David arrives at the same planet which the engineer drinks the black pathogen

This is what I believe. Paradise, though, is much purer than Earth since they use the EXACT same language or at least text as the Prometheus Engineers and seem to be on good terms with the Engineers. Cherubim being the protector angels (Engineers) to watch over Paradise is also a possibility. 

I agree also that David wiped out a creation of the Engineers/Elders. A more human looking form of life in regards to the facial features, eyes etc., but also still looking quite like the Engineers from the extended beginning of Prometheus.

I wonder, are they naturally bald or do they shave their heads in worship of the Engineers and Elders in the extended opening scene?. Do they perhaps dress that way in worship also? The dress is quite similar to the Engineers in the extended Prometheus opening.

Have the Elders, and perhaps also the military type Engineers been to the planet before and are seen as godlike figures and a higher species of being, for worship.

Did they think these type of Engineers had returned to them once again to bestow more knowledge on them, or teach them something more perhaps?.

Had the military/LV-223 type Engineers been in the past and built the docking station? And the locals thought they were visiting again?.

I think there are LV-223 military type Engineers still out there and they will learn of the happenings on the paradise planet and will deduce that humans are even more dangerous than 2000(ish) years ago when they first planned to wipe them out on Earth, and they will attempt to do this again. The actions of humanity's creation (David) I think will only strengthen their resolve in this idea.

I wonder if the next film will touch on this, with an LV-223 looking military type Engineer perhaps setting off for Earth to finish the job with Xeno facehugger Eggs in the derelict Cargo hold, but unfortunate events see it have to put down on LV-426, linking to ALIEN.

@ EWATYAMORPH - 

I wonder if the next film will touch on this, with an LV-223 looking military type Engineer perhaps setting off for Earth to finish the job with Xeno facehugger Eggs in the derelict Cargo hold, but unfortunate events see it have to put down on LV-426, linking to ALIEN.

I'm not  fan of the idea of the derelict & SJ being more recent events but . . . if that's the direction they are going then that could be a good way to go. 

@Deep Space

I can't remember if I read somewhere on here that they (Ridley and co) had decided definitively that they were heading in the direction of the Space jockey being more recent or not but I have a feeling they will link it that way and possibly discard the idea of the fossilised SJ being thousands and thousands of years old. 

Of course I'm interested to see if they do indeed go the "ancient remains" route, but the more recent remains type route seems to make more sense to link the films, to me personally anyway.

And I just can't see the LV-223 type Engineers discarding this mission to wipe out humans, should they find out about recent events and if there are indeed any of those type of Engineers left. 

In the extended Prometheus scenes I like the way how it goes further and shows the Engineer seeming to react to Weylands claim that he should now have reached god like immortal status because he has created androids like David. 

It brings so much more to the scene and shows how appalled the Engineer is at this outrageous claim by a mere human. 

Fast forward to the next film. If there are other LV-223 Engineers around (I'm not sure there are, just a hunch), and they see what humans creation (David) is doing, then I can only assume they will be infuriated with the audacity of the humans and their creation and wish to wipe them out completely, viewing them as far too dangerous to co-exist alongside in the universe.

Humans and their android creations tampering with ALIEN re-creations (or first time creations) is simply too great a threat to the other Engineer like races in the universe. Or at least that's how I think the Engineers will see it I assume. 

Of course I could be way off, but these are early days before the link film or films are realesed, and a fine time for theorising. :)

I will first start off by saying it does seem for all intensive purposes that this is the Planet of the Engineers, and those are supposed to be Engineers.... and its a bit Lazy if you ask me... but these beings are only supposed to be shown on screen briefly and the image posts in OT is the only close up we get where we can see they look a bit different to the Prometheus Engineers but this shot is only like 2-3 seconds or so long.

The other shots of them from above and then running off and then having the Black Goo hit them.. i.e more distant shots, they do appear and could fool us to thinking they are indeed Engineers.

The Close up shot is thus just another Ridley Oversight, much like how the Engineers in Prometheus did not look 9-10ft tall and they should have used LOTR/Game of Thrones Effects.

