some reason I think its this guy here.

Or he is somewhere else in the crowd.

The cap she has on is remarkably similar to the Covenant Crew's head gear . . . 

Insert own wild theory here: _____________ - lol ;) 

I was thinking the same about the cap. Coincidence?

Prior crew?

@Deep space  I thought the exact same thing! I wonder what that could mean?!

 Yep females. 2 of the corpses have breasts.

its tough cos the term "engineer" could relate to at least 3 different types of being. or are they all engineers?

for me there are 3 types so far:

the elders - seen in the deleted intro to prometheus

the engineers - the well defined, pale blue ones (seeders?)

the empire beings - similar to the Elders and look to be male and female.

so i think we can agree that the beings from the empire shoot indeed have females.

Empire beings

i still think there is a chance they are similar to humans and were conceived in the same way as the start of prometheus where an engineer seeder drinks the goo and breaks down. the only difference is that they still have contact with the Elders and shave their heads in respect or religion. maybe something happened on Earth and they stopped visiting us but still visit other beings.

the seeder engineer (theory)

the well defined pale blue engineers are in fact a creation made by the elders.  their purpose to link with civilisations, report to the elders and give the ultimate sacrifice when a planet is ready for populating. these are the beings with no sexual orientation, no male or female they have no need to reproduce. these creations are sacrificed to create life (start prometheus) these creations under the power of the elders grew tired of giving their lives in the order of creation so a stand off, maybe war ensued with the elders.   these creations were made that size as the ultimate designer baby thats why these show no signs of ageing. they fed by the tubes in cryo chamber.  organic creation

elders - shown in deleted scene, hall of heads cud depict these beings. created the seeders to populate planets when they are ready. superior technology - kept the seeders in less tech ships than their own to always have the upper hand, very religeous probably. maybe with the power to effect climate.

so that for me covers the 3 types we seen so far.

I read somewhere that the Engineers had some form of pods for growing humanoids.

seanjohn - well that would fit with the creator / creation roles which then play into david / weyland parallels 

Great topic Svanya. The slightest detail can add so much mystery. I believe the Engineers we saw in Prometheus were military, possibly protecting those on Paradise but who knows. I also believe Alien: Awakening will answer these questions in regards to Engineer history and contact with humanity in the past.

@sherris

I dont think you can go far wrong with that theory.

The Original Idea as far as Spaights was to show that the Engineers and Elders are the same Race, they are just the Engineers and they could procreate at one time (Had Females) but they lost this ability.  And had to resort to more inventive ways to Create Life.

We are created from them, in Spaights draft its a simple Engineer + Sacrificial Goo Infects Primate Female to pass on Engineer DNA to create a Hybrid that Evolves to Mankind.

Creation from Mammals and indeed Humanoids, is a event where a Female Becomes Pregnant and Life Grows within the Womb before giving Birth.

For a Race who had lost this ability, i am sure a Xenomorph/Deacon Birth would be seen in someway of these Engineers Creating Life from within and Sacrificial Birth.

Ridley Scott confirmed as far as Prometheus that these beings (Engineers) could Create Life in other ways but the Sacrificial route was the way they choose to do it.

so its easy to assume that this Race had lost the ability somehow to Create Life, and that the Sacrificial Goo allowed them to Spread their Genome in another way.

So we can maybe assume was the Creation of Mankind a attempt to Regain what they had lost?

Females? i made a Topic on this, because in many Mythos and Tales relating to Gods and Angels, the Gods and Man Lusted for Gold, Power and Females.  Throughout various Mythos we have accounts of Godlike beings that are fond of Females and take part in Sex with them, sometimes not by consent...

Genesis 6:4 comes to mind and also how the Engineer in Prometheus did seem quite intrigued with Shaw especially if we few the alternative and extended scenes.

I will add to this, as you was mentioning about maybe reasons for Creation.  Especially Sacrificial Reasons and indeed a Rebellion could have taken place.  This is likely.

We need to view the Engineers both Sacrificial and LV-223 ones as being the same, was they the left overs of a Race that had lost the ability to Procreate?

Was they created by some other means, like Cloning?

Ridley called the LV-223 Engineers Fallen Angels, and so they represent a Faction of Engineers who Rebelled or did not agree or stick to the Agenda and Rules that was intended by the Hierarchy?

The basis is there but how it connects is something that could span off in many ways, we need to maybe look at Paradise Lost.

Paradise was the Garden of Eden, it was where Mankind was Created and Placed upon after some of Gods Previous Creations (Angels) had Rebelled... So God Created a New Race.... he had tasked some high Ranking Angels (Cherubim) to watch over Paradise and to not allow the Fallen Angels to enter.

