The results are in: A:C Box Office Gross - Japan

Im Durp I am talking about people who don't list any positives, thay simply hate it. And they can hate it as long they are honest and not part in a campaign.

In some sense I share daliens' frustration, but for different reasons.

In terms of criticism/reviews the existence of Rotten Tomatoes depresses me as it shows just how far American film criticism has sunk. Everyone assumes critics are here to tell us if a movie is good or bad, but the real reason they came around was to make audiences think. Just because they framed that objective with an opinion doesn't mean they didn't have a duty to open audience eyes to greater details. (Why was it made like it was? What does it mean? What's the context? If the reviewer thinks it's bad, why and what can be learned from it? If the reviewer thinks it's good, why and what can be learned from?)

I don't mind bad reviews of movies I like as long as the review is framed in a fresh way that makes me think about things I hadn't thought of before. But it's understandable most turn their nose up at critics telling them what's good/bad, because the majority of modern critics think that's the extent of their job as well--The quantifying on Rotten Tomatoes has made that an expectation. I love the reviews that don't give a final score, forcing Rotten Tomatoes to make up a score for them--Something they've received flack for. But to be fair, final scores don't really mean anything. To paraphrase Roger Ebert, "they shouldn't be looking at our scores, they should be reading our words." And their right. It's why I often don't rate or rank movies myself.

But part of it is also because some professional critics think that they're in direct competition with social media. 140 character reviews from your best friend can sometimes be seen as more trustworthy than an overview from a guy you don't know. American film criticism is in need of a great change, but with the death of people like Roger Ebert we're left with no one to lead the charge to change how we look at film. Thus, because professional critics are becoming more and more thoughtless we get more and more thoughtless user/fan reviews.

By all means, write a bad review of Alien: Covenant or Shin Godzilla, but give me more to chew on than a bash-fest. The same can be said for good reviews--I'm glad if you liked it, but why? And to what end?

Food for thought: Maybe sometimes movies aren't good or bad. Maybe they just need a little more attention. Not always, but more often than we think.

G. H. (Gman) Rotten Tomatoes was too forgiving with Alien Covenant. Critics for most part scrapped all type of criticism about the bad editing, bad dialogue, half baked cgi, etc. 

joylitt,
Okay, but whether or not RT was forgiving is not the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that RT is too busy quantifying reviews that say nothing different (good or bad) from one another and have issues justifying themselves beyond a score sheet.

Your post alone is guilty of the same stuff. Why is the editing bad? Why does it affect the film? What about the dialogue makes it bad? Is it possible it was intended to be written a specific way? And if so why? Does the weak CG ruin the film, etc. Or better yet, instead of listing the pros and cons (which way too many reviews do) what about the central themes either ruined or made the movie? What bigger concepts does the movie walk away with?

Anyone can list good or bad attributes about a film--The audience doesn't need to be told what good or bad CG  or acting is. Most can tell--So diving in to those topics usually makes for mundane reads. I don't blame many reviewers sidestepping those issues to talk about something else. What audiences usually don't understand is why a film is the way it is--That makes for a more interesting read.

G. H. (Gman) Well I was not making a review but the bad editing negative effect on the movie is obvious: that third act is totally anti climatic. And the problems start pretty early in the film, most precisely with the sleep pod accident; editing is off there too. The bad dialogue is all over the place, ranging from flat to pretentious to cringe worthy. Regarding the reviews, probably you just read the excerpts posted by Rotten Tomatoes, but you can choose to hit the "full review" link. Some critics do a very good job actually, and they conduct in depth analyses of the film. I don't think you know why a film is the way it is. It Took Ridley Scott 5 years to admit that maybe he made a mistake with Prometheus. Maybe in another 5 years he will admit that making David the center of the story was a mistake or that the damn flute scene was a mistake. Anything is possible.

"editing is off there too."

But how? Saying it's "off" doesn't tell me anything.

