Xenomorph Origin

Its interesting because we dont know how much of this ADF had added, but they surely did have access to earlier drafts when working on his Novel, its not like a case of they Finish Shooting and let ADF see the movie and have the Final Shooting Draft and then go.... Write this into a Novel.

so its interesting to see where they get this idea from?  Is it something they ASSUMED the movie was about, or were there actual clues in the Draft he used to suggest that David Re-Created the Xenomorph?   When they was working on the Novel, they surely had to go back and forth between someone at FOX and someone at FOX would have to have read the Novel before giving it the GREEN LIGHT.

Only Alan Dean Foster would know for sure, and i am sure he has done a few interviews... will have to dig them up.

The  Early Synopsis to AC is interesting too and RS comments...

Because it touched upon  "They're going to go to the planet where the engineers came from, and come across the evolving creature that they had made"

This was RS comment.   He also mentioned about another group of explorers are incoming

Here is another such comment... and the Early Synopsis read similar to the Evolving Creature that they had made...

"

We’ll have them all. Egg, face-hugger, chest-burster, then the big boy.

They’re going to go to the planet where the engineers came from, and come across the evolving creature that they had made. Why did they make it? Why would they make such a terrifying beast? It felt bio-mechanoid, it felt like a weapon. And so the movie will explain that, and reintroduce the alien back into it"

But it really depends how you read into Ridley Scotts comments as they are always a bit ambiguous.... 

"They’re going to go to the planet"  Is this the Covenant Crew? or David and Shaw?

"and come across the evolving creature that they had made" this does not fit with the Covenant Crew unless we look at the context being the THEY as in Engineers, but then if the first part was about David/Shaw then the THEY here can apply to them.. which indeed we see David did Create it, and Shaw played the Final Pieces of the Puzzle.

So it could be taken as Engineers or David/Shaw that created the Xenomorph...

I guess the biggest answer would have to come from this from the ADF Novel.  "In case you were wondering, I had nothing to do with it. It lies as I found it, a supreme example of the Engineers' skill. And also, their hubris, I suppose"

Its a case of if this or something similar was ever part of any Harper/Logan Draft.  If it was then it would show that indeed David was intended to Re-Create/Evolve something the Engineers had created,  and then at some latter stage RS/FOX decided to have David create it.

Which RS had said they at some point changed it to David because RS felt this was more interesting.   The SOURCE i had from February 2015 who gave clues to what Prometheus 2 was about, they had said that DAVID does RE-CREATE it and Dr Shaw plays a Small but Pivotal Role.

If this Source was correct, then prior to Logan/Harper it appears David would be creating something similar but at that time was NOT considered to be the Xenomorph Creator and so as of 2014 the idea of the Derelict being Ancient was still the case.

But the thing with the synopsis and RS comments, are that the Evolving Creature could be something David Created from the Black Goo that THEY (Engineers) created, due to how ambiguous that comment/synopsis is.

Without ANY clues in the film it will be tough to explain that David re-created the xenomorph in the next movie. The story-line is so f-ed. 

Could save the series. 

I did remember he had a interview somewhere, thanks for the Heads Up SM.

I think we have to Question where this line came from as far as inspiration, it would appear odd that ADF plucked it from No-where... so there must have NOT been any clues/plots in the Drafts he had to work off that gave a DEFINITE Nod that the Engineers did not create it, and that David did....

For FOX to also let it stay, we have to wonder what progress had been made with the Novel, at the time this line was allowed and what progress the movie was in and what at this time the plans for that scene were (David shows Oram his Workshop and then the Eggs).

It could be a clever PLOY by FOX/RS to have the Book hint at a different outcome to the movie... were FOX/RS thinking ahead, so that maybe the Novel could provide a few clues that contradict David as the Creator.

so they can access how fans would react?

Despite RS comments, it only what we see as Canon in the movies that count, and so it does leave it open to show that David Re-Created the Xenomorph... but i think RS personnel choice would be to RUN with David as the Creator.

It certainly could be that David Re-Created something/Experimented on the Black Goo in the run up to Final Drafts we ended up with for Alien Covenant.

