BigDave

I read Alien Covenant: Origins some time ago, and after having browsed through it again, there are no dates at all in the novelization. However, there is one interesting thing connected to date: Weyland-Yutani knows that Sir Peter Weyland is dead (and The Covenant leaves after this). This must mean that they have received Shaw’s message which was sent somewhere between December 25 - January 1? This, in turn, probably means that The Covenant left Earth orbit sometime in January at the earliest and therefore has travelled for only about 11 months until reaching Planet 4. This would mean that Planet 4 cannot be too far away from Earth and that The Covenant must be pretty fast?

chli

Not necessarily, however. Maybe only a very small Cabal knew that Weyland fake his death, and he was on the Prometheus. 

But I have not read that novel so there might things that I don't know about, and your interpretation is spot on.

I am going to have to try and get my hands on the Novel.

Nice or you to confirm there are no Dates given, which puzzles me now to where the "1 January 2104: The Covenant launches from Earth orbit" came from but a number of other information from that source does not add up either.

For example...

• 5 December 2104: The covenant receives a signal from Planet 4
• 25-26 December 2104: Happenings on Planet 4

Now that cant be so, because we see in Alien Covenant when they detect the Signal after the Neutrino Burst Accident, they faced TWO options... continue on a 7 year 4 Month voyage to Origae-6, while the Crew are reluctant to go into Cryo-sleep.... or check out the source of the Signal which would be a 7 week Detour..

There is only 4 Weeks 3 Days in December ;)

Looking at the Covenant from what i gather the Events occur from December 4th/5th in regards to the movie, so the Signal would have had to been detected about 16-17th October.

Again i will have to look at the source material that we have as far as Viral Videos for information, or unseal my DVD for the extras.

We have seen a Time-Line for the Merger as in the year 2099 this is from the Yutani Report, and i guess SM can clear up where this date came from.... i.e FOX etc, or if SM suggested it and FOX went along with it?

My Prometheus 2 i was working on, had the Merger happen 25 years prior to ALIEN.  But this is just Fan work, where i had it happen under 3 years after the events of Prometheus.

So its really not sure when the Company Merged, we know there is a Weyland Yutani Company in the year 2104 and so 10 years after Prometheus and i guess that means the year 2099 fits right in the middle of both movies, so i cant see any objections against the 2099 date...

If the Origins Novel has no dates, then we have to see if any are given in any Art of the Film books or extras... as far as the Covenants Departure Date etc.

Weyland-Yutani knows that Sir Peter Weyland is dead

Confirmation of this is interesting, but it could have some explanations, we have to assume that the Company had more than Vickers and Weyland as far as Board Members, and its strange to send your only TWO Heads of Board with no Contingency plans.    So we could speculate that someone at the company or indeed any Medical Personnel who had interacted with Weyland in his last few years, MAY have knowledge that Peter Weyland was a dying pan who has only a short time left alive.

I think its logical a combination of the Mission being missing in action, with a certain amount of time with no reply and being 2 years away from Earth, with anyone who knows Peter Weyland has not many years left in him....  would be able to conclude Weyland would likely be Dead and thus classed as Deceased.

If this is not the case...  and thus the information regarding Weylands Death is confirmed by the Prometheus itself, be that the detection of Dr Shaws SOS, or/and a investigative mission.

Then this would indeed lead to us to suspect those behind the Merger would indeed be aware of the Prometheus mission and likely what it had encountered.

It depends which of these outcomes is what happened as to give us a date where the Merger had not taken place...  The Questions come down to.

* How long would that SOS Signal by Dr Shaw Reach our Solar System or some distant Outpost/Ship that can relay the message to the Company.

* How long would the company wait before sending out either a mission to LV-223, or at least try some communications.   Then its a Question of how fast does Communications work, and how fast could a investigative mission take?   The same 2 years as Prometheus?

I think we can safely assume the Weyland-Yutani Merger would not have happened at least 4-5 years after the Prometheus Mission had set off....

Dr Shaws SOS message was recorded at very least on January 1st 2094

I realized i made a error in my other post regarding the Covenant and how far into the Mission it was, i was basing it off a 8 year mission, but in reality with NO given Dates of Departure or any information to how long the mission was, apart from that at the point of the Neutrino Burst it was 7 years 4 months away from Origae-6

This does not give us how long the mission had gone for though, when assuming a 8 year journey then it would have reached 10% of its journey but this is a oversight by myself, because with 7 Re-Charges left, this does not add up because if the Covenant was 10% into its journey then it needed 9 Re-Charges...