The Fallen were kicked out of Heaven (is not Paradise) and they was also not allowed into Paradise, as Paradise was a World Created for Gods new Creation to Live upon and to be watched over by Gods Watchers the Cherubim

Adam and Eve was lead astray by Satan, and disobeyed God and they was kicked out of Paradise.

Paradise in context to the Franchise is not a location on Earth but a separate Planet, and so we have the Gods who do not come from Paradise, we have Paradise as a place that was meant for Gods New Favored creation.

The Fallen Angels are kicked out of where these Gods come from, and they are forbidden from Paradise, Gods next Creation Mankind is also kicked out of Paradise and end up on Earth.

Did the Fallen Angels who escaped, leave with some Humans and Populated Earth, or did the Fallen Angels decide to create Mankind (different version) on Earth?

Or did the Engineers take some Humans to Paradise, and raise these in a way they intended for Humans on Earth but while on Earth we are rebellious and never turned out in a way that pleased the Gods, so they Forsaken us.

Could these Humanoids on Paradise be the Righteous of Mankind who serve the Gods, and still live by the values and concepts and importance of Sacrifice the Gods had laid down?

So there are many ways this can unfold..

These beings could be a related but different kind of Humans, either predate us or came after us.

These beings could be actual Humans who are deemed worthy and are not to close to Engineers, but they worship them and as part of their Religion they Shave all the hair off their bodies to be like their creators?

I would certainly say some (who knows what %) of those beings on Paradise are not 100% Genetically Engineers like the LV-223 and Sacrificial Ones.

As far as the image of Jacques Pierre i have compared the two and to me the Eyes and Ears are a bit different especially the Eyes.

So i would assume this is not the Female that was highlighted for this Topic, we cant be 100% on that though.

As for the Cap Wearing being, thats interesting too and also looks Female..

We cant be sure if this shot has Females not everyone is facing the Camera... what we do know is somewhere near the Courtyard and either piled up towards and near the Gate, and also the Cathedral Entrance appear to be dead beings that are 100% Female.

Everyone has some very interesting ideas. I hope we get some proper answers to it all. Cant wait. 

They are Asexual. Also, I'm going with they only breed for reproduction. The Arcturians from Aliens the Colonial Marines were having sex encounters with. It would explain the reasons for the breeding attempts

All the models are male. I'm going with Asexual because not once have we seen a female engineer. Also for seeding a Planet, wouldn't a female a female provide a better seeder than a male with her mother and fathers potentials shared Moore evenly. Unlike males share 70%of their mothers RNA. It's why I believe they are Asexual, like the debugger was intended

Arcturians

The Arcturians are not asexual nor are they aliens...

was never a war. The whole society is asexual. They have weaponry for defense. They created most of the life they know of or could kill others. The engineer we know is born from the Black Goo it's self. It's a hybrid augmented by a diluted version probably parts per millionth. But his skin and size allowed him to survive on LV 223 surface no helmet.

They are asexual and created to seed worlds with their dna for the sake of regrouping their God, creator and his world. That's why they created mankind and those other worlds. It was never a war. That's human. They have a purpose. They render a white Xeno. The Neomorph. They need a black xeno. They found a black xeno when took Mary from human duo sexual reproduction, remember Adam was one sex and perfect. Now they found their Black Xeno but had no Idea she would Produce Eggs and they would hatch. They Froze Mary in the Head room as She Could resurrect their God , prepared the sacrifice of the Head and Ampules of ready Black Goo, and the Trapped Mary Xeno, remember Mary was taken into Heaven whole.... that wasn't a Mural but an actual Xeno, the ULTRAMORPH. THE HUMANS DISTURBED HER CYCLE. LV 223 was suppose be where mankind would sacrifice themselves to her and the Engineer would sacrifice Earth. The true purpose of Mark nd. No one creates for reason. All creations have a purpose.

They never had a war. They would have blasted the Juggernaut out the Sky. I'm going with the Ultramorph was on the Juggernaut and caused the Crash and laid the Eggs.the holes are from acid not crash.

Here are Females, they can be seen in a few other shots too, but i agree the Live Footage of Not Dead beings its hard to confirm Females.

Likely these beings are the Engineer's new and improved humans, which is why they want to destroy us. They made a better model. Similar to David and Walter. There are females because they are similar to us, but probably favored by the Engineers (gods). These aren't the Engineers themselves.

As far as the War etc, we dont know 100% what route they are taking this was the whole Scope of the Sequel and how Prometheus had set down clues, it was so ambiguous that its hard to figure what connections are.

So everyone can have their own theories and its not really 100% possible to discredit or proof them, its all part of the fun debating and its a matter of time before we get some things cleared up.