Such as Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun

Who is also played by our very own Prometheus Engineer Actor Ian Whyte.  This Giant is about the size of the Space Jockey Race that was intended on average in the drafts. 12-15ft

They could have done the same Trickery to make the Engineers appear a more modest 9-10 ft tall instead... but alas.. using viewing angles and having Ian Whyte stand on a higher pane at times was thought good enough to make them look Giants.

We was not meant to notice... much like the Space Jockey when they used Child Actors and then Adults up close... so the Space Jockey appeared 21ft Tall (supposed to be 26ft) but then up close we see its about 13-15ft which is about the Prop Size.

This is a Oversight we are not meant to had noticed, and the Human Looking Engineers in Alien Covenant i believe sadly is the same kind of oversight.

Bit Lazy really... as they could have done a E + F from this image but i think they felt its not worth it as these beings up close will only appear on screen for a few seconds.. up close to the point we can see the differences.

As I stated on the other common thread (I won't repost the whole thing here, I wouldn't want to bore you, lol) I find it incredibly difficult to believe they could be so lazy but maybe BigDave is sadly right after all.  If so, I find that incredibly disappointing, as not just an Alien fan and/or a Ridley fan, but as a fan of moviemaking in general.  I would find it unforgivable and a glaring continuity error, per se.  I think most fans (if we all make the assumption that they are 110% undoubtedly "Type A" Engineers) would find that scene - however brief it may be - incredibly jarring and distracting.  If that is the case, I just find it unforgivable not only for the sake of Engineer continuity but also in general moviemaking terms.  With the immense budget they had and the attention to detail Ridley has, I think it is a HUGE misstep.  Futhermore, it would also be kinda insulting for them to think "oh nobody will notice", if that's what happened.  Yeah, maybe your average AvP popcorn face cramming audience member might not notice, but most of Prometheus fans would and have already, judging by comments.

A mistake? An oversight? I find that very hard to swallow. This is 2017 where everything is captured shot for shot and analysed and discussed to absolute death by the public waiting for movies. Ridley and co know this surely. All it would have taken would be some CGI touching up of the shot to achieve the desired outcome (the Prometheus Engineer face), if the intention was to show David dropping the black liquid on Engineers like we see in Prometheus. 

Im struggling to believe the filmmakers would try to let this slip through in this day and age, it's clearly causing quite a deal of confusion.

But it does leave room to explore them as a different Race... The clues are there in this movie that support a theory like this, which is what i thought they would be and even looking at the movie now there are clues...

1) The beings do not look quite Engineer, Eyes, some of the facial structures and heights are all different... even the Dead Bodies vary in size, some are indeed about 8ft or so but many others are only Human Size,  the beings in the OT shot also look a bit different to each other, varied heights, features and color tones. 

All these points however could be oversights... as per previous Post... and indeed Ridley could just say look at Humans, we are all different heights, facial features and even shades of color too.

2) Ridley Scott referred to on set the Big Head Room, as the 10 Apostles, Superior beings and other Production Staff said they was the Hierarchy. And this room had a very important look to it as far as Religious Importance and where they Stored their Knowledge.

So these beings represented could be the Hierarchy of the Engineers, they could be the same race as the Engineers, but these Heads do look like the Elders in Prometheus...

3) Ridley said (and continues from above point) that they did not want to meet God in the first movie, in regards to the Removal of the Elders Scene.

This means the Engineers are not God, they are a lower part of the Hierarchy and the Elders or who they intended to replace the Elders are the Hierarchy/Gods.  In AC The Hall of Heads look like Elders.

4) Indeed this Race we see on Paradise seem to lack much Technology but now we have seen the Full City some of the buildings look a bit more Advanced but certainly not as far as Earth

But in Star Wars/Star Trek  and other movies  we are shown more Ancient looking Architecture that hides Advanced Technology. But the interior of the Sets we see in Alien Covenant do not look Technologically Advanced at all.

5) The Hanger that was opening up to accept the Juggernaught is surrounded by 4 Giant Statues that are in the same pose as the Buddha Offering Position.  This could mean the arrival of Ships meant to Dock are part of some Ritual Offering.