"Regarding the reviews, probably you just read the excerpts posted by Rotten Tomatoes"

That's exactly one of the issues though. If most people just read the essential fast-food version of a review, then film criticism takes a hit. It's no longer about in-depth analysis. It's about getting a strong zinger in with a score next to it.

You're right some critics do a very good job of going in depth with a film. But they are few and far between, because that's no longer the objective for many. Most publications have forced a low word count on film critics and mandated dry, sterile reviews that mimic others. (Some are even bought off by studios. It's one of the reasons I stopped writing for certain film magazines and websites.) Even though you may not "know" why a film is the way it is, that shouldn't stop more thought provoking exploration in to it. Especially if it's a film or franchise you're passionate about.

The World of KJ has finally translated the weekend actuals from Kogyotsushin. While the actuals show it made more money, I was sadly way, way off in terms of attendance.

Alien: Covenant opened to #2 with $3.1M. It fell to Dunkirk, which is in its second weekend. Alien: Covenant had an attendance of 138,297 across 694 screens. That places it under Wonder Woman, Ghost in a Shell and Guardians of the Galaxy 2, but above Logan's opening.

Alien: Covenant is expected to finish its Japanese run with about $10M. That would estimate and attendance around 440,000. (Give or take, depending on the discount days.) To put that in perspective, anything lower than an attendance of 2-2.5 million is usually considered a flop.

joylitt can you detail on what do you mean by this?

The bad dialogue is all over the place, ranging from flat to pretentious to cringe worthy.

I think Covenant had by far the best dialogue of all the Alien movies.

Prometheus was a far lesser movie as dialogue, characters, but it had the Engineers and great visuals, had a happy ending, it was in many way an easier film to digest for the larger audience.

Covenant was very dark, almost unbearable sometimes and the ending left no door open for hope, David in control of so many helpless good souls, Daniels going into cryosleep with the thought that David is going to do to her what he did to Shaw... Can you feel that desperation? 

In my opinion Covenant is a better movie than Prometheus.

G. H. (Gman)

I think most people read the fast-food version of a review. And by writing a bad review many don't bother to detail, it's enough to say "waste off time and money", "boring", "bad", etc. And with so many of these reviews in the context of a cancelled project by Blomkamp I suspect somebody is trying to influence the decision making at Fox. There are also trolls, of course, as some really enjoy trolling.

I might be wrong, I am aware of that, but in these times of fake news / reviews it is healthier to be a little paranoid.

I am open to negative reviews and debates, but not with trolls or hit-and-runs.

I did not do much research but I am not sure if any other film recently has received so many hateful reviews (by hateful I mean expressing utter negativity, intense dislike of everything the movie is, something they don't feel the need to explain as it comes more from the guts, than from the brain).

I repeat, I never said it's the perfect movie but it's a movie I love. 

I also believe that if it did not do it better financially speaking it's because the hateful reviews did their job very well. Many viewers unfortunately take into account the rating of the movie before buying the tickets.

All this marketing around Alien Covenant really looks like an experimental study for me. I am very curious of what's next.

G. H. (Gman) Capt. Branson's death scene is pretty odd. It's like the scene was dubbed and is out of sync (Daniels crying). It feels rushed, confusing and is practically a repetition of Charlie's death in Prometheus.

daliens I will clarify just because you asked. I expressed my thoughts before, and I also said I came to terms with what Alien Covenant is. Regarding the dialogue, I feel the only part of the script the writers put some effort is on the David/Walter interaction. And I disagree this is a better script than that of Prometheus. I have read both scripts and I can assure you Lindeloff's work is much more engaging and it has much more detail and descriptions that allow you to visualize the action much better. Logan's scenes are very nondescript and that can be a huge burden for the production, which has to add notes and to improvise. Many characters are not even in the script, and that is why they barely have a line. There are characters like the guy killed on the wheat field that no one even talk about. I don't think there is any campaign in favor of Blomkamp. His only really good movie is District 9 and Chappie is a disaster.

joylitt thanks for clarifications. Yes, the David/Walter interaction has some memorable lines. I still didn't get why was Vickers in Prometheus. So if in Covenant a guy from the security team is there just for a kill scene is not that bad. At least he exits fast from the arena, unlike Vickers who had as well a ridiculous death in my opinion. And we are not sure wether she was an android or not. But even without characters to care for, I like Prometheus. 