I still think the Paradise lost Theme will be loosely explored. But this can be fitted in a number of ways, because Paradise Lost showed us.

*A God the Superior Being who created those below him which include the Angels and Mankind, and in context to the Franchise this God could be Gods, it could be a Hierarchy and we dont know how many levels, so we could see Elders ==> Engineers but then there could be layers above the Elders and we have to wonder is there ONE being who is at the very Top who we may never meet.

*Angels a servant creation of God (Hierarchy) where there are a few different Castes, some of these Rebelled when God (Hierarchies) Favored Angel had Rebelled.  There was a War between this Rebellious Angel and his Followers and those Angels who sided with God.  The Fallen Angels defeated and cast out of Heaven and so they made their own Kingdom in Hell.  In Terms of the Franchise the LV-223 Engineers appear to play the role of Fallen Angels.

*Mankind (Adam and Eve) Created after the Rebellion but they too had gone against Gods will and are cast out of Paradise.  In context to the Franchise, this could be Humans, it may not have to be those on Earth.

That is the Nuts and Bolts of it all, but we do not know how many Factions/Layers of Engineer Castes there are, we do not know how many variations/generations of Mankind are at play and we can not be 100% sure if the Elders are merely just older Engineers who act as the Hierarchy, or if they are a different but related Race to Engineers or indeed if there is other Races above the Elders.

Hopefully these things may be touched upon in Alien Covenant.

bigdave - you have some mind getting all that going on!

i think you are about there by saying it may relate to the paradise lost theme loosely.  

im just wondering if they maybe a twist (of course) where we would have to look at the order of it all.

like u said the engineers 223 seem to be the fallen angels etc...

as far as the elders, for now, we can only assume that they are the highest order, over engineers 223 and the beings in the city.

it is likely there is another force which alien: covenant may touch on but for now we can only debate!

the bird faced character from the mural (if indeed they exist ?)

seems to put them below engineers 223 but again im no further forward on this.  

any thoughts on that characters possible link or any other mention towards it in any story / interviews ?????????

after my comments on the 3 types of engineers, saying that the engineers 223 were creations made by the elders....

@seanjohn said "ive read somewhere the engineers grow humanoids in pods"(or close)

now my thoughts on engineers223 are they were created by the elders as an organic creation

if they indeed ARE grown in pods (? rumoured) would that link to the alien incubation/birth cycle in some way? 

(of course they not grown in pods too)

Indeed we cant be sure which way they are going...

If we look at it from the Start of the idea here is what we have.

Spaights introduced us to the Engineers Humanoid beings who seemed to seed life in a Benevolent Act it makes no identification of Elder/Engineers. 

Of Note... Seeding Ships are Pyramids.

Lindeloffs draft Makes the distinction between Elders and Engineers.

Of Note... Seeding Ships are Juggernaught Shape.

This Evolved to Prometheus where the Seeding Ship became the Teardrop and we saw the Engineer and Elders.  But the Theatrical Cut removed the Elders because Ridley Scott did not want to meet the Gods in the first movie and was a bit disappointed with how the Elder Scene came across.

so this gave us a insight of some kind of Hierarchical Order which seems to be that some Race/Being was above the Engineers, it now seems with AC we are shown the Hall of Heads which look like Elders, so these are maybe the Hierarchical Superiors 

But we dont know in what context...

1) Are they similar but a different Race who create the Engineers in their Image and so would be like the Anunnaki/Igigi and God/Angels kind of Caste System?

2) Are they more like the Greek Gods where we have Titans and Olympians where the latter are actual Children of the Titans?

3) Are the Hierarchical Order similar to how Ancient Egypt was as in the Pharaohs and Mankind.

4) Or a more simplistic approach and the Elders are just that, the very oldest and wisest of the same Race, like Tribal Elders on Earth.

Right now i would say the Superior Beings in the Hall of Heads and Sacrificial Engineer Relationship has to be one of those 4.

Shaw wonders who created them (Engineers) this would be a interesting Topic if Option 3 or 4 are what we are shown as far as the Superior Beings/Apostles in the Hall of Heads are, as we can then ponder who indeed created them.

The Source i had from over 2 years ago claimed the Order of Creation is Multi-layered and Creation did not start with the Engineers (they was created) and does not end with David (so he creates something), but they also hinted that those who created the Engineers are also not at the Top of the Chain.

As far as the Beings being Grown in Stasis Pods, i am not sure if its mentioned any place else...  But this was what the Source had claimed... They said one concept showed Pods a bit like the Matrix Scene, where Humanoid Babies where being Grown.

They did not explain the connection and who these beings are, but if indeed the LV-223 Engineers are Grown like Clones then this could be how its done.