6) These beings on Paradise all seem to live just in ONE City.  A bit strange and there is only One Docking Ship on this World, again Strange for a Homeworld of beings who had many Ships on LV-223

We have to maybe consider Paradise and the Biblical/Paradise Lost version is this place is a Place on Earth Garden of Eden, (not Heaven) that the Cradle of Civilization had began, its where Mankind was created and it is not where the Gods come from or Angels apart from a few Cherubim who are Watchers/Guardians of the Garden of Eden, in Paradise.  The docking ship perhaps where the Watchers/Cherubim watch over their Hierarchy Creation.

7) Paradise is also referred as a place we go when we die, and in many cultures its a place where only the Honorable and Worthy go, and those who do not please the Gods and are unholy can never go.. Some Cultures its where the Fallen in Battle or those who Die in the name of God Go.

We know the Engineers played a role in our Creation, and at some point we had displeased them and turned out not in the way they intended, we was not Worthy as a Species. Prometheus and Ridleys comments at the time also hint these Engineers could have seeded many Worlds and we are not the only Humanoids... and so Paradise could be where some of these other Humanoids who are deemed worthy are allowed to Dwell, but Mankind is expelled from this place.

8) Exploring upon this, how can a Advanced Race, who had seeded Worlds, only live on one Place in a Small Area with only a Single Docking Ship, yet LV-223 had many.

Prometheus showed the Engineers Ships Navigation and it had Galaxies not just our Galaxy but many others, LV-223 was 39LY away, the nearest Galaxy is over 2.5 Million Light Years away.. why would the Navigation System of the Juggernauts  have many Galaxies listed?  Our Galaxy is vast.. spans Many Billions of Stars, and its no where near as Large as other Galaxies.

So what are the Chances these beings have Maps to other Galaxies and yet only live on ONE world in ONE city with just ONE Docking Ship and No other Technology.

FINALLY.....

9) Those beings seemed to be gathering around the Hanger in Large Numbers, like Hundreds of Thousands maybe. And they seemed to be Cheering on the Arrival of the Juggernaught.

This could be how we would welcome home our War Veterans from Conflict, but think about it... how long have these beings not seen another ship.  If they know this is a War Ship, we have to ask are they aware of the War they was on, and if they knew of the Purpose and LV-223 then surely they would wonder... Hang On? Why has it taken 2000 years? They also appeared to be Surprised by the Bombardment

If instead these beings do not see ships very often and when they return the ships they usually see are the Arrival of their Hierarchy this fits with the Offering Statues around the Hanger and the whole Sacrificial Themes in Prometheus.

So this is instead a important events like the Pope or Queen Visiting other Countries instead.

@EWATYAMORPH

You will be surprised... this movie has a lot of oversights, that could be kind of Plot Holes... but i will get into these after the 21st so as to not spoil those who have not seen the movie.

But indeed there is the chance that Ridley has set us up indeed for bigger things, and indeed just as this Topic is Discussing their is the Hierarchy of Elder beings above all this who do not come from Paradise.

Ridley and FOX listened to Fans complain about the lack of Xeno connections and Xenomorphs in Prometheus...  They maybe could listen to fans complaints about not exploring the Engineer Hierarchy and Multiple Creation Layers.

Ultimately however they would only go back to these if they feel the General Public would be interested... Sadly it seems the Xenomorph is whats more interesting to the General Public.

No im not at all intrested in you I want smb to explain all of this to me. What did you expect I feel attacked by some huge number of strangers but I wouldnt care if you werent involved 

So considering my Posts, and the OT...

Indeed Paradise could be the Place within our Galaxy or our part of the Galaxy that the Elders had decided to Seed Creation, thus the Sacrificial Scene had happened on Paradise.

Paradise is a place where Creation is kept under watch by having Rules  and these include them having to remain within this City as these beings will be the Foundation of Civilization across the Galaxy.

Just as the Movie Aeon Flux touches upon,  there is ONE City where all Civilization has to remain, that is watched over by a Ship (Relical) and its Keeper.