I am glad you came to terms with Covenant, I knew you will.

Regarding the campaign in favor of Blomkamp, as long as there are polls on the internet, on influential sites, which movie to be next, Alien 5 or Alien Awakening I bet the blomkamps don't stop with voting only and they have a campaign that aims to reduce the earnings for Alien Covenant. I don't mean that Covenant doesn't do better because of that but it is a factor that negatively affected the box office. I know people who did not see Covenant because they read the hateful reviews.

It is so easy to inflame the trolls and make them campaign against something these days...

However I know you are not a troll and you care for the future of the franchise and your negative comments only woke up the Covenant fans to stand against the wave of hate. At least on this forum.

Thank you.

Alien 5 or Alien Awakening I bet the blomkamps don't stop with voting only and they have a campaign that aims to reduce the earnings for Alien Covenant. I don't mean that Covenant doesn't do better because of that but it is a factor that negatively affected the box office.

That doesn't make sense and probably isn't the case at all. If there is this huge anti Ripley pro Blompkamp group I've never seen them, only seen them referenced by A:C fans who act like this huge margin of people actively want to sabotage the movie because it wasn't what they wanted. Sorry to break it to you but A:C isn't in any more adverse waters than any movie that is made from existing material or is part of a franchise. Other things have gotten over this hurdle to do well not just rating wise but financially and the fact is A:C didn't at least not to the extent it was expected. There isn't some huge hatewave against this movie and only this movie and a group of people pulling strings so it doesn't do well. Even if you didn't like reviews or the way people worded it that's still how those people felt about that movie, and if you don't like the way those reviews are written I'd blame it on what people want to read and are willing to look at over the reviews themselves. They exist because they're someone's opinion and someone will read it, just as they will for the reviews you happen to agree with.

Point being and the main point, A:C had no more adverse fan reaction and marketing than any franchise movie. At this point, start looking at what the film did wrong rather than waving it away as sabotage and and this giant conspiracy that fox mishandled the timing, the marketing, the release, interfered too much, fans were mad, people just hate, ect.  

Lawrence of Arabia: I don't agree that Prometheus was David's story. Yes he had an important role but there were also a lot of focus on Shaw, Weyland and so on. In no way was he as important in Prometheus compared to Covenant.

I don't think that it is too late to change focus to the human characters even though he has a God complex.

I don't  care about Lawrence of Arabia.

Getting back on topic.

Alien: Covenant is expected to fall to #5 in Japan this weekend. It estimated to pull in around $875K for the weekend which would bring it to a total of $5.8M. Early estimates for the weekend expected on Sunday.

 Thoughts_Dreams

I think you misunderstand what these prequels are about. You don't have to agree but it's still a fact. Prometheus was David's film with Shaw as a co-lead like Daniels is with Covenant.

You don't have to care for Lawrence of Arabia but that film clearly inspires a lot in this new saga to which I'm trying to explain.

G. H. (Gman)

Thank you for the updates and insightful comments. Glad Covenant is doing well in good ol' Nippon. :)

daliens

I think Covenant had by far the best dialogue of all the Alien movies.

I agree, the film is so quotable and the writing is intelligent.

Covenant was very dark, almost unbearable sometimes and the ending left no door open for hope, David in control of so many helpless good souls, Daniels going into cryosleep with the thought that David is going to do to her what he did to Shaw... Can you feel that desperation? 

A big part of what I love about Covenant so much is how dark it is, the film is very anti-human and nihilistic.

'I don't agree that Prometheus was David's story.' - Ridley Scott does not agree with this statement.