The remaining Journey Time meant the Covenant would arrive on Origae-6 around April 2112...  so a 8 year Journey would mean a Departure of April 2104 which if we assume the Re-Charge was its first then this would have taken place after 8 Months (assume Dec 5th Neutrino Blast) or just over 6 Months if we assume the events of arriving at Planet 4 by the Covenant was December 5th.

Which would mean 11-14 Re-Charge Cycles within the next 7 years 4 months.....  Which Logically means the Actual Recharge Cycles must be 11-12 Months  (ASSUME The Re-Charge was December 4th/5th).

I would say that a Re-Charge of 11-12 Months is a good Estimate and thus it is likely the Covenant Departed in December 2103 or January 2104

so that means about a 99-100 Month Journey Total, thus the Covenant Traveled about 12% of its journey before Re-Charging.

"This would mean that Planet 4 cannot be too far away from Earth and that The Covenant must be pretty fast?"

This is the Big Question with NO given Distances, we can only have wild Guess work...  If the Covenant is as fast as the Prometheus then Planet 4 would be about the 18-21 Light Years away Ball Park.

if the Covenant is as fast as the Refitted Nostromo than Planet 4 would have to be around the 42-50 Light Years away Ball Park.

We can assume the Covenant is not as fast as the Sulaco, but we really dont know how fast the Covenant is, i would assume at least as fast as the Prometheus, and i doubt twice as fast as a refitted Nostromo.  Which means a 20-100 Light Year Estimate? 

Regardless i think we can safely ASSUME Journey to Planet 4 is just a matter of within a Year from Earth at the time of ALIEN, and much much less by the time we get to ALIENS 

So that does raise a Good Question about the likelihood of other Human/Earth Missions to Planet 4 after the events of Alien Covenant.

If we look at the Juggernaught ships, i think we can safely assume they can travel much faster than Earth ships, but we just dont know how fast they actually travel.   The Comics appear to suggest they can travel certain large distances within a instant..

But i am always looking to look at Movie related Evidence or connected Viral Marketing/DVD extras rather than Comics.

While we do-not know how fast the Engineer Ships are simply because we have NO Data to go by, all we can go by indeed is that David had been on Planet 4 for 10 years, that could mean he arrived about December 2094, but again its how do we read into ABOUT 10 YEARS this interpretation depends person to person, for me i would say regarding years that i would be looking at saying something either took 2 years, 3 years or 2.5 years, so if something took 1 year 5 months i would say that its about a year and half, if it was 1 year 10 months i would say about 2 years and if it was 1 year 3 months i would say about a year, or just over a year.

so in that context, and this is just how i look at how i define time, i usually split it up into Quarters and so  12-15 Months i would class as a about a year or just over a year,  16-20 months i would class as either about a year and half or just over/just under 1.5 years and 21-24 months i would class as about 2 years or nearly 2 years etc.

So by that then David being on Planet 4 for about 10 years would mean he has likely been there since December 2094 give or take a few months so we can safely assume (unless he was lying) that David arrived at Planet 4 likely around December 2094, but certainly within the 1st October 2094 to 28th February 2095 Ball Park.

But as we dont know how far Planet 4 is we cant estimate any kind of Speeds, all we really know is that David and Dr Shaw had definitely left LV-223 at very least January 2094 but due to the Hair Growth with Dr Shaw, i would Safely Assume a Period of Months had past.

I think the best estimate looking at the clues for me would be that David Arrives at Planet 4  between October 2094 to February 2095, but lets just go with DECEMBER then looking at Dr Shaw's Hair by the time she entered Cryo-Sleep i think it would appear this had to be again October-December 2094 and so i think the Juggernaught could travel to Planet 4 within a matter of weeks, certainly no longer than 6-8 weeks.

When we look at the JUGGERNAUTS STAR CHARTS we see they have many Galaxies in their System, we would have to ask why if they CAN-NOT Travel to these places...  The Nearest Galaxy to our own is 2.5 MILLION Light years, thats Vastly further than to LV-223, so the Prometheus would take 125'000 years to get to our Nearest Neighboring Galaxy.

We have to Assume the Engineer Ships can Travel beyond even that Galaxy because it had Many in their Navigation Systems...  but we still cant gauge the Speeds off this....  if they could reach other Galaxies within years, then reaching places like Planet 4 would take Minutes.

This is where the CRYO-PODS come in, if the Engineer Ships can Travel to Earth/Planet 4 etc within weeks, then we would have to wonder why the need for Cryo-Pods?   I would assume they are used for Longer Term Travel to distant parts of the Galaxy.