A interesting Question would be at WHAT POINT was it decided that David would be the TRUE Xenomorph Creator?

"Without ANY clues in the film it will be tough to explain that David re-created the xenomorph in the next movie. The story-line is so f-ed. "

Maybe they will go a route similar to how i have a number of times proposed and indeed the route i have for my TWO Alien Covenant Sequels...  Which would eventually show us that David was the Middle Man in order to Perfect what the Engineers had been doing on LV-223,  and that Xenomorph is born from this...  The returning Engineer Hierarchy witness Davids Xenomorph and see how this Organism, is more Perfect than the Deacon and they attempt to Engineer themselves to Evolve it.

But i was also going for the route that David meets a Synthetic Female Construct, who he manages to get to see his side, unlike Walter did... thus David has found his companion... but in Hubris and as a Action of the Engineers she is used or plays a part in how the Xenomorph gains its Bio-Mechanical Aesthtic.

But Ultimately a Engineer Hierarchy attempt to take this Creation to LV-223 to Re-engineer and Mass Produce for Revenge... but the Cargo infects the Engineer/Space Jockey.

Either heading to LV-223, or maybe i would go the route that they conduct these evolutionary experiments on LV-223 and set off for Earth but only arrive as far as LV-426.

These are the kind of ideas i am playing with....  I would even consider a Covenant between David and Engineers, but then David has Redemption when he is angered at how the Engineers lead to or use Davids Synthetic Construct Companion to Evolve the Xenomorph and so David SABOTAGES the Derelict.

But this kind of Plot, revolves around the 2nd of Covenants Sequels...

Why is it that when a character in the Alien movies says something it is given more credence than logic and common sense...

In Alien Dallas says the Space Jockey was Fossilized. It was not. Fossilization requires layers of sediment to encase the remains - the space jockey was not found to be and had never been encased in layers of sediment. The Space Jockey was either mummified or petrified. Though understandable (big skeleton = dinosaur display = fossil), Dallas' statement is wrong.

In Alien: Covenant David claims he created the Xenomorph. He did not. Though clearly a more primitive form, the Deacon is a variant form of the Xenomorph - Shaw's womb was the Egg, the Trilobite was the Facehugger and the Deacon was the Xenomorph Burster. With the Deacon clearly on display in the mural on LV-223, its existence dates back at least 2,000 years prior to Davids tinkerings on Planet 4. David made the Xenomorph, he did not create it; much in the same way, as I can bake a Victoria Sponge, but that doesn't credit me as its creator.

Gavin

However, for the murals to represent the Deacon, there is a chain of lucky events that must go on : A male to get infected, a womb to be impregnated with infected semen, a trilobite to get out, for it to find a host and finally the Deacon is born.

And why did David need the dna of that wasp which lays eggs in other living things to make is variant if the original creature is parasitic in nature? And how does the neomorph fit into the picture with it's simple life cycle and without the need for an egg carrier?

It would be so nice if some interviewer could just as RS for some clarification already...

ignorantGuy

My personal theory about the Deacon lifecycle is that it was actually the reason for humanity to be created. 

In my mind humanity on earth might actually have been created for the purpose of "farming".
Perhaps the engineers just created and cultivated all the races of humanity to have genetically similar but different creatures in order to experiment on them later on. 

It makes all of it pretty dark and disturbing. 

As for David and his "creations", I think most of it was chance really. The black accelerant just interacting with other organisms. Prometheus basically showed us, that this black goo "interacts" with any non floral lifeform. It significantly mutates everything alive it touches basically. 

The hammerpedes are an excellent example of this, as these creatures just emerged when the accelerant came into contact with worms.

"It would be so nice if some interviewer could just as RS for some clarification already..."

Ridley Scott had kind of covered it in context to where we are now, he had prior to Alien Covenant, so after Prometheus he mentions "[These] are dreadful weapons way beyond anything we could possibly conceive, bacteriological drums of shit that you can drop on a planet"   

He has mentioned in other interviews about the stuff being a mutagen that evolves life, and so what we have is that THIS substance is a Pathogenic Mutagen, that appears to evolve Organic Matter to take on DNA traits that are shared by the Deacon and Xenomorph.