These beings on Paradise are visited by the Elders from time to time, where some are taken away to become Sacrifices to then Seed other worlds... this is seen as a Great Honor for those who take part.

Ships come and take Sacrifices (maybe the beings dont know the full details) and then they are taken to other Worlds just as the Sacrificial Scene.

Once a World is set up, they set up a near by Outpost to Watch Over and Visit their Creations from so as to not directly interfer as much.  These Outposts are where they come and collect samples of Creation and Re-engineer them and when they are happy with he results they re-plant them back to those Worlds.  LV-223 is the Outpost that watches over Earth.  Hence why its Terra-formed so we can breath inside those Temples.

The Star Maps simply show us where we was Engineered from, and where those who visit us Watch Over from.

This is before something went wrong.. a Rebellion within the ranks of creation. Which i can touch upon another time but fits with Paradise Lost but also the Anunnaki Tale

I like the theory as both planets appear to be very similar with the vast lakes but the end of the deleted scene does to me establish that it is Earth where the Engineer sacrifices himself as following the disintegration and the change in genetic coding we pull out of the water the Engineer has dissolved in which is revealed to be the same lake by which Charlie Holloway and Elizabeth Shaw are searching for a cave painting with an invitation to LV-223.

The other thing is the whole premise that these prequels are based on is that the Engineers created humanity or at least manipulated their own constructs to form a subspecies which became humanity so to change the location of the Engineer sacrifice from Earth to Paradise does sort of take away from the overall theme. I have no doubt that the Engineers probably performed that ritual on other worlds and Paradise could very easily have been one of those worlds though the end of Prometheus would establish Paradise as the Engineers home world or at least it seems Ridley has intended that. 

The only other point I want to make is regarding the whole eye thing to do with the Engineers in Covenant having more human like eyes opposed to the Prometheus Engineers which had black eyes, we have to remember the Engineers in Prometheus are old, the ones at the beginning during the sacrificial ritual would be older than life on planet Earth or at least human life, that is assuming that it's Earth, and then later Elizabeth Shaw and Charlie Holloway carbon date the decapitated Engineer's body and Shaw reveals it is approximately 2000 years old which also means the Last Engineer is also approximately 2000 years old and has been in suspended animation since the incident on LV-223.

2000 years is a long time and great variation can transpire within that time. Take real world humans for example we are on average significantly taller than past generations such as the Ancient Egyptians whose average height was around 5ft 4 - 5ft 6, that of course was longer than 2000 years but its still a significant change over a small amount of time so it is perfectly plausible for the Engineers encountered on Paradise by David were 2000 years further along in their evolution than the ones on LV-223.

The most fundamental thing is that there are ABSOLUTELY no other ships other than the Juggernaut and the Scorpion ship (where did that go?) How can a society that is billions of years old (remember, they seeded life on Earth, or so we are told) still be living in ancient Rome type cities. It simply makes NO sense. San Francisco looks like a Godly city compared to the stupid Plant 4 settlement. 

@Derelict426

They indeed could be a version of the Engineers, we have to remember the earliest Star Map was 35'000 years ago and Early Mankind Worshiped them back then and so the Engineers are vastly more than 35'000 years old.. The Sacrificial Scene if this kind of thing also happened on Earth, or it happened on another World but the results was brought to Earth would mean again those LV-223/Sacrificial Engineers are Millions of years old... Hundreds of Millions in fact.. if not over a Billion years old...

Ridley Scott had said the Engineers Technology (relating to their Ships) is perhaps Millions of years old.  So these Engineers have Evolved over time, i think 2000 years we would not see as great a Evolution, that would take a longer time.

We dont know how old those beings on Paradise are or how long they have been there, when Spaights and Ridley was working on the Prequel to Alien the Engineers could live for 100'000 years and had Evolved themselves past the need for Sexual Reproduction.

Those beings on Paradise had Females... and despite what Ridley may have said, but then we have yet to hear him 100% say these beings are not the same as in Prometheus, and as he says the Engineers are not a Race but a Culture/Civilization its open for debate.

Looking at a Evolutionary Point of view, the different Eyes and Skin could be something influenced by the Environments the Sacrificial and LV-223 Engineers lived in compared to the others.