The Source did say that David has a lot in common with the LV-223 Engineers, which explains why there was a look of pity before David got his head taken off.

I cant voucher if any of this is True, but it has made me wonder where those Human Baby Skulls came from in Alien Covenant.

As far as the Fresco...

I have always seen it as Prometheus Punishment, without getting into to deep details.  And i wonder if the result of this Punishment allowed the Engineers to witness the Birth of a Creature that they then decided to Experiment on.

Turning a Intended Punishment towards them, into a Weapon for them.

If Experiments from this, lead to the Deacon which they then considered the Perfect Creation, this would show us why the Deacon Mural is Worshiped and held in high regard.

Its a attempt to create Perfection, and also praised because it allowed Engineers to Give Birth to New Life, something which they may have Lost... or if they are Clones something which their creators had Lost or simply the Engineers purpose was to be Sacrificed to seed worlds to eventually lead to Humanoids that could Give Birth.

But the Engineers found a way they could now do so themselves, but this is not a traditional Pregnancy but sometimes to Create One Must Destroy.

@big dave - 

your theory around "the fresco" (?) is impressive.

my thinking is the way the bird faced creature is positioned it is almost like it is curled up with its head down seemingly a child like pose as if leaning in towards its parent / god.  or even a master who they are scared of.

which could connect that somehow the engineers 223 who were possibly a creation themselves, somehow managed to create something because  though they had no way of reproducing themselves (as seeders intro prometheus) they found a way by using the black goo and possibly another ingredient to create life but NOT in their own image.  and this may of been when things started to go wrong.

so if their are multiple creator / creation layers this could be another link to that ????

Hi Foxxy_User very interesting statement (I like it.) would you mind to expand into further detail on this please?

Posted Apr-24-2017 5:46 PM

The Arcturians are not asexual nor are they aliens...

Well,  I think Ridley must have copied this scene from either the Life of Brian or Monty Python and the Holy Grail, lets face it the engineers did not do 'peasant'.

I've read Alien:Sea Of Sorrows wich is considered canon as far as I am aware.

 Excerpt from the Book:

"We’re talking a find that may be bigger than anything we’ve run across since first contact with the Arcturians.”
Chatter erupted throughout the group, and Decker felt a sudden wave of excitement that washed over him like a wave. The Arcturians had been the first alien race mankind had encountered, and those initial meetings had marked a turning point for the human race."

I think this makes it clear Arcturians are not human colonists.

Not long now and we will find out, as has been put forth before they could be androgyn or a 2 sex race, i have noticed some look bewildered while looking up, some surprised and some with angry looks on their dials, can't wait to see what fully goes down in this scene.

AC official opening date here in oz is May 11, the tv stations were hammering the advert. out on monday night(fist pumping everytime it was shown during ad breaks.)lol!

@sherris

Indeed thats how  i interpreted it, the pose seems the same the way  Prometheus and the Engineer are looking down the Scar on the abdomen.

The only difference is the Fresco Creature is in a pose that seems either submissive or fetal, which could hint at some control over it.. and that it could be a offspring.

But it could mean the intended Punishment actually lead to those Engineers maybe having some control/dominion over them, it would be like someone sending a Pack of Wolves at you but then you manage to Tame them as Pets to then do your bidding.

The Source i had did say in Context to Paradise Lost Poem and how it connects, that the Event of some of the Fallen Angels being turned into Serpents as Punishment after the Fall, leads to freedom from Bondage.  I guess that can kind of fit.

Another interesting thing... is this Creature seems to look like O'Bannons idea for the Organism in Alien before they turned to HR Giger.

As far as the Arcturians they was not the first Alien, the first complex life found was in Prometheus but indeed these events was never known when Alien and Aliens was made and so its a case of the Prometheus Mission is likely a Wipe Under the Carpet Event the Company wishes to keep Secret.

Story wise it's said that Weyland went missing. Even among WY-Personnel, at least the lower ranks.

i still thinking for me, the civilisation in the city

this race are a creation like humans, created as at start of prometheus

they still have contact with their gods (unlike humans, that stopped, maybe 2000 years ago.).

the gods are the elders

there seems to be some sort of sacrifice and worship going on.

they have / had contact with engineers223 at some point as they recognise ship.  maybe that stopped for a time IF the elders and the engineers223 had a stand off or war (unknown)

i know empire said "engineer city" (or close) but i am sticking with this

big dave

thank you for the fresco detail and the pre giger pick i never knew existed. so i guess you thought that they might be more to this than a coincidence???? or no?????

another life form or ridley maybe remembered it and was used as inspiration for this creature, either way i speculating we see this creature or hear of it in alien: covenant and i hope others in more detail.

thank you