Ridley Scott has said that DAVID created it, referring to the Xenomorph and as GAVIN pointed out what David has actually done is experiment and cross hybrid various organisms with the Black Goo Mutagen, until he has arrived at the Xenomorph.

David has basically just taken like a number of different Dog Breeds and Cross Breed them to then make a NEW Dog...  But thats all he has done....  the Original DOG Genetics arrived from a WOLF type animal.    And so the Black Goo in effect is either the WOLF of came from the WOLF

I will say it appears that the earlier Xenomorph related Organisms, have been around but they appear to be running with the Xenomorph that David has created via utilizing the Black Goo, is the Precursor to the 1979 Xenomorph

The Deacon is a interesting Organism, that still holds some Mystery, indeed the events required to create the Deacon in Prometheus at the end of the movie, is something that requires a number of certain things.

We Do-Not However have a 100% Clear Explanation to this.

It either a result of.

*Black Goo Infected Sperm, Infects/Fertilizes a Female Egg Cell

*Black Goo Containing Nano Parasites Infects/Fertilizes a Female Egg Cell

*Black Goo Containing Nano Parasites enter the Womb of a Female Host and the Womb reacts to it just as if it was a Zygote

**Black Goo Containing Nano Parasites can just grow inside of a Host.

The last method linking it to how the Neomorph Motes worked,  and only the FIRST method requires a Male/Sex the 2nd/3rd could be transmitted to a female via intercourse with a infected Male.

We cant be sure (and it depends which of the above is closer to the Deacon Creation) if this series of events was required in the past to create the Organism in the Deacon Mural.

Thus we cant be sure if the Deacon Mural is exactly the same kind of Deacon, it could be related but then its how close is this relation, like Dr Shaws Deacon to a Neomorph, a Neomorph to a Xenomorph etc.

The Deacon Mural has to be...

*A Prophecy of something to come (unlikely)

*Something the Engineers were trying to create.

*Something they Created/Engineered from the Black Goo.

*Something they Created/Engineered that they then created the Black Goo from.

*Something they had encountered that lead to a Ancestor/Similar Organism, that the Engineers then Re-Engineered.

I will say ALIEN: COVENANT kind of tries to indicate the Black Goo is actually just one kind of Mutagen, that can be programed to infect Organic life in a Variety of ways.  So its Origin is NOT from some kind of Xenomorph Ancestral Organism.  And the Black Goo in those Urns are maybe Programmed to infect DNA the way it did.

"And why did David need the dna of that wasp which lays eggs in other living things to make is variant if the original creature is parasitic in nature"

The safest bet is that the Black Goo basically acts like a Virus, in that it hijacks Organisms methods of Procreation to Procreate a Hybrid form of itself.

"My personal theory about the Deacon lifecycle is that it was actually the reason for humanity to be created."

This Certainly is ONE theory, but its one i find Holes with, especially given the Ancient Astronaut Theory kind of way Prometheus showed how our Engineer interacted with us, and looking at how the Sacrificial Scene was Portrayed... this appeared to be a EVENT that showed us how these Engineers either Kick-Start Organic Life on a World by Providing the Building Blocks... or (and more likely) the event that acted as a CATALYST to Evolve Basic Life into Complex Life.

This is a very very long Process.... now Spaights Alien: Engineers was more simplistic because it showed the Engineer Sacririce, would evolve Primates to Early Humans... a TASK that would take FAR less than what Prometheus showed us.  Thus would fit better with a Theory about us being Created to be Farmed...

HOWEVER.... we Do-Not know if the Sacrificial Scene happened on Earth,  and RS had said this is how they Seed Worlds so it happens on other worlds, but we have yet to have a SPOON FED reason on FILM.

Thus the Sacrificial Scene could still be a way those Ancient Engineers Seeded Worlds to Resurrect their Race, and the Results are the Planet 4 Engineers.   Which means at some point in Future from these beings they could create Humans in a more Direct Shorter creation path/route, rather than the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus.

BUT CERTAINLY a reveal that we are created for the Purpose of Procreating a Xenomorph Related Parasite is Sinister, its what HR Gigers Concepts seem to learn towards...