'I don't care about Lawrence of Arabia.' - That's a strange opinion, considering that 'Lawrence of Arabia' - the character and the original movie - is an important background element of Prometheus.

Ati

"Ridley Scott does not agree with this statement." - where did he state this? I would be interested in his exact words.

Lawrence of Arabia - 'Prometheus was David's film with Shaw as a co-lead like Daniels is with Covenant.'

That's true and it should be seen!

But it's OK if there are people who don't agree with that.

red0guy@gmail.com - If the exact words by him are so important for you, watch his AC interviews and you'll find them. There are more with this info, but I remember a video in which he is together with Waterston. Go ahead.

Ati

Well thanks for the vague info, it was really helpful.

You're welcome. Youtube is full of Scott interviews on AC, it won't be a big problem to find his exact words.

But it’s actually actor Michael Fassbenderplaying a pair of A.I. units—the platinum blond David and the mousier brunette Walter—who is the new “Ripley” of this series. “It’s the A.I. that’s the real connective tissue of this franchise,” Waterston observes. “People keep saying I’m the Ripley. I’m not. It’s Fassbender.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/03/alien-covenant-ridley-scott

Not exactly in Scott's words but this pretty much sums it up. Covenant was meant to shed Prometheus in a new light with this revelation.

Lawrence of Arabia - Thanks.

G. H. (Gman)

Any news from the second weekend in Japan. BoxOfficeMojo recently uploaded the incomes on the global page. With simple arithmetic we can infer that until now Covenant made 5.8 mil. But I don't if this value includes the last weekend.

red0guy@gmail.com,
The estimates for the second weekend were a little high. Alien: Covenant dropped to #5 as predicted, but it made $815,000 for the weekend. The Japanese total after Sunday is $5.1M.

Lawrence of Arabia:

“I think you misunderstand what these prequels are about. You don't have to agree but it's still a fact. Prometheus was David's film with Shaw as a co-lead like Daniels is with Covenant.”

That is crap if so and if so they got to change direction. Human characters are more important to me than AI. Nevertheless I feel that David got more attention in AC compared to Prometheus which was for the worse.

Third weekend forecast for Alien: Covenant:

The movie is showing dwindling legs and is expected to drop to #7 with an estimated $480,000 for the weekend. (Over half of last weekend's take.) That would bring the movie's total to $6.4M. Hitting $10M now may be a bit too optimistic.

Actuals will be available next week.

Whatever. I enjoyed the movie. I bought a lot of merch and sent a couple copies to friends. If people want to crunch numbers that is fine and understandable. I await the next one after BR 2049.

dk

Well, if your friends would have not that merch on their own, maybe that shows franchise fatigue for Fox. As for BR2049, I will skip it on it's first weekend because of Covenant and it's story/writing. I'm sure it will be beautiful but I doubt that the story will be more than a slave revolt in the end (and of course Deckard dying).

Actuals for Alien: Covenant's third week are in.

It fell to #8 instead of #7, but its predicted forecast was actually pretty spot on. Although it only made $420,000+ for the weekend, some weekday adjustments must have come in as it now sits at the predicted $6.4M. Attendance for the film (tickets sold) is at an estimated 520,000.

I'd say it has about another week in the top 10, but making it to the 1 Billion yen milestone will take a miracle. The film will likely finish sub-$10M.

red0guy@gmail.com I actually bought the copies for friends who couldn't swing the purchases at the time but wanted it- so it's not franchise fatigue in these cases. Either way, it translates to blu ray sales for FOX.

truth of the matter is it doesn't really matter about the numbers as the numbers don't really reflect on whether the film is good or not. its more interesting info and an indicator on if there will be another or not. the numbers are also not a good indication of actual footfall as im sure many people, especially on this site, have been multiple times to see it. so many factors can be taken into account. for example, the numbers from Japan can be seen as not to great but when u take the violent weather and release date after so many poor reviews into account, it could be deemed as holding its own. also the first weekend of release is when the advertising comes into play. the 6 month lead up to AC was excellent. fox really did a good job in the material it released and the way they released it which got so many people excited for the film, including myself. don't think iv been as excited to see a film in many years and part of the credit for that, whether people want to admit it or not, has to go to Prometheus for the level of intrigue the film laid down for AC to follow. id say dvd/blu ray sales will be a better indication of how well received the movie was as most sales will be from people who have already seen it and enjoyed it plus, unlike multiple visits to the theatres, people will only be inclined to purchase 1 copy so a more accurate piece of data will be displayed. what matters most is... did you like the film??