But then looking at the Basics of a Juggernaught, its not built for living on and so we can assume anything more than short journeys... so like hours or days maximum then you would indeed have Cryo-sleep Pods....

so we still cant really get any information on Juggernaught Speeds, i only assume they could get from LV-223 to Planet 4 in relatively short time, which begs the Questions then... why did not ships return within Thousands of Years?

I think determining the Speeds of the Engineers Ships helps us to paint a picture of future events, because we have to look at the Covenant taking 88 Months (give or take 7 weeks) from Planet 4 to Origae-6,  and if a Juggernaught could get to Origae-6 from Planet 4, in Months or less, or even just few years...  then this would mean any returning Engineer Ship to Planet 4 (provided they can detect the Covenant) would surely intercept it way before it arrived at Origae-6

so indeed its highly likely that David would not only reach Origae-6 but also that some Colony would be set up, prior to the Engineers returning to Planet 4....    In my idea/plans for Alien: Ascension (Covenants sequel)  i indeed have David arrive at Origae-6 in April 2112....  i have the Engineers returning to Planet 4 10 years after David departed. so in the year 2114.

The dates we have from the Prometheus expedition are 21 December 2093 (David walking about on the ship). 25 - 26 December (everything happens). 1 January 2094, Shaw drives away from the facility they have been exploring (in the buggy, and presumably with David still in two parts?) towards a juggernaut in the adjacent facility. Shaw sends the message and they leave 1 January in the juggernaut. As they leave, the deacon is born, giving a gestation time of about 6 days (26-1)!!! They have had plenty of time scavenging things, but the gestation time seems to be too long, but they couldn’t have had the deacon lurking about either . . .

Anyway, in Alien Covenant: Origins we learn that the company called Weyland Corporation has merged into Weyland-Yutani Corporation before The Covenant sets off. They also know that Sir Peter Weyland is dead, and there is a terrorist group not wanting the Covenant mission to come about. After lots of trouble, The Covenant finally sets off somewhere between 2094 - 2104. According to FANDOM, W-Y merged 2099 which would mean that The Covenant set off probably somewhere between 2099 and 2103 (it would probably take at least 1 year to get to Planet 4)?

One more thing, according to the novelization, Ricks says it would take "a couple of weeks" to get from where The Covenant had the accident to Planet 4.

"According to FANDOM, W-Y merged 2099"

According to Fox.  Ref. Weyland-Yutani Report.

I would certainly say its a Logical/Plausible Merger Date that sites right down the middle of the events of Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

I have not read the Yutani Report, a main reason being and no disrespect to everyone involved, but i was kind of waiting until the Prequel Saga was complete, then hoping that we get a Updated Report,  the main reason for this is i am just one of those who hold out for something complete, so i tend to pick DVD's up if they are cheap, rather than buy each new movie that i suspect is part of a series... for example...  i have no interest in getting The Last Jedi, but once we have the SW EP7-9 Box-set i would get that.

So i would be waiting until the Prequels are done, because of changes and added information, which it seems FOX can have a habit of changing things as they progress... which could effect any Canon a Yutani Report could have (not to any fault of those who produced it).  I am also someone who is reluctant to accept certain Games/Comics as Canon... the same with Novels apart from a few that are based on the Movie... i can totally respect the other Books as Alternative Fiction to the Franchise but i am not one who really accepts many as Canon... For Example Alien: Out of the Shadows

Also Alien Colonial Marines, but i also think even as Canon as far as the movies the Franchise is a bit of incoherent, inconsistent mess at times, due to not sticking to any laid down LAW or Logic and Constantly Evolving Plot.

Hopefully the so called ALIEN Bible has a Foundation that the Future Franchise movies and games can follow and not contradict each other.

I am not sure where the 2099 Merger came from (Comic, Book, Game) but i think its pretty logical, and it certainly fits well within the movie Franchise.

Regarding when this means the Covenant mission was due to leave, i cant be sure because i have not Read the Origins Novel.

I am not convinced the Mission happened shortly after the Merger, we do know that THEY (Daniels and Branson) had been planning this mission for 10 years, so Origae-6 had been surveyed prior to any Merger.

The only logical dates i can come up with, would be to consider the 7 more Charge Cycles over the remaining 88 Month Journey, which means if the Neutrino Burst Accident? occurred during its first charge then this means indeed a December 2103 to January 2104 date seems a good Estimate.

I will have to look at the individual Messages Home Virals and see if they have any clues that we can Gauge a potential Covenant Departure Date from.

@chli

I will add that a lot of confusion does seem to come from how the movies are Edited and Cut, which present ourselves with clues which could lead us down the wrong path, and even if they lead us to the right kind of path at the time.... future movies can totally ignore/mess with clues set prior.