One Running Theory i had that i was tempted to adopt for my Prometheus 2/3 (which i had a number of theories/ways to explain it all) But one of them was to ADOPT the Annunaki Tale via throwing in HR Gigers Concepts....

This idea i had many years ago... after Prometheus.

Thus the Engineers were a Race that was created to Procreate Something similar to the Xenomorph,  The Engineers are THUS the Igigi only they was not created to MINE GOLD the Purpose was something Sinister related to the Black Goo/Xenomorph. 

These Engineers/Igigi rebelled against this Sacrificial Purpose, and one of TWO things happened (could not think which is best).

The Creators of the Engineers, Sacrifice a Engineer to Create Mankind so that Mankind Replaces the Engineers to be used for their Sinister Procreative Rituals (pretty much how the Annunaki Created Mankind).

Or the Engineers Create Mankind to replace them for the same purpose.

@Charza

Indeed Prometheus made this substance kind of simple to follow, that would have been more easier to understand had parts of the Drafts made it into the movie and some alternative concepts (Fifeld)   I had a theory on the Black Goo/Sacrificial Goo that i had mentioned on here shortly after Prometheus, that MONTHS latter when Jon Spaights Alien: Engineers was leaked, his Nano-Scarabs basically showed how i interpreted the Black Goo.

I always said to anyone finding it hard to understand the Black Goo to go and Read Alien: Engineers and just replace Nano-Scarabs with Nano-Pathogenic Parasites.

But FOX released a Viral Weyland File to Explain the Black Goo in ways that did not add up to what we saw in the movie.... we see Alien Covenant with the Advent Viral attempt to Explain this would be MacGuffin further but again in a way thats not quite simple and a bit contradicting.

When working on Alien Covenant they should have STUCK to what Prometheus showed, and if they needed a Explanation... then Alien: Engineers provided it.

Which was at its Inception. ... the Sacrificial Substance was a Genetic Tool for Splicing DNA.    The Urn substance the result of a Organism Sacrificed by the Sacrificial Substance so that its DNA is stored in the Urns to be used to Splice it with Organic Matter.

THIS^^^ is how i interpreted Prometheus, its how Spaights version of the Goo worked and its Dead Simple, and Fits Perfectly with the context of the Engineers being Genetic Gardeners.

"And why did David need the dna of that wasp which lays eggs in other living things to make is variant if the original creature is parasitic in nature"

Since when, in the Alien: Covenant movie or novel, does David say he used a "wasp" to make the Xenomorph "parasitic"? You simply have not watched the movie properly or read any of the original script. Those "wasps" we see, under David's microscope are actually micro insects which come from those fungal pods or "eggs" as David calls them. They are the parasitic stage of the NEOMORPH. Those groups of "spores" we see going in people's ears to cause infection, are groups of these tiny tiny insects. They burrow their way into the skin and cause the host to birth a Neomorph. The Covenant script and the novel make this very clear, as well as certain artwork from David's lab. The fungal spores = those tiny wasp things. Nothing to so with the Xenomorph.

See here for more info on this -> https://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/46223

@ Yog Sothoth,

I think we can all agree that the planet 4 wasp you mentioned was either a reference or inspired by the parasitoid wasp that inspired the Xenomorph back when Dan O'Bannon was penning the script on Ronald Shussett's sofa.

However, there is a slight issue with advents expansion of Alien: Covenants addition to the Alien mythology. The two known forms of propagation, which are egg-laying and egg-morphing, result in the production of a singular parasitic egg delivery system - the Facehugger, which implants a single (multiple according to Alien 3's theatrical cut) Xenomorph embryo into a hosts throat. The Spore-Sacs, as you mentioned eject a swarm of minute parasitic insects that burrow into a single host, rather than one host per insect, which would be much more efficient. Also, it would seem that this swarm gathers into a singular organism, Voltron style within the host before bursting, which needless to say has a barrage of problems such as efficiency, established canon and most importantly, how can a swarm of presumably already mature creatures transform into a singular larval organism?

David made the Xenomorph, he did not create it; much in the same way, as I can bake a Victoria Sponge, but that doesn't credit me as its creator.