Japan Weekend #4 forecast:

Like I said in my last post, this will likely be the final week Alien: Covenant is in the top 10. It's expected to fall from #8 to #10 with an estimated $250,000 for the weekend. That should bring it to about $7M total after Sunday.

After that, the movie may be impossible to track unless it cracks 1 Billion yen. (If it hits $7 Million it'll be at around 775 Million Yen. It needs to make $9 Million+ to hit the Billion Yen milestone.)

After a movie drops out of the top 10 it's only given spotlight if it crosses 1 Billion yen at minimum. Not hitting that mark is fairly embarrassing. We'll see if it has enough gas in the tank to get there.

Japan weekend #4 actuals:

The good news is that Alien: Covenant managed to stay in the top 10 for one more week. The bad news is the legs are quite poor and it will not hit the 1 Billion Yen mark--Meaning it will be very difficult to track from here on out. Thus this may be the final update for awhile.

Sitting at #10 in week four, the movie pulled only $236,000 for the weekend. Its overall total sits at $7M. The overall consensus from Japanese box office analysts has been "disappointing". Whereas it did poorly in the US, it has outright flopped in Japan with a current, estimated audience attendance of 570,000. For comparison, Prometheus ended with an audience attendance of 1.24 million.

Prometheus was released in June worldwide, in August in Japan, while the dvd was released in October.

Alien:Covenant was released in May worldwide,  in September in Japan, one month after the dvdrelease in August.

For the movie to make 7$M in these circumstances is not a flop I would say. I don't know how open is the Japanese market to overseas purchase, I mean if they can buy the dvd/bluray from Amazon or other sites upon its release.

daliens

Keep in mind that Japan is a different region than the US for Dvds (1 opposed to 2, same as Europe), but the same for Blu-rays, they have no Japanese subtitles on the North-American release (but the Dvd released here in Romania on the 13th of September had them) and possibly must pay an import tax. So this solution seems a bit complicated.

We can not blame piracy because it is non-existent in Japan...

red0guy@gmail.com

What about the digital release?

daliens

I don't know... sincerely. I myself never brought a movie as a digital download.

red0guy@gmail.com is correct on all fronts. DVDs are locked out and North American Blu-rays do not include Japanese subtitles, so that's not very helpful to consumers. The crackdown on piracy is much, much harder in Japan than it is in other countries, so it can't be blamed on that either.

The fact is audiences just didn't take to it. Longevity is more important than opening weekends in Japan, and word-of-mouth just wasn't very good. Keep in mind I've yet to see the movie, so I have no horse in this race and am not bias either way. I'm simply reporting translations of how analysts and audiences in Japan view the movie and the fact is it's a flop.

The comparison to Prometheus's 1.24 million attendance also needs to be put in context. Prometheus's attendance number is better than Covenant's and "okay" for Hollywood movies in Japan, but overall "poor" for movies released in the country. It did not reach a blockbuster status. To do considerably well is to hit 3.0 million in attendance. Maybe 2.5 million, but that's being generous. The movies that are usually the top selling of the year have an attendance of 4-5 million. And although only a few movies hit 7+ million in attendance every year, it needs to be understood that such numbers are still anomalous. In short:

Japanese attendance number status:

5 million+ - Top 100 Best Selling Movies in Japanese Box Office History
4 million - The Most Successful Movies of the Year
3 million - Blockbuster Status
2 million - Okay
1 million - Poor
Under-1 million - Flop