One Evolutionary theory on Earth to explain the different Races on Earth and differences to appearance, are to do with the different environments they evolved in.

which is pretty much why not Many African people are as Hairy as some Northern Folk from Scandinavia and also why  some Scandinavians will burn quicker in the Hot Sun compared to Africans.  All these are due to adapting to the Environments their kind Evolved on for Many Many thousands of years.

@K-Theory

Exactly.... and so i think what i was trying to point out surely has to apply?

We need to look at what is Paradise, and in some cultures its the place where the dead go who have been deemed Honorable by GOD The other version of Paradise is the place where the Garden of Eden is.. if we look at the Bible events... they are as follows.

*After a Rebellion by some of GOD's Creations (Angels) because Gods favored Angel was allowed to much Freewill (Lucifer) which is similar to how David is compared to Walter.

*God Creates a Garden of Eden in a place Called Paradise.

*This place is a Paradise with Trees, Fruit, Crops and Animals.

*God then Creates Adam, and then Eve.. Mankind is thus Created and they are to settle and live in Paradise, under Gods Rules and Laws.

*God then tasks a caste of Angels (Cherubim) to watch over Paradise and the Garden of Eden, and over Mankind.  To make sure they obey Gods Will and to make sure no one who is forbidden enters Paradise apart from those Authorized by GOD.

We can then apply this to Paradise in Alien Covenant, which will explain why there is not much as far as Technology because all the Technology belongs to the Elder Beings (GODS) and Engineers (Angels). A group of Engineers or Elders, are tasked with Watching over those on Paradise...

This logically is the best way to explain what is going on and what we see.

So applying the line of thought of your last post Big Dave.

Do you think the "Engineers", or Engineer looking humanoids on the paradise planet are the first creation of "mankind" in an Adam and Eve sense. A population of these beings are allowed to dwell in this paradise where they eat like us humans do and reproduce like us humans do, hence the male and female in the population and the human vegetation. Now and then their watchers, the Elders, come and pick one for sacrificial duty in spreading life to another planet, and among the dwellers this is celebrated and looked upon as an honour. 

An example of this is shown in the Prometheus opening scene. 

So in this scenario, you view these beings on the paradise planet as the same as the Sacrificial Engineer, but either Ridley was too lazy to have them look the same, which I find appalling, or over time their physical appearance has evolved to look different?.

Where do you think the LV-223 military type Engineers fit in here. They must visit from time to time as the docking station is there for their ship and the native Engineer like beings look to them returning as a thing of wonder and a positive thing.

Cant be the Engineer homeworld.

Not enough orbital/surface structures.

Maybe a small sacral outpost planet.

It looks literally like a paradise with much overgrown wildlife and almost no towns/cities.

Possible scenarios i think are:

1)This beeings are indeed Engineers that evolved after 1-1.5 millions years to feature different facial structures and body-shape/size.

Maybe their culture/technology degenerated over the eon's like the Humanity in the Book Time Machine. And lost a lot of their former knowledge.

That scorpion like/hovering structure could be a remnant from their great space faring past. Who knows.

This would mark the opportunity of swapped roles where the Engineers species are now more primitive like the humans 2k years ago. And David is the executor like the LV-223 Engineers.

They would in this case take their own medicine, a perfect irony of their weird/violent past.

2)They are just a creation of higher beings(Engineers?!)

In that case i assume the reaction will not be so friendly, if they even have some sort of emotions.

I think its open for debate...

Interesting ideas you both have... i think a lot depends on how Ridley and FOX have changed the Plot in regards to the Engineers and then if they ever will tell us..

I think they are going to have to Spoon Feed the Xenomorph and Derelict with a Curve-ball and then leave the Engineers as the new Mystery they wont cover.

@EWATYAMORPH

So in part yes what you put is what i was touching upon, it makes more sense... but we have to also remember it depends on how Ridley has changed the back ground.

Originally... The Engineers/Elders are a Advanced Race that had Evolved themselves so much they lost the ability to create life, thus they had to look at more innovated ways to do create.