Gavin well said and tasty :P

on the topic of what can be considered canon. I don't think anything has actually been spelt out in enough detail yet for anything to be considered canon yet and by the looks of things, there will be some lengthy debates about what is and what isn't long after the prequels are done. as for the other material such as ADF's novel, I don't consider it in any way canon as it differs to much from the movie and im talking on screen and not extras in the blu ray. im actually amazed Fox allowed it to be released

I have seen that sentence before but I agree that it would be better if they did so David did not create the first Xeno. Unfortunately they might follow the extremely disappointing idea that Daviod created the first one though, but that would not surprise me. With all the disappointing things in the prequels it would not surprise me if they stick to that, *sigh*.

S.M: Yeah I remember that interview, it is interesting to listen to.

@Gavin

Just found my way back here after many months, and I still think there is a giant hole with these "motes."  Like you said, with them being singular and mature lifeforms themselves, and being a result of the black goo and not the black goo, themselves, them entering a host like that doesn't make sense with what results from them (a single neomorph).  There is no way they logically - even by the serie's logic - enter a host and then somehow breakdown and recombined to create a single creature.  They also aren't injecting black goo into the host. 

By the movie's own logic they are a delivery system for an egg or embryo for the next stage of development of the creature. The entire logic in the Alien universe of the black goo (in small(er) amounts) is not that it creates/morphs into mature life on its sake, and in fact in it's most prolific forms destroys life.  But that it infects existing life/sexual reproduction to create/reproduce a hyper-aggressive mutant variation which acts as a weapon.

So I don't really get the biological logic of the motes as "wasps" in AC once they leave their hive by literally burrowing into a hosts and hitting their blood stream.  The only thing I can come up with since it's not unknown for parasites to kill themselves to reproduce is that they burrow into the host releasing their egg/embryo before they are overcome by being stuck in a hosts body, but then that raises questions as to what happens to the hundreds or thousands of other eggs.embryos even accounting for the possibility that many of the "motes" perish before being able to inject their embryo in the host.  Maybe the strongest resulting embryo cannibalizes the other eggs/resulting embryos within the hosts?

It's literally a small detail, but a very important one that the movie kind of skips over.

This is Ridley Scott verbatim on monsterlegacy.net:

https://monsterlegacy.net/2018/02/04/starbeast-alien-covenant/

"The Engineers didn’t make him [the Alien], David made him; which I thought was far more interesting.” He also added: “he designed this motherfucker — rather than it came from the Engineers it came from him."

Anything else, is just your wishful thinking and own fantasy because of your disappointment. You can't believe the Alien franchise universe was such a small universe to begin with. I know you really don't want to believe it but that is the reality.

That mysterious Xenomorph was made by an angry robot from Earth.

Done. There's not much point in watching any more of these movies.

Codexas: You can always throw the prequels away and pretend that they did not happen if they will end up crappy. Hopefully they will force Ridley to correct the most dumb idea namely that David created the Xeno so that will no longer be the case.

The Motes are just a sign of a those working on the story not having a great idea, not by one that they fully thought out...   Alien Covenant does not really explain the Motes well enough, not as far as what we see in the Movie.

The Spores do appear to be tiny particles/organisms that enter the Host, were we can only assume  they are somehow attracted to each other in a way that most of them merge and combine and this begins the development of the Neomorph.

When we see Davids Notes, and the concept works then indeed it appears this tiny insect like Organisms, are basically doing similar to what Spaights Nano-Scarabs are...  only its implied this Nano-Mote Insects are injecting something into the Host that Ultimately develops into the Neomorph.

This is kind of Flawed in some Logical..... unless there is some kind of interaction between what ever these Motes inject so what ever is injected either joins up with the others.... or some signal or pheromone is sent once one starts to Develop into a Neomorph so that the other Motes do-not develop more Neomorphs.

Otherwise we have to then Question why does a Host not Produce Multiple Neomorphs.