But indeed looking at clues as logical as we can, then it points us towards things like the Deacon having a 5 day + Gestation.  The Crossing Viral and indeed parts of Alien Covenant logically leave us to assume supplies and equipment had be salvaged from the Prometheus Wreckage, or the Lifeboat...

somethings still would not add up or leave us to Question them, and a lot of times these are purely OVERSIGHTS when filming the movies.  A Prime Example would be the Photo of Holloway and Dr Shaw that Daniels finds...

Where we can only try and come up with a Logical Explanation... and in this case, there really is very little... apart from the PURE Coincidence of finding it in the Prometheus Wreckage... otherwise HOW would this get to the Life-Boat?    But this is when we look at David in Alien Covenant and could then ponder if David had taken it at some point  prior to the 3rd act in Prometheus, and it ended up in the Lifeboat via David prior to Dr Shaw and the Crew going to awaken the Engineers.... which kind of could allow us to ponder that David took it because he was at this very early stage INFATUATED with Dr Shaw.

So its examples like that, where we can only try and find rational explanations, when we have no hard facts...  which is also why i am drawn to the Hair Length indicating that Dr Shaw had spent 10-12 months from the end of Prometheus until David tucked her away in The Crossing.  However there is never any confirmed time-frame of such events... and it could be another Ridley Scott/FOX Oversight?

"I am not sure where the 2099 Merger came from (Comic, Book, Game) but i think its pretty logical, and it certainly fits well within the movie Franchise."

The 2099 date was arrived at when the Weyland-Yutani Report was being developed.

Thanks for clearing that up SM...  pretty much seems very logical date to take,  i hope they will reference this date in future movies or at least hope they dont release contradicting dates that make that date no longer applicable.

Certainly is a good lot of effort into the report....  I certainly hope when they have finished the Prequels, that maybe you and everyone connected with that Report get to make a updated one with all the New Stuff that the Prequels have shown.

It really would be awesome to have a detailed look at the Schematics for the Ships, including Technical Data, using those already available and also getting someone to make Schematics for ships not covered.

In regards to ships, a blueprint book is in the works. As far I know it will include ships from Covenant.

I just ordered:

Alien The Weyland Yutani Report and Alien the Archive 2 Books Collection Set - The Ultimate Guide to the Classic Movies Hardcover – 2017

by S.D. Perry (Author),‎ Titan Books (Author)

It'll be interesting! :)

"Sadly AC had Characters that people just did not seem to be interested in talking about, only really David and Walter stick out...."

To me that is because the writers and Scott (since he throws out ideas about the story and hence tries to affect the end result) only seemed to give a crap also about the androids but Oram was alright also. Unfortunately we did not get to know much about Daniels even though she had a better personality than Shaw. Once again they failed with the characters so they learned nothing from Prometheus about that it seems to me. No one of the characters had any traits that made them stand out compared to each-other.

Have to totally agree with the lack of Character build up, we just never seemed to see much about Daniels, you kind of felt that Tennessee was more of a lead Character, and that it was a movie more so about David/Walter and Oram.

Looking at the 2099 Merger date, this is a very plausible date that fits nicely with the Chronological Time Frame of events... i feel that a Merger date a few years prior would maybe not have worked and one that is a few years latter not fitted...  so 2099 fits slap bang in the middle.

Daniels mentions they had been planning the mission to Oriage-6 for over 10 years, which means herself and others had been planning this Mission since the time of the disappearance of Prometheus. (the Covenants Crew etc are not aware of this though).

But it shows us that a long time had gone into this mission, we DO-NOT know who was funding the Mission, but maybe we can assume Weyland Industries would have had a key role in the planning.

So at some point with the CEO's of Weyland Industries away on the Prometheus, we have to ask WHO is in charge and gives the orders etc....     Was the Covenant Mission only in its early stages as far as plans, and so no where near as far as building the ships etc... i think this is likely.

So with Weyland and Vickers missing in action, would any such investments be on hold?  would those working at the Company consider the Preparations that Daniels and her team had been making, simply not worth the investment in light of the Companies Situation as far as LOSS of Contact with Prometheus?

I think what ever events lead to the Merger, we can see that after the Merger, the Merged Weyland-Yutani company indeed had seen the potential in the ideas regarding a attempt to Colonize a Discovered Earth like World Oriage-6 and thus continued the advancement and preparations into this mission and its eventual Launch.

I just find it interesting that Daniels and her Partner would have at least been researching into Origae-6 as a potential 2nd Home for Mankind, and this process began 5 or so years prior to the Merger, and then actually had been funded and launched nearly 4-5 years latter.

Anyone has The book of Alien by Paul Scanlon? How is it?

chli

Did you get your books, are you happy with them?