With Lindeloffs draft then made, Ridley kind of changed this a bit to say the Sacrificial Scene is not the only way they can create life, but its just the way they choose to do it.. so this fits more with maybe the Engineers having Females still.

But then why would they need to create us?

Maybe for the same reasons we created David? Maybe not so much for Companionship, maybe indeed to show how Advanced they are as Creation in their image is a Legacy that makes them Gods...  Or maybe there is a Agenda for it...   Maybe the Annunaki Tale could loosely apply and that Mankind was created to replace the Purpose that the lower caste Igigi Gods was for.

Igigi similar to Angels.

We also have to wonder the Paradise Lost theme, Ridley referred to the Engineers as Fallen Angels... this means they had became Sentient and against their creators will and Rebelled. We see such Parallels with David 8.

So we have to look at Paradise as in Paradise Lost in TWO Ways.

1) Angels (Engineers) were the Gods creation and some of these Rebelled, and after these was kicked out of Heaven, the Gods (GOD) created Mankind to replace them, and the Angels were to serve and watch over Mankind but to see Mankind as Gods Perfect Creation... Paradise was a place that Mankind would be created on and where they would Dwell, and be watched over by some Angels to make sure they follow Gods Will, and also to prevent anyone not Authorized by God to enter Paradise.

Adam and Eve, however was tempted by Satan and had gone against Gods Will and was expelled from Paradise..

This does not mean that after this in context to the Franchise, the Gods then created another version of Mankind which is those beings on Paradise.

2) If we look at above, and after Mankind was expelled, or even if we take Mankind out of the Equation... then Paradise is where these Angels (Engineers) dwell, for some Purpose they are used.  Some of them Rebel and are expelled (end up the LV-223 Engineers).   Maybe they then steal the Tools of Creation and Sub-create Mankind, or they take the deemed Fallen Mankind with them.

These are Logically how i see things, and i think in part is what the Original Prometheus 2 idea was... only that the whole purpose for Creation... was around a Dark Dark Agenda.

@Gralen

Good points and indeed, they seem to be not very Advanced, yet the Scorpion Ship is and it appears to be the only Ship on that World with the Hanger there to allow for a Single Ship to Dock

This this logically has to fit with this place being  like Paradise, where these beings who may be Engineers dwell but they are used for some purpose by the Elders, such as the Sacrificial Scene

Again Prometheus showed us and its purpose was these beings are Ancient, Millions if not a Billion or so years old... and their Ships Navigation points to other Galaxies.. why unless they can travel there.

And so a Ancient Race, who can travel to Galaxies which closest one to ours is 2.5 Million Light years.. vastly further than the 39 Light years of LV-223/426.... surely then why is LV-223 the only outpost, and then Paradise where they came from?

Yet this place they are all confined to One City with One Docking Ship that hangs over their City and One Dock for Engineer Ships..

Makes no sense... unless the Engineers are Servents (Angels) to a higher cast (Gods) and the Gods do not come from this Place.

Again i will touch upon Biblical Paradise... this place is not where the Gods or Angels come from, its a place created for the creation of Mankind, before they was expelled and Guarded/Watched over by a Caste of Angels (Cherubim)

Its likely the LV-223 Engineers Rebelled and was banished from Paradise and set up shop on LV-223.

I'll leave this for thoughts .. 

Doha, Qatar 

Toronto, Canada 

Mexico City ...

Then we have the Planet 4 city ... 

Hey, how hard is it to get some guy to commit suicide on some random habitable planet, anyway? 

I believe Gods are sacrificial Engineers, Elders. They have different shape ships, they don't wear biomechanical suits, only cloaks, they create new life, etc.

Engineers with juggernaughts are watching Angels. One ship for single world (cheering crowd, one docking port on Paradise)

LV-223 Engineers are Dark Angels for dirty jobs like swiping failed worlds or something else. Maybe, Elders final decision was to give humanity second chance. They rebelled and were swiped out by their favorite weapon. David learned their ways. He bombarded Paradise because this civilization was weak and mortal in his eyes. BTW people in Paradise should follow god's law and beware of the knowledge tree (is this reason for lack of advanced technology?)