Regarding DAVID my replies to these TWO Topics cover my interpretation of this direction. 

http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/47508&page=2

http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/47518

I think some dont get what RS was intending with David as far as Prometheus and Alien Covenant and so some interpret that we have just a MAD ROBOT but in reality RS was trying to show us that David is MORE than a Robot....  Walter is a Robot... David had become a Sentient Intelligent Creation.... be that Synthetic and not Organic, bigger themes of Creation/Rebellion are at play and asking Questions about what constitutes Creation, After-Life and a Soul 

There is hope that they can introduce something else into the Picture...  

David Created this Xenomorph from the Engineers Black Goo... No Black Goo or Engineers and there would be NO Xenomorph... But also NO David and there is NO Xenomorph.

I think they need to introduce the Engineers or another Race above/below them, that has a Facination with the Xenomorph of Davids just like they did with the Deacon Mural in Prometheus... they See DAVIDS work as True POTENTIAL  but not PERFECTION and so this Race then takes Davids Xenomorph and EVOLVES it.

Delving into the Reason for the Mural in Prometheus, by showing us why these beings want to Evolve Davids Creation.

"Delving into the Reason for the Mural in Prometheus, by showing us why these beings want to Evolve Davids Creation."

I would like David's version to be another kind of monster but not the one that we see in the movie from 1979, that could save the prequels.

To a degree i would agree... certainly a lot of people are not pleased that David Created it.... it makes it less Alien and Unique...

However we have to remember the PREQUELS where never really intended to Answer the Xenomorph,  not purely as it being about only this Organism....  it opened up a whole level above the Xenomorph which was just a Bio-Logical Experiment created from something Else and combined with the Engineers Nano-Creation/Hybrid Mutagen/Technology.

This holds TRUE for Alien Engineers and Prometheus, and Prometheus decided to tone down the Xenomorph and Explore the Creation and Rebellion and Philosophical Elements.

At this Present JUNCTURE they could indeed show us that David had NOT created the Original...  If they did this, then it may save FACE for some fans regarding the Original... but it could make a Mockery of Davids Xenomorph and well the whole Process of the Prequels which DAVID is a large part of.

I see TWO ideal options..

1) Show that David has just Re-Created his own Xenomorph... but then we need to have him EVOLVE this Xenomorph to give us something of bit more of a threat, something different.  Maybe Introduce the aspects that Ridley Scott had intended in ALIEN which is to make this BEAST Far more Intelligent than what we got to see in ALIEN and on-ward's...   The Classic Xenomorph could be seen as a Perfect Killing Machine.   But then show that Davids version actually gets evolved to be more than a Killing Machine, and thus showing that Davids Creation is actually much more than the Hierarchy of Creation above his was...  So even if we start with the Engineers at the Top, these Mortals Created Mankind and the Xenomorph,  then Mortal Mankind Creates the Synthetics like David and then its David who actually creates something much greater than the Engineers.

This leaves the Classic Xenomorph as Ancient, but then we have to ask WHY would Weyland Persue the Classic rather than Davids? For this we have to show the Company take a Great Interest  in Davids Creation but in the END, we have to CLOSE THE DOOR on Davids Creation and LV-223 so that the company then discovers their is a source of a more Ancient Version thats Primitive that the Company could RE-ENGINEER to try and Replicate what David did, and REVEAL this as Special Order 937

2) Introduce the Engineers or those above them into the MIX and have them Pursue/EVOLVE Davids Creation to become the Classic Xenomorph.   A Big Question we should be asking is WHY does the Black Goo Evolve LIFE into something related to the Xenomorph, and WHY were those Murals and Frescos for?

some element within the Engineer Society and Hierarchy had been conducting experiments to Create/Evolve something that certainly is connected to the XENOMORPH and Held this in VERY high Regard. 

We need to show WHO/WHY had just a High Regard for the Mural, and then show us that these guys see Davids Xenomorph as a more Perfect Creation than what they was attempting... but then they see Davids Creation still needs some work.

Then its introducing a set of events from this that leads to the Classic Xenomorph and Derelict.

I CANT GUESS what route RS and those working with him have in mind... i just hope its something with Good imagination, that makes Davids Work on the Xenomorph... lesser than the route taken, but also does not dis-credit his work or the THEMES of Prometheus.

And i would CHALLENGE them to provide a more interesting route than the TWO i have outlined above ;)